Hands On Hibs - No Substance. Unhelpful Voice

[DaveF]

"I'm coming to Dalkeith tomorrow anyway start digging, 2 birds 1 stone" was roughly what he said. Best thing is I'll be 200 mile away so it'll be a pointless exercise. He's deleted the tweets now but I hope it shows people who may have been undecided about this mob what they're really about.

That is ridiculous, but not surprising. Have you got a copy of the tweets?

No doubt some HoH 'supporters' will claim that it was said in jest or taken out of context :rolleyes:

[CentreLine]

If your all wondering what one of the main voices behind hands on Hibs will be doing this match day he will be scouring Dalkeith looking for me and another guy so he can bury us. They should be nowhere near our club.


Isn't it incredible that some people just do not understand that the vast majority of people wish to get through life without violence.

[SunshineOnLeith]

"I'm coming to Dalkeith tomorrow anyway start digging, 2 birds 1 stone" was roughly what he said. Best thing is I'll be 200 mile away so it'll be a pointless exercise. He's deleted the tweets now but I hope it shows people who may have been undecided about this mob what they're really about.

Did you screenshot them? The police take threats over Twitter quite seriously these days.

[DarlingtonHibee]

:agree:

I really don't give a jot about who has done this, that, or anything else to get us to the situation effectively we are potentially in now!

Who wrote off this or that doesn't matter. The Bank debt will have been set off within different scenarios, so, who as a Hibs fan really cares if it has happened/happening to clear the Bank debt - they have an agreement which must satisfy them with their overall various football debts, etc.

We have the opportunity now to only be paying off obligations of £5m over 10 years at zero per cent non-interest :greengrin. (i.e., £500k, per annum which can be paid monthly, or, annually - not sure about the timing, but not a problem either way. (Monthly would be best because of the zero % interest rate!)

Additionally, we supporters can pay amounts to get us 51% of the Club for only £2.5 million pounds which can be collected over a period of time, which will give us the assets of the Stadium and East Mains Training Centre/Academy. Therefore, in control of the Club!

What a fantastic opportunity for us Hibees to kick on from there!

What's not to like? :confused: Never mind the naysayers ..... Lets go for it for goodness sake! :thumbsup:

HSL for me - see you Wednesday HR :thumbsup:

[hibsbollah]

"I'm coming to Dalkeith tomorrow anyway start digging, 2 birds 1 stone" was roughly what he said..

:dunno: are these people for real? Its almost like a yam invention.

[Arch Stanton]

Didn't say they 'buckled' under pressure but responded to it appropriately by very helpfully addressing the points raised by Low, Riley, HOH, Buy Hibs people on this board etc etc.

I doubt Hibs would have been keeping details of their scheme secret.

Anyway, the non-communicative era for Hibs ended when LD arrived - not 2 weeks ago.

[blackpoolhibs]

I doubt Hibs would have been keeping details of their scheme secret.

Anyway, the non-communicative era for Hibs ended when LD arrived - not 2 weeks ago.

:agree:

And the work on whats happening now had started before she arrived.

[Dashing Bob S]

It's a bit like NASA having to put evidence out that the moon landings actually happened because some conspiracy theorists claim publicly that a flag on the moon is flapping in a non-existent breeze or the shadows are wrong in photos.

Personally, I'd rather the CEO was working at improving the club rather than having to release lengthy statements every time some publicity-hungry individual or mob ask some outlandish questions.

I agree, but the reaction of some fans is understandable given where we've been heading the last seven years, and the ongoing (now reversed) pathetic board reaction to our decline. Hopefully we'll be able to move on now.

[Dashing Bob S]

I doubt Hibs would have been keeping details of their scheme secret.

Anyway, the non-communicative era for Hibs ended when LD arrived - not 2 weeks ago.

Yes, Dempster has done a great job. It can't be easy for her reconciling the desires of different fans groups who want to know everything, with the Petrie/STF tendency to divulge little.

[Andy74]

Dempster latest interview saying BuyHibs could have been the vehicle if they had spoken to the club. We did try and tell them.

[jacomo]

Dempster latest interview saying BuyHibs could have been the vehicle if they had spoken to the club. We did try and tell them.

'Here's what you could have won.'

I think LD quite enjoyed that. BuyHibs publicly snubbed her, and now she gets a comeback. She doesn't take any ****.

[blackpoolhibs]

'Here's what you could have won.'

I think LD quite enjoyed that. BuyHibs publicly snubbed her, and now she gets a comeback. She doesn't take any ****.

:agree:

[Winston Ingram]

I see Hands on Hibs are still making posters.

They still look like they have been produced by someone with an iq of under 20 who's having their first go on photoshop

[Pretty Boy]

I see Hands on Hibs are still making posters.

They still look like they have been produced by someone with an iq of under 20 who's having their first go on photoshop

#justwarmingup apparently.

And of course there is only 5 posters on here with multiple identities each who are board puppets. It must be true I read it from HoH on Twitter and everything else they have said has been spot on so far......

[RyeSloan]

#justwarmingup apparently. And of course there is only 5 posters on here with multiple identities each who are board puppets. It must be true I read it from HoH on Twitter and everything else they have said has been spot on so far......

I'm starting to think its about time we took Hibs name back off this mob....Hands on Hibs is a play on a name that has a historical significance to the survival of Hibernian...for that same name to be used to undermine and attack the club for personal vendettas is really starting to pi$$ me off.
Absolutely no problems with people questioning the clubs actions and asking for answers but there are ways to do this...the attacks (and they can only be described as that) launched by HoH and to a lesser extent BH are damaging to the club as a whole and now might be the time that HoH are asked to cease and desist of face some consequences for their defamation.

[Winston Ingram]

I'm starting to think its about time we took Hibs name back off this mob....Hands on Hibs is a play on a name that has a historical significance to the survival of Hibernian...for that same name to be used to undermine and attack the club for personal vendettas is really starting to pi$$ me off.
Absolutely no problems with people questioning the clubs actions and asking for answers but there are ways to do this...the attacks (and they can only be described as that) launched by HoH and to a lesser extent BH are damaging to the club as a whole and now might be the time that HoH are asked to cease and desist of face some consequences for their defamation.

I'd agree with this but I can't see how we could do this. Hibs have addressed any reasonable concerns and they are apparently #justwarmingup. To me it's clear they aren't the cleverest & just want to cause bother

[McD]

It's interesting that the HOH crowd have all disappeared off of here, although apparently still spouting off elsewhere.

So much for any answers from them. Did anyone meet Kano or Boris at QotS yesterday?

[matty_f]

It's interesting that the HOH crowd have all disappeared off of here, although apparently still spouting off elsewhere.

So much for any answers from them. Did anyone meet Kano or Boris at QotS yesterday?

To be fair to Boris, other than his tweet which I quoted, in all the years I've been using this site, I can't remember ever taking exception to any of his posts and generally consider him a decent poster. I'm not sure he's actually in the HoH camp.

[Baldy Foghorn]

It's interesting that the HOH crowd have all disappeared off of here, although apparently still spouting off elsewhere.

So much for any answers from them. Did anyone meet Kano or Boris at QotS yesterday?

Think Boris is just cheesed off at the amount of negativity and the various factions.....

[Baldy Foghorn]

Dempster latest interview saying BuyHibs could have been the vehicle if they had spoken to the club. We did try and tell them.

Anyone got the link to the article?

[andrew70]

It's interesting that the HOH crowd have all disappeared off of here, although apparently still spouting off elsewhere.

So much for any answers from them. Did anyone meet Kano or Boris at QotS yesterday?

Whilst I don't agree with them, I am sure like us they are Hibs fans. I saw a good few of them at Dumfries yesterday. Backing the team as always.

Unfortunately the fractious atmosphere of late will only continue until the club prove that we can keep moving forward.

The large strides made of late are only the first part of the jigsaw.

HOH wanting Farmer just to gift everything to the club is completely laughable though. Let's just all get on with supporting our club, in the ways we see fit. I am confident that Hibs, as a whole, will bring us back together so to speak.

[marinello59]

Anyone got the link to the article?

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/spfl-lower-divisions/dempster-buyhibs-could-have-been-driving-force-1-3670316

[DaveF]

Whilst I don't agree with them, I am sure like us they are Hibs fans. I saw a good few of them at Dumfries yesterday. Backing the team as always.

Unfortunately the fractious atmosphere of late will only continue until the club prove that we can keep moving forward.

The large strides made of late are only the first part of the jigsaw.

HOH wanting Farmer just to gift everything to the club is completely laughable though. Let's just all get on with supporting our club, in the ways we see fit. I am confident that Hibs, as a whole, will bring us back together so to speak.

You mean HoH people? Do you know them or were they wearing badges :greengrin

[DaveF]

That's exactly what they are.

14136

That's a belter and let's everyone know what they are dealing with. I assume it's been deleted now though.

