Who are you likely to support regarding club ownership?

[CropleyWasGod]

Its great news for this year but if we post a loss having had the gain then am sure you can see figure out the impact for the following year.

The plus 1m for this current year would be -250k for next.......thats a huge movement to handle......

the 250 comes from

500k loan repayment and parachute payment of 250 to be clear.
1. The loan holiday is not for a full year.

2. It has no effect on profit.

[grunt]

Its clearly good news as the club is better off to the tune of 1m this year....without it....we would be 1m more negative in the accountsMore "negative in the accounts". Right. Glad we got that cleared up. And you wonder why STF turned down your offer to buy Hibs?

[Baldy Foghorn]

This is going to be good, can't believe I have no popcorn in the house:rolleyes:

[marinello59]

This is going to be good, can't believe I have no popcorn in the house:rolleyes:

:greengrin

[grunt]

I mentioned the working capital amount of 1.5.......What made you mention summer though ?

Am in mood to answer questionsAnd with this post you have, for the third time of asking, failed to answer the question about why we need the £1.5m working capital! I am beginning to think either a) someone has stolen your login and is trying to make you look foolish, or b).

[Global Hibby]

Sorry for going slightly off topic here.

GH - maybe I am doing you a disservice here so apologies if thats the case - however the only threads I think I've ever seen you post on are ones to do with the financial side of the club - nothing to do with how the team are playing or any transfer targets etc. You posted a bit last year and then disappeared. Now your back and posting about the HSL / financial issues - maybe it is just the cynic in me but I get a feeling with your posts there is some underlying reason for you posting these questions - maybe you are just looking for a positive debate on the clubs finances - but it feels to me like you are fishing for something.
We are all Hibs fans at the end of the day and we all want the best for our club and debate about the club is obviously what this forum is for - I am just not convinced that debate is what you are looking for here.

Again my apologies if I have picked up the wrong end of the stick and am reading more into your posts than what is there.

No apology needed Benny......in terms of other postings........the only transfer posting i could comment on was to do with LG last transfer window........ I was involved in underwriting the transfer and clearly it did not happen. The club were not funding that transfer !

i posted comments about if we had 1.9m to spend on first team squad....how would it be used........its substantially less now today was another post that comes to mind.

Will be even less again next year......

If i was wanting personal attention as some have said on here to massage my ego.....i would have accepted the interviews from TV and Journalists over the last few months.

I dont care if its HSL or Buy Hibs or individuals who invest in share offering.....there is no agenda there at all !!

[Caversham Green]

Its great news for this year but if we post a loss having had the gain then am sure you can see figure out the impact for the following year.

The plus 1m for this current year would be -250k for next.......thats a huge movement to handle......

the 250 comes from

500k loan repayment and parachute payment of 250 to be clear.

So post #205 was intended to make us all feel happy about this great news?

As CWG says, the loan repayments have no effect on profit and is nor for the full year anyway so your £1m figure seems spurious.

As I understand it, the £500k parachute payment becomes £250k next year (in the unlikely event that we are not promoted) so in reality £500k becomes £250k - both positive. That could be easily swallowed up by a good cup run.

Still interested in your views on the underwriting issue.

[Saturday Boy]

The more I read on here, the more I think some of the take over bids have been straight out of the Nigerian prince needing your bank details to release funds type of "offers".

And what are these "unanswered questions" we keep hearing about. Unasked questions more like. The world has gone mad, I tell you.:agree:

[Global Hibby]

And with this post you have, for the third time of asking, failed to answer the question about why we need the £1.5m working capital! I am beginning to think either a) someone has stolen your login and is trying to make you look foolish, or b).

Working capital peaks in the summer due to

season ticket money not being fully available.
deferred income needs protecting.
Cash is needed at a certain point in time to,enable the accounts to look better...check out cash balance.

answer your questions and why did you mention summer and not Xmas as an example as I never mentioned summer ?

[grunt]

answer your questions and why did you mention summer and not Xmas as an example as I never mentioned summer ?Take a wee look at your post, which I have now quoted twice. Your attention to detail is somewhat lacking.

