Should "Flower of Scotland " be the national anthem

[lucky]

The SFA are currently consulting on whether Flower of Scotland should be the national anthem. You can have your say here

http://www.scottishfa.co.uk/scottish_fa_news.cfm?page=2986&newsID=14283&newsCategoryID=1

[J-C]

Personally it's a NO from me, the song is a dirge which is only appropriate when we play England due to the lyrics, Scotland the Brave is a far better choice, more uplifing.

[Pete]

Yes.

However, those who sing it too fast or add that "'gainst him" bit after "stood against him" should be banned for life.

[HibsNutter]

I don't think they are likely to change the song played before international games. The question is whether or not we make FOS the official anthem, as just now we do not have one.

[Centre Hawf]

Yes. I find nothing better than belting out Flower of Scotland, Scotland the Brave just doesn't do it for me and theres not a lot else to choose from. And please no one say 500 miles.

[ronaldo7]

The SFA are currently consulting on whether Flower of Scotland should be the national anthem. You can have your say here

http://www.scottishfa.co.uk/scottish_fa_news.cfm?page=2986&newsID=14283&newsCategoryID=1

It's got to be God save the Queen hasn't it.:worms:

[The_Horde]

Yes. Absolutely yes! Scotland the brave would not sound half as good, it would be like singing a hymn in church. The lyrics are far too complex for a national anthem.

Genuinely think people just like to say something different because they think it makes them sound clever or unique.

[Kato]

It's all a bit kail yard, no?

That Fratelli's thing that everyone sings along with reflects more where we are now.

[marinello59]

Flower of Scotland is a backwards looking dirge. What relevance does it have to the modern vibrant Scotland we live in now?

[bod]

Yes. I find nothing better than belting out Flower of Scotland, Scotland the Brave just doesn't do it for me and theres not a lot else to choose from. And please no one say 500 miles.

5 hunner miles

[Lago]

Flower of Scotland is a backwards looking dirge. What relevance does it have to the modern vibrant Scotland we live in now?
Totally, totally agree. I cringe every time I hear it being sung, badly and out of tune, at Hampden Park.

[Stranraer]

Highland Cathedral

[sambajustice]

Its utter pish and even more irrelevant since the "No" vote...

Ch-ch-ch-change!!!

[Centre Hawf]

5 hunner miles

If it was made a rule that we had to say it like that then I would vote for it.

[offshorehibby]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wP8A9rtg0iI

[NAE NOOKIE]

Totally, totally agree. I cringe every time I hear it being sung, badly and out of tune, at Hampden Park.

:agree:

[Pretty Boy]

It's a bit twee and just rubbish.

Watched the start of the rugby on Saturday and the rousing call to arms of La Marseillaise really showed Flower of Scotland up for what it is.

[Andy74]

It's all a bit kail yard, no?

That Fratelli's thing that everyone sings along with reflects more where we are now.

The one that goes Chelsea, Chelsea??

[Kato]

The one that goes Chelsea, Chelsea??

60% hearing mate, sometimes lyrics go past me. :greengrin

Just sing the doot-do-roo-roots anyway.

[Hibs History]

Can we not just steal the Irish one for the rugby and change the country and words a little?

That's really good.

My point is, would a new uplifting anthem for a new Scotland not be a better option?

Instead of going over the same options again again as we have the last time this debate came up.

With the passion and musically creative talent this country has, it shouldn't be too hard

[VivaHiberña]

I don't think FoS is that bad. It's not quite La Marsaillaise but I'd be lying if I said a full Hampden singing it didn't make the hairs on the back of my neck stand up. Anyway, ABE and all that...

I would love Hamish Henderson's internationalist "Freedom Come All Ye" but it'll never happen. It's a tricky enough tune already; 50,000 people would absolutely butcher it. Plus in a sense its internationalist and anti-imperialist themes make it too good to just be a national anthem.

Highland Cathedral's OK, but I'm not sold on the lyrics. Like Scotland the Brave, they feel a bit "tartan shortbread tin".

[Michael]

We should have a referendum, but with the question open ended.

[Pete]

What's wrong with stuff that refers to our history?

I was going to suggest something by Ultrasonic but that's so 1990's. Better think of something a bit more up to date.

[lord bunberry]

I like Scotland The Brave but hardly anyone knows the lyrics so we should stick to Flower Of Scotland.

[JimBHibees]

Would prefer a more confident and positive song, Caledonia or something like that.

[Gmack7]

Dougie miller, Caledonia 👍

[lord bunberry]

Dougie miller, Caledonia 👍

I do like that song

[ekhibee]

Highland Cathedral
Yep, that would be my choice, and has been for some time. Don't think it'll get the vote though. The 2 best national anthems, IMO, are the welsh national anthem and the South African one, pity we can't get one that arouses the same kind of passion.

[Gmack7]

I do like that song

Well that's 3 of us, surely enough for a campaign 😀

[eastterrace]

Its utter pish and even more irrelevant since the "No" vote...

Ch-ch-ch-change!!!

yes 55 percent can only whistle the part that says , we can still rise up and be a nation again.

and if they do sing it they have a nerve.

[son of haggart]

I don't think FoS is that bad. It's not quite La Marsaillaise but I'd be lying if I said a full Hampden singing it didn't make the hairs on the back of my neck stand up. Anyway, ABE and all that...

I would love Hamish Henderson's internationalist "Freedom Come All Ye" but it'll never happen. It's a tricky enough tune already; 50,000 people would absolutely butcher it. Plus in a sense its internationalist and anti-imperialist themes make it too good to just be a national anthem.

Highland Cathedral's OK, but I'm not sold on the lyrics. Like Scotland the Brave, they feel a bit "tartan shortbread tin".

I was going to mention the Freedom Come All Ye - should be the national song if not anthem

Personally I would say we should adopt a 'sporting anthem' and my choice would be Runrig's Alba - you can do it without lyrics (ie just a band) except the fans could come in on the 'chorus' - it's a pretty rousing song

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t830PbrbMi8

[PeeJay]

... as an ex-pat it has to be a resounding no from me, although I enjoyed the Corries song in its original context, i.e. the world of folk music. I'd prefer an anthem that reflected on Scotland's vision of itself in the contemporary world rather than limply harking back to the glory days of beating the English - think the country has to define itself on a larger stage than in relation to England ... find it embarrassing myself, nothing uplifting about it for me ... not keen on Highland Cathedral or "Steh Wieder auf" as it's also known, after all it's written by them Germans ... Surely the country has to write it's own national anthem (then again, Germany's was written by an Austrian, so maybe it doesn't matter after all...) :greengrin

[SeanWilson]

How anyone can sing those lyrics since the 'no' vote is beyond me. Embarrassment!

[jodjam]

How anyone can sing those lyrics since the 'no' vote is beyond me. Embarrassment!

Totally agree. When doing my tours I've stopped telling guests about FoS. We need a modern song.

[--------]

I was going to mention the Freedom Come All Ye - should be the national song if not anthem

Personally I would say we should adopt a 'sporting anthem' and my choice would be Runrig's Alba - you can do it without lyrics (ie just a band) except the fans could come in on the 'chorus' - it's a pretty rousing song

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t830PbrbMi8


The Freedom Come All Ye would be my choice too, but I'm afraid the establishment wouldn't wear anything that refers to John McLean and Nelson Mandela in those terms.

Just a tad revolutionary, no?

But PLEASE NOT that ghastly dirge Highland Cathedral. Apart from anything else, it was written by a couple of Germans.

And the lyrics are pure stinkin ersatz Hoochter-cheuchter.

:sick:

[drumatic44]

It has to be Hamish Henderson's classic the Freedom Cam all ye, a true socialist anthem with a great tune.

[Hal Jordan]

Robert Burns already wrote it:

http://youtu.be/IniRHT56Fv8

[Cocaine&Caviar]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BOJXT6UFhQI

[allezsauzee]

How anyone can sing those lyrics since the 'no' vote is beyond me. Embarrassment!