[21.05.2016]

I'm starting to think its about time we took Hibs name back off this mob....Hands on Hibs is a play on a name that has a historical significance to the survival of Hibernian...for that same name to be used to undermine and attack the club for personal vendettas is really starting to pi$$ me off.
Absolutely no problems with people questioning the clubs actions and asking for answers but there are ways to do this...the attacks (and they can only be described as that) launched by HoH and to a lesser extent BH are damaging to the club as a whole and now might be the time that HoH are asked to cease and desist of face some consequences for their defamation.

Agree with this 100%. HoH seem to be using anything they possibly can to create a war with the club. They are clearly trying to rally fans together in an us versus them type situation.

[andrew70]

You mean HoH people? Do you know them or were they wearing badges :greengrin

It was the angry demonstrations that gave it away. They were demanding to be let in for nothing.

No in all seriousness, I know a few of them.

[DaveF]

It was the angry demonstrations that gave it away. They were demanding to be let in for nothing.

No in all seriousness, I know a few of them.

:thumbsup:

[IanM]

They were demanding to be let in for nothing..

😂😂

The best way to solve this is to voice your acceptance of the HSL scheme/buying shares on the 2nd

Falling that, buy a season ticket

Or if you've not been along for a while, pop back along this Saturday and support the team again. Everyone welcome

[Winston Ingram]

It's interesting that the HOH crowd have all disappeared off of here, although apparently still spouting off elsewhere.

So much for any answers from them. Did anyone meet Kano or Boris at QotS yesterday?

I saw one of them refer to this place as fibs.net on Twitter yesterday.

[McD]

To be fair to Boris, other than his tweet which I quoted, in all the years I've been using this site, I can't remember ever taking exception to any of his posts and generally consider him a decent poster. I'm not sure he's actually in the HoH camp.


Based on his posts on here I'd agree with you Matty, however some of his tweets were rather derogatory about .net in general. I'm sure we're all getting annoyed at the negativity (your post the other day was terrific btw), and I'm sure we'd all be interested in anything that HoH has to say, if they have good reasoning and facts behind it.

[Baldy Foghorn]

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/spfl-lower-divisions/dempster-buyhibs-could-have-been-driving-force-1-3670316

Thanks J.....

[McPhisto2]

Hi all,

Admin, feel free to move to the appropriate thread.
Just drove back from Morrisons on the Granton Waterfront along by Edinburgh College and I see a sign attached to a lamp post warning Hibs supporters that the share offer is a "Ponzi" scheme.

Seems like there's a lot of strong feeling out there about this.

Thoughts?:confused:

[ACLeith]

Hi all,

Admin, feel free to move to the appropriate thread.
Just drove back from Morrisons on the Granton Waterfront along by Edinburgh College and I see a sign attached to a lamp post warning Hibs supporters that the share offer is a "Ponzi" scheme.

Seems like there's a lot of strong feeling out there about this.

Thoughts?:confused:

Saw signs around Harry Lauder Road this morning. Usual nonsense.

[Peevemor]

Hi all,

Admin, feel free to move to the appropriate thread.
Just drove back from Morrisons on the Granton Waterfront along by Edinburgh College and I see a sign attached to a lamp post warning Hibs supporters that the share offer is a "Ponzi" scheme.

Seems like there's a lot of strong feeling out there about this.

Thoughts?:confused:


I think they must mean "Fonzie" - because it's cool!

14157

[Twiglet]

Saw one at Cameron Toll and another on Dalkeith Road this morning. Absolute rubbish.

[CropleyWasGod]

Hi all,

Admin, feel free to move to the appropriate thread.
Just drove back from Morrisons on the Granton Waterfront along by Edinburgh College and I see a sign attached to a lamp post warning Hibs supporters that the share offer is a "Ponzi" scheme.

Seems like there's a lot of strong feeling out there about this.

Thoughts?:confused:

One of the perps lives in Muirhouse, and has put up a few around there.

[Brightside]

Clowns - I'd ban them from Hibs.

[CropleyWasGod]

I think they must mean "Fonzie" - because it's cool!

14157

Nah... it's Poncey.

[jacomo]

Hi all,

Admin, feel free to move to the appropriate thread.
Just drove back from Morrisons on the Granton Waterfront along by Edinburgh College and I see a sign attached to a lamp post warning Hibs supporters that the share offer is a "Ponzi" scheme.

Seems like there's a lot of strong feeling out there about this.

Thoughts?:confused:

My initial thought is that they don't know what a Ponzi scheme is.

My 2nd thought is that somebody had a dream that they would end up in charge of Hibs, and since waking up have been acting like a spoiled child.

My 3rd thought is that this is a personal vendetta against Tom Farmer and nothing to do with the club anymore.

[greenginger]

One of the perps lives in Muirhouse, and has put up a few around there.


Start a counter-claim, that they are all undercover Yams trying to derail our share scheme.

[Seven Zero]

There is a big poster from HOH outside the Balmoral Hotel on Princes Street. What aload of nonsense. I feel embarrassed looking at it!

[McPhisto2]

I'm not going to pretend I understand the whole thing and honestly I can't afford to buy any shares, but having done the obligatory "google" search on the word" Ponzi", on the face of it, it does seem to fit whats being offered.

I want to also say I'm 100% behind Hibs and can't understand why HOH are acting like children over this, other than they now feel irrelevant.

[Onceinawhile]

I'm not going to pretend I understand the whole thing and honestly I can't afford to buy any shares, but having done the obligatory "google" search on the word" Ponzi", on the face of it, it does seem to fit whats being offered.

I want to also say I'm 100% behind Hibs and can't understand why HOH are acting like children over this, other than they now feel irrelevant.

It isn't a ponzi scheme, or at least as far as I'm aware, no one is investing in Hibs for possible returns? Are they?

HOH trying to use financial words to look clever and failing.

[Dave-O]

Running up and down Leith with a pickup and a billboard on a trailer saying the shares issue is a shakedown!

absolute embarrassment......erkies the lot of them.

[Mikey]

It's not really a big problem. They're not going to derail it and they're not going to contribute themselves.

It means that the 51% will mostly be made up of down to earth, level headed, sensible Hibs fans. That'll do me.

[jacomo]

I'm not going to pretend I understand the whole thing and honestly I can't afford to buy any shares, but having done the obligatory "google" search on the word" Ponzi", on the face of it, it does seem to fit whats being offered.

I want to also say I'm 100% behind Hibs and can't understand why HOH are acting like children over this, other than they now feel irrelevant.

It's nothing like a Ponzi scheme. The share issue is offering people membership of HSL and explaining how that money will be used. It is not pretending to be something it is not.

Each supporter can decide whether or not the share issue is something they want to take part in. Suggesting it is a scam is ridiculous. Google Bernie Madoff and see what a real scam looks like.

[RyeSloan]

I'm not going to pretend I understand the whole thing and honestly I can't afford to buy any shares, but having done the obligatory "google" search on the word" Ponzi", on the face of it, it does seem to fit whats being offered. I want to also say I'm 100% behind Hibs and can't understand why HOH are acting like children over this, other than they now feel irrelevant.

Sorry but that's nonsense...a ponzi scheme is a scheme that purports to give above average returns indefinitely to people who join...those returns are paid using funds from new people joining...the scheme works until not enough new people join and the whole thing falls over.

Quite how that can be compared to a share issue that is universally accepted will provide zero return is beyond me.

[RyeSloan]

Hi all, Admin, feel free to move to the appropriate thread. Just drove back from Morrisons on the Granton Waterfront along by Edinburgh College and I see a sign attached to a lamp post warning Hibs supporters that the share offer is a "Ponzi" scheme. Seems like there's a lot of strong feeling out there about this. Thoughts?:confused:

One on willobrae road as well...something about farmer being in it for farmer...sure the council will be interested in whoever has been illegally fly posting the whole city.

Have half a mind to take a wee drive past with a pair of snips and take it down...embarrassing nonsense.

[Dashing Bob S]

Don't really see what the problem is. The club are saying this scheme is great, a group of dissident fans are saying it's a rip-off. People will simply make up their own minds.

To me the key to this is Leanne Dempster and her power/role within the club. Forget the details of the scheme, it's all about the board credibility.

Rewind to a year ago: if the same proposals were announced by Farmer and Petrie in the pre-Dempster Butcher era, then most of us would have been with HOH in sentiment. (Dubious tactics and wilder contentions aside.)

Some people are (I think rightly, depending on their personal circumstances) giving this a chance as they see the board as a different animal now, and they see Dempster's (rather than Farmer and Petrie's) hand in this. I think the counter point that HOH are (awkwardly) making, is that this is not a footballing, but a financial matter.

I'm the last person in the world who would urge people NOT to put money into Hibs. I do think that people should be very cautious about the concept of 'fan ownership' in general, touted as the ultimate aim of this share issue. Fan ownership is a terrific concept, (why not have the people who care about the club owning it) and therefore it's become a bit like saving the Panda. To talk against is sacrilege.

