Concerns about HoH and BuyHibs

[matty_f]

The last couple of days has seen an increase in noise and activity from BuyHibs and Hands On Hibs, prompting yesterday's statement from Leeann Dempster to attempt to set the record straight a little.

I'm happy that people want to challenge the information being given, and happy that people are prepared to ask questions about the proposition which has seen Hibs offer up new shares to give fans the opportunity to own a majority 51% of the football club.

I'm less happy about the way that questioning has been conducted. Accusations of a 'shakedown' and thinly-veiled accusations that Sir Tom Farmer, Rod Petrie, and Leeann Dempster have somehow misled or lied to the fans about the re-structuring of debt are, IMHO, unfounded, unhelpful, and dangerous to the chances of supporters getting a genuine say in the club.

Mike Reilly's statement today tells me that some people are listening and taking heed of the allegations from HoH and BuyHibs, and his advice to Hibs fans was to not participate in the scheme.

I find it astonishing that the Chairman of the HSA would make a statement like that. I found it more astonishing that people are taking the BuyHibs and HoH stance as the one that's not mis-leading.

IMHO, Hands On Hibs and BuyHibs' allegations are founded on nothing more than assumptions and supposition. They have, as far as I can see, yet to put forward any tangible and telling evidence or argument to back up their claims.

Even a very basic sense check on their claims shows more holes than an industrial sized sieve.

Let's look at them - starting with the shakedown claim. So let's say Sir Tom Farmer and Rod Petrie have sat down together and thought about how they can shaft the fans for more money at their gain.

What's their starting point? Well, they're starting with essentially full ownership of the football club between them. They own the club pretty much lock, stock and barrel.

Petrie, for a while (I'm not sure if it's still the case) didn't take a salary from Hibs. Probably one of the easiest ways to get money out of the football club and into his pocket. He didn't do it. Too obvious maybe? Maybe he took a massive dividend over the years. Nope?

What about Sir Tom Farmer, the multi-millionaire, where's he standing to make money from Hibs? Why would he be motivated to do so - has he fallen on hard times, has he set himself the challenge on making money from owning a football club where every other owner has failed?

How much are they pocketing from the share issue? Not a bean. Really? These are the guys that are shaking us down!

What about the debt though? That has to be repaid, surely? Of course, and who does that money go back to - the people that provided it? That's quite a radge way to shake folk down. I'll give you a tenner, then you can give me it back at terms favourable to you. What a cunning cad I am!!

The debt stands to be repaid at a set amount over a set period of time as far as I'm aware - the same as most borrowing is repaid. Shakedown? Doesn't look like it.

If we (Hibs) are repaying it at £1k a month, and our income is £10k a month, then that other £9k can go on other things, notably the football side of the business.

The thing is though, that £1k is getting spent on the debt, that's part of borrowing money - you have to repay it at some point.

The share issue will give extra revenue. So instead of operating on the £10k a month that I used as example, let's say we operate on £20k a month - we still spend £1k on debt, that was the agreement. The rest is available as extra cash for the football operation. Shakedown? I don't see it.

This claim that there is no HSL representation on the board doesn't stand up either - for a start Leeann Dempster is named on the board of HSL, and runs the football club. Providing the share issue is fully subscribed, the support - as majority shareholders - can put who they want on to the board.

So if Hibs supporters become the majority shareholders, and STF and RP no longer own the club lock, stock, and barrel, what have they gained from this? What's the shakedown?

They're not getting a penny of the new share money. Their own ownership and shares are being diluted - they're giving stuff up, not gaining from it.

The only winners in this are the football club who make some money, and the support - who can own the club we love.

Shakedown? It's a ridiculous notion and doesn't stand up to any scrutiny. We're not lining anyone's pockets if we take up shares. We're putting money into the football club. To be spent on improving the side.

The money's not going on infrastructure, debt, or to existing shareholders.

It's not rocket science.

Where's the shakedown.

If Hands on Hibs or BuyHibs or Simon Pia, Mike Reilly, or anyone else labelling this as a shakedown can come on and explain, in detail and with evidence that is more than supposition and accusations, then I'm all ears.

I genuinely can't see that happening though, because like their bull**** claims that Hibs were somehow going to syphon off the stadium and training centre, their shakedown claims are bollocks, and I'll continue to think that way until they can show otherwise.

You might have guessed by the tone of this post (and congratulations if you made it this far) that I am entirely pissed off with the sabotaging of our football club by people who claim to have it's best interests at heart. I'd welcome it and shake them by the hand if they could back up their claims and they end up preventing some Scooby-doo-esque
plot involving Old Man Petrie who, at the end of it all as he's being carted away for some heinous fraud charges, mutters "I would have got away with it if it wasn't for you pesky kids!", but the chances of that happening are about the same as me ending tonight baw-deep in Scarlett Johannsen.

[Eyrie]

Perfectly stated :top marks

[Pete]

I totally share your concerns and can't really add to that.

These empty vessels are becoming dangerous.

[pacorosssco]

I agree but I think for HIbernian FC to move forward as one. Rod Petrie should slash his wrist and write in blood he will make zero financial gain from our great club. He has done great damage and does not deserve any reward.

[Just Alf]

Brilliant post..... And I read all of it :wink:

It's almost as if they're deep under cover Yams the way they're seemingly trying to damage the club.

PS I know they aren't, just feels that way at times!

[Benny Brazil]

Bang on the money Matty - really concerned about the influence that HOH is having in the media more than on the fans.

[DaveF]

A great post Matty and I really hope Simon Pia or Mike Reilly take up your challenge to argue their case.

Like you though, I'm not sure they will.

[Jonnyboy]

A great post Matty and I really hope Simon Pia or Mike Reilly take up your challenge to argue their case.

Like you though, I'm not sure they will.

More chance of him getting that date with Scarlett :greengrin

[Peevemor]

Spot on Matty!

[matty_f]

More chance of him getting that date with Scarlett :greengrin

I've got my lucky pants on! :greengrin:

[Scouse Hibee]

What a read! Great post.....answers on a postcard to matty f if they dare.

[marinello59]

Well said Matty.

[Just Alf]

I've got my lucky pants on! :greengrin:

'No sure Lucky would like that! :shocked:

[jabis]

Well said that man !

[matty_f]

'No sure Lucky would like that! :shocked:

:faf:

[PiemanP]

Is Mike Reilly standing for one of the director positions? His history of comments to the press are very worrying.

HoH / buy hibs are creating a lot of unwanted noise, all of it in my opinion complete rubbish and potentially damaging. Hopefully people see through it.

[Mikey]

Their position will get weaker and weaker as the rest of the support buys up the shares and gradually has a greater say in the running of the club. If anything it'll galvanise the fans who don't have an axe to grind and these factions will increasingly be frozen out.

As I've said before, while they're outside making a noise we'll be inside making decisions.

[johnbc70]

Well said, sums up how I feel.

[Kaiserclem]

Spot on! The yams and everyone else must be laughing at us as fans. Idiots saying stuff that isn't right. Ok, let's say we follow HOH, buyhibs and the head of HSA clubs advice, don't support it. Where does that leave us, it leaves us nowhere. In exactly the same way we are just now. No change, but we all demanded dacha he but they don't want us to support the change lol unbelievable. As said above, STF and RP are losing on this deal, not gaining. Let's follow the HOH leader as he's a sensible, role model type of guy and does really good looking posters / hoodies for everything he does. Only decent thing they have done was the food bank, credit where credit is due that was tremendous and I supported it myself. Everything else is an embarrassment and disgrace to our club. Publicity seeking, shameful antics. Support the club through the change we all demanded instead of slagging off every change being tried.

[grunt]

And now David Low makes a "statement".
Whoever he is.

It almost appears as though there is a concerted effort by a small group of people to derail these proposals.

[Pretty Boy]

:top marks

'A house divided against itself cannot stand'.

Time for HoH and BuyHibs to put up or shut up imo. BuyHibs stance confuses me, surely now is the time to start collecting pledge and use that money to buy up the shares made available? That would give them a degree of influence and credibility. As for HoH? A bunch of loud mouths with no plan beyond 'every **** out'. No alternative plan, no substance, no coherent argument. The sad image of an ageing, irrelevant journalist with a personal vendetta playing puppet master to both groups is all too real with a little bit imagination.

Mike Riley would have done well to canvas his association before going to press. At the end of the day though the views of the association are only relevant to members of the association. I'm not going to talk down the HSA but more fans are not members than are by quite a margin.

I've said a few times recently people have a clear choice, get on board with the changes being made and support your club or don't. That really is the choice. Unless you have a clear plan for better change and the finance to pull it off then mouthing off and trying to fracture the fan base is counter productive and destructive. Questioning, scrutinising and holding the club to account is one thing. Making baseless allegations and trying to discourage other fans from supporting their club is quite another. The sooner the shares become available and those of us who want to be part of the future show our support the better, it will hasten the demise of the irrelevant empty vessels.

[Hibs Class]

Is Mike Reilly standing for one of the director positions? His history of comments to the press are very worrying.

HoH / buy hibs are creating a lot of unwanted noise, all of it in my opinion complete rubbish and potentially damaging. Hopefully people see through it.

In the past when I've read comments attributed to Riley I've tended to give him the benefit of the doubt, sometimes against my better judgement, on the basis that he may have been asked for a quote on a topic and been caught a little off-guard. However a prepared media release is far more premeditated and so less forgivable, especially when it is so negative. I cannot think of a time that he has ever spoken for me.

[Hibby D]

What a fabulous post Mattie and a word perfect summary of how things are!
HoH and Buy Hibs are a laughing stock. A joke. An embarrassment. And I can't wait for the day their gas is put at a peep!




A great post Matty and I really hope Simon Pia or Mike Reilly take up your challenge to argue their case.

Like you though, I'm not sure they will.

I agree; they won't. There isn't one of them could lace Mattie's boots in this debate!

[Kaiserclem]

Mike Rielly's comments today on behalf of HSA bemuses me. I am a member of HSA and have never been asked by him or any of his Hareem what my opinion is. Another example of people who should shut up and be a Hibs fan rather than a publicity seeker who we can add to the embarrassing list. Our club is trying to change, as we requested, but it's getting silly. We're a joke as fans tbh.

[Kaiserclem]

Simon Pia needs to shut up IMO and get a real job. Hibs fan? An idiot in my world.

[lucky]

'No sure Lucky would like that! :shocked:

Too far lol

[O'Rourke3]

Top post

[lucky]

The last couple of days has seen an increase in noise and activity from BuyHibs and Hands On Hibs, prompting yesterday's statement from Leeann Dempster to attempt to set the record straight a little.

I'm happy that people want to challenge the information being given, and happy that people are prepared to ask questions about the proposition which has seen Hibs offer up new shares to give fans the opportunity to own a majority 51% of the football club.

I'm less happy about the way that questioning has been conducted. Accusations of a 'shakedown' and thinly-veiled accusations that Sir Tom Farmer, Rod Petrie, and Leeann Dempster have somehow misled or lied to the fans about the re-structuring of debt are, IMHO, unfounded, unhelpful, and dangerous to the chances of supporters getting a genuine say in the club.