[grunt]

Working capital peaks in the summer due to

season ticket money not being fully available.
deferred income needs protecting.
Cash is needed at a certain point in time to,enable the accounts to look better...check out cash balance.

answer your questions and why did you mention summer and not Xmas as an example as I never mentioned summer ?You are aware that the two items I've highlighted above are the same thing?
Although I'll admit, I don't know what you mean by "protecting" deferred income.

And cash is required to make "the accounts look better". Oh I see, well now you've explained it, what was I thinking?

[CropleyWasGod]

Working capital peaks in the summer due to

season ticket money not being fully available.
deferred income needs protecting.
Cash is needed at a certain point in time to,enable the accounts to look better...check out cash balance.

answer your questions and why did you mention summer and not Xmas as an example as I never mentioned summer ?
You did.

[Global Hibby]

I take your point with what you say but you have ignored the first and most important part of the question. It seems to me that it is only because of the interventions of our current owner that the club is attractive now to takeover bids. Do you accept that?

As i said to STF directly.........the only thing he was guilty of was not being a true owner manager...if he had been an owner manager then Hibs would not be where we are today !

We are not in a good space and have not been for many years now.

i do not share your view that Hibs is attractive to take over bids....If they were a deal would have happened.

[Global Hibby]

You are aware that the two items I've highlighted above are the same thing?
Although I'll admit, I don't know what you mean by "protecting" deferred income.

And cash is required to make "the accounts look better". Oh I see, well now you've explained it, what was I thinking?

Do explain why they are the same thing ??

[CropleyWasGod]

As i said to STF directly.........the only thing he was guilty of was not being a true owner manager...if he had been an owner manager then Hibs would not be where we are today !

We are not in a good space and have not been for many years now.

i do not share your view that Hibs is attractive to take over bids....If they were a deal would have happened.
It was attractive enough for David Low to make a bid.

[Barney McGrew]

I dont care if its HSL or Buy Hibs or individuals who invest in share offering.....there is no agenda there at all !!

It must just be complete coincidence then that after months of not hearing a peep from you that you appear again again a couple of days before HSL launches asking questions about Hibs finances.

[Baldy Foghorn]

It was attractive enough for David Low to make a bid.

Aye but he wanted it all for Brussel Sprout:agree:

[FranckSuzy]

As i said to STF directly.........the only thing he was guilty of was not being a true owner manager...if he had been an owner manager then Hibs would not be where we are today !

We are not in a good space and have not been for many years now.

i do not share your view that Hibs is attractive to take over bids....If they were a deal would have happened.

Only at the right price, surely?

[Global Hibby]

It was attractive enough for David Low to make a bid.
If you call an offer of Zero a bid thats your call....that means that HOH made a better bid as they offered a £1.00

stop being silly and contribute or go away

Why did you lie or mislead over Bruce Langham......says it all !

wont waste my time with you and go and join BPH

[CentreLine]

As i said to STF directly.........the only thing he was guilty of was not being a true owner manager...if he had been an owner manager then Hibs would not be where we are today !

We are not in a good space and have not been for many years now.

i do not share your view that Hibs is attractive to take over bids....If they were a deal would have happened.

I'm surprised to hear you say that. I can't argue with you because I have no background in finance but can you suggest any club in Scotland outwith the ugly sisters who have better facilities with only £5m debt ands plan to pay that off entirely in ten years?
From my amateur position it looks pretty attractive for a takeover.

[Global Hibby]

Only at the right price, surely?

At the right price is the key and do you think 5m is the right price plus the hidden costs of approx 2-3m ?

That is losses and working capital plus investment to add to the previous numbers is also needed !

that makes it a 10m investments over all to provide a sustainable platform.

Worth that amount ?

[CropleyWasGod]

If you call an offer of Zero a bid thats your call....that means that HOH made a better bid as they offered a £1.00

stop being silly and contribute or go away

Why did you lie or mislead over Bruce Langham......says it all !

wont waste my time with you and go and join BPH
I'm being silly?

I'm still waiting on an answer to my question about the debt repayment holiday contributing to profit. If one of my students came away with a statement like that, it would be thrown back at them, with a one-way ticket to Resit City.

And....show me where I lied about Bruce Langham.

[FranckSuzy]

At the right price is the key and do you think 5m is the right price plus the hidden costs of approx 2-3m ?

