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YehButNoBut
24-01-2015, 11:24 AM
Celtic striker Leigh Griffiths has been charged over an alleged incident that took place in a pub last year.
Police Scotland have confirmed the striker, 24, was arrested and that a report had been sent to the procurator fiscal.
The alleged incident took place in Edinburgh and he was arrested under new legislation designed to crack-down on football-related crimes.
A spokesman for Police Scotland said: "We can confirm that a 24-year-old man has been arrested, charged and cautioned with an offence under the Offensive Behaviour at Football Act and Threatening Communications Act."

http://www.stv.tv/scotland/307760-celtic-player-leigh-griffiths-charged-after-alleged-incident-in-edinburgh/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

DaveF
24-01-2015, 11:28 AM
Nothing like a good old witch hunt. Meanwhile at Ibrox and Celtc Park the sectarian songs carry on as normal.

superfurryhibby
24-01-2015, 11:29 AM
Celtic striker Leigh Griffiths has been charged over an alleged incident that took place in a pub last year.
Police Scotland have confirmed the striker, 24, was arrested and that a report had been sent to the procurator fiscal.
The alleged incident took place in Edinburgh and he was arrested under new legislation designed to crack-down on football-related crimes.
A spokesman for Police Scotland said: "We can confirm that a 24-year-old man has been arrested, charged and cautioned with an offence under the Offensive Behaviour at Football Act and Threatening Communications Act."

http://www.stv.tv/scotland/307760-celtic-player-leigh-griffiths-charged-after-alleged-incident-in-edinburgh/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

FFS. Maybe everyone who joined in with that song could present themselves at the local cop shop and hand themselves in in solidarity.

DaveF
24-01-2015, 11:32 AM
FFS. Maybe everyone who joined in with that song could present themselves at the local cop shop and hand themselves in in solidarity.

Now you mention it, I may know some people (not me of course :greengrin) who sang this at a derby game at Easter Road several years back. Do we all surrender at once?

Eyrie
24-01-2015, 11:35 AM
Now you mention it, I may know some people (not me of course :greengrin) who sang this at a derby game at Easter Road several years back. Do we all surrender at once?

I'm tempted to respond with "No Surrender" but I'd probably get reported under the Act :offski:

Spike Mandela
24-01-2015, 11:44 AM
It may be semantics but I am truly puzzled by this song and the reaction to it.

A refugee......somebody in a different country fleeing persecution or a war. I mean who on earth decided to put that in a song about a football player? It just doesn't make sense?

Is it racist or sectarian? Sure it is silly and nonsensical but is it pc gone mad? Is it worse than singing all Hibees are gay?

Perhaps it is racist by implication or at least offensive, the authorities certainly seem to think so but I am pretty sure a good lawyer could pick holes in any charge.

I am truly embarrassed by any kind of racism, sectarianism or sexism in todays modern football culture and would certainly prefer Griffiths to avoid singing songs like this and lets face it there is a multitude of derogatory terms we as a support could have come up with to wind up Skacel but why on earth refugee?

What's your thoughts?

Aldo
24-01-2015, 11:54 AM
It's easy pickings IMHO. For a start he shouldn't of sung the song I. The first place however he's definitely been picked out.

One rule for one and a separate rule for others.

As others have alluded why have the authorities not traced the others who were also singing the same song??

He might get a football banning order as a result of it (if found guilty).

lord bunberry
24-01-2015, 11:54 AM
It may be semantics but I am truly puzzled by this song and the reaction to it.

A refugee......somebody in a different country fleeing persecution or a war. I mean who on earth decided to put that in a song about a football player? It just doesn't make sense?

Is it racist or sectarian? Sure it is silly and nonsensical but is it pc gone mad? Is it worse than singing all Hibees are gay?

Perhaps it is racist by implication or at least offensive, the authorities certainly seem to think so but I am pretty sure a good lawyer could pick holes in any charge.

I am truly embarrassed by any kind of racism, sectarianism or sexism in todays modern football culture and would certainly prefer Griffiths to avoid singing songs like this and lets face it there is a multitude of derogatory terms we as a support could have come up with to wind up Skacel but why on earth refugee?

What's your thoughts?
I was told on another thread unrelated to this that it can't be racism as being Czech, Scottish or from any country isn't a race.

Ozyhibby
24-01-2015, 11:56 AM
It's a stupid law. Unfortunately it exists because the football authorities refuse to issue sanctions to the clubs for the sectarian singing of their fans.
So far, everyone who has been arrested under this law has a football banning order placed on them as part of their bail conditions. Is it one law for normal people and another for rich footballers?

Colr
24-01-2015, 11:59 AM
I was told on another thread unrelated to this that it can't be racism as being Czech, Scottish or from any country isn't a race.

Yup

Hibbyradge
24-01-2015, 12:02 PM
I was told on another thread unrelated to this that it can't be racism as being Czech, Scottish or from any country isn't a race.

You shouldn't believe everything you read on hibs.net threads. :wink:

Hibbyradge
24-01-2015, 12:04 PM
Yup

I'm not sure if you mean that you agree with LB's post or you agree that it isn't racism.

However, let's put that particular myth to bed.

Race is also defined as "a group of people united or classified together on the basis of common history, nationality, or geographic distribution."

NAE NOOKIE
24-01-2015, 12:08 PM
It may be semantics but I am truly puzzled by this song and the reaction to it.

A refugee......somebody in a different country fleeing persecution or a war. I mean who on earth decided to put that in a song about a football player? It just doesn't make sense?

Is it racist or sectarian? Sure it is silly and nonsensical but is it pc gone mad? Is it worse than singing all Hibees are gay?

Perhaps it is racist by implication or at least offensive, the authorities certainly seem to think so but I am pretty sure a good lawyer could pick holes in any charge.