Mike Reilly's statement today tells me that some people are listening and taking heed of the allegations from HoH and BuyHibs, and his advice to Hibs fans was to not participate in the scheme.

I find it astonishing that the Chairman of the HSA would make a statement like that. I found it more astonishing that people are taking the BuyHibs and HoH stance as the one that's not mis-leading.

IMHO, Hands On Hibs and BuyHibs' allegations are founded on nothing more than assumptions and supposition. They have, as far as I can see, yet to put forward any tangible and telling evidence or argument to back up their claims.

Even a very basic sense check on their claims shows more holes than an industrial sized sieve.

Let's look at them - starting with the shakedown claim. So let's say Sir Tom Farmer and Rod Petrie have sat down together and thought about how they can shaft the fans for more money at their gain.

What's their starting point? Well, they're starting with essentially full ownership of the football club between them. They own the club pretty much lock, stock and barrel.

Petrie, for a while (I'm not sure if it's still the case) didn't take a salary from Hibs. Probably one of the easiest ways to get money out of the football club and into his pocket. He didn't do it. Too obvious maybe? Maybe he took a massive dividend over the years. Nope?

What about Sir Tom Farmer, the multi-millionaire, where's he standing to make money from Hibs? Why would he be motivated to do so - has he fallen on hard times, has he set himself the challenge on making money from owning a football club where every other owner has failed?

How much are they pocketing from the share issue? Not a bean. Really? These are the guys that are shaking us down!

What about the debt though? That has to be repaid, surely? Of course, and who does that money go back to - the people that provided it? That's quite a radge way to shake folk down. I'll give you a tenner, then you can give me it back at terms favourable to you. What a cunning cad I am!!

The debt stands to be repaid at a set amount over a set period of time as far as I'm aware - the same as most borrowing is repaid. Shakedown? Doesn't look like it.

If we (Hibs) are repaying it at £1k a month, and our income is £10k a month, then that other £9k can go on other things, notably the football side of the business.

The thing is though, that £1k is getting spent on the debt, that's part of borrowing money - you have to repay it at some point.

The share issue will give extra revenue. So instead of operating on the £10k a month that I used as example, let's say we operate on £20k a month - we still spend £1k on debt, that was the agreement. The rest is available as extra cash for the football operation. Shakedown? I don't see it.

This claim that there is no HSL representation on the board doesn't stand up either - for a start Leeann Dempster is named on the board of HSL, and runs the football club. Providing the share issue is fully subscribed, the support - as majority shareholders - can put who they want on to the board.

So if Hibs supporters become the majority shareholders, and STF and RP no longer own the club lock, stock, and barrel, what have they gained from this? What's the shakedown?

They're not getting a penny of the new share money. Their own ownership and shares are being diluted - they're giving stuff up, not gaining from it.

The only winners in this are the football club who make some money, and the support - who can own the club we love.

Shakedown? It's a ridiculous notion and doesn't stand up to any scrutiny. We're not lining anyone's pockets if we take up shares. We're putting money into the football club. To be spent on improving the side.

The money's not going on infrastructure, debt, or to existing shareholders.

It's not rocket science.

Where's the shakedown.

If Hands on Hibs or BuyHibs or Simon Pia, Mike Reilly, or anyone else labelling this as a shakedown can come on and explain, in detail and with evidence that is more than supposition and accusations, then I'm all ears.

I genuinely can't see that happening though, because like their bull**** claims that Hibs were somehow going to syphon off the stadium and training centre, their shakedown claims are bollocks, and I'll continue to think that way until they can show otherwise.

You might have guessed by the tone of this post (and congratulations if you made it this far) that I am entirely pissed off with the sabotaging of our football club by people who claim to have it's best interests at heart. I'd welcome it and shake them by the hand if they could back up their claims and they end up preventing some Scooby-doo-esque
plot involving Old Man Petrie who, at the end of it all as he's being carted away for some heinous fraud charges, mutters "I would have got away with it if it wasn't for you pesky kids!", but the chances of that happening are about the same as me ending tonight baw-deep in Scarlett Johannsen.

Cracking post, but i doubt any of BuyHibs or HoH will come back with facts to shout you down

[Hibs90]

These groups accusations must come from their hatred of all things Petrie and Farmer, which in a way I can understand but that doesn't give them the right to go around throwing these accusations and what is obviously complete nonsense. I'll be backing HSL and the club all the way. BuyHibs and HOH can go fling cow dung at themselves. :na na:

[erin go bragh]

Nai on head . Post of the year so far .

Ggtth

[Bostonhibby]

The last couple of days has seen an increase in noise and activity from BuyHibs and Hands On Hibs, prompting yesterday's statement from Leeann Dempster to attempt to set the record straight a little.

I'm happy that people want to challenge the information being given, and happy that people are prepared to ask questions about the proposition which has seen Hibs offer up new shares to give fans the opportunity to own a majority 51% of the football club.

I'm less happy about the way that questioning has been conducted. Accusations of a 'shakedown' and thinly-veiled accusations that Sir Tom Farmer, Rod Petrie, and Leeann Dempster have somehow misled or lied to the fans about the re-structuring of debt are, IMHO, unfounded, unhelpful, and dangerous to the chances of supporters getting a genuine say in the club.

Mike Reilly's statement today tells me that some people are listening and taking heed of the allegations from HoH and BuyHibs, and his advice to Hibs fans was to not participate in the scheme.

I find it astonishing that the Chairman of the HSA would make a statement like that. I found it more astonishing that people are taking the BuyHibs and HoH stance as the one that's not mis-leading.

IMHO, Hands On Hibs and BuyHibs' allegations are founded on nothing more than assumptions and supposition. They have, as far as I can see, yet to put forward any tangible and telling evidence or argument to back up their claims.

Even a very basic sense check on their claims shows more holes than an industrial sized sieve.

Let's look at them - starting with the shakedown claim. So let's say Sir Tom Farmer and Rod Petrie have sat down together and thought about how they can shaft the fans for more money at their gain.

What's their starting point? Well, they're starting with essentially full ownership of the football club between them. They own the club pretty much lock, stock and barrel.

Petrie, for a while (I'm not sure if it's still the case) didn't take a salary from Hibs. Probably one of the easiest ways to get money out of the football club and into his pocket. He didn't do it. Too obvious maybe? Maybe he took a massive dividend over the years. Nope?

What about Sir Tom Farmer, the multi-millionaire, where's he standing to make money from Hibs? Why would he be motivated to do so - has he fallen on hard times, has he set himself the challenge on making money from owning a football club where every other owner has failed?

How much are they pocketing from the share issue? Not a bean. Really? These are the guys that are shaking us down!

What about the debt though? That has to be repaid, surely? Of course, and who does that money go back to - the people that provided it? That's quite a radge way to shake folk down. I'll give you a tenner, then you can give me it back at terms favourable to you. What a cunning cad I am!!

The debt stands to be repaid at a set amount over a set period of time as far as I'm aware - the same as most borrowing is repaid. Shakedown? Doesn't look like it.

If we (Hibs) are repaying it at £1k a month, and our income is £10k a month, then that other £9k can go on other things, notably the football side of the business.

The thing is though, that £1k is getting spent on the debt, that's part of borrowing money - you have to repay it at some point.

The share issue will give extra revenue. So instead of operating on the £10k a month that I used as example, let's say we operate on £20k a month - we still spend £1k on debt, that was the agreement. The rest is available as extra cash for the football operation. Shakedown? I don't see it.

This claim that there is no HSL representation on the board doesn't stand up either - for a start Leeann Dempster is named on the board of HSL, and runs the football club. Providing the share issue is fully subscribed, the support - as majority shareholders - can put who they want on to the board.

So if Hibs supporters become the majority shareholders, and STF and RP no longer own the club lock, stock, and barrel, what have they gained from this? What's the shakedown?

They're not getting a penny of the new share money. Their own ownership and shares are being diluted - they're giving stuff up, not gaining from it.

The only winners in this are the football club who make some money, and the support - who can own the club we love.

Shakedown? It's a ridiculous notion and doesn't stand up to any scrutiny. We're not lining anyone's pockets if we take up shares. We're putting money into the football club. To be spent on improving the side.

The money's not going on infrastructure, debt, or to existing shareholders.

It's not rocket science.

Where's the shakedown.

If Hands on Hibs or BuyHibs or Simon Pia, Mike Reilly, or anyone else labelling this as a shakedown can come on and explain, in detail and with evidence that is more than supposition and accusations, then I'm all ears.

I genuinely can't see that happening though, because like their bull**** claims that Hibs were somehow going to syphon off the stadium and training centre, their shakedown claims are bollocks, and I'll continue to think that way until they can show otherwise.

You might have guessed by the tone of this post (and congratulations if you made it this far) that I am entirely pissed off with the sabotaging of our football club by people who claim to have it's best interests at heart. I'd welcome it and shake them by the hand if they could back up their claims and they end up preventing some Scooby-doo-esque
plot involving Old Man Petrie who, at the end of it all as he's being carted away for some heinous fraud charges, mutters "I would have got away with it if it wasn't for you pesky kids!", but the chances of that happening are about the same as me ending tonight baw-deep in Scarlett Johannsen.

A succinct analysis of the facts of the situation - its unlikely to result in a similar level of detail and fact in response as the parties to whom it is addressed are fighting a rearguard action hoping to influence through sensationalist statements making use of the media contacts they have. As time goes by its hard to see how this approach will gain much more influence beyond its core group.

The media typically likes controversy, especially when someone else serves it up on a plate to them. Once the story being spun has run its course they will have to dream something else up to keep the medias interest, we seem to be getting little if any answers to questions posed to HOH/buyhibs alliance at this stage - it might be a deliberate tactic - I guess it's down to how many people will ultimately be persuaded that the information and style of delivery from these sources is a good reason not to take up the Club / HSL offer. Time will tell on this one.

Most of those who do buy into the club / HSL offer in this way will use their own intelligence and instincts to evaluate the actual option from the club that is on the table now against the alternatives and what they are saying, doing and offering.

The analysis above seems to me to be as near as I can get to the reality of the clubs and the owners intentions. I have been persuaded to buy based on what the club has issued to date - far fewer questions left unresolved than when we were challenging Buyhibs proposition.

[Ozyhibby]

Great OP

[Mikey09]

The last couple of days has seen an increase in noise and activity from BuyHibs and Hands On Hibs, prompting yesterday's statement from Leeann Dempster to attempt to set the record straight a little.

I'm happy that people want to challenge the information being given, and happy that people are prepared to ask questions about the proposition which has seen Hibs offer up new shares to give fans the opportunity to own a majority 51% of the football club.

I'm less happy about the way that questioning has been conducted. Accusations of a 'shakedown' and thinly-veiled accusations that Sir Tom Farmer, Rod Petrie, and Leeann Dempster have somehow misled or lied to the fans about the re-structuring of debt are, IMHO, unfounded, unhelpful, and dangerous to the chances of supporters getting a genuine say in the club.

