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Half Pint
07-02-2015, 05:59 PM
Reading the match day thread he seems to be getting pelters again for his performance today.

Are his performance's what is expected of a Hibernian captain ?

What does AS see in him because if the majority on Hibs.net are to believed he is a waste of a jersey.

If he's good enough for Alan Stubbs then he's good enough for me. Thoughts please. :wink:

Cameron1875
07-02-2015, 06:04 PM
Honestly don't think the mood in the stadium matches .net in regards to Liam Craig.

He takes pelters at ER yet many on here are supportive of him.

His performance today was abysmal and since he wasn't captain then easier to sub him. Doesn't look good if a manager subs his Captain.

Northernhibee
07-02-2015, 06:04 PM
Twelve pager and two bans.

Heisenberg
07-02-2015, 06:05 PM
He won't get a game with Fyvie having signed on.

Pretty Boy
07-02-2015, 06:06 PM
Tbh I thought he was ok today but he does lack that wee bit of creativity and spark that McGeough offers. Stubbs hooked him after an hour today and we went on to win comfortably from that point with his replacement scoring one and being well involved during his half hour run out.

Craig is probably unlucky in the sense that McGeough and Allan have proven such astute signings and Robertson has shown such an improvement in the last few months. He's not a terrible player by an stretch if the imagination, he just doesn't really excel in any areas that I can see.

Stuarty27
07-02-2015, 06:08 PM
To be fair he was worse last week.

Hopefully the arrival of Fyvie signals the end.

Fontaine for captain, he was class again today.

1van Sprou7e
07-02-2015, 06:09 PM
Honestly don't think the mood in the stadium matches .net in regards to Liam Craig.

He takes pelters at ER yet many on here are supportive of him.

His performance today was abysmal and since he wasn't captain then easier to sub him. Doesn't look good if a manager subs his Captain.

Yeah I noticed he wasn't wearing an armband but didn't see anyone else wearing one. Think he was still captain today though

brog
07-02-2015, 06:10 PM
Do we really need a Liam Craig thread after every game? I can't be alone in finding this tiresome, I mean how many times can people keep posting the same thing?

Pretty Boy
07-02-2015, 06:11 PM
Yeah I noticed he wasn't wearing an armband but didn't see anyone else wearing one. Think he was still captain today though

Stevenson was captain today.

Half Pint
07-02-2015, 06:15 PM
Do we really need a Liam Craig thread after every game? I can't be alone in finding this tiresome, I mean how many times can people keep posting the same thing?
I find it tiresome the constant bashing on some threads on here of our own plays Brog.
Just asking the question as to why was he again being singled out on the Match Day thread.

If if you don't like a thread don't reply. :rolleyes:

lucky
07-02-2015, 06:20 PM
I thought he did as well as the rest of them. We won an entertaining game in second gear

Stuarty27
07-02-2015, 06:20 PM
To be fair, everyone has made their point and another thread aint gonna change peoples mind.

I don't rate him one bit and Danderhall hibs thinks he is a player. Think we all need to get over it.

HappyAsHellas
07-02-2015, 06:21 PM
Do we really need a Liam Craig thread after every game? I can't be alone in finding this tiresome, I mean how many times can people keep posting the same thing?

One guy in section 43 was screaming at him from the off today, it's really quite embarrassing. Gray played a cross into the box which didn't make it past the first defender and all was well. Ditto for Lewis Stevenson. Craig plays a cross into the box which clears the first defenders and this guy starts screaming at him telling him to join St Mirren. Yes it's tiresome every week but I thought Craig wasn't that bad today, however I'll leave that up to Mr Stubbs. Perhaps these guys should make an appointment with Mr Stubbs and let him know how inept he is at his job and then I'm sure we could progress as a club.:rolleyes:

underscore
07-02-2015, 06:25 PM
Reading the match day thread he seems to be getting pelters again for his performance today.

Are his performance's what is expected of a Hibernian captain ?

What does AS see in him because if the majority on Hibs.net are to believed he is a waste of a jersey.

