Isis brides.

[Jim44]

What's all the fuss and concern about the three Muslim girls going out to join the terrorists and fight their cause. It's not as if they're being coerced into going and we are told they are intelligent young women. They have made a conscious decision to side with ruthless murderers and criminals and as far as I'm concerned the longer they are away from this country the better. Yes, I agree that young people should be educated against and protected from terrorism but once they have chosen their fate let them get on with it, away from our shores. Hard-hearted perhaps and a tragedy for their families but the thought of anyone siding with evil turns my stomach. I hope Cameron's resolve to prevent this growing trend is equalled by a resolve to stop them from ever returning to Britain to cause havoc.

[Colr]

Good riddance to them.

[Pete]

What's all the fuss and concern about the three Muslim girls going out to join the terrorists and fight their cause. It's not as if they're being coerced into going and we are told they are intelligent young women. They have made a conscious decision to side with ruthless murderers and criminals and as far as I'm concerned the longer they are away from this country the better. Yes, I agree that young people should be educated against and protected from terrorism but once they have chosen their fate let them get on with it, away from our shores. Hard-hearted perhaps and a tragedy for their families but the thought of anyone siding with evil turns my stomach. I hope Cameron's resolve to prevent this growing trend is equalled by a resolve to stop them from ever returning to Britain to cause havoc.

The only thing in their defence is that they are very young and therefore impressionable.

Other than that...**** every one of them who goes off to fight for Islamic state or become a jihadi bride. How do these girls feel about the treatment their heroes are dishing out to yazidi females? They no doubt share the same crackpot theories.

I don't care what anyone says, we should be stripping these people of their citizenship. Letting them come back and face our justice system means they will probably be released back into our community in a few years. Once you go and join them you abandon our way of life entirely. Beheadings, rape, mutilation and slaughter in the name of some God is not compatible with the way we live.

This is a serious problem and we need to adopt a zero tolerance approach. Libertarian, touchy freely pish won't work this time.

[Sylar]

Fifteen year old Muslim girls won't be treated with ANY respect when they get out there - that's not how the ISIS interpretation of the Qur'an works.

They'll likely earn up with bombs strapped to them, "martyrs to the cause" - I'd echo the 'good riddance' sentiment if it weren't for the galling reality that they'll probably take innocent lives with them.

Stripping of citizenship is a tricky one - I can see why most people want to see it happen but there are all sorts of issues/legalities surrounding it, not least so the families who remain in the UK. I do agree that paltry prison sentences that enable these people to return to society promptly aren't a satisfactory deterrent though. If these people harbour anti-Western ideologies and are willing to fight for a group of people who don't value principles of decency or humanity, happily ready to kill/die for their cause, they should be locked up for life...

Hopefully most of those who elect to leave to go and fight for ISIS choose not to come back and end up with an appropriate fate befalling them.

[hibsbollah]

It goes without saying that anyone who chooses to volunteer for an organisation that beheads civilians as a policy choice is either brainwashed or just evil.

I have to wonder how this news is being packaged to us though.

12 months ago the narrative was 'Syria=Baddie is Assad, Good guys are plucky rebels including isis and islamist elements, UK fighters from Luton or Birmingham going to Syria are misguided do gooders trying to get rid of Assad, but need to get better advice so as not to get into dangerous situations'.

Now the narrative is 'Syria= Home of Islamic state, nutters who behead people who need stopped at all cost. Assad:who? UK fighters going to Syria: psychopathic lunatics. Deport em all or just lock em up if they show any interest in travelling to the region'.

I'm sure a lot of people who go to Syria and Iraq to fight do so for the best of intentions and get entangled in something else. But because of the shi'ite mainstream news coverage I don't really have a clue what the reality is over there and I suspect nobody else on here does either. Its the same with a lot ofconflicts.

Edit...The BBC is going downhill in my opinion. But FOOC is still a good source of international news.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/podcasts/series/fooc

[Gatecrasher]

It annoys me that the "system" gets blamed for failing these people, how about their parents take some of the blame?

[hibsbollah]

It annoys me that the "system" gets blamed for failing these people, how about their parents take some of the blame?

