***** Are You An IFA? *****

[Mikey]

If you are an IFA and want to get involved in trying to make it as easy as possible for Hibs fans to buy shares in the club please drop me a PM.

Ta.

[Baldy Foghorn]

Well done Mikey:aok:

[gaz1875]

No idea why this is required if you only plan to take a minimum quantity, but I'm no finance expert...:confused:

[Jack]

If you are an IFA and want to get involved in trying to make it as easy as possible for Hibs fans to buy shares in the club please drop me a PM.

Ta.

I "understand" HSL will be doing this but don't quote me on it. I'll deny everything, delete this original post, and anyone quoting this post will spontaneously combust.

You have been warne ... aaaaaarrrrrrgggggghhhhh

[green day]

No idea why this is required if you only plan to take a minimum quantity, but I'm no finance expert...:confused:

Its new regulations.

My simplistic take -

It is only an issue if you want "the shares" yourself.

If (like most, I guess) you are happy to contribute toward the 51%, you can donate via HSL who are effectively "trustees" in this situation.

[gaz1875]

Its new regulations.

My simplistic take -

It is only an issue if you want "the shares" yourself.

If (like most, I guess) you are happy to contribute toward the 51%, you can donate via HSL who are effectively "trustees" in this situation.

Thanks, it just seems crazy I need a financial adviser to tell someone I can spare £200 or not...

[green day]

Thanks, it just seems crazy I need a financial adviser to tell someone I can spare £200 or not...

As someone stated, Hibs might well put something in place, as an IFA advice on this might cost almost as much as the shares!

[Mikey]

I "understand" HSL will be doing this but don't quote me on it. I'll deny everything, delete this original post, and anyone quoting this post will spontaneously combust.

You have been warne ... aaaaaarrrrrrgggggghhhhh

Well I've bounced it off two of the HSL directors and had no reply yet and I aint one for hanging around with things like this :greengrin

If it's confirmed then I'm happy to leave it to them, but in the meantime someone has to pick it up and run with it.

[Danderhall Hibs]

I know there's a change in regulation mentioned - does anyone have a link to the wording on the FCA website?

I'm still at a loss as to why an IFA is required.

[O'Rourke3]

I'm guessing because the shareholders end up owing any debt and Hibs don,'t want to be accused of miss selling. Either that is they've learned lessons in the Financial Industry after the Merricks model

[green day]

There are 3 options.

1 existing shareholders can buy shares
2 database members can buy shares, but need to take advice (hence IFA chat).
3 we can all just contribute (donation effectively) via HSL who buy shares on your behalf.

I don't think its that complex, to be honest. The complexity is in the language Hibs have to use due to how share sales are regulated.

[macca70]

Surely the adviser doesn't have to go through the full advice process as I would suspect his recommendation would be not to waste £200 buying shares in a football club 😜

It's Busy time of year for IFA's, can't see too many getting involved if this is going to be too time consuming or doing it for free.

[greenginger]

I want to buy shares for my grandson , he is not 18 months never mind 18 years old.

How will that work ?

[tamig]

I honestly don't know why folk wouldn't just put their cash in the HSL pot. I know there are some sceptics but unless you have ambitions and the cash to fully takeover the club I just don't know why anybody would be so desperate to get their hands on a bit of paper proving they owned a few hundred Hibs shares. I really don't get it.

[greenginger]

I see Hibs are being advised by NCM Fund Services Ltd.

http://www.ncmfundservices.com/index.html

Address 7 Melville Street , Edinburgh same address as the Yams Accountants , Johnston Carmichael. :confused:


Oops ! got that one wrong, they are in 7 Melville Crescent.

[Jazza]

No idea why this is required if you only plan to take a minimum quantity, but I'm no finance expert...:confused:

I am an IFA and it is for affordability

[greenginger]

I honestly don't know why folk wouldn't just put their cash in the HSL pot. I know there are some sceptics but unless you have ambitions and the cash to fully takeover the club I just don't know why anybody would be so desperate to get their hands on a bit of paper proving they owned a few hundred Hibs shares. I really don't get it.


The share certificate can be important, but more important is , you get a copy of the accounts and an invite to the AGM.

[Twiglet]

I am an IFA and it is for affordability

How much (approx) do you reckon it would cost for advice for something like this?

[gaz1875]

I am an IFA and it is for affordability

Thanks Jazza, I guess if it were for a sum of £200, the question would be "can you afford to loose £200...yes or no" but that's maybe too simple?

[madhibby]

Like other posters I am confused why there has to be any involvement of an IFA.

I am considering contributing to the fan ownership idea.

I do not currently have any shares in Hibs. I am a season ticket holder.

I would prefer to own the shares myself rather than Hibernian Supporters limited (HSL) holding the shares on my behalf.

I can afford to make a one off payment rather than go through the HSL with monthly payments.

I am thinking of investing £1000.

I will not be expecting a dividend and will not be expecting any increase in the value of the shares (i.e. I am not looking to sell them for a profit in the future). I can afford to lose £1000 even if I don’t want that to happen as it would suggest the Hibs have got into financial problems?!

But I have to meet with an IFA who will assess, according to Hibs, my financial capacity to afford the shares? So I have to provide personal financial information to the IFA that I would rather not disclose but will do so to enable me to buy the shares. And I will have to pay the IFA for the privilege of providing ther statement that I am suitable. Hopefully the charge is nominal as it just reduces money to the club via the share issue.

[monktonharp]

Like other posters I am confused why there has to be any involvement of an IFA.

I am considering contributing to the fan ownership idea.

I do not currently have any shares in Hibs. I am a season ticket holder.

I would prefer to own the shares myself rather than Hibernian Supporters limited (HSL) holding the shares on my behalf.

I can afford to make a one off payment rather than go through the HSL with monthly payments.

I am thinking of investing £1000.

I will not be expecting a dividend and will not be expecting any increase in the value of the shares (i.e. I am not looking to sell them for a profit in the future). I can afford to lose £1000 even if I don’t want that to happen as it would suggest the Hibs have got into financial problems?!

But I have to meet with an IFA who will assess, according to Hibs, my financial capacity to afford the shares? So I have to provide personal financial information to the IFA that I would rather not disclose but will do so to enable me to buy the shares. And I will have to pay the IFA for the privilege of providing ther statement that I am suitable. Hopefully the charge is nominal as it just reduces money to the club via the share issue. If, for example , I was in the same position and prepared to put up the same amount, would my accountant (if I had one) be able to be acknowledged as a said IFA, as long as he was a chartered accountant?

[madhibby]

If, for example , I was in the same position and prepared to put up the same amount, would my accountant (if I had one) be able to be acknowledged as a said IFA, as long as he was a chartered accountant?

I doubt it. I happen to be a Chartered accountant myself although a public sector one! My understanding is you have to sit some exam (and to be regulated by some Financial body) to be able to call yourself an IFA.

[Weststandwanab]

Thanks, it just seems crazy I need a financial adviser to tell someone I can spare £200 or not...

The nanny state again.


Surely the adviser doesn't have to go through the full advice process as I would suspect his recommendation would be not to waste £200 buying shares in a football club 

It's Busy time of year for IFA's, can't see too many getting involved if this is going to be too time consuming or doing it for free.

Spot on.


I want to buy shares for my grandson , he is not 18 months never mind 18 years old.

How will that work ?

He is not old enough to own shares in his own name so someone will have to hold them on his behalf


I am an IFA and it is for affordability

Can you sign my form please and, if you can, what will your signature and stamp cost ?


Thanks Jazza, I guess if it were for a sum of £200, the question would be "can you afford to loose £200...yes or no" but that's maybe too simple?

You can go and stick £200 with a bookies on Hibs to win and not need any advice but heaven forbid you ant o buy some shares !


If, for example , I was in the same position and prepared to put up the same amount, would my accountant (if I had one) be able to be acknowledged as a said IFA, as long as he was a chartered accountant?

No, unless they are regulated to sell financial products which some are,

[lord bunberry]

I honestly don't know why folk wouldn't just put their cash in the HSL pot. I know there are some sceptics but unless you have ambitions and the cash to fully takeover the club I just don't know why anybody would be so desperate to get their hands on a bit of paper proving they owned a few hundred Hibs shares. I really don't get it.

I want to buy shares in hibs not HSL. It might only be a bit of paper, but it will be a bit of paper that says I own a part of the club I've supported all my life and that means a lot to me.

[greenginger]

[QUOTE=Weststandwanab;4278007]The nanny state again.







He is not old enough to own shares in his own name so someone will have to hold them on his behalf






http://www.companylawclub.co.uk/topics/can_a_child_own_shares.shtml

There is nothing in law prevents minors owning shares, and I would doubt there is anything the Club Articles to that affect.

[NAE NOOKIE]

I want to buy shares in hibs not HSL. It might only be a bit of paper, but it will be a bit of paper that says I own a part of the club I've supported all my life and that means a lot to me.

This is exactly it for me too your Lordship.

I will invest in HSL if I get a wee bit of papers saying Mr Nae Nookie has a part share in a group with a part share in Hibs.

If not I will buy shares directly from Hibs in order to acquire my wee bit of paper.

I realise that an IFA is required for the second option .... But any IFA worth his or her salt must know this is an emotional purchase where no return is expected and would charge accordingly ..... lets face it, anybody buying shares in any of 99.9% of the worlds football clubs thinking they can make money should be placed under the care of a court appointed power of attorney.

So long as I get my wee bit of paper and my money helps Hibs I don't care which option I choose

[mim]

This is exactly it for me too your Lordship.

I will invest in HSL if I get a wee bit of papers saying Mr Nae Nookie has a part share in a group with a part share in Hibs.

If not I will buy shares directly from Hibs in order to acquire my wee bit of paper.

I realise that an IFA is required for the second option .... But any IFA worth his or her salt must know this is an emotional purchase where no return is expected and would charge accordingly ..... lets face it, anybody buying shares in any of 99.9% of the worlds football clubs thinking they can make money should be placed under the care of a court appointed power of attorney.

So long as I get my wee bit of paper and my money helps Hibs I don't care which option I choose

Buying shares in HSL generates funds for Hibs.
How does buying shares in Hibs generate funds for Hibs?

[lord bunberry]

Buying shares in HSL generates funds for Hibs.
How does buying shares in Hibs generate funds for Hibs?

HSL are buying shares in hibs. All the money raised is going on improving the team

[mim]

HSL are buying shares in hibs. All the money raised is going on improving the team
Exactly.
My question is how does it help Hibs if a fan buys shares in Hibs directly?

[Mikey]

Exactly.
My question is how does it help Hibs if a fan buys shares in Hibs directly?

This question was asked at the Q&A with LD and that was prior to us knowing anything about HSL.....


Q - What exactly will all monies raised be used for? Playing staff, equipment, wages, etc?

A – It would be used in the running of the football department, so that’s wages, equipment, players, etc.


So in theory it all goes into the same pot regardless of whether you buy direct or contribute to HSL.

[micksoo]

Exactly.
My question is how does it help Hibs if a fan buys shares in Hibs directly?

Because the club get the money in the same way as they do when HSL buy shares

[Weststandwanab]

[QUOTE=Weststandwanab;4278007]The nanny state again.







He is not old enough to own shares in his own name so someone will have to hold them on his behalf






http://www.companylawclub.co.uk/topics/can_a_child_own_shares.shtml

There is nothing in law prevents minors owning shares, and I would doubt there is anything the Club Articles to that affect.

Have you tried opening a bank account for an 18 month old ?

This is why it is almost impossible and it will apply to shares in this Country

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CDcQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FAge_of_ Legal_Capacity_%2528Scotland%2529_Act_1991&ei=***-VO3bEIjmaIDDgZAP&usg=AFQjCNEm9vPS40wntPlUk1Pa9PRVYIyjrg

[mim]

Because the club get the money in the same way as they do when HSL buy shares

If I own £1000 worth of shares in Hibs and decide to sell, I get the money, not Hibs.

[steve75]

If I own £1000 worth of shares in Hibs and decide to sell, I get the money, not Hibs.

Good thing Hibs own the shares being sold then

[lord bunberry]

If I own £1000 worth of shares in Hibs and decide to sell, I get the money, not Hibs.

But hibs got your original £1000. The shares I want to buy are the same shares that HSL are buying.

[monktonharp]

I doubt it. I happen to be a Chartered accountant myself although a public sector one! My understanding is you have to sit some exam (and to be regulated by some Financial body) to be able to call yourself an IFA.thanks for that. I doubt if I would approach my accountant then (if I had one). all very confusing, imho.

[Argylehibby]

If I own £1000 worth of shares in Hibs and decide to sell, I get the money, not Hibs.

The shares that are being sold are new shares currently they have no owner. When you buy them you are buying them from the organisation creating them, ie the club, who pocket the cash. HSL are buying the new shares too on behalf of the members who apply through them and the money they pay for the shares goes into the clubs coffers nobody elses.

[hibbymac]

According to the Governments website, Money Advice Service, you do not need to go to an IFA to buy shares.

This sounds like it is something The Club are doing to "cover their erse" :confused: or possibly force you down the HSL route :dunno:

https://www.moneyadviceservice.org.uk/en/articles/do-you-need-a-financial-adviser

Investments

If you’re thinking of investing in shares, unit trusts and other investments, you can go DIY but it will be more time consuming and risky because these products are harder to understand than savings. There’s also a risk that you might lose money or buy a product that’s not suitable for you because you don’t understand it. So you really need to do your homework.

[micksoo]

If I own £1000 worth of shares in Hibs and decide to sell, I get the money, not Hibs.

So as Hibs are selling the shares Hibs get the money

[SlickShoes]

So can you just buy one share for a flat fee? the club gets the money from that share being sold, then I am it's owner. I can then sell it on later if I choose?

If you go down the HSL route don't you have to continue paying £18.75 until you decide to not pay that monthly fee any more, at which point you don't own anything?

[Weststandwanab]

So can you just buy one share for a flat fee? the club gets the money from that share being sold, then I am it's owner. I can then sell it on later if I choose?

If you go down the HSL route don't you have to continue paying £18.75 until you decide to not pay that monthly fee any more, at which point you don't own anything?

Tricky decision then financially.

[Danderhall Hibs]

According to the Governments website, Money Advice Service, you do not need to go to an IFA to buy shares.

This sounds like it is something The Club are doing to "cover their erse" :confused: or possibly force you down the HSL route :dunno:

https://www.moneyadviceservice.org.uk/en/articles/do-you-need-a-financial-adviser

Investments

If you’re thinking of investing in shares, unit trusts and other investments, you can go DIY but it will be more time consuming and risky because these products are harder to understand than savings. There’s also a risk that you might lose money or buy a product that’s not suitable for you because you don’t understand it. So you really need to do your homework.

That's always been my understanding. Something's apparently changed though - although no ones been able to post a link to the change.

[Andy74]

That's always been my understanding. Something's apparently changed though - although no ones been able to post a link to the change.

There was a link somewhere.

Search FCA crowdfunding. You should find the discussion document on this and why shares such as this are different from the regular ones you can trade in.

[Danderhall Hibs]

There was a link somewhere.

Search FCA crowdfunding. You should find the discussion document on this and why shares such as this are different from the regular ones you can trade in.
Cheers - I'll have a look. Never heard of the term crowdfunding - that's probably the crucial word for the purpose of the search.

[Blaster]

I am an IFA and it is for affordability

So what are you charging for this mate? Hibs net member rates 😄??

[WhileTheChief..]

That's always been my understanding. Something's apparently changed though - although no ones been able to post a link to the change.

The website is referring to buying shares in a listed company. You can go online and buy shares in BP or Vodafone or whoever no problem.

Hibs are not floating on a stock market, this is entirely different to going out and buying shares in the Post Office or Facebook when they floated.

[WhileTheChief..]

A private company, which is what Hibs are, can not offer shares to the general public for sale.

They can however offer them to existing shareholders, professional investors or companies (hence the creation of HSL).

This is exactly what Hibs are doing, no scam or trying to steer anyone down a certain route.

Only PLCs can offer shares to the general public.

[Danderhall Hibs]

A private company, which is what Hibs are, can not offer shares to the general public for sale.

They can however offer them to existing shareholders, professional investors or companies (hence the creation of HSL).

This is exactly what Hibs are doing, no scam or trying to steer anyone down a certain route.

Only PLCs can offer shares to the general public.

I'm not saying it's a scam just wondering why I need an IFA. Is it because I need that to be classed as a "professional investor"?

Crowdfunding isn't covered by the FCA according to them...
http://www.fsa.gov.uk/fsa/consumerinformation/product_news/saving_investments/crowdfunding

[Andy74]

A private company, which is what Hibs are, can not offer shares to the general public for sale.

They can however offer them to existing shareholders, professional investors or companies (hence the creation of HSL).

This is exactly what Hibs are doing, no scam or trying to steer anyone down a certain route.

Only PLCs can offer shares to the general public.

To a point. There are other options other than an IFA such as self certifying which woukd have been far more sensible in the circumstances.

[Mikey]

A private company, which is what Hibs are, can not offer shares to the general public for sale.

They can however offer them to existing shareholders, professional investors or companies (hence the creation of HSL).

This is exactly what Hibs are doing, no scam or trying to steer anyone down a certain route.

Only PLCs can offer shares to the general public.

Hallelujah. Someone gets it :greengrin

Don't suppose you've got a link to something suitably official that people could refer to? It would put a lot of minds at ease.

[Danderhall Hibs]

Hallelujah. Someone gets it :greengrin

Don't suppose you've got a link to something suitably official that people could refer to? It would put a lot of minds at ease.

Weren't current shareholders general public before they bought theirs? How did you get yours - through an IFA?

Could be before this change in regulation and it being classed as crowdfunding though I suppose?

[Mikey]

Weren't current shareholders general public before they bought theirs? How did you get yours - through an IFA?

I bought them in October 2006, long before the new regulations came in.

[Danderhall Hibs]

I bought them in October 2006, long before the new regulations came in.

I thought that after I posted (see edit).

Although after reading the FCA website they say they don't regulate crowdfunding. So it must be called something else.

[marinello59]

Weren't current shareholders general public before they bought theirs? How did you get yours - through an IFA?

Could be before this change in regulation and it being classed as crowdfunding though I suppose?

Rules will have changed since the shares were originally sold and the most recent sales will not have been made by the club.

[Danderhall Hibs]

Maybe they do regulate it...
http://www.fca.org.uk/your-fca/documents/consultation-papers/cp13-13

This is too complicated. Have we got a free IFA sorted yet? :greengrin

[Mikey]

Hallelujah. Someone gets it :greengrin

Don't suppose you've got a link to something suitably official that people could refer to? It would put a lot of minds at ease.

Anyone want to have a flick through this? It's only 95 pages long!!......

14102

[Andy74]

Hallelujah. Someone gets it :greengrin

Don't suppose you've got a link to something suitably official that people could refer to? It would put a lot of minds at ease.

Non-readily realisable securities are covered by FCA Policy Statement PS14/4.

You can offer shares to:

- professional clients
- retail clients who confirm that, in relation to the investment promoted, they will receive regulated investment advice or investment management services from an authorised person
- retail clients who are venture capital contacts or corporate finance contacts
- retail clients who are certified or self-certify as sophisticated investors
- retail clients who are certified as high net worth investors
- retail clients who certify that they have not invested, and will not invest, more than 10% of their net investible financial assets in non-readily realisable securities.

[CropleyWasGod]

A private company, which is what Hibs are, can not offer shares to the general public for sale.

They can however offer them to existing shareholders, professional investors or companies (hence the creation of HSL).

This is exactly what Hibs are doing, no scam or trying to steer anyone down a certain route.

Only PLCs can offer shares to the general public.
So how are they allowed to offer shares to supporters who are not existing shareholders?

[Saturday Boy]

Non-readily realisable securities are covered by FCA Policy Statement PS14/4.

You can offer shares to:

- professional clients
- retail clients who confirm that, in relation to the investment promoted, they will receive regulated investment advice or investment management services from an authorised person
- retail clients who are venture capital contacts or corporate finance contacts
- retail clients who are certified or self-certify as sophisticated investors
- retail clients who are certified as high net worth investors
- retail clients who certify that they have not invested, and will not invest, more than 10% of their net investible financial assets in non-readily realisable securities.

Well that clears things up:confused:

[Danderhall Hibs]

Non-readily realisable securities are covered by FCA Policy Statement PS14/4.

You can offer shares to:

- professional clients
- retail clients who confirm that, in relation to the investment promoted, they will receive regulated investment advice or investment management services from an authorised person
- retail clients who are venture capital contacts or corporate finance contacts
- retail clients who are certified or self-certify as sophisticated investors
- retail clients who are certified as high net worth investors
- retail clients who certify that they have not invested, and will not invest, more than 10% of their net investible financial assets in non-readily realisable securities.

"Retail clients who are certified or self-certify as sophisticated investors."

I'm not sophisticated but willing to self certify that I am.

[Danderhall Hibs]

Well that clears things up:confused:

To be fair when the FCA are involved very little is clear. It's generally up to the company to go with what they think and hope the FCA don't pull them up.

[Saturday Boy]

To be fair when the FCA are involved very little is clear. It's generally up to the company to go with what they think and hope the FCA don't pull them up.

Agree totally. When I had to work for a living, it involved reading, and working to a number of strict laws. Now I've given that up :wink: my brain has turned to mush. I do like your idea of sophisticated buyer. I once saw a Tarkovsky movie at the Filmhouse, would that be enough?

[Andy74]

"Retail clients who are certified or self-certify as sophisticated investors."

I'm not sophisticated but willing to self certify that I am.

You could argue that you are in this case. You are sophisticated enough to understand that this is a football club and that the shares are an emotional purchase and that you are only buying them on that basis and are willing not to receive any return.

You have as much access to information on Hibs as existing holders. The accounts are all available to view.

I'm fairly sure not many of us would invest more than 10% of our assets in the shares either, or at least willing to tick a box to that extent.

[WhileTheChief..]

Hallelujah. Someone gets it :greengrin

Don't suppose you've got a link to something suitably official that people could refer to? It would put a lot of minds at ease.

Unfortunately not. Actually, there isn't much info out there partly I guess because buying shares in a limited company is extremely rare, almost unheard of in this context. The only info I could find was more to do with selling a business or buying out a partner.

[WhileTheChief..]

So how are they allowed to offer shares to supporters who are not existing shareholders?

Erm, they're not, hence this thread!

[Mikey]

Unfortunately not. Actually, there isn't much info out there partly I guess because buying shares in a limited company is extremely rare, almost unheard of in this context. The only info I could find was more to do with selling a business or buying out a partner.

There's a new sticky at the top of this page that should cover it.

[Andy74]

Erm, they're not, hence this thread!

They are though.

[CropleyWasGod]

Erm, they're not, hence this thread!
Yes they are.

[WhileTheChief..]

There's a new sticky at the top of this page that should cover it.

Summarized as pop into a local IFAs, ask them to sign the form for you, pay them a few quid and you're good to go. :)

[WhileTheChief..]

They are though.


Yes they are.


Existing shareholders can buy more shares.

HSL ( a company) can buy shares.

An individual can buy them though an IFA ( the professional investor).

That was my take on it anyways. Apologies for any confusion.

[CropleyWasGod]

Existing shareholders can buy more shares.

HSL ( a company) can buy shares.

An individual can buy them though an IFA ( the professional investor).

That was my take on it anyways. Apologies for any confusion.
Not "through" an IFA. They would buy them themselves, after proving that they have had the appropriate advice from an IFA.

Option 2 on the club statement is quite clear . Hence this thread:)

[Ronniekirk]

There's a new sticky at the top of this page that should cover it.
Is that the one that's 95 pages ?

[WhileTheChief..]

Not "through" an IFA. They would buy them themselves, after proving that they have had the appropriate advice from an IFA.

Option 2 on the club statement is quite clear . Hence this thread:)

Nice one. Reading that makes everything pretty clear... wheres all the confusion come from??!!

[Mikey]

Is that the one that's 95 pages ?

Aye.

We'll be asking questions later :greengrin

[lord bunberry]

There must be an IFA somewhere that is able to do this cheaply for the large amount of people needing it, or am I being too simplistic?

[johnbc70]

There must be an IFA somewhere that is able to do this cheaply for the large amount of people needing it, or am I being too simplistic?

To give 'advice' an IFA has to do a fact finding mission on each customer, which takes a lot of time and involves a lot of paperwork. The IFA has to be confident that the advice they are giving is correct for that individual. That being the case I would be surprised if any IFA would go near this, especially when most are talking investing in the hundreds.

I would be very surprised if Hibs get back just one form that is signed by an IFA. Only perhaps if someone is looking to invest tens of thousands would an IFA perhaps look to get involved.

[lord bunberry]

To give 'advice' an IFA has to do a fact finding mission on each customer, which takes a lot of time and involves a lot of paperwork. The IFA has to be confident that the advice they are giving is correct for that individual. That being the case I would be surprised if any IFA would go near this, especially when most are talking investing in the hundreds.

I would be very surprised if Hibs get back just one form that is signed by an IFA. Only perhaps if someone is looking to invest tens of thousands would an IFA perhaps look to get involved.
So it's HSL or nothing then?

[johnbc70]

So it's HSL or nothing then?

Yep, unless you get an IFA willing to take this on and give you that 'advice' and stamp the form then Hibs will not sell you the shares.

[BSEJVT]

To give 'advice' an IFA has to do a fact finding mission on each customer, which takes a lot of time and involves a lot of paperwork. The IFA has to be confident that the advice they are giving is correct for that individual. That being the case I would be surprised if any IFA would go near this, especially when most are talking investing in the hundreds.

I would be very surprised if Hibs get back just one form that is signed by an IFA. Only perhaps if someone is looking to invest tens of thousands would an IFA perhaps look to get involved.

Unfortunately you are absolutely correct, as an IFA I wouldn't have any interest at all in getting involved in this and I don't know any other IFA who would.

The idea of a "tame" IFA rubber stamping applications in the current regulatory environment is laughable. Its a one way ticket to losing your livelihood.

The other potential problem is that some IFA's PI cover wouldn't cover such investments anyway and they wouldn't dare get involved without appropriate PI cover.

Like a dog, an IFA's liability isn't just for Christmas, its for life.

[lord bunberry]

Yep, unless you get an IFA willing to take this on and give you that 'advice' and stamp the form then Hibs will not sell you the shares.

That's really disappointing. As I said on another thread I already spend over a grand a year on hibs and I just can't justify another £18.75 a month, especially since I miss so many games on my season ticket. I know it's not hibs fault but I find the whole thing really frustrating

[johnbc70]

Unfortunately you are absolutely correct, as an IFA I wouldn't have any interest at all in getting involved in this and I don't know any other IFA who would.

The idea of a "tame" IFA rubber stamping applications in the current regulatory environment is laughable. Its a one way ticket to losing your livelihood.

The other potential problem is that some IFA's PI cover wouldn't cover such investments anyway and they wouldn't dare get involved without appropriate PI cover.

Like a dog, an IFA's liability isn't just for Christmas, its for life.

Which just makes it all the more frustrating as I am sure the club knew this, and if not then they should sack their advisers. As I say I would be very surprised if the club get back just one letter that is stamped by an IFA.

[BSEJVT]

Which just makes it all the more frustrating as I am sure the club knew this, and if not then they should sack their advisers. As I say I would be very surprised if the club get back just one letter that is stamped by an IFA.

Its a great pity, its not that IFA's don't want to do it for not doing its sake.

But as you alluded to there a whole raft of paperwork that cant be ignored that carries a time cost that needs to be passed on.

The advice carries a liability and that liability is something IFA's are acutely aware of regardless what business they are writing as the liability for it never ever leaves them until they die.

Simple question:

How many people who took Payment Protection Insurance knowing what they were doing ( this wasn't largely an IFA sold product so I am not saying poor us) have now claimed.

If it can happen with PPI, it can happen with anything

People's basest instincts come to the fore when money is involved!

[IainA]

Hi Guys

I am an IFA and I can tell you that because of the cost and complexity of giving advice these days - I am not interested in getting involved.

Basically the FCA would jump on me if I did not do a full affordability and Risk and assessment on every single applicant. This would be very time consuming as you can imagine!
Then I would be fully responsible if anything went wrong.

IFA's have busy businesses to run including hefty FCA regulatory fees.

So this whole thing is CRAZY in my opinion.

Really sorry, wish I could help.

GGTTH

[Eyrie]

To give 'advice' an IFA has to do a fact finding mission on each customer, which takes a lot of time and involves a lot of paperwork. The IFA has to be confident that the advice they are giving is correct for that individual. That being the case I would be surprised if any IFA would go near this, especially when most are talking investing in the hundreds.

I would be very surprised if Hibs get back just one form that is signed by an IFA. Only perhaps if someone is looking to invest tens of thousands would an IFA perhaps look to get involved.

But if someone already had an IFA then a lot of that would be covered and all that is left is the specifics of the "investment" in Hibs.

[lord bunberry]

What happens if you own a company or you set up a company, could you then buy shares?

[Danderhall Hibs]

Hi Guys

I am an IFA and I can tell you that because of the cost and complexity of giving advice these days - I am not interested in getting involved.

Basically the FCA would jump on me if I did not do a full affordability and Risk and assessment on every single applicant. This would be very time consuming as you can imagine!
Then I would be fully responsible if anything went wrong.

IFA's have busy businesses to run including hefty FCA regulatory fees.

So this whole thing is CRAZY in my opinion.

Really sorry, wish I could help.

GGTTH

How much would you charge for this "advice".

[green day]

Which just makes it all the more frustrating as I am sure the club knew this, and if not then they should sack their advisers. As I say I would be very surprised if the club get back just one letter that is stamped by an IFA.

Sorry buts that's simply wrong.

Club has to lay out all the potential options - which they did (1,2,3).

Fairly obviously, unless you are already a shareholder, buying shares is a bit of a PITA.

so, option 3 (HSL) is the "easy" route - you won't have your own wee certificate, but so what? End result is the same, money to club is just the same.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

How much would you charge for this "advice".

I've asked this on a few threads, the closest I got to a response was "not a lot".

[IainA]

Sorry, as I said, I do not want to get involved in it. TBH I, and most IFA's are way too busy anyway.

its not only the cost but the time involved. Individual meetings, loads of paperwork etc, etc. Cannot justify it.

[johnbc70]

Sorry buts that's simply wrong.

Club has to lay out all the potential options - which they did (1,2,3).

Fairly obviously, unless you are already a shareholder, buying shares is a bit of a PITA.

so, option 3 (HSL) is the "easy" route - you won't have your own wee certificate, but so what? End result is the same, money to club is just the same.

There is another option - one I highlighted on a PM thread that the club never gave.

You could self-certify yourself as a sophisticated investor, and complete an Appropriateness Test to show that you have the required experience and knowledge to buy the shares.

This is covered by sections 4.6 to 4.8 of the FCA Policy Statement PS14/4.

[Danderhall Hibs]

Sorry, as I said, I do not want to get involved in it. TBH I, and most IFA's are way too busy anyway.

its not only the cost but the time involved. Individual meetings, loads of paperwork etc, etc. Cannot justify it.

You're making that much money that you're turning business away? So much for RDR being the end of the world.

[lord bunberry]

Sorry buts that's simply wrong.

Club has to lay out all the potential options - which they did (1,2,3).

Fairly obviously, unless you are already a shareholder, buying shares is a bit of a PITA.

so, option 3 (HSL) is the "easy" route - you won't have your own wee certificate, but so what? End result is the same, money to club is just the same.

It's not the same. HSL is an ongoing monthly charge which I'm not prepared to commit to.. For me it would the choice of a season ticket or HSL

[blackpoolhibs]

Hi Guys

I am an IFA and I can tell you that because of the cost and complexity of giving advice these days - I am not interested in getting involved.

Basically the FCA would jump on me if I did not do a full affordability and Risk and assessment on every single applicant. This would be very time consuming as you can imagine!
Then I would be fully responsible if anything went wrong.

IFA's have busy businesses to run including hefty FCA regulatory fees.

So this whole thing is CRAZY in my opinion.

Really sorry, wish I could help.

GGTTH

Bad news for those of us who wanted our own certificate, and maybe a seat at the AGM.

[Weststandwanab]

I've asked this on a few threads, the closest I got to a response was "not a lot".

I posted not a lot as that was precisely the answer I was given today verbally.

I will know for definite tomorrow when I collect the signed forms.

If this is either not a lot or nothing, how many people are interested in getting their forms signed ?

I will see what can be done if there is enough interest.




It's not the same. HSL is an ongoing monthly charge which I'm not prepared to commit to.. For me it would the choice of a season ticket or HSL

I agree with this and understand people's reluctance in these circumstances.

[IainA]

You're making that much money that you're turning business away? So much for RDR being the end of the world.

LOL, I wish I was. that's tje perception anyway 😜

RDR has been good though but not for the general public who miss out on advice. A couple of years ago HFC may have sent people to the banks - God forbid!!!

At least I can sign my own form if I want.

[macca70]

You're making that much money that you're turning business away? So much for RDR being the end of the world.

Post RDR and with the abolishment of Commission, IFA's are not going to work for free and therefore must charge their client a fee. Most IFA's will take a percentage of the investment/pension pot they are dealing with eg 3% of £50k investment = £1500 fee

The current full advice process is extremely time consuming for the Adviser; client meetings, research, report writing, completing paperwork (app forms). That could be 3, 4, 5 hrs work.

Within most IFA's fee structure, they will have a minimum eg £500 so it's hardly worthwhile paying an IFA £500 to make a £200 share purchase.

Also, for those that just want an ifa to stamp the form as a favour, the regulAtions and water tight compliance would not allow it. For an IFA to stamp the form and put his name against it, he'd have to go through the full advice process.

The adviser is also carrying a lifelong liability by stamping the form, years down the line whose to say 'Football Club' share purchases could be construed as misselling as it was irresponsible to recommend a financial transaction where your 'investment' effectively becomes worthless as soon as the transaction completes.

The sole purpose the majority want to buy the shares is to get the certificate and get that buzz from being a 'part owner', it's effectively a donation. There must be a route that Hibs could accommodate an Execution Only process. Put together a declaration explaining that you realise the share price could go up aswell as down and you fully accept that you could lose all your investment. The amount invested is affordable and that at no point in the future will you pursue another party for any financial loss incurred.

[Saturday Boy]

Thanks for that post Macca. It clears things up from a legal/ financial perspective and I love the avatar.

[Geo_1875]

So what qualifies as a sophisticated investor? Would being a shareholder in publicly traded companies be enough?

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

I'd much prefer to make a one off lump sum payment, and a nice wee certificate in return.

[Ringothedog]

Is there anything that would stop a current shareholder buying shares for a non shareholder and then transferring them to the non shareholder eg my dad gives me £200 I then buy £400 of shares. I get 10000 shares then transfer 5000 into his name

[Ringothedog]

Is there anything that would stop a current shareholder buying shares for a non shareholder and then transferring them to the non shareholder eg my dad gives me £200 I then buy £400 of shares. I get 10000 shares then transfer 5000 into his name

[BSEJVT]

Is there anything that would stop a current shareholder buying shares for a non shareholder and then transferring them to the non shareholder eg my dad gives me £200 I then buy £400 of shares. I get 10000 shares then transfer 5000 into his name

Not so far as I can see, although I think I remember reading about a 6 month waiting period in one of the threads for transfers out to take place?

Something for Hibs Net to get involved in Mikey?

[Mikey]

Not so far as I can see, although I think I remember reading about a 6 month waiting period in one of the threads for transfers out to take place?

Yep, 6 months it is. It's mentioned in the "Basics" thread.



Something for Hibs Net to get involved in Mikey?

No chance :greengrin

It would be easy enough for individuals to keep track of, but doing it for dozens or hundreds of people would be an absolute nightmare!

[BSEJVT]

Yep, 6 months it is. It's mentioned in the "Basics" thread.




No chance :greengrin

It would be easy enough for individuals to keep track of, but doing it for dozens or hundreds of people would be an absolute nightmare!

You are absolutely right it would be a full time job and would probably lead to no end of grief also. I should probably have added an appropriate smiley after that!

I had briefly considered offering to do so for friends and family, but its incompatible with my status.

I don't for a minute believe anyone expects ever to see their cash again but when I bought shares for my children and I, it was because we wanted to feel more part of the club and to blackmail future generations into doing so too:greengrin

Its a great pity that the rules will prevent lots of people from having that option

[hibbymac]

Post RDR and with the abolishment of Commission, IFA's are not going to work for free and therefore must charge their client a fee. Most IFA's will take a percentage of the investment/pension pot they are dealing with eg 3% of £50k investment = £1500 fee

The current full advice process is extremely time consuming for the Adviser; client meetings, research, report writing, completing paperwork (app forms). That could be 3, 4, 5 hrs work.

Within most IFA's fee structure, they will have a minimum eg £500 so it's hardly worthwhile paying an IFA £500 to make a £200 share purchase.

Also, for those that just want an ifa to stamp the form as a favour, the regulAtions and water tight compliance would not allow it. For an IFA to stamp the form and put his name against it, he'd have to go through the full advice process.

The adviser is also carrying a lifelong liability by stamping the form, years down the line whose to say 'Football Club' share purchases could be construed as misselling as it was irresponsible to recommend a financial transaction where your 'investment' effectively becomes worthless as soon as the transaction completes.

The sole purpose the majority want to buy the shares is to get the certificate and get that buzz from being a 'part owner', it's effectively a donation. There must be a route that Hibs could accommodate an Execution Only process. Put together a declaration explaining that you realise the share price could go up aswell as down and you fully accept that you could lose all your investment. The amount invested is affordable and that at no point in the future will you pursue another party for any financial loss incurred.

:agree: :top marks ... but don't let that get in the way of some folks having a go at IFA's :wink:

[Weststandwanab]

Post RDR and with the abolishment of Commission, IFA's are not going to work for free and therefore must charge their client a fee. Most IFA's will take a percentage of the investment/pension pot they are dealing with eg 3% of £50k investment = £1500 fee

The current full advice process is extremely time consuming for the Adviser; client meetings, research, report writing, completing paperwork (app forms). That could be 3, 4, 5 hrs work.

Within most IFA's fee structure, they will have a minimum eg £500 so it's hardly worthwhile paying an IFA £500 to make a £200 share purchase.

Also, for those that just want an ifa to stamp the form as a favour, the regulAtions and water tight compliance would not allow it. For an IFA to stamp the form and put his name against it, he'd have to go through the full advice process.

The adviser is also carrying a lifelong liability by stamping the form, years down the line whose to say 'Football Club' share purchases could be construed as misselling as it was irresponsible to recommend a financial transaction where your 'investment' effectively becomes worthless as soon as the transaction completes.

The sole purpose the majority want to buy the shares is to get the certificate and get that buzz from being a 'part owner', it's effectively a donation. There must be a route that Hibs could accommodate an Execution Only process. Put together a declaration explaining that you realise the share price could go up aswell as down and you fully accept that you could lose all your investment. The amount invested is affordable and that at no point in the future will you pursue another party for any financial loss incurred.

You do realise that the IFA “stamp” is required just to get you a prospectus ?

As I have already said if I put £225 on Hibs to win at the weekend with a bookies I do not need an IFA stamp or their approval !

With the prospectus will be an application to buy shares – which is where this stupid idea should be – not just to get the document.

However, based on this nonsense, which in my opinion is designed solely to put people off from investing privately and therefore into the hands of H.S.L., I expect there will be further obstacles of this type when applying to actually buy the shares.

[southsider]

You do realise that the IFA “stamp” is required just to get you a prospectus ?

As I have already said if I put £225 on Hibs to win at the weekend with a bookies I do not need an IFA stamp or their approval !

With the prospectus will be an application to buy shares – which is where this stupid idea should be – not just to get the document.

However, based on this nonsense, which in my opinion is designed solely to put people off from investing privately and therefore into the hands of H.S.L., I expect there will be further obstacles of this type when applying to actually buy the shares.

It cannot be in the clubs interest to put fans off buying shares

[Andy74]

It cannot be in the clubs interest to put fans off buying shares

Arguably it is in their interests to steer people to HSL though. They get the cash for little or no associated admin or cost - and one shareholder.

Shareholders cost money to maintain and in simple things like postage of accounts and AGM docs and to manatain the register/deal with transfers and so on.

I think Hibs have looked at the regulations, got advice and stuck it in the 'too difficult' category.

[Danderhall Hibs]

:agree: :top marks ... but don't let that get in the way of some folks having a go at IFA's :wink:

I don't think anyone's having a go at IFAs. Just surprised they're doing so well that they can afford to turn work away.

[Danderhall Hibs]

I think Hibs have looked at the regulations, got advice and stuck it in the 'too difficult' category.


I agree with you on this - although the IFAs on here also seem to be suggesting it's too difficult/time consuming as well.

[Radium]

Is there anything to stop HSL distributing the shared the buy on a pro rata basis

[CropleyWasGod]

Is there anything to stop HSL distributing the shared the buy on a pro rata basis

There are restrictions on the transferability of shares.

Haven't worked out exactly what they are yet, but they will be designed to prevent a scenario whereby a potential new owner could snap up all of HSL's shares, and those of private investors.

David Low has been tweeting about those very restrictions. Perhaps he had an idea to do exactly that. :greengrin

[ancient hibee]

I think this is a bit of a botch up and I admit I don't know the legal ins and outs.However it seems totally ridiculous to have to consult an IFA to obtain a prospectus-after all we may then decide not to invest.Having got the prospectus surely a potential investor should then sign a disclaimer to the effect that "I realise that in purchasing these shares there is no guarantee that I will be able to obtain my money back at a future date".No need for fancy rules and regulations just plain old fashioned words that mean what they say.

[Weststandwanab]

It cannot be in the clubs interest to put fans off buying shares

I did not say it was but see Andy74's point below.


Arguably it is in their interests to steer people to HSL though. They get the cash for little or no associated admin or cost - and one shareholder.

Shareholders cost money to maintain and in simple things like postage of accounts and AGM docs and to manatain the register/deal with transfers and so on.

I think Hibs have looked at the regulations, got advice and stuck it in the 'too difficult' category.

Spot on- I agree.


I think this is a bit of a botch up and I admit I don't know the legal ins and outs.However it seems totally ridiculous to have to consult an IFA to obtain a prospectus-after all we may then decide not to invest.Having got the prospectus surely a potential investor should then sign a disclaimer to the effect that "I realise that in purchasing these shares there is no guarantee that I will be able to obtain my money back at a future date".No need for fancy rules and regulations just plain old fashioned words that mean what they say.

It is a botch up and an attempt to wrap it in red tape and legislation.

You are correct there should be no restriction on getting a prospectus.

If you get the selling details on a house you do not need to get an IFA to counter sign to get the schedule

[Tyler Durden]

I think this is a bit of a botch up and I admit I don't know the legal ins and outs.However it seems totally ridiculous to have to consult an IFA to obtain a prospectus-after all we may then decide not to invest.Having got the prospectus surely a potential investor should then sign a disclaimer to the effect that "I realise that in purchasing these shares there is no guarantee that I will be able to obtain my money back at a future date".No need for fancy rules and regulations just plain old fashioned words that mean what they say.

Agreed - is this something Mikey could put to LD possibly?

Has anyone read the 95 page doc? Is self certification a non starter?

[Mikey]

Agreed - is this something Mikey could put to LD possibly?

Has anyone read the 95 page doc? Is self certification a non starter?

She said it again in today's statement....


Changes to legislation meant the practicalities of achieving wider supporter ownership were not as straightforward as they used to be....

They're not trying to be awkward, it's just that the rules have changed!

[Forza Fred]

It's all too complicated for me I'm afraid.

I have bought and sold shares over a long period, without external advice.

I trust most financial advisers about as much as Blackpool Hibs trusts A certain chairman of a certain football club.

Does it mean that I cannot buy shares in Hibs, living overseas, unless I meet with an Arfur Daley type financial adviser?

Secondly, Like many on this board I have contributed much money over the years to the Hibs cause....you will for example see my name on the wall of the bit in th Famous a Five stand....and if Inwas to contribute again it W O ULD be on the expectation that I get a share certificate to frame or suchlike.

I'm not sire people will just sign up for a pay deduction without a degree of formal acknowlegement

[hibbymac]

I don't think anyone's having a go at IFAs. Just surprised they're doing so well that they can afford to turn work away.

Looks like you did, .... a guy, an IFA, takes time to come on here and explains his reasons for not getting involved in any of this and you reply , "You're making that much money that you're turning business away? So much for RDR being the end of the world." .. sounds like having a go to me.

It could take an IFA about 4-5 hours work to do the job properly, I can't see many folk willing to pay £300-£500 for advice on wether they are suitable prospects to invest £200 in shares in a football club.

[IainA]

Thank you. 👍

[Danderhall Hibs]

Looks like you did, .... a guy, an IFA, takes time to come on here and explains his reasons for not getting involved in any of this and you reply , "You're making that much money that you're turning business away? So much for RDR being the end of the world." .. sounds like having a go to me.

It could take an IFA about 4-5 hours work to do the job properly, I can't see many folk willing to pay £300-£500 for advice on wether they are suitable prospects to invest £200 in shares in a football club.

I agree, however the IFAs that've been on here haven't explained that - they've just said they're not interested in the risk.

And my comment was flippant - IFAs have been banging on about the effect RDR is going I have/has had on their business. Seems like they're doing ok though.

[hibbymac]

Thank you. 

:aok:

[hibbymac]

I agree, however the IFAs that've been on here haven't explained that - they've just said they're not interested in the risk.

And my comment was flippant - IFAs have been banging on about the effect RDR is going I have/has had on their business. Seems like they're doing ok though.

Can't argue with that :wink: :greengrin

[BSEJVT]

I agree, however the IFAs that've been on here haven't explained that - they've just said they're not interested in the risk.

And my comment was flippant - IFAs have been banging on about the effect RDR is going I have/has had on their business. Seems like they're doing ok though.

Tell me, do you run your own business?

How do you deal with the risk /reward balance?

What costs do you incur to pay into a compensation scheme to ensure that if someone completely unrelated to you messes up years ago or years from now, that the clients are recompensed?

What regulatory fees do you pay?

Can your regulatory body walk through your door any day of their choosing and tie you up dealing with their queries for days on end, even though you have done nothing wrong, they just want to see what you do.

How often is your work checked, who checks the checkers checker?

What fees to professional bodies do you pay?

How significant an expense is your PI cover?

Are the costs of this cover determined by the type of business you write?

If they were would your limit your exposure to issues that impacted your costs, particularly if they were unprofitable?

Do you know how much you have to charge each hour to meet your costs and make a living?

Wouldn't it be more honest to say to folk, I am sorry but its not cost effective for either you or I for me to advise you here?

As a New Model Adviser RDR hasn't really impacted my business at all from a revenue point of view

You are right to say that it may have even benefitted it as there are for the moment at least fewer advisers around and a principal aim of RDR was to improve professionalism and conduct so maybe the hoary old clichés I have seen on this thread about IFA's will die out in time, I doubt it but hope springs eternal.

For every person moaning about IFA's I could point you to 50 of my clients who would tell you an entirely different story

The great pity of RDR and the increased costs and supervision brought about by all the changes over the years is that it has disenfranchised people at the lower end of the margins by making certain advice or certain sectors completely unprofitable.

Regretably, this share issue falls victim to that.

I thought long and hard about whether I could get involved, because I really wanted to, because I support entirely what the club are trying to achieve.

I just couldn't because of three mains reasons:

1) I couldn't spare the time, I am working like a dog

2) I couldn't charge the fees I would need to make it economically viable. How can you charge someone £1000, which is my minimum fee to invest £200?

You response will be to tell me I could charge what I wanted, but there is a cost of doing something at the expense of something else.

3) I couldn't run the risks, no matter how remote and providing this type of advice would bump up my PI costs

Its a shame that IFA's who are at least on this occasion entirely the innocent parties are taking another public caning for something they wanted no part of and haven't tried at all to "profit" from

[Danderhall Hibs]

Tell me, do you run your own business?

How do you deal with the risk /reward balance?

What costs do you incur to pay into a compensation scheme to ensure that if someone completely unrelated to you messes up years ago or years from now, that the clients are recompensed?

What regulatory fees do you pay?

Can your regulatory body walk through your door any day of their choosing and tie you up dealing with their queries for days on end, even though you have done nothing wrong, they just want to see what you do.

How often is your work checked, who checks the checkers checker?

What fees to professional bodies do you pay?

How significant an expense is your PI cover?

Are the costs of this cover determined by the type of business you write?

If they were would your limit your exposure to issues that impacted your costs, particularly if they were unprofitable?

Do you know how much you have to charge each hour to meet your costs and make a living?

Wouldn't it be more honest to say to folk, I am sorry but its not cost effective for either you or I for me to advise you here?

As a New Model Adviser RDR hasn't really impacted my business at all from a revenue point of view

You are right to say that it may have even benefitted it as there are for the moment at least fewer advisers around and a principal aim of RDR was to improve professionalism and conduct so maybe the hoary old clichés I have seen on this thread about IFA's will die out in time, I doubt it but hope springs eternal.

For every person moaning about IFA's I could point you to 50 of my clients who would tell you an entirely different story

The great pity of RDR and the increased costs and supervision brought about by all the changes over the years is that it has disenfranchised people at the lower end of the margins by making certain advice or certain sectors completely unprofitable.

Regretably, this share issue falls victim to that.

I thought long and hard about whether I could get involved, because I really wanted to, because I support entirely what the club are trying to achieve.

I just couldn't because of three mains reasons:

1) I couldn't spare the time, I am working like a dog

2) I couldn't charge the fees I would need to make it economically viable. How can you charge someone £1000, which is my minimum fee to invest £200?

You response will be to tell me I could charge what I wanted, but there is a cost of doing something at the expense of something else.

3) I couldn't run the risks, no matter how remote and providing this type of advice would bump up my PI costs

Its a shame that IFA's who are at least on this occasion entirely the innocent parties are taking another public caning for something they wanted no part of and haven't tried at all to "profit" from

I'd reply but I'm just too busy.

Seriously though I appreciate you need to make money and the difficulties that the FCA are putting in your way. The 1st couple of responses were very much disinterested rather than your full reply.

[GreenOnions]

For every person moaning about IFA's I could point you to 50 of my clients who would tell you an entirely different story



So - what would the rest of your clients say then? :wink:

[DC_Hibs]

Tell me, do you run your own business?



Yes, getting paid a good daily rate for mopping up IFA mistakes among other things.
I only work 9 to 5 though so I regrettably had to give up after reading your first question.

Kind Regards
DC_Hibs
Consumer Champion - righting the wrongs of Banks and IFA's

[kaimendhibs]

No

[BSEJVT]

So - what would the rest of your clients say then? :wink:

They would say why won't you sign off my Hibs share:hibees

[BSEJVT]

Yes, getting paid a good daily rate for mopping up IFA mistakes among other things.
I only work 9 to 5 though so I regrettably had to give up after reading your first question.

Kind Regards
DC_Hibs
Consumer Champion - righting the wrongs of Banks and IFA's

Great for you

If mistakes have been made they should be rectified

Not sure I see the need for your sarcasm though but maybe that's the only avenue available to guys like you who have never actually achieved anything for themselves?

[lapsedhibee]

Its a shame that IFA's who are at least on this occasion entirely the innocent parties are taking another public caning for something they wanted no part of and haven't tried at all to "profit" from

Take it that the "at least on this occasion" is a shorthand admission that the reason we are effectively unable to buy shares directly in Hibs is a consequence of the Financial Services Industry as a whole having been at it for years and years and years?

[Danderhall Hibs]

Take it that the "at least on this occasion" is a shorthand admission that the reason we are effectively unable to buy shares directly in Hibs is a consequence of the Financial Services Industry as a whole having been at it for years and years and years?

Just endownments and ppi.

[DC_Hibs]

maybe that the only avenue available to guys like you who have never actually achieved anything for themselves?

Haha, how would you know what I have achieved??

Will I email you a copy of the same exam certificates that you have?

Nice try!

[BSEJVT]

Take it that the "at least on this occasion" is a shorthand admission that the reason we are effectively unable to buy shares directly in Hibs is a consequence of the Financial Services Industry as a whole having been at it for years and years and years?

It was tongue in cheek!

That's a pretty sweeping generalisation is it not?

I would say the farcical situation over Hibs shares is more a reflection of the increasingly nanny state we live in.

That and the increasingly americanised compensation culture we live in makes people fearful of doing even the right thing, because it might not look right when judged on 20 years from nows standards. So it's easier to do nothing.

Presumably you are aware that IFA's help their clients deal with recompense claims for provider errors and when they have been wrongly advised in the past?

No? keep generalising away!

[IainA]

Just endownments and ppi.

Ambulance chasing then.

And how much do you take for that 'service'? What sort of regulation do you have to adhere to to ensure that you treat people fairly?

Sorry but IFA's should not have been brought into this.

Of course we would help our fellow Hibees if we could but as I clearly stated earlier, the regulation makes it impossible.

GGTTH

[Hibbyradge]

What would it cost for a shareholder to buy more shares now and transfer them to a non-shareholder, apart from the cost of the shares themselves?

[lapsedhibee]

That's a pretty sweeping generalisation is it not?

I would say the farcical situation over Hibs shares is more a reflection of the increasingly nanny state we live in.

That and the increasingly americanised compensation culture we live in makes people fearful of doing even the right thing, because it might not look right when judged on 20 years from nows standards. So it's easier to do nothing.

Presumably you are aware that IFA's help their clients deal with recompense claims for provider errors and when they have been wrongly advised in the past?

No? keep generalising away!

Yes, but the availability of recompense is solely due to what you call the nanny state stepping in and curbing the worst of the financial services industry's abuse of its customers. I don't pick out IFAs in particular, and in that sense yes, there is a generalisation. There seems to have been a culture in high street banks, for example, of lying to cover up mistakes (I presume because somebody's done market research to show that if a bank admits to making a mistake with a customer's money, the customer will lose confidence in that organisation and take his or her custom elsewhere).

And I've reported you to The Apostrophe Society.

[CropleyWasGod]

What would it cost for a shareholder to buy more shares now and transfer them to a non-shareholder, apart from the cost of the shares themselves?
There's restrictions on the transferability of the shares. That's presumably to stop someone buying second hand shares and building up a large holding for themselves.

[Weststandwanab]

There's restrictions on the transferability of the shares. That's presumably to stop someone buying second hand shares and building up a large holding for themselves.

There is probably nothing to stop someone issuing an option to buy the shares- in these circumstances - after the 6 month deferment period.

[GreenOnions]

There's restrictions on the transferability of the shares. That's presumably to stop someone buying second hand shares and building up a large holding for themselves.

Could this be an additional argument for the HSL vehicle - an additional protection for the club and fans from individuals/corporate entities, over time, hoovering up shares and then becoming a dominant/controlling voice in the boardroom? HSL would imply supporters' interests being represented collectively thereby providing a degree of protection against erosion of influence in the future?

[CropleyWasGod]

Could this be an additional argument for the HSL vehicle - an additional protection for the club and fans from individuals/corporate entities, over time, hoovering up shares and then becoming a dominant/controlling voice in the boardroom? HSL would imply supporters' interests being represented collectively thereby providing a degree of protection against erosion of influence in the future?

That's a fair point.

[BSEJVT]

And I've reported you to The Apostrophe Society.

That's a bit harsh I am agnostic

[BSEJVT]

Haha, how would you know what I have achieved??

Will I email you a copy of the same exam certificates that you have?

Nice try!

If the best you can do is get a compliance job and don't have the balls to actually put your head above the parapet and provide advice, I would hazard a guess at not a lot!

Any silly arse can follow procedures and look at yesterdays advice with todays standards and pay out other folks monies.

I know lots of people doing the job you are currently doing and those with relevant qualifications are without exception failed advisers.

What is they say those that can do, those that cant work in compliance.

I am done with this now, better things to do.