That is losses and working capital plus investment to add to the previous numbers is also needed !

that makes it a 10m investments over all to provide a sustainable platform.

Worth that amount ?

You tell me, since you're doing all the posturing.

[grunt]

* season ticket money not being fully available.
* deferred income needs protecting.



You are aware that the two items I've highlighted above are the same thing?



Do explain why they are the same thing ??I'll try to put this to you gently, but the deferred income which Hibs has in its accounts, is the money received in one financial year which relates to the following financial year, i.e. advance payments of season tickets. Hibs' year end is July, and so any season ticket money for the following season which has been received prior to the year end but is relating to the upcoming season, is shown in the balance sheet as deferred income. Deferred income and advance season ticket money is the same thing.

[Baldy Foghorn]

If you call an offer of Zero a bid thats your call....that means that HOH made a better bid as they offered a £1.00

stop being silly and contribute or go away

Why did you lie or mislead over Bruce Langham......says it all !

wont waste my time with you and go and join BPH

What's this about?

[Global Hibby]

I'm surprised to hear you say that. I can't argue with you because I have no background in finance but can you suggest any club in Scotland outwith the ugly sisters who have better facilities with only £5m debt ands plan to pay that off entirely in ten years?
From my amateur position it looks pretty attractive for a takeover.

If the 5m debt is paid off in ten years then that will be down to transfer fee income...it wont be down to share offering and profits.

The facilities are great !!

Even if Hibs sold 15000 season tickets the income from that would only be £3m.........

We sell half that amount at best !!

[Bostonhibby]

At the right price is the key and do you think 5m is the right price plus the hidden costs of approx 2-3m ?

That is losses and working capital plus investment to add to the previous numbers is also needed !

that makes it a 10m investments over all to provide a sustainable platform.

Worth that amount ?

There are many who have "business" heads and many who would say they don't who will be buying into this one because it feels right and as has often been said it's more of an investment of the heart than the head - not looking for a profit.

It's not really looking like one where you will get too many new bites on the cold business analysis - it's Hibs and peoples relationship with Hibs................It's like many things, worth what a buyer, or collective buyers will pay for it.

[Hermit Crab]

If the 5m debt is paid off in ten years then that will be down to transfer fee income...it wont be down to share offering and profits.

The facilities are great !!

Even if Hibs sold 15000 season tickets the income from that would only be £3m.........

We sell half that amount at best !!

Based on this season prices ? Promotion would mean a price increase no doubt?

[CentreLine]

If the 5m debt is paid off in ten years then that will be down to transfer fee income...it wont be down to share offering and profits.

The facilities are great !!

Even if Hibs sold 15000 season tickets the income from that would only be £3m.........

We sell half that amount at best !!

But turnover is 6m or thereabout. Out of that we will be paying half a million annually towards that debt. Something similar or perhaps marginally less than we were paying the bank but without the interest and two single payments. Why should it suddenly become a problem for us now.

[Global Hibby]

Based on this season prices ? Promotion would mean a price increase no doubt?

Probably but prices did not decrease when we got relegated.

stadium income is poor which is a big issue

[high bee]

From what I found the prize money was for last season was £816,500 for finishing 11th in the Premiership. Prize money for finishing 2nd in the Championship you would get £343,132 so the parachute payment is not extra money at all, it should simply compensate for the difference.

As for the repayment holiday, surely it is only 6 and a half months from mid January to August so effectively we have circa. £250k extra which is probably negated by less income from tv money, sponsorship etc.

May be completely wrong as I'm no financial expert but it seems we're debating a totally irrelevant point reference this extra income.

[Baldy Foghorn]

Probably but prices did not decrease when we got relegated.

stadium income is poor which is a big issue

Sure LD mentioned utilising the Stadium on non matchdays, to increase revenue streams

[Andy74]

If the 5m debt is paid off in ten years then that will be down to transfer fee income...it wont be down to share offering and profits.

The facilities are great !!

Even if Hibs sold 15000 season tickets the income from that would only be £3m.........

We sell half that amount at best !!

It will be paid as it is now from our income.

[Global Hibby]

It will be paid as it is now from our income.

