No Punishment for Rangers

[The_Sauz]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/31602715

Well Well Well...what a shock:rolleyes:


Rangers will escape punishment for fans' sectarian chants, the Scottish Professional Football League's chief executive Neil Doncaster has hinted.

Doncaster said that if clubs can prove they did everything possible to prevent such singing, no action will be taken.

What a load of poo

[bingo70]

Hunbelievable

[IanM]

haha.. amazing - using the 'minority' chat again Doncaster

You're a *****bag, always have been and always will.

Time to step down and get someone with a pair a baws in to take charge of this.

time to start a campaign

[matty_f]

Hunbelievable

It would be if it was the first time that it happened, as it is we know that they can sing what they want without fear of punishment because time and time again they get away with it. There is no deterrent from the authorities, the police don't do a thing about it, so what's going to make them stop?

[Gatecrasher]

Doncaster said that if clubs can prove they did everything possible to prevent such singing, no action will be taken.

a weak excuse, if this was racism and not sectarian chanting I wonder if his response would be the same.

[The_Exile]

This the same club that released an orange away top aye? Cos that's doing "everything possible to prevent" eh?

Oh no wait, it's no the same club is it? :greengrin

[Dinkydoo]

Doncaster said that if clubs can prove they did everything possible to prevent such singing, no action will be taken.

I'd be interested in seeing what The Rangers' evidence is that satisfies this condition - surely they'll have removed offending fans from the ground :rolleyes:

[Greenblood70]

brush...carpet..under...I don't know why we expect anything else from Doncaster et all - they are clearly hopeless.

[--------]

Hunbelievable

No - only what was to be expected.

No one is prepared to address sectarianism in Scottish football and society, not the government, not the police, not the football authorities.

A while back Celtic were quoted as expressing concern at the continued absence of The Rangers from the Premiership. They were losing money they said, which was compromising their chances in Europe.

That was them telling Doncaster and his cronies to make sure The Rangers got promoted this season and no later.

On Saturday the officials turned down two, possibly three stonewall penalty claims for us. At Ibrox in the 2-0 game The Rangers were given carte blanche to assault our players and nothing was done about it. It's started, and it's going to get worse.

Trust me - nothing bad will be done to The Rangers regardless of what they (or their fans) get up to between now and the end of the play-offs final.

[PatHead]

It would be if it was the first time that it happened, as it is we know that they can sing what they want without fear of punishment because time and time again they get away with it. There is no deterrent from the authorities, the police don't do a thing about it, so what's going to make them stop?

Should be raised at the Scottish Parliament where they could "influence" all the clubs who form the SPFL that sticking their heads in the sand is unacceptable and will not be tolerated. We should all ask candidates at the next election what they would do.

Much as I hate to defend a man whose face needs slapped a million times and don't get me started on that haircut, seemingly Doncaster tried to bring in rules which would enforce punishments but they were only accepted by 2 clubs out of them all. Don't know which 2 clubs. This was on Radio Scotland.

[bingo70]

It would be if it was the first time that it happened, as it is we know that they can sing what they want without fear of punishment because time and time again they get away with it. There is no deterrent from the authorities, the police don't do a thing about it, so what's going to make them stop?

I wonder if UEFA will have anything to say about this? Turning a blind eye to sectarianism surely won't go down well.

[BH Hibs]

a weak excuse, if this was racism and not sectarian chanting I wonder if his response would be the same.

No chance. If the word black was being used instead of Fenian there would be action taken no doubt about it. Don't see what the difference is both contain hatred. Absolute joke.

[Cabbage East]

Doncaster is a reptile.

[WillowbraeHibby]

Doncaster is a reptile.


That's a wee bit hard on reptiles is it not? :greengrin

[Golden Bear]

Another example of why our Holyrood politicians are wasting their time and our money by passing legislation which cannot possibly be policed effectively.

[Aldo]

a weak excuse, if this was racism and not sectarian chanting I wonder if his response would be the same.

It is racist IMHO singing " Colymore is a Black Fenian B!

Calling someone a Black B is racist plain and simple.

If that's not racists then what is.


Doncaster bottled it IMHO.

[--------]

a weak excuse, if this was racism and not sectarian chanting I wonder if his response would be the same.


Isn't it racist? I mean. the folk whose blood they're singing about being up to the knees in belong to a clearly defined and recognisable racial, ethnic background?

[allezsauzee]

Why do the SPFL feel as though they should be ruling the game but abdicate responsibility when it comes to the behavior of (old firm)supporters?

rhetorical question btw....i know its because they are gutless

[The_Sauz]

Just heard that Mr Doncaster as agreed a 10 year SPFL sponsorship deal with a company called Re Agent http://www.reagent.co.uk/services/contract-bottling/bottling-company/?gclid=CKr2robN-sMCFYrLtAodZlMACQ





















:greengrin

[WestEndHibee]

And these are the guys that can't fathom why our league doesn't even have a sponsor. What company in their right mind would pay to tie their name to such a backward thinking organisation.

sectarian singing is bad but we'll let it happen as long as the club aren't handing out the song sheets.

Stamp it out and keep stamping it out as long as it exists because, as long as it is allowed to exist, our league is never going to progress.

[PatHead]

The bottom line is that Doncaster implementing the rules set up by the clubs. He is not to blame in this instance.

The clubs should be forced to adopt a set of rules which make them accountable for the behaviour of their own supporters. It should start with a warning and timescale to sort it out (I mean days, not months or years), followed by a fine and if this does not work close sections of the stadium, finally making clubs play behind closed doors.

The sad thing is that it will be a small club who will get hammered when rules are put in place. The bigot brothers and Hearts will carry on getting off with it.

[Gatecrasher]

Just heard that Mr Doncaster as agreed a 10 year SPFL sponsorship deal with a company called Re Agent http://www.reagent.co.uk/services/contract-bottling/bottling-company/?gclid=CKr2robN-sMCFYrLtAodZlMACQ




















:greengrin
I almost believed you there but that would have meant the league actually having a sponsor.

[BoomtownHibees]

It is racist IMHO singing " Colymore is a Black Fenian B!

Calling someone a Black B is racist plain and simple.

If that's not racists then what is.


Doncaster bottled it IMHO.

It was "wife beating b"

[PatHead]

Why do the SPFL feel as though they should be ruling the game but abdicate responsibility when it comes to the behavior of (old firm)supporters?

rhetorical question btw....i know its because they are gutless

The SPFL is the clubs not the officials they appoint. IT IS ALL THE CLUBS TO BLAME.

[Aldo]

The bottom line is that Doncaster implementing the rules set up by the clubs. He is not to blame in this instance. The clubs should be forced to adopt a set of rules which make them accountable for the behaviour of their own supporters. It should start with a warning and timescale to sort it out (I mean days, not months or years), followed by a fine and if this does not work close sections of the stadium, finally making clubs play behind closed doors. The sad thing is that it will be a small club who will get hammered when rules are put in place. The bigot brothers and Hearts will carry on getting off with it.

Regardless of what rules are agreed upon certain clubs will get away with it and that will never change until we have folk in charge of the governing bodies (SFA/SPFL) that will actually stand up and denounce the behaviour and actually do something about it.

To say I'm not surprised at the outcome is an under statement.

[Aldo]

It was "wife beating b"

Yes and they used the word Black as well.

[Leith Mo]

Until the law of the land is changed to remove the bar on Roman Catholics holding key offices of State things will never actually change. The law of Scotland already proscribes the singing of certain songs (particularly at football grounds and the surrounding vicinity) yet the authorities do nothing to implement those laws, and in my experience, and also going by what is being written on here, bigotry in Scotland's main form continues to be Anti-Catholic "sentiment" though I don't agree with it in any form.

The old argument that "it's too complicated" to repeal the Act of Settlement, the Catholic Marriages Act and other key disriminatory legislation as it would need c.300 Commonwealth Parliaments to agree is a smokescreen. This election ask your candidate if they will push for the repeal of this institutionalised bigotry then we might finally get change from the top down. Then again, I won't hold my breath.

[Geo_1875]

Another example of why our Holyrood politicians are wasting their time and our money by passing legislation which cannot possibly be policed effectively.

It can be policed effectively, but while Police Scotland remains the biggest lodge in the UK it won't be.

[The_Exile]

And these are the guys that can't fathom why our league doesn't even have a sponsor.

IMO, the no sponsor issue is deliberate, to hammer home a point of "we need Rangers as we can't get a sponsor without them". They should be coasting through games without breaking sweat considering how much help they're getting from refs but they're ballsing it up big time. I reckon league reconstruction if they don't go up, then we can all look forward to the return of ramped up bigotry and a load of talk how it's terrible without any hint of action to rectify it. Welcome to Scotland, please set your watches to 1962.

[The_Sauz]

The bottom line is that Doncaster implementing the rules set up by the clubs. He is not to blame in this instance.

The clubs should be forced to adopt a set of rules which make them accountable for the behaviour of their own supporters. It should start with a warning and timescale to sort it out (I mean days, not months or years), followed by a fine and if this does not work close sections of the stadium, finally making clubs play behind closed doors.

The sad thing is that it will be a small club who will get hammered when rules are put in place. The bigot brothers and Hearts will carry on getting off with it.
Clubs should not be setting rules about sectarianism, bigotry or racism, that's the job of the governing body and it should be their job to enforce the laws and to punish clubs who break it!
The police and match stewards are doing nothing about, and all you get from Celtic and The Rangers are media releases telling us they are doing all they can to stop it..........BS
If they are doing all they can to stop it, then it not been GOOD ENOUGH, and it's time for the SPFL to deal with them with a points deduction or fine or even both if they continue over a period of time.

[Deansy]

"the vast majority of decent fans share a strong degree of anger and despair that the good name of Scottish football is once again being dragged through the mud by the distasteful, shameful and selfish actions of a mindless minority who seem hell bent on indulging in outdated and offensive behaviour"

This reads to me like Doncaster is calling the club currently known as Rangers, a 'mindless minority' - can't disagree with him if this is what he means ?

[Dashing Bob S]

The bottom line is that Doncaster implementing the rules set up by the clubs. He is not to blame in this instance.

The clubs should be forced to adopt a set of rules which make them accountable for the behaviour of their own supporters. It should start with a warning and timescale to sort it out (I mean days, not months or years), followed by a fine and if this does not work close sections of the stadium, finally making clubs play behind closed doors.

The sad thing is that it will be a small club who will get hammered when rules are put in place. The bigot brothers and Hearts will carry on getting off with it.

begs the question: why even bother reporting this to the football authorities?

[grunt]

Chris Brookmyre ‏@cbrookmyre 1m1 minute ago (https://twitter.com/cbrookmyre/status/570210633398013952) One-legged man describes his performance at arse-kicking contest. "I was as much use as Neil Doncaster running the SPFL," he told reporters.

[green&left]

SPFL/SPL in being s****bags shocker :rolleyes:

Wonder if it would be the same if it was an anti Jewish or Islamic song being sung? Or if it was monkey noises raining down from the terraces?

If its the clubs that decide, why the hell is it even being reported in the match report?

Bottlers.

[Moulin Yarns]

I hope Leigh Griffiths uses this as his defence :wink:

"The club did all it could to prevent me singing a racist song, m'lud"

[southsider]

Clubs should not be setting rules about sectarianism, bigotry or racism, that's the job of the governing body and it should be their job to enforce the laws and to punish clubs who break it!
The police and match stewards are doing nothing about, and all you get from Celtic and The Rangers are media releases telling us they are doing all they can to stop it..........BS
If they are doing all they can to stop it, then it not been GOOD ENOUGH, and it's time for the SPFL to deal with them with a points deduction or fine or even both if they continue over a period of time.

"Over a period of time", we have had to stand this hatred for over 30 years and nothing has been done. We need an immediate 10 point deduction from Rangers and if (or rather when) Celtic indulge in their pro-IRA chants hammer them as well. Lastly for any "journalists" looking in Celtic are not playing at the San Siro as only AC Milan play there. Internazionale play at the Giuseppe Meanzza stadia.

[CropleyWasGod]

"Over a period of time", we have had to stand this hatred for over 30 years and nothing has been done. We need an immediate 10 point deduction from Rangers and if (or rather when) Celtic indulge in their pro-IRA chants hammer them as well. Lastly for any "journalists" looking in Celtic are not playing at the San Siro as only AC Milan play there. Internazionale play at the Giuseppe Meanzza stadia.

It's the same place. It has 2 names. :greengrin

[Onion]

It would be if it was the first time that it happened, as it is we know that they can sing what they want without fear of punishment because time and time again they get away with it. There is no deterrent from the authorities, the police don't do a thing about it, so what's going to make them stop?

Exactly. The Huns have been given the green light to sing whatever they like with impunity. Tune in to BT Sport Friday for a repeat performance. SPFL, SFA, BT Sport, Sevco and the Scottish Government bring shame to our country as much as the mindless minority.

[Lucius Apuleius]

Until the law of the land is changed to remove the bar on Roman Catholics holding key offices of State things will never actually change. The law of Scotland already proscribes the singing of certain songs (particularly at football grounds and the surrounding vicinity) yet the authorities do nothing to implement those laws, and in my experience, and also going by what is being written on here, bigotry in Scotland's main form continues to be Anti-Catholic "sentiment" though I don't agree with it in any form.

The old argument that "it's too complicated" to repeal the Act of Settlement, the Catholic Marriages Act and other key disriminatory legislation as it would need c.300 Commonwealth Parliaments to agree is a smokescreen. This election ask your candidate if they will push for the repeal of this institutionalised bigotry then we might finally get change from the top down. Then again, I won't hold my breath.

Interested in this Mo as it is not something I know a lot about. I knew that RCs could not marry into the Royal family (I think) but was unaware of offices of state?