Mike Reilly's statement today tells me that some people are listening and taking heed of the allegations from HoH and BuyHibs, and his advice to Hibs fans was to not participate in the scheme.

I find it astonishing that the Chairman of the HSA would make a statement like that. I found it more astonishing that people are taking the BuyHibs and HoH stance as the one that's not mis-leading.

IMHO, Hands On Hibs and BuyHibs' allegations are founded on nothing more than assumptions and supposition. They have, as far as I can see, yet to put forward any tangible and telling evidence or argument to back up their claims.

Even a very basic sense check on their claims shows more holes than an industrial sized sieve.

Let's look at them - starting with the shakedown claim. So let's say Sir Tom Farmer and Rod Petrie have sat down together and thought about how they can shaft the fans for more money at their gain.

What's their starting point? Well, they're starting with essentially full ownership of the football club between them. They own the club pretty much lock, stock and barrel.

Petrie, for a while (I'm not sure if it's still the case) didn't take a salary from Hibs. Probably one of the easiest ways to get money out of the football club and into his pocket. He didn't do it. Too obvious maybe? Maybe he took a massive dividend over the years. Nope?

What about Sir Tom Farmer, the multi-millionaire, where's he standing to make money from Hibs? Why would he be motivated to do so - has he fallen on hard times, has he set himself the challenge on making money from owning a football club where every other owner has failed?

How much are they pocketing from the share issue? Not a bean. Really? These are the guys that are shaking us down!

What about the debt though? That has to be repaid, surely? Of course, and who does that money go back to - the people that provided it? That's quite a radge way to shake folk down. I'll give you a tenner, then you can give me it back at terms favourable to you. What a cunning cad I am!!

The debt stands to be repaid at a set amount over a set period of time as far as I'm aware - the same as most borrowing is repaid. Shakedown? Doesn't look like it.

If we (Hibs) are repaying it at £1k a month, and our income is £10k a month, then that other £9k can go on other things, notably the football side of the business.

The thing is though, that £1k is getting spent on the debt, that's part of borrowing money - you have to repay it at some point.

The share issue will give extra revenue. So instead of operating on the £10k a month that I used as example, let's say we operate on £20k a month - we still spend £1k on debt, that was the agreement. The rest is available as extra cash for the football operation. Shakedown? I don't see it.

This claim that there is no HSL representation on the board doesn't stand up either - for a start Leeann Dempster is named on the board of HSL, and runs the football club. Providing the share issue is fully subscribed, the support - as majority shareholders - can put who they want on to the board.

So if Hibs supporters become the majority shareholders, and STF and RP no longer own the club lock, stock, and barrel, what have they gained from this? What's the shakedown?

They're not getting a penny of the new share money. Their own ownership and shares are being diluted - they're giving stuff up, not gaining from it.

The only winners in this are the football club who make some money, and the support - who can own the club we love.

Shakedown? It's a ridiculous notion and doesn't stand up to any scrutiny. We're not lining anyone's pockets if we take up shares. We're putting money into the football club. To be spent on improving the side.

The money's not going on infrastructure, debt, or to existing shareholders.

It's not rocket science.

Where's the shakedown.

If Hands on Hibs or BuyHibs or Simon Pia, Mike Reilly, or anyone else labelling this as a shakedown can come on and explain, in detail and with evidence that is more than supposition and accusations, then I'm all ears.

I genuinely can't see that happening though, because like their bull**** claims that Hibs were somehow going to syphon off the stadium and training centre, their shakedown claims are bollocks, and I'll continue to think that way until they can show otherwise.

You might have guessed by the tone of this post (and congratulations if you made it this far) that I am entirely pissed off with the sabotaging of our football club by people who claim to have it's best interests at heart. I'd welcome it and shake them by the hand if they could back up their claims and they end up preventing some Scooby-doo-esque
plot involving Old Man Petrie who, at the end of it all as he's being carted away for some heinous fraud charges, mutters "I would have got away with it if it wasn't for you pesky kids!", but the chances of that happening are about the same as me ending tonight baw-deep in Scarlett Johannsen.


Absolutely mate. Imagine any of them in court?!

"Yes I know you're claiming this Mr Reilly, but what evidence do you have?"
"Erm... None Mu Lord."
"Case dismissed."

:rolleyes:

[Ozyhibby]

On HoH, be a good idea for fans who disagree with them to stop taking flyers off them before games.

[portyhibernian]

Attention seeking mouth(ring?)pieces, nothing more. As for Mike Reilly, I don't know him from Adam but going by current and previous comments he certainly doesn't represent my views.

[monarch]

My main concern with HOH and BuyHibs is the amount of media coverage given to them which is totally disproportionate to their following. It's giving the outside world the impression that's we are at war with each other whereas they are being driven by a very small minority with agendas against STF and Rp going back years eg Paul Kane and Simon Pia. As for Mike Riley he seems to inhabit a planet where he thinks he speaks for all in the HSA, A man on a power trip.
I agree that the club took it's eye off the ball during the last few years but it looks like RP isn't leaving anytime soon so let's let bygones be bygones and look positively to the future. Supporters now have the chance to own a majority of the club and STF Has arranged to free the club from the bank debt. What exactly do HOH and Buyhibs want that isn't being offered ?

[worcesterhibby]

agree entirely with OP. Well said.

[Dashing Bob S]

Ultimately, whether the board or the protest groups are vilified, people will take their own view from the information presented. If anybody invests because the board says it's a good deal, or doesn't because some groups say it's a rip-off, then good luck to them, but I can't respect either position.

I think the reason groups critical of the board have so much traction, is due to the abysmal mismanagement of the club by Farmer/Petrie over the best part of the last decade. However, while I'm cynical that they've completely turned over a new leaf, I do believe that there is real leadership and direction at Hibs now, principally coming from Dempster, and I don't like seeing her attacked as part of this 'ancient regime' cabal.

[jacomo]

:top marks

'A house divided against itself cannot stand'.

Time for HoH and BuyHibs to put up or shut up imo. BuyHibs stance confuses me, surely now is the time to start collecting pledge and use that money to buy up the shares made available? That would give them a degree of influence and credibility.

Good point. Didn't BuyHibs say they'd work with anyone to achieve 'change'? Weren't they desperate to sit down with STF? £2.5m gets you 51% of shares - that's a lot of influence.

[basehibby]

Superb OP from Matty F. So come on HoH and Buy Hibs - where are you with you're reasoned responses? You have a large audience of Hibs fans here just waiting to be convinced.

If there IS any kind of shakedown going on then we'd certainly be desperate to know about it - Matty has argued against so lets hear ya!

[Aldo]

Great post Matty.

[CRAZYHIBBY]

Bang on the money Matty - really concerned about the influence that HOH is having in the media more than on the fans.

Im only quoting u because i like ur avatar

[Borderhibbie76]

well come on HOH or BUYHIBS...where are you with your responses? Instead of bad mouthing via the media, why not come on here and have a debate with the real people, the Hibs fans? We are all waiting with interest to hear your evidence and reasonng for your current stance against the club? So far the only facts have come from Leeann Dempster as far as I can see....and thats good enough for me.

[chasitup]

Matty, I couldn't agree more with what you've said here. It's not rocket science as far as I can see. These groups have never spoken for me, and never will. As for Mike Reilly, he's never shared the same view as me going on his statements.

[leroykincade]

Matty, I couldn't agree more with what you've said here. It's not rocket science as far as I can see. These groups have never spoken for me, and never will. As for Mike Reilly, he's never shared the same view as me going on his statements.

These groups HSA and the HOH could de-rail the process of the club moving forward, we need to hear more from HSL , while I have great respect for Leann she will be perceived as to close to the current owners, none of which I have any problem with btw, as Matty clearly states they have tried there utmost to move this club forward STF will have sacraficed a large part of his wealth for this club.

We need to have HSL stand up and get more exposure , get their message out about ownership.

I for one will be putting my support and money behind them.

[Hibbyradge]

I trust Leeann Dempster much more than I trust people who publish childish insults and images about the custodians of our club and continually refuse to answer reasonable questions.

Whey ask questions of the board and they get an inconvenient answer, they simply say it's a lie.

When I was a Trade Union rep, part of my job was to negotiate with national management on various issues and try to get agreements which would protect or benefit the membership. When I presented the proposed deals to the NEC, invariably the hard left (SWP/Militant/Socialist Caucus etc) would argue that, regardless that we would have written agreements, we couldn't trust management so we should reject the deal and "go to war". What nonsense.

Funny I should be reminded of that when I consider what's currently happening at Hibs.

I think HoH and BH had convinced their egos that they would eventually own Hibs, and they are now spewing that this unrealistic and deluded possibility has now formally gone.

Like a difficult bairn who has been refused a toy, they are now having a tantrum and lashing out at everyone and everything.

The ironic thing is that although both groups claim to have resources to buy a substantial part of Hibs, and that it is their stated intention to do so, my small purchase next month will mean I'll own more than they will.

[greenginger]

Hibbyr., agree with your post 100%

A bit like the HoH guy I had a run in with a couple of months ago who claimed Hibs did not own Eastmains Training Centre.

When I produced a copy of the Title Deeds, noting Hibernian F C as owners that I got from the Land Registry, rather than accept the deeds as proof , his response was...

" Ye kin pit any ********thing you like doon on paper ! "

[CallumLaidlaw]

Hibbyr., agree with your post 100%

A bit like the HoH guy I had a run in with a couple of months ago who claimed Hibs did not own Eastmains Training Centre.

When I produced a copy of the Title Deeds, noting Hibernian F C as owners that I got from the Land Registry, rather than accept the deeds as proof , his response was...

" Ye kin pit any ********thing you like doon on paper ! "

:faf::faf: Brilliant

[greensoul]

I was one of the people who bought shares and had them gifted back when Tom Farmer saved the club.I have the choice of buying new shares direct and/or investing in HSL and I am intending to do both.Having worked in Financial Services for over 35 years I think I can get my head round the proposed structure and the possible risks but still feel taking part will benefit the club I have supported for over 50 years.
I think the initial post was well thought through and asks many of the questions of the naysayers.What worries me is that a lot of people who see the criticism of the proposals will think there is no smoke without fire and that will stop them from taking part.
If you were a cynic you would think the critics have an agenda but to me they seem to have different agendas and I'm not sure I understand any of them.

[Cammy]

Matty, I couldn't agree more with what you've said here. It's not rocket science as far as I can see. These groups have never spoken for me, and never will. As for Mike Reilly, he's never shared the same view as me going on his statements.

This really disappoints me. Mike Reilly is supposed to represent supporters but most of the time, when I see him being interviewed or quotes are attributed to him, it is more like his own personal statements and beliefs. I am sure he works very hard for the Hibs Supporters Association, however some of his statements over the last couple of years are questionable and unhelpful. :confused:

[ShadesLongThrow]

Great OP and the most clear and concise explanation for this whole sorry saga I have read. It firmly puts these 2 ridiculous groups firmly back in their box.

It was Einstein who said "Great ideas often receive violent opposition from mediocre minds". Spot on Albert!

