Standing Areas

[Hannah_hfc]

http://m.stv.tv/sport/football/clubs/aberdeen/311451-is-safe-standing-coming-soon-premiership-clubs-state-their-position/

Hope this link works! Probably been discussed and debated to death but it's interesting that clubs were given the green light back in 2011 and no-one has been able to successfully implement it. Really hope it's something that starts to happen over the next couple of years, the atmosphere at most fixtures in the top flight needs a boost.

Does anyone know Hibs' position on a standing area?

[DaveF]

I should hope there is standing coming soon.

Hibs turn a blind eye to the singing lot down the front, and the English footballing authorities do zilch when the Liverpool fans stand at every match. Plus every large away crowd stands without any punishment for the club.

Yet, I get some over zealous steward threatening to chuck me out when I stood at the back row of the upper stand at tannadice a few years ago. You couldn't make it up :greengrin

[NAE NOOKIE]

Nobody appears to be opposed to it anyway which is good. Had my say on it many times ...... Bottom deck FF.

[Hermit Crab]

http://m.stv.tv/sport/football/clubs/aberdeen/311451-is-safe-standing-coming-soon-premiership-clubs-state-their-position/

Hope this link works! Probably been discussed and debated to death but it's interesting that clubs were given the green light back in 2011 and no-one has been able to successfully implement it. Really hope it's something that starts to happen over the next couple of years, the atmosphere at most fixtures in the top flight needs a boost.

Does anyone know Hibs' position on a standing area?

Absolutely brilliant news. I've wanted standing areas installed at grounds for years now. I hope hibs wish to participate in this.

[Hannah_hfc]

Absolutely brilliant news. I've wanted standing areas installed at grounds for years now. I hope hibs wish to participate in this.
I hope so too! I don't remember this news back in 2011, was it made public at the time?

Seems to be a large majority of fans want it so it would make sense for clubs to look into this more.

[Hermit Crab]

I hope so too! I don't remember this news back in 2011, was it made public at the time?

Seems to be a large majority of fans want it so it would make sense for clubs to look into this more.

I was unaware of this "green light" to safe standing rule. The FFL has to be a contender for rail seats to be installed.

[Andy74]

http://m.stv.tv/sport/football/clubs/aberdeen/311451-is-safe-standing-coming-soon-premiership-clubs-state-their-position/

Hope this link works! Probably been discussed and debated to death but it's interesting that clubs were given the green light back in 2011 and no-one has been able to successfully implement it. Really hope it's something that starts to happen over the next couple of years, the atmosphere at most fixtures in the top flight needs a boost.

Does anyone know Hibs' position on a standing area?

Expensive to retro fit. Would there be any pay back for doing so?

[Ringothedog]

I would be absolutely raging if Hibs spent money on this rather than investing in the team. The only time I would be okay with this would be if the funding came from central government and cost hibs nothing.

[Hermit Crab]

I would be absolutely raging if Hibs spent money on this rather than investing in the team. The only time I would be okay with this would be if the funding came from central government and cost hibs nothing.

Depends how much it would cost. It would see an increase in crowds I'm sure of that.

[Ringothedog]

It would not see an increase in crowds. I do not know one person who does not go to the football because there is no standing.

Anything that takes money from the playing budget is a no goer for me.

[.Sean.]

As much as I love the idea of having a season ticket in a standing section in the FFL I also love acting all bammy in 43 during the big games. Tough one :greengrin

[Andy74]

Depends how much it would cost. It would see an increase in crowds I'm sure of that.

Add it to the list. We'd need to build a bigger stadium if we ticked off all the excuses and everyone came back!

[green&left]

Ring fence 10% of the share issue for it 8-)

[CockneyRebel]

I was unaware of this "green light" to safe standing rule. The FFL has to be a contender for rail seats to be installed.

If I remember rightly the "green light" was only for trialling standing sections, it was never a suggestion that stadia would go back to all or mostly standing. The standing enclosure we had at the bottom front of the old West stand would seem the type to be trialled. From what I read at the time there is no chance of the return of huge terraces for standing supporters.