[BonnieFitbaTeam]

It's the same place. It has 2 names. :greengrin


Not quite. San Siro is the district in Milan, Guiseppe Meanzza is the name of the stadium.

I think :wink:

[southsider]

It's the same place. It has 2 names. :greengrin

I know, it just annoys me when so called newspaper men come out with this San Zero cr*p.

[CropleyWasGod]

Not quite. San Siro is the district in Milan, Guiseppe Meanzza is the name of the stadium.

I think :wink:

It's like Celtic's ground. It has an official title, and a common one.

However, the point is that it's one bloody stadium. :greengrin

[BonnieFitbaTeam]

It's like Celtic's ground. It has an official title, and a common one.

However, the point is that it's one bloody stadium. :greengrin


There's no argument that Milan and Inter share the same stadium, I'll give you that :greengrin


On the original topic, the SPFL's excuse is that if clubs can be seen to have done everything to eradicate sectarian singing - which of course the currants absolutely have not - they won't suffer any sanctions. Using that logic, if the knuckle-dragging hordes sing their usual filth in the away end on Friday night will Falkirk get hammered by Doncaster and his fellow arswholes for not doing enough to eradicate it at their ground ?? :dunno:

[southsider]

It's like Celtic's ground. It has an official title, and a common one.

However, the point is that it's one bloody stadium. :greengrin

Called different names by supporters of AC and Inter. Keeps their separate identities I suppose

[The Harp Awakes]

SPFL/SPL in being s****bags shocker :rolleyes:

Wonder if it would be the same if it was an anti Jewish or Islamic song being sung? Or if it was monkey noises raining down from the terraces?

If its the clubs that decide, why the hell is it even being reported in the match report?

Bottlers.

Nail on head and all that:agree:

It's just double standards of course, but it's never going to change. There's no appetite by the UK and Scottish establishments to do anything about anti-Catholic bigotry. As Mo pointed out, as long as the laws of the land discriminate against Catholics, there's no chance organisations like the SFA (who are filled with Rangers minded people) will take a stand.

The only chance is if UEFA was to act, but they've got plenty of other things to concern themselves with just now.

[NAE NOOKIE]

Its not exactly unusual in football for a club to be punished for the actions of its fans irrespective of any measures put in place by the club to stamp it out......... UEFA take an 'if you cant do it we'll do it for you' approach. Though even their approach can be way below what is required at times.

At the League Cup final the 'No Pope from Rome' song could clearly be heard on the telly ..... how much more sectarian can you get? and now we have the same at Raith Rovers in a game covered by a UK wide TV station.

The SFA / SPFL are bringing the game into disrepute by refusing to face up to what must be done. In any sane society their way forward should be clear and here it is.


Joint statement by the SFA / SPFL

Though appreciative of the efforts of the club formerly known as Rangers and the club now known as 'The Rangers' to stamp out sectarian chanting and singing by supporters over the last 10 years, recent events have made it clear to us that these efforts have failed. We have allowed more than enough time for the club to get its message over and can no longer stand by as that message is ignored and the good name of Scottish football, such as it is, is brought into disrepute.

In view of this, beginning with the 26th round of Championship fixtures ( 23rd in the case of The Rangers F.C. ) any report from the referee or Police match commander regarding sectarian singing or chanting or any instance of sectarian singing or chanting which can clearly be heard in any television broadcast involving 'The Rangers FC' irrespective of reports by the referee or Police will result in 'The Rangers FC' being subject to the following sanctions:

First instance: ..... The next home fixture played by the club under the auspices of the SFA / SPFL following the incident will be played behind closed doors.

Second instance: ..... The club will be deducted 3 points.

Third instance: ..... The club will be deducted 9 points and have its goals for record reduced to zero.

Fourth instance: ..... The club will be barred from promotion to the Scottish Premiership irrespective of its final league position. If the incident happens prior to the play offs the clubs place in them will be cancelled should they be in a position to qualify.

Fifth instance: ..... The club will be automatically relegated to the SPFL first division.

Any further instance: ..... The clubs associate membership of the Scottish Football Association will be reviewed.

In making this announcement the SFA / SPFL are fully aware that the vast majority of The Rangers supporters and the club itself do not wish to be ( and are not ) associated with sectarianism in any way. Unfortunately in the 21st century sponsors whether actual or potential do not wish to be associated with sectarianism, racism, homophobia or any other controversial actions which may show their products in a bad light and obviously neither do the SFA or SPFL.

In view of this and in order to protect the interests of our member clubs and the Scottish game in general we can see no alternative to the course of action outlined above.

SFA / SPFL
24/02/2015

There .... how bloody difficult was that?

[JimBHibees]

Absolute joke and we wonder why the game in Scotland has an image problem. The cowardice involved has reached new heights.

[JimBHibees]

IMO, the no sponsor issue is deliberate, to hammer home a point of "we need Rangers as we can't get a sponsor without them". They should be coasting through games without breaking sweat considering how much help they're getting from refs but they're ballsing it up big time. I reckon league reconstruction if they don't go up, then we can all look forward to the return of ramped up bigotry and a load of talk how it's terrible without any hint of action to rectify it. Welcome to Scotland, please set your watches to 1962.

I think you might be right on that.

[Leith Mo]

Interested in this Mo as it is not something I know a lot about. I knew that RCs could not marry into the Royal family (I think) but was unaware of offices of state?

Prime minister Tony Blair waiting until he left office before announcing his conversion to Catholic Church. Lord lieutenant of key counties. Royal family threw another smoke screen by announcing that the ban on Catholic marriages would be lifted whilst omitting any mention of the ban on ruling as a Catholic. On my phone so apologies. There are also loads of 17th century laws that have never been fully repealed

[Lucius Apuleius]

Prime minister Tony Blair waiting until he left office before announcing his conversion to Catholic Church. Lord lieutenant of key counties. Royal family threw another smoke screen by announcing that the ban on Catholic marriages would be lifted whilst omitting any mention of the ban on ruling as a Catholic. On my phone so apologies. There are also loads of 17th century laws that have never been fully repealed

Ah OK, see where you are coming from but is it against the law for a PM to be RC or is it just him pandering to the royal family?

[brog]

And the OF want to play in England! Please, please! They would be out of business in the first season after being hit with fines, sanctions & points deductions.

[Onion]

And begs the question.... if EVERY club's fans were to start singing sectarian, bigoted, racist, homophobic songs that could clearly be heard on national TV what would the authorities, TV companies and media do then ?

Sit back and just let it happen ????

Not a chance in hell !

Cowards, cheats and bigots sit at the top table of Scottish Football. And they wonder why the game is dying before our eyes ?

[Brizo]

a weak excuse, if this was racism and not sectarian chanting I wonder if his response would be the same.


No chance. If the word black was being used instead of Fenian there would be action taken no doubt about it. Don't see what the difference is both contain hatred. Absolute joke.


Wonder if it would be the same if it was an anti Jewish or Islamic song being sung? Or if it was monkey noises raining down from the terraces .

:agree: At the risk of sounding like a paranoid green grape (of the mainly lapsed variety) if any of the above had occurred Doncaster wouldn't be using the weasel words he's come out with. It seems that in Scotland anti Catholicism is still the one ism that people can get away with, with impunity.

[AndyM_1875]

Nail on head and all that:agree:

It's just double standards of course, but it's never going to change. There's no appetite by the UK and Scottish establishments to do anything about anti-Catholic bigotry. As Mo pointed out, as long as the laws of the land discriminate against Catholics, there's no chance organisations like the SFA (who are filled with Rangers minded people) will take a stand.



That's a nice soundbyte but not one that stacks up.
Despite the presence of Campbell Ogilvie, the SFA are not pro-Rangers.
Regan & Doncaster may well be buffoons but they have taken nothing but abuse from Rangers fans since 2012 and is hardly likely to look kindly on them. If anything, post Rangers meltdown, the SFA were extremely angry at the conduct of the custodians of Rangers FC.

The Scottish FA Board consists of
Peter Lawell - CEO of Celtic
Stewart Regan
Campbell Ogilvie
Alan McRae - Cove
Rod Petrie - Chairman of Hibs
Barrie Jackson - independent

which as a committee you could hardly term pro Rangers.

[Leith Mo]

Ah OK, see where you are coming from but is it against the law for a PM to be RC or is it just him pandering to the royal family?

Lucius I'm not aware of the law against what it refers to as "followers of the popish religion" (in itself an offensive term) from being PM having been repealed. Still we have had at least one Jewish PM (Disraeli) and one woman who I won't name so perhaps progress has been made. Pretty sure that the law is still in place but would be great to be proven wrong.

[lord bunberry]

Lucius I'm not aware of the law against what it refers to as "followers of the popish religion" (in itself an offensive term) from being PM having been repealed. Still we have had at least one Jewish PM (Disraeli) and one woman who I won't name so perhaps progress has been made. Pretty sure that the law is still in place but would be great to be proven wrong.
I thought Blair converted whilst he was still PM. I'm pretty sure he attended mass whilst he was PM.

[Leith Mo]

I thought Blair converted whilst he was still PM. I'm pretty sure he attended mass whilst he was PM.

He attended Mass with his wife but didn't "officially" convert until he left office and I seem to remember "concern" in some areas that Mass may have been celebrated within No.10 (although I am sure he went to Westminster RC Cathedral and or the Brompton Oratory

[lord bunberry]

He attended Mass with his wife but didn't "officially" convert until he left office and I seem to remember "concern" in some areas that Mass may have been celebrated within No.10 (although I am sure he went to Westminster RC Cathedral and or the Brompton Oratory
Thanks, I thought I remembered him attending mass. I always assumed he'd converted, it's crazy to think he couldn't convert because he was prime minister

[Springbank]

Cowards, cheats and bigots sit at the top table of Scottish Football. And they wonder why the game is dying before our eyes ?

Spot on

A common argument you hear over the years is Scottish football needs the money the of brought.

Well not for 3 years now we haven't

My personal view is that if these Neanderthals were "lost to the game" through hitting them with harder sanctions then they would be no loss at all, it would be no great mischief to lose the current generation of unintelligent bullying thugs.

Just like it would have been no great loss to the game after the 1980 cup final if the previous generation of unintelligent bullying thugs (and their offspring) had been lost to the game

They're holding back decent people from attending games where the of are the opposition . What's healthy or worth keeping about that?

[Phil D. Rolls]

Interested in this Mo as it is not something I know a lot about. I knew that RCs could not marry into the Royal family (I think) but was unaware of offices of state?

How many Protestant popes, archbishops, or RC priests are there?

[CropleyWasGod]

Ah OK, see where you are coming from but is it against the law for a PM to be RC or is it just him pandering to the royal family?

IIRC, it's to do with the fact that the PM approves the appointment of Anglican bishops and archbishops, on behalf of the head of the Church, the Queen.

In that light, it makes no sense to have a non-Anglican in the position of PM.

How they got round it with Gordon Brown, the son of a minister, in Number 10, though...... :confused:

[The Harp Awakes]

That's a nice soundbyte but not one that stacks up.
Despite the presence of Campbell Ogilvie, the SFA are not pro-Rangers.
Regan & Doncaster may well be buffoons but they have taken nothing but abuse from Rangers fans since 2012 and is hardly likely to look kindly on them. If anything, post Rangers meltdown, the SFA were extremely angry at the conduct of the custodians of Rangers FC.

The Scottish FA Board consists of
Peter Lawell - CEO of Celtic
Stewart Regan
Campbell Ogilvie
Alan McRae - Cove
Rod Petrie - Chairman of Hibs
Barrie Jackson - independent

which as a committee you could hardly term pro Rangers.

1. Lawell would be nothing BUT pro Rangers to protect his own Club's interests both from a financial point of view, and for fear of Celtic suffering the same punishment should his own fans spout their filth.

2. Stewart Regan will be influenced £££££s and will be of the view that anything which tarnishes Rangers and harms them getting back into the SPFL Premier, is bad news for Scottish football.

3. Campbell Ogilvie - say no more.

4. Barrie Jackson - who knows his Club affiliations but is a long standing Director of the Glasgow based Edrington Group.

5. Alan Macrae - Honorary President of Cove RANGERS, knicknamed 'the Wee Rangers' - the Jambos have been upstaged:greengrin

6. Rod Petrie - we all know that Rod wouldn't put his head above the parapet on this one.

Would that group take a balanced view over accusations of bigotry by Rangers supporters? I don't share your optimism I'm afraid.

[NAE NOOKIE]

1. Lawell would be nothing BUT pro Rangers to protect his own teams interests both from a financial point of view, and for fear of Celtic suffering the same punishment should his own fans spout their filth.

2. Stewart Regan will be influenced £££££s and will be of the view that anything which tarnishes Rangers and harms them getting back into the SPFL Premier, is bad news for Scottish football.

3. Campbell Ogilvie - say no more.

4. Barrie Jackson - who knows his Club affiliations but is a long standing Director of the Glasgow based Edrington Group.

5. Alan Macrae - Honorary President of Cove RANGERS, knicknamed 'the Wee Rangers' - the Jambos have been upstaged:greengrin

6. Rod Petrie - we all know that Rod wouldn't put his head above the parapet on this one.

Would that group take a balanced view over accusations of bigotry by Rangers supporters? I don't share your optimism I'm afraid.

Say what you like about Petrie and I do ( often ) it cant be denied that when the original fiasco kicked off he did little to endear himself, or us for that matter, to the Govan smellies.

[Pete]

If the game was serious about this they would do something about it but it's clear that know there would be chaos amongst a certain element...so this crap is trotted out.

Everyone involved should hang their heads in shame as they are making the country a laughing stock as they are so out of tune with modern British society (I say British deliberately).

Sick of this.

[The Harp Awakes]

Say what you like about Petrie and I do ( often ) it cant be denied that when the original fiasco kicked off he did little to endear himself, or us for that matter, to the Govan smellies.