If he's good enough for Alan Stubbs then he's good enough for me. Thoughts please. :wink:

He's getting pelters from people who don't like Liam Craig. The same type of fans who could never see the good things Lewis or Hanlon brings to the team.

staunchhibby
07-02-2015, 06:26 PM
Getting bit monotous reading about craig.there has been poor performances from others and they dont get the same abuse

MSK
07-02-2015, 06:27 PM
Getting bit monotous reading about craig.there has been poor performances from others and they dont get the same abuseThey would if Craig wasn't playing ..

emerald green
07-02-2015, 06:28 PM
Do we really need a Liam Craig thread after every game? I can't be alone in finding this tiresome, I mean how many times can people keep posting the same thing?

:agree: We've been down this road before as regards Liam Craig. I've defended Craig previously on this forum because I don't think he is as bad a player as some make out. Today, he had a poor game, and was rightly substituted.

I think it was the wrong call leaving Dylan McGeogh on the bench. IMO he is probably Hibs best player after Scott Allan, so if anyone had to drop out of midfield today perhaps it should have been Liam Craig?

Northernhibee
07-02-2015, 06:29 PM
One guy in section 43 was screaming at him from the off today, it's really quite embarrassing. Gray played a cross into the box which didn't make it past the first defender and all was well. Ditto for Lewis Stevenson. Craig plays a cross into the box which clears the first defenders and this guy starts screaming at him telling him to join St Mirren. Yes it's tiresome every week but I thought Craig wasn't that bad today, however I'll leave that up to Mr Stubbs. Perhaps these guys should make an appointment with Mr Stubbs and let him know how inept he is at his job and then I'm sure we could progress as a club.:rolleyes:

Think I might have been near you - he was being booed by I assume the same roaster twenty odd minutes into the game. He doesn't deserve it, no Hibs player did today.

The Harp Awakes
07-02-2015, 06:46 PM
LC doesn't deserve the criticism he receives in my opinion. Allan and McGeouch are very direct, attacking midfielders whereas Craig is playing a different role which often means he plays the ball across the park. Many jump on his back for that but if you watch him, LC very seldom loses the ball.

What I would say is that his poor temperament often affects his performances. He gets too involved moaning and arguing with refs and often gets distracted. The pelters he's getting from some supporters is also not helping him. The fans need to get off his back.

edinburghhibee
07-02-2015, 06:49 PM
If the booing is the incident I think your talking about it was deserved. Their defender let the ball run out over the line and Craig just jogged along behind him. No tackle, no pressure and no will to get the ball in my eyes that's unacceptable when your getting beat off a part time club at home and you are the captain.

Borderhibbie76
07-02-2015, 06:58 PM
LC doesn't deserve the criticism he receives in my opinion. Allan and McGeouch are very direct, attacking midfielders whereas Craig is playing a different role which often means he plays the ball across the park. Many jump on his back for that but if you watch him, LC very seldom loses the ball.

What I would say is that his poor temperament often affects his performances. He gets too involved moaning and arguing with refs and often gets distracted. The pelters he's getting from some supporters is also not helping him. The fans need to get off his back.

Its hard to lose possession when you never take any risks and play short backways or sideways passes 90% of the time mate. I agree he doesnt deserve the abuse or ironic cheers when he was subbed today...but he is a poor player and he needs to move on in summer for the good of both himself and Hibs. Stubbs I think has picked up on tbis which is why Fyvie was signed. if everyone in midfield is fully fit...LC will struggle to get a game now IMO

Hibby Bairn
07-02-2015, 07:06 PM
If the booing is the incident I think your talking about it was deserved. Their defender let the ball run out over the line and Craig just jogged along behind him. No tackle, no pressure and no will to get the ball in my eyes that's unacceptable when your getting beat off a part time club at home and you are the captain.

Why do we boo our own players? We are there to "support" them surely booing just makes things worse.

RMQ1967
07-02-2015, 07:16 PM
LC doesn't deserve the criticism he receives in my opinion. Allan and McGeouch are very direct, attacking midfielders whereas Craig is playing a different role which often means he plays the ball across the park. Many jump on his back for that but if you watch him, LC very seldom loses the ball.

What I would say is that his poor temperament often affects his performances. He gets too involved moaning and arguing with refs and often gets distracted. The pelters he's getting from some supporters is also not helping him. The fans need to get off his back.