Which no vote? 2014 or 1979?

[WellingtonHibby]

It's a bit twee and just rubbish.

Watched the start of the rugby on Saturday and the rousing call to arms of La Marseillaise really showed Flower of Scotland up for what it is.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=HM-E2H1ChJM

Best. Rendition. Ever.

[Fishwicke]

I don't like any national anthem which glorifies past wars or victorys. Even if they are sung at Murrayfield and Hampden. The Ibrox crowd also like singing of past historic battles and victorys. The only victorys I sing about are Hibs victorys.

[lucky]

The No vote is irrelevant in this debate. I don't feeel any less Scottish because of the decision. I'm not a fan of FoS much prefer Caledonia as a sporting anthem.

[Glory Lurker]

We can only really be talking about a sporting anthem rather than a national anthem, given we're not a real nation, and that. And if it's only a sporting anthem, does it really matter? Something by Sheena Easton, maybe?

[ruthven_raiders]

Would prefer a more confident and positive song, Caledonia or something like that.

Totally agree with Caledonia, my son is learning the words at school for their scotland day celebrations and he was singing it to me while watching it on Youtube, great uplifting song

[gaz1875]

Caledonia :top marks I hate Flower of Scotland doesn't help when people sing the wrong verses :rolleyes:

[hibby67]

I find singing the line " but we can still rise now and be a nation again" a bit embarrassing after the referendum.............. :fuming:

[lucky]

We can only really be talking about a sporting anthem rather than a national anthem, given we're not a real nation, and that. And if it's only a sporting anthem, does it really matter? Something by Sheena Easton, maybe?

:greengrin wonder how many will bite

[Andy74]

Totally agree with Caledonia, my son is learning the words at school for their scotland day celebrations and he was singing it to me while watching it on Youtube, great uplifting song

I'm not sure Caledonia is supposed to be uplifting.

[Hal Jordan]

Is there for honest Poverty
That hings his head, an' a' that;
The coward slave-we pass him by,
We dare be poor for a' that!
For a' that, an' a' that.
Our toils obscure an' a' that,
The rank is but the guinea's stamp,
The Man's the gowd (http://www.robertburns.org/works/glossary/800.html) for a' that.

What though on hamely fare we dine,
Wear hoddin (http://www.robertburns.org/works/glossary/909.html) grey, an' a that;
Gie (http://www.robertburns.org/works/glossary/769.html) fools their silks, and knaves their wine;
A Man's a Man for a' that:
For a' that, and a' that,
Their tinsel show, an' a' that;
The honest man, tho' e'er (http://www.robertburns.org/works/glossary/592.html) sae (http://www.robertburns.org/works/glossary/1371.html) poor,
Is king o' men for a' that.

Ye see yon (http://www.robertburns.org/works/glossary/1916.html) birkie, ca'd a lord,
Wha (http://www.robertburns.org/works/glossary/1833.html) struts, an' stares, an' a' that;
Tho' hundreds worship at his word,
He's but a coof (http://www.robertburns.org/works/glossary/415.html) for a' that:
For a' that, an' a' that,
His ribband, star, an' a' that:
The man o' independent mind (http://www.robertburns.org/works/glossary/1159.html)
He looks an' laughs at a' that.

A prince can mak (http://www.robertburns.org/works/glossary/1124.html) a belted knight,
A marquis, duke, an' a' that;
But (http://www.robertburns.org/works/glossary/288.html) an (http://www.robertburns.org/works/glossary/41.html) honest man's abon his might,
Gude (http://www.robertburns.org/works/glossary/823.html) faith, he maunna (http://www.robertburns.org/works/glossary/1133.html) fa' (http://www.robertburns.org/works/glossary/616.html) that!
For a' that, an' a' that,
Their dignities an' a' that;
The pith o' sense, an' pride o' (http://www.robertburns.org/works/glossary/1208.html) worth,
Are higher rank than a' that.

Then let us pray that come it may,
(As come it will for a' that,)
That Sense and Worth, o'er a' the earth,
Shall bear (http://www.robertburns.org/works/glossary/125.html) the gree, an' a' that.
For a' that, an' (http://www.robertburns.org/works/glossary/40.html) a' that,
It's coming yet for a' that,
That Man to Man, the world o'er,
Shall brothers be for a' (http://www.robertburns.org/works/glossary/4.html) that.


The last verse brings a lump to the throat and tears to the eyes...and it's what Scotland should be about.
The only problem is that most Scots cannæ understand Scots...:confused:

[Smartie]

I'm not sure Caledonia is supposed to be uplifting.

If it has to be uplifting can I suggest "Fandabidozi" by the Krankies then?

It doesn't really matter what they go for, I'm one of those annoying *******s that swaggers into Scotland games about 15 minutes late, blootered.

And I don't want it to be FoS at the football any more. Meaningless dirge after the outcome in September. Although I quite like the self-satisfaction that comes with sneering at the "no" voting rugby lot singing tunefully about "being a nation again" before the best posh boys our nation can produce get pumped ragged again.

[lucky]

If it has to be uplifting can I suggest "Fandabidozi" by the Krankies then?

It doesn't really matter what they go for, I'm one of those annoying *******s that swaggers into Scotland games about 15 minutes late, blootered.

And I don't want it to be FoS at the football any more. Meaningless dirge after the outcome in September. Although I quite like the self-satisfaction that comes with sneering at the "no" voting rugby lot singing tunefully about "being a nation again" before the best posh boys our nation can produce get pumped ragged again.

That's because most Scots felt we were a nation before, during and after the referendum

[bigwheel]

If it has to be uplifting can I suggest "Fandabidozi" by the Krankies then?

It doesn't really matter what they go for, I'm one of those annoying *******s that swaggers into Scotland games about 15 minutes late, blootered.

And I don't want it to be FoS at the football any more. Meaningless dirge after the outcome in September. Although I quite like the self-satisfaction that comes with sneering at the "no" voting rugby lot singing tunefully about "being a nation again" before the best posh boys our nation can produce get pumped ragged again.


You are not taking this debate seriously.... I'll go for "Donald , where's yer troosers".....

[portycabbage]

I find singing the line " but we can still rise now and be a nation again" a bit embarrassing after the referendum.............. :fuming:




Perhaps we should change the line, and while we're at it, the English could change the line in their anthem "rebellious Scots to crush" to "panic and give the Scots a last second pre-referendum devo max style bribe". Catchy. :greengrin

[PiemanP]

I like FOS, although the rugger buggers sing it much slower and better. It's not been the same at hampden since they ditched Amy McDonald singing it (for both the ears and and the eyes :) )

[Hal Jordan]

Thing everyone forgets is that the majority of non-Jacobite, content, law abiding Scots wanted those pesky rebellious ones crushed too.

[ACLeith]

For me, it's 100% NO.

The words - garbage. An anthem should send out a positive message about the country, not be anti another country and refer to events 700+ years ago. (GSTQ falls into a similar category).

The tune - a dirge (I thought this back when I first heard The Corries do it). And how can we consider a tune that our national instrument cannot play properly!

So, apart from the words and tune, I've nothing against the song :greengrin

Many of the songs already mentioned here have their merits (apart from Scotland the Brave, a music hall piece of tripe IMO), but I always find the tune of Highland Cathedral uplifting and if decent, modern, words could be written to it then it would probably get my vote.

[Hibbyradge]

I don't like it as our anthem.

No from me.

[portycabbage]

Personally it's a NO from me, the song is a dirge which is only appropriate when we play England due to the lyrics, Scotland the Brave is a far better choice, more uplifing.

When I hear Scotland the Brave, I can't help but think of a guy I worked with singing "here comes the highland granny, two big t*ts and a hairy f***y"!

I just think of Flower of Scotland as the national anthem. I quite like the fact it isn't a generic bit of marching band music like every other one seems to be. I didn't like Sunshine on Leith when I first heard it and thought it was a dirge, but grew to love it because of its shared significance at Hibs games.