But if fan ownership was so good, it would be far more widespread than it is. Fan who 'own' the club will have 'control' but they will also have responsibilities, particularly financial ones. They, not a multi-milionaire, will be entrusted to keep the club afloat. So there will be more share issues, more donations, more standing orders, direct debits and repayment of bank loans etc.

If you're up for all that, you certainly should proceed. If you're an old school fan who buys his ST, meets up with friends on a Saturday, goes to the game, then it's all basically over again until it becomes part of that Friday feeling, then you might want to swerve this one.

Anybody who is gullible enough to be swayed by the board of a club who have until recently been incompetence personified at our core business of football, or a group of maverick fans who, whatever their instincts, have use confused and underhand methods, deserves to be ripped off/miss the opportunity of a lifetime.

[Onion]

Running up and down Leith with a pickup and a billboard on a trailer saying the shares issue is a shakedown!

absolute embarrassment......erkies the lot of them.

Still unsure about whole share issue thing and will probably wait and see how things develop before making any hasty decisions... but one thing is certain is that nothing is certain in football or finance. It's riddled with failed share issues, dodgy deals and corruption. Only time will tell us if this particular investment opportunity is the "no-brainer" some people think it is :greengrin

[RyeSloan]

Still unsure about whole share issue thing and will probably wait and see how things develop before making any hasty decisions... but one thing is certain is that nothing is certain in football or finance. It's riddled with failed share issues, dodgy deals and corruption. Only time will tell us if this particular investment opportunity is the "no-brainer" some people think it is :greengrin

In what way are people suggesting it is a no brainer?

From what I've seen the vast majority of people see it as a way of owing (directly or indirectly) a piece of the club and are treating it more as a donation rather than an investment!

[Bostonhibby]

My initial thought is that they don't know what a Ponzi scheme is.

My 2nd thought is that somebody had a dream that they would end up in charge of Hibs, and since waking up have been acting like a spoiled child.

My 3rd thought is that this is a personal vendetta against Tom Farmer and nothing to do with the club anymore.
Agree. The very least they could have done is look at the basics of a ponzi on line.

[Onion]

Don't really see what the problem is. The club are saying this scheme is great, a group of dissident fans are saying it's a rip-off. People will simply make up their own minds.

To me the key to this is Leanne Dempster and her power/role within the club. Forget the details of the scheme, it's all about the board credibility.

Rewind to a year ago: if the same proposals were announced by Farmer and Petrie in the pre-Dempster Butcher era, then most of us would have been with HOH in sentiment. (Dubious tactics and wilder contentions aside.)

Some people are (I think rightly, depending on their personal circumstances) giving this a chance as they see the board as a different animal now, and they see Dempster's (rather than Farmer and Petrie's) hand in this. I think the counter point that HOH are (awkwardly) making, is that this is not a footballing, but a financial matter.

I'm the last person in the world who would urge people NOT to put money into Hibs. I do think that people should be very cautious about the concept of 'fan ownership' in general, touted as the ultimate aim of this share issue. Fan ownership is a terrific concept, (why not have the people who care about the club owning it) and therefore it's become a bit like saving the Panda. To talk against is sacrilege.

But if fan ownership was so good, it would be far more widespread than it is. Fan who 'own' the club will have 'control' but they will also have responsibilities, particularly financial ones. They, not a multi-milionaire, will be entrusted to keep the club afloat. So there will be more share issues, more donations, more standing orders, direct debits and repayment of bank loans etc.

If you're up for all that, you certainly should proceed. If you're an old school fan who buys his ST, meets up with friends on a Saturday, goes to the game, then it's all basically over again until it becomes part of that Friday feeling, then you might want to swerve this one.

Anybody who is gullible enough to be swayed by the board of a club who have until recently been incompetence personified at our core business of football, or a group of maverick fans who, whatever their instincts, have use confused and underhand methods, deserves to be ripped off/miss the opportunity of a lifetime.

Nicely balanced, DBS :greengrin And some excellent points well made.

[jacomo]

Don't really see what the problem is. The club are saying this scheme is great, a group of dissident fans are saying it's a rip-off. People will simply make up their own minds.

To me the key to this is Leanne Dempster and her power/role within the club. Forget the details of the scheme, it's all about the board credibility.

Rewind to a year ago: if the same proposals were announced by Farmer and Petrie in the pre-Dempster Butcher era, then most of us would have been with HOH in sentiment. (Dubious tactics and wilder contentions aside.)

Some people are (I think rightly, depending on their personal circumstances) giving this a chance as they see the board as a different animal now, and they see Dempster's (rather than Farmer and Petrie's) hand in this. I think the counter point that HOH are (awkwardly) making, is that this is not a footballing, but a financial matter.

I'm the last person in the world who would urge people NOT to put money into Hibs. I do think that people should be very cautious about the concept of 'fan ownership' in general, touted as the ultimate aim of this share issue. Fan ownership is a terrific concept, (why not have the people who care about the club owning it) and therefore it's become a bit like saving the Panda. To talk against is sacrilege.

But if fan ownership was so good, it would be far more widespread than it is. Fan who 'own' the club will have 'control' but they will also have responsibilities, particularly financial ones. They, not a multi-milionaire, will be entrusted to keep the club afloat. So there will be more share issues, more donations, more standing orders, direct debits and repayment of bank loans etc.

If you're up for all that, you certainly should proceed. If you're an old school fan who buys his ST, meets up with friends on a Saturday, goes to the game, then it's all basically over again until it becomes part of that Friday feeling, then you might want to swerve this one.

Anybody who is gullible enough to be swayed by the board of a club who have until recently been incompetence personified at our core business of football, or a group of maverick fans who, whatever their instincts, have use confused and underhand methods, deserves to be ripped off/miss the opportunity of a lifetime.

This remains the big unanswered question to me. If Hibs has tough times in the future, where does the club turn for a loan? The banks won't want to know, and this deal with the £5m is being painted as a final, one-off settlement. Does that mean no more loans from STF?

[Bostonhibby]

It isn't a ponzi scheme, or at least as far as I'm aware, no one is investing in Hibs for possible returns? Are they?

HOH trying to use financial words to look clever and failing.
Indeed, or per ponzi, none of us are expecting the impressive returns that can flow at the outset to keep investors on the hook.

Ah well,another day another........

[Onion]

In what way are people suggesting it is a no brainer?

From what I've seen the vast majority of people see it as a way of owing (directly or indirectly) a piece of the club and are treating it more as a donation rather than an investment!

Think you've just answered the question :greengrin

[Pete]

People thinking about shelling out will no doubt look at the facts and figures presented and will make an informed choice. There is only one side doing that just now.

Give them enough rope...

[Dashing Bob S]

This remains the big unanswered question to me. If Hibs has tough times in the future, where does the club turn for a loan? The banks won't want to know, and this deal with the £5m is being painted as a final, one-off settlement. Does that mean no more loans from STF?

I can't see how it could possibly mean anything else. Anybody else have a view?

[matty_f]

This remains the big unanswered question to me. If Hibs has tough times in the future, where does the club turn for a loan? The banks won't want to know, and this deal with the £5m is being painted as a final, one-off settlement. Does that mean no more loans from STF?

We live within our means, is the answer to that one. There is no major infrastructure spend required anytime soon, and only one manageable and interest free debt to be repaid, so the club needs to survive on what it brings in.

We shouldn't need a lender if we are self-sufficient.

[Dashing Bob S]

People thinking about shelling out will no doubt look at the facts and figures presented and will make an informed choice. There is only one side doing that just now.

Give them enough rope...

I agree. I think HOH have fed into legitimate concerns about the Farmer-Petrie stewardship but the point is made and folks can make their own minds up. But the bigger issue is fan ownership and what that will mean for the club.

[CropleyWasGod]

I can't see how it could possibly mean anything else. Anybody else have a view?

I agree with what Matty says above.

However, I would also expect that there will be provisions in the deal for repayment-holidays, but only when we absolutely need it.

[Dashing Bob S]

We live within our means, is the answer to that one. There is no major infrastructure spend required anytime soon, and only one manageable and interest free debt to be repaid, so the club needs to survive on what it brings in.

We shouldn't need a lender if we are self-sufficient.

That's the stock answer but I doubt in practice it'll work like that. Suppose some faction think we should show 'ambition' and borrow big money from the bank using stadium land as security? I doubt there will be another set of fans playing Petrie and saying 'no, let's balance the books and settle for mediocrity.' We're football fans; dreamers and vainglorious chancers, not accountants. I think the reality is putting Dracula in charge of a blood bank. You see the factionalism now just through people criticizing the share deal. Hibs fans running the club? I don't question our passion or competence. I
just think the first will get the better of the second.