I am truly embarrassed by any kind of racism, sectarianism or sexism in todays modern football culture and would certainly prefer Griffiths to avoid singing songs like this and lets face it there is a multitude of derogatory terms we as a support could have come up with to wind up Skacel but why on earth refugee?

What's your thoughts?

I will be interested to see how this pans out. The charge is going to hinge on the word 'refugee' Refugees are not a nation, a race, a religion, or any form of sexual orientation. There were dozens of people in the pub singing that song ... if the law is supposed to be fair for all then LGs lawyer would be justified in asking why only he has been charged.

As for the song .... All it does is demonstrate a stunning ignorance of geography and world affairs, who knows whose dumb idea it was. I just wish it would get binned.

blackpoolhibs
24-01-2015, 12:10 PM
New legislation i hear, is this new since the incident? Going down a dodgy road here if it is.

DaveF
24-01-2015, 12:11 PM
I'm not sure if you mean that you agree with LB's post or you agree that it isn't racism.

However, let's put that particular myth to bed.

Race is also defined as "a group of people united or classified together on the basis of common history, nationality, or geographic distribution."

So 30 fat or bald people (or fat, bald people) who have been that way for the past few years are a race?

Hibbyradge
24-01-2015, 12:14 PM
New legislation i hear, is this new since the incident? Going down a dodgy road here if it is.

2011 legislation.

blackpoolhibs
24-01-2015, 12:14 PM
This must be offensive behavior under the new rules, how far can they go back?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXdO0EoprDc

Hibbyradge
24-01-2015, 12:17 PM
Offensive Behaviour
This offence will cover sectarian and other offensive chanting and threatening behaviour related to football which is likely to cause public disorder. It covers:

expressing or inciting religious, racial or other forms of hatred;

threatening or offensive behaviour;

will also cover behaviour of players and managers;

applies at, on the way to or from a "regulated football match", which includes league, European and international matches involving Scottish teams;

"regulated football match" based on football banning orders (FBO) legislation, which means an FBO will be available in every case.

also covers anywhere a match is being broadcast, except domestic property.

Covers a wide range of behaviours with appropriate relevant penalties ranging from fixed penalty notices (£40) and Community Payback Orders to an unlimited fine and 5 years in prison.

Guilty as charged, milord.:wink:

DaveF
24-01-2015, 12:19 PM
This must be offensive behavior under the new rules, how far can they go back?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXdO0EoprDc

Dig up Donald Findlay singing the sash. Was he ever done for that back in '99?

SaulGoodman
24-01-2015, 12:22 PM
I'm surprised they actually put "Celtic Striker" not "Former Hibs star" like they usually do.

blackpoolhibs
24-01-2015, 12:22 PM
Offensive Behaviour
This offence will cover sectarian and other offensive chanting and threatening behaviour related to football which is likely to cause public disorder. It covers:

expressing or inciting religious, racial or other forms of hatred;

threatening or offensive behaviour;

will also cover behaviour of players and managers;

applies at, on the way to or from a "regulated football match", which includes league, European and international matches involving Scottish teams;

"regulated football match" based on football banning orders (FBO) legislation, which means an FBO will be available in every case.

also covers anywhere a match is being broadcast, except domestic property.

Covers a wide range of behaviours with appropriate relevant penalties ranging from fixed penalty notices (£40) and Community Payback Orders to an unlimited fine and 5 years in prison.

Guilty as charged, milord.:wink:

There is no doubt he's guilty of offensive behavior, someone somewhere is always offended. The link i put up of Lennon must offend someone, my question is how far will they go back with these new laws, or will it just be easy targets like this they will go after?

DaveF
24-01-2015, 12:22 PM
Offensive Behaviour
This offence will cover sectarian and other offensive chanting and threatening behaviour related to football which is likely to cause public disorder. It covers:

expressing or inciting religious, racial or other forms of hatred;

threatening or offensive behaviour;

will also cover behaviour of players and managers;

applies at, on the way to or from a "regulated football match", which includes league, European and international matches involving Scottish teams;

"regulated football match" based on football banning orders (FBO) legislation, which means an FBO will be available in every case.

also covers anywhere a match is being broadcast, except domestic property.

Covers a wide range of behaviours with appropriate relevant penalties ranging from fixed penalty notices (£40) and Community Payback Orders to an unlimited fine and 5 years in prison.

Guilty as charged, milord.:wink:

"expressing or inciting religious ....hatred"

See, this is where the whole thing becomes a joke for me. You could arrest the whole Govan Stand each week for that, but do they?

It's a farce.

Elephant Stone
24-01-2015, 12:23 PM
Without a doubt the most idiotic song Hibs fans have ever sung. I doubt it's more offensive than some of the stuff Griffiths has had to put up with but that's a different issue. Hopefully we won't need to hear it again now.

blackpoolhibs
24-01-2015, 12:23 PM
Dig up Donald Findlay singing the sash. Was he ever done for that back in '99?

:agree: Selective prosecutions in my opinion, an easy target.

J-C
24-01-2015, 12:24 PM
I would hope that Police Scotland is arresting everyone in the pub that was sining the said song, to go out their way to arrest one man and not everyone else involved is plain ridiculous.

DaveF
24-01-2015, 12:29 PM
I'm surprised they actually put "Celtic Striker" not "Former Hibs star" like they usually do.

They will be saving that for when he is found guilty :agree:

Keith_M
24-01-2015, 12:33 PM
As others have said, it's an easy target.

Meanwhile, Celtc and The Rangers Fans carry on with their sectarian and terrorist loving bile with impunity.