Didn't see the game today but was at the game last week and almost every move that went through LC broke down with him. Added to that he missed a couple of pretty good chances with headers. Most frustrating of all was a Hibs clearance that was dropping into the centre that he tried to hoof away instead of trying to bring it down & hold possession - only succeeded in helping it on to a Raith player & from there they get the corner & the goal.
Feel for him as you could see how much the goal against Rangers meant to him but he's the king of the pointless backpass & mostly seems to be running up dead end alleys. Has some super moments but really doesn't bring enough to this team often enough.

AlbertK86
07-02-2015, 07:25 PM
:agree: We've been down this road before as regards Liam Craig. I've defended Craig previously on this forum because I don't think he is as bad a player as some make out. Today, he had a poor game, and was rightly substituted. I think it was the wrong call leaving Dylan McGeogh on the bench. IMO he is probably Hibs best player after Scott Allan, so if anyone had to drop out of midfield today perhaps it should have been Liam Craig?

Mcgeogh only on bench cos he was still recovering from a knock last week

emerald green
07-02-2015, 07:27 PM
Mcgeogh only on bench cos he was still recovering from a knock last week

OK cheers, wasn't aware of that.

Mikey09
07-02-2015, 10:07 PM
Ah. Another Liam Craig thread. This should be exciting....

"He's crap!"
"No he isnae!"
"Aye he is!"
"No he isnae!!"
"Aye he is!!"
"NO HE ISNAE!!!"

And so on.... Here's a thought. If Craig were to leave, who would be the next poor sod to get the scapegoat treatment??

Northernhibee
07-02-2015, 10:17 PM
If the booing is the incident I think your talking about it was deserved. Their defender let the ball run out over the line and Craig just jogged along behind him. No tackle, no pressure and no will to get the ball in my eyes that's unacceptable when your getting beat off a part time club at home and you are the captain.

Totally disagree. Booing our own players or ironically cheering when they are subbed off is never deserved, in fact it's very yammish.

Mikey09
07-02-2015, 10:30 PM
If the booing is the incident I think your talking about it was deserved. Their defender let the ball run out over the line and Craig just jogged along behind him. No tackle, no pressure and no will to get the ball in my eyes that's unacceptable when your getting beat off a part time club at home and you are the captain.


So when Scott Allan tried to take on one man too many, lost the ball and made no attempt to win It back... In fact stood and moaned at the ref (as Craig is accused of doing) not a peep from anyone in he ground. Craig does what you say and is jeered?? Double standards no??

Danderhall Hibs
07-02-2015, 10:31 PM
So when Scott Allan tried to take on one man too many, lost the ball and made no attempt to win It back... In fact stood and moaned at the ref (as Craig is accused of doing) not a peep from anyone in he ground. Craig does what you say and is jeered?? Double standards no??

It's hypocrisy.

Half Pint
07-02-2015, 10:33 PM
So when Scott Allan tried to take on one man too many, lost the ball and made no attempt to win It back... In fact stood and moaned at the ref (as Craig is accused of doing) not a peep from anyone in he ground. Craig does what you say and is jeered?? Double standards no??


It's hypocrisy.
Double standards :agree:

Hiber-nation
07-02-2015, 11:14 PM
The abuse he's been getting this season is ridiculous as for the most part he's been decent enough.

But a lot will be down to last season when he was Hibs captain and was hiding in some games. That was poor.

brog
07-02-2015, 11:18 PM
I find it tiresome the constant bashing on some threads on here of our own plays Brog.
Just asking the question as to why was he again being singled out on the Match Day thread.

If if you don't like a thread don't reply. :rolleyes:

I agree your first sentence but your original comments were a tad ambiguous & starting a thread about a player is a guaranteed way to invite more criticism of that player. You'll also have to explain to me how I can express my disquiet about a thread without commenting on it!

Mikey09
07-02-2015, 11:25 PM
The abuse he's been getting this season is ridiculous as for the most part he's been decent enough.

But a lot will be down to last season when he was Hibs captain and was hiding in some games. That was poor.


I will say again... Dempster said it's time to forget about last seasons debacle and concentrate on what we are doing now. To me Liam Craig gets grief for things others don't. I don't agree with fans jeering players mistakes but if they're gonna do it then surely it should be every player?! It's not... So it's without doubt a witch hunt against Craig. And that is childish...