[Hibbyradge]

Hibbyr., agree with your post 100%

A bit like the HoH guy I had a run in with a couple of months ago who claimed Hibs did not own Eastmains Training Centre.

When I produced a copy of the Title Deeds, noting Hibernian F C as owners that I got from the Land Registry, rather than accept the deeds as proof , his response was...

" Ye kin pit any ********thing you like doon on paper ! "

Ownership deniers!

[grunt]

Take a look at this!

http://www.hibernianfc.co.uk/news/5132

[CropleyWasGod]

Take a look at this!

http://www.hibernianfc.co.uk/news/5132

And there was much clamping across the land.....

That's superb news, although tempered by the fact that the costs of servicing the debt will not be sigificantly less than what we have been paying.

[Onion]

Well put and some very decent points made.

Unfortunately, IMO there's a fundamental issue at the core all this negativity that can't be overcome be mere words or even reasoned argument - a deep-rooted LACK OF TRUST in Hibs, and in particular Petrie and STF. When trust is lost it's only rebuild through consistent, predictable action and reaffirmation over time, not by argument or words. So everything Hibs, LD, Petrie and STF say and do is coming under the strictest scrutiny. Things which might normally be taken as read, are being questioned in minute detail and with heavy dose of scepticism. Some might not like that, but it's a problem of Hibs own making and only Hibs can address the problem.

I've been hugely impressed with LD and her statement this week was a great summary of the progress we've made. But for many it will take much much more to rebuild the faith they've lost in this Hibs Board.

[grunt]

And there was much clamping across the land.....

That's superb news, although tempered by the fact that the costs of servicing the debt will not be sigificantly less than what we have been paying.
You don't seem to be taking into account the two payments in 2018 and 2020 which we no longer need to find the money for. As an accountant, couldn't you work out the net present value of the two cashflows?

[Blaster]

And there was much clamping across the land.....

That's superb news, although tempered by the fact that the costs of servicing the debt will not be sigificantly less than what we have been paying.

I assume we would also be paying some sort of debt repayment to the holding company previously too?

[CropleyWasGod]

You don't seem to be taking into account the two payments in 2018 and 2020 which we no longer need to find the money for. As an accountant, couldn't you work out the net present value of the two cashflows?

I'm just looking at the actual cash flow, which is the most important thing in terms of the way we operate.

[emerald green]

:top marksI wonder if the media would give as much exposure to what the OP has set out in this excellent post, and the practically universal support and approval given on this thread to what he has said? I wonder if there is any way that could be done?

I doubt it, because it seems the media like nothing better than to publish negative and/or controversial stuff about what's supposedly happening at this club. It sells papers I suppose.

Some so-called Hibs supporters, and groups, really need to stop and think, and get their brain in gear first, before opening their mouths and potentially damaging the club. But then again, if they have some sort of hidden agenda, maybe they just don't care about that?

PS: Debt free by club's 150th anniversary I just read. I wonder if the media will be all over this story? Will someone, somewhere, find a way to put a negative spin on this too?

[CropleyWasGod]

I assume we would also be paying some sort of debt repayment to the holding company previously too?

Over the past couple of years, the debt to the holding company actually went up. In other words, they gave us money.

[grunt]

I'm just looking at the actual cash flow, which is the most important thing in terms of the way we operate.
Well, true, but now think about the cash flow in 2018.

[Winston Ingram]

A great post Matty and I really hope Simon Pia or Mike Reilly take up your challenge to argue their case.

Like you though, I'm not sure they will.

I questioned Pia on Twitter about the posters and his response... 'Tory Boy':aok:

[grunt]

Over the past couple of years, the debt to the holding company actually went up. In other words, they gave us money.And I would expect them to continue to do so, if we needed it.
However I rather think the club is hoping that the cash from the sale of shares will provide for any future funding gap.

[lucky]

I actually think Hibs.net should do a press release on this how they welcome the options being put forward by Hibernian. It's time for the silent majority to be heard

[CropleyWasGod]

Well, true, but now think about the cash flow in 2018.

Yeah. But. Lining Rod's pocket. But.... etc etc.

[Just Alf]

Over the past couple of years, the debt to the holding company actually went up. In other words, they gave us money.

this is why i don't deal in numbers! :thumbsup:

I was thinking that, for the balloon payments and the previous debt to the holding company we would need to be either putting money aside to cover it (or when it's due, not spend on stuff so we can cover it) and now we don't have to do that.... that must have some sort of value?

[AndyM_1875]

I questioned Pia on Twitter about the posters and his response... 'Tory Boy':aok:

He is such a silly auld fool.

[CropleyWasGod]

this is why i don't deal in numbers! :thumbsup:

I was thinking that, for the balloon payments and the previous debt to the holding company we would need to be either putting money aside to cover it (or when it's due, not spend on stuff so we can cover it) and now we don't have to do that.... that must have some sort of value?

We didn't put money aside. We couldn't afford to.

What we did in the past was deal with it when it came up. Either renegotiate or find a Fltecher. Neither of these are needed now :)

[grunt]

I was thinking that, for the balloon payments and the previous debt to the holding company we would need to be either putting money aside to cover it (or when it's due, not spend on stuff so we can cover it) and now we don't have to do that.... that must have some sort of value?You are absolutely right. The club has dealt with the requirement to make significant repayments on the debt in 3 and 5 years time, removing those requirements.

[emerald green]

I questioned Pia on Twitter about the posters and his response... 'Tory Boy':aok:

What sort of response is that meant to be FFS? :rolleyes:

[Hibbyradge]

Take a look at this!

http://www.hibernianfc.co.uk/news/5132

Lies!

[bigwheel]

The last couple of days has seen an increase in noise and activity from BuyHibs and Hands On Hibs, prompting yesterday's statement from Leeann Dempster to attempt to set the record straight a little.

I'm happy that people want to challenge the information being given, and happy that people are prepared to ask questions about the proposition which has seen Hibs offer up new shares to give fans the opportunity to own a majority 51% of the football club.

I'm less happy about the way that questioning has been conducted. Accusations of a 'shakedown' and thinly-veiled accusations that Sir Tom Farmer, Rod Petrie, and Leeann Dempster have somehow misled or lied to the fans about the re-structuring of debt are, IMHO, unfounded, unhelpful, and dangerous to the chances of supporters getting a genuine say in the club.

Mike Reilly's statement today tells me that some people are listening and taking heed of the allegations from HoH and BuyHibs, and his advice to Hibs fans was to not participate in the scheme.

I find it astonishing that the Chairman of the HSA would make a statement like that. I found it more astonishing that people are taking the BuyHibs and HoH stance as the one that's not mis-leading.

IMHO, Hands On Hibs and BuyHibs' allegations are founded on nothing more than assumptions and supposition. They have, as far as I can see, yet to put forward any tangible and telling evidence or argument to back up their claims.

Even a very basic sense check on their claims shows more holes than an industrial sized sieve.

Let's look at them - starting with the shakedown claim. So let's say Sir Tom Farmer and Rod Petrie have sat down together and thought about how they can shaft the fans for more money at their gain.

What's their starting point? Well, they're starting with essentially full ownership of the football club between them. They own the club pretty much lock, stock and barrel.

Petrie, for a while (I'm not sure if it's still the case) didn't take a salary from Hibs. Probably one of the easiest ways to get money out of the football club and into his pocket. He didn't do it. Too obvious maybe? Maybe he took a massive dividend over the years. Nope?

What about Sir Tom Farmer, the multi-millionaire, where's he standing to make money from Hibs? Why would he be motivated to do so - has he fallen on hard times, has he set himself the challenge on making money from owning a football club where every other owner has failed?

How much are they pocketing from the share issue? Not a bean. Really? These are the guys that are shaking us down!

What about the debt though? That has to be repaid, surely? Of course, and who does that money go back to - the people that provided it? That's quite a radge way to shake folk down. I'll give you a tenner, then you can give me it back at terms favourable to you. What a cunning cad I am!!

The debt stands to be repaid at a set amount over a set period of time as far as I'm aware - the same as most borrowing is repaid. Shakedown? Doesn't look like it.

If we (Hibs) are repaying it at £1k a month, and our income is £10k a month, then that other £9k can go on other things, notably the football side of the business.

The thing is though, that £1k is getting spent on the debt, that's part of borrowing money - you have to repay it at some point.

The share issue will give extra revenue. So instead of operating on the £10k a month that I used as example, let's say we operate on £20k a month - we still spend £1k on debt, that was the agreement. The rest is available as extra cash for the football operation. Shakedown? I don't see it.

This claim that there is no HSL representation on the board doesn't stand up either - for a start Leeann Dempster is named on the board of HSL, and runs the football club. Providing the share issue is fully subscribed, the support - as majority shareholders - can put who they want on to the board.

So if Hibs supporters become the majority shareholders, and STF and RP no longer own the club lock, stock, and barrel, what have they gained from this? What's the shakedown?

They're not getting a penny of the new share money. Their own ownership and shares are being diluted - they're giving stuff up, not gaining from it.

The only winners in this are the football club who make some money, and the support - who can own the club we love.

Shakedown? It's a ridiculous notion and doesn't stand up to any scrutiny. We're not lining anyone's pockets if we take up shares. We're putting money into the football club. To be spent on improving the side.

The money's not going on infrastructure, debt, or to existing shareholders.

It's not rocket science.

Where's the shakedown.

If Hands on Hibs or BuyHibs or Simon Pia, Mike Reilly, or anyone else labelling this as a shakedown can come on and explain, in detail and with evidence that is more than supposition and accusations, then I'm all ears.

I genuinely can't see that happening though, because like their bull**** claims that Hibs were somehow going to syphon off the stadium and training centre, their shakedown claims are bollocks, and I'll continue to think that way until they can show otherwise.

You might have guessed by the tone of this post (and congratulations if you made it this far) that I am entirely pissed off with the sabotaging of our football club by people who claim to have it's best interests at heart. I'd welcome it and shake them by the hand if they could back up their claims and they end up preventing some Scooby-doo-esque
plot involving Old Man Petrie who, at the end of it all as he's being carted away for some heinous fraud charges, mutters "I would have got away with it if it wasn't for you pesky kids!", but the chances of that happening are about the same as me ending tonight baw-deep in Scarlett Johannsen.


If HoH, Buy Hibs or Pia etc had any sense of integrity - they would read this, hold their hand up and agree....the best post in a decade. That you MattyF

[ancient hibee]

Excellent post.

[Mikey]

I actually think Hibs.net should do a press release on this how they welcome the options being put forward by Hibernian. It's time for the silent majority to be heard

No need. The silent majority will buy up the shares and have a say in the running of our club.

[Pretty Boy]

I questioned Pia on Twitter about the posters and his response... 'Tory Boy':aok:

Classic response of a champagne socialist imo.

[marinello59]

Classic response of a champagne socialist imo.

Spot on.

[Brightside]

I questioned Pia on Twitter about the posters and his response... 'Tory Boy':aok:

Is he the father of the female footballer?