[Fishwicke]

It would appear that the majority on here so far are against FoS.

[CRAZYHIBBY]

I would rather have fos than the others mentioned......its our anthem and always will be

[Paisley Hibby]

Auld Lang Syne would make a brilliant Scottish national anthem.

[hibbiedon]

Rule Britannia after the referendum

[Eyrie]

I like "Flower of Scotland" and it has one massive advantage - it has become our anthem by choice through the years when the other suggestions in this thread could have been adopted but weren't.

And remember it could be worse. There could be a Britain Lacks Talent/ Execrable Factor style talent-free contest for some god-awful pop song that will be dated in a few years.

[whiskyhibby]

Personally it's a NO from me, the song is a dirge which is only appropriate when we play England due to the lyrics, Scotland the Brave is a far better choice, more uplifing.

Completely agree, it's sentimental and backward looking

[Peevemor]

Has to be

http://youtu.be/w4eXL-6YIH4

[Carheenlea]

Freedom Come All Ye is a terrific song, and this version from the great Luke Kelly from The Dubliners is a favourite of mine. Kelly sang a lot of Scottish songs - I think his mother was Scottish - and his version of this has a bit more of an anthemic sound to it to the softer sung better known versions.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nblP1_-28Mw

[Greencore]

Scots wae hae?

[Cauld Bovril]

I'd rather have FOS than Caledonia but both are pish songs. I'd go for something more contemporary or, even better, psychedelic seeing as our national animal is a unicorn :greengrin

[Speedy]

Yes.

However, those who sing it too fast or add that "'gainst him" bit after "stood against him" should be banned for life.

"gainst who",Shirley?

[--------]

Freedom Come All Ye is a terrific song, and this version from the great Luke Kelly from The Dubliners is a favourite of mine. Kelly sang a lot of Scottish songs - I think his mother was Scottish - and his version of this has a bit more of an anthemic sound to it to the softer sung better known versions.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nblP1_-28Mw


HH's big mistake, of course, was to write the song in proper broad Scots ....

That's a terrific version. :thumbsup:

[portycabbage]

our national animal is a unicorn :greengrin

So it was our unhealthy lifestyle that did for the unicorns. I knew it!

[Bishop Hibee]

Freedom Come All Ye is a terrific song, and this version from the great Luke Kelly from The Dubliners is a favourite of mine. Kelly sang a lot of Scottish songs - I think his mother was Scottish - and his version of this has a bit more of an anthemic sound to it to the softer sung better known versions.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nblP1_-28Mw

I voted for this or for a new composition. Flower of Scotland is a great folk song but shouldn't be our official anthem.

[Stax]

Thing everyone forgets is that the majority of non-Jacobite, content, law abiding Scots wanted those pesky rebellious ones crushed too.
Dearie me, a parcel o rogues indeed...

[Hannah_hfc]

Has no-one suggested Loch Lomond yet?

Runrig version is a belter and I'm sure 50,000 at Hampden couldn't mess it up

[HIBERNIAN-0762]

It's got to be God save the Queen hasn't it.:worms:

:slipper:

[heretoday]

Definitely not. The National Anthem should be Wild Mountain Thyme.

[heretoday]

:slipper:


Or the Penny Arcade!

[jdships]

Caledonia
Highland Cathedral
Scotland the Brave

No to the three of them - how about something fresh and appropriate ?
:rolleyes:

[Dashing Bob S]

Given that front man Brian Connolly was Scots, I'd go for the Sweet's Ballroom Blitz.

[son of haggart]

Has no-one suggested Loch Lomond yet?

Runrig version is a belter and I'm sure 50,000 at Hampden couldn't mess it up



The meaning of the words of Loch Lomond (debatable but none of the theories seem very uplifting) would militate against that song - Alba would be a better Runrig song

TranslationEdit
This flight is sailing through the clouds
And the blue heavens
The homeland appears like a developing photograph
Through the mists as I return to land

I see Scotland of the high mountains
And the empty acres
Flying low across the moorland lochs
The forests and the glens

But it's a wounding and a hollow sight
Here as we reach the end of the century
The beautiful soil of the people
Still in the hands of the few

I see the wheels of industry at a standstill
And the northern lands wasted
And the empty house in Edinburgh
Without authority or voice

You that have laid field upon field
House upon house
Till there be nowhere for you to be placed alone
In the midst of all the earth

But it is good for me to be here now
As I welcome the warmth
In this land that's as exciting for me today
As it was the day I was born

[snooky]

Hermless - Michael Marra

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5F44WfZoIN4

Nae contest. :coffee:

[--------]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nLGKFTH5sw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efQEjZgeqZk

Another couple of versions.

[Sir David Gray]

Auld Lang Syne would make a brilliant Scottish national anthem.

:agree: We would also have an opportunity at each rugby and football match to teach the rest of the world the proper words.

For any American or English guests looking in on this thread, it's not "For the sake of auld lang syne" :grr:

[erin go bragh]

Its utter pish and even more irrelevant since the "No" vote...

Ch-ch-ch-change!!!

Not for 45% of us .

Ggtth

[Future17]

:agree: We would also have an opportunity at each rugby and football match to teach the rest of the world the proper words.

For any American or English guests looking in on this thread, it's not "For the sake of auld lang syne" :grr:

Nope, everyone knows it's "fir tha sake o' aui' lan' syne". :greengrin

[Sir David Gray]

Nope, everyone knows it's "fir tha sake o' aui' lan' syne". :greengrin

I know it shouldn't but it drives me mad every year at Hogmanay, when we get live pictures from across England and they're all singing along with those lyrics.

[Mikey09]

I suggest Who's got a match by Biffy Clyro..... :greengrin

[Houchy]

Dry yer eyes mate

... By "The Streets"?

Doesn't really do it for me as an anthem😏

[joebakerforever]

FoS is crap, a maudlin dirge that suits the rugby hooray henry mob.

Give me something with a bit life in it.

TBH none listed are stirring, but Scotland The Brave is the best of a bad bunch.

Get the Proclaimers to pen something better.

[NAE NOOKIE]

The Italian anthem is the dugs bollox .... somethin' like that wud dae.

[Iain G]

FoS is crap, a maudlin dirge that suits the rugby hooray henry mob.

Give me something with a bit life in it.

TBH none listed are stirring, but Scotland The Brave is the best of a bad bunch.

Get the Proclaimers to pen something better.

Sunshine on Leith for national anthem? :wink:

Plenty of good folk songs out there, finding one suitable for a national anthem is problematic, as shown by the Flower of Scotland issues some folks have about it being backward looking instead of forward and positive.

Something by Burns would be nice, A Man's a Man has a nice positive sentiment.

But given David Byrnes' Dumbartonshire roots, how about Once in a Lifetime by Talking Heads? :greengrin

[VivaHiberña]

I've already mentioned "Freedom Come All Ye" and have to say I maybe prefer "A Man's A Man For A' That" but just thinking out loud, how would folk feel about "Scotland's Story" by The Proclaimers as the "a bit more 'out there'" option?

I'm not convinced, but I'll put it out there for argument's sake.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_ekIS9QWSA


Controversial option: "Cap in Hand". Thoughts? :stirrer:

[TowerHibs]

Funny thread. Who cares if not relevant....It is the national anthem.

Is international football relevant??? Almost more foreigners playing for our current world champions than Germans.

SFA need to get priorities sorted. Not what song is sung before each game. £10 million a game the tv guys have paid for EPL yet we have a national league with no sponsor and people who run it saying the game is struggling up here.

Stop creating arguments about what songs to sing and start running our ****ing game properly

[Septimus]

It seems that many Scots songs are sung through the nose with an Irish accent. Frankly I could not care less what is sung. I would prefer an anthem sung after the game celebrating a win.

[ACLeith]

Stop creating arguments about what songs to sing and start running our ****ing game properly
Now that's something we can all agree with :top marks

[CentreLine]

I like Scotland The Brave but hardly anyone knows the lyrics so we should stick to Flower Of Scotland.