Hiber-nation
07-02-2015, 11:27 PM
I will say again... Dempster said it's time to forget about last seasons debacle and concentrate on what we are doing now. To me Liam Craig gets grief for things others don't. I don't agree with fans jeering players mistakes but if they're gonna do it then surely it should be every player?! It's not... So it's without doubt a witch hunt against Craig. And that is childish...

I don't agree with it either but it's clear some folk still bear grudges.

Mikey09
07-02-2015, 11:38 PM
I don't agree with it either but it's clear some folk still bear grudges.


Glad you agree. I would say to those folk it's time to grow up and support EVERY Hibs player Stubbs selects and not single out guys they bear a grudge towards. As I said, bloody childish and the double standards is quite embarrassing and laughable...

andy1875
07-02-2015, 11:53 PM
I can already write the script on Liam Craig.

He'll more than likely leave us at the end of the season and sign for the likes of Motherwell, St Mirren or St Johnstone. He'll score between 10-12 next season and be a right good player again, as he was at St J pre us.

I just don't think he'll ever settle here, mainly due to the abuse he gets as Captain of a relegated side.

But he was a cracking player for St Johnstone and I reckon he'll do well if or when he leaves us.

Similar story to that of Paul Hartley.

My_Wife_Camille
08-02-2015, 12:32 AM
Was poor again. Speak volumes that we scored 2 goals within 8 minutes of him being subbed today. What a fantastic goal scored by his replacement by the way!

Humo
08-02-2015, 12:56 AM
Why do we boo our own players? We are there to "support" them surely booing just makes things worse.


We are there to support the team. No player is bigger than the club and so many people believe booing 'players' is acceptable if they play to a standard below which the ridiculous high entrance fee demands.

Eyrie
08-02-2015, 12:58 PM
We are there to support the team. No player is bigger than the club and so many people believe booing 'players' is acceptable if they play to a standard below which the ridiculous high entrance fee demands.
I'd question how booing a player is supporting the team, since the obvious consequence is that the player's game will suffer which affects the performance of the team as a whole.

And I wonder how many of those who boo our players on the pitch would be happy to be constantly criticised at work by their customers. Or indeed are so quick to criticise in other circumstances - for example if I think that Starbucks is expensive should I give the staff abuse?

lord bunberry
08-02-2015, 01:02 PM
He shouldn't be offered a new contract, he's not as bad as some make out but he's been a massive disappointment since he signed.

brog
08-02-2015, 02:19 PM
Was poor again. Speak volumes that we scored 2 goals within 8 minutes of him being subbed today. What a fantastic goal scored by his replacement by the way!

Yep, Liam C leaving the pitch guaranteed an Arbroath player would score an og! Far more likely that, as often happens, the lower league team tires in the latter stages of a game.

IrnBru22
08-02-2015, 02:23 PM
Yep, Liam C leaving the pitch guaranteed an Arbroath player would score an og! Far more likely that, as often happens, the lower league team tires in the latter stages of a game.

If it didnt hit the arbroath player Fyvie wouldve had a tap in

HappyAsHellas
08-02-2015, 02:27 PM
Was poor again. Speak volumes that we scored 2 goals within 8 minutes of him being subbed today. What a fantastic goal scored by his replacement by the way!

Which totally ignores the fact that it was Craig's excellent cross field pass to Allan/Gray that set up the equaliser.

My_Wife_Camille
08-02-2015, 02:37 PM
Which totally ignores the fact that it was Craig's excellent cross field pass to Allan/Gray that set up the equaliser.
No it doesn't. We scored 1 and conceded 1 in the first hour he was on the pitch and we scored 2 and conceded 0 in the 8 minutes after he left the pitch. Based on that I feel that the team performed better without Liam Craig on the park.

bernz
08-02-2015, 02:56 PM
No it doesn't. We scored 1 and conceded 1 in the first hour he was on the pitch and we scored 2 and conceded 0 in the 8 minutes after he left the pitch. Based on that I feel that the team performed better without Liam Craig on the park.