I bet its all based on internet traffic, so the parents wont have a clue in most cases. I don't know for sure what my kids look at online.

[Gatecrasher]

I bet its all based on internet traffic, so the parents wont have a clue in most cases. I don't know for sure what my kids look at online.
Maybe so but to expect the government to track the moves of 65 million people is ridiculous, and if they did there would be a similar outcry regarding the government spying on us.

[Sylar]

Maybe so but to expect the government to track the moves of 65 million people is ridiculous, and if they did there would be a similar outcry regarding the government spying on us.

I think the case is a bit stronger in this particular instance but I agree with your wider point.

The reports suggest the girls were in direct contact with someone who was known to be out there and I dare say the authorities are probably monitoring online activity of those they know that have left the UK to join ISIS.

Theresa May will be using this to pour more fuel on the fire of her Online Communications Bill that she's trying to get through the HoC, which is nothing more than a British Patriot Act.

[johnbc70]

Don't see what all the fuss is about. Their choice so farewell to them. If they are that way inclined then probably a good thing they have left before they did some damage here.

[Phil D. Rolls]

It annoys me that the "system" gets blamed for failing these people, how about their parents take some of the blame?

So, I take it there is no leeway for debating whether anybody has been let down?

Edit: I take your point that the families are trying to dodge their own role in this.

We live in a free society, where people are supposed to be able to follow their conscience and have the right to make their own decisions. We then cry "foul" when somebody makes a decisions that goes against the prevailing definition of decency. It appears clear from our media that they have done the wrong thing, ie pick the wrong side in this conflict.

If Mosley had got his own way in the 30s, many of those who returned from the Spanish Civil War would have been in jail. Instead there are war memorials to them, and they are revered as heroes, providing they were on the right side.

I think what the girls have done is horrible. However, I am getting sick of the way our news is nothing more than a propaganda machine. Put the newsreaders voices up half an octave, and play patriotic orchestral music in the background, and it might as well be Pathe or Movietone doing the broadcast.

There was a story a couple of months back about an ex squaddie who had built a bomb in his bedroom. I think he came from Salford. He had a plan to blow up Muslims in the UK. The story was ranked around third on the news. A story about a Muslim in a similair plot would be the top storey and run for days.

That sort of thing won't go unnoticed by impressionable youths. IMO the system is letting everyone down.

[hibsbollah]

So, I take it there is no leeway for debating whether anybody has been let down?

We live in a free society, where people are supposed to be able to follow their conscience and have the right to make their own decisions. We then cry "foul" when somebody makes a decisions that goes against the prevailing definition of decency. It appears clear from our media that they have done the wrong thing, ie pick the wrong side in this conflict.

If Mosley had got his own way in the 30s, many of those who returned from the Spanish Civil War would have been in jail. Instead there are war memorials to them, and they are revered as heroes, providing they were on the right side.

I think what the girls have done is horrible. However, I am getting sick of the way our news is nothing more than a propaganda machine. Put the newsreaders voices up half an octave, and play patriotic orchestral music in the background, and it might as well be Pathe or Movietone doing the broadcast.

There was a story a couple of months back about an ex squaddie who had built a bomb in his bedroom. I think he came from Salford. He had a plan to blow up Muslims in the UK. The story was ranked around third on the news. A story about a Muslim in a similair plot would be the top storey and run for days.

That sort of thing won't go unnoticed by impressionable youths. IMO the system is letting everyone down.

The difference in coverage, and the lack of sympathy shown to the girls/women involved, (local mp says she has 'no sympathy') is because they aren't considered as British in a real sense. The mask slips.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/feb/22/uk-counter-terror-officials-criticised-syria-bound-london-schoolgirls

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

They don't consider themselves British, why should anyone else?

[hibsbollah]

They don't consider themselves British, why should anyone else?

I have no idea what they consider themselves as.

[Sir David Gray]

Hopefully the UK security services will ensure that it's a one way ticket, although that's probably against their human rights.

I wouldn't allow anyone who has travelled to Iraq or Syria in the past two or three years entry into the UK, except for those who have been there for legitimate reasons, i.e. military personnel, journalists etc.

At 15 and 16, you should be old enough to know that joining a group that captures and beheads charity workers and people who simply have a different set of religious beliefs from them is wrong. If you don't then I don't want these people living in this country.

[The_Exile]

They'll be dead in less than 6 months, **** 'em.

[Phil D. Rolls]

Hopefully the UK security services will ensure that it's a one way ticket, although that's probably against their human rights.

I wouldn't allow anyone who has travelled to Iraq or Syria in the past two or three years entry into the UK, except for those who have been there for legitimate reasons, i.e. military personnel, journalists etc.

At 15 and 16, you should be old enough to know that joining a group that captures and beheads charity workers and people who simply have a different set of religious beliefs from them is wrong. If you don't then I don't want these people living in this country.

Would you let people who were over there spying back in Trig? Never been sure if spying is a legitimate activity or not.

[Sir David Gray]

Would you let people who were over there spying back in Trig? Never been sure if spying is a legitimate activity or not.

I'll make my point a bit clearer.

Any British citizen who goes to Iraq or Syria to support Islamic State in any way should not be allowed back into the UK.

I understand that my above proposal is not possible but that would be the rules if I was in charge.

[Phil D. Rolls]

I'll make my point a bit clearer.

Any British citizen who goes to Iraq or Syria to support Islamic State in any way should not be allowed back into the UK.

I understand that my above proposal is not possible but that would be the rules if I was in charge.

So should any British Citizen living in the UK that supports IS be deported?

[gringojoe]

So should any British Citizen living in the UK that supports IS be deported?

Only after they have been beheaded.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

So should any British Citizen living in the UK that supports IS be deported?

It would free up some room for the EU immigrants.

[Sir David Gray]

So should any British Citizen living in the UK that supports IS be deported?

No, just arrested, charged and jailed.

[Phil D. Rolls]

No, just arrested, charged and jailed.

So should anyone who expresses support for other organisations that have declared themselves enemies of Britain - such as the IRA - be arrested, charged and jailed. (I take it the absence trial stage is intentional. :greengrin)

[hibsbollah]

So should anyone who expresses support for other organisations that have declared themselves enemies of Britain - such as the IRA - be arrested, charged and jailed. (I take it the absence trial stage is intentional. :greengrin)

Thats the legal position as defined by current terrorism legislation, I think.

[Sir David Gray]

So should anyone who expresses support for other organisations that have declared themselves enemies of Britain - such as the IRA - be arrested, charged and jailed. (I take it the absence trial stage is intentional. :greengrin)

As Hibsbollah has already said, that is the current position of the UK Government.

Anyone supporting a proscribed terrorist organisation should be arrested. Obviously what happens from there is up to the Police and the courts but it is against the law to support an organisation which is proscribed in the UK and the IRA is one such group.

[Phil D. Rolls]

Thats the legal position as defined by current terrorism legislation, I think.


As Hibsbollah has already said, that is the current position of the UK Government.

Anyone supporting a proscribed terrorist organisation should be arrested. Obviously what happens from there is up to the Police and the courts but it is against the law to support an organisation which is proscribed in the UK and the IRA is one such group.

Is this right?

Other than that, what does support actually mean? Is it expressing a sympathy with the group's objective, or do you have to be involved with organising and funding?

[snooky]

Is this right?

Other than that, what does support actually mean? Is it expressing a sympathy with the group's objective, or do you have to be involved with organising and funding?

Who and what actually defines an organisation as being a terrorist group? Just curious.

[DaveF]

They'll be dead in less than 6 months, **** 'em.

Amen or Allahu Ahkbar to that.

3 less to worry about.

[lord bunberry]

Who and what actually defines an organisation as being a terrorist group? Just curious.

Its probably Ant and Dec

[Phil D. Rolls]

Who and what actually defines an organisation as being a terrorist group? Just curious.

I suppose the smart arse answer is "history".

I don't know, but picking up on previous tests, I assume it's the government that chooses,based on how they are feeling at the time.

[hibsbollah]

Is this right?