So last year we made a 1.2m loss before tax........in the last four years we have made profit once which was around 300k.

So, when we have large losses again this year, then you think we can afford to pay 500k repayment......i dont agree thats affordable...sorry !!

Why do you disagree with my view that STF should put aside on a proper holiday repayment basis the 3m number he was owed previously until at least back to back annual profits have been made ?

this would reduce the repayments to 200k per annum !

we might be able to afford that with player budget cuts again !!

[Global Hibby]

I'll try to put this to you gently, but the deferred income which Hibs has in its accounts, is the money received in one financial year which relates to the following financial year, i.e. advance payments of season tickets. Hibs' year end is July, and so any season ticket money for the following season which has been received prior to the year end but is relating to the upcoming season, is shown in the balance sheet as deferred income. Deferred income and advance season ticket money is the same thing.

I suggest you pay closer attention to the accounts Sir !!!

I guess we dont need the 1.5m i mention then..... You should call RP and STF and let them know they dont need to put the money in anymore over the year !!!

[Baldy Foghorn]

So last year we made a 1.2m loss before tax........in the last four years we have made profit once which was around 300k.

So, when we have large losses again this year, then you think we can afford to pay 500k repayment......i dont agree thats affordable...sorry !!

Why do you disagree with my view that STF should put aside on a proper holiday repayment basis the 3m number he was owed previously until at least back to back annual profits have been made ?

this would reduce the repayments to 200k per annum !

we might be able to afford that with player budget cuts again !!

You are baffling me with your financial awareness

[Hermit Crab]

Sure LD mentioned utilising the Stadium on non matchdays, to increase revenue streams


You can definitely hire out the function suites for weddings party's etc. how much this brings in I'm not sure. Probably not a lot to be honest.

[Caversham Green]

I suggest you pay closer attention to the accounts Sir !!!

I guess we dont need the 1.5m i mention then..... You should call RP and STF and let them know they dont need to put the money in anymore over the year !!!

What Grunt says about the deferred income is absolutely correct.

[grunt]

I suggest you pay closer attention to the accounts Sir !!!

Are you seriously saying I'm wrong? Really?? Ok then Mr Shareholder with shares in 15 different global companies, pray explain in what way my post was wrong. You are unbelievable.

As a wee pointer for you, try looking up the definition of deferred income in the dictionary.

[marinello59]

You are baffling me with your financial awareness

I'm still trying to work out who mentioned summer.

[grunt]

What Grunt says about the deferred income is absolutely correct.Thanks CG. I'm finished with this charlatan.

[Caversham Green]

Thanks CG. I'm finished with this charlatan.

Me too - the Blackpool boy makes mores sense even when he's not trying to.

[blackpoolhibs]

I'm out celebrating, I have never been ignored by someone who's on so many boards of directors.

[Global Hibby]

I'm being silly?

I'm still waiting on an answer to my question about the debt repayment holiday contributing to profit. If one of my students came away with a statement like that, it would be thrown back at them, with a one-way ticket to Resit City.

And....show me where I lied about Bruce Langham.

Post 160 in response to founding directors of HSL..

there is no payment accrual for the current year if there is a holiday !!

I guess your students are not at tier one University or indeed maybe they study Yamonomics if you dont understand how not making a repayment this year will aid profits and cashflow etc

[grunt]

profits and cashflow You know these are different things, right?

[Baldy Foghorn]

I'm still trying to work out who mentioned summer.

Maybe someone was watching Grease, and started singing Summer loving:cb

[CropleyWasGod]

Post 160 in response to founding directors of HSL..

there is no payment accrual for the current year if there is a holiday !!

I guess your students are not at tier one University or indeed maybe they study Yamonomics if you dont understand how not making a repayment this year will aid profits and cashflow etc
1. I said that BL is not a director of HSL. That is not a lie.

2. I have no idea what you are referring to here.

3. You are the one who said "gains". Debt repayments , especially on a loan with no interest, have no effect on profits or gains. They do have an effect on Cash Flow, which you have just mentioned for the first time.
And, FYI, the students are prospective CAs.

[CropleyWasGod]

Maybe someone was watching Grease, and started singing Summer loving:cb
Tell me more.

[Baldy Foghorn]

Tell me more.