[jacomo]

Seemed crazy to me that easy conversion to standing areas wasn't in the spec for the new East Stand. It was a live issue at the time.

Mind you, that would have required innovation and vision, which weren't in high supply at Hibs then.

FFL would be the logical place for me now, a nice noisy section behind the goals, no more than £15 a ticket. I think it would do wonders for the atmosphere at ER.

[CockneyRebel]

It would not see an increase in crowds. I do not know one person who does not go to the football because there is no standing.

Anything that takes money from the playing budget is a no goer for me.

There are many supporters who dislike the atmosphere (or lack of) in the all seated ER. In fact I know a few who, because of this, have changed from being STs and who now just choose the odd game and PATG. There is no chance of a return to standing in great numbers just the odd token standing enclosure. We are where we are and must make the best of it.

[Andy74]

Seemed crazy to me that easy conversion to standing areas wasn't in the spec for the new East Stand. It was a live issue at the time.

Mind you, that would have required innovation and vision, which weren't in high supply at Hibs then.

FFL would be the logical place for me now, a nice noisy section behind the goals, no more than £15 a ticket. I think it would do wonders for the atmosphere at ER.

It would have required additional cost which is the problem.

[Ringothedog]

Seemed crazy to me that easy conversion to standing areas wasn't in the spec for the new East Stand. It was a live issue at the time.

Mind you, that would have required innovation and vision, which weren't in high supply at Hibs then.

FFL would be the logical place for me now, a nice noisy section behind the goals, no more than £15 a ticket. I think it would do wonders for the atmosphere at ER.

So what you are saying is spend money to put safe standing into a part of the ground that holds 1800 people and then charge £7 per person less with no guarantee of an increase in crowds.Madness!

[sleeping giant]

All my pals are in their 40's and quite like a seat now :greengrin

No way would this increase crowds on its own .

[Waxy]

An all standing lower FF would make a huge difference to the atmosphere at ER.It's probably the smallest section in the ground too and it's rarely full as a seated area.

[Ringothedog]

An all standing lower FF would make a huge difference to the atmosphere at ER.It's probably the smallest section in the ground too and it's rarely full as a seated area.

I am not averse to this being done but it is the cost that puts me off. Safe standing or Scott Allan on a new contract. No competition for me.It is not a priority and until we are making millions in profit each season never should be. Nothing wrong with discussing it though.

ps I would have it in sections 43 & 44

[Hibbyradge]

I wouldn't have thought the cost of putting rail seats in the FF lower would be prohibitive.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-26149790

[cabbageandribs1875]

I am not averse to this being done but it is the cost that puts me off. Safe standing or Scott Allan on a new contract. No competition for me.It is not a priority and until we are making millions in profit each season never should be. Nothing wrong with discussing it though.

ps I would have it in sections 43 & 44


i don't think any section in the East will ever be standing only, it's far too steep as it is just with with seats, imo of course

[Ringothedog]

I wouldn't have thought the cost of putting rail seats in the FF lower would be prohibitive.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-26149790

Dave, anything above 1p is prohibitive for us.

[Andy74]

I wouldn't have thought the cost of putting rail seats in the FF lower would be prohibitive.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-26149790

Don't you have to alter step heights and so on? It's not just swapping seats. Those things aren't really the same as old terraces anyway. Those days are just gone.

[green&left]

Don't you have to alter step heights and so on? It's not just swapping seats. Those things aren't really the same as old terraces anyway. Those days are just gone.

Why would anything need to be altered? All you'd be doing is replacing current seats with the rail seats.

Don't see why it would even need the rail seats to be honest. Nothing unsafe about standing in front of your seat if they seat a side a proper end for it (FF Lower for example)

[mca]

Standing V Sitting

Who's the winner.. :wink:

[jacomo]

So what you are saying is spend money to put safe standing into a part of the ground that holds 1800 people and then charge £7 per person less with no guarantee of an increase in crowds.Madness!