(just for the avoidance of doubt, I hate the moronic song and would much prefer it if all Hibbies stopped singing it)

NadeAteMyLunch!
24-01-2015, 12:35 PM
So the police can deal with this obviously, however they still make zero effort to do anything about the sectarian singing from Rangers/Celtic/to a lesser extent Hearts fans every week.
Hearts fans can sing homophobic songs regularly, Callum Paterson can make homophobic tweets and nothing is done about it.
The Skacel song is dreadful and it was stupid of Leigh to sing it. It was actually him that started it off, which is even more ridiculous. I stood in the Roseburn that morning and instantly turned to my mate and said "he's really gonna regret that".
If I remember correctly, the song was started 10 years ago as a direct result of Hearts fans singing "Rudi Skacel is a ****ing goal machine". I'm guessing someone thought refugee fitted into the song more than it actually making sense?! Silly song that's got two Hibs/ex Hibs strikers in trouble. Thankfully it's not really sung anymore.

Hibbyradge
24-01-2015, 12:36 PM
"expressing or inciting religious ....hatred"

See, this is where the whole thing becomes a joke for me. You could arrest the whole Govan Stand each week for that, but do they?

It's a farce.

It is.

Hibbyradge
24-01-2015, 12:38 PM
This must be offensive behavior under the new rules, how far can they go back?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXdO0EoprDc


Dig up Donald Findlay singing the sash. Was he ever done for that back in '99?

This legislation didn't arrive until 2011.

blackpoolhibs
24-01-2015, 12:40 PM
This legislation didn't arrive until 2011.

Cheers Dave, i thought wrongly that it was new legislation brought out since the incident.

silverhibee
24-01-2015, 12:46 PM
It's easy pickings IMHO. For a start he shouldn't of sung the song I. The first place however he's definitely been picked out.

One rule for one and a separate rule for others.

As others have alluded why have the authorities not traced the others who were also singing the same song??

He might get a football banning order as a result of it (if found guilty).

What does "threatening communications act" mean.

Hibbyradge
24-01-2015, 01:00 PM
What does "threatening communications act" mean.Threatening Communications
This offence will strengthen current law covering threats of serious harm and criminalise threats inciting religious hatred. It covers:

threats of serious harm intended to cause fear and alarm, or reckless as to whether it does;

implied threats (e.g. bullets or images depicting serious harm)

threats intended to incite religious hatred.

it will be a defence that the behaviour was in the situation "reasonable", to ensure that artistic performance etc. are excluded.

Maximum penalty of an unlimited fine and 5 years in prison.

The offence will NOT:

Stop peaceful preaching or proselytising.

Restrict freedom of speech including the right to criticise or comment on religion or non-religious beliefs, even in harsh terms.

Criminalise jokes and satire about religion or non-religious belief.

Aldo
24-01-2015, 01:11 PM
What does "threatening communications act" mean.

Silver sorry for the delay bud I'm just back in.

Hibbyradge has beaten me to it!




Threatening Communications This offence will strengthen current law covering threats of serious harm and criminalise threats inciting religious hatred. It covers: threats of serious harm intended to cause fear and alarm, or reckless as to whether it does; implied threats (e.g. bullets or images depicting serious harm) threats intended to incite religious hatred. it will be a defence that the behaviour was in the situation "reasonable", to ensure that artistic performance etc. are excluded. Maximum penalty of an unlimited fine and 5 years in prison. The offence will NOT: Stop peaceful preaching or proselytising. Restrict freedom of speech including the right to criticise or comment on religion or non-religious beliefs, even in harsh terms. Criminalise jokes and satire about religion or non-religious belief.

The threatening communications by Leigh would be him using the word 'Refugee' (as we are all aware) which would be covered by inciting religious hatred.

From the you tube footage at the time I sounded to me as if pretty much the whole pub was at it yet, as I've said Leigh is the only one being sought by the authorities.

What he did was wrong and very stupid and tbf if it hadn't of been put on you tube ( damning evidence tbh) then the likely hood of this being pursued by the authorities would be very skim indeed!!

He has made himself a very easy target!!

Hibbyradge
24-01-2015, 01:21 PM
Silver sorry for the delay bud I'm just back in.

Hibbyradge has beaten me to it!





The threatening communications by Leigh would be him using the word 'Refugee' (as we are all aware) which would be covered by inciting religious hatred.

From the you tube footage at the time I sounded to me as if pretty much the whole pub was at it yet, as I've said Leigh is the only one being sought by the authorities.

What he did was wrong and very stupid and tbf if it hadn't of been put on you tube ( damning evidence tbh) then the likely hood of this being pursued by the authorities would be very skim indeed!!

He has made himself a very easy target!!

There are 2 parts to the offence. Leigh's offence will be covered by the first part.

See post 18. (http://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?297679-Griffiths-charged-under-new-football-legislation&p=4281661&viewfull=1#post4281661)

Aldo
24-01-2015, 01:23 PM
There are 2 parts to the offence. Leigh's offence will be covered by the first part. See post 18. (http://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?297679-Griffiths-charged-under-new-football-legislation&p=4281661&viewfull=1#post4281661)


Yip you are indeed correct (wasn't doubting you btw). ;-)

Wonder what OJ's lawyer is doing these days??

greenginger
24-01-2015, 01:28 PM
Silver sorry for the delay bud I'm just back in.

Hibbyradge has beaten me to it!





The threatening communications by Leigh would be him using the word 'Refugee' (as we are all aware) which would be covered by inciting religious hatred.

From the you tube footage at the time I sounded to me as if pretty much the whole pub was at it yet, as I've said Leigh is the only one being sought by the authorities.

What he did was wrong and very stupid and tbf if it hadn't of been put on you tube ( damning evidence tbh) then the likely hood of this being pursued by the authorities would be very skim indeed!!

He has made himself a very easy target!!


