AGM - 28th January 2015 (Updates and Report) - Merged

[Leith Mo]

I lost respect for him when he shot down the road to join Oldham.

Bit unfair. At the time Alex Miller had frozen him out for personal reasons and had Kano training with the kids. If I remember correctly we played Oldham in a pre season friendly, signed Goram and Kano round about the same time signed for Oldham (again assuming my memory isn't playing up. Kano hardly "shot down the road" but I do know that when he came back to these shores a deal was done to take him to the other side of Edinburgh. That mob had even called a press conference but when it came to it Kano just couldn't pull on their rag. He has Hibs in his DNA despite not having universal support for his current activities and approach.

[JimBHibees]

Have to say PB did a great job with meeting minutes. What came across to an extent was the personal bitterness some have towards both RP and STF. I don't feel its fully justified.

1) I don't for a minute think it would make any real difference to Easter Road attendances if RP walk out the door tomorrow, perhaps a few hundred. What will, is a winning and promoted team, the promoted part being hard to achieve this season in my opinion, but possible. RP has admitted mistakes and yes he did, but who in life hasn't.

2) I am an admirer of Sir Tom Farmer, as a business man who, as a young man saw a opportunity and single mindedly followed it through to create the successful business which he did.
As a human being in the way he lives his life, no scandal, providing money for his chosen charities and folowing his chosen faith.
We at Hibs owe STF a huge debit of gratitude, for saving Hibs from becoming another Third Lanark, a statistic in the record book of Scottish football.
Well thats me had my say for what it is worth.

I honestly have never understood that either, criticise fine but the personal abuse is completely uncalled for and mystifying IMO.

[BIGK]

We can only assume it's their idea of a joke. Who knows what the thinking was behind putting Hibs.Net on that one. Mildly amusing though.
For the avoidance of doubt hibs.net don't back anybody, all we do is provide a platform for Hibs fans to discuss all things Hibernian. I know we have said it several times before but there is no editorial policy here. We probably couldn't agree on one anyway. The members here are more than capable of thinking for themselves. If the Admin team here suggested a stance you lot would probably back the opposite just to annoy us. :greengrin


no I wouldn't :greengrin

[Bearders]

He appeared to show signs of that condition. It could also be due to a medical condition. It is difficult to be certain regarding this issue without knowing the facts of Mr S Pia's condition......
The AGM was very well attended and I thought that Mr Craig, Stubbs, Petrie and Ms Dempster presented very well in their vision for Hibs.
It was nice to see Sir Tom Framer give an account of the things that he has done for Hibs and is still doing. STF's contribution is documented in many posts on this and other threads.
As I see it the club has got one debt of 5 million pound paybale over 10 years with no interest payable. This will start in August this year. How many football teams have an interest free mortgage?
The majority of fans at the AGM were happy with the way the club is run and do not want HOH or Buy Hibs to be ruuning OUR CLUB.
I think STF has done a lot for our club and still does a lot. He should not be given the abuse that he gets from a small minority of people.
I look forward to seeing our team being promoted this year and winning silverware soon.

Apologies but when I posted "shameful" I mean the comments attributed to Simon Pia. No foundation for them, just no need. Is that not what many are criticising elements of HoH for doing?

[cabbageandribs1875]

Apologies but when I posted "shameful" I mean the comments attributed to Simon Pia. No foundation for them, just no need. Is that not what many are criticising elements of HoH for doing?


you're absolutely right, some of the comments against paul kane are pretty tasteless as well with someone even suggesting he climbs back under some rock :bitchy: whether he's right or wrong it's incredible some of the abuse hibs fans on here are aiming at a former player of Hibernian FC, i haven't a clue who simon pia(sp) is but now he's getting labelled a jakey etc etc, the guy could possibly have a medical condition ffs, wonder how long it will be before club legend pat stanton gets a little bit of the keyboard abuse as well :rolleyes:

[CallumLaidlaw]

you're absolutely right, some of the comments against paul kane are pretty tasteless as well with someone even suggesting he climbs back under some rock :bitchy: whether he's right or wrong it's incredible some of the abuse hibs fans on here are aiming at a former player of Hibernian FC, i haven't a clue who simon pia(sp) is but now he's getting labelled a jakey etc etc, the guy could possibly have a medical condition ffs, wonder how long it will be before club legend pat stanton gets a little bit of the keyboard abuse as well :rolleyes:

At the same time, being an Ex-player doesnt make you bulletproof. If Pia and Kane want to "shout the loudest" and throw unproven allegations around, they are opening themselves up for a backlash.

[jacomo]

At the same time, being an Ex-player doesnt make you bulletproof. If Pia and Kane want to "shout the loudest" and throw unproven allegations around, they are opening themselves up for a backlash.

:agree:

Pia has accused STF of asset stripping and using Hibs to line his own pocket. No evidence of either, but potentially very hurtful to someone who clearly cares about his reputation. Two wrongs don't make a right but he's opened himself up to scrutiny. If people say he 'looked drunk' at a public event they have more evidence than Pia has produced for his claims.

I genuinely have no idea what Kano is up to, but think he might be easily influenced by others.

[Pete]

:agree:

Pia has accused STF of asset stripping and using Hibs to line his own pocket. No evidence of either, but potentially very hurtful to someone who clearly cares about his reputation. Two wrongs don't make a right but he's opened himself up to scrutiny. If people say he 'looked drunk' at a public event they have more evidence than Pia has produced for his claims.

I genuinely have no idea what Kano is up to, but think he might be easily influenced by others.

I prefer to think of Kano as slightly misguided while Pia has a bit more of a personal vendetta going on.

As a side issue there are some people on social media who are embarrassed by the standing ovation Sir Tom received. I despair sometimes.

[ozzie]

Sorry if it's already been mentioned but someone has a banner saying hibs.net says no to Hsl ponzi deal.
again seome is speaking for me apparently. Can some one point me in the direction of the thread or poll this is refering to.

[iwasthere1972]

Sorry if it's already been mentioned but someone has a banner saying hibs.net says no to Hsl ponzi deal.
again seome is speaking for me apparently. Can some one point me in the direction of the thread or poll this is refering to.

http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hibs/hibs-agm-standing-ovation-for-sir-tom-farmer-1-3672718

[marinello59]

Sorry if it's already been mentioned but someone has a banner saying hibs.net says no to Hsl ponzi deal.
again seome is speaking for me apparently. Can some one point me in the direction of the thread or poll this is refering to.

See post 453 on here.


We can only assume it's their idea of a joke. Who knows what the thinking was behind putting Hibs.Net on that one. Mildly amusing though.
For the avoidance of doubt hibs.net don't back anybody, all we do is provide a platform for Hibs fans to discuss all things Hibernian. I know we have said it several times before but there is no editorial policy here. We probably couldn't agree on one anyway. The members here are more than capable of thinking for themselves. If the Admin team here suggested a stance you lot would probably back the opposite just to annoy us. :greengrin

[lapsedhibee]

Pia has a bit more of a personal vendetta going on.
Why? Did Kwikfit misdiagnose a problem in his car last century? :confused:

[jonty]

Sorry if it's already been mentioned but someone has a banner saying hibs.net says no to Hsl ponzi deal.
again seome is speaking for me apparently. Can some one point me in the direction of the thread or poll this is refering to.

http://www.hibs.net/poll.php?pollid=3830&do=showresults

I think they're making things up again :greengrin

[Pete]

Why? Did Kwikfit misdiagnose a problem in his car last century? :confused:

Beats me.

All I know is that if I want tyres I go to a big yellow garage. Best prices.

[CB_NO3]

We must be the only club in the world who gives an applause to the board 6 months after being relegated. That is why we are a mediocre football club and always will be. I am all for Farmer staying on board for financial reasons but why is Petrie still at this club?

If HSL get their 51% share what is the chance of having a vote to remove Petrie of the board altogether?

[CropleyWasGod]

We must be the only club in the world who gives an applause to the board 6 months after being relegated. That is why we are a mediocre football club and always will be. I am all for Farmer staying on board for financial reasons but why is Petrie still at this club?

If HSL get their 51% share what is the chance of having a vote to remove Petrie of the board altogether?
The applause, and the standing ovation, was for STF and the way in which he dealt with the attacks on him.

[marinello59]

:flag:
We must be the only club in the world who gives an applause to the board 6 months after being relegated. That is why we are a mediocre football club and always will be. I am all for Farmer staying on board for financial reasons but why is Petrie still at this club?

If HSL get their 51% share what is the chance of having a vote to remove Petrie of the board altogether?

Maybe the applause was for STF rather than the board and was partly a message to HoH that their tactics are out of order.