No it's not. Your numbers only hold true if you are talking about a sold out stadium.

A proportion of supporters have clearly expressed a preference to stand at matches. By giving people that choice, you would be likely to attract more crowds.

As it happens, I quite a seat at the football, but fully support safe standing areas for those who wish to do so. I imagine that if this happened at ER, a number of fans would choose to stand where they used to sit, and a number would choose to move to a seat elsewhere.

[jacomo]

It would have required additional cost which is the problem.

The bigger problem is that revenues from ticket sales at ER are not as high as they could be. I think standing areas would help that.

[jacomo]

I wouldn't have thought the cost of putting rail seats in the FF lower would be prohibitive.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-26149790

Yup, they look the business.

[Cameron1875]

Famous Five Lower would look brilliant with safe standing :agree:

[portycabbage]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/25136422

Was wondering if the rails would block your view a bit when seated, but looks not bad in the video in this article. Would be great if the East could have all rail seats one day, given it's been done elsewhere successfully.

I think you get double the rows if you have the seats up, although I may be wrong. Like the idea of 12000 standing in the east for big games, provided we were attracting big crowds and the east didn't buckle under the extra weight!

[NAE NOOKIE]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/25136422

Was wondering if the rails would block your view a bit when seated, but looks not bad in the video in this article. Would be great if the East could have all rail seats one day, given it's been done elsewhere successfully.

I think you get double the rows if you have the seats up, although I may be wrong. Like the idea of 12000 standing in the east for big games, provided we were attracting big crowds and the east didn't buckle under the extra weight!

Never gonna happen mate, the East is too steep ... FF is perfect, 2,000 standing will be just right.

[Hermit Crab]

Never gonna happen mate, the East is too steep ... FF is perfect, 2,000 standing will be just right.


My god, me and you agree on something. This is a perfect oportunity for hibs to push forward and be one of the first clubs to do this. I do think it would attract a small number of fans back to support the club. The board, I'm hoping will seriously consider this as an option for the future.

[portycabbage]

Never gonna happen mate, the East is too steep ... FF is perfect, 2,000 standing will be just right.

Some of the terraces in Germany look pretty steep too though, and having rails would (I imagine) make it harder to fall over than it is now (with the backs of the seats in front being about shin height!). Anyway, I can dream!:wink:

Not sure if posted further up-
http://www.fsf.org.uk/campaigns/safe-standing/safe-standing-facts/

[NAE NOOKIE]

My god, me and you agree on something. This is a perfect oportunity for hibs to push forward and be one of the first clubs to do this. I do think it would attract a small number of fans back to support the club. The board, I'm hoping will seriously consider this as an option for the future.

:faf: ...................... Its not really lack of agreement HC I'm just no as miserable as you :greengrin

[Hermit Crab]

:faf: ...................... Its not really lack of agreement HC I'm just no as miserable as you :greengrin


With hibs nearly everything is misery. :greengrin

[Kaff]

My god, me and you agree on something. This is a perfect oportunity for hibs to push forward and be one of the first clubs to do this. I do think it would attract a small number of fans back to support the club. The board, I'm hoping will seriously consider this as an option for the future.

I think you would appeal to the teenage 'support' who would go along for a look and if there was a lot of bouncing etc would catch the bug and become regulars? This wouldnt necessarily attract back a lapsed middle aged fan immediately but if there was a good atmosphere within the ground, coupled with the improved team, then they too might be tempted to be regulars again.
We shouldnt miss out on this imo.

[Hermit Crab]

I think you would appeal to the teenage 'support' who would go along for a look and if there was a lot of bouncing etc would catch the bug and become regulars? This wouldnt necessarily attract back a lapsed middle aged fan immediately but if there was a good atmosphere within the ground, coupled with the improved team, then they too might be tempted to be regulars again.
We shouldnt miss out on this imo.

:agree: We, the fans and the club should not dismiss it without at least a study/fans survey done by the club before deciding. I for am all for it. Would love to hear what LD has to say on this.