There are lots of refugees that do not evoke the same sympathy.

http://www.nestmann.com/growing-numbers-of-tax-refugees-exit-usa-permanently#.VMOblON_tic


A tax refugee is an apt description of Skacel. His private deal with Vlad, his registered salary as the lowest of the squad at the PBS, his agent suing him for commission based on a salary twice that was on his contract.

He was getting tax free cash at the PBS. Calling Skacel a Tax Refugee would be defense for Griffiths, and not any more absurd than the charges.

Now, who is his lawyer ? :wink:

Aldo
24-01-2015, 01:34 PM
There are lots of refugees that do not evoke the same sympathy. http://www.nestmann.com/growing-numbers-of-tax-refugees-exit-usa-permanently#.VMOblON_tic A tax refugee is an apt description of Skacel. His private deal with Vlad, his registered salary as the lowest of the squad at the PBS, his agent suing him for commission based on a salary twice that was on his contract. He was getting tax free cash at the PBS. Calling Skacel a Tax Refugee would be defense for Griffiths, and not any more absurd than the charges. Now, who is his lawyer ? :wink:

Ha like that. ;-)

Deansy
24-01-2015, 01:35 PM
Not that I condone what Griffiths was singing but I hope he takes his lawyer with him and he uses extracts from ANY game involving Rangers, Hearts (I doubt he'd use Septic) and asks the panel - 'You take action against my client yet don't against them ? - can I ask why ?? - One's taken from a mobile-phone, the other is available on NATIONAL TV' .

Case dropped.

Hibbyradge
24-01-2015, 01:39 PM
Not that I condone what Griffiths was singing but I hope he takes his lawyer with him and he uses extracts from ANY game involving Rangers, Hearts (I doubt he'd use Septic) and asks the panel - 'You take action against my client yet don't against them ? - can I ask why ?? - One's taken from a mobile-phone, the other is available on NATIONAL TV' .

Case dropped.

The court isn't there to judge the actions, or inaction, of the police.

Otherwise, every speeding motorist, for example, would use the same defence.

NadeAteMyLunch!
24-01-2015, 01:41 PM
There are lots of refugees that do not evoke the same sympathy.

http://www.nestmann.com/growing-numbers-of-tax-refugees-exit-usa-permanently#.VMOblON_tic


A tax refugee is an apt description of Skacel. His private deal with Vlad, his registered salary as the lowest of the squad at the PBS, his agent suing him for commission based on a salary twice that was on his contract.

He was getting tax free cash at the PBS. Calling Skacel a Tax Refugee would be defense for Griffiths, and not any more absurd than the charges.

Now, who is his lawyer ? :wink:

All very true. So much illegal activity went on at that club for years. Shame the only person being charged is the guy that sang a song.

CentreLine
24-01-2015, 01:49 PM
so the lesson is if you disagree with the way someone behaves put it in a sneaky mobile phone video and leave the authorities to do the rest. It's happening in all areas of obscure law these days.

silverhibee
24-01-2015, 01:51 PM
Threatening Communications
This offence will strengthen current law covering threats of serious harm and criminalise threats inciting religious hatred. It covers:

threats of serious harm intended to cause fear and alarm, or reckless as to whether it does;

implied threats (e.g. bullets or images depicting serious harm)

threats intended to incite religious hatred.

it will be a defence that the behaviour was in the situation "reasonable", to ensure that artistic performance etc. are excluded.

Maximum penalty of an unlimited fine and 5 years in prison.

The offence will NOT:

Stop peaceful preaching or proselytising.

Restrict freedom of speech including the right to criticise or comment on religion or non-religious beliefs, even in harsh terms.

Criminalise jokes and satire about religion or non-religious belief.

Ta Radge.

Tyler Durden
24-01-2015, 02:08 PM
Is the footage even conclusive that Griffiths speaks the words? My memory was he started the "RUDI..." part and then fans take over. It wasn't clear whether he actually sang it. Although maybe that was a shorter clip I saw.

emerald green
24-01-2015, 02:35 PM
Folk will soon be too scared to open their mouths going to, during, or after football matches.

When I think of some of the stuff that's been belted out by thousands of football fans over the years, this now seems way OTT. Let's make an example of Leigh Griffiths someone has decided I suspect.

silverhibee
24-01-2015, 02:48 PM
Silver sorry for the delay bud I'm just back in.

Hibbyradge has beaten me to it!





The threatening communications by Leigh would be him using the word 'Refugee' (as we are all aware) which would be covered by inciting religious hatred.

From the you tube footage at the time I sounded to me as if pretty much the whole pub was at it yet, as I've said Leigh is the only one being sought by the authorities.

What he did was wrong and very stupid and tbf if it hadn't of been put on you tube ( damning evidence tbh) then the likely hood of this being pursued by the authorities would be very skim indeed!!

He has made himself a very easy target!!

But why are certain players getting preferential treatment in Scotland, why are some players named by the press and others are protected.

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/celtic-goalkeeper-lukasz-zaluska-attacked-by-premiership-footballer-glasgow-1470934

A wee quote from that story, "It is reported the goalkeeper was allegedly attacked a fellow professional footballer, who cannot be named for legal reasons". :rolleyes:

Why can't they name him, they are quick enough at naming other players when it suits them, could this, if found guilty, find Griffiths with a banning order from football. ?

Aldo
24-01-2015, 02:53 PM
But why are certain players getting preferential treatment in Scotland, why are some players named by the press and others are protected. http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/celtic-goalkeeper-lukasz-zaluska-attacked-by-premiership-footballer-glasgow-1470934 A wee quote from that story, "It is reported the goalkeeper was allegedly attacked a fellow professional footballer, who cannot be named for legal reasons". :rolleyes: Why can't they name him, they are quick enough at naming other players when it suits them, could this, if found guilty, find Griffiths with a banning order from football. ?

We have discussed 'Easy Targets' in the past Silver.

I said it in my earlier post about the whole pub singing it yet he's been identified by the powers that be.