[CB_NO3]

Did STF apoligise for getting his club relegated for the second time during his reign? Just curious. I do admit the personal attacks are poor.

[FranckSuzy]

We must be the only club in the world who gives an applause to the board 6 months after being relegated. That is why we are a mediocre football club and always will be. I am all for Farmer staying on board for financial reasons but why is Petrie still at this club?

If HSL get their 51% share what is the chance of having a vote to remove Petrie of the board altogether?

Can you see progress has been made at all? Not being funny here but with the appointments of Alan Stubbs, Leeann Dempster, George Craig, Craig Flannigan, Graeme Mathie, Eddie May, Joe McBride Jnr., etc, etc, is it not possible that finally we are on the right track?

I doubt anyone would say they were pleased we were relegated BUT, it sure as hell gave the Board, rightly or wrongly, the kick up the erchie to completely overhaul the running of the club. IMHO, it is unrecognisible as the Hibs we all knew and loved (sometimes :wink:). From communication, the first team squad signings, the share issue, community involvement, an actual CEO (!), the academy overhaul, bank debt forgiveness (if that's the correct term)...we ARE vastly improved but, it's not over yet. As AS said last night, we've won nothing yet but he looks forward to speaking to the fans at the end of the season when we've been promoted. That'll do for me just now :aok:

[DaveF]

Did STF apoligise for getting his club relegated for the second time during his reign? Just curious. I do admit the personal attacks are poor.

From Pretty Boy's comments (post #301 in this thread)

He took to the stage to a round of applause. Pia tried to shout him down and STF replied 'I didn't interupt you so give me the same respect'. He then said he had put up with 23 years of hurtful abuse from Pia and had taken it but said he's had enough. He said in that time he accepted he's made mistakes but had always done his very best for Hibs. He explained about the money he had loaned Hibs to take control and how he had built us from a club with negative value to having £19M worth of assets. He asked why he should give the club away for nothing but said he was sick and tired of being personally abused and if the fans wanted the club as far as he was concerned they could have it. He said thay in 23 years not one person or group had made a credible offer for the club. He said Hibs owed him that £5M and as a club we paid our debts. He questioned where else a club could get £5M to be paid over 10 years with no interest and he assured us that money will not come out the share money. He said he won't tolerate the hurtful slagging and slander he is facing in the media and he urged fans to embrace the changes and acknowledge the difficult but positive changes being made.

He recieved a standing ovation from a vast majority of the room at this point. He made a few closing remarks and was applauded again as he left the stage.

Clearly that won't be enough for some, who will scramble around looking for anything to criticise.

[banarc7062]

An excellent well presented report accurately summing up the gist of the evenings business. Well done. GGTTH::thumbsup:

[WillowbraeHibby]

Can you see progress has been made at all? Not being funny here but with the appointments of Alan Stubbs, Leeann Dempster, George Craig, Craig Flannigan, Graeme Mathie, Eddie May, Joe McBride Jnr., etc, etc, is it not possible that finally we are on the right track?

I doubt anyone would say they were pleased we were relegated BUT, it sure as hell gave the Board, rightly or wrongly, the kick up the erchie to completely overhaul the running of the club. IMHO, it is unrecognisible as the Hibs we all knew and loved (sometimes :wink:). From communication, the first team squad signings, the share issue, community involvement, an actual CEO (!), the academy overhaul, bank debt forgiveness (if that's the correct term)...we ARE vastly improved but, it's not over yet. As AS said last night, we've won nothing yet but he looks forward to speaking to the fans at the end of the season when we've been promoted. That'll do for me just now :aok:

:top marks :agree:

[Smartie]

Bit unfair. At the time Alex Miller had frozen him out for personal reasons and had Kano training with the kids. If I remember correctly we played Oldham in a pre season friendly, signed Goram and Kano round about the same time signed for Oldham (again assuming my memory isn't playing up. Kano hardly "shot down the road" but I do know that when he came back to these shores a deal was done to take him to the other side of Edinburgh. That mob had even called a press conference but when it came to it Kano just couldn't pull on their rag. He has Hibs in his DNA despite not having universal support for his current activities and approach.

Absolutely.

I think that he's well and truly barking up the wrong tree on this matter. But he's a former player, a local businessman a good guy and 100% nailed on Hibby. Personal abuse of the man is totally out of order. Fine to criticise some of what he's saying but some of it is way over the top. Unfortunately I think he is surrounded by similarly-minded people who shout loud so it will be hard for him to change his tune.

I think there is an anti-Petrie vendetta there that has blinded him to any possibility that he might be part of anything good. A lot of us are having to rise above some pretty negative views of certain people. The way they have handled the club over recent years really does leave a lot to be desired and their every move deserves scrutiny. But I have to say that I can't see any flaws in it and I seriously hope the fans back it in a big way.

I hope Kano comes round because it would be good for him to be a part of it.

[emerald green]

Well done Andrew, the work yourself and Pretty Boy have done to keep us all informed is much appreciated.

I would just like to second that. Thanks very much to you both. :aok:

[matty_f]

I agree that personal abuse, be that aimed at STF, Petrie, other posters, Paul Kane, HoH, BuyHibs, etc. is out of order and is not what this site is all about.

[CB_NO3]

Can you see progress has been made at all? Not being funny here but with the appointments of Alan Stubbs, Leeann Dempster, George Craig, Craig Flannigan, Graeme Mathie, Eddie May, Joe McBride Jnr., etc, etc, is it not possible that finally we are on the right track?

I doubt anyone would say they were pleased we were relegated BUT, it sure as hell gave the Board, rightly or wrongly, the kick up the erchie to completely overhaul the running of the club. IMHO, it is unrecognisible as the Hibs we all knew and loved (sometimes :wink:). From communication, the first team squad signings, the share issue, community involvement, an actual CEO (!), the academy overhaul, bank debt forgiveness (if that's the correct term)...we ARE vastly improved but, it's not over yet. As AS said last night, we've won nothing yet but he looks forward to speaking to the fans at the end of the season when we've been promoted. That'll do for me just now :aok:
Better on the eye yes, but we are playing poor teams. We are miles behind a club who nearly went out the box a year ago. Ill make my judgement come May I suppose. There are much smaller clubs in Scotland who don't have these luxuries that your talking about but they are much better football teams than us.

The next 3 to 4 years are make or break for this club.

[emerald green]

Better on the eye yes, but we are playing poor teams. We are miles behind a club who nearly went out the box a year ago. Ill make my judgement come May I suppose. There are much smaller clubs in Scotland who don't have these luxuries that your talking about but they are much better football teams than us.

The next 3 to 4 years are make or break for this club.

Who are these much smaller clubs that you are referring to that are "much better football teams than us"? Yet, you also say "we are playing poor teams". :confused:

[CB_NO3]

Who are these much smaller clubs that you are referring to that are "much better football teams than us"? Yet, you also say "we are playing poor teams". :confused:
ICT, St Johnstone, Dundee United, Hamilton to name a few.

[Heisenberg]

ICT, St Johnstone, Dundee United, Hamilton to name a few.

We've only played Dundee United this season and we didn't look a much poorer team at all during that game.

[emerald green]

ICT, St Johnstone, Dundee United, Hamilton to name a few.

When did the current Hibs team / squad play any of the above teams?

The only one of those four we've played recently was Dundee Utd. That was 3-3 AET (lost on pens). I thought Hibs done well against one of the better teams in the SPFL that night, and with a bit of luck could have put them out and we would be playing in the cup semi-final this weekend.

You just seem very reluctant to acknowledge any improvement has been made at the club since the new CEO and Head Coach and their teams have been put in place.

[mim]

I would just like to second that. Thanks very much to you both. :aok:

Thirded
Concise and informative
Many thanks

[Pedantic_Hibee]

Well played, Andrew.

[semaj64]

Great summary for those that were not there

[Hibs07p]

My recollection of Simon Pias battle with STF is that SP used his column in Scotland on Sunday / Scotsman / EEN to attack STF quite regularly, and supported Kennedy in his attempts to takeover Hibs. STF threatened to remove his advertisement account with the Scotsman group unless they got SP under control. He was reigned in, or sacked and the vendetta continues. I accept no responsibility for any inaccuracies in this recollection, as I am in that age group that can't remember what happened yesterday.

:greengrin

[lapsedhibee]

My recollection of Simon Pias battle with STF is that SP used his column in Scotland on Sunday / Scotsman / EEN to attack STF quite regularly, and supported Kennedy in his attempts to takeover Hibs. STF threatened to remove his advertisement account with the Scotsman group unless they got SP under control. He was reigned in, or sacked and the vendetta continues. I accept no responsibility for any inaccuracies in this recollection, as I am in that age group that can't remember what happened yesterday.