The last game we lost was the last game Craig didn't play in. Does that change anything?

ancient hibee
08-02-2015, 02:58 PM
Which totally ignores the fact that it was Craig's excellent cross field pass to Allan/Gray that set up the equaliser.


Really?Surely it is what Allan did with after the pass that set up the equaliser.Craig was ok yesterday but given the competition in midfield I think he wants to learn from the effort Robertson is putting in every week.

My_Wife_Camille
08-02-2015, 03:14 PM
The last game we lost was the last game Craig didn't play in. Does that change anything?
Maybe but I don't think so.

We've lost twice as many games this season when Liam Craig has played than when he hasn't. Does that change anything?

Northernhibee
08-02-2015, 03:41 PM
Maybe but I don't think so.

We've lost twice as many games this season when Liam Craig has played than when he hasn't. Does that change anything?

What percentage of games has he played in?

Also on a scale of 1-10 how tedious is it to constantly pick holes in one of our players without ever making note of the good work that they do as well?

My_Wife_Camille
08-02-2015, 04:15 PM
What percentage of games has he played in?

Also on a scale of 1-10 how tedious is it to constantly pick holes in one of our players without ever making note of the good work that they do as well?
These types of post are why these types of discussions are pointless. Just because someone doesn't rate a player doesn't mean they ignore when the player does something good.

I've give Liam Craig credit where I feel it's due. He was excellent against Rangers and Dumbarton this season for example but over the piece, he has not been good enough since singing for Hibs and I think we look better with him out of the team.

Northernhibee
08-02-2015, 04:17 PM
These types of post are why these types of discussions are pointless. Just because someone doesn't rate a player doesn't mean they ignore when the player does something good.

I've give Liam Craig credit where I feel it's due. He was excellent against Rangers and Dumbarton this season for example but over the piece, he has not been good enough since singing for Hibs and I think we look better with him out of the team.

:aok: Aye, right you are then.

El Gubbz
08-02-2015, 08:18 PM
Liam Craig has been horrible this season. He doesn't put any thought into any pass or tackle he makes, acts purely on instinct regardless of the time he has on the ball and the outcome is 9/10 times brutal. Don't like to be negative towards our own players but he doesn't deserve to start every game in our midfield, considering the competition he has for the jersey. Not only that, he also picks up too many needless yellows for moaning. Hope he proves me wrong but I doubt he'll do that until he plays against us.

HappyAsHellas
08-02-2015, 08:25 PM
Some people don't put any thought into what they post.......

edinburghhibee
08-02-2015, 08:37 PM
So when Scott Allan tried to take on one man too many, lost the ball and made no attempt to win It back... In fact stood and moaned at the ref (as Craig is accused of doing) not a peep from anyone in he ground. Craig does what you say and is jeered?? Double standards no??

Not double standards at all. Scotty Allan creates most of our chances as an attacking midfielder therefore overall I'm happy with his contribution to the team. Craig looks to be playing defensive midfield so that's his job to chase, harass and tackle I just don't think he does this.

SunshineOnLeith
08-02-2015, 08:45 PM
Liam Craig has been horrible this season. He doesn't put any thought into any pass or tackle he makes, acts purely on instinct regardless of the time he has on the ball and the outcome is 9/10 times brutal. Don't like to be negative towards our own players but he doesn't deserve to start every game in our midfield, considering the competition he has for the jersey. Not only that, he also picks up too many needless yellows for moaning. Hope he proves me wrong but I doubt he'll do that until he plays against us.

:faf:

coco22
08-02-2015, 08:52 PM
I reckon Craig is obviously past the point of no return in a lot of folks' eyes. He's not been the player we all hoped for but not as bad as the treatment he gets - unlucky to be relied upon, looked up to and come up short during an horrific time for the club. There's better midfielders at the club who will overtake him for a starting place - how he reacts to this will define the remainder of his hibs career

El Gubbz
08-02-2015, 09:05 PM
:faf:

That's just how much he irritates me. He reminds me of Gary Deegan

Mikey09
09-02-2015, 12:17 AM
Not double standards at all. Scotty Allan creates most of our chances as an attacking midfielder therefore overall I'm happy with his contribution to the team. Craig looks to be playing defensive midfield so that's his job to chase, harass and tackle I just don't think he does this.