[McD]

Matty, Quite simply :applause::not worth:thumbsup::top marks

an incredibly succinct , sensible, logical and conspiracy-busting OP.

We we await anyone from BH or HOH to reply (preferably with a coherent thought, although I won't hold my breath. It's noticeable that no one from those camps have said anything).

[kaimendhibs]

Superb post!

[Saturday Boy]

Excellent post and when read with the statements from the club, show up these "fans groups" for what they are.

Is it presumptious to suggest something on the club shirt to commerorate Matty's post? :wink:

[BroxburnHibee]

I'm assuming Kano is already on his way to Dumfries given his disappearance today.

Or could it be the statements today have zipped him right up!!!!!!

[NYHibby]

I'm assuming Kano is already on his way to Dumfries given his disappearance today.

Or could it be the statements today have zipped him right up!!!!!!

He is probably just too busy being interviewed by Sky Sports to find the time to post...

[BroxburnHibee]

Callum Kane @callum_kane · 49m 49 minutes ago
Another hour another statement. Someone's getting worried. We need complete transparency on the road to community ownership. Fight goes on!

"Someone's getting worried" :hilarious

I think we all know who :tee hee:

[bigwheel]

Callum Kane @callum_kane · 49m 49 minutes ago
Another hour another statement. Someone's getting worried. We need complete transparency on the road to community ownership. Fight goes on!

Ah Kano....now complaining about too much clarity........some fight that must be! People Front of Hibernian lives on..... :)

[blackpoolhibs]

Callum Kane @callum_kane · 49m 49 minutes ago
Another hour another statement. Someone's getting worried. We need complete transparency on the road to community ownership. Fight goes on!

I'm that bored with their bulls hit i'm fighting sleep.

[DaveF]

Callum Kane @callum_kane · 49m 49 minutes ago
Another hour another statement. Someone's getting worried. We need complete transparency on the road to community ownership. Fight goes on!

What's really tiresome is a chat (or whatever you call it on twitter) between Kane and someone called JGardiner

https://twitter.com/JimGardiner2/status/558710315110924288

Are they really trying to draw battle lines between sites over this? Is that what it's come to? How sad.

[Pete]

Callum Kane @callum_kane · 49m 49 minutes ago
Another hour another statement. Someone's getting worried. We need complete transparency on the road to community ownership. Fight goes on!

Please just stop it.

There are still one or two people saying the same things on Facebook etc...but people are starting to ask why HOH are still "fighting".

One by one the questions are being answered and the ones still being asked are largely irrelevant.

The tap is being slowly turned off and it's not just this site that is seeing the light.

[Pretty Boy]

What's really tiresome is a chat (or whatever you call it on twitter) between Kane and someone called JGardiner

https://twitter.com/JimGardiner2/status/558710315110924288

Are they really trying to draw battle lines between sites over this? Is that what it's come to? How sad.

:faf: Beyond parody.

I see from conversations on Twitter that this last week has just been the 'warm up' from HoH so that's something to look forward to.

[marinello59]

Callum Kane @callum_kane · 49m 49 minutes ago
Another hour another statement. Someone's getting worried. We need complete transparency on the road to community ownership. Fight goes on!

So they want answers and when they get them they aren't pleased. Wow.
Is this guy 'our' Kano. Given the contempt he holds for this place I guess he won't be back.

[Boris]

What's really tiresome is a chat (or whatever you call it on twitter) between Kane and someone called JGardiner

https://twitter.com/JimGardiner2/status/558710315110924288

Are they really trying to draw battle lines between sites over this? Is that what it's come to? How sad.

I'm Jim Gardiner. Post on hear now & again. Post On Bounce now & again. Use the handle Boris simply cos its a nickname I've been landed with for many years & which many Hibbies will know me by. Couldn't care less if folk know who I am or not but if you're going to post names trust your admins will be happy to do it for everybody.......

There is a split in opinion - its you thats called it a battle line - between a lot of the followers of both sites. Stevie Wonder could spot that. Seems to me that netters far more likely to toe the board line. Bouncers more questioning. as I've already indicated I don't think of myself as a netter or a bouncer. Maybe its an age thing. I get the impression that a lot of the netters are of the youger internet generation for want of a better term. I know a lot of the regular bounce posters personally - lot of them older lads that I've known since the early 1970's. They've been there, seen it, done it.

There is a clear split in the Hibs Support over this whole Rod Petrie/Farmer/Board/Shares issue. That distresses me. Divided & conquered. I've lost track of the different groups. What I'd give for a man with the stature of the late Kenny McLean senior to come forward now.

Just to be clear. I am not a member of HoH or any other group. I've never met the other lad you mentioned as being in the twitter conversation (Callum Kane) but I find his comments on Hibs & other issues interesting & sometimes funny. The only group I am a member of is the Stanton Branch of the HSA. I used to organise their buses when I first moved back north from Liverpool where I'd lived & worked for many years. I'm not even anti-Rod but I think he's had his day. I was the treasurer of the Hibs Historical Trust in the early years & attended many meetings with Rod. He was quietly supportive & let us get on with things & he was absolutely brilliant with his assistance when we financed & organised the restoration of Canon Hannan's memorial stone in the Grange cemetery.

I am a Hibs shareholder but I just don't get this HSL scheme & my suspicions aren't helped with the information coming out of the club in dribs & drabs as a reaction. Maybe all will become clear at the AGM.

If you've got a problem with all that then speak to me at QoS tomorrow - my picture is on twitter after all.......

[Hibbyradge]

I am a Hibs shareholder but I just don't get this HSL scheme & my suspicions aren't helped with the information coming out of the club in dribs & drabs as a reaction.

I know who you are. :thumbsup:

What are your suspicions?

[Benny Brazil]

I'm Jim Gardiner. Post on hear now & again. Post On Bounce now & again. Use the handle Boris simply cos its a nickname I've been landed with for many years & which many Hibbies will know me by. Couldn't care less if folk know who I am or not but if you're going to post names trust your admins will be happy to do it for everybody.......

There is a split in opinion - its you thats called it a battle line - between a lot of the followers of both sites. Stevie Wonder could spot that. Seems to me that netters far more likely to toe the board line. Bouncers more questioning. as I've already indicated I don't think of myself as a netter or a bouncer. Maybe its an age thing. I get the impression that a lot of the netters are of the youger internet generation for want of a better term. I know a lot of the regular bounce posters personally - lot of them older lads that I've known since the early 1970's. They've been there, seen it, done it.

There is a clear split in the Hibs Support over this whole Rod Petrie/Farmer/Board/Shares issue. That distresses me. Divided & conquered. I've lost track of the different groups. What I'd give for a man with the stature of the late Kenny McLean senior to come forward now.

Just to be clear. I am not a member of HoH or any other group. I've never met the other lad you mentioned as being in the twitter conversation (Callum Kane) but I find his comments on Hibs & other issues interesting & sometimes funny. The only group I am a member of is the Stanton Branch of the HSA. I used to organise their buses when I first moved back north from Liverpool where I'd lived & worked for many years. I'm not even anti-Rod but I think he's had his day. I was the treasurer of the Hibs Historical Trust in the early years & attended many meetings with Rod. He was quietly supportive & let us get on with things & he was absolutely brilliant with his assistance when we financed & organised the restoration of Canon Hannan's memorial stone in the Grange cemetery.

I am a Hibs shareholder but I just don't get this HSL scheme & my suspicions aren't helped with the information coming out of the club in dribs & drabs as a reaction. Maybe all will become clear at the AGM.

If you've got a problem with all that then speak to me at QoS tomorrow - my picture is on twitter after all.......

First things first - your comment "toe the party line" is complete crap - this is a very diverse forum and a wide range of views are put forward I have never felt the need to toe any line - I would say most of us are intelligent enough to make up our own minds - and secondly a lot of posters on here have also "been there, seen it and done it" as well.

[matty_f]

I'm Jim Gardiner. Post on hear now & again. Post On Bounce now & again. Use the handle Boris simply cos its a nickname I've been landed with for many years & which many Hibbies will know me by. Couldn't care less if folk know who I am or not but if you're going to post names trust your admins will be happy to do it for everybody.......

There is a split in opinion - its you thats called it a battle line - between a lot of the followers of both sites. Stevie Wonder could spot that. Seems to me that netters far more likely to toe the board line. Bouncers more questioning. as I've already indicated I don't think of myself as a netter or a bouncer. Maybe its an age thing. I get the impression that a lot of the netters are of the youger internet generation for want of a better term. I know a lot of the regular bounce posters personally - lot of them older lads that I've known since the early 1970's. They've been there, seen it, done it.

There is a clear split in the Hibs Support over this whole Rod Petrie/Farmer/Board/Shares issue. That distresses me. Divided & conquered. I've lost track of the different groups. What I'd give for a man with the stature of the late Kenny McLean senior to come forward now.

Just to be clear. I am not a member of HoH or any other group. I've never met the other lad you mentioned as being in the twitter conversation (Callum Kane) but I find his comments on Hibs & other issues interesting & sometimes funny. The only group I am a member of is the Stanton Branch of the HSA. I used to organise their buses when I first moved back north from Liverpool where I'd lived & worked for many years. I'm not even anti-Rod but I think he's had his day. I was the treasurer of the Hibs Historical Trust in the early years & attended many meetings with Rod. He was quietly supportive & let us get on with things & he was absolutely brilliant with his assistance when we financed & organised the restoration of Canon Hannan's memorial stone in the Grange cemetery.

I am a Hibs shareholder but I just don't get this HSL scheme & my suspicions aren't helped with the information coming out of the club in dribs & drabs as a reaction. Maybe all will become clear at the AGM.

If you've got a problem with all that then speak to me at QoS tomorrow - my picture is on twitter after all.......

If you consider the users on here to be keyboard warriors and fuds, why bother visiting the site?

[Boris]

I know who you are. :thumbsup:

What are your suspicions?

Maybe misgivings would have been a better term for me to use: I just don't get how Leeann Dempster can be on HSL & the Club Board/I can't reconcile the reorganised debt with previous financial statements/I can't see why Kenny McAskill involved to name but three. I trust that all will become clear at AGM but I ain't holding my breath.

[kaimendhibs]

I'm 51, prefer .net and believe in Hibs and Leann and HSL

[DaveF]

I'm Jim Gardiner. Post on hear now & again. Post On Bounce now & again. Use the handle Boris simply cos its a nickname I've been landed with for many years & which many Hibbies will know me by. Couldn't care less if folk know who I am or not but if you're going to post names trust your admins will be happy to do it for everybody.......

There is a split in opinion - its you thats called it a battle line - between a lot of the followers of both sites. Stevie Wonder could spot that. Seems to me that netters far more likely to toe the board line. Bouncers more questioning. as I've already indicated I don't think of myself as a netter or a bouncer. Maybe its an age thing. I get the impression that a lot of the netters are of the youger internet generation for want of a better term. I know a lot of the regular bounce posters personally - lot of them older lads that I've known since the early 1970's. They've been there, seen it, done it.