:greengrin

:aok:

[blackpoolhibs]

We must be the only club in the world who gives an applause to the board 6 months after being relegated. That is why we are a mediocre football club and always will be. I am all for Farmer staying on board for financial reasons but why is Petrie still at this club?

If HSL get their 51% share what is the chance of having a vote to remove Petrie of the board altogether?

It is amazing, and most folk wanted someone to come in and take the club over. Buyhibs and all the other mobs have with THEIR actions made a very unpopular board popular again.

Now thats funny. :greengrin

[ancient hibee]

My recollection of Simon Pias battle with STF is that SP used his column in Scotland on Sunday / Scotsman / EEN to attack STF quite regularly, and supported Kennedy in his attempts to takeover Hibs. STF threatened to remove his advertisement account with the Scotsman group unless they got SP under control. He was reigned in, or sacked and the vendetta continues. I accept no responsibility for any inaccuracies in this recollection, as I am in that age group that can't remember what happened yesterday.

:greengrin

Think you'll find that the threat to remove his advertisement account is an urban myth.STF had long moved away from running Kwik Fit by then.Didn't Mr.Pia leave Scotsman to become a word spinner for Scottish Labour-another success story.

[lapsedhibee]

Think you'll find that the threat to remove his advertisement account is an urban myth.STF had long moved away from running Kwik Fit by then.Didn't Mr.Pia leave Scotsman to become a word spinner for Scottish Labour-another success story.

Kwikfit was sold to Ford in 1999. At the AGM STF said SP had been criticising him for 23 years, I think, which would place him still at Kwikfit when that started. :dunno:

[ancient hibee]

Kwikfit was sold to Ford in 1999. At the AGM STF said SP had been criticising him for 23 years, I think, which would place him still at Kwikfit when that started. :dunno:

Quite agree.The point I was making was about the removal of of Pia from the Scotsman because of threats over advertising -a myth.

[Bostonhibby]

Kwikfit was sold to Ford in 1999. At the AGM STF said SP had been criticising him for 23 years, I think, which would place him still at Kwikfit when that started. :dunno:
Interesting to see how they have both developed since over the period. It's a big axe to grind and it tells you a lot about farmer that he was charitable enough not to have swatted that fly way back then

[CB_NO3]

When did the current Hibs team / squad play any of the above teams?

The only one of those four we've played recently was Dundee Utd. That was 3-3 AET (lost on pens). I thought Hibs done well against one of the better teams in the SPFL that night, and with a bit of luck could have put them out and we would be playing in the cup semi-final this weekend.

You just seem very reluctant to acknowledge any improvement has been made at the club since the new CEO and Head Coach and their teams have been put in place.
The last 20 years we have struggled against weaker opposition. I think the football on show is night and day compared to Butcher but we are playing pub teams. Unless we come second I think we will struggle to get promoted. I am more than happy with Stubbs and I am more than happy with Leeann Dempster. Still think the poison that is Petrie is still a hindrance though and that could be the major difference in people deciding whether to back this deal or not. I just feel this whole deal is done on the clubs terms but IMO if its us stumping up our hard earned it should be on our terms.

[Hibs07p]

Think you'll find that the threat to remove his advertisement account is an urban myth.STF had long moved away from running Kwik Fit by then.Didn't Mr.Pia leave Scotsman to become a word spinner for Scottish Labour-another success story.

That's why I added my disclaimer at the end. It could well be an urban myth, but it was my recollection at the time though. :greengrin

[ancient hibee]

The last 20 years we have struggled against weaker opposition. I think the football on show is night and day compared to Butcher but we are playing pub teams. Unless we come second I think we will struggle to get promoted. I am more than happy with Stubbs and I am more than happy with Leeann Dempster. Still think the poison that is Petrie is still a hindrance though and that could be the major difference in people deciding whether to back this deal or not. I just feel this whole deal is done on the clubs terms but IMO if its us stumping up our hard earned it should be on our terms.

If you don't like the deal don't take part-it's a perfectly reasonable position to take.

Do you mean that if we don't finish second-presumably behind Rangers we will not be good enough to beat Falkirk or Queens? I think these will be tough games but it may be better to play a tie before we meet Rangers rather than sit it out for a week.

[CB_NO3]

If you don't like the deal don't take part-it's a perfectly reasonable position to take.

Do you mean that if we don't finish second-presumably behind Rangers we will not be good enough to beat Falkirk or Queens? I think these will be tough games but it may be better to play a tie before we meet Rangers rather than sit it out for a week.
I think it will be difficult to win 3 ties in a row. Its a big ask.

[Eyrie]

My recollection of Simon Pias battle with STF is that SP used his column in Scotland on Sunday / Scotsman / EEN to attack STF quite regularly, and supported Kennedy in his attempts to takeover Hibs. STF threatened to remove his advertisement account with the Scotsman group unless they got SP under control. He was reigned in, or sacked and the vendetta continues. I accept no responsibility for any inaccuracies in this recollection, as I am in that age group that can't remember what happened yesterday.

:greengrin

I think the attacks were to do with Farmer profiting from Hibs, and involved the land deals at Straiton. Been many years since I heard that story from someone who was friendly with Glen Ross, and it included the allegation about the advertising.

Rightly or wrongly, I'd suggest that Pia blames Farmer for losing his job at that time.

[Bostonhibby]

Any idea who runs the Hibernian Retro page on FB? Appears they've taken my work and used it as there own.

Wouldn't mind if he/she had asked...
Set up a wee business, personal copyright and issue a retrospective invoice for the use [emoji481]

[DaveF]

I think it will be difficult to win 3 ties in a row. Its a big ask.

It's just like winning the Scottish........oh hang on :greengrin

[Hibs07p]

I think the attacks were to do with Farmer profiting from Hibs, and involved the land deals at Straiton. Been many years since I heard that story from someone who was friendly with Glen Ross, and it included the allegation about the advertising.

Rightly or wrongly, I'd suggest that Pia blames Farmer for losing his job at that time.

You could be right. :thumbsup:

[Argylehibby]

The last 20 years we have struggled against weaker opposition. I think the football on show is night and day compared to Butcher but we are playing pub teams. Unless we come second I think we will struggle to get promoted. I am more than happy with Stubbs and I am more than happy with Leeann Dempster. Still think the poison that is Petrie is still a hindrance though and that could be the major difference in people deciding whether to back this deal or not. I just feel this whole deal is done on the clubs terms but IMO if its us stumping up our hard earned it should be on our terms.

How does that work then? Surely the seller of a product decides the terms rather than the buyer.

[WellingtonHibby]

The last 20 years we have struggled against weaker opposition. I think the football on show is night and day compared to Butcher but we are playing pub teams. Unless we come second I think we will struggle to get promoted. I am more than happy with Stubbs and I am more than happy with Leeann Dempster. Still think the poison that is Petrie is still a hindrance though and that could be the major difference in people deciding whether to back this deal or not. I just feel this whole deal is done on the clubs terms but IMO if its us stumping up our hard earned it should be on our terms.

In what world? The Club are the selling party, All transactions are on the terms of the seller. You cant go into a shop and say, "I'm buying this six pack of beer, but im only giving you 1.50 for it, over four installments", can you?

people just want to see the worst in things and be outraged about it. They arent happy unless they are unhappy.

[CB_NO3]

How does that work then? Surely the seller of a product decides the terms rather than the buyer.
They can offer the product but its up to the buyer if they want to take up that offer. Cash is king they say. I don't think there will be a huge uptake on this deal tbh, but if Petrie went that could be a huge game changer.

[CropleyWasGod]

They can offer the product but its up to the buyer if they want to take up that offer. Cash is king they say. I don't think there will be a huge uptake on this deal tbh, but if Petrie went that could be a huge game changer.

Alternatively, if there is a large enough take-up, the fans themselves have the power to hire and fire any Board member they want.

[ballengeich]

but we are playing pub teams.

Not exactly. Our Championship opponents are either full-time professionals or the top part-timers in Scotland.

[CB_NO3]

In what world? The Club are the selling party, All transactions are on the terms of the seller. You cant go into a shop and say, "I'm buying this six pack of beer, but im only giving you 1.50 for it, over four installments", can you?

people just want to see the worst in things and be outraged about it. They arent happy unless they are unhappy.
The club are not selling anything. They have created new shares from scratch. We are putting money in on an individual basis for nothing in return. Its a donation to keep the company ticking over. I am not debating if the deals good or bad btw. Am just saying if a certain chairman left I reckon the uptake would be huge.

[Argylehibby]

They can offer the product but its up to the buyer if they want to take up that offer. Cash is king they say. I don't think there will be a huge uptake on this deal tbh, but if Petrie went that could be a huge game changer.