:greengrin:greengrin

[grunt]

Tell me more.

Brilliant.

[greenginger]

Post 160 in response to founding directors of HSL..

there is no payment accrual for the current year if there is a holiday !!

I guess your students are not at tier one University or indeed maybe they study Yamonomics if you dont understand how not making a repayment this year will aid profits and cashflow etc

Check post 160. Crops does not mention founding director, at the time of posting there was only one common director LD.

Crops post was correct , and calling him a liar was out of order.

[Pete]

For the dummies amongst us: Is there anything underhand being implied here?

I understand it all of course but my, erm, mate doesn't have a clue. :rolleyes:

[Global Hibby]

Check post 160. Crops does not mention founding director, at the time of posting there was only one common director LD.

Crops post was correct , and calling him a liar was out of order.

Play on words is what Crops should be teaching !!

seems you should join him and why dont you post the " complete " short message that say i called him liar !!

another player of words we have here

Bruce Langham was a founder director fact and Crops knew that !!

I asked re Founder director and then i then said I must have got my facts wrong by the way !!

So, lets see where i said he was a liar !!!

I said lying or misleading and its clear what he does on here !!

[Jack]

dropping down to personal comments like shinning white armour....just shows how limiting your ability is to debate !!

i am a shareholder in 15 companies across the globe.......i invested into those companies in real cash not loans. I believe my role as a role as shareholder is to make funds available at the appropriate time. Providing a loan to support losses is not what i call support and its fine you don't agree with that.

RP and STF are not trustees and nor are they managing any pension monies either, so no idea why that comes into your point.

I dont care about the trustees of your pension......... what i care about is Hibs having a sustainable financial model to enable AS and LD and their respective teams to provide the hibs support with a team that delivers success.

You know that if any of these 15 companies across the globe is a football club you will have to sell that share before you can 'invest' in Hibs ;-)

[Jack]

apology gratefully received :-)

My decision is all emotional though and legacy story telling......its not based on business viewpoint lol

I recall a poster named Jack saying that no outside bids will be considered fully until the path chosen by the owners is pursued......how correct he was and HOH wont be able to stop it either !!

My crystal balls are legendary lol.

[Mr White]

Play on words is what Crops should be teaching !!

seems you should join him and why dont you post the " complete " short message that say i called him liar !!

another player of words we have here

Bruce Langham was a founder director fact and Crops knew that !!

I asked re Founder director and then i then said I must have got my facts wrong by the way !!

So, lets see where i said he was a liar !!!

I said lying or misleading and its clear what he does on here !!

Did you used to post on here as HK hibby? I haven't seen so many exclamation marks since he was launched.

[Global Hibby]

My crystal balls are legendary lol.

I thought i might have been able to derail your fortune telling but failed.

Do you see another share issue that will dilute the new share owners in the future ?

Looks a certainty to me from my observational point Jack.

If i am less than 9% its not a problem re other football club is it not ?

;-)

[Global Hibby]

Did you used to post on here as HK hibby? I haven't seen so many exclamation marks since he was launched.

Last time I used that many was when Duff and Gray screwed up but came close on many other occasions over the last few years with Hibs !!!!!!

Was that enough !

;-)

[Global Hibby]

It will be paid as it is now from our income.

Great answer Andy 74.......

One year of profit since 2010 and a 1.2 million loss for last year just announced......a bank that recognises the debt is toxic.........

sure, we can afford it........you pay loans of with profits normally.

You are right on the money with that answer !!

So, what happens next.....

1. Personal slagging of me ?
2. Say nothing.
3. Share offer will,save the day.
4. Put forward a constructive counter view for debate.

[Benny Brazil]

Great answer Andy 74.......

One year of profit since 2010 and a 1.2 million loss for last year just announced......a bank that recognises the debt is toxic.........

sure, we can afford it........you pay loans of with profits normally.

You are right on the money with that answer !!

So, what happens next.....

1. Personal slagging of me ?
2. Say nothing.
3. Share offer will,save the day.
4. Put forward a constructive counter view for debate.


I dont get that - if we have a structured payment due each year - surely we budget for that and pay it out of our income?

[Global Hibby]

I dont get that - if we have a structured payment due each year - surely we budget for that and pay it out of our income?