There is a clear split in the Hibs Support over this whole Rod Petrie/Farmer/Board/Shares issue. That distresses me. Divided & conquered. I've lost track of the different groups. What I'd give for a man with the stature of the late Kenny McLean senior to come forward now.

Just to be clear. I am not a member of HoH or any other group. I've never met the other lad you mentioned as being in the twitter conversation (Callum Kane) but I find his comments on Hibs & other issues interesting & sometimes funny. The only group I am a member of is the Stanton Branch of the HSA. I used to organise their buses when I first moved back north from Liverpool where I'd lived & worked for many years. I'm not even anti-Rod but I think he's had his day. I was the treasurer of the Hibs Historical Trust in the early years & attended many meetings with Rod. He was quietly supportive & let us get on with things & he was absolutely brilliant with his assistance when we financed & organised the restoration of Canon Hannan's memorial stone in the Grange cemetery.

I am a Hibs shareholder but I just don't get this HSL scheme & my suspicions aren't helped with the information coming out of the club in dribs & drabs as a reaction. Maybe all will become clear at the AGM.

If you've got a problem with all that then speak to me at QoS tomorrow - my picture is on twitter after all.......

I lifted your name from Twitter - It's freely available over there, so not sure what your point is?

The bit in bold has been trotted out since the Bounce started and Stu Crowther roamed these parts. It wore thin years ago but hey, you still seem to believe it.

Is this your post on twitter?

"Nae chance-I only go on it to see u wyndin them up! Lads that talk sense like wee Dudge, Big G, Mark S, Bomber, etc on Bounce"

[jacomo]

If you consider the users on here to be keyboard warriors and fuds, why bother visiting the site?

Wow. Unless you've got previous, how do you get there from his post?

His comments seemed reasonable to me. Yours seem needlessly aggressive. IMO.

[skipster7]

I'm Jim Gardiner. Post on hear now & again. Post On Bounce now & again. Use the handle Boris simply cos its a nickname I've been landed with for many years & which many Hibbies will know me by. Couldn't care less if folk know who I am or not but if you're going to post names trust your admins will be happy to do it for everybody.......

There is a split in opinion - its you thats called it a battle line - between a lot of the followers of both sites. Stevie Wonder could spot that. Seems to me that netters far more likely to toe the board line. Bouncers more questioning. as I've already indicated I don't think of myself as a netter or a bouncer. Maybe its an age thing. I get the impression that a lot of the netters are of the youger internet generation for want of a better term. I know a lot of the regular bounce posters personally - lot of them older lads that I've known since the early 1970's. They've been there, seen it, done it.

There is a clear split in the Hibs Support over this whole Rod Petrie/Farmer/Board/Shares issue. That distresses me. Divided & conquered. I've lost track of the different groups. What I'd give for a man with the stature of the late Kenny McLean senior to come forward now.

Just to be clear. I am not a member of HoH or any other group. I've never met the other lad you mentioned as being in the twitter conversation (Callum Kane) but I find his comments on Hibs & other issues interesting & sometimes funny. The only group I am a member of is the Stanton Branch of the HSA. I used to organise their buses when I first moved back north from Liverpool where I'd lived & worked for many years. I'm not even anti-Rod but I think he's had his day. I was the treasurer of the Hibs Historical Trust in the early years & attended many meetings with Rod. He was quietly supportive & let us get on with things & he was absolutely brilliant with his assistance when we financed & organised the restoration of Canon Hannan's memorial stone in the Grange cemetery.

I am a Hibs shareholder but I just don't get this HSL scheme & my suspicions aren't helped with the information coming out of the club in dribs & drabs as a reaction. Maybe all will become clear at the AGM.

If you've got a problem with all that then speak to me at QoS tomorrow - my picture is on twitter after all.......
Somebody else saying if you've got a problem then speak face to face at the QOTS game lol . Should be fun ;-)

[Boris]

If you consider the users on here to be keyboard warriors and fuds, why bother visiting the site?

Not all fall into that category but if the cap fits. John Campbell talks sense so worth reading! But one of the reasons I rarely post on EITHER board is cos it just ends up in arguments going round in circles. Like this will as all the cronies line up to give their heroes 10/10 etc. Bottom line - in my opinion - is that there's a better, more balanced discussion on the Bounce.

[matty_f]

Wow. Unless you've got previous, how do you get there from his post?

His comments seemed reasonable to me. Yours seem needlessly aggressive. IMO.

It's from the Twitter post.

[Boris]

Somebody else saying if you've got a problem then speak face to face at the QOTS game lol . Should be fun ;-)

See that's what I mean about keyboard warriors, When I said speak I meant exactly that for sake it wasn't a coded challenge to a square go. I despair. Have a word wi yirsel.

[DaveF]

See that's what I mean about keyboard warriors, When I said speak I meant exactly that for sake it wasn't a coded challenge to a square go. I despair. Have a word wi yirsel.

I'll put my knuckle dusters away again :greengrin and let you get back to the big boys debate over the road.

[FranckSuzy]

See that's what I mean about keyboard warriors, When I said speak I meant exactly that for sake it wasn't a coded challenge to a square go. I despair. Have a word wi yirsel.

I think the poster was referring to a guy who earlier said folk could speak to him at the QoTS game if they had a problem :greengrin

[Bostonhibby]

I'm Jim Gardiner. Post on hear now & again. Post On Bounce now & again. Use the handle Boris simply cos its a nickname I've been landed with for many years & which many Hibbies will know me by. Couldn't care less if folk know who I am or not but if you're going to post names trust your admins will be happy to do it for everybody.......

There is a split in opinion - its you thats called it a battle line - between a lot of the followers of both sites. Stevie Wonder could spot that. Seems to me that netters far more likely to toe the board line. Bouncers more questioning. as I've already indicated I don't think of myself as a netter or a bouncer. Maybe its an age thing. I get the impression that a lot of the netters are of the youger internet generation for want of a better term. I know a lot of the regular bounce posters personally - lot of them older lads that I've known since the early 1970's. They've been there, seen it, done it.

There is a clear split in the Hibs Support over this whole Rod Petrie/Farmer/Board/Shares issue. That distresses me. Divided & conquered. I've lost track of the different groups. What I'd give for a man with the stature of the late Kenny McLean senior to come forward now.

Just to be clear. I am not a member of HoH or any other group. I've never met the other lad you mentioned as being in the twitter conversation (Callum Kane) but I find his comments on Hibs & other issues interesting & sometimes funny. The only group I am a member of is the Stanton Branch of the HSA. I used to organise their buses when I first moved back north from Liverpool where I'd lived & worked for many years. I'm not even anti-Rod but I think he's had his day. I was the treasurer of the Hibs Historical Trust in the early years & attended many meetings with Rod. He was quietly supportive & let us get on with things & he was absolutely brilliant with his assistance when we financed & organised the restoration of Canon Hannan's memorial stone in the Grange cemetery.

I am a Hibs shareholder but I just don't get this HSL scheme & my suspicions aren't helped with the information coming out of the club in dribs & drabs as a reaction. Maybe all will become clear at the AGM.

If you've got a problem with all that then speak to me at QoS tomorrow - my picture is on twitter after all.......

Good on you for approaching it this way Boris, I am an avid reader of the bounce and know quite a few Hibbies with differing views and styles for airing them - I don't agree with you about .netters vis a vis bouncers.

I think there has to remain some uncertainty about change that is associated with what the club is trying to do, in some minds because it is change and not what they individually want, there's a leap to be taken and in my view its moving more towards what the club is now trying to do as being the right thing - on reflection I am thinking that what "divides" us / the fan base is nowhere near as great or important as what unites us.

The AGM could indeed be the last step along the way, I hope so, in my experience it won't be difficult for anyone who wants to to see an obstacle and polarise on it but in the absence of a popular alternative maybe its time to jump on the current bandwagon to see where it takes us? the momentum is more behind that than any other proposal, or god forbid doing nothing. Older heids might see it as the latest Hibs rollercoaster?

I remain a Petrie out man, but as a person who has spent his working life doing assessments on risk associated with deals / proposals and punting most of them I can't really see a massive downside to the current proposal for the club when compared to where it is now, and as time has gone by I haven't seen anything else I could sign up to- I do wish I could have acquired the whole shooting match for myself based on the Low model though :greengrin

GGTTH

[marinello59]

Not all fall into that category but if the cap fits. John Campbell talks sense so worth reading! But one of the reasons I rarely post on EITHER board is cos it just ends up in arguments going round in circles. Like this will as all the cronies line up to give their heroes 10/10 etc. Bottom line - in my opinion - is that there's a better, more balanced discussion on the Bounce.

Nowt wrong with preferring one site over the other. We'll happily accept criticism if it's reasonable. What we won't encourage is discussions about the merits of one Hibs fans website over another. Can we avoid that happening here please. Post on the one you feel comfortable with, no need for conflict is there?

[Boris]

I'll put my knuckle dusters away again :greengrin and let you get back to the big boys debate over the road.

Big boys don't need knuckle dusters.

[DaveF]

Big boys don't need knuckle dusters.

I'm only wee though. Adios amigo, this chat has run it's course.

[skipster7]

See that's what I mean about keyboard warriors, When I said speak I meant exactly that for fox sake it wasn't a coded challenge to a square go. I despair. Have a word wi yirsel.

No m8, the last couple of days I've read from a couple of posters that don't seem to agree with what Hibs are doing that if anyone has a problem with their view then they could speak face to face at a game. Your own words. Care to elaborate about your suspicions ? btw I've been going to games since the late 70s and rarely post but can't believe some of the things that have been banded about the last few days from Hibs fans, things you would expect from pubescent jambos

[Hiber-nation]

Good on you for approaching it this way Boris, I am an avid reader of the bounce and know quite a few Hibbies with differing views and styles for airing them - I don't agree with you about .netters vis a vis bouncers.

I think there has to remain some uncertainty about change that is associated with what the club is trying to do, in some minds because it is change and not what they individually want, there's a leap to be taken and in my view its moving more towards what the club is now trying to do as being the right thing - on reflection I am thinking that what "divides" us / the fan base is nowhere near as great or important as what unites us.

The AGM could indeed be the last step along the way, I hope so, in my experience it won't be difficult for anyone who wants to to see an obstacle and polarise on it but in the absence of a popular alternative maybe its time to jump on the current bandwagon to see where it takes us? the momentum is more behind that than any other proposal, or god forbid doing nothing. Older heids might see it as the latest Hibs rollercoaster?

I remain a Petrie out man, but as a person who has spent his working life doing assessments on risk associated with deals / proposals and punting most of them I can't really see a massive downside to the current proposal for the club when compared to where it is now, and as time has gone by I haven't seen anything else I could sign up to- I do wish I could have acquired the whole shooting match for myself based on the Low model though :greengrin

GGTTH

Ah, a breath of common sense amidst all this bloody stupid bickering.

[Baldy Foghorn]

Maybe it's like the boy who cried wolf?

Hibs have been guilty of being "economical with the truth", in the past, so maybe people are wary about accepting the latest proposition....