So are you suggesting "our" terms as the buyer are Petrie goes or we don't buy?

[CB_NO3]

So are you suggesting "our" terms as the buyer are Petrie goes or we don't buy?
Yes

[Argylehibby]

The club are not selling anything. They have created new shares from scratch. We are putting money in on an individual basis for nothing in return. Its a donation to keep the company ticking over. I am not debating if the deals good or bad btw. Am just saying if a certain chairman left I reckon the uptake would be huge.

I think you will find that was Hearts that sold nothing and pocketed the cash. Hibs are on the other hand selling shares and will honour that purchase by providing the buyer whether that is an individual or HSL documentary proof that they have bought shares in the club.

They have created new shares to sell, just as Ford create new cars to sell, as McDonalds create new burgers to sell etc. If they didn't create new shares then they would have to sell shares that already exist and the current owner would get the money not the club.

[tamig]

I think you will find that was Hearts that sold nothing and pocketed the cash. Hibs are on the other hand selling shares and will honour that purchase by providing the buyer whether that is an individual or HSL documentary proof that they have bought shares in the club.

They have created new shares to sell, just as Ford create new cars to sell, as McDonalds create new burgers to sell etc. If they didn't create new shares then they would have to sell shares that already exist and the current owner would get the money not the club.
Absolutely.

[CB_NO3]

I think you will find that was Hearts that sold nothing and pocketed the cash. Hibs are on the other hand selling shares and will honour that purchase by providing the buyer whether that is an individual or HSL documentary proof that they have bought shares in the club.

They have created new shares to sell, just as Ford create new cars to sell, as McDonalds create new burgers to sell etc. If they didn't create new shares then they would have to sell shares that already exist and the current owner would get the money not the club.
Yes I know Farmer has created shares and is giving them to a company that Farmer created, hence why I said this should be on our terms.

[Bostonhibby]

Yes

You should give the share offer a body swerve and carry on with your undoubted support for the team, many why buy shares or have bought into what is happening will do the same.:thumbsup:

[CB_NO3]

You should give the share offer a body swerve and carry on with your undoubted support for the team, many why buy shares or have bought into what is happening will do the same.:thumbsup:
I am going to have to which is a shame because I do think it has potential, but under the current format there is no chance the potential will be fulfilled.

I suppose that is life.

[CropleyWasGod]

Yes I know Farmer has created shares and is giving them to a company that Farmer created, hence why I said this should be on our terms.

Our terms or yours?

FYI, Farmer didn't create HSL. He has, and has had, nothing to do with it.

[Bostonhibby]

I am going to have to which is a shame because I do think it has potential, but under the current format there is no chance the potential will be fulfilled.

I suppose that is life.

Respect for that, but (usual disclaimer about financial advice:wink:) don't enter into it on the basis that someone somewhere has told you its something to do with Farmer - its not.

[CB_NO3]

Our terms or yours?

FYI, Farmer didn't create HSL. He has, and has had, nothing to do with it.
Of course Farmer created HSL. Maybe not legally and technically but it was his choice and his choice only to give his 45% shares away (which is why I don't understand HOHs silly theories) and he was not going to give them to any old Tom, Dick and Harry.

It was his choice to give Dempster the permission to do something with his shares so in theory your right he never created HSL but he did if that makes sense.

Anyway its late now. I am glad there is some decent debate here rather than putting up posters.

[Jack]

I think it will be difficult to win 3 ties in a row. Its a big ask.

The way we're going I don't think it is.

Are there any clubs you think we would lose against over 2 legs?

Who?

[Beefster]

The club are not selling anything. They have created new shares from scratch. We are putting money in on an individual basis for nothing in return. Its a donation to keep the company ticking over. I am not debating if the deals good or bad btw. Am just saying if a certain chairman left I reckon the uptake would be huge.

In what way have they created the shares from nothing and in what way are we getting nothing in return?

I was under the impression that the new shares were diluting the value of each of their existing shares and that the buyers were potentially getting 51% of the club.

[theonlywayisup]

Apologies if already posted.

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/spfl-lower-divisions/rod-petrie-defends-dialogue-over-hibs-share-plan-1-3673347

[Jack]

Apologies if already posted.

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/spfl-lower-divisions/rod-petrie-defends-dialogue-over-hibs-share-plan-1-3673347

"The Hibernian Supporters Association, Shareholder Association, Former Players Association, BuyHibs and Hands On Hibs have all raised opposition to the scheme and they are expected to gather together next week to consider their next move."

I'm a member of 2 of these groups.

I wonder when they will contact their respective memberships to find out our views?

[Twiglet]

"The Hibernian Supporters Association, Shareholder Association, Former Players Association, BuyHibs and Hands On Hibs have all raised opposition to the scheme and they are expected to gather together next week to consider their next move."

I'm a member of 2 of these groups.

I wonder when they will contact their respective memberships to find out our views?

Pat Stanton is also backing it very publicly. With him being one of the most (if not the most) iconic Hibs player alive does it not look a bit strange?
Not in any of these, but I am a shareholder and I'm behind it. I will be buying additional shares in the release.

[Bostonhibby]

"The Hibernian Supporters Association, Shareholder Association, Former Players Association, BuyHibs and Hands On Hibs have all raised opposition to the scheme and they are expected to gather together next week to consider their next move."

I'm a member of 2 of these groups.

I wonder when they will contact their respective memberships to find out our views?
Same here. How do they consult anyone they claim to speak for? Assuming the article is actually true.

[Bill Milne]

The Association is having a meeting on Wednesday 4th Feb, to which representatives of branches have been invited. I will be there on behalf of my branch (Edinburgh West).

[marinello59]

The Association is having a meeting on Wednesday 4th Feb, to which representatives of branches have been invited. I will be there on behalf of my branch (Edinburgh West).

But if that article is true HSA have already agreed to throw their hat in to the ring with HoH. :confused:

[Bill Milne]

But if that article is true HSA have already agreed to throw their hat in to the ring with HoH. :confused:

That can't be true as Mike and his committee have no mandate from the branches to support anyone. My view is that Mike has expressed a personal opinion which has been seized upon by the media to imply Association support overall.

[Bostonhibby]

The Association is having a meeting on Wednesday 4th Feb, to which representatives of branches have been invited. I will be there on behalf of my branch (Edinburgh West).
Bill, have you been asked to poll your members to see if they support any plans or groups?

[Bill Milne]

Bill, have you been asked to poll your members to see if they support any plans or groups?

Not in so many words. I will be speaking to as many West members as I can on Saturday to guage opinion and will reflect that at the meeting on Wednesday. I have to say that no attempt has been made so far by the committee to influence me in any way up to now.

[Caversham Green]

Of course Farmer created HSL. Maybe not legally and technically but it was his choice and his choice only to give his 45% shares away (which is why I don't understand HOHs silly theories) and he was not going to give them to any old Tom, Dick and Harry.

It was his choice to give Dempster the permission to do something with his shares so in theory your right he never created HSL but he did if that makes sense.

Anyway its late now. I am glad there is some decent debate here rather than putting up posters.

Farmer has not created any shares, he is not giving any shares away (he doesn't actually own any shares in the club) and is unlikely ever to own the new shares that will be 'created' as and when people buy them. He has absolutely no interest in or control over HSL, nor has he given Dempster permission to do anything with his shares (which he doesn't own anyway).

When I buy shares I will be giving a sum of money to the club in exchange for a share of the club's assets. Those assets will immediately have been increased by the amount of money I have given to the club. The more people do this the less control Farmer will retain.

[Ronniekirk]

Same here. How do they consult anyone they claim to speak for? Assuming the article is actually true.
In that case it begs the question do they even have a mandate now to continue to claim they are representing the fans .i think if they called for a rally outside Easter road now there would not be anything like the support they claim and they would be discredited ,but I expect they know that and that's why they won't do that

If they are to meet to continue thier campaign then this will only continue to serve to foster bad feeling towards them from the majority of the support who I think are now wanting to move forward and highlight the positives .

Maybe at the game on Saturday there needs to be some vocal show of strength by the support letting it be know we don't support them

A chant of Back the Board repeated loudly would be a start .

should the two newly elected Fans Reps insist they are invited along to any meeting to hear what is being said

It seems a minority are now being given disproportionate media exposures which is negatively impacting on the clubs image at at time Thete is so much to talk up .

Or do we just sit back and hope they collectively decide they don't have the support they thought and chuck it .However it seems to me there are too many of them with thier own agendas and ego s so that's unlikely to happen .

Interested to hear others views as to how we start to have some organised opposition to this lot or whether that would be counter productive at this time and backing and buying shares is best way of showing support .

[madhatter]

Apologies if already posted.

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/spfl-lower-divisions/rod-petrie-defends-dialogue-over-hibs-share-plan-1-3673347


"The groups contend that the debt has been built up through mismanagement at boardroom level and that fans should not have to pay back the money to Farmer, a multi-millionaire."

As written in that article, much of it is a bit embarrassing. Debt acquisition is not as black and white as how some fans seem to understand it. Would we have won the league cup in 2007 if money hadn't been spent that we couldn't afford? What were we paying Jones, Murphy, Benji and Zemmama? Could we have a new stadium (stands) and training facility without spending money we didn't have?

In addition, could we do all these with quite clear declining active supporters (obviously decreasing club income)? Some of these non-active fans are likely to be behind fan groups that are spouting this (why do we have debt = board; do I attend games = no; do I want the club to have £10 million worth of debt owed to bank with interest or £5 million worth of debt to Farmer (of which is interest free) = £10 million to bank with interest please.

Some water and an altercation in a bath comes to mind as well as 'look at me'.

As far as I'm concerned we need to put our money where our mouths are because we will not get club for free and the survey said 'fan ownership'. Fan ownership comes at a cost. Simple as. Ownership by definition is linked to acquisition and that by definition is regularly linked to deals made with monies.

[oldbutdim]

"The Hibernian Supporters Association, Shareholder Association, Former Players Association, BuyHibs and Hands On Hibs have all raised opposition to the scheme and they are expected to gather together next week to consider their next move."

I'm a member of 2 of these groups.

I wonder when they will contact their respective memberships to find out our views?

I don't know anything about a Shareholder Association........:confused:


Can anyone point me at a source for info on this please?

[CallumLaidlaw]

I don't know anything about a Shareholder Association........:confused:


Can anyone point me at a source for info on this please?

probably 1 shareholder, asked by HoH to start an Association so they can claim another supporters group are against it

[scottish_sleepy]

The way we're going I don't think it is.

Are there any clubs you think we would lose against over 2 legs?

Who?
I'd be more worried about playing Falkirk than The Rangers.
Not got a fantastic record against then lately.

[hibbybob]

There was a Shareholders Association years ago - set up after the initial floatation. I don't think its been active since the early 90s.

[marinello59]

There was a Shareholders Association years ago - set up after the initial floatation. I don't think its been active since the early 90s.

Weren't the majority of shareholders at the AGM anyway?

[hibbybob]

Weren't the majority of shareholders at the AGM anyway?

I'd imagine so. Certainly everybody I was with on Wednesday was a member when it was active.

[villager]

Yip. Few things starting to bother me about this whole episode.

Hibs share issue is just an initiative that might/not succeed. If it fails, then worst that's happened is STF/RP's influence has been diluted and passed to Hibs fans. In anyone's books, that's no bad thing. If it works, then we're all happier. It does not prevent anyone coming forward at any stage with a decent proposal and buying the club if they don't like what's happening and/or think they can do better.

There's no place for abuse or intimidation. If HOH and others can't control themselves then they'll simply lose credibility and support - already happening. In saying that, delighted to see the Board, CEO and owner properly challenged and questioned at every turn. There's been far too little accountability at Hibs over the last few years, with those responsible hiding or ignoring criticism. We all think the team and club have been far too soft in recent years. Well, IMO, so have the fans. If STF is getting a bit ticked off with criticism and coming out fighting then that's ok by me. At least we're seeing some sort of reaction, passion and emotion from our owner after all these years.

Hibs are in a battle of wills with fan groups because there's an important share issue on the go. IMO until the new Directors and share issue is up an running, HOH, BuyHibs, Pia and Kane can still play an important role in keeping Hibs honest and making sure we get the best result possible, but they need to change tack. The game has changed and so must their role/approach.

Those calling for these groups to wind-up or **** off are missing a trick or have short memories. It's as if all our past problems are over and our future success is assured. IMO all it would take is a bad set of results/luck or poor start to next season to see these same people start to vent and ask the same old questions we've been asking over the last few years. FeelGood is back and things on the park definitely looking up but we're still in a fragile/precarious state.

Agreed 100%

[jacomo]

Farmer has not created any shares, he is not giving any shares away (he doesn't actually own any shares in the club) and is unlikely ever to own the new shares that will be 'created' as and when people buy them. He has absolutely no interest in or control over HSL, nor has he given Dempster permission to do anything with his shares (which he doesn't own anyway).

When I buy shares I will be giving a sum of money to the club in exchange for a share of the club's assets. Those assets will immediately have been increased by the amount of money I have given to the club. The more people do this the less control Farmer will retain.

With the greatest respect, this sort of chat is just baffling to people who don't have a financial background.

[Bad Martini]

Farmer has not created any shares, he is not giving any shares away (he doesn't actually own any shares in the club) and is unlikely ever to own the new shares that will be 'created' as and when people buy them. He has absolutely no interest in or control over HSL, nor has he given Dempster permission to do anything with his shares (which he doesn't own anyway).

When I buy shares I will be giving a sum of money to the club in exchange for a share of the club's assets. Those assets will immediately have been increased by the amount of money I have given to the club. The more people do this the less control Farmer will retain.

Stoap it! Stoap it now ye here!

Such talk is NOT conducive to helping unfounded, stupid and frankly largely embarassing and illogical rumours and suggestions to keep going around and around and around around...

I MUCH prefer to imagine that an ageing man of seventy plus years, with a long standing reputation for being honest, charitable and generally one of the "good guys" is up to something. His bank balance needs furthered somewhat and he clearly needs and wants the very public hassle this would bring......after all, you dont need Vulcan logic to understand this surely???

I wonder what some of his detractors have invested in Hibs over the last 20 odd years?
Actions speak louder than words and money talks. <<< This, an actual fact. In the "real" world...:greengrin

Ach, there's nae point. Am off to study 62 episodes of the XFiles and look for ways to find some kind of out of this world, undercover conspiracy that involves said radgeness on an epic scale....:thumbsup:

[Bad Martini]

With the greatest respect, this sort of chat is just baffling to people who don't have a financial background.

I thought we had all become qualified chartered accountants, actuarial geniuses and men of great thoughts, such are the detailed, accurate and fabulously well tuned posts I have read of late, outlining where our club/owner/someone is attempting to royally shaft us? :aok::greengrin

[schinkenotto]

"The Hibernian Supporters Association, Shareholder Association, Former Players Association, BuyHibs and Hands On Hibs have all raised opposition to the scheme and they are expected to gather together next week to consider their next move."

I'm a member of 2 of these groups.

I wonder when they will contact their respective memberships to find out our views?

The quote is a typical Scotsman inaccuracy.Only BuyHibs and(of course!)HoH officially oppose.The "spokesmen" for the Shareholders Association and Supporters Association were expressing personal views for their own purposes and as for the Former Players Association,it was Paul Kane and he was once again speaking for himself or as part of the slanderous and virtually illegal harassment against STF.

God knows what these people think they're doing,but they do not speak for me and they will never be forgiven if their divisive malice causes STF to walk away(no reasonable person would blame him) or disrupt the long delayed,much needed but obvious progress at last being made.

Some of the views expressed by them demonstrate a frightening combination of personal spite and financial illiteracy.

[Bostonhibby]

Not in so many words. I will be speaking to as many West members as I can on Saturday to guage opinion and will reflect that at the meeting on Wednesday. I have to say that no attempt has been made so far by the committee to influence me in any way up to now.

Cheers Bill - might not be an issue here - I am a St. Pat's member and the Branch Secretary informs me that the meeting mentioned was called the day after the AGM, at which only HSA officials and Branch Secretaries will attend, to discuss the AGM and HSL.

As an aside the following night Amit and Frank will be doing their first Q and A session together at St. Patrick's Branch meeting.

[madhatter]

You know what really gets me is after everything STF has done for us (granted mistakes did happen), and after the fact he has overseen a club close to extinction become a club with excellent facilities and platform to move forward (also now valued close to £19 million), and with STF's connections to charities (Farmer Foundation etc.), some people are suggesting that he is 'at it'.

Survey was done, we wanted (collectively) to venture down fan ownership and a 51% model is advantageous for all parties. We are being offered this.

Any of these people thought that the £2.5 million may be to push the club forward as a football organisation and that the £500k a year to holding company is much more manageable and affordable? If this scheme is successful, we move forward with fans and business people on board.

One question that I have never seen an answer to is: BuyHibs wanted pledges - what was the overall funding goal? What was the overall structure? Unknown as far as I'm aware.

HSL may (if we succeed) own the 51% but we will be shareholders of HSL would we not? Same model as BuyHibs, different source and different name.

[Bostonhibby]

There was a Shareholders Association years ago - set up after the initial floatation. I don't think its been active since the early 90s.

I'm sure the Hootsmon will have tracked down the members and verified the accuracy of their information before going into print thus avoiding damaging the credibility of their article,..............oh wait a minute.

[Caversham Green]

With the greatest respect, this sort of chat is just baffling to people who don't have a financial background.

:confused: Are you being serious here?

My post was a response to what appears to be a profound misunderstanding of what is going on. The suggestion was that STF had created and now owns shares and was selling them off to a company set up (and by implication controlled) by him. That's wrong on all counts.

[CB_NO3]

:confused: Are you being serious here?

My post was a response to what appears to be a profound misunderstanding of what is going on. The suggestion was that STF had created and now owns shares and was selling them off to a company set up (and by implication controlled) by him. That's wrong on all counts.

I am not having at a dig at STF. Actually its the opposite. Farmer owned 90% of Hibs through his holding company. If this deal is concluded that holding company will only own 45% of Hibs. So where did the rest of that companies shares go?

[CropleyWasGod]

I am not having at a dig at STF. Actually its the opposite. Farmer owned 90% of Hibs through his holding company. If this deal is concluded that holding company will only own 45% of Hibs. So where did the rest of that companies shares go?

They will still own the same number of shares.

It's their percentage holding that will be reduced by the issuing of new shares.

[PatHead]

I am not having at a dig at STF. Actually its the opposite. Farmer owned 90% of Hibs through his holding company. If this deal is concluded that holding company will only own 45% of Hibs. So where did the rest of that companies shares go?

Nowhere, as the new issue of shares dilutes his holding. Imagine there were 100 shares and a further 100 shares are issued. The initial shares have effectively lost half their value but are still there in their entirety.

[hibs0666]

I am not having at a dig at STF. Actually its the opposite. Farmer owned 90% of Hibs through his holding company. If this deal is concluded that holding company will only own 45% of Hibs. So where did the rest of that companies shares go?

Be absolutely clear there's no money going to Farmer from this share issue. This is new money coming into the club. The money is not being used to buy any of Farmer's shares

[Caversham Green]

I am not having at a dig at STF. Actually its the opposite. Farmer owned 90% of Hibs through his holding company. If this deal is concluded that holding company will only own 45% of Hibs. So where did the rest of that companies shares go?

The holding company will retain all the shares it currently owns, but the total number of shares will increase by whatever number of new shares are actually bought.

For example, if the total number of shares in existence was 100 and the holding company owned 90% it would hold 90 shares in total. If 100 new shares were issued and bought by HSL the holding company would still own 90 shares, but it would be 90 out of 200, which is 45%.

[CB_NO3]

Be absolutely clear there's no money going to Farmer from this share issue. This is new money coming into the club. The money is not being used to buy any of Farmer's shares
I have never once suggested Farmer is getting any money out of this and I would like Farmer to remain at Hibs, as who knows what could happen in a few years.

[Brightside]

Be absolutely clear there's no money going to Farmer from this share issue. This is new money coming into the club. The money is not being used to buy any of Farmer's shares

and thats what the clowns at HoH dont get. He;s giving away half the club for NOTHING... that 2.5m goes back to the CEO to invest in the football team. How on earth does that turn into STF trying to screw over the fans?

[CB_NO3]

The holding company will retain all the shares it currently owns, but the total number of shares will increase by whatever number of new shares are actually bought.

For example, if the total number of shares in existence was 100 and the holding company owned 90% it would hold 90 shares in total. If 100 new shares were issued and bought by HSL the holding company would still own 90 shares, but it would be 90 out of 200, which is 45%.

Thanks for describing that :thumbsup:

[Jack]

There was a Shareholders Association years ago - set up after the initial floatation. I don't think its been active since the early 90s.

Indeed. Working Together (and indeed Let's Work Together before that) has tried to find out what happened to the Shareholders Association; who, if anyone, is still involved and what they were upto these days.

No trace of a present day Hibernian Shareholders Association was ever found.

Since these 'searches' it seems no one has been in touch with any shareholders to reestablish it.

One can only assume it's defunct and anyone claiming to act, or speak, on their behalf is on pretty dodgy ground.

IMO.

[w pilton hibby]

I'm sure the Hootsmon will have tracked down the members and verified the accuracy of their information before going into print thus avoiding damaging the credibility of their article,..............oh wait a minute.

Apologies if already posted. Just catching up with my reading

http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hibs/hsl-share-scheme-not-healthy-for-hibbies-1-3671794

Glenn Ross has called for the Hibs Shareholders Association, of which he is a member, to be revived. He said: “It’s been lying dormant for years because the ordinary shareholders have no say in how the club is run. It is down to two men, Sir Tom Farmer and Rod Petrie.

“This new scheme should carry a serious health warning. Hibs have brought in millions in transfers and property deals over the years yet we find ourselves being asked now to pay off the debt to the majority shareholder. Hibs fans don’t trust them to run the club properly. They are not football people and never have been. They should do the right thing and hand the club over with no dodgy deals and leave us to bring in new investors. There are a lot of people in the Hibs community willing to help.”

[Arch Stanton]

and thats what the clowns at HoH dont get. He;s giving away half the club for NOTHING... that 2.5m goes back to the CEO to invest in the football team. How on earth does that turn into STF trying to screw over the fans?

Exactly.

It is a fantastic plan by RP and STF - the fans could not wish for better.

The autopilot decrying of the board needs to get switched off and people need to accept that a wind of change is really happening.

[matty_f]

Apologies if already posted. Just catching up with my reading

http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hibs/hsl-share-scheme-not-healthy-for-hibbies-1-3671794

Glenn Ross has called for the Hibs Shareholders Association, of which he is a member, to be revived. He said: “It’s been lying dormant for years because the ordinary shareholders have no say in how the club is run. It is down to two men, Sir Tom Farmer and Rod Petrie.

“This new scheme should carry a serious health warning. Hibs have brought in millions in transfers and property deals over the years yet we find ourselves being asked now to pay off the debt to the majority shareholder. Hibs fans don’t trust them to run the club properly. They are not football people and never have been. They should do the right thing and hand the club over with no dodgy deals and leave us to bring in new investors. There are a lot of people in the Hibs community willing to help.”

That last quote is ridiculous, it really is.

Where do they think that money went? Really?

Property deals??

We've re-built an entire stadium and built a training centre while STF has been here, what other club has achieved that in Scottish football in that time?

Do they think that there's no costs involved in those things?

We've spent the transfer fees that came in on the football club, either by clearing debt (where the money had already been spent, and therefore needed repaying), or by running the club, or in re-investment in players.

There's nobody at the club that's pocketed the cash or made money out of it.

Absurd statement.

[jacomo]

:confused: Are you being serious here?

My post was a response to what appears to be a profound misunderstanding of what is going on. The suggestion was that STF had created and now owns shares and was selling them off to a company set up (and by implication controlled) by him. That's wrong on all counts.

I perhaps didn't express myself very clearly, but I found this paragraph of yours deeply confusing:


Farmer has not created any shares, he is not giving any shares away (he doesn't actually own any shares in the club) and is unlikely ever to own the new shares that will be 'created' as and when people buy them. He has absolutely no interest in or control over HSL, nor has he given Dempster permission to do anything with his shares (which he doesn't own anyway).

Are you drawing a distinction between Farmer and the Holding Co that does own shares in Hibs? Technically true, but it's like saying Ashley doesn't own 9% of Rangers. Technically true, but baffling.

You are right to say that he doesn't have a stake in HSL, but clearly it was created with his approval.

[w pilton hibby]

Glenn Ross has called for the Hibs Shareholders Association, of which he is a member, to be revived. He said: “It’s been lying dormant for years because the ordinary shareholders have no say in how the club is run. It is down to two men, Sir Tom Farmer and Rod Petrie.

“This new scheme should carry a serious health warning. Hibs have brought in millions in transfers and property deals over the years yet we find ourselves being asked now to pay off the debt to the majority shareholder. Hibs fans don’t trust them to run the club properly. They are not football people and never have been. They should do the right thing and hand the club over with no dodgy deals and leave us to bring in new investors. There are a lot of people in the Hibs community willing to help.”

Interesting thing for me is that David Hardie (the reporter) can find and then get a negative quote from an (ex) member of a defunct organisation.

:rolleyes:

[emerald green]

I'm just getting the feeling that there are people posting stuff on this forum and elsewhere, making statements and so on to the media, concerning HSL who simply do not want to understand what is being proposed.

Why this should be so, I really do not know. I could speculate that it could be for a number of reasons. For example, sheer stupidity, moaning for moanings sake, paranoia, personal vendettas or agendas, financial illiteracy perhaps?

Whatever it is, it sure isn't doing anything to help the club they claim to support.:tin hat:

[Caversham Green]

I perhaps didn't express myself very clearly, but I found this paragraph of yours deeply confusing:



Are you drawing a distinction between Farmer and the Holding Co that does own shares in Hibs? Technically true, but it's like saying Ashley doesn't own 9% of Rangers. Technically true, but baffling.

You are right to say that he doesn't have a stake in HSL, but clearly it was created with his approval.

I'm not drawing a distinction between Farmer and the holding company, I'm making the point that as things stand no shares have been created by anyone and if no-one subscribes to the share offer none will be. That means that the only people ever to own those shares will be the people that buy them plus anyone they subsequently sell them on to. Substitute 'Hibs' or 'the holding company' for 'Farmer' and the meaning would be the same.

No doubt STF did approve of the creation of HSL, but that's not particularly relevant to anything - he's neither a member nor a director and the only director out of seven that he's likely to have any influence over is Leeann Dempster - I think Charlie Reid and Jackie MacNamara are likely to be a decent counterweight to that.

[NAE NOOKIE]

I have not been slow to criticise STF but only on the basis of his refusal to make any comment on the clubs plight and more to the point to say what he intended to do about it. As things stand his comments at the AGM and the new fan ownership initiative have addressed these issues.

As for RP ...... I still think it would be the final piece in the jigsaw if he was gone.

Now then Hibs ............ where's my letter ?

[Golden Bear]

Interesting thing for me is that David Hardie (the reporter) can find and then get a negative quote from an (ex) member of a defunct organisation.

:rolleyes:

I've been a shareholder ever since the bad old days of the Mercer takeover and I'd never heard of the Shareholders Association up until a few weeks ago. It seems to as though as yet another individual has been pumping their jaws with the intent of stirring up trouble.

It baffles me, it really does. Now is the time for a united front if ever there was.

[Saturday Boy]

I've been a shareholder ever since the bad old days of the Mercer takeover and I'd never heard of the Shareholders Association up until a few weeks ago. It seems to as though as yet another individual has been pumping their jaws with the intent of stirring up trouble.

It baffles me, it really does. Now is the time for a united front if ever there was.

United Front? I hope that's not another splinter group. :wink:

[greenginger]

I've been a shareholder ever since the bad old days of the Mercer takeover and I'd never heard of the Shareholders Association up until a few weeks ago. It seems to as though as yet another individual has been pumping their jaws with the intent of stirring up trouble.

It baffles me, it really does. Now is the time for a united front if ever there was.


I was a member of the shareholders association back in the Duff and Gray era. Except the shares were not in Hibernian Football Club.

The shares that were sold to the public were in the holding company Highmaze Ltd which changed its name Hibernian Holdings Ltd or something.

That is the company that went bust and was liquidated and Glen Ross wants to revive the the association of liquidated share owners.:confused:

The man is Imbecile with a capital I.

Simon Pia obviously , and Glen Ross have personal grudges against STF , and are happy to damage Hibernian Football Club to get at him.

Now that is unhealthy for the football club.

[Golden Bear]

I was a member of the shareholders association back in the Duff and Gray era. Except the shares were not in Hibernian Football Club.

The shares that were sold to the public were in the holding company Highmaze Ltd which changed its name Hibernian Holdings Ltd or something.

That is the company that went bust and was liquidated and Glen Ross wants to revive the the association of liquidated share owners.:confused:

The man is Imbecile with a capital I.

Simon Pia obviously , and Glen Ross have personal grudges against STF , and are happy to damage Hibernian Football Club to get at him.

Now that is unhealthy for the football club.

Ah yes - am I correct in saying that STF ensured that new share certificates were issued based on the 50p per share valuation?

[greenginger]

Found some of the stuff, deep down in the garage archives.

Highmaze Ltd bought out Kenny Waugh and all the other shareholders at the time ( 500,000 shares at £ 1.75 / share )

The company was renamed Edinburgh Hiberian PLC and floated on the 3rd tier of the Stock Exchange and raised £ 6.5 million used almost entirely to buy worthless leasehold pubs called Avon Inns, all owned by Rolland. Those were the shares the fans bought and STF provided new shares to all the " fan " owners. Bet he wishes he had scratched a few names off the list. :greengrin

The losses sustained by these businesses brought the whole place down.

I wonder if the clown Glen Ross realises that his Hibs shares were given to him for free by STF and the shares he had bought are confetti .

[Jonnyboy]

That can't be true as Mike and his committee have no mandate from the branches to support anyone. My view is that Mike has expressed a personal opinion which has been seized upon by the media to imply Association support overall.

Bill, possibly because he said "that's my personal view as chairman" It can't or shouldn't be both, surely?

[KWJ]

Can someone point me in the direction of the report or a summary of 20+ pages please!?

[Mikey]

Can someone point me in the direction of the report or a summary of 20+ pages please!?

Here you go.......

http://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?297997-AGM-28th-Jan-2015-Report

[Bostonhibby]

Apologies if already posted. Just catching up with my reading

http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hibs/hsl-share-scheme-not-healthy-for-hibbies-1-3671794

Glenn Ross has called for the Hibs Shareholders Association, of which he is a member, to be revived. He said: “It’s been lying dormant for years because the ordinary shareholders have no say in how the club is run. It is down to two men, Sir Tom Farmer and Rod Petrie.

“This new scheme should carry a serious health warning. Hibs have brought in millions in transfers and property deals over the years yet we find ourselves being asked now to pay off the debt to the majority shareholder. Hibs fans don’t trust them to run the club properly. They are not football people and never have been. They should do the right thing and hand the club over with no dodgy deals and leave us to bring in new investors. There are a lot of people in the Hibs community willing to help.”
Cheers for posting that. Never knew it was around. I suppose the proper way for anyone to represent the views of the shareholders that aren't STF and petrie is to get hold of the list from the club then contact them to see what their views actually are before speaking for them?

The 5 shareholders I am in touch with all intend to buy shares directly through the clubs current plan. None of us have heard from or required the association for at least 15 years we reckon but did feel most shareholders managed to show how they felt at the AGM.

[greenginger]

Cheers for posting that. Never knew it was around. I suppose the proper way for anyone to represent the views of the shareholders that aren't STF and petrie is to get hold of the list from the club then contact them to see what their views actually are before speaking for them?

The 5 shareholders I am in touch with all intend to buy shares directly through the clubs current plan. None of us have heard from or required the association for at least 15 years we reckon but did feel most shareholders managed to show how they felt at the AGM.


The share holders association Glenn Ross was referring to related to the now liquidated holding company Duff and Gray set up to buy Hibernian F C in 1987. That's the company we all bought shares in.

If Ross wants to hold a meeting for a dead company's shareholders , its a free country, but I'll give it a miss.

[Ronniekirk]

The share holders association Glenn Ross was referring to related to the now liquidated holding company Duff and Gray set up to buy Hibernian F C in 1987. That's the company we all bought shares in.

If Ross wants to hold a meeting for a dead company's shareholders , its a free country, but I'll give it a miss.

No one disputes that The club has been mismanaged over a number of years which culminated in Relegation and drops in revenue and crowds Petrie presided over that and I would rather he wasn't at the club if truth be told .

But there is no doubt that since Leeann has arrived , We are mow a club on the up,,but a club still scarred by the events of the past number of years .However to try and say that if we invest in shares now we are paying off debt, when the club have made it clear that money will go towards funding Sporting Ambition is twisting things .it will be easy with the two fans reps now on board to have greater insight into how business is done and accounts are there for all to see .

I will be investing and despite my view which I still hold re Petrie it is time to move on and back what the club are trying to achieve and get some feel good factor and momentum going instead of looking back and spreading mistrust and trying to sabotage things especially when no credible alternatives were put forward by the rambiing incoherent Mr Pia at the AGM.

I did note at the end of the Scotsman Article that Pat Stanton said he had friends in both camps and he wasn't going to tell anyone which side to take or words to that effect ,and asking fans to consider carefully before deciding .Is he not allowed to come out and back the new proposal or is he just sitting on the fence being diplomatic I will be investing anyway but would of liked someone of Pats Stature to be fully endorsing it

[Bostonhibby]

The share holders association Glenn Ross was referring to related to the now liquidated holding company Duff and Gray set up to buy Hibernian F C in 1987. That's the company we all bought shares in.

If Ross wants to hold a meeting for a dead company's shareholders , its a free country, but I'll give it a miss.
Keep me the chair next to you[emoji6]

[jacomo]

Interesting thing for me is that David Hardie (the reporter) can find and then get a negative quote from an (ex) member of a defunct organisation.