[Bostonhibby]

Don't really see what the problem is. The club are saying this scheme is great, a group of dissident fans are saying it's a rip-off. People will simply make up their own minds.

To me the key to this is Leanne Dempster and her power/role within the club. Forget the details of the scheme, it's all about the board credibility.

Rewind to a year ago: if the same proposals were announced by Farmer and Petrie in the pre-Dempster Butcher era, then most of us would have been with HOH in sentiment. (Dubious tactics and wilder contentions aside.)

Some people are (I think rightly, depending on their personal circumstances) giving this a chance as they see the board as a different animal now, and they see Dempster's (rather than Farmer and Petrie's) hand in this. I think the counter point that HOH are (awkwardly) making, is that this is not a footballing, but a financial matter.

I'm the last person in the world who would urge people NOT to put money into Hibs. I do think that people should be very cautious about the concept of 'fan ownership' in general, touted as the ultimate aim of this share issue. Fan ownership is a terrific concept, (why not have the people who care about the club owning it) and therefore it's become a bit like saving the Panda. To talk against is sacrilege.

But if fan ownership was so good, it would be far more widespread than it is. Fan who 'own' the club will have 'control' but they will also have responsibilities, particularly financial ones. They, not a multi-milionaire, will be entrusted to keep the club afloat. So there will be more share issues, more donations, more standing orders, direct debits and repayment of bank loans etc.

If you're up for all that, you certainly should proceed. If you're an old school fan who buys his ST, meets up with friends on a Saturday, goes to the game, then it's all basically over again until it becomes part of that Friday feeling, then you might want to swerve this one.

Anybody who is gullible enough to be swayed by the board of a club who have until recently been incompetence personified at our core business of football, or a group of maverick fans who, whatever their instincts, have use confused and underhand methods, deserves to be ripped off/miss the opportunity of a lifetime.

A lot of sense in there on the "0wnership" issue.

I have been steadfastly in the camp of first getting some meaningful influence through fans being able to own a significant number of shares in the new structure and cracking the monopoly of influence / control that the holding company actually have.

The only show in town offering this is the Clubs current model, I think this requires only a small leap of faith and if it did not come up with a 51% uptake in the new structure, but gave HSL or any fans buying in another way that block of shares I personally don't think it would be a disaster if it did not instantly amount to 51% or "control". I suppose there will be a variety of reasons why people will decide they want to go this way - for me its not to be a shareholder this time round as I already am one, nor is it to own the whole club, its to try and help it move to what I think could be a better place.

I've weighed that option against the other prospective suitors cases and of course the option of doing nothing and don't want to see the chance of getting more influence pass fans groups by.

The added bonus is that the funds raised should be going where the fans want, to help strengthen the playing side. I suspect many who are going down the HSL or buying shares route are clever enough to review the positions should any of the risky sounding allegations being bandied about ever be supported by evidence that can be checked.

[matty_f]

That's the stock answer but I doubt in practice it'll work like that. Suppose some faction think we should show 'ambition' and borrow big money from the bank using stadium land as security? I doubt there will be another set of fans playing Petrie and saying 'no, let's balance the books and settle for mediocrity.' We're football fans; dreamers and vainglorious chancers, not accountants. I think the reality is putting Dracula in charge of a blood bank. You see the factionalism now just through people criticizing the share deal. Hibs fans running the club? I don't question our passion or competence. I
just think the first will get the better of the second.

That's where the board of directors has to earn their corn. We're not all of a sudden going to go 'right, let's break the bank for Messi!' - there will be a board in place to run the club day to day. It won't be a case of masses of fans making demands on every decision.

[Pete]

That's where the board of directors has to earn their corn. We're not all of a sudden going to go 'right, let's break the bank for Messi!' - there will be a board in place to run the club day to day. It won't be a case of masses of fans making demands on every decision.

Exactly. This new system we are putting in place should ensure that we don't need to borrow money. We really are in a good place when it comes to infrastructure and therefore the need to take on additional funding.

Does anyone want to fight?

[Bostonhibby]

That's where the board of directors has to earn their corn. We're not all of a sudden going to go 'right, let's break the bank for Messi!' - there will be a board in place to run the club day to day. It won't be a case of masses of fans making demands on every decision.

:agree: In other businesses non exec's are meant to be there to help check and advise on the excesses of the board - worked well in banking mind :wink:

[jacomo]

We live within our means, is the answer to that one. There is no major infrastructure spend required anytime soon, and only one manageable and interest free debt to be repaid, so the club needs to survive on what it brings in.

We shouldn't need a lender if we are self-sufficient.

Sorry, I don't think it is the answer... unless you are saying 'That's it, Hibs doesn't have a safety net anymore'. That will inevitably lead to a more cautious approach to budget setting.

CWG's point about the mortgage repayments is valid, as this could work as a £500k emergency overdraft facility if absolutely necessary.

[matty_f]

Sorry, I don't think it is the answer... unless you are saying 'That's it, Hibs doesn't have a safety net anymore'. That will inevitably lead to a more cautious approach to budget setting.

CWG's point about the mortgage repayments is valid, as this could work as a £500k emergency overdraft facility if absolutely necessary.

There will be a balance, however I think the fundamental approach will be cautious- the days of chasing success by throwing money at it are long gone in Scottish football.

You look at what structure and philosophy is being put in place at the club now, it's geared at low cost, effective, sustainability. We will 'grow our own' and identify better young players earlier, and develop them.

With no problematic debt or infrastructure costs our ambitious spending, if you want to call it that, comes off the back of player sales and extra income. No Scottish club is likely to have a host of lenders eager to let them rack up debt, so our best approach is to fund ourselves.

[The Gorf]

It's not really a big problem. They're not going to derail it and they're not going to contribute themselves.

It means that the 51% will mostly be made up of down to earth, level headed, sensible Hibs fans. That'll do me.
This.

[blackpoolhibs]

If Petrie and STF are the problem here, why would we want STF as our lender of last resort? :confused:

[sambajustice]

Hibs dont have enough fans to have splinter fan groups!!

[jonty]

If Petrie and STF are the problem here, why would we want STF as our lender of last resort? :confused:

And if we're going to live within our means then why has Petries budget-balancing been an issue? :confused: :greengrin

Seriously, there are no infrastructure projects needing done. No huge capital required for stand replacements/maintenance/upgrades (corners *cough cough*).

If we cant live within our means, then its our own bloody fault.

[Malthibby]

Hibs dont have enough fans to have splinter fan groups!!

Fundemental issue this - how many fans are running about sticking anti-board posters up who we might lose
for good? Wee need every last Hibby at ER every week, infighting we can't afford.
GG

[Malthibby]

Fundemental issue this - how many fans are running about sticking anti-board posters up who we might lose
for good? Wee need every last Hibby at ER every week, infighting we can't afford.
GG:grr:

[Pete]

Fundemental issue this - how many fans are running about sticking anti-board posters up who we might lose
for good? Wee need every last Hibby at ER every week, infighting we can't afford.
GG

How many? Probably about ten.

[CropleyWasGod]

Fundemental issue this - how many fans are running about sticking anti-board posters up who we might lose
for good? Wee need every last Hibby at ER every week, infighting we can't afford.
GG
Why would we lose them? AFAIK, they are regular attenders, even under a regime they don't like.

[Peevemor]

:grr:

Freudian slip.

[Kavinho]

And if we're going to live within our means then why has Petries budget-balancing been an issue? :confused: :greengrin

Seriously, there are no infrastructure projects needing done. No huge capital required for stand replacements/maintenance/upgrades (corners *cough cough*).

If we cant live within our means, then its our own bloody fault.


"What if" we're running at full capacity/fully spending the funds we've all raised, and we find ourselves at risk of relegation (from the top flight!).
There will be undoubtedly a clamour to spend funds to improve the squad.

Funds that will have to come from the owners.... us..
i struggle to see the mechanics being in place so adequate funds can be accessed in a quick timescale.

Having no lender of last resort, or an emergency/contingency fund could be disastrous.


This is where I see the hearts ownership model failing in the future and would hate us to be following suit

[matty_f]

:grr:

:tee hee:

[jonty]

"What if" we're running at full capacity/fully spending the funds we've all raised, and we find ourselves at risk of relegation (from the top flight!).
There will be undoubtedly a clamour to spend funds to improve the squad.

Funds that will have to come from the owners.... us..
i struggle to see the mechanics being in place so adequate funds can be accessed in a quick timescale.

Having no lender of last resort, or an emergency/contingency fund could be disastrous.


This is where I see the hearts ownership model failing in the future and would hate us to be following suit

i didn't say fan ownership was the answer, but those who want STF and Petrie out of the equation might end up getting what they wish for. As you've pointed out, the grass isn't always greener.

there a fine line, but 51% fan ownership and the rest in trust/with STF/an understanding benefactor might be the right balance. But lets not bite the hand that feeds us.