Other than that, what does support actually mean? Is it expressing a sympathy with the group's objective, or do you have to be involved with organising and funding?

https://www.liberty-human-rights.org.uk/human-rights/countering-terrorism/overview-terrorism-legislation

Under the terms of the 2000 terrorism act, you could be subject to 14 days detention WITHOUT CHARGE in a high security prison for 'encouragement of terrorism'. 'Terrorism' as defined by who? Is the grey area...You cant say you think the Real IRA should start bombing again, or that Hamas should give the IDF a good kicking on the gaza strip. It's not exactly thought crime though; you're allowed to think 'terrorism' is ok, you're just not allowed to say it or write it down. I'd like to think had these girls been caught planning to go to Syria to help Assad drop chlorine on schoolkids, instead of joining ISIS they would have been detained under this act, but we'll never know. It sounds like the security services messed this one up regardless.

[Sir David Gray]

Is this right?

Other than that, what does support actually mean? Is it expressing a sympathy with the group's objective, or do you have to be involved with organising and funding?

Why wouldn't it be right?

If someone is charged with an offence, they go to court and it's then up to the court to determine what happens to them.

With regards to your second question, it's like any criminal offence in that it's open to interpretation. "Encouragement of terrorism" is an offence under the Terrorism Act 2006.

It carries a maximum sentence of seven years in prison.

[Bristolhibby]

Are we all missing the point.

Let's replace "joining a jihad" with "groomed and abused by peodophiles".

These girls were groomed. One set of girls groomed for sexual abuse, the other by nutters who will likely use them as sucide bombers.

They are victims, pure and simple.

This "**** em", attitude is exactly what the government wants from us in a pre cursor to direct military involvement.

J

[The_Exile]

They are victims, pure and simple.

Respectfully disagree with you BH. Fair enough they might be impressionable, I think we all were at that age, and indeed there may be common traits regarding the comparisons you make, but you don't join ISIS after being groomed for it IMO. There has to be a fundamental evil streak within these people to even entertain the notion of joining this particular cause.

[Bristolhibby]

Respectfully disagree with you BH. Fair enough they might be impressionable, I think we all were at that age, and indeed there may be common traits regarding the comparisons you make, but you don't join ISIS after being groomed for it IMO. There has to be a fundamental evil streak within these people to even entertain the notion of joining this particular cause.

So some kids are born evil and will no matter what intervention seek to blow themselves and others up with a sucide vest?

I think what is more accurate is there is a lot of weak people in this world. And they can be minipulated to do horrible things.

I agree though, you have to be pretty ducked up to see a pilot on fire and think, "I want to be involved in a bit if that".

J

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

You've got wonder where these young lassies get the money to pay for their flights to Turkey. Maybe they just saved up their pocket money.

[heretoday]

They must see the Isis as dashing rebellious young blades. It's an irresistible image to some females.

The reality may prove to be somewhat different but by that time even their much-vaunted "intelligence" will not be enough to get them out of it.

[grunt]

This article seems to be generating some discussion

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/if-teenage-girls-want-to-join-isis-in-the-face-of-all-its-atrocities-then-they-should-leave-and-never-return-10065516.html

[Jones28]

This article seems to be generating some discussion

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/if-teenage-girls-want-to-join-isis-in-the-face-of-all-its-atrocities-then-they-should-leave-and-never-return-10065516.html

It raises good points.

[Geo_1875]

Respectfully disagree with you BH. Fair enough they might be impressionable, I think we all were at that age, and indeed there may be common traits regarding the comparisons you make, but you don't join ISIS after being groomed for it IMO. There has to be a fundamental evil streak within these people to even entertain the notion of joining this particular cause.

Agree totally. You think they would have clicked when after months of smooth chat up lines they're hit with "Do you want to come over to my place and cut peoples heads off?"

[Phil D. Rolls]

Why wouldn't it be right?

If someone is charged with an offence, they go to court and it's then up to the court to determine what happens to them.

With regards to your second question, it's like any criminal offence in that it's open to interpretation. "Encouragement of terrorism" is an offence under the Terrorism Act 2006.

It carries a maximum sentence of seven years in prison.