:rolleyes:

And David Hardie is one of the better ones at that media outlet.

[Brizo]

I did note at the end of the Scotsman Article that Pat Stanton said he had friends in both camps and he wasn't going to tell anyone which side to take or words to that effect ,and asking fans to consider carefully before deciding .Is he not allowed to come out and back the new proposal or is he just sitting on the fence being diplomatic I will be investing anyway but would of liked someone of Pats Stature to be fully endorsing it

FWIW im pleased that Pat is sitting on the fence or being diplomatic.

I feel that he was slightly in danger of tarnishing his reputation by allowing himself to be aligned with various different groups from "Petrie out" onwards. When certain of those groups have come under scrutiny its maybe made Pat think twice about committing now to any particular group. Im quite happy for Pat to be above the mundane concerns of mere mortals.:not worth

[jacomo]

Stuart Bathgate pens another hatchet job...

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/spfl-lower-divisions/hibernian-share-plan-deserved-more-dialogue-at-agm-1-3673360

The contrast between they way this has been reported and the fawning coverage given to Foundation of Hearts last year is telling.

We have to accept that we live in a hostile media environment. I don't want any Hibs fans to be distracted by this bull.

[Pretty Boy]

Stuart Bathgate pens another hatchet job...

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/spfl-lower-divisions/hibernian-share-plan-deserved-more-dialogue-at-agm-1-3673360

The contrast between they way this has been reported and the fawning coverage given to Foundation of Hearts last year is telling.

We have to accept that we live in a hostile media environment. I don't want any Hibs fans to be distracted by this bull.

I wonder who is feeding Bathgate this pish.......

[Bostonhibby]

Stuart Bathgate pens another hatchet job...

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/spfl-lower-divisions/hibernian-share-plan-deserved-more-dialogue-at-agm-1-3673360

The contrast between they way this has been reported and the fawning coverage given to Foundation of Hearts last year is telling.

We have to accept that we live in a hostile media environment. I don't want any Hibs fans to be distracted by this bull.
Scotsman and EEN boycott? I have.

[banchoryhibs]

That last quote is ridiculous, it really is.

Where do they think that money went? Really?

Property deals??

We've re-built an entire stadium and built a training centre while STF has been here, what other club has achieved that in Scottish football in that time?

Do they think that there's no costs involved in those things?

We've spent the transfer fees that came in on the football club, either by clearing debt (where the money had already been spent, and therefore needed repaying), or by running the club, or in re-investment in players.

There's nobody at the club that's pocketed the cash or made money out of it.

Absurd statement.

100% agree :agree:
perhaps it's time for the "silent majority" to be much more vocal in supporting the club, including those (Petrie) who have made mistakes and error of judgement along the way. We all do this from time to time

[matty_f]

Stuart Bathgate pens another hatchet job...

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/spfl-lower-divisions/hibernian-share-plan-deserved-more-dialogue-at-agm-1-3673360

The contrast between they way this has been reported and the fawning coverage given to Foundation of Hearts last year is telling.

We have to accept that we live in a hostile media environment. I don't want any Hibs fans to be distracted by this bull.

He's a disgrace, what a load of nonsense.

In many ways the opposition to the share scheme reminds me of the Yes campaign last year. The amount of noise being generated by one side is disproportionate to the feelings of the majority (as far as I can see from the, admittedly limited, response to the share scheme at the AGM and on the poll on here).

HoH mustered 30-odd folk to protest, why should Hibs hold everything up for such a small section of the support when over 20 times that number have expressed an interest in participating as is? Especially so when the questions have been addressed publically - just because HoH etc don't like the answers doesn't mean that there are no answers.

How long do the club need to cover the same ground, or cover that ground only to find the goalposts moved and an objection raised on some other spurious grounds?

HoH, as with everyone, are entitled to their opinion, and like the rest of us they have a choice in whether to dip their hands in their pockets and participate in the issue, or not to - nobody's going to criticise them for not buying into it, it's their right to do as they please.

Similarly, the rest of us have a right to go ahead if we want to - from what I can see more people want to go ahead than don't,and so the club should be pressing on as planned, IMHO.

Bathgate paints a picture that's somewhat out of synch with reality, IMHO, and he lends far more credibility to the opposition to the plan than that opposition merits based on it's size.

[Dashing Bob S]

Interesting quote from an otherwise predictable Bathgate piece:

Experience from other clubs – most relevantly, Hibs’ Edinburgh neighbours Hearts – teaches us that only in the event of a life-threatening crisis do fans really dig deep. In the winter of 2012, when Vladimir Romanov warned that Hearts were at risk of closure, supporters raised around £1m. No matter that HSL have already received expressions of interest from 700 fans, it seems unlikely that they will raise anything close to that six-figure sum, never mind the hypothetical maximum of £2.5m.

This is a key issue and we shall see.

But I don't think that any amount of scheme cheerleading or condemnation from fans groups will have much more influence on individual decisions at this point.

[matty_f]

Interesting quote from an otherwise predictable Bathgate piece:

Experience from other clubs – most relevantly, Hibs’ Edinburgh neighbours Hearts – teaches us that only in the event of a life-threatening crisis do fans really dig deep. In the winter of 2012, when Vladimir Romanov warned that Hearts were at risk of closure, supporters raised around £1m. No matter that HSL have already received expressions of interest from 700 fans, it seems unlikely that they will raise anything close to that six-figure sum, never mind the hypothetical maximum of £2.5m.

This is a key issue and we shall see.

But I don't think that any amount of scheme cheerleading or condemnation from fans groups will have much more influence on individual decisions at this point.

:agree: I think most will have made up their mind. I think the share issue will be a slow burner, but with no end-date on the HSL option there's no rush to get the £2.5million in, because it's not critical cash for the club.

The key to it is that HSL are still pushing for payments in a year or two years time, because I think it will take at least that long to raise the money.

[malcolm]

He's a disgrace, what a load of nonsense.

In many ways the opposition to the share scheme reminds me of the Yes campaign last year. The amount of noise being generated by one side is disproportionate to the feelings of the majority (as far as I can see from the, admittedly limited, response to the share scheme at the AGM and on the poll on here).

HoH mustered 30-odd folk to protest, why should Hibs hold everything up for such a small section of the support when over 20 times that number have expressed an interest in participating as is? Especially so when the questions have been addressed publically - just because HoH etc don't like the answers doesn't mean that there are no answers.

How long do the club need to cover the same ground, or cover that ground only to find the goalposts moved and an objection raised on some other spurious grounds?

HoH, as with everyone, are entitled to their opinion, and like the rest of us they have a choice in whether to dip their hands in their pockets and participate in the issue, or not to - nobody's going to criticise them for not buying into it, it's their right to do as they please.

Similarly, the rest of us have a right to go ahead if we want to - from what I can see more people want to go ahead than don't,and so the club should be pressing on as planned, IMHO.

Bathgate paints a picture that's somewhat out of synch with reality, IMHO, and he lends far more credibility to the opposition to the plan than that opposition merits based on it's size.


More like FOH Fibs on Hibs and behaving like the enemy so the acronym is appropriate too:wink:

[marinello59]

Interesting quote from an otherwise predictable Bathgate piece:

Experience from other clubs – most relevantly, Hibs’ Edinburgh neighbours Hearts – teaches us that only in the event of a life-threatening crisis do fans really dig deep. In the winter of 2012, when Vladimir Romanov warned that Hearts were at risk of closure, supporters raised around £1m. No matter that HSL have already received expressions of interest from 700 fans, it seems unlikely that they will raise anything close to that six-figure sum, never mind the hypothetical maximum of £2.5m.

This is a key issue and we shall see.

But I don't think that any amount of scheme cheerleading or condemnation from fans groups will have much more influence on individual decisions at this point.

I agree entirely with your last statement there. It's all noises off now.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

Interesting quote from an otherwise predictable Bathgate piece:

Experience from other clubs – most relevantly, Hibs’ Edinburgh neighbours Hearts – teaches us that only in the event of a life-threatening crisis do fans really dig deep. In the winter of 2012, when Vladimir Romanov warned that Hearts were at risk of closure, supporters raised around £1m. No matter that HSL have already received expressions of interest from 700 fans, it seems unlikely that they will raise anything close to that six-figure sum, never mind the hypothetical maximum of £2.5m.

This is a key issue and we shall see.

But I don't think that any amount of scheme cheerleading or condemnation from fans groups will have much more influence on individual decisions at this point.

I said much the same on another thread when someone tried to compare the fund raising of both clubs. The situations are not comparable, if they hadnae come up with the goods they would be no more. We don't face that.