This is where I am. Scotland the Brave says it all really but it's probably too complicated for the Tartan Army in a crowd situation. Flower of Scotland has common popularity and so it becomes our anthem be default regardless of this opinion poll

[Hal Jordan]

Dearie me, a parcel o rogues indeed...

Ach, a good 38 years had elapsed. Most folk were happy with their lot and didnæ need some French agitator stirring things up again ;)
Looking at what happened after Culloden, they were right.

[ny1875]

I've already mentioned "Freedom Come All Ye" and have to say I maybe prefer "A Man's A Man For A' That" but just thinking out loud, how would folk feel about "Scotland's Story" by The Proclaimers as the "a bit more 'out there'" option?

I'm not convinced, but I'll put it out there for argument's sake.




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_ekIS9QWSA


Controversial option: "Cap in Hand". Thoughts? :stirrer:

A Man's A Man For A' That.... nice sentiment especially the last 2 lines "That Man to Man, the world o'er,
Shall brothers be for a' that."
Too much of a contradiction in our country where the SFA allows the sectarianism and bigotry to continue within football. Bigger issues to sort before we look for a new anthem imo.

[leither17]

What's wrong with stuff that refers to our history?

I was going to suggest something by Ultrasonic but that's so 1990's. Better think of something a bit more up to date.

Obsession or annihilating rhythm?

[TrinityHibs]

It's a bit twee and just rubbish.

Watched the start of the rugby on Saturday and the rousing call to arms of La Marseillaise really showed Flower of Scotland up for what it is.

I was at the game and The French were fantastic. I think a lot of the emotion was as a result of the attack on Charlie Hebdo but they ripped through it a couple of times during the game as well which was outstanding. The French, Irish, Welsh and Italians have better sports anthems. GSTQ and FOS are dire. Also Allez les Bleus is infinitely better than the depressing Scaaaaawwwwwtland Scaaaaaaaawwwwwtland.

[--------]

I LOVE this one.

Apparently after they kicked the Spanish out, half a dozen new South American republics employed a not-very-well-known Italian opera composer to do a job lot of national anthems. (Hope they got a good discount!) This is my favourite absolutely for all time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jc6L_0NZlqk

[Scottie]

Flower of Scotland and Scotland the Brave is DIRE :rolleyes:

Would rather stand there with complete silence than have to endure that dirge. :agree:

Get someone to pen us a new anthem for our evolving country like the Irish "Together Standing Tall"

[Hal Jordan]

The simple truth is that only France, Germany, Russia and Italy have got good ones.
Everyone else's gash efforts just reinforce that, especially when they're played back to back at sporting events.

[DarrenSQH]

Flower of Scotland is a joke after the vote really. Not sure our anthem should be about killing people anyway.

[marti1875]

Whilst i've not managed to go through every single post on the thread i thought i'd put my little bit in.
Last year before i got seriously ill (and still am) i was a Tour Guide and driver for a company and i took tourists on day trips all around Scotland telling them all about it etc, you get my drift.

Towards the end of the tour heading back towards Edinburgh i would either tell them about FOS then play it to them or indeed on many many occasions i would be asked, even begged to play it.
Lots of them even knew the words and would indeed sing along to it (very badly most of the time, ha ha) as if it was their own song.
It was always followed by a round of applause and even small cheers on occasion and people would thank me for playing it as they all love it so much.

It seems to me that most people all around the world LOVE FOS.....but by the few posts i have whisked through here it seems like we hate it!! :greengrin

To me Caledonia, for all i love it and think it's a great song, is more like a "nicey nicey" "pop" type of song than a rousing national anthem we could belt out. I see many saying FOS is crap and slow or whatever yet saying they would want this as the anthem, i just do not find Caledonia very rousing at all, maybe it's just me :confused: Same goes for Highland Cathedral, nice tune but slow as well so certainly not any faster so surely that would be just a "dirge" as well then?

Also, out of interest as i saw a couple of posts alluding to changing it to keep up with the times? Jow many other countries are changing their national anthems to do this? serious question, i'm not taking the piss ok, just interested to hear as personally i can't recall many countries doing this?

Anyway, a bit long winded, sorry....but i think sticking with FOS is just fine as i think if sung PROPERLY it really is a great song. :thumbsup:

[Future17]

Funny thread. Who cares if not relevant....It is the national anthem.

Is international football relevant??? Almost more foreigners playing for our current world champions than Germans.

SFA need to get priorities sorted. Not what song is sung before each game. £10 million a game the tv guys have paid for EPL yet we have a national league with no sponsor and people who run it saying the game is struggling up here.

Stop creating arguments about what songs to sing and start running our ****ing game properly

Interesting phrase you've used there - "creating arguments".

You've said that "almost more foreigners playing for our current world champions than Germans" when you must know that's not even close to being true. Out of a squad of 21 for the 2014 World Cup Final, only 2 were born outside Germany - Klose and Podolski - and the latter was an unused sub.

[MB62]

i think sticking with FOS is just fine as i think if sung PROPERLY it really is a great song. :thumbsup:

On September 18th last year, 55% of the people in Scotland rendered this song meaningless.

A new anthem needs to be written more relevant to this day and age.

[southsider]

Anthem by Scotland's greatest ever band: SAHB or The Sensational Alex Harvey Band






'

[Peevemor]

My experience is that most Frenchies prefer FoS to la Marseillaise. I'm not a huge fan myself because I believe a national anthem shouldn't be about past battles, but I do think that many people are simply fed up with it - the same will happen to any new anthem chosen - especially if it's Highland f***ing Cathedral.

Any new tune/song chosen will have to work on the great highland bagpipe - a national anthem that can't be played on the national instrument would be just plain stupid. FoS almost works - in bagpipe terms the "think" note should be a C natural which, although doable, isn't part of the standard GHB scale. The second part of Scotland the Teuch (thankfully) doesn't work at all and while Highlalnd f***ing Cathedral does work, it's pish!

We could maybe try this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_EwDlUHoDFo

[CockneyRebel]

Thing everyone forgets is that the majority of non-Jacobite, content, law abiding Scots wanted those pesky rebellious ones crushed too.

This is always glossed over to make the song sound anti Scottish when it was actually written to promote the past glories and hopes for the future of the four nations.

Enough looking back - everyone should be made to watch the Big Yin doing his national anthem sketch, it is hilarious.

[TowerHibs]

Interesting phrase you've used there - "creating arguments".

You've said that "almost more foreigners playing for our current world champions than Germans" when you must know that's not even close to being true. Out of a squad of 21 for the 2014 World Cup Final, only 2 were born outside Germany - Klose and Podolski - and the latter was an unused sub.
My point is people moaning about a song sung at the start of a match....Saying it's ancient and makes no sense.

yes they only had 2 players born outwith Germany but more from turkish, polish parents and those who have played youth games for other nations.

my main argument is that is the SFA think this is a priority then god help us. Game is dying for some leadership and the best they can come up with is should we sing FOS

[Bad Martini]

Any new tune/song chosen will have to work on the great highland bagpipe - a national anthem that can't be played on the national instrument would be just plain stupid. FoS almost works - in bagpipe terms the "think" note should be a C natural which, although doable, isn't part of the standard GHB scale. The second part of Scotland the Teuch (thankfully) doesn't work at all and while Highlalnd f***ing Cathedral does work, it's pish!

We could maybe try this

Ahh, so you make those same excuses about the noble instrument and it's lack of basic functionality, such as the required minor note at the end of the tune ... such problems never encountered on a guitar :greengrin ...however, respect; the old bag and tuneful wood attached IS the loudest, unaplified instrument on Planet Earth and pissed off our neighbours daan satth so much they banned it, for hunners of years :thumbsup:

Back to the debate.