Benny,

We do not have sufficient income to be able to afford the repayments.

We keep making losses and over borrow from ourselves to pay what we cant afford.

When one spends more that what they have....its not working to a budget.

we can not afford to pay 500k in loans......that is my point ....the loan repayment is one of the factors in making losses......we have made profit once since 2010.

[Jack]

I thought i might have been able to derail your fortune telling but failed.

Do you see another share issue that will dilute the new share owners in the future ?

Looks a certainty to me from my observational point Jack.

If i am less than 9% its not a problem re other football club is it not ?

;-)

On checking my balls it looks almost certain.

I don't really know how shares work I'm thinking shares can be issued upto the value of the company :dunno:

Without debt the club is worth £25m according to the accounts.

After this sale there will be £5m worth of shares out there.

To my simple way of thinking that leaves a potential £20m that could be raised before the individual shares lose value when shares are issued subsequent to that. It will be many, many years before anything like that will happen.

Anyway as we all know anyone 'investing' our club will/should be seeing it as an investment in our club rather than anything that will see a personal financial return, I'm cool with all that.

I think sevco and Sports Direct needed permission for that 9%, I'm not sure though, I thought I read it in the blurb I got from the club.

[matty_f]

Benny,

We do not have sufficient income to be able to afford the repayments.

We keep making losses and over borrow from ourselves to pay what we cant afford.

When one spends more that what they have....its not working to a budget.

we can not afford to pay 500k in loans......that is my point ....the loan repayment is one of the factors in making losses......we have made profit once since 2010.

Richard, have you considered the possibility (probability, even) that prior to agreeing a debt repayment plan with the holding company, that RP and LD would have been comfortable that the repayments would a) be affordable from running costs - as they've stated, and b) not present a risk to the financial health of the club?

Have you considered that the club may have suitably managed it's costs according to projected income to the degree that the repayments can be met within normal trading?

How likely do you consider a situation where STF, RP, and LD would insist on, or agree to, a loan repayment that is not affordable?

How likely do you consider a situation where the very same people would make public statements confirming that the loan would be repaid from normal trading and specifically not from the share issue, if that weren't actually the case?

[greenlex]

Benny,

We do not have sufficient income to be able to afford the repayments.

We keep making losses and over borrow from ourselves to pay what we cant afford.

When one spends more that what they have....its not working to a budget.

we can not afford to pay 500k in loans......that is my point ....the loan repayment is one of the factors in making losses......we have made profit once since 2010. We obviously have not been sticking to budget. I reckon a succession of failed management appointments and the constant churn of playing staff have contributed hugely to that. Moving forward with no STF back up we really need to be sticking to budget. We were told our budget is one of the best in Scottish football. That budget included financing debt. The new budget includes financing the 500k per year to pay these debts so should still be one of the best. The Board are obviously comfortable with this. I cant see a problem. Sticking to budgets is obviously key. Share issue money will help the playing side. Nothing to see here really. Im in.

[Benny Brazil]

Benny,

We do not have sufficient income to be able to afford the repayments.

We keep making losses and over borrow from ourselves to pay what we cant afford.

When one spends more that what they have....its not working to a budget.

we can not afford to pay 500k in loans......that is my point ....the loan repayment is one of the factors in making losses......we have made profit once since 2010.

GH - even though I may not be on the same Global level as you when it comes to business matters / understanding - even I am aware of that.

We can afford to pay the 500k annual payment with the income we have - what we need to do is to increase the income so we can then afford better players etc etc - do you not think that some of the losses over the last few years have been down in part to hiring and firing managers, bringing in crap players and then paying them off?

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

Great answer Andy 74.......

One year of profit since 2010 and a 1.2 million loss for last year just announced......a bank that recognises the debt is toxic.........

sure, we can afford it........you pay loans of with profits normally.

You are right on the money with that answer !!

So, what happens next.....

1. Personal slagging of me ?
2. Say nothing.
3. Share offer will,save the day.
4. Put forward a constructive counter view for debate.


I find reading your posts exhausting.