I wouldn't disagree with that, but if Rod still has ambitions to get the top job at the SFA, it would do him no favours to create a fuss about this.

[Spike Mandela]

Say what you like about Petrie and I do ( often ) it cant be denied that when the original fiasco kicked off he did little to endear himself, or us for that matter, to the Govan smellies.

Apart from being the messenger boy to Charles Green with plans of parachuting Sevco in one division below the Premiership.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/rangers/9400788/Rangers-in-crisis-SFA-chief-Stewart-Regan-could-become-latest-casualty-in-saga-after-email-leak.html

[Mikey09]

So what they're really saying is, "Bash on the the rangers and sing whatever you like without the worry of ANY sanctions!"
Isn't it amazing Uefa would rattle them with fines whenever they stepped out of line yet the bottle merchants at the SFA/SPFL put there fingers In there ears AGAIN!! The sooner Doncaster, Regan etc get the **** out our game the better for everyone. They would struggle to organise a coffee morning raffle....

[Salt N Sauzee]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/31602715

Well Well Well...what a shock:rolleyes:




What a load of poo


not one bit surprised. :grr::fuming:

[Phil MaGlass]

The SFA,s priority, soon enough, will be the promotion of the the rangers at our expense in the playoffs ref and linesmen will be well drilled, its on the cards, does anyone really believe the the wont be going up?

[hibs0666]

a weak excuse, if this was racism and not sectarian chanting I wonder if his response would be the same.

They haven't gagged the f!"£$%s on the way in, ergo they have not done everything possible to make them shut the F!"k up.

[JimBHibees]

The SFA,s priority, soon enough, will be the promotion of the the rangers at our expense in the playoffs ref and linesmen will be well drilled, its on the cards, does anyone really believe the the wont be going up?

Agree with that we will get shafted if it is anywhere near a close game.

[Keith_M]

How many Protestant popes, archbishops, or RC priests are there?


The Archbishop of Canterbury.

[CB_NO3]

An absolute shambles. A disgrace of a country we are. What would the punishment be if someone sang "upto our knees in Muslim blood"?

[Keith_M]

An absolute shambles. A disgrace of a country we are. What would the punishment be if someone sang "upto our knees in Muslim blood"?


Beheading?

[Pete]

An absolute shambles. A disgrace of a country we are. What would the punishment be if someone sang "upto our knees in Muslim blood"?

The clubs have done lots to eradicate racism.

Therefore absolutely nothing would happen to them.

[marinello59]

So what they're really saying is, "Bash on the the rangers and sing whatever you like without the worry of ANY sanctions!"
Isn't it amazing Uefa would rattle them with fines whenever they stepped out of line yet the bottle merchants at the SFA/SPFL put there fingers In there ears AGAIN!! The sooner Doncaster, Regan etc get the **** out our game the better for everyone. They would struggle to organise a coffee morning raffle....

Doncaster, Regan and co are not to blame. They are administering the rules as voted for by their employers, the clubs. They had the chance to use the same rules that UEFA do but the vast majority voted against it for fear of facing punishment themselves.

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

Is it not up to the member clubs to change this? I don't why any club should be reticent to approve a clamp-down. If their fans are not doing anything wrong, then why not let the rules endorse that?

[grunt]

Doncaster, Regan and co are not to blame. They are administering the rules as voted for by their employers, the clubs. They had the chance to use the same rules that UEFA do but the vast majority voted against it for fear of facing punishment themselves.
With respect this seems to be a bit of a cop out. It's all very well Doncaster / Regan holding their hands up and saying "it's not our decision", but there seems to be a significant fan movement in the country who are fed up with this situation. As executives they have a responsibility to guide the clubs to do the right thing.

I don't expect them to - they've shown no leadership at all over the years and I don't expect then to start now.

[hibsbollah]

A joke. And we should collectively hang our heads in shame for tolerating this situation.

[TrinityHibs]

If you don't want sectarian singing just ban the Huns from ER. That would make a statement but its not going to happen. Same with Celtc as and when we play them again.

[Bishop Hibee]

Sickening. Being a Roman Catholic in Scotland means being a second class subject when it comes to offensive chanting.

Compare this to the furore, quite rightly, regarding the racist singing by Chelsea fans on the Paris metro.

[Jack Hackett]

If you don't want sectarian singing just ban the Huns from ER. That would make a statement but its not going to happen. Same with Celtc as and when we play them again.

In the same vein, we could give the the rangers only 953 tickets for our next game against them, and fill the top tier with Hibs supporters in a clear retaliatory gesture for the last game...purely as a safety consideration, naturally

[darwenhibby]

I thought Rangers had been punished by certain parts of the ground closed randomly when watching on tv

[Jim44]

Doncaster, Regan and co are not to blame. They are administering the rules as voted for by their employers, the clubs. They had the chance to use the same rules that UEFA do but the vast majority voted against it for fear of facing punishment themselves.

Because we don't conform to UEFA rules, they should ban all Scottish teams, including the international team, from all European competitions. That might make the blazers sit up and take action.

[hibbiedon]

This problem has gone on for too long and has been ignored by unionist politicians who do not want to upset either side of the bigotry divide, this is Scotland's shame and all decent fans should be putting pressure on the powers that be to take action, I cannot understand why certain people have a go at the Scottish government for at least trying to stop it

[Deansy]

S*um - both the Hun and the GFA ! Both organisations with the same values, morals and integrity - none. Scotland needs shot of them !

[neil7908]

Total, utter embarrassment. Honestly don't know why I bother with football sometimes

[Glorious St Pat]

Doncaster, Regan and co are not to blame. They are administering the rules as voted for by their employers, the clubs. They had the chance to use the same rules that UEFA do but the vast majority voted against it for fear of facing punishment themselves.

Spot on....I was looking for a post to explain Doncaster's decision. The above is spot on. The clubs voted against punishing themselves for instances such as sectarianism. There was an article in the Herald yesterday making the same point.

[Keith_M]

Spot on....I was looking for a post to explain Doncaster's decision. The above is spot on. The clubs voted against punishing themselves for instances such as sectarianism. There was an article in the Herald yesterday making the same point.


I would really like to know which way each Club voted. I would be disgusted, but not surprised, if Petrie was one of those who voted against.

[Glorious St Pat]

Sorry for the long copy and paste but here is the article from The Sunday Herald. Clubs voted against 'strict liability' UEFA rule so clubs can't get hammered.

In the summer of 2013 Stewart Regan and Campbell Ogilvie, the chief executive and president respectively, told the SFA members that the time had come to copy Fifa and Uefa and introduce "strict liability" on discriminatory behaviour by supporters. In other words, if fans step out of line it is the clubs who pay the penalty, be it via fines, part-closure of grounds, docking of points, whatever. There would be no hiding behind "we did everything we could, it wasn't our fault". The issue was put to a vote at Hampden and the result said it all: only five per cent were in favour of it.

Regan bit his tongue, praised the quality of debate and said clubs did recognise there was a need to do more, but more tellingly he summed it up like this: "It's disappointing because Uefa do this [strict liability] and it works. If clubs are dealt with, and they behave inappropriately again and are dealt with again, there comes a point where fans are spoken to and behaviour improves. The Scottish FA's view is that it should be able to work on a domestic level. However, it was a leap too far for the members. Clubs would have been voting to punish themselves in the event of unacceptable behaviour. So you can see there's a bit of self-interest coming into play. No club wants to sign its own warrant for a sanction." When the SPFL was formed, that same summer, it adopted all of the same rules on "unacceptable conduct" and didn't want to know about strict liability. And so clubs can claim they are taking a stance without the risk of being held accountable.

The end result can be thousands of supporters inside Hampden singing "The Famine Song" and "No Pope of Rome" and a pathetic, watery response from the authorities, as if that is just what happens in 2015 Scotland. There is the Offensive Behaviour at Football Act, of course, but that is ill-conceived and impractical legislation unpopular with lawyers and the police, let alone supporters. There were only 12 arrests for sectarian behaviour at the Old Firm game. The police have said often enough that they will not wade into stands and start arresting dozens of fans for singing, let alone hundreds or thousands.

Earlier this season clubs in England received a letter from the Football Association informing them that "strict liability" was to be introduced there. The FA had been pressurised into that by MPs and campaigners appalled by some racist, homophobic and anti-semitic incidents. There is no evidence that the Scottish Government is inclined lean on the SFA and SPFL in the same way, or that campaigners here will be as successful.

That's a shame, because strict liability and zero tolerance would work. When Rangers or Celtic have been disciplined by Uefa they can't get statements out quickly enough to warn fans and condemn those who embarrass them. When there's an SPFL probe? Barely a word. The ironic thing is that after a stinging initial fine or two, which would force the penny to drop with fans, no club would benefit from a tougher line more than Rangers.

[Prof. Shaggy]

Of course this is a shameful turn of events.
It would be some comfort to think that posters on here could try not to miss the target.

[Glorious St Pat]

I would really like to know which way each Club voted. I would be disgusted, but not surprised, if Petrie was one of those who voted against.

See article below - only 5% of clubs voted for the 'strict liability' rule a few years ago.

[Bishop Hibee]

Sorry for the long copy and paste but here is the article from The Sunday Herald. Clubs voted against 'strict liability' UEFA rule so clubs can't get hammered.

In the summer of 2013 Stewart Regan and Campbell Ogilvie, the chief executive and president respectively, told the SFA members that the time had come to copy Fifa and Uefa and introduce "strict liability" on discriminatory behaviour by supporters. In other words, if fans step out of line it is the clubs who pay the penalty, be it via fines, part-closure of grounds, docking of points, whatever. There would be no hiding behind "we did everything we could, it wasn't our fault". The issue was put to a vote at Hampden and the result said it all: only five per cent were in favour of it.

Regan bit his tongue, praised the quality of debate and said clubs did recognise there was a need to do more, but more tellingly he summed it up like this: "It's disappointing because Uefa do this [strict liability] and it works. If clubs are dealt with, and they behave inappropriately again and are dealt with again, there comes a point where fans are spoken to and behaviour improves. The Scottish FA's view is that it should be able to work on a domestic level. However, it was a leap too far for the members. Clubs would have been voting to punish themselves in the event of unacceptable behaviour. So you can see there's a bit of self-interest coming into play. No club wants to sign its own warrant for a sanction." When the SPFL was formed, that same summer, it adopted all of the same rules on "unacceptable conduct" and didn't want to know about strict liability. And so clubs can claim they are taking a stance without the risk of being held accountable.

The end result can be thousands of supporters inside Hampden singing "The Famine Song" and "No Pope of Rome" and a pathetic, watery response from the authorities, as if that is just what happens in 2015 Scotland. There is the Offensive Behaviour at Football Act, of course, but that is ill-conceived and impractical legislation unpopular with lawyers and the police, let alone supporters. There were only 12 arrests for sectarian behaviour at the Old Firm game. The police have said often enough that they will not wade into stands and start arresting dozens of fans for singing, let alone hundreds or thousands.

Earlier this season clubs in England received a letter from the Football Association informing them that "strict liability" was to be introduced there. The FA had been pressurised into that by MPs and campaigners appalled by some racist, homophobic and anti-semitic incidents. There is no evidence that the Scottish Government is inclined lean on the SFA and SPFL in the same way, or that campaigners here will be as successful.

That's a shame, because strict liability and zero tolerance would work. When Rangers or Celtic have been disciplined by Uefa they can't get statements out quickly enough to warn fans and condemn those who embarrass them. When there's an SPFL probe? Barely a word. The ironic thing is that after a stinging initial fine or two, which would force the penny to drop with fans, no club would benefit from a tougher line more than Rangers.

Sums the situation up perfectly :top marks

[banarc7062]

It can be policed effectively, but while Police Scotland remains the biggest lodge in the UK it won't be.

You could be so right. I understood our police were called Police Scotland but if you care to explore the senior rank positions you may find that the former Strathclyde force have an unbelieveable number of officers holding senior roles.:confused:

[theonlywayisup]

Only in Scotland can you get a Celtic footballer allegedly singing a song about refugees and get charged by the Law and you then get a large number of Rangers fans repeatedly singing sectarian songs and no punishment is given to the club they follow follow.

[Matty_Jack04]

I would really like to know which way each Club voted. I would be disgusted, but not surprised, if Petrie was one of those who voted against.

There must be a way that we can say to Petrie we want this changed, we're not going to be the only clubs fans outraged by it, if we bring it to Petrie and other clubs take it to their chairmen they will have to have meetings/votes surely, scottish football fans made the authorities take the right steps during the Rangers meltdown we need to do it again IMO it's not going to go away and these lot in Hampden haven't got a set between them.
I'd also like to know if there is a way we can remove Doncaster and reegan from post scottish football is an absolute shambles with these guys around

[PatHead]

Its not exactly unusual in football for a club to be punished for the actions of its fans irrespective of any measures put in place by the club to stamp it out......... UEFA take an 'if you cant do it we'll do it for you' approach. Though even their approach can be way below what is required at times.

At the League Cup final the 'No Pope from Rome' song could clearly be heard on the telly ..... how much more sectarian can you get? and now we have the same at Raith Rovers in a game covered by a UK wide TV station.

The SFA / SPFL are bringing the game into disrepute by refusing to face up to what must be done. In any sane society their way forward should be clear and here it is.


Joint statement by the SFA / SPFL

Though appreciative of the efforts of the club formerly known as Rangers and the club now known as 'The Rangers' to stamp out sectarian chanting and singing by supporters over the last 10 years, recent events have made it clear to us that these efforts have failed. We have allowed more than enough time for the club to get its message over and can no longer stand by as that message is ignored and the good name of Scottish football, such as it is, is brought into disrepute.