When do we actually USE a National Anthem? In reality when?
Before the fitba and that stupid game the posh boys play. Thats aboot it (for sports that matter anyway :greengrin)

Now, if you arent attempting to go into "battle" (sporting or otherwise) with the belief you can win and a though back to past victory, what is the point? Surely the purpose of the song is to get your adrenalin going, ready for some (sporting) battle?

In which case, you can take all the orchestrated, pop tunes, dodgy German penned songs about old churches, daft songs about rockets and in fact everything apart from the old Russian anthem which basically shouts **** YOU really loudly and keep it where the no vote went.

Flower of Scotland for this backwards looking, dirge loving radge. Never bettered than WITHOUT musical accompaniment, thousands of hard done by fitba fans joining together, desperately attempting to avenge another dodgy referee or smug journalist.

:aok::na na:

[J-C]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9nnnM-__JQ

Billy Connolly anthem sketch

[Peevemor]

Ahh, so you make those same excuses about the noble instrument and it's lack of basic functionality, such as the required minor note at the end of the tune ...

OI! I'll get you sorted (indirectly) mate!

[Bad Martini]

OI! I'll get you sorted (indirectly) mate!

I didnae invent the obscure tuning, classed as "A" yet is far closer to Bb in real terms :greengrin

It's probably best desribed as a "a major scale with a flattened 7th". This is also known as the Mixolydian mode. The same scale steps can also be obtained on the piano by starting on G and playing all the white keys up to the next G.

None of that changes the fact that you canny play the note at the end of the song properly and we canny have all (almost) 6 million of us picking a song JUST to accomodate your shonky scale :na na::cb:greengrin

I jest. Canny whack the pipes playing FoS....and I know how much pipers love playing it....often...:na na:

[Andy74]

My experience is that most Frenchies prefer FoS to la Marseillaise. I'm not a huge fan myself because I believe a national anthem shouldn't be about past battles, but I do think that many people are simply fed up with it - the same will happen to any new anthem chosen - especially if it's Highland f***ing Cathedral.

Any new tune/song chosen will have to work on the great highland bagpipe - a national anthem that can't be played on the national instrument would be just plain stupid. FoS almost works - in bagpipe terms the "think" note should be a C natural which, although doable, isn't part of the standard GHB scale. The second part of Scotland the Teuch (thankfully) doesn't work at all and while Highlalnd f***ing Cathedral does work, it's pish!

We could maybe try this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_EwDlUHoDFo

I quite like La Marseillaise. The Star Spangled Banner is also a decent anthem. Both about past battles as well.

For a newly created thing the one the Irish play at the rugby is a good effort, simple and stirring.

How about Cap in Hand by the Proclaimers? It has the added benefit of a Hibs mention.

[ahibby]

Scotland's history is much more involved than one period when we had trouble with and English King. Any Scottish National Anthem should, in my view, look to the future and acknowledge all of our history not just one period of it. Therefore no Flower of Scotland should not be our anthem. It's okay to have a folk song for certain things but for an official anthem, no not for me.

[worcesterhibby]

If it's a Scottish Sporting Anthem then none better than
In a Big Country…Big country..with amended lyrics..


I've never seen you look like this without a reason
Another trophy falls away, another season passes us by

Shock

too many times it took the smile away from my face
But hope lives on and we still have the dreams of a child

In a big country, dreams stay with you
Like a lover's voice fires the mountainside
Stay alive

I thought that pain and truth were things that really mattered
But you can't stay here with every single hope you had shattered

I'm not expecting to grow flowers in a desert
But I can live and breathe and see the sun in wintertime

In a big country, dreams stay with you
Like a lover's voice fires the mountainside
Hope Stay's alive

In a big country, dreams stay with you
Like a lover's voice fires the mountainside
Hope Stay's alive

[Spike Mandela]

Scotland isn't a country or a sovereign state. We shouldn't have national teams never mind a national anthem.

God save the queen and British national teams should be right and proper way forward in this modern post referendum Britain whether we like it or not.

Some people just want it all ways.

[Phil MaGlass]

Whilst i've not managed to go through every single post on the thread i thought i'd put my little bit in.
Last year before i got seriously ill (and still am) i was a Tour Guide and driver for a company and i took tourists on day trips all around Scotland telling them all about it etc, you get my drift.

Towards the end of the tour heading back towards Edinburgh i would either tell them about FOS then play it to them or indeed on many many occasions i would be asked, even begged to play it.
Lots of them even knew the words and would indeed sing along to it (very badly most of the time, ha ha) as if it was their own song.
It was always followed by a round of applause and even small cheers on occasion and people would thank me for playing it as they all love it so much.

It seems to me that most people all around the world LOVE FOS.....but by the few posts i have whisked through here it seems like we hate it!! :greengrinTo me Caledonia, for all i love it and think it's a great song, is more like a "nicey nicey" "pop" type of song than a rousing national anthem we could belt out. I see many saying FOS is crap and slow or whatever yet saying they would want this as the anthem, i just do not find Caledonia very rousing at all, maybe it's just me :confused: Same goes for Highland Cathedral, nice tune but slow as well so certainly not any faster so surely that would be just a "dirge" as well then?

Also, out of interest as i saw a couple of posts alluding to changing it to keep up with the times? Jow many other countries are changing their national anthems to do this? serious question, i'm not taking the piss ok, just interested to hear as personally i can't recall many countries doing this?

Anyway, a bit long winded, sorry....but i think sticking with FOS is just fine as i think if sung PROPERLY it really is a great song. :thumbsup:

I can also say that the Dutch love FOS, when they hear it or hear/see it on the telly, they always turn it up, most french prefer FOS to their La Marseillaise, I prefer FOS played at a slightly quiker pace but it wouldnt do any harm to have some sort of competition/vote for a new one, I still think FOS would come out on top as for Caledonia, I think is a great song but can never imagne it being belted out at a sporting event.

[jgl07]

F o S is an absolute dirge.

It is negative and backward looking. It's a faux Jacobite song that was written in the 1960s by an out and out racist.

King Edward for heavens sake?

[The_Exile]

We need a new anthem, ie from scrath, no existing songs can match what a modern Scotland stands for or indeed longs for. Would be a brave soul who tries to pen one though, that's massive pressure, they'll never please everybody as a vast number still live (in their feeble, bigoted minds at least) in the pre-enlightenment era.

[Peevemor]

F o S is an absolute dirge.

It is negative and backward looking. It's a faux Jacobite song that was written in the 1960s by an out and out racist.

King Edward for heavens sake?

Racist? That's a very strong accusation to make against somebody no longer around to defend themself.

[Phil MaGlass]

F o S is an absolute dirge.

It is negative and backward looking. It's a faux Jacobite song that was written in the 1960s by an out and out racist.

King Edward for heavens sake?

Excuse me,really, being a proud Scotsman does not make you a racist. I would be interested to see any information you have on him being an "out and out racist"

[cabbageandribs1875]

F o S is an absolute dirge.

It is negative and backward looking. It's a faux Jacobite song that was written in the 1960s by an out and out racist.

King Edward for heavens sake?



pray tell which line in FoS is racist....how bizarre





this should be interesting


or not

[--------]

F o S is an absolute dirge.

It is negative and backward looking. It's a faux Jacobite song that was written in the 1960s by an out and out racist.

King Edward for heavens sake?


Jacobite?

Surely some mistake there? Wrong century entirely.

And I'd very much like to hear your evidence for the assertion that Roy Williamson was an 'out and out racist'.

Or your retraction.

[ekhibee]

My experience is that most Frenchies prefer FoS to la Marseillaise. I'm not a huge fan myself because I believe a national anthem shouldn't be about past battles, but I do think that many people are simply fed up with it - the same will happen to any new anthem chosen - especially if it's Highland f***ing Cathedral.

Any new tune/song chosen will have to work on the great highland bagpipe - a national anthem that can't be played on the national instrument would be just plain stupid. FoS almost works - in bagpipe terms the "think" note should be a C natural which, although doable, isn't part of the standard GHB scale. The second part of Scotland the Teuch (thankfully) doesn't work at all and while Highlalnd f***ing Cathedral does work, it's pish!

We could maybe try this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_EwDlUHoDFo
Brilliant piece of music, something everybody should listen to again and again, and played by one of the best ever bagpipers, if not the best. I still think you're still talking pish about Highland Cathedral though.

[hibby67]

We need a new anthem, ie from scrath, no existing songs can match what a modern Scotland stands for or indeed longs for. Would be a brave soul who tries to pen one though, that's massive pressure, they'll never please everybody as a vast number still live (in their feeble, bigoted minds at least) in the pre-enlightenment era.



The Irish rugby team done it with the song "Ireland's call" and it's a pretty good tune and gets belted out at the games... they wrote it to include the Ulster players who would not join in the "Soilders song" they still play both when they play in Dublin but only "Ireland's call" when playing away..

[Keith_M]

Done properly, Flower of scotland is NOT a dirge. It can be an uplifting song (however, I think it needs speeded up just a tad)

A lot of people get hung up on the lyrics and say that they're backward looking, or anti-English.

I'd advise them to listen properly next time as it's a song that encourages people to invoke the spirit of a time in Scotland's history but to create a better future for Scotland.


Here endeth the lesson

:wink:

[Andy74]

We need a new anthem, ie from scrath, no existing songs can match what a modern Scotland stands for or indeed longs for. Would be a brave soul who tries to pen one though, that's massive pressure, they'll never please everybody as a vast number still live (in their feeble, bigoted minds at least) in the pre-enlightenment era.

What does a modern Scotland stand for? Do wee keep changing it to keep this fresh?

Most anthems I'd guess have some aspect of recalling or celebrating a key moment in their history such as a battle or rebellion, I don't see why that isn't a valid way to go.

What sort of things can be sung about anyway? The new-ish Irish one at least has a point about it bringing the two nations together.

[H18S NX]

Should be this
...........https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qKggnBh2Mdw

[Andy74]

Done properly, Flower of scotland is NOT a dirge. It can be an uplifting song (however, I think it needs speeded up just a tad)

A lot of people get hung up on the lyrics and say that they're backward looking, or anti-English.

I'd advise them to listen properly next time as it's a song that encourages people to invoke the spirit of a time in Scotland's history but to create a better future for Scotland.


Here endeth the lesson

:wink:

Good points.

[tamig]

Done properly, Flower of scotland is NOT a dirge. It can be an uplifting song (however, I think it needs speeded up just a tad)

A lot of people get hung up on the lyrics and say that they're backward looking, or anti-English.

I'd advise them to listen properly next time as it's a song that encourages people to invoke the spirit of a time in Scotland's history but to create a better future for Scotland.


Here endeth the lesson

:wink:

I'd say it's far better without the bagpipes. It wasn't written for pipes and the pipes can't even make a few of the notes. I don't mind FOS at all - but spare me the pipes.

[ancient hibee]

Personally I've always thought anthems at sports events are not required-even more so these days when it's our New Zealanders against theirs at the rugby and that as far as the football is concerned if your neighbour can sing "Stop yer tickling Jock"you're in.I've been happy with Scotland the Brave -an old pipe tune with words added by Cliff Hanley in the 1950s but if all else fails I've a soft spot for Lord Rockinghams version of Hoots Mon.

[The_Horde]

I think we should ditch sunshine on leith for a more uplifting song.

[tamig]

I think we should ditch sunshine on leith for a more uplifting song.

Put that rod away.

[Peevemor]

I'd say it's far better without the bagpipes. It wasn't written for pipes and the pipes can't even make a few of the notes. I don't mind FOS at all - but spare me the pipes.


There's only one note that doesn't work and the majority of people don't even notice.

[Peevemor]

I
Personally I've always thought anthems at sports events are not required-even more so these days when it's our New Zealanders against theirs at the rugby and that as far as the football is concerned if your neighbour can sing "Stop yer tickling Jock"you're in.I've been happy with Scotland the Brave -an old pipe tune with words added by Cliff Hanley in the 1950s but if all else fails I've a soft spot forLord Rockinghams version of Hoots Mon.

:hyper

[tamig]

There's only one note that doesn't work and the majority of people don't even notice.

It sounds horrendous though in my opinion. I cringe when I hear that note. Its at the "tae think again" bit. Hideous.

[Hannah_hfc]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9nnnM-__JQ

Billy Connolly anthem sketch
Funnily enough this sketch came to mind earlier, brilliant stuff [emoji1]

[Pete]

Obsession or annihilating rhythm?

Annihilating rhythm. Now that is a tune that builds up :greengrin

[Pete]

When I hear Scotland the Brave, I can't help but think of a guy I worked with singing "here comes the highland granny, two big t*ts and a hairy f***y"!

Thank **** for this post as this is the first thing I think of whenever anyone talks about lyrics for this tune. I thought it was just me.

[lord bunberry]

Annihilating rhythm. Now that is a tune that builds up :greengrin

I'd love to hear the pipe bands try and play that one

[Future17]

My point is people moaning about a song sung at the start of a match....Saying it's ancient and makes no sense.

yes they only had 2 players born outwith Germany but more from turkish, polish parents and those who have played youth games for other nations.

my main argument is that is the SFA think this is a priority then god help us. Game is dying for some leadership and the best they can come up with is should we sing FOS

For as long as we have immigration of any kind, we'll continue to have people in this country who are Scottish by birth (as well as by any other definition) even if their parents aren't and I think that's a good thing.

On a football front, two of our best players in the national team recently have been Ikechi Anya and Shaun Maloney. One was born and raised in Paisley by a non-Scottish parents. One was born outside of Scotland to Scottish parents. Is one more Scottish than the other?

I agree with your general point about priorities, but an organisation like the SFA should be organising itself on many fronts - I wouldn't expect this consultation is being arranged at the expense of youth development, or anything else under the remit of the SFA. (I could be wrong, but I don't think the sponsorship issue you mentioned in your previous post is under the remit of the SFA).

[DAVE1875]

Should just lay down a competition for any and all Scottish artists to come up with new potential national anthems for Scotland.


As for the now, I'm more prone to Highland Cathedral. Trouble is, like Scotland the Brave, barely anyone knows the lyrics to it whilst EVERYONE knows the lyrics to Flower of Scotland

[GreenOnions]

A bit against the grain here but I have to say - I'm not really interested in us having any national anthem - or, indeed, anything to do with nationalistic celebration.

The whole notion seems to me to be contrived and a little redolent of the days when young men were whipped up into a fervour of sentiment and loyalty to a system that abused them before being sent into battle to their deaths. Turkeys celebrating Christmas - you could say? Tin hat is snug.

[snooky]

Freedom Come All Ye is a great song but has no chorus and is full of heavy Scots words which are sadly not used much nowadays.
Scotland The Brave is an advert for porage
Flower of Scotland is the awright I suppose. It's easy to sing
Scots Wha Hae is our offishul anthem IIRC
Highland Cathedral - nice tune but that's all
A Man's A Man captures the Scottish psyche so that would be my pick.

[Peevemor]

Freedom Come All Ye is a great song but has no chorus and is full of heavy Scots words which are sadly not used much nowadays.
Scotland The Brave is an advert for porage
Flower of Scotland is the awright I suppose. It's easy to sing
Scots Wha Hae is our offishul anthem IIRC
Highland Cathedral - nice tune but that's all
A Man's A Man captures the Scottish psyche so that would be my pick.

I agree with all of that, though Scots Wha Hae and A Man's a Man pose the same problem (worse in fact) as Freedom Come All Ye in terms of language.

[Carheenlea]

Freedom Come All Ye is a great song but has no chorus and is full of heavy Scots words which are sadly not used much nowadays.


I agree with all of that, though Scots Wha Hae and A Man's a Man pose the same problem (worse in fact) as Freedom Come All Ye in terms of language.

Lyrics for Freedom Come All Ye - sing along if you know the words...