As for naming..... Innocent until proven guilty??

LG = trial by media!!

Also mentioned that a FBO is a possibility.

hibbysam
24-01-2015, 03:07 PM
We have discussed 'Easy Targets' in the past Silver.

I said it in my earlier post about the whole pub singing it yet he's been identified by the powers that be.

As for naming..... Innocent until proven guilty??

LG = trial by media!!

Also mentioned that a FBO is a possibility.

How can they possibly give him a banning order when he would be plying his trade in these stadiums every week?

Say he gets a 2 year banning order, how is he then meant to play football for 2 years if he is banned from these stadiums?

Aldo
24-01-2015, 03:13 PM
How can they possibly give him a banning order when he would be plying his trade in these stadiums every week? Say he gets a 2 year banning order, how is he then meant to play football for 2 years if he is banned from these stadiums?

That would be for the courts to decide.

IIRC a football player (cannot remember who) was bailed from Perth Sheriff Court and a conditions of that bail was to not enter Perth.

Low and behold he played against St Johnstone not long after.

He was arrested and held in custody until the following day because of this. I cannot remember if this was before or after the match.

Islington Hibs
24-01-2015, 03:25 PM
I feel very sorry for Leigh. Having seen the 'offending song' on Youtube it is banter and not malicious. It is one thing to be clearly intimidating and offense this is quite another. Soon jokes about the Scots, English and Irish will be offside. Slippery slope.

This is a complete waste of police time and public money. It is potentially criminalising someone for no reason, and it closes down legitimate banter. I seem to remember about singing 'In your Gorgie slums or something similar' Is that not equally offensive? Good luck Leigh.

Nakedmanoncrack
24-01-2015, 03:26 PM
I would hope that Police Scotland is arresting everyone in the pub that was sining the said song, to go out their way to arrest one man and not everyone else involved is plain ridiculous.

I hope so too, it must be possible to identify others in the footage.

Aldo
24-01-2015, 03:30 PM
I feel very sorry for Leigh. Having seen the 'offending song' on Youtube it is banter and not malicious. It is one thing to be clearly intimidating and offense this is quite another. Soon jokes about the Scots, English and Irish will be offside. Slippery slope.

This is a complete waste of police time and public money. It is potentially criminalising someone for no reason, and it closes down legitimate banter. I seem to remember about singing 'In your Gorgie slums or something similar' Is that not equally offensive? Good luck Leigh.

Banter or not it doesn't need to be malicious it is how it is perceived by anyone!!
The song mentioned someone being a 'Refugee' unfortunately for Leigh you cannot sign songs like that these days.

Waste of money?? Could even possibly be seen as a "Hate Crime"

Crazy but he shouldn't of put himself in this position n the first place!!

DaveF
24-01-2015, 03:31 PM
Banter or not it doesn't need to be malicious it is how it is perceived by anyone!!
The song mentioned someone being a 'Refugee' unfortunately for Leigh you cannot sign songs like that these days.

Waste of money?? Could even possibly be seen as a "Hate Crime"

Crazy but he shouldn't of put himself in this position n the first place!!

"you fat *******" will be next. Or is that already against the law?

Aldo
24-01-2015, 03:33 PM
"you fat *******" will be next. Or is that already against the law?

Think you'll find it probably is.

I think there have been complaints about that Katie Hopkins and something she said about 'fat people'.

I'm sure I read about this either late last year or the first week in Jan!

World has gone crazy like!!

DaveF
24-01-2015, 03:37 PM
Think you'll find it probably is.

I think there have been complaints about that Katie Hopkins and something she said about 'fat people'.

I'm sure I read about this either late last year or the first week in Jan!

World has gone crazy like!!

Deary me. The next time anyone at ER shouts 'you baldy *******' at a player I'm going to get them lifted for offence caused to me :rolleyes:

It'll be interesting to see how this case goes and then compare it to the Nazi saluting Hearts muppet who was charged following the derby in August. I wonder if he was ever banned from Tynecastle or if he is sitting in his usual seat today?

Aldo
24-01-2015, 03:41 PM
Deary me. The next time anyone at ER shouts 'you baldy *******' at a player I'm going to get them lifted for offence caused to me :rolleyes: It'll be interesting to see how this case goes and then compare it to the Nazi saluting Hearts muppet who was charged following the derby in August. I wonder if he was ever banned from Tynecastle or if he is sitting in his usual seat today?


It may not of went to trial yet?

Would like to think he'll get one should he be found guilty.

silverhibee
24-01-2015, 03:59 PM
How can they possibly give him a banning order when he would be plying his trade in these stadiums every week?

Say he gets a 2 year banning order, how is he then meant to play football for 2 years if he is banned from these stadiums?

He won't be able to play football for 2 years.

LancashireHibby
24-01-2015, 04:05 PM
He won't be able to play football for 2 years.
....in Scotland (it's always threatened that these bans apply to the UK, but bans that are for offences in English grounds only apply to grounds in England, Wales or England internationals, so who knows?)

Hibbyradge
24-01-2015, 04:13 PM
If Skachel or Ian Black had been caught on video singing a similar song, this site would be screaming for his blood.

Just saying.

Who uploaded the video anyway?

SunshineOnLeith
24-01-2015, 04:26 PM
The Hibs fan who recorded him then uploaded it to YouTube must be really proud of themself, counting the views rack up and being a 'big deal' on the internet.

brog
24-01-2015, 05:32 PM
Leigh should ask the SPFL/SFA to defend him. After all they tell us if everyone does it the rules don't really matter!!

silverhibee
24-01-2015, 05:39 PM
Deary me. The next time anyone at ER shouts 'you baldy *******' at a player I'm going to get them lifted for offence caused to me :rolleyes:

It'll be interesting to see how this case goes and then compare it to the Nazi saluting Hearts muppet who was charged following the derby in August. I wonder if he was ever banned from Tynecastle or if he is sitting in his usual seat today?