So, for me, and i'm sure the thousands of others who are not as well-versed in the world of international high finance as you clearly are, can you actually tell us what your point is (and I mean this is in the politest possible sense, but you seem to just get involved in a lot of arguments - i'm genuinely unclear the point you are trying to make?

What is the problem with the current plan?

What would you like to see done differently?

What can / will you personally do about it?

What in your view, should Hibs fans (en masse) do about it?

[Bostonhibby]

I find reading your posts exhausting.

So, for me, and i'm sure the thousands of others who are not as well-versed in the world of international high finance as you clearly are, can you actually tell us what your point is (and I mean this is in the politest possible sense, but you seem to just get involved in a lot of arguments - i'm genuinely unclear the point you are trying to make?

What is the problem with the current plan?

What would you like to see done differently?

What can / will you personally do about it?

What in your view, should Hibs fans (en masse) do about it?

Great attempt at nailing it down Southside :thumbsup:

It's a bit of a continuous loop unless as you say you are a follower of, and well versed in the particular version of "international high finance" you refer to.

[greenlex]

Great answer Andy 74.......

One year of profit since 2010 and a 1.2 million loss for last year just announced......a bank that recognises the debt is toxic.........

sure, we can afford it........you pay loans of with profits normally.

You are right on the money with that answer !!

So, what happens next.....

1. Personal slagging of me ?
2. Say nothing.
3. Share offer will,save the day.
4. Put forward a constructive counter view for debate.
If you have budgeted paying a loan from your running costs it's not from profit. It becomes part of your overheads surely. Therefore can never be profit. I'm no expert but it surely becomes part of your costs?

Any extra per month I save( profits). Any costs (mortgage or loans for example) get paid before I have any expendable income(again profits) it really is that simple. Business or personal it's not rocket surgery.

[Bostonhibby]

If you have budgeted paying a loan from your running costs it's not from profit. It becomes part of your overheads surely. Therefore can never be profit. I'm no expert but it surely becomes part of your costs?

Any extra per month I save( profits). Any costs (mortgage or loans for example) get paid before I have any expendable income(again profits) it really is that simple. Business or personal it's not rocket surgery.

International businessfolk ken wots going awn:wink:

[CropleyWasGod]

If you have budgeted paying a loan from your running costs it's not from profit. It becomes part of your overheads surely. Therefore can never be profit. I'm no expert but it surely becomes part of your costs?

Any extra per month I save( profits). Any costs (mortgage or loans for example) get paid before I have any expendable income(again profits) it really is that simple. Business or personal it's not rocket surgery.
In order to make the capital repayment, the club needs to make (assuming it's from a standing start) 500k profit.

[greenlex]

In order to make the capital repayment, the club needs to make (assuming it's from a standing start) 500k profit.

It may be the case from an accounting point if view crops. But it's like saying to pay a player 100k per year the coubneeds to make 100k of profit from a standing start. It's all part if the overheads standing start or not.

[CropleyWasGod]

It may be the case from an accounting point if view crops. But it's like saying to pay a player 100k per year the coubneeds to make 100k of profit from a standing start. It's all part if the overheads standing start or not.
From a cash point of view, you're right of course. It's money that needs to be found.

Having said that, as has been said often enough, no more than has been payable in the past.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

I find reading your posts exhausting.

So, for me, and i'm sure the thousands of others who are not as well-versed in the world of international high finance as you clearly are, can you actually tell us what your point is (and I mean this is in the politest possible sense, but you seem to just get involved in a lot of arguments - i'm genuinely unclear the point you are trying to make?

What is the problem with the current plan?

What would you like to see done differently?

What can / will you personally do about it?

What in your view, should Hibs fans (en masse) do about it?

Hello, Global Hibby?

Chance to state your case clearly, positively and without obfuscation. ..?

[Global Hibby]

Hello, Global Hibby?

Chance to state your case clearly, positively and without obfuscation. ..?

Happy to speak on the phone one to one if you would like my view.

Indeed i am happy to do that with anyone on here but posting on this subject matter is pointless as it is impossible to debate.

a debate is not about right or wrong.........there is no right or wrong decision......its just a simple choice.

Part of that is understanding the other sides view and on this site....i do not see that !!

I would at my expense set up a telephone conference bridge to allow more than just yourself to join a call.