[SunshineOnLeith]

I'd like standing areas to come back but the argument that it would increase crowds by itself holds no water. Who are these people not going to games at the moment, solely because they'd prefer to stand than sit? And why aren't they just standing up the back of the East at the moment?

[Andy74]

Why would anything need to be altered? All you'd be doing is replacing current seats with the rail seats.

Don't see why it would even need the rail seats to be honest. Nothing unsafe about standing in front of your seat if they seat a side a proper end for it (FF Lower for example)

I recall it being mentioned. It's not as easy as that. The system requires certain adaptions not just replacing seats. Open terrace or standing in front of seats woukd also not qualify.

[Hibby Bairn]

I think you would appeal to the teenage 'support' who would go along for a look and if there was a lot of bouncing etc would catch the bug and become regulars? This wouldnt necessarily attract back a lapsed middle aged fan immediately but if there was a good atmosphere within the ground, coupled with the improved team, then they too might be tempted to be regulars again.
We shouldnt miss out on this imo.

I went to the Berwick v Spartans game and actually opted to walk round to the shed covered terracing rather than sit in the stand.

Banter was excellent....lots more singing....one liners...people moving about (without upsetting others!)...atmosphere so much better...was able to chat to some folk I spotted without climbing over seats or standing on stairways. Much more "social".

And I am 47 :agree:

[green&left]

I recall it being mentioned. It's not as easy as that. The system requires certain adaptions not just replacing seats. Open terrace or standing in front of seats woukd also not qualify.

I'll put my neck on the line and say you're wrong.

Bristol City done it recently with a block of 30 seats. They took their plastic ones out and a company installed the rail seats. No other adaptions were made.

If you were increasing capacity then yes changes would need to be made, enough fire exits etc etc. Likewise if you wanted to go for the old style terracing changes would need to be made to the staircases, gradient of the stand and what not. Railseats would not need any changes.

Edit:

Video of the Bristol City safe standing installation (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysrFyqctDic)
Video 2 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XIoHJAVDf7w)

Gallery from manufacture (http://www.fercoseating.co.uk/railseat-projects/railseat-bristol-city-fc.html)

Railseat images and information from manufacture (http://www.fercoseating.co.uk/rail-seat/RailSeat.html)

[blackpoolhibs]

I'll put my neck on the line and say you're wrong.

Bristol City done it recently with a block of 30 seats. They took their plastic ones out and a company installed the rail seats. No other adaptions were made.

If you were increasing capacity then yes changes would need to be made, enough fire exits etc etc. Likewise if you wanted to go for the old style terracing changes would need to be made to the staircases, gradient of the stand and what not. Railseats would not need any changes.

Edit:

Video of the Bristol City safe standing installation (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysrFyqctDic)
Video 2 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XIoHJAVDf7w)

Gallery from manufacture (http://www.fercoseating.co.uk/railseat-projects/railseat-bristol-city-fc.html)


Railseat images and information from manufacture (http://www.fercoseating.co.uk/rail-seat/RailSeat.html)

We are all missing the point here, there's no need to spend a penny on updating the FF should the singing section relocate to there. They all stand now in the east and do it with none of those safe standing seats.

Just relocate there, get the atmosphere started from behind the goal and watch it take off.

[green&left]

We are all missing the point here, there's no need to spend a penny on updating the FF should the singing section relocate to there. They all stand now in the east and do it with none of those safe standing seats.

Just relocate there, get the atmosphere started from behind the goal and watch it take off.

Exactly what I said last night....

Was at Hertha Berlin last month and they have about 12k stood behind the goal in front of their seats...

[Andy74]

I'll put my neck on the line and say you're wrong.

Bristol City done it recently with a block of 30 seats. They took their plastic ones out and a company installed the rail seats. No other adaptions were made.

If you were increasing capacity then yes changes would need to be made, enough fire exits etc etc. Likewise if you wanted to go for the old style terracing changes would need to be made to the staircases, gradient of the stand and what not. Railseats would not need any changes.

Edit:

Video of the Bristol City safe standing installation (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysrFyqctDic)
Video 2 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XIoHJAVDf7w)

Gallery from manufacture (http://www.fercoseating.co.uk/railseat-projects/railseat-bristol-city-fc.html)

Railseat images and information from manufacture (http://www.fercoseating.co.uk/rail-seat/RailSeat.html)

It depends how the stand is built currently. I'm sure Hibs indicated we couldn't just swap without some change to the construction.

[Waxy]

Have the club ever made any kind of statement regarding this?

[Hermit Crab]

Have the club ever made any kind of statement regarding this?


I think in the past the club have said they would look into it but can't remember if I imagined it or not. I'm pretty sure LD wouldn't completely ignore this given that it's another oportunity to get even more lapsed fans back on board with the potential for more change at the club.

[Keith_M]

I would love to see some proper, safe terracing re-introduced at ER because, as others have said, it seems to help the atmosphere.

However, if it's going to cost money, then it's just not gonna happen. Rail Seats are really expensive, so there's no way Hibs could justify it.


TBH, considering the amount of games we actually play in Europe (one home game every three years, or so), we don't really need areas that convert between Seats and Terrace. We just need Terraced areas and accept that we're going to miss out on using that section of the ground for those games. Hardly a great loss.

[green&left]

I would love to see some proper, safe terracing re-introduced at ER because, as others have said, it seems to help the atmosphere.

However, if it's going to cost money, then it's just not gonna happen. Rail Seats are really expensive, so there's no way Hibs could justify it.


TBH, considering the amount of games we actually play in Europe (one home game every three years, or so), we don't really need areas that convert between Seats and Terrace. We just need Terraced areas and accept that we're going to miss out on using that section of the ground for those games. Hardly a great loss.


The Germans are have been lobbying Uefa for a change on the rules, think it was Dortmund, Bayern & Schalke because they lose capacity of around 16,000, 5000 and 7000 respectively when they need to convert back to seating for Uefa matches.

[NAE NOOKIE]

The Germans are have been lobbying Uefa for a change on the rules, think it was Dortmund, Bayern & Schalke because they lose capacity of around 16,000, 5000 and 7000 respectively when they need to convert back to seating for Uefa matches.

That's interesting. I really cant see the need for rail seats, the Germans have had standing at domestic matches for ages with no problem, proof if it were needed that standing is perfectly safe. The two examples we get thrown at us are Hillsborough and Heysel, but in both cases it wasn't the fact that fans were standing that was the real problem. At Hillsborough ( irrespective of what happened outside ) it was the fences that were the major factor and at Heysel it was putting rival fans on the same terrace.

Like the clubs mentioned I cant see the problem with permanent standing areas for domestic and European games. The trouble is UEFA take ages to do anything so we could have a while to wait if Dortmund et al are to get their way.

[Scouse Hibee]

Not really interested in standing or in seeing a return to it at stadiums.

[southsider]

In order to see the game, I had to stand for the whole The rangers v Hibs game at Ipox. And I loved it. Took me back to the good days.

[.Sean.]

How much does it cost to convert a seat to a rail seat? I'm sure others would be of the same mindset but say Hibs could get 2000 names for the FFL and get a price for conversion would those interested in moving be willing to pay the cost themselves? I'd happily pay an extra 50/100 quid on top of my season ticketif that was ever the case.

[.Sean.]

Not really interested in standing or in seeing a return to it at stadiums.
Well that'll be that then, case dismissed. :greengrin

[Hermit Crab]

How much does it cost to convert a seat to a rail seat? I'm sure others would be of the same mindset but say Hibs could get 2000 names for the FFL and get a price for conversion would those interested in moving be willing to pay the cost themselves? I'd happily pay an extra 50/100 quid on top of my season ticketif that was ever the case.

Put my name down as well.

[Hermit Crab]

Bump.