The next ginger comment and i swear i will do time. :greengrin

Aldo
24-01-2015, 05:39 PM
The next ginger comment and i swear i will do time. :greengrin

You no grey!! ;-)

silverhibee
24-01-2015, 05:40 PM
The Hibs fan who recorded him then uploaded it to YouTube must be really proud of themself, counting the views rack up and being a 'big deal' on the internet.

Who said it was a Hibs fan.?

silverhibee
24-01-2015, 05:41 PM
You no grey!! ;-)


Getting there. :thumbsup:

Aldo
24-01-2015, 05:42 PM
Getting there. :thumbsup:

Likewise.... It's an age thing apparently? ;-)

H18 SFR
24-01-2015, 05:54 PM
Apologies if this has already been mentioned, this could turn out very interesting as during the consultation process for this legislation, I seem to recall a discussion on radio Scotland which said that any conviction would result in a football banning order of some sort. These banning orders stipulate no access to a football ground, some may recall that Paul McManus, then of East Fife was detained by then Tayside police prior to a league cup fixture in Perth IIRC. Of course if I'm mislead I'm sure it will be pointed out.

greenginger
24-01-2015, 05:59 PM
I think he could be banned from attending games, but not from turning up to play.

That would be restraint of trade or some such breach of employment law , human rights, or who knows what law. :greengrin

Hibbyradge
24-01-2015, 06:11 PM
I think he could be banned from attending games, but not from turning up to play.

That would be restraint of trade or some such breach of employment law , human rights, or who knows what law. :greengrin

I think you're right.

Can you imagine the irony if Ched Evans, convicted rapist, who hasn't served his time yet, signed a professional contract.

In the meantime, Leigh Griffiths, convicted singer, is prohibited from playing.

PeeKay
24-01-2015, 06:12 PM
Je suis Leigh!!

The_Todd
24-01-2015, 07:20 PM
I see everyone's point that it's not fair they go after Leigh while leaving Der Hun to their own bigoted devices, but I'm afraid whataboutery isn't a defence, nor should it be. Griffiths was silly and he'll just need to take his medicine.

Nakedmanoncrack
24-01-2015, 08:25 PM
I see everyone's point that it's not fair they go after Leigh while leaving Der Hun to their own bigoted devices, but I'm afraid whataboutery isn't a defence, nor should it be. Griffiths was silly and he'll just need to take his medicine.

:agree:

SunshineOnLeith
24-01-2015, 08:32 PM
Who said it was a Hibs fan.?

It was in the Roseburn before a derby, wasn't it? Of course it was a Hibs fan.

silverhibee
24-01-2015, 08:41 PM
Likewise.... It's an age thing apparently? ;-)

You telling lies about your age. :tee hee:

silverhibee
24-01-2015, 08:50 PM
It was in the Roseburn before a derby, wasn't it? Of course it was a Hibs fan.

So everyone in the Roseburn that day was a Hibs fan.

Could have been a doorman, a member of the bar staff, even a yam with no colours on with a few Hibs mates.

Or it could have been a Hibs fan, maybe we will find out in court if this goes to trial, infact i guarantee this will go to trial.

bighairyfaeleith
24-01-2015, 08:53 PM
I'm not sure if you mean that you agree with LB's post or you agree that it isn't racism.

However, let's put that particular myth to bed.

Race is also defined as "a group of people united or classified together on the basis of common history, nationality, or geographic distribution."

racist to sing a anything about any other clubs fans then as they are united by a common history are they not?

Jazza
24-01-2015, 09:00 PM
Nothing like a good old witch hunt. Meanwhile at Ibrox and Celtc Park the sectarian songs carry on as normal.

What about Stokes with the IRA songs , that was put to bed quickly

hibbytam
24-01-2015, 09:02 PM
I see everyone's point that it's not fair they go after Leigh while leaving Der Hun to their own bigoted devices, but I'm afraid whataboutery isn't a defence, nor should it be. Griffiths was silly and he'll just need to take his medicine.

While I agree it was silly, I don't think it's worthy of police/court action.
And it raises questions about the law being applied equally regardless of who you are. The pub was full of people singing the exact same song, but only one person has been arrested?
The incident in question happened about a year ago, with the footage being widely available, yet he's only arrested now? Why did it take so long?

Sir David Gray
24-01-2015, 09:05 PM
It's absolutely pathetic that this has resulted in an arrest and a court case. What a waste of time and money.

How does it take nearly a year to bring a charge against someone in a case like this as well? :confused:

I don't particularly want to get into a deep discussion about the song itself as it's been done to death on here many times over the years. However, singing about someone being a refugee shouldn't result in a court case and I firmly believe that Griffiths and his legal team will win this without too much of a problem.

I'll leave it at that.

Colr
24-01-2015, 09:07 PM
Nothing like a good old witch hunt. Meanwhile at Ibrox and Celtc Park the sectarian songs carry on as normal.

Celtic need to take a hard line on this and sack him immediately.

bighairyfaeleith
24-01-2015, 09:11 PM
Celtic need to take a hard line on this and sack him immediately.

yes and then we should sign him and offer him sone rehabilitation after his time at celtic where he has clearly gone off the rails :greengrin

McD
24-01-2015, 09:12 PM
What about Stokes with the IRA songs , that was put to bed quickly


Regardless of of what the celtic hierarchy think of Leigh as a person or a footballer, I'd imagine that they will provide legal support for this, for several reasons.