Playing devil's advocate, maybe this information could have been put into the public domain quicker, as it seems like a case of fighting fire with fire. I feel genuinely sorry for LD, as the negativity is a combination of year's of mis-management prior to her tenure.

[Boris]

Good on you for approaching it this way Boris, I am an avid reader of the bounce and know quite a few Hibbies with differing views and styles for airing them - I don't agree with you about .netters vis a vis bouncers.

I think there has to remain some uncertainty about change that is associated with what the club is trying to do, in some minds because it is change and not what they individually want, there's a leap to be taken and in my view its moving more towards what the club is now trying to do as being the right thing - on reflection I am thinking that what "divides" us / the fan base is nowhere near as great or important as what unites us.

The AGM could indeed be the last step along the way, I hope so, in my experience it won't be difficult for anyone who wants to to see an obstacle and polarise on it but in the absence of a popular alternative maybe its time to jump on the current bandwagon to see where it takes us? the momentum is more behind that than any other proposal, or god forbid doing nothing. Older heids might see it as the latest Hibs rollercoaster?

I remain a Petrie out man, but as a person who has spent his working life doing assessments on risk associated with deals / proposals and punting most of them I can't really see a massive downside to the current proposal for the club when compared to where it is now, and as time has gone by I haven't seen anything else I could sign up to- I do wish I could have acquired the whole shooting match for myself based on the Low model though :greengrin

GGTTH

There you are - said there was something word reading on .net now & again......................

[Boris]

Maybe it's like the boy who cried wolf?

Hibs have been guilty of being "economical with the truth", in the past, so maybe people are wary about accepting the latest proposition....

Playing devil's advocate, maybe this information could have been put into the public domain quicker, as it seems like a case of fighting fire with fire. I feel genuinely sorry for LD, as the negativity is a combination of year's of mis-management prior to her tenure.

See you, you're a typical keyboard warrior faceless wonder fud whoever you are - want a face to face the morns ya fanny?

[Bostonhibby]

Maybe it's like the boy who cried wolf?

Hibs have been guilty of being "economical with the truth", in the past, so maybe people are wary about accepting the latest proposition....

Playing devil's advocate, maybe this information could have been put into the public domain quicker, as it seems like a case of fighting fire with fire. I feel genuinely sorry for LD, as the negativity is a combination of year's of mis-management prior to her tenure.

:agree: But judging her on her own merits going forward I think she is doing well, especially bearing in mind she probably has to have one eye on the Chairman, for the time being at least. I think she has been a cracking appointment.

[Baldy Foghorn]

See you, you're a typical keyboard warrior faceless wonder fud whoever you are - want a face to face the morns ya fanny?

Only if you bring the sweeties:na na:

[matty_f]

This went a bit off topic, eh? :greengrin

[DaveF]

Maybe it's like the boy who cried wolf?

Hibs have been guilty of being "economical with the truth", in the past, so maybe people are wary about accepting the latest proposition....

Playing devil's advocate, maybe this information could have been put into the public domain quicker, as it seems like a case of fighting fire with fire. I feel genuinely sorry for LD, as the negativity is a combination of year's of mis-management prior to her tenure.

I don't think anyone can under estimate the amount of cynicism within the Hibs support to any proposal coming from the board after the years of failure we have put up with. But when does the cynicism begin to be replaced with genuine hope and a chance to grasp control of the club - what the vast majority want? The answers have been put out there and more should be clear at the AGM. It just seems to me that far from sitting on the fence and looking at the proposal cautiously, some out there are actively looking for ways to derail it.

[Baldy Foghorn]

:agree: But judging her on her own merits going forward I think she is doing well, especially bearing in mind she probably has to have one eye on the Chairman, for the time being at least. I think she has been a cracking appointment.

Without a doubt :agree:

[FranckSuzy]

See you, you're a typical keyboard warrior faceless wonder fud whoever you are - want a face to face the morns ya fanny?

Watch him, he'll draw things on your coat with chalk :agree: :faf:

[Bostonhibby]

There you are - said there was something word reading on .net now & again......................

:na na:

[Baldy Foghorn]

I don't think anyone can under estimate the amount of cynicism within the Hibs support to any proposal coming from the board after the years of failure we have put up with. But when does the cynicism begin to be replaced with genuine hope and a chance to grasp control of the club - what the vast majority want? The answers have been put out there and more should be clear at the AGM. It just seems to me that far from sitting on the fence and looking at the proposal cautiously, some out there are actively looking for ways to derail it.

Yes, sadly some will never believe what the Club says.....Me, I am cautiously hopeful, and look forward to hearing more at AGM

[DaveF]

There you are - said there was something word reading on .net now & again......................

Let's face it - It's never going to be one of your posts is it? :offski:

[Baldy Foghorn]

Watch him, he'll draw things on your coat with chalk :agree: :faf:

I don't carry a case of chalk around Suzy, you were unfortunately standing next to the blackboard:rolleyes::greengrin

[Boris]

Let's face it - It's never going to be one of your posts is it? :offski:

Where as I'm sure there'll be a wee nugget somewhere in your near 25000 posts. I mean if you spout enough pish then sooner or later you might just stumble across something of interest.................

.

[DaveF]

Where as I'm sure there'll be a wee nugget somewhere in your near 25000 posts. I mean if you spout enough pish then sooner or later you might just stumble across something of interest.................

.

Nah, probably not, but feel free to have a look if you have a spare month :aok:

You just can't keep away eh? Last night it was kano, tonight, it's you. I wonder who we'll get tomorrow :greengrin

[Pretty Boy]

Nah, probably not, but feel free to have a look if you have a spare month :aok:

You just can't keep away eh? Last night it was kano, tonight, it's you. I wonder who we'll get tomorrow :greengrin

Maybe if all the people who enjoy the balanced debate on the bounce spent less time trying to wind us up on here it would be a bit busier......

[FranckSuzy]

I don't carry a case of chalk around Suzy, you were unfortunately standing next to the blackboard:rolleyes::greengrin

Just like your school reports, "must do better". :tee hee:

[CropleyWasGod]

Maybe misgivings would have been a better term for me to use: I just don't get how Leeann Dempster can be on HSL & the Club Board/I can't reconcile the reorganised debt with previous financial statements/I can't see why Kenny McAskill involved to name but three. I trust that all will become clear at AGM but I ain't holding my breath.
I can take you through the reconciliation of the debt with the financial statements if you like.

[blackpoolhibs]

I know who you are. :thumbsup:


That's interesting Dave, if you know Boris maybe you could have a chat with him about Dublin?

[Mikey09]

Big boys don't need knuckle dusters.


Oh dear.... :rolleyes:

[Mikey09]

See you, you're a typical keyboard warrior faceless wonder fud whoever you are - want a face to face the morns ya fanny?


Oh dear..... :take that

[Mikey09]

I'm Jim Gardiner. Post on hear now & again. Post On Bounce now & again. Use the handle Boris simply cos its a nickname I've been landed with for many years & which many Hibbies will know me by. Couldn't care less if folk know who I am or not but if you're going to post names trust your admins will be happy to do it for everybody.......

There is a split in opinion - its you thats called it a battle line - between a lot of the followers of both sites. Stevie Wonder could spot that. Seems to me that netters far more likely to toe the board line. Bouncers more questioning. as I've already indicated I don't think of myself as a netter or a bouncer. Maybe its an age thing. I get the impression that a lot of the netters are of the youger internet generation for want of a better term. I know a lot of the regular bounce posters personally - lot of them older lads that I've known since the early 1970's. They've been there, seen it, done it.

There is a clear split in the Hibs Support over this whole Rod Petrie/Farmer/Board/Shares issue. That distresses me. Divided & conquered. I've lost track of the different groups. What I'd give for a man with the stature of the late Kenny McLean senior to come forward now.

Just to be clear. I am not a member of HoH or any other group. I've never met the other lad you mentioned as being in the twitter conversation (Callum Kane) but I find his comments on Hibs & other issues interesting & sometimes funny. The only group I am a member of is the Stanton Branch of the HSA. I used to organise their buses when I first moved back north from Liverpool where I'd lived & worked for many years. I'm not even anti-Rod but I think he's had his day. I was the treasurer of the Hibs Historical Trust in the early years & attended many meetings with Rod. He was quietly supportive & let us get on with things & he was absolutely brilliant with his assistance when we financed & organised the restoration of Canon Hannan's memorial stone in the Grange cemetery.

I am a Hibs shareholder but I just don't get this HSL scheme & my suspicions aren't helped with the information coming out of the club in dribs & drabs as a reaction. Maybe all will become clear at the AGM.

If you've got a problem with all that then speak to me at QoS tomorrow - my picture is on twitter after all.......


You are totally entitled to your opinion..... However, with those pathetic posts I replied to above you have lost any respect and credibility entirely.

[Pete]

You are totally entitled to your opinion..... However, with those pathetic posts I replied to above you have lost any respect and credibility entirely.

I think he was only joking with these posts.

Mind you, he probably thinks you are one of the faceless keyboard warriors or #fuds who use this site so I wouldn't bother reconsidering your position.

[BroxburnHibee]

Oh dear..... :take that

I suspect Boris & Baldy know each other - hence the tongue in cheek comment.

[Pete]

I've read these these Twitter exchanges with HOH people and the people in favour of the scheme and I hear the HOH side tell people that they are armed with the facts and suggest that we might think differently should we do the same.

Well if they are withholding information that might help me come to a decision regarding this offer then I dont think it's very fair. Wouldn't they strengthen their position by revealing these facts now...or are they just waiting on the right time?

I'm not speaking as an agent, a lakey or someone who works for David Forsyth. I'm a hibs fan who wants all the information available so I can make an informed, rational decision. I'm open to persuasion.

Time is running out for you personally as the HSL and the IFA route look equally attractive and the board are countering all the arguments against buying shares.

No more riddles...can anyone who supports HOH and is against the share scheme reveal these facts and stop me from signing up?

[Ozyhibby]

I've read these these Twitter exchanges with HOH people and the people in favour of the scheme and I hear the HOH side tell people that they are armed with the facts and suggest that we might think differently should we do the same.

Well if they are withholding information that might help me come to a decision regarding this offer then I dont think it's very fair. Wouldn't they strengthen their position by revealing these facts now...or are they just waiting on the right time?

I'm not speaking as an agent, a lakey or someone who works for David Forsyth. I'm a hibs fan who wants all the information available so I can make an informed, rational decision. I'm open to persuasion.

Time is running out for you personally as the HSL and the IFA route look equally attractive and the board are countering all the arguments against buying shares.

No more riddles...can anyone who supports HOH and is against the share scheme reveal these facts and stop me from signing up?

Forsyth is another one we should get shot of the minute we get to 51%

[Just Alf]

I've read these these Twitter exchanges with HOH people and the people in favour of the scheme and I hear the HOH side tell people that they are armed with the facts and suggest that we might think differently should we do the same.

Well if they are withholding information that might help me come to a decision regarding this offer then I dont think it's very fair. Wouldn't they strengthen their position by revealing these facts now...or are they just waiting on the right time?