I am a long standing Hibs Fan from Leith.....i want what is best for Hibs that is all. I should add that i have had close to 100 emails not on this site from well respected businessmen who are Hibs Fans understanding the points i have attempted to make.

Let me know Southsider

[Global Hibby]

Happy to speak on the phone one to one if you would like my view.

Indeed i am happy to do that with anyone on here but posting on this subject matter is pointless as it is impossible to debate.

a debate is not about right or wrong.........there is no right or wrong decision......its just a simple choice.

Part of that is understanding the other sides view and on this site....i do not see that !!

I would at my expense set up a telephone conference bridge to allow more than just yourself to join a call.

I am a long standing Hibs Fan from Leith.....i want what is best for Hibs that is all. I should add that i have had close to 100 emails not on this site from well respected businessmen who are Hibs Fans understanding the points i have attempted to make.

Let me know Southsider

To also join the call !!

Now, would that not be a very interesting call to participate in !!

[Andy74]

Happy to speak on the phone one to one if you would like my view.

Indeed i am happy to do that with anyone on here but posting on this subject matter is pointless as it is impossible to debate.

a debate is not about right or wrong.........there is no right or wrong decision......its just a simple choice.

Part of that is understanding the other sides view and on this site....i do not see that !!

I would at my expense set up a telephone conference bridge to allow more than just yourself to join a call.

I am a long standing Hibs Fan from Leith.....i want what is best for Hibs that is all. I should add that i have had close to 100 emails not on this site from well respected businessmen who are Hibs Fans understanding the points i have attempted to make.

Let me know Southsider

Or you could just answer the simple questions that were asked??

Just a suggestion.

[blackpoolhibs]

Happy to speak on the phone one to one if you would like my view.

Indeed i am happy to do that with anyone on here but posting on this subject matter is pointless as it is impossible to debate.

a debate is not about right or wrong.........there is no right or wrong decision......its just a simple choice.

Part of that is understanding the other sides view and on this site....i do not see that !!

I would at my expense set up a telephone conference bridge to allow more than just yourself to join a call.

I am a long standing Hibs Fan from Leith.....i want what is best for Hibs that is all. I should add that i have had close to 100 emails not on this site from well respected businessmen who are Hibs Fans understanding the points i have attempted to make.

Let me know Southsider


It makes no difference what you are where you come from or where you are going, you lost you will not be able to buy the club with the people YOU say were in it with you.

Now there is a way in, either through HSL or privately. The next move is yours, but any other way is not going to be entertained.

[CockneyRebel]

Benny,

We do not have sufficient income to be able to afford the repayments.

We keep making losses and over borrow from ourselves to pay what we cant afford.

When one spends more that what they have....its not working to a budget.

we can not afford to pay 500k in loans......that is my point ....the loan repayment is one of the factors in making losses......we have made profit once since 2010.

It has been reported in many articles and posts that Hibs paid the bank around £600k on average per year against the mortgage/loans. We will now be paying much less (£500k) as the debt is interest free. Now the budget each year (for 10 years) will include the new figure which will bring down expected outlay so our overheads will actually reduce. This re-financing is therefore beneficial to Hibs and we now have an end date for repayment of 10 years. If we can avoid paying off managers and their staff and bringing in new managers and their staff practically every year then Hibs would soon be back in the black.

[CropleyWasGod]

It has been reported in many articles and posts that Hibs paid the bank around £600k on average per year against the mortgage/loans. We will now be paying much less (£500k) as the debt is interest free. Now the budget each year (for 10 years) will include the new figure which will bring down expected outlay so our overheads will actually reduce. This re-financing is therefore beneficial to Hibs and we now have an end date for repayment of 10 years. If we can avoid paying off managers and their staff and bringing in new managers and their staff practically every year then Hibs would soon be back in the black.
The repayments, capital and interest, were 504k in the last accounts. According to RP, they averaged about 497k in recent years.

As you suggest, manageable.

[Bostonhibby]

It makes no difference what you are where you come from or where you are going, you lost you will not be able to buy the club with the people YOU say were in it with you.

Now there is a way in, either through HSL or privately. The next move is yours, but any other way is not going to be entertained.

:agree: Round and round it goes, I'm out :bye: