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View Full Version : The end for Craig?



KeithTheHibby
08-02-2015, 10:23 AM
Not intended as a Craig bashing thread however I do think he is on borrowed time in the team.
With Robertson, Allan and McGeogh as good as first picks and the signing of Fyvie I really don't see a first team place for our captain.

Thoughts?

Danderhall Hibs
08-02-2015, 10:28 AM
Not intended as a Craig bashing thread however I do think he is on borrowed time in the team.
With Robertson, Allan and McGeogh as good as first picks and the signing of Fyvie I really don't see a first team place for our captain.

Thoughts?

Probably. Although Robertson could lose out.

Onion
08-02-2015, 10:38 AM
Still think Craig can have a future at Hibs, if he's prepared to accept a lesser role. IMO responsibility does not sit well with him. He's not a good captain, not a great role model and gets too frustrated during games. But he can be a good player. Stubbs now has a great problem choosing from a decent set of midfielders and I'd still include Craig in that list.

Monts
08-02-2015, 10:43 AM
I think Craig has been written off by too many fans to be able to make it at hibs now.

Danderhall Hibs
08-02-2015, 10:44 AM
I think Craig has been written off by too many fans to be able to make it at hibs now.

:agree: too far gone now.

jimmyboco1875
08-02-2015, 11:22 AM
Even if he does get dropped to the bench there won't be many teams in spl to have a sub as decent as craig in there team

Bronson
08-02-2015, 11:29 AM
Contract is up in the summer I believe. Would be very surprised if it's renewed, I don't really see a place for him in our team anymore.

MWHIBBIES
08-02-2015, 11:29 AM
Probably. Although Robertson could lose out.Absolutely not.

matty_f
08-02-2015, 11:47 AM
I think when you look at the options that Stubbs has now, Craig can't consider himself an automatic first pick. Mcgeouch brings more to the team and Robertson plays the holding roll better than Craig.



It remains to be seen of Fyvie can lay claim to a first team spot, but if he does then Craig looks likely to be the one to drop out.

ScottM1875
08-02-2015, 12:03 PM
By what I saw yesterday, and what I've heard about him, Fyvie seems like a better player, who also fits into stubbs' style of play better than Craig. I reckon Craig can regain his form of 2/3 seasons ago at another club, but not at this one, and wish him all the best if he does move on, which I'm sure he would prefer to sitting on the bench.

J-C
08-02-2015, 12:09 PM
AS should have changed captains immediately he came in, this would've lifted the pressure off Craig and allowed him to just play football, unfortunately the pressures of last season and this has affected him and his abilities and maybe it would be best if he moved on.

Deansy
08-02-2015, 12:16 PM
I just wish someone would bring out the player in Liam Craig, that he was for St.Johnstone - on his game, he'd make it almost impossible for AS NOT to play him !!

weonlywon6-2
08-02-2015, 12:18 PM
I think Craig has been written off by too many fans to be able to make it at hibs now.
Also that he has had a lot of time and it's maybe just not happening for him

NAE NOOKIE
08-02-2015, 12:20 PM
He gets hooked too many times to be captain material and it would perhaps help him to lose that role. I have to say Fyvie looked decent, which probably aint good news for LC.

The thing is though that there is no guarantee that Fyvie, McGeough or Allan are going to stay, especially if we don't go up, so I wouldn't be so quick to write off Liam Craig as a Hibs player.

J-C
08-02-2015, 12:22 PM
Due to flu I wasn't there yesterday but this was a game Craig should've strolled and taken control of but by all accounts he was fairly poor once again.

Danderhall Hibs
08-02-2015, 12:30 PM
AS should have changed captains immediately he came in, this would've lifted the pressure off Craig and allowed him to just play football, unfortunately the pressures of last season and this has affected him and his abilities and maybe it would be best if he moved on.

Believe it or not I agree with you.


Due to flu I wasn't there yesterday but this was a game Craig should've strolled and taken control of but by all accounts he was fairly poor once again.

Back to nrmal here though - why is it ok for say Scott Allan not to take control of the game yesterday? We had to wait on McGeough coming on for someone to take control.

Hibeesmad
08-02-2015, 12:37 PM
I've always believed that his best position has been playing just behind the striker?

blackpoolhibs
08-02-2015, 12:42 PM
I've always believed that his best position has been playing just behind the striker?

It appears most think he's more effective just behind the manager. :wink:

Borderhibbie76
08-02-2015, 12:46 PM
[QUOTE=Danderhall Hibs;4297230]Believe it or not I agree with you.



Back to nrmal here though - why is it ok for say Scott Allan not to take control of the game yesterday? We had to wait on McGeough coming on for someone to take control.[/QUOTE

I know ur a massive fan of Craig and fair play but Allan controlled the match yesterday and deservedly won MOM. No need to make up nonsense in your defence of Craig who was very very poor yesterday

Ronniekirk
08-02-2015, 01:01 PM
[QUOTE=Danderhall Hibs;4297230]Believe it or not I agree with you.



Back to nrmal here though - why is it ok for say Scott Allan not to take control of the game yesterday? We had to wait on McGeough coming on for someone to take control.[/QUOTE

I know ur a massive fan of Craig and fair play but Allan controlled the match yesterday and deservedly won MOM. No need to make up nonsense in your defence of Craig who was very very poor yesterday
Think it's fair to say we haven't consistently seen Craig at his best , but our squad isn't that big and we need everyone to play a part probabably at some stage including the play offs
I don't think he copes well with Captaincy and we don't seem to have found a position for him to be scoring the way he did with St Johnstone

HiBremian
08-02-2015, 01:10 PM
It appears most think he's more effective just behind the manager. :wink:

Isn't his usual game to play just behind the ref???


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Eyrie
08-02-2015, 01:18 PM
Much will depend on who has been targeted as summer signings for our midfield and wether we keep McGeoch and Fyvie, but right now I'd be surprised if Craig isn't given the opportunity to kickstart his career elsewhere.

Monts
08-02-2015, 01:23 PM
[QUOTE=Danderhall Hibs;4297230]Believe it or not I agree with you.



Back to nrmal here though - why is it ok for say Scott Allan not to take control of the game yesterday? We had to wait on McGeough coming on for someone to take control.[/QUOTE

I know ur a massive fan of Craig and fair play but Allan controlled the match yesterday and deservedly won MOM. No need to make up nonsense in your defence of Craig who was very very poor yesterday

I know what you are saying but I'm not sure he was deserving of the man of the match award. Certainly wasn't the consensus around me.

lucky
08-02-2015, 01:40 PM
LC was ok yesterday but no one really played that well. We won in second gear. LC gets more stick than most but he's not anywhere near as bad as some make out on here

J-C
08-02-2015, 01:44 PM
Believe it or not I agree with you.



Back to nrmal here though - why is it ok for say Scott Allan not to take control of the game yesterday? We had to wait on McGeough coming on for someone to take control.


Allan plays to a very high level every game and it was noticable 3-4 games ago when he had a fairly quiet one as people mentioned it, Craig has a fairly quiet, not doing very much most weeks and only has the odd good game, this is the main difference. We also noticed when being replaced by McGeouch how the game was changed by Dylan's pace and drive when on the ball.

Look I have no agenda against Craig and was delighted when he signed but being made captain and his very poor performances over the past season and a half ( the odd few games an exception ) I just feel it would be best if he moved on, he should've done so at the end of the season.

Stranraer
08-02-2015, 01:50 PM
Not intended as a Craig bashing thread however I do think he is on borrowed time in the team.
With Robertson, Allan and McGeogh as good as first picks and the signing of Fyvie I really don't see a first team place for our captain.

Thoughts?

I agree and would rather see Robertson start than Craig, I haven't thought he was capable of the first team since the 5-3 win over Stranraer.

JimBHibees
09-02-2015, 10:53 AM
If he isnt in the team he would be a very good sub to have. He has done ok this season and things arent really running for him at present (Raith he had a number of chances, on another day would have scored a couple). He is a good professional and is a good balance considering alot of our players are pretty young. He will be an important player between now and the end of the season.

Onion
09-02-2015, 11:41 AM
If we don't go up, don't expect Allan, Fyvie and McGeough to hang around in the Champ for another season, so Stubbs would do well to keep Craig on board meantime. We might need him.

Spike Mandela
09-02-2015, 11:49 AM
Maybe he is captain for other reasons in the dressing room. He always seems articulate and intelligent in interviews and perhaps commands the respect of his team mates.

Hopefully his form and confidence hasn't deserted him completely and we can get the player I hoped we'd signed when we got him from St Johnstone.

JimBHibees
09-02-2015, 12:17 PM
Maybe he is captain for other reasons in the dressing room. He always seems articulate and intelligent in interviews and perhaps commands the respect of his team mates.

Hopefully his form and confidence hasn't deserted him completely and we can get the player I hoped we'd signed when we got him from St Johnstone.

I am sure that is exactly the case, he appears to be a very good professional which is what we need as we do have a pretty young squad. Not altogether sure the captaincy sits as comfortably as it might and think it may have been better if someone else was given it however I think he has responded pretty well given where we were in May.

HappyHibby93
09-02-2015, 12:31 PM
would say that he hasn't had enough impressive displays to win over the fans, I would try and motivate him by telling him to earn his next contract in the next
few months.
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Mathias Jack
09-02-2015, 12:39 PM
I am sure that is exactly the case, he appears to be a very good professional which is what we need as we do have a pretty young squad. Not altogether sure the captaincy sits as comfortably as it might and think it may have been better if someone else was given it however I think he has responded pretty well given where we were in May.


I believe there's a good player in there somewhere, he doesn't become a bad player overnight. That said, most players would've struggled in our side last year. So I would've thought LC should be thriving under Stubbsy this season...but he hasn't. Repeating what others have said, his future hinges on the future of Allan, McGeouch etc etc.

Was thinking of a future captain though. Gray for me, Fontaine to fill in when DG isn't available.

Dashing Bob S
09-02-2015, 12:43 PM
:agree: too far gone now.

I think short of pulling a load of kids out of a burning orphanage (in Leith) there is little that Craig can do to redeem himself in the eyes of a big element the Hibs support. He had the grave misfortune to be made captain by the inept Butcher, and, I think, takes a lot of fan anger on Butcher's behalf. He's a bit like the Butcher surrogate who is still around for us to freely abuse. It's a shame, as I think he's a very decent player, but his interests are now probably best served elsewhere.

Big L
09-02-2015, 04:55 PM
Due to flu I wasn't there yesterday but this was a game Craig should've strolled and taken control of but by all accounts he was fairly poor once again.
He was poor, believe me ! We improved dramatically when Dylan came on and I for one think his time is up. He has never hit the heights with us that he did at St Jon's.

wills
09-02-2015, 05:51 PM
AS must see something in him to have him as captain and selected to start most games this season.

I trust AS to get it right

ancient hibee
09-02-2015, 05:56 PM
I was impressed at the League Cup game when Kennedy missed his penalty and Craig immediately went and consoled him but somehow he just doesn't fit into the way we are trying to play now.I think it's the hangover from last season.His first thought always seems to be to play the ball sideways or back.

madhatter
09-02-2015, 06:10 PM
Whilst it might temporarily damage his confidence, I think removing him from his captain duties may well help. He spends too much time looking around him and trying not to mess up that sadly he does (e.g. under-hit 3 crosses in the first half which looked like he was trying not to over-hit them rather than anything else). This also shows in his passing and shooting - at the moment there doesn't seem to be conviction to smack the ball, instead it is soft touches.

I respect him for the amount of abuse he has taken and will still take. Can't be easy for the guy, he is always first to be targeted.

I think Hanlon has been superb this season but in that game...he was quite bad but yet the criticism for him from the stands wasn't as bad as that delivered to Craig (e.g. second half, he lets the ball run by him with opposition player right through on goal - Fontaine had to cover).

We need to remember, before Craig joined us, he was younger and faster, a player who had confidence and played with freedom. Over the years, through defensive, negative tactics, he has lost pace, grown older and lost confidence. This is probably the first year at Hibs where he is playing in a decent footballing team.

J-C
09-02-2015, 07:39 PM
Whilst it might temporarily damage his confidence, I think removing him from his captain duties may well help. He spends too much time looking around him and trying not to mess up that sadly he does (e.g. under-hit 3 crosses in the first half which looked like he was trying not to over-hit them rather than anything else). This also shows in his passing and shooting - at the moment there doesn't seem to be conviction to smack the ball, instead it is soft touches.

I respect him for the amount of abuse he has taken and will still take. Can't be easy for the guy, he is always first to be targeted.

I think Hanlon has been superb this season but in that game...he was quite bad but yet the criticism for him from the stands wasn't as bad as that delivered to Craig (e.g. second half, he lets the ball run by him with opposition player right through on goal - Fontaine had to cover).

We need to remember, before Craig joined us, he was younger and faster, a player who had confidence and played with freedom. Over the years, through defensive, negative tactics, he has lost pace, grown older and lost confidence. This is probably the first year at Hibs where he is playing in a decent footballing team.


He only joined us in the summer of 2013, how much bloody pace and and confidence has he lost in 20 months and isn't that much older, please don't try and use these for excuses when they don't exist.

hibs0666
09-02-2015, 07:44 PM
It will be interesting to see who gets targeted by the boo radges if Craig gets dropped. Oxley probably, Hanlon maybe?

SanFranHibs
09-02-2015, 07:51 PM
I think Craig has been written off by too many fans to be able to make it at hibs now.


Until he walks ascends the stairs and lifts the Scottish Cup in May :greengrin

:flag:

madhatter
09-02-2015, 08:05 PM
He only joined us in the summer of 2013, how much bloody pace and and confidence has he lost in 20 months and isn't that much older, please don't try and use these for excuses when they don't exist.

Excuse me? Are you trying to tell me that it is impossible to lose pace and confidence in 20 months? That is insane talk as is clearly proven through the situation with Harris. Looks slower, looks less confident and looks a lesser player...all in about 6months. Just to add a bit of humour, someone could become Zeefuik or Nade size in 20 months easy - would they still be as pacey and exude confidence? I think my comment was well-rounded and simply stated that he has had serious amounts of pelters when in actual fact he has only played in a half-decent team for 6 months. Not saying he is a good player, just saying I've seen other players in the team have garbage games and Craig still gets the abuse.

Last season, Craig was almost playing CB, if you are trying to tell me that he has not changed as a player since he joined Hibs (negative play from past season(s)), what are you trying to suggest?

Sad day when I hear the club captain of Hibs getting cheered off the park by his own fans. No matter how bad he is. I could understand if he wasn't trying but it is clear he is trying. No doubting he has not been good enough though.

J-C
09-02-2015, 09:39 PM
Excuse me? Are you trying to tell me that it is impossible to lose pace and confidence in 20 months? That is insane talk as is clearly proven through the situation with Harris. Looks slower, looks less confident and looks a lesser player...all in about 6months. Just to add a bit of humour, someone could become Zeefuik or Nade size in 20 months easy - would they still be as pacey and exude confidence? I think my comment was well-rounded and simply stated that he has had serious amounts of pelters when in actual fact he has only played in a half-decent team for 6 months. Not saying he is a good player, just saying I've seen other players in the team have garbage games and Craig still gets the abuse.

Last season, Craig was almost playing CB, if you are trying to tell me that he has not changed as a player since he joined Hibs (negative play from past season(s)), what are you trying to suggest?

Sad day when I hear the club captain of Hibs getting cheered off the park by his own fans. No matter how bad he is. I could understand if he wasn't trying but it is clear he is trying. No doubting he has not been good enough though.


Using Harris is a completely different situation as he had a serious ankle injury which he is yet to recover mentally from.

Craig hasn't lost any real pace as he wasn't the speediest to start with, he came as an attacking midfielder and when used by Fenlon in his 1st 6 months here, he was our top scorer and playing fairly well, enter the mind of Butcher who went about detroying the confidence of the whole team. Craig started playing deeper under Butcher, as a DM which doesn't suit his natural play and unfortunately he's still playing like his hands are tied and he's unwilling to open his game up to the attacking midfielder we all thought we were getting. He shows the odd glimpses but not enough and with the younger crop of attacking mids at the club, the end of the road looks closer for him come the summer.

I wanted it to work for him and this seaason playing in the Championship he had a great chance to turn around the support but he just hasn't managed to do it.

Borderhibbie76
09-02-2015, 10:14 PM
Until he walks ascends the stairs and lifts the Scottish Cup in May :greengrin

:flag:

Never been his greatest fan tho he isnt as bad as many make out. .but if he lifts THAT cup he will quickly win everyone over that's for sure.

Brightside
09-02-2015, 10:52 PM
Excuse me? Are you trying to tell me that it is impossible to lose pace and confidence in 20 months? That is insane talk as is clearly proven through the situation with Harris. Looks slower, looks less confident and looks a lesser player...all in about 6months. Just to add a bit of humour, someone could become Zeefuik or Nade size in 20 months easy - would they still be as pacey and exude confidence? I think my comment was well-rounded and simply stated that he has had serious amounts of pelters when in actual fact he has only played in a half-decent team for 6 months. Not saying he is a good player, just saying I've seen other players in the team have garbage games and Craig still gets the abuse.

Last season, Craig was almost playing CB, if you are trying to tell me that he has not changed as a player since he joined Hibs (negative play from past season(s)), what are you trying to suggest?

Sad day when I hear the club captain of Hibs getting cheered off the park by his own fans. No matter how bad he is. I could understand if he wasn't trying but it is clear he is trying. No doubting he has not been good enough though.

Butcher totally changed his style of play. I still think Craig can be an important player for Hibs but he needs the same support from the fans that he is currently getting from Stubbs. Robertson was another player who was damaged by Butcher as was most of our defence. We have ball players in our CHs and its only under Stubbs that we are seeing that. The way we keep the ball now and play it from back to front is a totally differnent way to play compared to what Butcher forced on them. Anyone thinking we should get rid of Craig is wrong. He's still got loads to give.

majorhibs
09-02-2015, 11:58 PM
It will be interesting to see who gets targeted by the boo radges if Craig gets dropped. Oxley probably, Hanlon maybe?

The "boo radges" ? Tell you what, nowadays, there is an element, not attractive, who seem to only want to slate what is going on around them! The "boo radges" used to go mental when we had bad results in the early 70s at my first attendances, scaring the s#%#t out of me & my young schoolage mates, but aw this nowadays "boo boys terrible" etc talk nowadays, is just slaver. There was big style boo boys before when Hibs played. Check out Bertie Aulds last few games as an EG.

we are hibs
10-02-2015, 07:31 AM
a captain who gives up on a ball in the first that he could've kept in. sums him up.