Sorry, the way I read it, I thought that they could go to jail without the need for a trial.

[NAE NOOKIE]

Its all very sad. I feel for the families of these girls who its highly likely will never see them again. The chances are that the grooming / propaganda aimed at them didn't include the disclaimer " your experience may differ " but I have a feeling they are going to wish it had.

I do have to say that my usual ability to try and look at the other persons point of view and ask myself what drove them to do what they have done before condemning them is tempered somewhat in the case of these three girls. There is no evidence to suggest they lack basic intelligence and even in the face of some online Jihadi bombarding them with "don't believe the propaganda of the infidel devils" the very people they have rushed to join have themselves published on line evidence of their disgusting barbarity. Butchering civilians including women and charity workers and the utter depravity of what they did to the Jordanian pilot.

Sorry, but even at 15 years of age if you are willing to accept that such barbarity is acceptable, no matter what the cause, then you are scraping the bottom of the sympathy barrel .... even from a wishy washy commie pinko Liberal bleeding heart like me.

[Pete]

Its all very sad. I feel for the families of these girls who its highly likely will never see them again. The chances are that the grooming / propaganda aimed at them didn't include the disclaimer " your experience may differ " but I have a feeling they are going to wish it had.

I do have to say that my usual ability to try and look at the other persons point of view and ask myself what drove them to do what they have done before condemning them is tempered somewhat in the case of these three girls. There is no evidence to suggest they lack basic intelligence and even in the face of some online Jihadi bombarding them with "don't believe the propaganda of the infidel devils" the very people they have rushed to join have themselves published on line evidence of their disgusting barbarity. Butchering civilians including women and charity workers and the utter depravity of what they did to the Jordanian pilot.

Sorry, but even at 15 years of age if you are willing to accept that such barbarity is acceptable, no matter what the cause, then you are scraping the bottom of the sympathy barrel .... even from a wishy washy commie pinko Liberal bleeding heart like me.

Agree completely.

[Future17]

IS are now trying to recruit even younger people by using party balloons as propaganda...

http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-31629267

[Stranraer]

They must know that the promo video's that they are being shown are full of ***** I mean who would want to marry the highest bidder?

[DaveF]

I see jihadi john looks like he has been unmasked. I wouldn't be walking the streets if I were his immediate family.

[Future17]

I see jihadi john looks like he has been unmasked. I wouldn't be walking the streets if I were his immediate family.

What do you mean?

[DaveF]

What do you mean?

Possible reprisals? Probably won't ever happen, but you never know.

[Sir David Gray]

Possible reprisals? Probably won't ever happen, but you never know.

I wouldn't say that it's unlikely to be honest.

This is a man who has been named as being responsible for committing crimes that are so wicked, they're almost impossible to comprehend. I know that's not the fault of anyone in his family and only he should be held accountable for his actions.

However I think it's quite probable that a few people could realise where his family stay and take some form of retribution, thinking that they're doing some honourable act, when in actual fact they would just be committing a crime against an innocent person.

I wouldn't be sleeping too comfortably right now, if I was related to this guy and living in the UK.

[HibsMax]

It might not seem like a big issue....until they come back and murder innocent people back home. It's a tough one. They're not terrorists yet (and they may never become terrorists) but if the authorities caught some ISIS operatives (a sleeper cell perhaps) in the UK, what would happen to them? Should these girls be treated any differently? It's not like they just want a change of scenery and want to see some of the world. They're willingly moving to Terror Central. Should they be stopped before they even leave or would that be considered an infringement on their rights?

[Sir David Gray]

It might not seem like a big issue....until they come back and murder innocent people back home. It's a tough one. They're not terrorists yet (and they may never become terrorists) but if the authorities caught some ISIS operatives (a sleeper cell perhaps) in the UK, what would happen to them? Should these girls be treated any differently? It's not like they just want a change of scenery and want to see some of the world. They're willingly moving to Terror Central. Should they be stopped before they even leave or would that be considered an infringement on their rights?

As I said earlier in the thread, I would allow anyone who wants to go to Syria or Iraq, on IS business, to go there, on the understanding that it was a one way ticket.