- They won't want an asset (either on the pitch or potential sale) sitting in the stands for a period of time (except under their own choice)

- their own need to play the victim so often will drive them to defend him

- they'll point to the many perceived Catholic slights that are directed at them and ask the same question many here have - what's good for one is good for all, so why no other people charged? (If a trial takes place after the forthcoming OF match, I'm sure there will be plenty evidence (on both sides))

- the IRA stuff with stokes didn't bring any public rebuke from Celtic (that I noticed), and he's still gainfully employed by them



not saying he hasn't brought it on himself, or that he shouldn't be the only one. And there's no chance of police Scotland arresting several thousand a week at park head, Ibrox, Tynecastle, Easter road, pittodrie or anywhere else, far easier to pick out the easy targets.

silverhibee
24-01-2015, 09:16 PM
While I agree it was silly, I don't think it's worthy of police/court action.
And it raises questions about the law being applied equally regardless of who you are. The pub was full of people singing the exact same song, but only one person has been arrested?
The incident in question happened about a year ago, with the footage being widely available, yet he's only arrested now? Why did it take so long?

Maybe they see Griffiths as the instigator of the song and that is why he has been the one who has been charged. :dunno:

Colr
24-01-2015, 09:38 PM
yes and then we should sign him and offer him sone rehabilitation after his time at celtic where he has clearly gone off the rails :greengrin

You've spotted my plan!

superfurryhibby
25-01-2015, 09:49 AM
What about Stokes with the IRA songs , that was put to bed quickly

It's not illegal to sing IRA songs. Traditional songs with a republican theme are not particularly focused on killing Protestants, more on the overthrow of British rule.

green&left
25-01-2015, 09:59 AM
What about Stokes with the IRA songs , that was put to bed quickly

Thankfully Police Scotland with their 'Offensive Behaviour at Football' nonsense have no jurisdiction in Belfast and Dublin! Not that to mention that no crime was committed by Stokes.


The polis are itching to get someone done under the Offensive Behaviour at Football act/bill. 2 Celtic fans were up in court again for singing the Roll of Honour and again it was thrown out.

Hibbyradge
25-01-2015, 10:34 AM
racist to sing a anything about any other clubs fans then as they are united by a common history are they not?

I don't know if you're being serious about that, but I'll assume you are.

Supporting a football team is a choice. Being English or Czech, for example, isn't.

According to the United Nations Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination,

the term "racial discrimination" shall mean any distinction, exclusion, restriction, or preference based on race, colour, descent, or national or ethnic origin that has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on an equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural or any other field of public life.

givescotlandfreedom
25-01-2015, 11:06 AM
If Skachel or Ian Black had been caught on video singing a similar song, this site would be screaming for his blood.

Just saying.

Who uploaded the video anyway?

True. Surely it's time to put this ugly and quite offensive song to bed for good.

Sir David Gray
25-01-2015, 02:44 PM
It's not illegal to sing IRA songs. Traditional songs with a republican theme are not particularly focused on killing Protestants, more on the overthrow of British rule.

The IRA is a proscribed terrorist organisation within the UK and it is against the law to show support for such groups. I would imagine that singing songs in relation to such an organisation would be considered as showing support and therefore illegal.

superfurryhibby
25-01-2015, 02:49 PM
The IRA is a proscribed terrorist organisation within the UK and it is against the law to show support for such groups. I would imagine that singing songs in relation to such an organisation would be considered as showing support and therefore illegal.

The IRA have been around a long time, way before the laws you refer to. Better tell Christy Moore, he sings them to thousands

Sir David Gray
25-01-2015, 02:55 PM
The IRA have been around a long time, way before the laws you refer to. Better tell Christy Moore, he sings them to thousands

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/397683/Proscription-20150123.pdf

marinello59
25-01-2015, 02:59 PM
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/397683/Proscription-20150123.pdf

It's still not illegal to sing songs. If it is the WolfeTones are going down for a very long time. :greengrin

One Day
25-01-2015, 04:04 PM
If Skachel or Ian Black had been caught on video singing a similar song, this site would be screaming for his blood,?

But would they be being taken to court????

Carheenlea
25-01-2015, 10:23 PM
The IRA have been around a long time, way before the laws you refer to. Better tell Christy Moore, he sings them to thousands

Not in the last 25 years or so he hasn't.

macca70
25-01-2015, 10:29 PM
There must be plenty footage of Jambo's singing about the Hibees being gay, this is now a banned song but they continue to sing it.

Police and outcome of LG's court case is setting a very dangerous precedent.

There will be literally hundred of mobile phone videos submitted to the police after every Derby with people claiming to be offended by songs being sung.

IMO LG's lawyer will rip this charge to shreds probably to the point where the courts are wondering how did the case ever get anywhere near a court room.

khib70
25-01-2015, 10:34 PM
Top thread on Hibs.net - about a Celtc player acting like a tanked up arse on You Tube and rightly getting done for it. Total bloody nonsense. The guy's not a Hibs player any more and even if he was, singing ignorant, bigoted songs in public would still be out of order. Save your solidarity for someone who deserves it FFS.

FranckSuzy
25-01-2015, 10:42 PM
Top thread on Hibs.net - about a Celtc player acting like a tanked up arse on You Tube and rightly getting done for it. Total bloody nonsense. The guy's not a Hibs player any more and even if he was, singing ignorant, bigoted songs in public would still be out of order. Save your solidarity for someone who deserves it FFS.

But the point is (I think :greengrin) that 'the authorities' are not applying the rules fairly and appear to be targeting LG.

macca70
26-01-2015, 12:10 AM
Top thread on Hibs.net - about a Celtc player acting like a tanked up arse on You Tube and rightly getting done for it. Total bloody nonsense. The guy's not a Hibs player any more and even if he was, singing ignorant, bigoted songs in public would still be out of order. Save your solidarity for someone who deserves it FFS.

Awfy angry, had a bad day?