[matty_f]

"What if" we're running at full capacity/fully spending the funds we've all raised, and we find ourselves at risk of relegation (from the top flight!).
There will be undoubtedly a clamour to spend funds to improve the squad.

Funds that will have to come from the owners.... us..
i struggle to see the mechanics being in place so adequate funds can be accessed in a quick timescale.

Having no lender of last resort, or an emergency/contingency fund could be disastrous.


This is where I see the hearts ownership model failing in the future and would hate us to be following suit

The thing is though, we shouldn't find ourselves in that position due to the structure that is being put in place. We should (in theory) find ourselves in a similar position to someone like Southampton, only better equipped to compete financially with all but 2 of our peers.

Sound structure with a strong squad will put us in a great position, so the need to panic buy should be diminished.

[Kavinho]

The thing is though, we shouldn't find ourselves in that position due to the structure that is being put in place. We should (in theory) find ourselves in a similar position to someone like Southampton, only better equipped to compete financially with all but 2 of our peers.

Sound structure with a strong squad will put us in a great position, so the need to panic buy should be diminished.


"Should" and "in theory" are all well and good until the reality happens and it wasn't what was expected, and you are left rooked...
see any number of financial institutions over the past few years, but for eg : Northern Rock!

Just the Risk Manager in Me! You have to try and forsee the unexpected, and provide for it, and hope you never to implement those plans..

Edit: still want greater fan involvement, and likely to go with the HSL option.

I'd argue if the fans had a controlling interest, I'd (perversely) really want to see excellent finacial prudence in place to protect me, not so much my investment, but in terms of further cash calls that I (personally) might not be able to put up..


Dare I say it, a Petrie-esque character!!!!!!!

[grunt]

It's nothing like a Ponzi scheme. The share issue is offering people membership of HSL and explaining how that money will be used. It is not pretending to be something it is not.

I think that HoH are saying that it's a Ponzi scheme because they believe that the fans' money will be used to pay STF mortgage, and that therefore our money is going to fund the payout of the existing shareholders.

That's not my view but it's my take on the HoH argument. I could of course be very, very wrong.

[matty_f]

"Should" and "in theory" are all well and good until the reality happens and it wasn't what was expected, and you are left rooked...
see any number of financial institutions over the past few years, but for eg : Northern Rock!

Just the Risk Manager in Me! You have to try and forsee the unexpected, and provide for it, and hope you never to implement those plans..

Edit: still want greater fan involvement, and likely to go with the HSL option.

I'd argue if the fans had a controlling interest, I'd (perversely) really want to see excellent finacial prudence in place to protect me, not so much my investment, but in terms of further cash calls that I (personally) might not be able to put up..


Dare I say it, a Petrie-esque character!!!!!!!

You're right, that's why I think we'll see a cautious but competitive Hibs in the future. The structure goes along with financial prudence to limit the risk. I imagine we'll see a balanced, conservative approach with future lending taken on only where every other avenue has been exhausted.

[Kavinho]

You're right, that's why I think we'll see a cautious but competitive Hibs in the future. The structure goes along with financial prudence to limit the risk. I imagine we'll see a balanced, conservative approach with future lending taken on only where every other avenue has been exhausted.

Here's hoping.. but you only have that comparative advantage for a small period of time til others caught up with the model/rebuilt their own infrastructure or whatever.

Then what.... ? It takes no time at all for fans of a struggling club to ask or demand the owners for investment in the squad. .


This is where I'm hoping / convincing myself that the foh model becomes unstuck. They cant sport their ambitions, but cant collectively afford to dig any deeper, leading to walk aways and cancelled dds, and it becomes harder to meet the original ambitions....

[schinkenotto]

[QUOTE=Malthibby;4284996]Fundemental issue this If Hibs" need" financially illiterate and morally bankrupt people,with personal agendas like these,we might as well close te gates.

[SunshineOnLeith]

I think that HoH are saying that it's a Ponzi scheme because they believe that the fans' money will be used to pay STF mortgage, and that therefore our money is going to fund the payout of the existing shareholders.

That's not my view but it's my take on the HoH argument. I could of course be very, very wrong.

HOH are saying it's a Ponzi scheme because they're idiots.

[marinello59]

HOH are saying it's a Ponzi scheme because they're idiots.

I don't think they are idiots, they're Trots. :greengrin

[Pretty Boy]

The latest stuff HoH and Holyrood Boxing have posted on Facebook is a total disgrace.

If I were STF I would be saying enough is enough and getting my lawyers involved. Thankfully he seems far more willing to treat them as the irrelevance they are than I am.

[truehibernian]

The latest stuff HoH and Holyrood Boxing have posted on Facebook is a total disgrace.

If I were STF I would be saying enough is enough and getting my lawyers involved. Thankfully he seems far more willing to treat them as the irrelevance they are than I am.

One of them absolutely thrives on reputation and local 'celebrity' as you no doubt know PB - - that is what I would do :wink: jeez you didn't even see him at ER for years..........I fully expected Danny Dyer to be on the recent poster campaign......'Bridge of Doom' :faf::faf::faf: never heard it called that in my Hibs supporting puff :aok: when I watched that episode he made Moredun sound like The Wire :greengrin it's been one of the most peaceful areas in the city for years :agree: can't beat someone who havers though :cb

[Gerard]

The latest stuff HoH and Holyrood Boxing have posted on Facebook is a total disgrace.

If I were STF I would be saying enough is enough and getting my lawyers involved. Thankfully he seems far more willing to treat them as the irrelevance they are than I am.

I think that STF is not going to waste his money on lawyers. I think that HOH should stand down as they have nothing positive to add to OUR CLUB.

[Dashing Bob S]

"What if" we're running at full capacity/fully spending the funds we've all raised, and we find ourselves at risk of relegation (from the top flight!).
There will be undoubtedly a clamour to spend funds to improve the squad.

Funds that will have to come from the owners.... us..
i struggle to see the mechanics being in place so adequate funds can be accessed in a quick timescale.

Having no lender of last resort, or an emergency/contingency fund could be disastrous.


This is where I see the hearts ownership model failing in the future and would hate us to be following suit

I agree that there is the potential for this to happen and also that the Hearts scheme is unstable and has no other plan but to keep coming back to the fans for money.

I'm not trying to piss on parades here - heaven knows we have the right to be optimistic after lurching from one disaster to another for most of the last decade. But let's be realistic about just what's on offer and what it means in the long and mid terms.

To me this has come too early. We're moving forward and stablising the club with two financially prudent figures at the top who have gone a long way to restoring their reps, and an imaginative CEO and bright manager and coaching staff. Don't see the issue about carrying on from that basis. Thank you for the write off STF, but do we need this right now?

[NadeAteMyLunch!]

The latest stuff HoH and Holyrood Boxing have posted on Facebook is a total disgrace.

If I were STF I would be saying enough is enough and getting my lawyers involved. Thankfully he seems far more willing to treat them as the irrelevance they are than I am.

It's absolutely disgusting. Utter lack of respect for the guy who saved us all those years ago. We are all in agreement that STF and Petrie have not done enough for a long time now, however the approach they have taken is sickening.

Wonder how they would feel if we were to get some sad news about STF, like last weeks news about DC. Repulsive behaviour.

[hibees 7062]

They're meeting tomorrow in the Famous Five stand at 6.30

[truehibernian]

They're meeting tomorrow in the Famous Five stand at 6.30

.....hud me back................:faf:

Sounds like a really really horrendous version of Oceans 11 :greengrin

[hibees 7062]

.....hud me back................:faf:

Sounds like a really really horrendous version of Oceans 11 :greengrin

Yea no gone then :greengrin

[truehibernian]

....I've also got visions of Simon Pia leading a rally cry in post modern Jacobite fashion with white cockade and green feathers in his hat.........validating the ruffians around him with his presence, wisdom and prose :faf:

[FranckSuzy]

Just saw this comment from HoH on Facebook:

What the actual.....? Their whole campaign is "insulting and provocative"!

"Just a reminder HOH are happy to engage with Hibs fans however people making insulting and provocative posts are wasting their time. People will notice we do not go on other Hibs fans groups pages abusing them. That is because we respect their right to support the Board and Tom Farmer. All we ask is that they respect our right to campaign for change. Thank you.

[truehibernian]

Yea no gone then :greengrin

River City's on bud :greengrin:faf:

[truehibernian]

Just saw this comment from HoH on Facebook:

What the actual.....? Their whole campaign is "insulting and provocative"!

"Just a reminder HOH are happy to engage with Hibs fans however people making insulting and provocative posts are wasting their time. People will notice we do not go on other Hibs fans groups pages abusing them. That is because we respect their right to support the Board and Tom Farmer. All we ask is that they respect our right to campaign for change. Thank you.

Happy to fly-post libellous comments around the city however :aok:

Aye okay then boys :greengrin

[CropleyWasGod]

They're meeting tomorrow in the Famous Five stand at 6.30
So the shareholders can stand at the windows of the West Stand and flick the V's at them? [emoji1]

[FranckSuzy]

Happy to fly-post libellous comments around the city however :aok:

Aye okay then boys :greengrin

Exactly :rolleyes:

[Pretty Boy]

They're meeting tomorrow in the Famous Five stand at 6.30

I'm meeting someone there before the AGM at that time.

Wonder if I'll be invited for one of their 'conversations'.

[hibees 7062]

So the shareholders can stand at the windows of the West Stand and flick the V's at them? [emoji1]

:faf:

[blackpoolhibs]

Just saw this comment from HoH on Facebook:

What the actual.....? Their whole campaign is "insulting and provocative"!

"Just a reminder HOH are happy to engage with Hibs fans however people making insulting and provocative posts are wasting their time. People will notice we do not go on other Hibs fans groups pages abusing them. That is because we respect their right to support the Board and Tom Farmer. All we ask is that they respect our right to campaign for change. Thank you.

Campaign for change. :faf: I have never seen so much change in my life at Hibs, this lot are only making themselves look more and more stupid with each outburst.

I actually laugh now when they make their statements, they have made themselves an irrelevance. :greengrin

[Scouse Hibee]

Just saw this comment from HoH on Facebook:

What the actual.....? Their whole campaign is "insulting and provocative"!

"Just a reminder HOH are happy to engage with Hibs fans however people making insulting and provocative posts are wasting their time. People will notice we do not go on other Hibs fans groups pages abusing them. That is because we respect their right to support the Board and Tom Farmer. All we ask is that they respect our right to campaign for change. Thank you.

I find the massive ego of the " Son of Edinburgh" highly amusing to be honest. Great marketing for his business though!

[EskbankHibby]

I agree that there is the potential for this to happen and also that the Hearts scheme is unstable and has no other plan but to keep coming back to the fans for money.

I'm not trying to piss on parades here - heaven knows we have the right to be optimistic after lurching from one disaster to another for most of the last decade. But let's be realistic about just what's on offer and what it means in the long and mid terms.

To me this has come too early. We're moving forward and stablising the club with two financially prudent figures at the top who have gone a long way to restoring their reps, and an imaginative CEO and bright manager and coaching staff. Don't see the issue about carrying on from that basis. Thank you for the write off STF, but do we need this right now?

I know what you are saying but we will not be buying the 51% available for majority fan ownership anytime soon IMO.

The frame work is in place for eventual majority community/fan ownership and I think it is what some people were demanding - an exit strategy. Seems to me it's more mid to long term but so be it.

In the meantime we supplement club income and gradually chip away at the 51% which, unless I've misunderstood, gives us more than half dibs on £20m+ of assets for £2.5m (to be clear I am not suggesting this is anything other than emotional investment just illustrating it's not a bad deal).

I am also reticent about fan ownership and the intricacies of how it will pan out from an operational perspective. Hopefully it ensures the club will never again be as vulnerable as we were pre STF or as The Rangers are now with their ownership structure.

[truehibernian]

I find the massive ego of the " Son of Edinburgh" highly amusing to be honest. Great marketing for his business though!

Sadly SH that is what it's all about.......a couple of them I had not seen at ER for yonks.......some of their family members certainly, but they are never Hibees in my eyes........certainly a couple of them never invested their cash going to games until perhaps reputations were on the wane.......that's what makes it 1) laughable and 2) utterly hypocritical for me:agree:

Attention seeking, self serving and just a local promotion vehicle for some, using Hibs as a means to advertise themselves............

I'm not joking when I say I wouldn't be surprised to see a really low budget TV show about this 'campaign' on Bravo.........

[Danderhall Hibs]

I can't get into twitter just now (is it down?) - what did they say on there that's "disgraceful"?

[Pretty Boy]

I did find it quite funny that in an argument on Facebook someone was accused of lacking the intelligence to take HoH on. In the next sentence they misspelled focus.

[FranckSuzy]

I did find it quite funny that in an argument on Facebook someone was accused of lacking the intelligence to take HoH on. In the next sentence they misspelled focus.

It is quite complicated, to be fair :agree: :greengrin

[Bostonhibby]

I don't think they are idiots, they're Trots. :greengrin
Trots know their ponzis [emoji1]

[Pretty Boy]

I can't get into twitter just now (is it down?) - what did they say on there that's "disgraceful"?

I've been as critical of RP as anyone and, to a lesser extent, STF.

Using phrases like 'morally repugnant', that it's not in Tom Farmers DNA to be a 'hero' and he'd rather run a 'ponzi scheme' and accusing him of being a 'man only of money' with a 'warped sense of reality' is digraceful imo.

They might also want to familiarise themselves with the law regarding why the media aren't allowed to be present at the start of the AGM rather than throw more unfounded accusations about 'media manipulation' around.

[matty_f]

I did find it quite funny that in an argument on Facebook someone was accused of lacking the intelligence to take HoH on. In the next sentence they misspelled focus.

Think that might have been on Twitter last night, they certainly tweeted along those lines to me.

[Pretty Boy]

Think that might have been on Twitter last night, they certainly tweeted along those lines to me.

Na this is a someone else lacking the intelligence to talk with them, it's not just you who falls short in that department apparently. I did enjoy following Twitter last night though.

[matty_f]

Na this is a someone else lacking the intelligence to talk with them, it's not just you who falls short in that department apparently. I did enjoy following Twitter last night though.

At least I'm not alone in being an idiot, I can take comfort in that. :greengrin

[jacomo]

I think that HoH are saying that it's a Ponzi scheme because they believe that the fans' money will be used to pay STF mortgage, and that therefore our money is going to fund the payout of the existing shareholders.

That's not my view but it's my take on the HoH argument. I could of course be very, very wrong.

Well then they are wrong twice over.

1. A Ponzi scheme is a deception. With Hibs, the scheme has been set out in some detail. You can choose whether or not to get involved, but it's not pretending to be something else.
2. If STF wanted our money, why didn't he just say 'I will sell 51% of the shares for £2.5m? That's the price.' BuyHibs were asking him to name his price - no one expected him to gift half the shares.

[NadeAteMyLunch!]

Campaign for change. :faf: I have never seen so much change in my life at Hibs, this lot are only making themselves look more and more stupid with each outburst.

I actually laugh now when they make their statements, they have made themselves an irrelevance. :greengrin

It's comical isn't it. They've clearly decided at a meeting months ago that they 'won't stop until Farmer and Petrie are out'. They now feel that they need to stick to this, regardless of what else happens.

We could sign Messi tomorrow on an undisclosed fee and these helmets would be demanding to know the exact price we paid for him. It's all about transparency and that eh. Actual idiots

[CropleyWasGod]

Any ideas what this Tweet is about? From Holyrood Boxing Gym.

Big thanks to administrators at Hibs.net for contacting me and their support! Sorry to learn of "split in camp" #grssisgreener

[FranckSuzy]

Any ideas what this is about?

Big thanks to administrators at http://t.co/9UkKPojgRn for contacting me and their support! Sorry to learn of "split in camp" #grssisgreener

:confused: The link takes you to, erm, Hibs.net... Weird. Also, "grss"...? Bizarre.

[CropleyWasGod]

:confused: The link takes you to, erm, Hibs.net... Weird. Also, "grss"...? Bizarre.
Yeah. I have edited my post. The Tweet said Hibs.net

[FranckSuzy]

Yeah. I have edited my post. The Tweet said Hibs.net

:aok:

[matty_f]

Any ideas what this Tweet is about? From Holyrood Boxing Gym.

Big thanks to administrators at Hibs.net for contacting me and their support! Sorry to learn of "split in camp" #grssisgreener

No idea. For the avoidance of doubt there is no split, and while I can't speak for the entire admin team I can say that I've yet to see an admin back Hands on Hibs, and even if they did it wouldn't matter because hibs.net does not have an editorial stance and as such each admin can take whichever side they choose/take no sides/change their mind on an hourly basis, if they so choose.

We certainly don't ''split" when we disagree on a subject.

[truehibernian]

No idea. For the avoidance of doubt there is no split, and while I can't speak for the entire admin team I can say that I've yet to see an admin back Hands on Hibs, and even if they did it wouldn't matter because hibs.net does not have an editorial stance and as such each admin can take whichever side they choose/take no sides/change their mind on an hourly basis, if they so choose.

We certainly don't ''split" when we disagree on a subject.

All boils down to credibility for me Matty.........STF and Rod have never sampled an HMP bacon roll, and neither have been a media spin doctor for an MP who fell foul to a 'donations' row.........mind that ended after a few months so it was a right short political gravy train......more a wee tram stop :greengrin yet they argue that both our boys are at the lash :faf:

Couldn't make it up......well, unless you were supported by a famous novel writing Hibee who likes a yarn :cb:greengrin

Credibility....................................... .................

[CentreLine]

Any ideas what this Tweet is about? From Holyrood Boxing Gym.

Big thanks to administrators at Hibs.net for contacting me and their support! Sorry to learn of "split in camp" #grssisgreener

So, there's a split in the HOH camp and hibs.net admin have been in touch to show support.
Misinformation has long been the friend of the activist

[Pretty Boy]

Any ideas what this Tweet is about? From Holyrood Boxing Gym.

Big thanks to administrators at Hibs.net for contacting me and their support! Sorry to learn of "split in camp" #grssisgreener

Classic tactics. Obviously .net has become the new target for them. I look forward to seeing my face on a lampost on Saturday.

In serious it is actually a tad worrying that they seem to be becoming increasingly unhinged and personal. They are reverting to type now and becoming quite nasty.

Still better people than them have tried to take on .net and we're still here.

Also quite amusing they have a go at us because Frank Dougan is getting pelters on here (he's not btw) yet Holyrood Boxings own Facebook page tore him apart and called him a 'hand picked patsy' last night. Ypu couldn't parody these people, they are ****ing clueless.

[CentreLine]

Classic tactics. Obviously .net has become the new target for them. I look forward to seeing my face on a lampost on Saturday.

In serious it is actually a tad worrying that they seem to be becoming increasingly unhinged and personal. They are reverting to type now and becoming quite nasty.

Still better people than them have tried to take on .net and we're still here.

Also quite amusing they have a go at us because Frank Dougan is getting pelters on here (he's not btw) yet Holyrood Boxings own Facebook page tore him apart and called him a 'hand picked patsy' last night. Ypu couldn't parody these people, they are ****ing clueless.

I don't think they are clueless. They have learned well from the lessons of Hermann Georing if you ask me. They thrive on publicity making out they are larger and more important as a group than they are. It is no accident that they are quoted on here with rhetorical questions just to publicise their cause.

But it is most interesting that they are telling us that they have a split in their camp.

[Pretty Boy]

I don't think they are clueless. They have learned well from the lessons of Hermann Georing if you ask me. They thrive on publicity making out they are larger and more important as a group than they are. It is no accident that they are quoted on here with rhetorical questions just to publicise their cause.

But it is most interesting that they are telling us that they have a split in their camp.

I think the Tweet was suggesting there is a split in the camp on .net. That's how I read it anyway.

And if they were right it wouldn't really concern me, everyone is entitled to their opinion on here. Unlike their Facebook and Twitter pages were comments they disagree with are deleted regularly.

[Iain G]

I did find it quite funny that in an argument on Facebook someone was accused of lacking the intelligence to take HoH on. In the next sentence they misspelled focus.

Did they spell it as Escort? :-)

[Sergio sledge]

Yes but you read it wrong didn't you :devil:

There is definitely a split in the HOH camp. Some of their number have come round to realising that the HSL option actually has merit. What they are saying in public is very different to what is being said privately. Believe me

To be fair, Jackie McNamara was a supporter of HoH at the start but is now on the board of HSL, so the idea of a split could be a go-er. I do find it funny that he is never mentioned on any of their posters, despite the fact they name all the other HSL board members. Obviously don't want to acknowledge that someone from their side has seen merit in the HSL scheme.

[greenginger]

I agree that there is the potential for this to happen and also that the Hearts scheme is unstable and has no other plan but to keep coming back to the fans for money.

I'm not trying to piss on parades here - heaven knows we have the right to be optimistic after lurching from one disaster to another for most of the last decade. But let's be realistic about just what's on offer and what it means in the long and mid terms.

To me this has come too early. We're moving forward and stablising the club with two financially prudent figures at the top who have gone a long way to restoring their reps, and an imaginative CEO and bright manager and coaching staff. Don't see the issue about carrying on from that basis. Thank you for the write off STF, but do we need this right now?


If not right now , when ?

We still have the problem of succession after STF. They have been looking for a suitable high worth, trusted investor to replace our owner for years without success, and all that has come forward is a bunch of chancers like Low and others.

Anyway, maybe this fan ownership launch was a condition Dempster had when she took on the roll as CEO.

[CallumLaidlaw]

I think the Tweet was suggesting there is a split in the camp on .net. That's how I read it anyway.

And if they were right it wouldn't really concern me, everyone is entitled to their opinion on here. Unlike their Facebook and Twitter pages were comments they disagree with are deleted regularly.

They are right tho. There is a massive split. Look at the huge numbers that are backing HoH and Buyhibs on here - http://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?297589-Who-are-you-likely-to-support-regarding-club-ownership

[FranckSuzy]

I think the Tweet was suggesting there is a split in the camp on .net. That's how I read it anyway.

And if they were right it wouldn't really concern me, everyone is entitled to their opinion on here. Unlike their Facebook and Twitter pages were comments they disagree with are deleted regularly.

:agree: Me too. Otherwise, why would they say they were "sorry to hear that", if it was about HoH, i.e., them? :confused: :greengrin

[CentreLine]

:agree: Me too. Otherwise, why would they say they were "sorry to hear that", if it was about HoH, i.e., them? :confused: :greengrin

If you were running a campaign and people were jumping ship you would be sorry to hear that too. Nope, don't see any mileage in promoting their arguments. HOH are split End Of.........But you can be sure that one faction will have a stunt at ER tonight in an attempt to take the limelight off the AGM. They are getting desperate.

Unity is the name of the game and HFC are winning that back slowly but surely :flag:

[FranckSuzy]

If you were running a campaign and people were jumping ship you would be sorry to hear that too. Nope, don't see any mileage in promoting their arguments. HOH are split End Of.........But you can be sure that one faction will have a stunt at ER tonight in an attempt to take the limelight off the AGM. They are getting desperate.

Unity is the name of the game and HFC are winning that back slowly but surely :flag:


I get what you are saying but my thinking is that if it was about you or your group, you'd surely already know and not be "surprised to hear it".

[CentreLine]

I get what you are saying but my thinking is that if it was about you or your group, you'd surely already know and not be "surprised to hear it".

Does it matter if its all made up :wink:

[Mathias Jack]

I notice (via twitter) HOH have come out against the HSL initiative today. No real surprise, as to endorse it, complete disempowers them. What is troubling me more if the deeply negative and nasty nature of the tone of their communications.

They are basically implying now that this scheme is a scam. To me, this group, set up to be a group of activists to seek truth and justice for Hibs (my take on their original intent)...have embarrassed themselves through a whole suite of wild claims.. None of these have turned out to be true. In fact, the HSL proposal makes specific commitments on the future ownership of the ground and academy..

I am tired by their agenda now. It feels much more about their ego, than what is right for our football club. They need to think deeply about what they wanted to achieve, and assess it against what HSL is setting about to do...just because it's not their way, doesn't mean it won't create the right outcome...if they continue on this path of divisive communication, it will do nothing to create unity across Hibs fans...Stick to doing community good, such as the food bank collection (amazing achievement!), as your attempts to get involved in the ownership affairs of our clubs are far from helpful or constructive.

If any HOH activities wants to discuss this one to one feel free to PM me...as currently, I have no sense you are doing anything helpful for our club.

This ^^^^^^ :top marks

Unfollowed and unliked their pathetic whinge of a page on Facebook. Sick of the whiny and moany posts, rarely anything positive on it. Rather than promote the positives about they are trying to achieve, all I hear is negativity.

While being relegated is right up there with being one of my lowest memories; what's going on on and off the field right now has me proper buzzing again about the club I love.

If anyone from HOH is reading this...please....NO MORE NEGATIVITY!

[Dashing Bob S]

]If not right now , when ?[/B]

We still have the problem of succession after STF. They have been looking for a suitable high worth, trusted investor to replace our owner for years without success, and all that has come forward is a bunch of chancers like Low and others.

Anyway, maybe this fan ownership launch was a condition Dempster had when she took on the roll as CEO.

1. When we're back in the SPL would have been my choice.

2. I think this is crux of the matter.

3. Would doubt it would be a condition; would be surprised if it wasn't a strategy she had mooted to the board at the interview.

[Borderhibbie76]

Have to say club legend or not whats Pat Stanton all about. ..ive got a sore neck with all his switching sides...now firmly sitting on fence according to todays EEN

[Dashing Bob S]

Have to say club legend or not whats Pat Stanton all about. ..ive got a sore neck with all his switching sides...now firmly sitting on fence according to todays EEN

He also said people should think carefully about it, which is undoubtedly the best advice.

[Andy74]

What is The Scotsman up to continuing to give credence to such small groups? This is damaging us now and I wish they'd all realise what they are doing and shut the hell up.

[greenginger]

1. When we're back in the SPL would have been my choice.

2. I think this is crux of the matter.

3. Would doubt it would be a condition; would be surprised if it wasn't a strategy she had mooted to the board at the interview.