In view of this, beginning with the 26th round of Championship fixtures ( 23rd in the case of The Rangers F.C. ) any report from the referee or Police match commander regarding sectarian singing or chanting or any instance of sectarian singing or chanting which can clearly be heard in any television broadcast involving 'The Rangers FC' irrespective of reports by the referee or Police will result in 'The Rangers FC' being subject to the following sanctions:

First instance: ..... The next home fixture played by the club under the auspices of the SFA / SPFL following the incident will be played behind closed doors.

Second instance: ..... The club will be deducted 3 points.

Third instance: ..... The club will be deducted 9 points and have its goals for record reduced to zero.

Fourth instance: ..... The club will be barred from promotion to the Scottish Premiership irrespective of its final league position. If the incident happens prior to the play offs the clubs place in them will be cancelled should they be in a position to qualify.

Fifth instance: ..... The club will be automatically relegated to the SPFL first division.

Any further instance: ..... The clubs associate membership of the Scottish Football Association will be reviewed.

In making this announcement the SFA / SPFL are fully aware that the vast majority of The Rangers supporters and the club itself do not wish to be ( and are not ) associated with sectarianism in any way. Unfortunately in the 21st century sponsors whether actual or potential do not wish to be associated with sectarianism, racism, homophobia or any other controversial actions which may show their products in a bad light and obviously neither do the SFA or SPFL.

In view of this and in order to protect the interests of our member clubs and the Scottish game in general we can see no alternative to the course of action outlined above.

SFA / SPFL
24/02/2015

There .... how bloody difficult was that?

Impossible if the clubs do not agree to it. It has to be a bottom up approach

[ancient hibee]

There must be a way that we can say to Petrie we want this changed, we're not going to be the only clubs fans outraged by it, if we bring it to Petrie and other clubs take it to their chairmen they will have to have meetings/votes surely, scottish football fans made the authorities take the right steps during the Rangers meltdown we need to do it again IMO it's not going to go away and these lot in Hampden haven't got a set between them.
I'd also like to know if there is a way we can remove Doncaster and reegan from post scottish football is an absolute shambles with these guys around


So how would you feel if it was in force and we missed promotion due to a points deduction for our fans singing a silly song?

[Matty_Jack04]

See article below - only 5% of clubs voted for the 'strict liability' rule a few years ago.

Was this before the new voting structure came into place? I can't remember the workings of it but I'm sure it was pretty stacked In favour of whatever the old firm voted before SPFL came into play?

[emerald green]

This is all so very depressingly familiar, and should come as no surprise to anyone who knows anything about football in this country.

I don't think anything will ever change, as far as the Rangers supporters chants / songs are concerned, until the rules are changed, agreed by all member clubs, and sanctions are introduced whereby the offending supporters' club suffers a points deduction (plus possibly escalating fines) every time it happens.

First time - say 1 point deducted; Second time - 2 points; Third time - 3 points; 4th time - 10 points, and so on until they get the message.

No doubt people will find fault and pick holes in this suggestion, but something along these lines might be worth a try? Maybe?

[Glorious St Pat]

There must be a way that we can say to Petrie we want this changed, we're not going to be the only clubs fans outraged by it, if we bring it to Petrie and other clubs take it to their chairmen they will have to have meetings/votes surely, scottish football fans made the authorities take the right steps during the Rangers meltdown we need to do it again IMO it's not going to go away and these lot in Hampden haven't got a set between them.
I'd also like to know if there is a way we can remove Doncaster and reegan from post scottish football is an absolute shambles with these guys around

Read my article from The Sunday a Herald. The clubs voted in the summer if 2013 and only 5% voted in favour of the strict liability rule ie a rule to punish themselves for their fans behaviour.

[Glorious St Pat]

Was this before the new voting structure came into place? I can't remember the workings of it but I'm sure it was pretty stacked In favour of whatever the old firm voted before SPFL came into play?

The vote was taken in the summer of 2013 and the clubs voted against it. Unsure when the new voting structure came into place.

[Glorious St Pat]

This is all so very depressingly familiar, and should come as no surprise to anyone who knows anything about football in this country.

I don't think anything will ever change, as far as the Rangers supporters chants / songs are concerned, until the rules are changed, agreed by all member clubs, and sanctions are introduced whereby the offending supporters' club suffers a points deduction (plus possibly escalating fines) every time it happens.

First time - say 1 point deducted; Second time - 2 points; Third time - 3 points; 4th time - 10 points, and so on until they get the message.

No doubt people will find fault and pick holes in this suggestion, but something along these lines might be worth a try? Maybe?

Totally agree and in line with the UEFA ruling on strict liability but it was kicked into touch by our own clubs.

[Matty_Jack04]

So how would you feel if it was in force and we missed promotion due to a points deduction for our fans singing a silly song?

I'd be raging of course but that silly song wouldn't be sung again that's the main issue isn't it? It's no different to singing songs about Jews etc UEFA hammered a team playing Spurs and hammered CSKA Moscow for racist chants in the Europa and champs league, we're a UEFA member why aren't we playing from the same rule book?

[emerald green]

Totally agree and in line with the UEFA ruling on strict liability but it was kicked into touch by our own clubs.

:agree: Yes, that's why I said in my post that the clubs would have to agree. If they don't agree, nothing will change IMHO.

[Glorious St Pat]

http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/31602715

Good debate here from The Herald's football writer in the strict liability rule - see the audio clip above.

[O'Rourke3]

There must be a way that we can say to Petrie we want this changed, we're not going to be the only clubs fans outraged by it, if we bring it to Petrie and other clubs take it to their chairmen they will have to have meetings/votes surely, scottish football fans made the authorities take the right steps during the Rangers meltdown we need to do it again IMO it's not going to go away and these lot in Hampden haven't got a set between them.
I'd also like to know if there is a way we can remove Doncaster and reegan from post scottish football is an absolute shambles with these guys around
I think this us why they made their decision quickly. The administrators are in the hands of the clubs and so its up to grass root supporters like us to get our club to raise it and use other fans forums for their clubs to do likewise. Doncaster will not be comfortable being the messenger in this and looking complicit. There are areas of the media suggesting self policing but how does that work when fans block police or stewards moving in on culprits making arrest or removal impossible by simply taking the view that they're going after one of us?

[Prof. Shaggy]

This is all so very depressingly familiar, and should come as no surprise to anyone who knows anything about football in this country.

I don't think anything will ever change, as far as the Rangers supporters chants / songs are concerned, until the rules are changed, agreed by all member clubs, and sanctions are introduced whereby the offending supporters' club suffers a points deduction (plus possibly escalating fines) every time it happens.

First time - say 1 point deducted; Second time - 2 points; Third time - 3 points; 4th time - 10 points, and so on until they get the message.

No doubt people will find fault and pick holes in this suggestion, but something along these lines might be worth a try? Maybe?

I think this is likely to be the best way forward. I'd be inclined to simplify it to -3 points per match in which a very clear threshold is reached but your sliding scale does have it's attractions.
Crucially it makes the supporters responsible for the outcome of the game.

[PatHead]

Fired this email off to my MSP today

"Once again the issue of Sectarian Chanting has arisen at football matches with the song containing the words "Knee deep in fenian blood"
being used.

Once again the SPFL state that the clubs involved are not liable for the actions of their supporters.

This is a shame and a blight on our society and country. If the governing body of Scottish football are not capable of dealing with this matter they are not fit and proper to hold office or capable of governing themselves.

As a regular attendee of football matches I have now had to endure this behaviour 3 times this season and it was reported in the press that the Hearts Chairperson also raised it after a visit by Celtic. (Though there is footage of Hearts supporters signing sectarian songs at Easter Road earlier this season). I also realise that my own club are no angels when it comes to chants at football matches.

Can this issue be raised in the Scottish Parliament suggesting to the SPFL that they either bring in and enforce rules holding clubs accountable for the actions of their supporters or a law will be created to do this?

Serious action needs to be taken today to rid Scotland of this purge on our society. In the 21st century it is a disgrace that this behaviour is allowed to continue and the Scottish government appear to either not care or are incapable of taking any action.

I expect nothing less than a senior member of each major party in Scotland to comment on this and would be grateful if you could raise this as a matter as a cross party initiative as soon as possible. I would hope that no single party would try to "point score" on this serious matter.

I look forward to your early reply."

As many as people as possible should contact their MSPs to demand action

[Glorious St Pat]

In response to Leith Mo and others - constitutionally there is nothing to prevent a PM being Catholic but there are restrictions in place under the following:

The 1829 Roman Catholic Relief Act does prohibit such a prime minister from advising the queen on church appointments. But, given that the Lord Chancellor (Tenure of Office and Discharge of Ecclesiastical Functions) Act 1974 provided that, if a Roman Catholic should be appointed Lord Chancellor, arrangements may be made by the Queen in Council for any or all of his
ecclesiastical functions to be performed by the Prime Minister or any other Minister
of the Crown. I suspect similar arrangements would be made for a catholic PM.

[Kojock]

It can be policed effectively, but while Police Scotland remains the biggest lodge in the UK it won't be.

Can you please evidence your statement.
Are you talking about the Masonic Lodge or the Orange Lodge
Can you tell me what percentage of serving Police Officers are members of either organisation to back up your ludicrous accusations.

[bingo70]

There's some things the club's should control, tv deals, prize money etc..... something like punishments for racist behaviour needs to be taken out their hands.

I'm a but confused with the league reconstruction, do the Sfa still trump the spfl? Is it feasable that the Sfa could step in and hand down a punishment? (I'm assuming that clown Doncaster is with the spfl rather than the Sfa?)

[AndyM_1875]

1. Lawell would be nothing BUT pro Rangers to protect his own Club's interests both from a financial point of view, and for fear of Celtic suffering the same punishment should his own fans spout their filth.

2. Stewart Regan will be influenced £££££s and will be of the view that anything which tarnishes Rangers and harms them getting back into the SPFL Premier, is bad news for Scottish football.

3. Campbell Ogilvie - say no more.

4. Barrie Jackson - who knows his Club affiliations but is a long standing Director of the Glasgow based Edrington Group.

5. Alan Macrae - Honorary President of Cove RANGERS, knicknamed 'the Wee Rangers' - the Jambos have been upstaged:greengrin

6. Rod Petrie - we all know that Rod wouldn't put his head above the parapet on this one.

Would that group take a balanced view over accusations of bigotry by Rangers supporters? I don't share your optimism I'm afraid.

1 agree on Lawell's cynicism. He wants Rangers back but has to keep a neutral almost hands off approach to appease the more swivel eyed Sellik types.

2 Regan wants to see the game develop. That doesn't mean he's going to hand carte Blanche to a rangers whose fans behave appallingly

3 and he was also an employee at Hearts....

4 again so what

5 about as relevant as Manchester City & Brechin City.:greengrin

6 Rod did put his head above the parapet. He wanted Rangers hammered & titles removed.
Even Charles Green commented about Rod Petrie's overt hostility towards Rangers.
There would be no easy ride for them.

[OsloHibs]

No - only what was to be expected.

No one is prepared to address sectarianism in Scottish football and society, not the government, not the police, not the football authorities.

A while back Celtic were quoted as expressing concern at the continued absence of The Rangers from the Premiership. They were losing money they said, which was compromising their chances in Europe.

That was them telling Doncaster and his cronies to make sure The Rangers got promoted this season and no later.

On Saturday the officials turned down two, possibly three stonewall penalty claims for us. At Ibrox in the 2-0 game The Rangers were given carte blanche to assault our players and nothing was done about it. It's started, and it's going to get worse.

Trust me - nothing bad will be done to The Rangers regardless of what they (or their fans) get up to between now and the end of the play-offs final.

:agree:

[Glorious St Pat]

Can you please evidence your statement.
Are you talking about the Masonic Lodge or the Orange Lodge
Can you tell me what percentage of serving Police Officers are members of either organisation to back up your ludicrous accusations.

Don't be so naive. Well known of their lodge connections. I know of six police officers and they are all members.

[Kojock]

Don't be so naive. Well known of their lodge connections. I know of six police officers and they are all members.

So tell me what percentage of serving officers are lodge members.

[blackpoolhibs]

Its decisions like this that only add to the apathy and dissolution that's running right through our game in Scotland.

[AndyM_1875]

14446
So tell me what percentage of serving officers are lodge members.

[The_Sauz]

So tell me what percentage of serving officers are lodge members.
The only people who would really know that question is the orange order and the masonic lodge, so why ask him?
Or did he hit a nerve?

[calmac12000]

It really is a disgraceful decision to have a Chief Executive openly dismiss a report before he's actually read it. The m,essage it sends out is appalling i.e. in Scotland in 2015 you can verbally abuse someone on the basis of their colour, religion and ethnicity and as far as the Scottish Footballing Authorities are concerned its nothing to do with them.
The Rangers support are laugfhing at Scottish football, now saying there was no racial chanting! Christ almighty a mate and me heard it with our own ears and could scarcely believe it.
Its obvious that nothing will change under the Ancien Regime operating out of Hampden.
Frankly I despair!

[O'Rourke3]

It really is a disgraceful decision to have a Chief Executive openly dismiss a report before he's actually read it. The m,essage it sends out is appalling i.e. in Scotland in 2015 you can verbally abuse someone on the basis of their colour, religion and ethnicity and as far as the Scottish Footballing Authorities are concerned its nothing to do with them.
The Rangers support are laugfhing at Scottish football, now saying there was no racial chanting! Christ almighty a mate and me heard it with our own ears and could scarcely believe it.
Its obvious that nothing will change under the Ancien Regime operating out of Hampden.
Frankly I despair!
No he's saying under the rules there's not much he can do about it. There's a big difference. I agree the message is appalling. His statement more or less backed that. The way to fix this is to get the fans of those clubs who do not support this type of behaviour to get to their clubs and insist that their club actually does something about it......

[Paisley Hibby]

Hunbelievable

Naw, just Hunsurprising :wink:

[Eyrie]

Naw, just Hunsurprising :wink:

It's another example of Hunacceptable behaviour.

[Moulin Yarns]

Compare and contrast.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/31602715

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/31619707

£12,600 fine for one, nothing for the other.

[Glorious St Pat]

Compare and contrast.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/31602715

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/31619707

£12,600 fine for one, nothing for the other.

Because strict liability rules comply with Euro competitions not domestic games as our clubs refused to endorse it.

[Smartie]

Ok, so it looks like all of the clubs are complicit in this through not backing the introduction of strict liability rules.

Are the fans of the clubs onside with this though? I can't believe that the fans of any club in Scotland (outwith the OF) will be anything other than disgusted with this chain of events.

Do we as fans need to put pressure on our club - and encourage those at other clubs - to change this ruling?

Is this maybe something for our "fans representatives" to take up with the club?

As far as I'm concerned if you're not part of the solution you're part of the problem. Given the history of our club and the fact that sectarianism was feature in our ground as recently as the 70s only to be eradicated completely I'd like to see us take the lead on this.

I don't think the simple, quiet, lethargic "it's always been this way and always will" approach is acceptable here.

[Biggie]

Because strict liability rules comply with Euro competitions not domestic games as our clubs refused to endorse it.

shame on them all....in 21st century Scotland as well......we're a wee country....with small ambitions..
It would be interesting to hear how hibs voted......

[Kojock]

The only people who would really know that question is the orange order and the masonic lodge, so why ask him?
Or did he hit a nerve?

Because so many empty vessels on here type whatever they want without any facts or figures to back it up. I used to know hundreds of serving officers and never knew of any who were members of the orange order with less than 1% of officers being members of the masonic lodge.

[Gingertosser]

It will need people to put pressure on all the clubs, and also the Scottish government.

Money is the only thing that the clubs are interested in, so if supporters refused to attend matches against certain teams, clubs like Hibs would have to do something.

Similarly, pressure should be put on the Scottish government to stop any funds being allocated directly or indirectly thro' governmentt funded initiatives to the SFA/SPFL, this would get the people at the top of our game bricking it.

[Golden Bear]

I must admit that I have a certain sympathy with the Clubs and can understand the stance that they take.

Provided that they comply with all the Health & Safety requirements, employ the necessary number of Stewards and arrange for an adequate Police presence within the stadium then why should they be held accountable for the actions of fans? There's only so much that they can do and surely it's the responsibility of the Police and the justice system to ensure that law and order is maintained.

Numpties will always be numpties whether they are singing sectarian songs, letting off smoke bombs or hurling missiles on to the pitch from row ZZ of the stand.

I don't know what the answer is but neither the Clubs nor innocent fans should be made to suffer because of the actions of a few (or not so few as the case may be)

[7062]

I must admit that I have a certain sympathy with the Clubs and can understand the stance that they take.

Provided that they comply with all the Health & Safety requirements, employ the necessary number of Stewards and arrange for an adequate Police presence within the stadium then why should they be held accountable for the actions of fans? There's only so much that they can do and surely it's the responsibility of the Police and the justice system to ensure that law and order is maintained.

Numpties will always be numpties whether they are singing sectarian songs, letting off smoke bombs or hurling missiles on to the pitch from row ZZ of the stand.

I don't know what the answer is but neither the Clubs nor innocent fans should be made to suffer because of the actions of a few (or not so few as the case may be)

I agree with most things in your post, however I wonder if the sectarian chants, smoke bombs etc would stop if the clubs were punished for their fans behaviour. I don't think anyone, no matter how much of an idiot they were, would want to be responsible for the club they support being docked points/fined.

[Lucius Apuleius]

Because so many empty vessels on here type whatever they want without any facts or figures to back it up. I used to know hundreds of serving officers and never knew of any who were members of the orange order with less than 1% of officers being members of the masonic lodge.

Correct. Local masonic lodge has 620 plus members. None are serving policemen.

[Golden Bear]

I agree with most things in your post, however I wonder if the sectarian chants, smoke bombs etc would stop if the clubs were punished for their fans behaviour. I don't think anyone, no matter how much of an idiot they were, would want to be responsible for the club they support being docked points/fined.

I beg to differ - the possible consequences for the Club they supposedly support will not come in to their "thinking."

[--------]

There's no reason at all why the law of the land shouldn't be applied within football grounds the same as in other public places.

However, the football authorities need to act to revise their rule book to bring their guidelines into line with UEFA's.

"There's a nearly 200-page rule book for Scottish football and nowhere in it do you find any kind of guidelines on how you deal with offensive behaviour, it's all very vague in that regard. Strict liability is Uefa's standard and what it sets out to do is very clear guidelines as to what happens if you behave in a sectarian, racist or offensive way at a match. The sanctions can include fining the club, closing the section of the stand where the singing emanated from, it can include docking points, it can include in very extreme cases, as we had in Russia, games being played behind closed doors. It's actually giving football governing bodies the teeth to do something about it, because at the moment what we've got is everybody seeking to excuse themselves from duty - clubs pointing to the SPFL, the SPFL pointing to the police."

Dave Scott of 'Nil By Mouth'.

The football authorities blame the police. The police say they don't have the powers to arrest all the culprits. The government make noises about passing new legislation, but actually do nothing. So the SFA say the polis should act; the polis say they need new legislation so the government should act, and the government make noises about how football should put its own house in order.

It's nothing to do with the Masons - it's about money and the fact that too many of the smaller clubs in Scotland are run by people with strong Rangers/Celtic sympathies (mostly Ranger IMO) and that ALL the smaller clubs in Scotland are scared stiff to offend the Gruesome Twosome because they know well that sooner or later they may need a favour from one of them.


Maybe what we need to happen is for UEFA to decide that since the SFA and SPFL are unwilling to change their rulebooks and therefore unable to do anything about the sort of singing we hear regularly from the stands at Ibrox and elsewhere, the time has come to suspend both these bodies from participation in any international competition at any level.

That just MIGHT get the attention of the paper-pushers at Hampden Park and the wasters who run our football clubs.

BTW - one thing I wouldn't accuse Rod Petrie of being is soft on sectarianism. Were Hibs not one of the two clubs who voted in favour of change?

[Tynie01011973]

Chris McLaughlin ‏@BBCchrismclaug 3m3 minutes ago
SPFL say they're to discuss current regulations re sectarian chanting at next board meeting in March.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B-sz9kDWkAA3rv5.jpg

Shamed into actually doing something about it ? Or just trying to look as if they are ?

[Aldo]

The only people who would really know that question is the orange order and the masonic lodge, so why ask him? Or did he hit a nerve? I f I'm reading you correctly I think what you are saying is making a stereotypical statement or generalisation that every police office has been or is in the Orange Order or Masonic Lodge. This made me laugh out loud btw!! I know loads of Cops and not one is or has been a member of either of the above.

[superfurryhibby]

Don't be so naive. Well known of their lodge connections. I know of six police officers and they are all members.

Funnily enough the two cops I've known were both Masons. The only other Mason I know, that admits it, is a taxi driver. That takes me to the only miscarriage of justice I've been party to. Involved a motorcycle, taxi and two cops who weren't part of the incident but aha, ha, witnessed it.

Who knows about the extent of freemasonry? Personally, I'm more concerned about the number of cabinet members who went to Eton and were part of the Bullingdon Club. Far more sinister.

People need to stop associating Rangers and Celtic when it comes to this and treat each issue on it's own merits. They are not the same, it lends strength to the bigots and makes it too easy to dismiss that the problems are something that cannot be changed. They are not a package and the sooner we divide them , then we can conquer them.

[PeeKay]

Good article from Tom English on the BBC site in which he compares the response from Chelsea to the racism of fans in Paris, and from West Ham in response to the anti-Semitism at the Spurs game, to the total inaction from the huns and the football authorities in Scotland to the sectarianism on display last Friday.

[Keith_M]

In response to Leith Mo and others - constitutionally there is nothing to prevent a PM being Catholic but there are restrictions in place under the following:

The 1829 Roman Catholic Relief Act does prohibit such a prime minister from advising the queen on church appointments. But, given that the Lord Chancellor (Tenure of Office and Discharge of Ecclesiastical Functions) Act 1974 provided that, if a Roman Catholic should be appointed Lord Chancellor, arrangements may be made by the Queen in Council for any or all of his
ecclesiastical functions to be performed by the Prime Minister or any other Minister
of the Crown. I suspect similar arrangements would be made for a catholic PM.


You must admit, it would seem a bit strange for someone other than a member of the CofE to be taking part in appointments to that Church. I expect the only reason that members of the RC Faith are mentioned in such laws is that they date back to a time when other religions were an irrelevance, so not worth mentioning.

Although, to someone like myself that's totally against any link between Church and State, the whole thing seems to stink anyway.

[Smartie]

Good article from Tom English on the BBC site in which he compares the response from Chelsea to the racism of fans in Paris, and from West Ham in response to the anti-Semitism at the Spurs game, to the total inaction from the huns and the football authorities in Scotland to the sectarianism on display last Friday.

That did occur to me and I wondered if someone would bring that up.

It's not so long ago that people wouldn't cheer "black" goals in England and Mark Walters was pelted with bananas on making his debut in Scotland. Times have changed (so, so much for the better) and whilst you will still get the odd idiot behaving in an unacceptable manner the vast majority of people behave much better. I'd argue that football has been a superb medium for bringing people together through taking a "zero-tolerance" approach to racism.

Given their past "links" to idiot groups it was brilliant to see the approach Chelsea took. By the letter of the law could you say that Chelsea took all steps possible to prevent this happening on the train? Yep, you probably could. But they led by example, demonstrated an unwillingness to tolerate it and you won't see anything like that happen again for a while. As much as anything it sends out a message to the "decent" fans that they need to self-police too or they'll develop a reputation. Not good for their global brand to have this stuff beamed all over the world.

Now we all know that sectarianism is the The Rangers and Celtic brand. It's what links them all together and without it they'd be just another 2 average Scottish clubs.

I actually know a few decent followers of both clubs who don't like sectarianism and will bring their kids up supporting other teams. It's a shame that they are being forced out and the tolerance of this nonsense continues to prop these hideous clubs up.

Our authorities' response was really shown up by that of Chelsea.

[Glorious St Pat]

shame on them all....in 21st century Scotland as well......we're a wee country....with small ambitions..
It would be interesting to hear how hibs voted......

Well there are 42 clubs and only 5% voted yes - so two clubs?

Would clubs vote for possible points deductions and fines for their supporters poor behaviour? Would be like turkey's voting for Christmas...still a lack of ambition shown by the clubs and FA still.

[Turkish Green]

So UEFA can fine Celtic for crowd disturbances and impose playing behind closed doors on Steaua but the Scottish authorities cannot do anything about the sectarian singing of the majority of the Sevco away support.

Neil Doncaster - NOT FIT FOR PURPOSE

[Onion]

Good article from Tom English on the BBC site in which he compares the response from Chelsea to the racism of fans in Paris, and from West Ham in response to the anti-Semitism at the Spurs game, to the total inaction from the huns and the football authorities in Scotland to the sectarianism on display last Friday.

Compare and contrast the way Chelsea and West Ham reacted to supporters shaming their club with their untrammelled racism and the way Rangers behaved in the wake of sectarian chanting at Raith Rovers on Friday.
Chelsea issued a statement quickly after the footage was made public of their Neanderthal element refusing to allow a black man on the Paris metro while simultaneously singing of their pride in being racist.
The statement spoke of the club's "disgust" at what they saw on the film. They were "appalled" and they apologised unreservedly to the poor man who was subjected to this filth while committing themselves to their own investigation on top of the one that was being carried by the Metropolitan Police.
They suspended three fans. Later, Jose Mourinho, the Chelsea manager, said he was "ashamed". Through the club's press officer, Roman Abramovich, the owner, said he wanted to make it clear how disgusted and appalled he was. The chairman, Bruce Buck, met with the anti-racism group Kick It Out a few days after the incident.
Rangers fans against Raith Rovers
Rangers fans have found themselves in the spotlight for their singing at Stark's Park on Friday night
West Ham had their own problems over another video that appeared to show some fans racially taunting Spurs supporters en route to the London derby on Sunday. This time it was anti-Semitic abuse.
Like Chelsea before them, West Ham asked their own supporters to pass on any information they had about the guilty. West Ham emailed every one of their fans who had bought a ticket for the game to remind them they were all ambassadors for the club. They came across as a club that was serious about tackling this issue.
Ahead of the match, David Gold, the club's Jewish co-owner, tweeted a link to a powerful interview he did with The Guardian in which he spoke of how anti-Semitism was like a "dagger in the heart". Both of these clubs faced their crisis head-on.
And Rangers?
Not a peep from anybody inside Ibrox on Friday night, or Saturday, or Sunday, or Monday.

[CropleyWasGod]

So UEFA can fine Celtic for crowd disturbances and impose playing behind closed doors on Steaua but the Scottish authorities cannot do anything about the sectarian singing of the majority of the Sevco away support.

Neil Doncaster - NOT FIT FOR PURPOSE

Again, ND can only do what the clubs tell him to do.

It is significant, though, that there is to be a meeting of the SPFL next month to discuss the issue. There has probably been a backlash from some member clubs against recent events, and that's no bad thing.

[EdinMike]

I can already guess what will be the outcome of this meeting next month.

Diddly Squat.

Until they start acting on the vile, bile that these "fans" spew every week. Then nothing will be done. If they know they can get away with it without punishment they'll keep doing it.

Rinse and repeat.

[emerald green]

The thing about the Rangers supporters songs / chants is that they are BOTH sectarian and racist.