You realise what he's been charged with? In a pub full of fellow Hibs fans, having a sing song with Hibs fans in which the whole pub was joining in but only 1 person has been singled out and charged.

I'd say that's newsworthy to have s thread on Hibs.net.

greenginger
26-01-2015, 12:39 AM
There must be plenty footage of Jambo's singing about the Hibees being gay, this is now a banned song but they continue to sing it.

Police and outcome of LG's court case is setting a very dangerous precedent.

There will be literally hundred of mobile phone videos submitted to the police after every Derby with people claiming to be offended by songs being sung.

IMO LG's lawyer will rip this charge to shreds probably to the point where the courts are wondering how did the case ever get anywhere near a court room.


Have Griffith's lawyer been named anywhere ?

monktonharp
26-01-2015, 12:59 AM
I was told on another thread unrelated to this that it can't be racism as being Czech, Scottish or from any country isn't a race.scots, is not a race? or do you mean Scottish?

monktonharp
26-01-2015, 01:11 AM
Without a doubt the most idiotic song Hibs fans have ever sung. I doubt it's more offensive than some of the stuff Griffiths has had to put up with but that's a different issue. Hopefully we won't need to hear it again now.I don't actually get your drift. this song you refer to is:? so it is less offensive than what Griffiths has to deal with/ I don't get it.

monktonharp
26-01-2015, 01:17 AM
There is no doubt he's guilty of offensive behavior, someone somewhere is always offended. The link i put up of Lennon must offend someone, my question is how far will they go back with these new laws, or will it just be easy targets like this they will go after?so do explain what neil lennon actually did.that could take us back a couple of seasons, nearly

greenginger
26-01-2015, 10:05 AM
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/celtic-striker-leigh-griffiths-face-3337642


What ever happened about the SFA charge that he sang a song about a Club that went bust, em .... going bust !

Outrageous behavior indeed ! :greengrin

blackpoolhibs
26-01-2015, 04:42 PM
so do explain what neil lennon actually did.that could take us back a couple of seasons, nearly

He sang a song saying the rangers are *****, its obvious certain folk would be offended with that? :confused:

Andy74
26-01-2015, 04:47 PM
There must be plenty footage of Jambo's singing about the Hibees being gay, this is now a banned song but they continue to sing it.

Police and outcome of LG's court case is setting a very dangerous precedent.

There will be literally hundred of mobile phone videos submitted to the police after every Derby with people claiming to be offended by songs being sung.

IMO LG's lawyer will rip this charge to shreds probably to the point where the courts are wondering how did the case ever get anywhere near a court room.

It's been debated to death on here but I still don't think the intention of the Skacel song was ever to be racis or to cause offense to any genuine refugees.

I don't think it was thought through as much as that and it went down quite well at the time on the away Euro trip where it kicked off.

Obviously when you work it through in the cold light of day you can see where people are coming from.

Anyway, I'd think a decent lawyer would be able to make fairly light of work of arguing this one through.

Itsnoteasy
26-01-2015, 11:13 PM
So the police can deal with this obviously, however they still make zero effort to do anything about the sectarian singing from Rangers/Celtic/to a lesser extent Hearts fans every week.
Hearts fans can sing homophobic songs regularly, Callum Paterson can make homophobic tweets and nothing is done about it.
The Skacel song is dreadful and it was stupid of Leigh to sing it. It was actually him that started it off, which is even more ridiculous. I stood in the Roseburn that morning and instantly turned to my mate and said "he's really gonna regret that".
If I remember correctly, the song was started 10 years ago as a direct result of Hearts fans singing "Rudi Skacel is a ****ing goal machine". I'm guessing someone thought refugee fitted into the song more than it actually making sense?! Silly song that's got two Hibs/ex Hibs strikers in trouble. Thankfully it's not really sung anymore.

And did you join in with the song?

NadeAteMyLunch!
26-01-2015, 11:22 PM
And did you join in with the song?

Nope. Gave that one up during his first spell, after it got Riordan in bother. Not bothered by anyone else singing it if they so desire. Nobody is meaning to be racist when they sing it. It's just a bit crap and nothing good can come out of it for anybody. As this thread highlights

silverhibee
26-01-2015, 11:37 PM
Have Griffith's lawyer been named anywhere ?

His last trial.

She is one of the best CDL you can get in Edinburgh.

Andy74
27-01-2015, 08:00 AM
His last trial.

She is one of the best CDL you can get in Edinburgh.

Assume it's Kathleen More. Hibs players in particular have kept her going over the years!

Casey1875
27-01-2015, 09:07 AM
Is the song not technically accurate as he is an economic refugee? Ie he can earn more money in the uk as a footballer than if he played in his home country.

lord bunberry
27-01-2015, 09:38 AM
Je suis Leigh!!

:faf:

Steve-O
27-01-2015, 10:11 AM
I can't believe that 9.5 years on this song is still the subject of fierce debate.

Get over it FFS.

greenginger
27-01-2015, 10:16 AM
Is the song not technically accurate as he is an economic refugee? Ie he can earn more money in the uk as a footballer than if he played in his home country.


A tax Refugee would be a better description of the cretin. ( see post 37 )



http://www.nestmann.com/growing-numbers-of-tax-refugees-exit-usa-permanently#.VMdk8uN_tid

snooky
27-01-2015, 03:18 PM
A tax Refugee would be a better description of the cretin. ( see post 37 )



http://www.nestmann.com/growing-numbers-of-tax-refugees-exit-usa-permanently#.VMdk8uN_tid

Heart at tax sounds a serious business :wink:

Hibbykk
27-01-2015, 05:04 PM
Je suis Leigh!!

Indeed, what a strange world we live in. The whole of the Western world up in arms over freedom of speach and defending Charlie Hebdo's right to say what it likes regardless of who it offends and Leigh gets arrested in Free Scotland for singing a song in a pub.