Eh?? Do you seriously think when Stubbs gives instructions before a game he says "If you lose the ball I want you to work as hard as you can to get goal side and win it back.... But no you Scotty cause you create most of our chances." Played under quite a few managers and NEVER heard any say that. So to reiterate, yeah it's double standards jeering Craig for that yet ignoring the exact same from another player. Personally I don't want Allan to be jeered for that but the same reaction should be afforded to any hibs player including Craig...

monktonharp
09-02-2015, 01:35 AM
Why do we boo our own players? We are there to "support" them surely booing just makes things worse.I will give him a cheer, when he moves on.

eastcoasthibby
09-02-2015, 08:54 AM
LC I think gets so much criticism for a few reasons 1) he has not performed like a captain - little leadership on the pitch, doesn't seem to motivate his team, disappears when things aren't going well, instead of knuckling down and driving by example he starts moaning at ref's looses focus. 2) his performances have not been anywhere near consistent enough - although i personally think the captain mantle is too much for him. 3) Last season he like others didn't have it in them to respond when things were not happening 4)he has a legacy of last season that hangs over him as not having done enough as a captian. 5) The midfield that he is playing with this season is dynamic, have real individual ability to play a short intricate and positive game, this style again in my view is not his strength of style..
Having said all the above, I can see he get's a game as he does provide a degree of balance to the shape, in a defensive and at times attacking presence, he does get into the box and does make telling passes at times, as has been stated he keeps possession well albeit maybe not the way we like but, it is AS's way that we want to keep possession and he does this in a different way from the other 2-3 in the midfield do.
I like everyone else get frustrated with him and his blind passes, attempted over shoulder punts, game slowing play, but I think he does give something that most of us at times don't appreciate, but as things and quality improve in the team he either ups his contribution or will struggle to get starts.
We don't know what AS see's or thinks, but I have no doubt he knows what he wants from his players and Craig has provided that to date, we can debate all we want but that's what counts and slagging, booing, jeering him during a match will not help what i think we all know is a fairly fragile confidence from last year, so lets get off his case and back him and all the rest of the players as we need everyone of them to be playing at their best for the rest of the season.

GGTTH

edinburghhibee
09-02-2015, 06:38 PM
Eh?? Do you seriously think when Stubbs gives instructions before a game he says "If you lose the ball I want you to work as hard as you can to get goal side and win it back.... But no you Scotty cause you create most of our chances." Played under quite a few managers and NEVER heard any say that. So to reiterate, yeah it's double standards jeering Craig for that yet ignoring the exact same from another player. Personally I don't want Allan to be jeered for that but the same reaction should be afforded to any hibs player including Craig...

I don't think I said that, so let's no start greeting. What I have heard said by the managers I've played under is "your an attacking midfielder get into space open up defences and create chances for your strikers" Scotty Allan in my view does this.

I'd also think he would say to a defensive midfielder as it looks Craig is playing "your job is to break up play harass their midfield into errors and get the ball distributed to the attack minded players" Craig in my view doesn't do this enough and although it wasn't me who boo'd him during the incident we are discussing I understand why it was done.

Mikey09
10-02-2015, 03:56 PM
I don't think I said that, so let's no start greeting. What I have heard said by the managers I've played under is "your an attacking midfielder get into space open up defences and create chances for your strikers" Scotty Allan in my view does this.

I'd also think he would say to a defensive midfielder as it looks Craig is playing "your job is to break up play harass their midfield into errors and get the ball distributed to the attack minded players" Craig in my view doesn't do this enough and although it wasn't me who boo'd him during the incident we are discussing I understand why it was done.


I get what you're saying. Certain players have certain jobs. However it's every players job to win the ball back not just one or two. My point was If Craig gets the treatment for losing the ball, standing throwing his arms in the air moaning at the ref then why didn't Allan? I'm sorry but to me that is double standards whether you like it or not. I'm not daft as I understand Allan is the darling of the supporters and Craig is deemed by some to be the reason we are in this league, which is complete nonsense but that's how some folk think. The more they get on his case the safer his passes will become having a bad effect on his game and that of the team. The guy needs the support of everyone and deserves it as well. This won't happen though as some have an agenda against him which is totally childish....