If anyone is familiar with the words of "The Famine Song" it is racist in every sense of the word. An absolute sickening and offensive song to anyone who is Irish, or has Irish ancestry.

[steakbake]

So UEFA can fine Celtic for crowd disturbances and impose playing behind closed doors on Steaua but the Scottish authorities cannot do anything about the sectarian singing of the majority of the Sevco away support.

Neil Doncaster - NOT FIT FOR PURPOSE

The pathetic refrain of "we've been punished enough" is probably an SFA catch phrase.

[Smartie]

I can already guess what will be the outcome of this meeting next month.

Diddly Squat.

Until they start acting on the vile, bile that these "fans" spew every week. Then nothing will be done. If they know they can get away with it without punishment they'll keep doing it.

Rinse and repeat.

It is important then that the fans of all the other clubs (and to be fair the decent fans of The Rangers and Celtic) raise their voices and make sure that "doing nothing" at this meeting is totally unacceptable.

We are the ones that are not taking our kids to games involving the OF because we don't want to subject them to this stuff. Anyone who has anything to do with Scottish football is guilty by association if we continue to allow this to be tolerated.

It is wrong to admit defeat on this one before a ball has been kicked.

[The Harp Awakes]

Statement from the Union of Fans in advance of the game with Falkirk:

"The Union of Fans would like to urge supporters to remember that their behaviour at the game on Friday night will once again be under intense scrutiny," the group said in a statement.
"The Rangers fans have been consistently excellent over the past few years and have attracted much deserved praise. It remains the case however that any slip will be highlighted whilst behaviour by fans of other clubs is largely ignored.
"Acts of defiance do not work. They do not shine the spotlight on the actions of others but merely turn it back on our fans. We are in a position of weakness and our club is an easy target. That will not always be the case.
"A tiny section of fans have let the club down recently by reverting to damaging behaviour which is not only illegal but tarnishes the club.
"Help us to challenge attempts to smear the club by giving those who seek to damage us no ammunition."

:faf::faf::faf:

Oh ma sides:greengrin

[Smartie]

Statement from the Union of Fans in advance of the game with Falkirk:

"The Union of Fans would like to urge supporters to remember that their behaviour at the game on Friday night will once again be under intense scrutiny," the group said in a statement.
"The Rangers fans have been consistently excellent over the past few years and have attracted much deserved praise. It remains the case however that any slip will be highlighted whilst behaviour by fans of other clubs is largely ignored.
"Acts of defiance do not work. They do not shine the spotlight on the actions of others but merely turn it back on our fans. We are in a position of weakness and our club is an easy target. That will not always be the case.
"A tiny section of fans have let the club down recently by reverting to damaging behaviour which is not only illegal but tarnishes the club.
"Help us to challenge attempts to smear the club by giving those who seek to damage us no ammunition."

:faf::faf::faf:

Oh ma sides:greengrin

There is a lot in there that is frankly laughable nonsense, but it is a language that might actually resonate with the huns and it may even get the desired result.

I don't really care how or why they stop singing their nonsense. The most important thing is that they stop singing it.

And whilst it is dripping with the usual hinted "whataboutery" it does acknowledge that they are not alone and that action should be taken on those that indulge in similar elsewhere i.e. Parkhead and Tynecastle. It is impossible to argue that this is indeed true.

It does demonstrate a quite hilariously deluded lack of self-awareness though.

[NAE NOOKIE]

Statement from the Union of Fans in advance of the game with Falkirk:

"The Union of Fans would like to urge supporters to remember that their behaviour at the game on Friday night will once again be under intense scrutiny," the group said in a statement.
"The Rangers fans have been consistently excellent over the past few years and have attracted much deserved praise. It remains the case however that any slip will be highlighted whilst behaviour by fans of other clubs is largely ignored.
"Acts of defiance do not work. They do not shine the spotlight on the actions of others but merely turn it back on our fans. We are in a position of weakness and our club is an easy target. That will not always be the case.
"A tiny section of fans have let the club down recently by reverting to damaging behaviour which is not only illegal but tarnishes the club.
"Help us to challenge attempts to smear the club by giving those who seek to damage us no ammunition."

:faf::faf::faf:

Oh ma sides:greengrin

Andex dinnae produce enough bog roll in a year to mop up the amount of Ertha Kitt they have managed to produce in that statement :lolrangers:

[Onion]

Statement from the Union of Fans in advance of the game with Falkirk:

"The Union of Fans would like to urge supporters to remember that their behaviour at the game on Friday night will once again be under intense scrutiny," the group said in a statement.
"The Rangers fans have been consistently excellent over the past few years and have attracted much deserved praise. It remains the case however that any slip will be highlighted whilst behaviour by fans of other clubs is largely ignored.
"Acts of defiance do not work. They do not shine the spotlight on the actions of others but merely turn it back on our fans. We are in a position of weakness and our club is an easy target. That will not always be the case.
"A tiny section of fans have let the club down recently by reverting to damaging behaviour which is not only illegal but tarnishes the club.
"Help us to challenge attempts to smear the club by giving those who seek to damage us no ammunition."

:faf::faf::faf:

Oh ma sides:greengrin


:greengrin Kind of stuff an exasperated social worker might use on a serial offender in a final, desperate attempt to get the wayward 14 year old to act like a ****ing adult :dummytit:

[WillowbraeHibby]

:greengrin Kind of stuff an exasperated social worker might use on a serial offender in a final, desperate attempt to get the wayward 14 year old to act like a ****ing adult :dummytit:

:agree:

[gringojoe]

At the end of the day huns will be huns.

[Pete]

The worrying thing is that they genuinely can't see themselves the way everyone else does.

Collymore said the game and media in this country was corrupt and he's spot on. As was Vladimir Romanov.

[Eyrie]

So both Sevco Huns and UoF want the chanting to stop only because it looks bad and not because it is wrong and offensive. Says it all.

[The_Sauz]

I f I'm reading you correctly I think what you are saying is making a stereotypical statement or generalisation that every police office has been or is in the Orange Order or Masonic Lodge. This made me laugh out loud btw!! I know loads of Cops and not one is or has been a member of either of the above.

I think you need to read it again and tell me where I said EVERY police officer is or has been in the lodge or the masons!
I think you are having a :doh: moment

[Phil D. Rolls]

Where exactly did this "much earned praise" emanate from? The Rangers News, Larkhall Advertiser, Daily Record, Chick Young?

I think we should be told.

[Aldo]

I think you need to read it again and tell me where I said EVERY police officer is or has been in the lodge or the masons! I think you are having a :doh: moment

Nope no doh moment! And thanks I read it just fine the first time.

[green&left]

See the huns are now lobbying the FM to try and ban/outlaw the term 'hun'.

Couldn't make it up with this lot. The ibrox circus continues. :greengrin

[21.05.2016]

Horrible horrible club. They can kid themselves all they like that their bigotry is "just a minority" but anyone with half a brain cell can see it's not.

As per usual though its swept under the carpet and ignored by the authorities :rolleyes:

[The Green Goblin]

I must admit that I have a certain sympathy with the Clubs and can understand the stance that they take.

Provided that they comply with all the Health & Safety requirements, employ the necessary number of Stewards and arrange for an adequate Police presence within the stadium then why should they be held accountable for the actions of fans? There's only so much that they can do and surely it's the responsibility of the Police and the justice system to ensure that law and order is maintained.

Numpties will always be numpties whether they are singing sectarian songs, letting off smoke bombs or hurling missiles on to the pitch from row ZZ of the stand.

I don't know what the answer is but neither the Clubs nor innocent fans should be made to suffer because of the actions of a few (or not so few as the case may be)

Good post. What's to stop say, a small group of people, even 10 would be enough, from going to another club's game and starting up all kinds of songs to deliberately get that club fined or docked points etc? And please don't tell me that people wouldn't stoop to that level. I agree that something has to be done. It's a stain on Scottish football and society, but we must also recognise that there is huge potential for clubs to be punished for things which are genuinely outwith their control, and for them to be targeted by people intent on causing trouble for them. My other issue with this idea is that I don't trust the powers that be to get it right when it comes to applying the rules evenly to all clubs. I suspect there would be disagreement over this song or that being classified as "sectarian" and things would get ugly pretty fast. We need to do something, but this is not the solution.

[lord bunberry]

Good post. What's to stop say, a small group of people, even 10 would be enough, from going to another club's game and starting up all kinds of songs to deliberately get that club fined or docked points etc? And please don't tell me that people wouldn't stoop to that level. I agree that something has to be done. It's a stain on Scottish football and society, but we must also recognise that there is huge potential for clubs to be punished for things which are genuinely outwith their control, and for them to be targeted by people intent on causing trouble for them. My other issue with this idea is that I don't trust the powers that be to get it right when it comes to applying the rules evenly to all clubs. I suspect there would be disagreement over this song or that being classified as "sectarian" and things would get ugly pretty fast. We need to do something, but this is not the solution.
Just because 10 people start singing a song it doesn't mean everyone else would join in. If someone started singing a song that was going to get the club deducted points they'd be more likely shouted down. If everyone did join in then the particular club would deserve the punishment.

[jacomo]

So both Sevco Huns and UoF want the chanting to stop only because it looks bad and not because it is wrong and offensive. Says it all.

And only because they are currently in a 'position of weakness'.

Presumably, once they are back to full strength they can sing what they like with impunity??

[jacomo]

Good post. What's to stop say, a small group of people, even 10 would be enough, from going to another club's game and starting up all kinds of songs to deliberately get that club fined or docked points etc? And please don't tell me that people wouldn't stoop to that level. I agree that something has to be done. It's a stain on Scottish football and society, but we must also recognise that there is huge potential for clubs to be punished for things which are genuinely outwith their control, and for them to be targeted by people intent on causing trouble for them. My other issue with this idea is that I don't trust the powers that be to get it right when it comes to applying the rules evenly to all clubs. I suspect there would be disagreement over this song or that being classified as "sectarian" and things would get ugly pretty fast. We need to do something, but this is not the solution.

Is there any evidence for this ever happening?

I accept that people might troll online pretending to be a Hun or whatever to discredit them, but attending a game pretending to be a supporter of another club? Never heard of this.

[jacomo]

See the huns are now lobbying the FM to try and ban/outlaw the term 'hun'.

Couldn't make it up with this lot. The ibrox circus continues. :greengrin

Nil by Mouth declared 'Hun' a sectarian term a few years ago. This was clearly a sop to the 'whataboutery' brigades, as it is nothing of the sort. It is a mildly pejorative term for Rangers supporters. And the Hearts support who adopt some of their ways.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

Nil by Mouth declared 'Hun' a sectarian term a few years ago. This was clearly a sop to the 'whataboutery' brigades, as it is nothing of the sort. It is a mildly pejorative term for Rangers supporters. And the Hearts support who adopt some of their ways.

I've never heard Hearts fans being called Huns. That's a new one for me.

[NAE NOOKIE]

Nil by Mouth declared 'Hun' a sectarian term a few years ago. This was clearly a sop to the 'whataboutery' brigades, as it is nothing of the sort. It is a mildly pejorative term for Rangers supporters. And the Hearts support who adopt some of their ways.

I had a long E Mail conversation with Nil by Mouth on this very subject a few years ago. Hun is in no way a sectarian term and just because it is applied to a bunch of morons who are themselves sectarian doesn't make it so.

[Peevemor]

I've never heard Hearts fans being called Huns. That's a new one for me.

Mini-huns, diet huns, huns without the busfare ...

[The_Exile]

I've never heard Hearts fans being called Huns. That's a new one for me.

I've heard them described as "Huns without the bus fare" :greengrin

Edit: Too slow, Peevemor beat me to it. My own personal nicknames for them are merricks, yaks, savilles and turdshirts.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

Mini-huns, diet huns, huns without the busfare ...

Aye, right enough. doh!

[JimBHibees]

And only because they are currently in a 'position of weakness'.

Presumably, once they are back to full strength they can sing what they like with impunity??

For a club in a supposed position of weakness they seem to still have incredible power and influence.

[kaimendhibs]

Bet BT have the mikes switched off tonight in Sevco end!

[hibsbollah]

See the huns are now lobbying the FM to try and ban/outlaw the term 'hun'.

Couldn't make it up with this lot. The ibrox circus continues. :greengrin

As I've posted previously, 'hun' is indeed used as a sectarian insult in ulster. In that respect they have a point and Nil By Mouth are clear on that.

The fact they are using it as a piece of diversion from their own vile behaviour comes as no surprise mind you.

[hibsbollah]

Hun is in no way a sectarian term.

Im afraid it is. The fact you (and I, when ive used it) probably didn't mean any offence by it doesn't change that.

[Joe Baker II]

With regard to not taking children to games as per an earlier comment and having attended the recent Rangers Hibs game at Ibrox in the Rangers end (well done Petrie/Dempster for failing to secure the needed number of tickets in a 1/3 entry stadium and shows the lack of interest you have in Hibs fans but that is another debate) several comments arise:

1. There was no audible offensive singing other than “Jimmy Saville, he’s one of your own” a petty gloat about child abuse at Celtic (and arguably a sectarian song, given the implication about senior Catholic Church figures role in this).

2. The vast majority of the chanting was about the Board (which disgracefully got more attention from police/stewards than the Saville chant btw) and there were some non-offensive songs associated with Ulster/Scots Protestantism such as Derry’s Walls and God Save the Queen. I know there may have been more from the 1-200 Rangers fans in close proximity to the away support where wind ups often attempted that I couldn’t hear but given “There’s only one Mike Ashley” was clearly audible Hibs fans are not really in a position to complain.

3. But given I am about to start considering when to take my 4 year old boy to games, I am more concerned about the sexual abuse chants; I can explain to my son/wife why the history of conflict in Ireland leads millions (whether they sing them themselves or not) to identify with even the more contentious of these songs but will have serious difficulty being able to explain songs celebrating child abuse, which from recent evidence is a bigger problem at Ibrox (as opposed to the minority of the minority of the 2-3000 Rangers fans who go to away games. Happily it is beneath Hibs fans to stoop to this gutter level but I am conscious it will be audible from other sets of fans, not just Old Firm btw.

4. Can’t help thinking police/SNP are delighted at recent incidents at Raith given at last some serious political backing to treating football supporters decently by selling alcohol at games; a side-effect of which might actually be to incentivise more effective self-policing of genuinely offensive chants, while football supporters are treated like animals by authorities and many fear complaining about offensive songs will lead to arrest/ejection there is zero incentive to self-police.

[southsider]

Im afraid it is. The fact you (and I, when ive used it) probably didn't mean any offence by it doesn't change that.
So we can't sing "go home ya huns " anymore ? How about "go home ya bums" ? Nice ring to it eh. lol

[Kavinho]

With regard to not taking children to games as per an earlier comment and having attended the recent Rangers Hibs game at Ibrox in the Rangers end (well done Petrie/Dempster for failing to secure the needed number of tickets in a 1/3 entry stadium and shows the lack of interest you have in Hibs fans but that is another debate) several comments arise:



1. There was no audible offensive singing other than “Jimmy Saville, he’s one of your own” a petty gloat about child abuse at Celtic (and arguably a sectarian song, given the implication about senior Catholic Church figures role in this).

2. The vast majority of the chanting was about the Board (which disgracefully got more attention from police/stewards than the Saville chant btw) and there were some non-offensive songs associated with Ulster/Scots Protestantism such as Derry’s Walls and God Save the Queen. I know there may have been more from the 1-200 Rangers fans in close proximity to the away support where wind ups often attempted that I couldn’t hear but given “There’s only one Mike Ashley” was clearly audible Hibs fans are not really in a position to complain.

3. But given I am about to start considering when to take my 4 year old boy to games, I am more concerned about the sexual abuse chants; I can explain to my son/wife why the history of conflict in Ireland leads millions (whether they sing them themselves or not) to identify with even the more contentious of these songs but will have serious difficulty being able to explain songs celebrating child abuse, which from recent evidence is a bigger problem at Ibrox (as opposed to the minority of the minority of the 2-3000 Rangers fans who go to away games. Happily it is beneath Hibs fans to stoop to this gutter level but I am conscious it will be audible from other sets of fans, not just Old Firm btw.

4. Can’t help thinking police/SNP are delighted at recent incidents at Raith given at last some serious political backing to treating football supporters decently by selling alcohol at games; a side-effect of which might actually be to incentivise more effective self-policing of genuinely offensive chants, while football supporters are treated like animals by authorities and many fear complaining about offensive songs will lead to arrest/ejection there is zero incentive to self-police.

Re 3, I seriously doubt your 4 year old will have the mental capacity to follow your explanations of the history of political and religious conflict in Ireland.



You be better just saying bad songs sung by bad men!

[Smartie]

With regard to not taking children to games as per an earlier comment and having attended the recent Rangers Hibs game at Ibrox in the Rangers end (well done Petrie/Dempster for failing to secure the needed number of tickets in a 1/3 entry stadium and shows the lack of interest you have in Hibs fans but that is another debate) several comments arise:

1. There was no audible offensive singing other than “Jimmy Saville, he’s one of your own” a petty gloat about child abuse at Celtic (and arguably a sectarian song, given the implication about senior Catholic Church figures role in this).

2. The vast majority of the chanting was about the Board (which disgracefully got more attention from police/stewards than the Saville chant btw) and there were some non-offensive songs associated with Ulster/Scots Protestantism such as Derry’s Walls and God Save the Queen. I know there may have been more from the 1-200 Rangers fans in close proximity to the away support where wind ups often attempted that I couldn’t hear but given “There’s only one Mike Ashley” was clearly audible Hibs fans are not really in a position to complain.

3. But given I am about to start considering when to take my 4 year old boy to games, I am more concerned about the sexual abuse chants; I can explain to my son/wife why the history of conflict in Ireland leads millions (whether they sing them themselves or not) to identify with even the more contentious of these songs but will have serious difficulty being able to explain songs celebrating child abuse, which from recent evidence is a bigger problem at Ibrox (as opposed to the minority of the minority of the 2-3000 Rangers fans who go to away games. Happily it is beneath Hibs fans to stoop to this gutter level but I am conscious it will be audible from other sets of fans, not just Old Firm btw.

4. Can’t help thinking police/SNP are delighted at recent incidents at Raith given at last some serious political backing to treating football supporters decently by selling alcohol at games; a side-effect of which might actually be to incentivise more effective self-policing of genuinely offensive chants, while football supporters are treated like animals by authorities and many fear complaining about offensive songs will lead to arrest/ejection there is zero incentive to self-police.

Regarding point 3, I take it you've not been to a derby at Tynecastle for a while? I wouldn't say that it it's below us to stoop to that level but given that football hasn't been sanitised completely (yet) I don't think that it is unreasonable for us to point out their habit as a club of tolerating child sex offenders.

Tin hat on but I actually think that things have improved a bit at Ibrox in recent years (even the old club pre-liquidation) and it is interesting to hear from you what it was like to sit amongst them. Just think what it would have been like to have been in that old Main Stand enclosure 20-30 years ago. Whilst God Save the Queen and Rule Britannia (I don't have the first idea what Derry's walls is about although surely it should be Londonderry's walls if they are singing it?) and the likes may not be exactly to our taste they aren't in themselves bigoted songs and they have every right to sing them. It's the fenian blood stuff and the "No pope of rome" nonsense that needs to be eradicated. And there should be a zero-tolerance policy regarding it.

[NAE NOOKIE]

Im afraid it is. The fact you (and I, when ive used it) probably didn't mean any offence by it doesn't change that.

Its not sectarian just because Nil By Mouth decide it is Hibsbollah. I am aware that there is a number of pieces on the internet supporting the Nil by Mouth contention that it is, including by the legal profession. But in my opinion if you go down the road of categorising a word as sectarian just because its aimed at Rangers supporters we might as well all pack up and go home.

I highly doubt any Hibs supporter who has used the term in the last 30 years had any sectarian agenda in mind, as you yourself said. Lets face it the Huns who rampaged through Europe in the first few centuries AD were not as far as I am aware affiliated to any religious group and as far as I know the term is aimed at the Current Buns because a visit from their supporters is likely to result in carnage and anti social behaviour like in Manchester.

Nasty insults fly between different groups of fitba fans all the time and as I said, just because the term is aimed at a club noted for its bigotry shouldn't make the term itself bigoted. An insult yes, sectarian no. Not in my opinion.

Look at it this way. If I work beside a black guy and he is a pain in the erchie and I say hey mate yer a bloody 'tool' does that mean the word tool becomes racist because the guy is black?

[Phil D. Rolls]

Its not sectarian just because Nil By Mouth decide it is Hibsbollah. I am aware that there is a number of pieces on the internet supporting the Nil by Mouth contention that it is, including by the legal profession. But in my opinion if you go down the road of categorising a word as sectarian just because its aimed at Rangers supporters we might as well all pack up and go home.

I highly doubt any Hibs supporter who has used the term in the last 30 years had any sectarian agenda in mind, as you yourself said. Lets face it the Huns who rampaged through Europe in the first few centuries AD were not as far as I am aware affiliated to any religious group and as far as I know the term is aimed at the Current Buns because a visit from their supporters is likely to result in carnage and anti social behaviour like in Manchester.

Nasty insults fly between different groups of fitba fans all the time and as I said, just because the term is aimed at a club noted for its bigotry shouldn't make the term itself bigoted. An insult yes, sectarian no. Not in my opinion.

Look at it this way. If I work beside a black guy and he is a pain in the erchie and I say hey mate yer a bloody 'tool' does that mean the word tool becomes racist because the guy is black?

Well said. by Nil by mouths definition any disparaging remark about the OF is sectarian. So, we won't be able to call them the ugly sisters any more.

[lord bunberry]

Well said. by Nil by mouths definition any disparaging remark about the OF is sectarian. So, we won't be able to call them the ugly sisters any more.
Has the word Hun ever been attributed to a religious group? I'm not aware of it if there is and Rangers certainly aren't a religion, so how can it be sectarian.

[hibsbollah]

Its not sectarian just because Nil By Mouth decide it is Hibsbollah. I am aware that there is a number of pieces on the internet supporting the Nil by Mouth contention that it is, including by the legal profession. But in my opinion if you go down the road of categorising a word as sectarian just because its aimed at Rangers supporters we might as well all pack up and go home.

I highly doubt any Hibs supporter who has used the term in the last 30 years had any sectarian agenda in mind, as you yourself said. Lets face it the Huns who rampaged through Europe in the first few centuries AD were not as far as I am aware affiliated to any religious group and as far as I know the term is aimed at the Current Buns because a visit from their supporters is likely to result in carnage and anti social behaviour like in Manchester.

Nasty insults fly between different groups of fitba fans all the time and as I said, just because the term is aimed at a club noted for its bigotry shouldn't make the term itself bigoted. An insult yes, sectarian no. Not in my opinion.

Look at it this way. If I work beside a black guy and he is a pain in the erchie and I say hey mate yer a bloody 'tool' does that mean the word tool becomes racist because the guy is black?

As ive already said, there was a recent radio 4 programme about modern day ulster, and the Catholic guy being interviewed was described as being a 'hun lover' and was ostracised by his community for having a proddy girlfriend. It obviously wasnt in a football context, hence the word definitely exists, in a non football, sectarian context. Nil by Mouth is right, although it might be convenient for us who despise Rangers (and I certainly do) to think otherwise.

I don't want this issue to detract from the OP, which is Rangers; the source of the only significant sectarian poison in the game in this country.

[NAE NOOKIE]

As ive already said, there was a recent radio 4 programme about modern day ulster, and the Catholic guy being interviewed was described as being a 'hun lover' and was ostracised by his community for having a proddy girlfriend. It obviously wasnt in a football context, hence the word definitely exists, in a non football, sectarian context. Nil by Mouth is right, although it might be convenient for us who despise Rangers (and I certainly do) to think otherwise.

Chicken & egg though H ... Was the word lifted from Scottish football? I suppose we had all better get acquainted with the vocabulary of Northern Ireland then just in case. I hope 'Flange' husnae been hijacked, its one of my favourites.

As a wee aside:

In the Borders folk frae Gala get called 'Pailmerks' and folk frae Selkirk get called 'Japs' ..... lets hope naebody tells Nil by Mouth :greengrin

[hibsbollah]

Chicken & egg though H ... Was the word lifted from Scottish football? I suppose we had all better get acquainted with the vocabulary of Northern Ireland then just in case. I hope 'Flange' husnae been hijacked, its one of my favourites.

As a wee aside:

In the Borders folk frae Gala get called 'Pailmerks' and folk frae Selkirk get called 'Japs' ..... lets hope naebody tells Nil by Mouth :greengrin



I still intend to use the h word when talking about the football team, so im a hypocrite anyway:whistle:

[NAE NOOKIE]

I still intend to use the h word when talking about the football team, so im a hypocrite anyway:whistle:

:greengrin

I quite like Zombie mind.

[lord bunberry]

14451

[theonlywayisup]

14451

Didn't know that. Is that a true story?

[lord bunberry]

Didn't know that. Is that a true story?
I don't know it was on my Facebook page. I can't think of another reason why they would be called that.

[Glorious St Pat]

Has the word Hun ever been attributed to a religious group? I'm not aware of it if there is and Rangers certainly aren't a religion, so how can it be sectarian.

Hunnish Hun behaviour....nope to me it describes them perfectly. Call me a bigot if you will....but many on here do!!

[NAE NOOKIE]

14451

We must investigate further.

[NAE NOOKIE]

Hunnish Hun behaviour....nope to me it describes them perfectly. Call me a bigot if you will....but many on here do!!

Bigot :cb

[pacorosssco]

As ive already said, there was a recent radio 4 programme about modern day ulster, and the Catholic guy being interviewed was described as being a 'hun lover' and was ostracised by his community for having a proddy girlfriend. It obviously wasnt in a football context, hence the word definitely exists, in a non football, sectarian context. Nil by Mouth is right, although it might be convenient for us who despise Rangers (and I certainly do) to think otherwise.

I don't want this issue to detract from the OP, which is Rangers; the source of the only significant sectarian poison in the game in this country.

its not rangers its sevco:wink:. both celtic and rangers quickly appeal to the week minded. i find its the ones in edinburgh and outside glasgow that are the worst. every support has them but these clubs are now built on the back of identity to a flag/religon they dont practise. Ironically how many Celtic fans do you think attended catholic school? id say less than a third of those attending games, less than ten percent watchin on box. hunbelievable

[BoomtownHibees]

With regard to not taking children to games as per an earlier comment and having attended the recent Rangers Hibs game at Ibrox in the Rangers end (well done Petrie/Dempster for failing to secure the needed number of tickets in a 1/3 entry stadium and shows the lack of interest you have in Hibs fans but that is another debate) several comments arise:

1. There was no audible offensive singing other than “Jimmy Saville, he’s one of your own” a petty gloat about child abuse at Celtic (and arguably a sectarian song, given the implication about senior Catholic Church figures role in this).

2. The vast majority of the chanting was about the Board (which disgracefully got more attention from police/stewards than the Saville chant btw) and there were some non-offensive songs associated with Ulster/Scots Protestantism such as Derry’s Walls and God Save the Queen. I know there may have been more from the 1-200 Rangers fans in close proximity to the away support where wind ups often attempted that I couldn’t hear but given “There’s only one Mike Ashley” was clearly audible Hibs fans are not really in a position to complain.

3. But given I am about to start considering when to take my 4 year old boy to games, I am more concerned about the sexual abuse chants; I can explain to my son/wife why the history of conflict in Ireland leads millions (whether they sing them themselves or not) to identify with even the more contentious of these songs but will have serious difficulty being able to explain songs celebrating child abuse, which from recent evidence is a bigger problem at Ibrox (as opposed to the minority of the minority of the 2-3000 Rangers fans who go to away games. Happily it is beneath Hibs fans to stoop to this gutter level but I am conscious it will be audible from other sets of fans, not just Old Firm btw.

4. Can’t help thinking police/SNP are delighted at recent incidents at Raith given at last some serious political backing to treating football supporters decently by selling alcohol at games; a side-effect of which might actually be to incentivise more effective self-policing of genuinely offensive chants, while football supporters are treated like animals by authorities and many fear complaining about offensive songs will lead to arrest/ejection there is zero incentive to self-police.

Quite a bit of nonsense in this post, especially the bit about it being Petrie/Dempsters fault that we weren't given more tickets.

And are you really comparing "Derry's Walls" (Surrender or you'll die) to "there's only one Mike Ashley"??

[NadeAteMyLunch!]

The term 'hun' is not sectarian. Not really bothered what Nil by mouth says. Rangers fans try to play that card as its all they have. Well that and constantly reminding everyone that Celtic are as bad. Fast forward twenty years and they may be trying to get 'zombie' and 'Sevco' classified as sectarian. Not because they are sectarian terms but because they don't like being called those things

[spike220]

To answer the OP. I think being The Rangers is punishment enough!

[truehibernian]

To answer the OP. I think being The Rangers is punishment enough!

Don't know if it was a slip, but anyone hear Dougie Vipond at the end of the football yesterday refer to them correctly as The Rangers.......from now on media and messageboards should be referring to them as 'The Rangers'.......it annoys them and I like that :greengrin :aok:

[NAE NOOKIE]

With regard to not taking children to games as per an earlier comment and having attended the recent Rangers Hibs game at Ibrox in the Rangers end (well done Petrie/Dempster for failing to secure the needed number of tickets in a 1/3 entry stadium and shows the lack of interest you have in Hibs fans but that is another debate) several comments arise:

1. There was no audible offensive singing other than “Jimmy Saville, he’s one of your own” a petty gloat about child abuse at Celtic (and arguably a sectarian song, given the implication about senior Catholic Church figures role in this).

2. The vast majority of the chanting was about the Board (which disgracefully got more attention from police/stewards than the Saville chant btw) and there were some non-offensive songs associated with Ulster/Scots Protestantism such as Derry’s Walls and God Save the Queen. I know there may have been more from the 1-200 Rangers fans in close proximity to the away support where wind ups often attempted that I couldn’t hear but given “There’s only one Mike Ashley” was clearly audible Hibs fans are not really in a position to complain.

3. But given I am about to start considering when to take my 4 year old boy to games, I am more concerned about the sexual abuse chants; I can explain to my son/wife why the history of conflict in Ireland leads millions (whether they sing them themselves or not) to identify with even the more contentious of these songs but will have serious difficulty being able to explain songs celebrating child abuse, which from recent evidence is a bigger problem at Ibrox (as opposed to the minority of the minority of the 2-3000 Rangers fans who go to away games. Happily it is beneath Hibs fans to stoop to this gutter level but I am conscious it will be audible from other sets of fans, not just Old Firm btw.

4. Can’t help thinking police/SNP are delighted at recent incidents at Raith given at last some serious political backing to treating football supporters decently by selling alcohol at games; a side-effect of which might actually be to incentivise more effective self-policing of genuinely offensive chants, while football supporters are treated like animals by authorities and many fear complaining about offensive songs will lead to arrest/ejection there is zero incentive to self-police.

Yer havin' a laugh mate right?

Its well documented that Hibs asked The Rangers for more tickets and they said no at which the club made its annoyance known and apologised to the fans. But more than that I simply cannot believe that any Hibs supporter would post such a comment aimed at Leeann Dempster .... where have you been living for the last 9 months, the Moon?

In the short time she has been here LD has shown more regard for the supporters of this club than just about anybody involved in running it in my near 40 years as an active supporter. It may be a small thing, but here's a measure of the woman: For years smokers like me have moaned to the club to let us out for a fag at half time, that in conjunction with fans rightly complaining about folk smoking in the toilets. The club in the most bloody minded fashion ignored the obvious solution ... LD is in the door 5 minutes and the problem is solved to everybodies satisfaction. The woman is class.

As for 'there's only one Mike Ashley' If you are trying to justify a load of sectarian bile and missile throwing as a proper response to what is nothing more than the type of mickey taking you would find at any football match between rival fans you are wrong mate.

[Keith_M]

Blah, blah, drivel, drivel..... (and other cr*p)


Gie's peace mate and go back to Follow Follow where you belong

[green&left]

Hun given a 4 month sentence for singing the Billy Boys enroute to the league cup semi-final with an 18 month football banning order. (STV News just now)

[Jim44]

Hun given a 4 month sentence for singing the Billy Boys enroute to the league cup semi-final with an 18 month banning order.

What's that in real money?

[JimBHibees]

Hun given a 4 month sentence for singing the Billy Boys enroute to the league cup semi-final with an 18 month football banning order. (STV News just now)

Good

[HibsMax]

I don't know how much of the US news makes it over the pond but did anyone read about this (http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/11/us/oklahoma-racist-chant/index.html)?

Rangers have had issues with bigoted fans for decades but seem unable to do anything about it (and since they "tried" they get off with it). Meanwhile, some college kids sing a racist ditty and all hell breaks loose. I do realise that OU story was helped by a cell phone video but with CCTV there's no way that Rangers can't know who is doing what, they're just not motivated to do anything about it. Their fan's behaviour, when it crosses the line, should be front page news every time until the situation is taken seriously.

[Jack Hackett]

No punishment for the rangers, but the fans are slowly being reeled in

http://www.scotsman.com/news/scotland/top-stories/engineering-boss-guilty-of-sectarian-train-chant-1-3716460

Is there a single the rangers fan with a shred of dignity? Stick it up your arse indeed :greengrin

[CockneyRebel]

Joe Baker II are you Lord Longford in disguise - making excuses and defending those knobheads, you are a sad sad person. If this behaviour was taking place in the EPL it would have been stopped years ago because even though the FA are far from perfect they are not afraid of taking action regardless of the size of clubs involved or the size of their support. The SFA are spineless, toothless jessies who should hang their heads in shame. Scottish football is stuck in the past and won't change until this bigotry is punished and banished.

[Sylar]

Joe Baker II are you Lord Longford in disguise - making excuses and defending those knobheads, you are a sad sad person. If this behaviour was taking place in the EPL it would have been stopped years ago because even though the FA are far from perfect they are not afraid of taking action regardless of the size of clubs involved or the size of their support. The SFA are spineless, toothless jessies who should hang their heads in shame. Scottish football is stuck in the past and won't change until this bigotry is punished and banished.

The continued chanting of anti-semitic songs toward Tottenham fans from both West Ham and Chelsea fans suggests otherwise!

I agree with your wider point right enough - until the SFA show willing to stand up to those who steer the ships at Ibrox and Parkhead, nothing is going to change. Having said that, I don't know what the answer is - as soon as the SFA introduce competition bans or points deductions for sectarian singing etc (unlikely, I know), you'd start to see sabotage. Assuming that such threats stopped The Rangers and Celtc fans from singing their bile (again, unlikely, I know), you'd start to see a flux of fans infiltrating into Parkhead/Ibrox etc etc and singing this nonsense to get the other club done.

[Spike Mandela]

Not a cheep in the media about massive UVF banner at their hard fought draw against Livi.....

14536

14537

[KeithTheHibby]

Not a cheep in the media about massive UVF banner at their hard fought draw against Livi.....

14536

14537

Polis and stewards doing a lot to remove it I notice.

Vermin the lot of them.

[Jim44]

Polis and stewards doing a lot to remove it I notice.

Vermin the lot of them.

The police and stewards are actually frightened of them.

[southsider]

Someone might try sending that filth about a set of murdering **** to the SFA

[silverhibee]

Polis and stewards doing a lot to remove it I notice.

Vermin the lot of them.


how did they get it in the ground in the first place.

Of course The Rangers, Scottish Police are doing everything to stop this kind of stuff.

We should be making it quite clear at our next game against them how much of a despicable club they are, lets get a few banners made up, "Scotlands Shame" "SFA, Feared of the Bigots",, force the press/media in to highlighting that they are still pedalling this nonsense and when are the SFA going to stand up to them. FFS it is 2015.

[Spike Mandela]

how did they get it in the ground in the first place.

Of course The Rangers, Scottish Police are doing everything to stop this kind of stuff.

We should be making it quite clear at our next game against them how much of a despicable club they are, lets get a few banners made up, "Scotlands Shame" "SFA, Feared of the Bigots",, force the press/media in to highlighting that they are still pedalling this nonsense and when are the SFA going to stand up to them. FFS it is 2015.

Bet you wouldn't be allowed to take banners in.

[Slim Shady]

Should get all supporters who own a mobile phone to record the sectarian singing. Then send it via a complaint to police scotland / sfa / media.

Surely if enough complaints are made by members of the public they need to act.

The game will be covered by television but as usual the tv companies turn down the microphones to drown out the signing. This was very evident in the recent Falkirk V The Rangers match a few Fridays ago.

FWIW - I detest seeing idiots in our support that bring a tricolour only to Rangers / Hearts games. No place for it at Easter Road.

[Deansy]

Not a cheep in the media about massive UVF banner at their hard fought draw against Livi.....

14536

14537

How the ***** was this not in the media ??. (Well, to the best of my knowledge, anyway) That's a disgrace - if ever confirmation was required THEY are being 'looked after' by certain people, this is it !!. Wonder what C4's Alex Thomson would make of it ................

[Sir David Gray]

Not a cheep in the media about massive UVF banner at their hard fought draw against Livi.....

14536

14537

How come it's taken me until Monday night to hear about this, and on a Hibs fansite too!?

It's quite incredible that we can have two football clubs in this country, whose fans regularly show support for terrorist groups, and we hear almost nothing from the Scottish media about it.

What has a UVF song got to do with Scottish football?

[truehibernian]

How come it's taken me until Monday night to hear about this, and on a Hibs fansite too!?

It's quite incredible that we can have two football clubs in this country, whose fans regularly show support for terrorist groups, and we hear almost nothing from the Scottish media about it.

What has a UVF song got to do with Scottish football?

It should be e-mailed to every media outlet and Mr Neil Doncaster too - after all he did say clubs had to show they were doing everything in their power to prevent it.......a stadium has club officials present game time, a security manager, league official, stewards in and out of the stadium, a police match commander, CCTV in the ground, club manager, club captain.........if none have done anything to have that removed immediately, IN their own ground, then they have failed on all counts, all levels - points deduction and transfer ban for the bigots and terrorist sympathisers please :agree::aok: only way they will learn :agree:

[cabbageandribs1875]

terrorist supporting cowardly murderous s*um...vile institution

[Deansy]

It should be e-mailed to every media outlet and Mr Neil Doncaster too - after all he did say clubs had to show they were doing everything in their power to prevent it.......a stadium has club officials present game time, a security manager, league official, stewards in and out of the stadium, a police match commander, CCTV in the ground, club manager, club captain.........if none have done anything to have that removed immediately, IN their own ground, then they have failed on all counts, all levels - points deduction and transfer ban for the bigots and terrorist sympathisers please :agree::aok: only way they will learn :agree:


'THEY' have no intention of doing anything whatsoever - any attempts to do so would threaten their No.1 money-maker - Religious-bigotry and Sectarianism !!

[silverhibee]

Bet you wouldn't be allowed to take banners in.

Why.?

[Spike Mandela]

Why.?

Never used o be allowed to display 'provocative' banners at ER, has that changed?

[NAE NOOKIE]

Not a cheep in the media about massive UVF banner at their hard fought draw against Livi.....

14536

14537

Lifted directly from a song supporting the UVF then. Oh we never knew will be the excuse and it will be ignored 'again' !!!

[silverhibee]

Never used o be allowed to display 'provocative' banners at ER, has that changed?

http://pbs.twimg.com/media/BFCCogYCEAAegyw.jpg:large

And if we are allowed to do it at darkheid then i don't see the problem at ER, is this a club policy thing as it can't be down to the police as they all work under the same banner. :greengrin

http://i.imgur.com/mMnUHRL.png

[Pete]

Lifted directly from a song supporting the UVF then. Oh we never knew will be the excuse and it will be ignored 'again' !!!

I can't see any mention of Celtic's clearly audible sectarian singing during the cup final anywhere. Absolutely nowhere.

Is this where we are at now? "Ach well"?

Every club should be signing up to rules that directly punish clubs for this. I don't know why we don't as there will only be two clear losers.

In fact, the law of the land should be stepping in here. If I owned a chain of pubs that basically turned a blind eye while its punters promoted terrorism I would be shut down immediately. I don't want to hear or see any of that stuff at a football match.

Others must look upon us as this backward, twisted little country that revels in bigotry. The media and football authorities are making us a laughing stock and it's as if everyone else is either too scared to do anything or doesn't see the point in trying.

[NAE NOOKIE]

http://pbs.twimg.com/media/BFCCogYCEAAegyw.jpg:large

And if we are allowed to do it at darkheid then i don't see the problem at ER, is this a club policy thing as it can't be down to the police as they all work under the same banner. :greengrin

http://i.imgur.com/mMnUHRL.png

If we make that cup final against the lesser Greens that should be made into a proper huge surfer.

Hibernian 1875 Originals
First to wear the Green.
Beware of cheap imitations.
:greengrin