I'm not speaking as an agent, a lakey or someone who works for David Forsyth. I'm a hibs fan who wants all the information available so I can make an informed, rational decision. I'm open to persuasion.

Time is running out for you personally as the HSL and the IFA route look equally attractive and the board are countering all the arguments against buying shares.

No more riddles...can anyone who supports HOH and is against the share scheme reveal these facts and stop me from signing up?

PD, this is where I get all confused.... If HoH really have such info why not share it? Surely that would in turn bring more people on board with them giving them a stronger voice and coming from a recognisable position (issue wise) ? :confused:

[McD]

PD, this is where I get all confused.... If HoH really have such info why not share it? Surely that would in turn bring more people on board with them giving them a stronger voice and coming from a recognisable position (issue wise) ? :confused:


It probably would JA, but they've been getting asked these questions for weeks now, particularly the last week or so as they've upped the ante with the smear campaign, and there's been nothing forthcoming. They go on about complete transparency, yet can't answer a single question put to them.

all piss and wind, no substance.

[Baldy Foghorn]

I suspect Boris & Baldy know each other - hence the tongue in cheek comment.

We do indeed, amazing how such things can be misconstrued :wink:

[Boris]

I suspect Boris & Baldy know each other - hence the tongue in cheek comment.


Well spotted Broxburn. Baldyfoghorn is indeed a very good mate of mine & I usually organise the trip for us when Hibs play abroad whether on pre-season or in European competition. It was just a wee bit of humour to lighten up the debate but some folk take things too literally.

[BroxburnHibee]

Well spotted Broxburn. Baldyfoghorn is indeed a very good mate of mine & I usually organise the trip for us when Hibs play abroad whether on pre-season or in European competition. It was just a wee bit of humour to lighten up the debate but some folk take things too literally.

It's not easy to see irony in the written word :greengrin

[ACLeith]

It probably would JA, but they've been getting asked these questions for weeks now, particularly the last week or so as they've upped the ante with the smear campaign, and there's been nothing forthcoming. They go on about complete transparency, yet can't answer a single question put to them.

all piss and wind, no substance.

If their tactics are to wait until the AGM to release the "smoking gun" then their failure to answer the straightest of straight questions might be justified, to attract the biggest impact. But if the AGM produces at most a damp squib, then all will also be revealed about HOH.

Not long to wait .......

[Boris]

It's not easy to see irony in the written word :greengrin

True that. But I did deliberately make the post so way over the top that nobody would be daft enough to take it seriously but no accounting for folk. Bet they would have spotted the irony straight away on the Bounce....................... :greengrin

[DaveF]

If their tactics are to wait until the AGM to release the "smoking gun" then their failure to answer the straightest of straight questions might be justified, to attract the biggest impact. But if the AGM produces at most a damp squib, then all will also be revealed about HOH.

Not long to wait .......

Indeed, we will soon see. My money though, is that they are full of wind and pish.

[CropleyWasGod]

True that. But I did deliberately make the post so way over the top that nobody would be daft enough to take it seriously but no accounting for folk. Bet they would have spotted the irony straight away on the Bounce....................... :greengrin
Back on thread.

The accounts. ....

[DaveF]

Maybe misgivings would have been a better term for me to use: I just don't get how Leeann Dempster can be on HSL & the Club Board/I can't reconcile the reorganised debt with previous financial statements/I can't see why Kenny McAskill involved to name but three. I trust that all will become clear at AGM but I ain't holding my breath.

Just out of interest, were you a backer of BuyHibs? Did you have any misgivings about them? If so, what were \ are they?

[Boris]

Just out of interest, were you a backer of BuyHibs? Did you have any misgivings about them? If so, what were \ are they?

Just a quick reply cos I'm setting out for game shortly. Not a backer - as I said earlier I'm not involved with any group - but I could see where they were coming from & their plans had some merit but I'm sure they would agree still needed working on. One of their organisers - Brian Penman - is a good friend of mine & while he can be a bit headstrong at times his honesty & integrity are in my opinion beyond question & he has no hidden agendas against Petrie or Farmer or anyone else. What he was/is doing was purely for the benefit of the club. I didn't commit to their plan but I think I might well have in due course but again, as I've said earlier, I wanted to see what the club came out with either at the AGM or before.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

Only if you bring the sweeties:na na:

There'll be none left by the time he gets to Dumfries! ;-)

[Hibbyradge]

True that. But I did deliberately make the post so way over the top that nobody would be daft enough to take it seriously but no accounting for folk. Bet they would have spotted the irony straight away on the Bounce....................... :greengrin

Most of us on here saw the joke.

Mikey is just a bit slow.

(That's just a joke, Mikey.)

Irony.

[John_the_angus_hibby]

The last couple of days has seen an increase in noise and activity from BuyHibs and Hands On Hibs, prompting yesterday's statement from Leeann Dempster to attempt to set the record straight a little.

I'm happy that people want to challenge the information being given, and happy that people are prepared to ask questions about the proposition which has seen Hibs offer up new shares to give fans the opportunity to own a majority 51% of the football club.

I'm less happy about the way that questioning has been conducted. Accusations of a 'shakedown' and thinly-veiled accusations that Sir Tom Farmer, Rod Petrie, and Leeann Dempster have somehow misled or lied to the fans about the re-structuring of debt are, IMHO, unfounded, unhelpful, and dangerous to the chances of supporters getting a genuine say in the club.

Mike Reilly's statement today tells me that some people are listening and taking heed of the allegations from HoH and BuyHibs, and his advice to Hibs fans was to not participate in the scheme.

I find it astonishing that the Chairman of the HSA would make a statement like that. I found it more astonishing that people are taking the BuyHibs and HoH stance as the one that's not mis-leading.

IMHO, Hands On Hibs and BuyHibs' allegations are founded on nothing more than assumptions and supposition. They have, as far as I can see, yet to put forward any tangible and telling evidence or argument to back up their claims.

Even a very basic sense check on their claims shows more holes than an industrial sized sieve.

Let's look at them - starting with the shakedown claim. So let's say Sir Tom Farmer and Rod Petrie have sat down together and thought about how they can shaft the fans for more money at their gain.

What's their starting point? Well, they're starting with essentially full ownership of the football club between them. They own the club pretty much lock, stock and barrel.

Petrie, for a while (I'm not sure if it's still the case) didn't take a salary from Hibs. Probably one of the easiest ways to get money out of the football club and into his pocket. He didn't do it. Too obvious maybe? Maybe he took a massive dividend over the years. Nope?

What about Sir Tom Farmer, the multi-millionaire, where's he standing to make money from Hibs? Why would he be motivated to do so - has he fallen on hard times, has he set himself the challenge on making money from owning a football club where every other owner has failed?

How much are they pocketing from the share issue? Not a bean. Really? These are the guys that are shaking us down!

What about the debt though? That has to be repaid, surely? Of course, and who does that money go back to - the people that provided it? That's quite a radge way to shake folk down. I'll give you a tenner, then you can give me it back at terms favourable to you. What a cunning cad I am!!

The debt stands to be repaid at a set amount over a set period of time as far as I'm aware - the same as most borrowing is repaid. Shakedown? Doesn't look like it.

If we (Hibs) are repaying it at £1k a month, and our income is £10k a month, then that other £9k can go on other things, notably the football side of the business.

The thing is though, that £1k is getting spent on the debt, that's part of borrowing money - you have to repay it at some point.

The share issue will give extra revenue. So instead of operating on the £10k a month that I used as example, let's say we operate on £20k a month - we still spend £1k on debt, that was the agreement. The rest is available as extra cash for the football operation. Shakedown? I don't see it.

This claim that there is no HSL representation on the board doesn't stand up either - for a start Leeann Dempster is named on the board of HSL, and runs the football club. Providing the share issue is fully subscribed, the support - as majority shareholders - can put who they want on to the board.

So if Hibs supporters become the majority shareholders, and STF and RP no longer own the club lock, stock, and barrel, what have they gained from this? What's the shakedown?

They're not getting a penny of the new share money. Their own ownership and shares are being diluted - they're giving stuff up, not gaining from it.

The only winners in this are the football club who make some money, and the support - who can own the club we love.

Shakedown? It's a ridiculous notion and doesn't stand up to any scrutiny. We're not lining anyone's pockets if we take up shares. We're putting money into the football club. To be spent on improving the side.

The money's not going on infrastructure, debt, or to existing shareholders.

It's not rocket science.

Where's the shakedown.

If Hands on Hibs or BuyHibs or Simon Pia, Mike Reilly, or anyone else labelling this as a shakedown can come on and explain, in detail and with evidence that is more than supposition and accusations, then I'm all ears.

I genuinely can't see that happening though, because like their bull**** claims that Hibs were somehow going to syphon off the stadium and training centre, their shakedown claims are bollocks, and I'll continue to think that way until they can show otherwise.

You might have guessed by the tone of this post (and congratulations if you made it this far) that I am entirely pissed off with the sabotaging of our football club by people who claim to have it's best interests at heart. I'd welcome it and shake them by the hand if they could back up their claims and they end up preventing some Scooby-doo-esque
plot involving Old Man Petrie who, at the end of it all as he's being carted away for some heinous fraud charges, mutters "I would have got away with it if it wasn't for you pesky kids!", but the chances of that happening are about the same as me ending tonight baw-deep in Scarlett Johannsen.

Can we not just fire this Reilly fella? He is an embarrassment of huge proportions. Self important gimp.


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[HUTCHYHIBBY]

Can we not just not fire this Reilly fella?

Why do you not want to fire him? ;-)

[John_the_angus_hibby]

Why do you not want to fire him? ;-)

Bugger, iFat fingers!!


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[NAE NOOKIE]

Very good OP by Matty.

I was very interested in the 'Buy Hibs' approach in the beginning, but as far as I can see the new proposals from the club have pretty effectively spiked their guns. As for HoH ...... I just didn't ( and still don't ) get them.

There is nothing wrong with asking questions and holding those who have taken us down a rocky road over the last few years to account. But as things stand the club IMO have started to take real and tangible steps to address our problems on and off the park and I for one am excited by the 51% fan ownership model being proposed and fail to see any ulterior motives at work in it. I've got to say the appointment of Leeann Dempster is beginning to look like one of the smartest moves the club has made in decades.

In the grand scheme of things we are a lower to middle sized European club in a small country whose football league system is run by people who at times border on the incompetent. We are not in a position to have our support divided against itself and I sincerely wish that the various groups in this matter would put their differences aside to work together on a proposal which seems to me to be giving them and most other fans what they were asking for in the first place. Or is it going to end up the case that personal pride and egos have become more important than the good of Hibs.

As for the likes of Mike Riley ......... Is this guy just a loose cannon or are his views representative of the HSA as a whole. If they are not I would suggest that the good folk who are members of the HSA tell him to either run his comments by them first or step down.

[Ozyhibby]

There is nothing to stop BuyHibs carrying on with their scheme.
They now know the price and around half the debt has been written off as was their plan.
They can keep advertising their scheme and signing up members if they wish and start buying shares in the same way HSL are.