"Roch the wind in the clear day’s dawin

Blaws the cloods heelster-gowdie ow’r the bay

But there’s mair nor a roch wind blawin

Through the great glen o the warld the day.



It’s a thocht that will gar oor rottans

A’ they rogues that gang gallus, fresh and gay -

Tak the road and seek ither loanins

For their ill ploys, tae sport and play



Nae mair will the bonnie callants

Mairch tae war when oor braggarts crousely craw,

Nor wee weans frae pit-heid and clachan

Mourn the ships sailin doon the Broomielaw.



Broken faimlies in lands we’ve herriet

Will curse Scotland the Brave nae mair, nae mair;

Black and white, ane til ither mairriet

Mak the vile barracks o their maisters bare



So come all ye at hame wi Freedom,

Never heed whit the hoodies croak for doom

In your hoose a' the bairns o Adam

Can find breid, barley-bree and painted room.



When MacLean meets wi’s freens in Springburn

A' the roses and geans will turn tae bloom,

And a black boy frae yont Nyanga

Dings the fell gallows o the burghers doon"

[Bad Martini]

What does a modern Scotland stand for? Do wee keep changing it to keep this fresh?

Most anthems I'd guess have some aspect of recalling or celebrating a key moment in their history such as a battle or rebellion, I don't see why that isn't a valid way to go.

What sort of things can be sung about anyway? The new-ish Irish one at least has a point about it bringing the two nations together.

The first time since I can remember I have ever agreed with a post you have made 100%.

Correct. And then some. :aok:

Now I feel uneasy agreeing with you ... even though, you're right :greengrin

[PeeJay]

What does a modern Scotland stand for? Do wee keep changing it to keep this fresh?

Most anthems I'd guess have some aspect of recalling or celebrating a key moment in their history such as a battle or rebellion, I don't see why that isn't a valid way to go.

What sort of things can be sung about anyway? The new-ish Irish one at least has a point about it bringing the two nations together.

:confused: How about "things" relevant to the country that is Scotland and what that nation stands for, if anything? Or are ancient battles against the English all the country has to offer? Burn's "A Man's a man for a that" is maybe a direction one could consider when wondering about "things" to sing about:greengrin?

[Bad Martini]

:confused: How about "things" relevant to the country that is Scotland and what that nation stands for, if anything? Or are ancient battles against the English all the country has to offer? Burn's "A Man's a man for a that" is maybe a direction one could consider when wondering about "things" to sing about:greengrin?

There's something wrong with a fighting spirit, rising to be great again?

Granted, the Scottish National Team were never "great" (though we did become unofficial world champions beating the english :greengrin).

I canny see why there is anything wrong with fighting spirit in a football team. It's all metaphoric remember...nobody actually plans to raise a few thousand hairy, beardy blokes, nash doon the M6 and sack Carlisle or such like. :greengrin

[VivaHiberña]

There's something wrong with a fighting spirit, rising to be great again?

Granted, the Scottish National Team were never "great" (though we did become unofficial world champions beating the english :greengrin).

I canny see why there is anything wrong with fighting spirit in a football team. It's all metaphoric remember...nobody actually plans to raise a few thousand hairy, beardy blokes, nash doon the M6 and sack Carlisle or such like. :greengrin

http://memeorama.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/go-on-gif.gif

[lyonhibs]

In answer to the question, no it shouldn't because it's an absolute dirge of a tune (nothing against the words per se).

In general the Europeans/Latin Americans know what an anthem is all about. GSTQ is even worse than FOS.

But the reality is that it is our anthem, steeped in 1970's pop history, and what on earth are the alternatives??

What did the Scotland Rugby team sing before FOS anyway? Did sports even have national anthems back in the 60's?

[Frazerbob]

Does the word "dirge" ever get used in any context other than when discussing Flower of Scotland?

[Frazerbob]

In answer to the question, no it shouldn't because it's an absolute dirge of a tune (nothing against the words per se).

In general the Europeans/Latin Americans know what an anthem is all about. GSTQ is even worse than FOS.

But the reality is that it is our anthem, steeped in 1970's pop history, and what on earth are the alternatives??

What did the Scotland Rugby team sing before FOS anyway? Did sports even have national anthems back in the 60's?

God Save The Queen until the late 80's.

[--------]

Does the word "dirge" ever get used in any context other than when discussing Flower of Scotland?


Yes. It applies to 'Highland Cathedral' as well.

[snooky]

.....nobody actually plans to raise a few thousand hairy, beardy blokes, nash doon the M6 and sack Carlisle or such like. :greengrin

What if we change that to "Cameron"? :whistle:

[hibsdaft]

Freedom Come All Ye for me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nLGKFTH5sw

[Alfred E Newman]

This
http://youtu.be/4OrGLKpxYy4

[One Day Soon]

There's something wrong with a fighting spirit, rising to be great again?

Granted, the Scottish National Team were never "great" (though we did become unofficial world champions beating the english :greengrin).

I canny see why there is anything wrong with fighting spirit in a football team. It's all metaphoric remember...nobody actually plans to raise a few thousand hairy, beardy blokes, nash doon the M6 and sack Carlisle or such like. :greengrin


Heh, heh. You said 'nash'.

FoS is just maudlin garbage. But deciding on what music to play before games is just about the level of our footballing authorities right enough. What's wrong with the back catalogue of Nazareth, plenty of good choices there? Expect No Mercy perhaps....

Anyway surely some distraught 45er must have written a new 'anthem' by now?

[degenerated]

Given that front man Brian Connolly was Scots, I'd go for the Sweet's Ballroom Blitz.

How about "somebody's gonna get their head kicked in tonight" by the rezillos :greengrin

[Eyrie]

There's something wrong with a fighting spirit, rising to be great again?

Granted, the Scottish National Team were never "great" (though we did become unofficial world champions beating the english :greengrin).

I canny see why there is anything wrong with fighting spirit in a football team. It's all metaphoric remember...nobody actually plans to raise a few thousand hairy, beardy blokes, nash doon the M6 and sack Carlisle or such like. :greengrin

That sounded very tempting until you mentioned the destination. From experience, the females there are enough to discourage any self respecting guy.

[marti1875]

Freedom Come All Ye for me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nLGKFTH5sw

Good grief, anyone who complains about FOS being a "dirge" then says this should be in it's place must've been drinking too much or need their ears cleaned oot!! :greengrin
Rousing it is not and just goes on and on..........nice song? yes....National Anthem material?, absolutely no way from me. :na na:

If i played this to my passengers i know for a fact that it would be met with silence and probably would've sent most to sleep....including myself which would be worrying seeing i'm the driver....ha ha :greengrin
Whilst i'm not saying FOS is perfect, at least it's known and loved throughout the world and i have never ever had a bad word by a single passenger whatsoever about it, only positive words and rounds of applause after i play it, but yes, i know it's not for people from anywhere else to decide.

Who knows what should be the national anthem should be then. :confused:

[Bad Martini]

What if we change that to "Cameron"? :whistle:

I/we tried that in September...and we'll leave it there :grr:


Heh, heh. You said 'nash'.

FoS is just maudlin garbage. But deciding on what music to play before games is just about the level of our footballing authorities right enough. What's wrong with the back catalogue of Nazareth, plenty of good choices there? Expect No Mercy perhaps....

Anyway surely some distraught 45er must have written a new 'anthem' by now?

I remember lots of old school words mate. I'll pepper a few more over the next few posts, ken? Barry! (Scots; the only language where you can ask a question and state you are pleased by using two names only, and most folk understand - bit like the old saying "you would though?" and "would ye?") :greengrin

Rest of your post about FoS is pish though but I do agree the authorities are even "pisher" :thumbsup:


That sounded very tempting until you mentioned the destination. From experience, the females there are enough to discourage any self respecting guy.

Bearing in mind the hairy, beardy and scary looking posse of utter bammers, you think even the fine ladies of Carlisle would be interested? :wink:


Anyways, given it was announced yesterday the public poll wont be made public....it makes nae odds.

[Eyrie]

Bearing in mind the hairy, beardy and scary looking posse of utter bammers, you think even the fine ladies of Carlisle would be interested? :wink:
Should I admit in public that one used to be interested, although I had hair back then and wasn't a beardy?

[Mibbes Aye]

It sounds horrendous though in my opinion. I cringe when I hear that note. Its at the "tae think again" bit. Hideous.


There's only one note that doesn't work and the majority of people don't even notice.

Sorry Peeve but it's very noticeable and absolutely brutal, like having your ears grated whilst someone stabs them sharply with a screwdriver.

It doesn't work.

[Mibbes Aye]

Sorry Peeve but it's very noticeable and absolutely brutal, like having your ears grated whilst someone stabs them sharply with a screwdriver.

It doesn't work.

Meant to be more constructive in my reply :greengrin

I don't know the bagpipes - what's the actual problem in being able to generate the right note? Are there alternatives?

[Hibrandenburg]

Let's just not have one. Be funny as **** just to have a minutes silence during the pre match ceremonies.

[Peevemor]

Meant to be more constructive in my reply :greengrin

I don't know the bagpipes - what's the actual problem in being able to generate the right note? Are there alternatives?


In great highland bagpipeland, we don't live by the same rules as other musicians (not that we give a toss!). The 'classic' ghb scale consists of 9 notes, from A to A with an extra "low G" lopped on the bottom. Pipers call these notes low G, low A, B, C, D, E, F, G, high A. Firstly the A isn't an A at all, but something between Bb and B. Secondly, the bagpipe scale is, in fact, in mixolydian mode (as the Martini radge rightly said), so assuming A is A (which it isn't) the scale is G, A, B, C#, D, E, F#, G, A.

Now the "think" note in FoS falls on the bagpipe C#, when we really need a C natural. The fingering of the GHB can be seen here

https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTuTc3q5TYJorKz-VODAVHJwPQJTBveDF4BDqBbd5P2UDpghCvrMA

You can see that the C(#) is played with the middle and ring fingers of the right hand raised. However, if you lift your pinkie and lower your ring finger, a perfectly acceptable C natural can be obtained. This, however, doesn't please the piping establishment. In the same vein, the F(#) can be turned into an F natural simply by lowering the ring finger of the left hand. Both the C and F naturals will only work if you have a decent (not too easy) chanter reed and won't work at all on the practice chanter (which could explain why they're never taught).

So it's perfectly doable, as can be heard here on the Chillipipers (mediocre) version.

Flower Of Scotland - Red Hot Chilli Pipers : http://youtu.be/PS4QD4Kr7y4

Well you did ask! :greengrin

[Benny Brazil]

Cant believe no-one has suggested BA Robertsons classic from 1982 :greengrin

[theonlywayisup]

Cant believe no-one has suggested BA Robertsons classic from 1982 :greengrin

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1N95aeSLtA4

We have the winner :saltireflag

[tamig]

In great highland bagpipeland, we don't live by the same rules as other musicians (not that we give a toss!). The 'classic' ghb scale consists of 9 notes, from A to A with an extra "low G" lopped on the bottom. Pipers call these notes low G, low A, B, C, D, E, F, G, high A. Firstly the A isn't an A at all, but something between Bb and B. Secondly, the bagpipe scale is, in fact, in mixolydian mode (as the Martini radge rightly said), so assuming A is A (which it isn't) the scale is G, A, B, C#, D, E, F#, G, A.

Now the "think" note in FoS falls on the bagpipe C#, when we really need a C natural. The fingering of the GHB can be seen here

https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTuTc3q5TYJorKz-VODAVHJwPQJTBveDF4BDqBbd5P2UDpghCvrMA

You can see that the C(#) is played with the middle and ring fingers of the right hand raised. However, if you lift your pinkie and lower your ring finger, a perfectly acceptable C natural can be obtained. This, however, doesn't please the piping establishment. In the same vein, the F(#) can be turned into an F natural simply by lowering the ring finger of the left hand. Both the C and F naturals will only work if you have a decent (not too easy) chanter reed and won't work at all on the practice chanter (which could explain why they're never taught).

So it's perfectly doable, as can be heard here on the Chillipipers (mediocre) version.

Flower Of Scotland - Red Hot Chilli Pipers : http://youtu.be/PS4QD4Kr7y4

Well you did ask! :greengrin
What a great explanation. Cheers for that. I had always assumed the pipes just couldn't hit the note. I really don't see why they can't just play a true C then.

[Peevemor]

What a great explanation. Cheers for that. I had always assumed the pipes just couldn't hit the note. I really don't see why they can't just play a true C then.

My old band played at a few internationals (on our own) and we did. The problem is that if you take say 10 pipers who are in tune with each other in terms of the classic GHB scale (it does happen occasionally!) and get them to play a C natural together by "false fingering" as described above, the result will probably be horrendously out of tune - extra care is required when selecting reeds if you know a C natural is needed.

[Mibbes Aye]

In great highland bagpipeland, we don't live by the same rules as other musicians (not that we give a toss!). The 'classic' ghb scale consists of 9 notes, from A to A with an extra "low G" lopped on the bottom. Pipers call these notes low G, low A, B, C, D, E, F, G, high A. Firstly the A isn't an A at all, but something between Bb and B. Secondly, the bagpipe scale is, in fact, in mixolydian mode (as the Martini radge rightly said), so assuming A is A (which it isn't) the scale is G, A, B, C#, D, E, F#, G, A.

Now the "think" note in FoS falls on the bagpipe C#, when we really need a C natural. The fingering of the GHB can be seen here

https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTuTc3q5TYJorKz-VODAVHJwPQJTBveDF4BDqBbd5P2UDpghCvrMA

You can see that the C(#) is played with the middle and ring fingers of the right hand raised. However, if you lift your pinkie and lower your ring finger, a perfectly acceptable C natural can be obtained. This, however, doesn't please the piping establishment. In the same vein, the F(#) can be turned into an F natural simply by lowering the ring finger of the left hand. Both the C and F naturals will only work if you have a decent (not too easy) chanter reed and won't work at all on the practice chanter (which could explain why they're never taught).

So it's perfectly doable, as can be heard here on the Chillipipers (mediocre) version.

Flower Of Scotland - Red Hot Chilli Pipers : http://youtu.be/PS4QD4Kr7y4

Well you did ask! :greengrin

Cheers for that Peevemor, early candidate for post of the year :greengrin

I was a chorister and a timpanist in my younger days so I know notation and scales but didn't really have a clue about some of the modes that matter if you play something like the pipes.

Genuinely fascinating and informative, thanks :aok:

[Peevemor]

Cheers for that Peevemor, early candidate for post of the year :greengrin

I was a chorister and a timpanist in my younger days so I know notation and scales but didn't really have a clue about some of the modes that matter if you play something like the pipes.

Genuinely fascinating and informative, thanks :aok:

No problem. I'm actually salaried to teach this stuff, but I'll let you have that one free. :greengrin

[superfurryhibby]

Cheers for that Peevemor, early candidate for post of the year :greengrin

I was a chorister and a timpanist in my younger days so I know notation and scales but didn't really have a clue about some of the modes that matter if you play something like the pipes.

Genuinely fascinating and informative, thanks :aok:

It was rather good and is why, despite being a pedantic, work skiving at times, radge who maybes has come to like Hibs net more than the burden these days.

I would like something else, not sure what though.

[Mibbes Aye]

It was rather good and is why, despite being a pedantic, work skiving at times, radge who maybes has come to like Hibs net more than the burden these days.

I would like something else, not sure what though.

:greengrin

And :agree:

[Mibbes Aye]

No problem. I'm actually salaried to teach this stuff, but I'll let you have that one free. :greengrin

I thought .net just extended to sponsoring players and the odd good deal for PMs.

I'm pleasantly surprised they pay you to promote better understanding of the bagpipes :greengrin