The Company Resolution amending the Club Articles increasing the the share capital was signed by Jamie Marwick on 12th January 2014, so it was discussed by the board in 2013.

Don't know when her first interview was , but she does seem keen on fan involvement , despite the added workload it brings.

[seanshow]

What is The Scotsman up to continuing to give credence to such small groups? This is damaging us now and I wish they'd all realise what they are doing and shut the hell up.

Forth1 have also been running a pretty negative news story all day on the hour regarding the Agm,
disharmony, protests and warning posters on lamp posts around edinburgh apparently

[Pete]

Forth1 have also been running a pretty negative news story all day on the hour regarding the Agm,
disharmony, protests and warning posters on lamp posts around edinburgh apparently

Sir Tom and the club could totally neuter this mob on every level so maybe they should start doing so before their message of negativity effects take-up.

Maybe the subject could be brought up? They won't be reasoned with.

[Iain G]

What is The Scotsman up to continuing to give credence to such small groups? This is damaging us now and I wish they'd all realise what they are doing and shut the hell up.

I see Paul Kane has appeared from under his stone to add his tuppenceworth, not one of them the brains to take a step back and see the damage they are doing to the club, never mind their own credibility. Its sad and pathetic now :-(

[21.05.2016]

I'm really getting sick of the HOH group, they seem determined to create a divide and a war between the club and the fans and put a negative twist on everything the club do in order to achieve this. As someone mentioned already, they have lost a lot of support as it now no longer seems they are fighting for the best interests of the club but instead causing unneeded and unwanted problems.

I'm pleased with how our club has changed since relegation last year. It's by no means perfect but we have taken significant strides forward and the moral is up again but with HOH hanging around it's only causing divide when we really should be united together to take the club forward. Its almost as if HOH are wanting the board to cock up so they can give it "i told you so".

[JimBHibees]

Forth1 have also been running a pretty negative news story all day on the hour regarding the Agm,
disharmony, protests and warning posters on lamp posts around edinburgh apparently

Yep all the recent objections to the share issue were outlined in their morning sports bulletins including Kano's pearls of wisdom this morning..

[Golden Bear]

Hands on Hibs are more political activists than they are football fans.

Down with the shameful Capitalists who continually exploit the working classes seems to be their main message. Come the revolution everything will be fine and dandy I'm sure.

:blah:

[marinello59]

Yep all the recent objections to the share issue were outlined in their morning sports bulletins including Kano's pearls of wisdom this morning..

A handful of people wearing various different hats and shouting the same flawed message as loud as they can.

[Smartie]

What's Kano been saying?

[schinkenotto]

What's Kano been saying?

Usual incoherent mince!

[marinello59]

What's Kano been saying?

Concentrating on the same 5 mill figure in isolation, just like HoH etc .
I wonder why he is wearing his Former Players Association hat now though rather than his BuyHibs director one. :confused:

[marinello59]

Why is it that Paul Kane is referred to as "chairman of Hibs Former Players’ Association" in the article and not "director of buyhibs". Maybe HoH were confused and this is the split they're talking about?

Does buyhibs even exist any more or is it just one guy?

I've just wondered that as well. :greengrin
There does seem to be a split there though.

[kaimendhibs]

Not much I can do to stop the dissenters except to buy my season ticket as I always do and subscribe to HSL. I intend to do both. If these groups can't see the improvements at all levels I am not gonna try and persuade them.

[Mikey]

Not much I can do to stop the dissenters except by me except to buy my season ticket as I always do and subscribe to HSL. I intend to do both. If these groups can't see the improvements at all levels I am not gonna try and persuade them.

I was discussing that with someone earlier. Their antics could be the catalyst that brings the rest of us together and brings about a siege mentality.

It's our club they're dragging down here.

[bigwheel]

I was discussing that with someone earlier. Their antics could be the catalyst that brings the rest of us together and bring about a siege mentality.

It's our club they're dragging down here.


100% agree with this - those who really care, will act in support of the club, not in a divisive manner..

[Pete]

I was discussing that with someone earlier. Their antics could be the catalyst that brings the rest of us together and brings about a siege mentality.

It's our club they're dragging down here.

I really, really hope so.

[ancient hibee]

Tired of reading in the press that HOH and BuyHibs are fans group.They wouldn't combine to fill a taxi.The numpties are being used by people who want to pick up Hibs for nothing .

[madhatter]

I was discussing that with someone earlier. Their antics could be the catalyst that brings the rest of us together and bring about a siege mentality.

It's our club they're dragging down here.

I wholeheartedly agree. I can fully understand why some sections are in 'doom' and 'gloom' mode but the incessant digs at club hierarchy and the club itself needs to be controlled and kept to a minimum now.

The thing every Hibs fan needs to ask themselves is: if I do not back something, if I do not instil positivity about Hibs at least in family circles, if I do not support the club in any way I can, if I do not do all of these and more, will there be a Hibernian FC in the future? Will we be a big team or a small team? and so on...

I think it's getting to the point where most fans need to realise when we believe in nothing, we fall for anything. Believe in something and run with it, positivity generally breeds positivity and the exact opposite goes for the polar equivalent.

[emerald green]

Did anyone else see the big trailer travelling through Edinburgh early this morning with huge placards on either side proclaiming something along the following lines. I didn't manage to catch all the stuff on the placards, as I was on a bus going in the opposite direction as it went past but it went something like this:

"Its a shakedown. Not community ownership. It's a donation to a multi-millionaire". The thing that also got me was it had the Hibernian FC crest alongside this garbage too.

This stuff is really sad, pointless IMHO, and frustrating. Just when things are beginning to turn for the better for my/our club.:grr:

[madhatter]

Did anyone else see the big trailer travelling through Edinburgh early this morning with huge placards on either side proclaiming something along the following lines. I didn't manage to catch all the stuff on the placards, as I was on a bus going in the opposite direction as it went past but it went something like this:

"Its a shakedown. Not community ownership. It's a donation to a multi-millionaire". The thing that also got me was it had the Hibernian FC crest alongside this garbage too.

This stuff is really sad, pointless IMHO, and frustrating. Just when things are beginning to turn for the better for my/our club.:grr:

One word for those placards and the scheme behind it:

Shameful.

I'm glad I didn't see it. I would have been raging.

[ancient hibee]

These things cost money-where is it coming from?

[Just Alf]

Re all the press stuff they're doing, Surely someone could point them ( the press ) to the vote on here? I'd guess the Bounce would be similar?

[emerald green]

One word for those placards and the scheme behind it:

Shameful.

I'm glad I didn't see it. I would have been raging.

:agree:

[s.a.m]

Did anyone else see the big trailer travelling through Edinburgh early this morning with huge placards on either side proclaiming something along the following lines. I didn't manage to catch all the stuff on the placards, as I was on a bus going in the opposite direction as it went past but it went something like this:

"Its a shakedown. Not community ownership. It's a donation to a multi-millionaire". The thing that also got me was it had the Hibernian FC crest alongside this garbage too.

This stuff is really sad, pointless IMHO, and frustrating. Just when things are beginning to turn for the better for my/our club.:grr:

Saw it in George St yesterday. Sad, infantile *******s.

[DownInAlbion]

It seems the majority of posters on here oppose the statements from buy hibs and HOH, I've talked to a few folk about the matter and only one of my lets say easily influenced pals is against the community ownership. I think the best thing we ( the majority ) can do is to stay positive about the proposal and when the oppertunity arises invest all we can realistically afford into HSL, if we do this we can keep moving forward as well as we are at the moment.

[jacomo]

If not right now , when ?

We still have the problem of succession after STF. They have been looking for a suitable high worth, trusted investor to replace our owner for years without success, and all that has come forward is a bunch of chancers like Low and others.

Anyway, maybe this fan ownership launch was a condition Dempster had when she took on the roll as CEO.

Ideally, Hibs should have pushed this back until we were back in the top flight.

We are financially unsustainable in this League, and it would have been better for the share issue to happen at a time when expenditure and revenues are better balanced. It also would have improved sentiment around the club.

Still, we are where we are and STF decided to push ahead. So long as we do get promoted, it will probably turn out ok.

[Borderhibbie76]

Tired of reading in the press that HOH and BuyHibs are fans group.They wouldn't combine to fill a taxi.The numpties are being used by people who want to pick up Hibs for nothing .

I sent a tweet complaining to EEN earlier about why are they giving these minorities such coverage when the vast majority of Hibees disagree completely with their stance

[Just Alf]

I sent a tweet complaining to EEN earlier about why are they giving these minorities such coverage when the vast majority of Hibees disagree completely with their stance

Top man! :aok:

[WillowbraeHibby]

Top man! :aok:

:aok:

[monktonharp]

I sent a tweet complaining to EEN earlier about why are they giving these minorities such coverage when the vast majority of Hibees disagree completely with their stance? whats their stance? are Hibs making a perfect job of things, suddenly after a group of fans decided to try and take things forward for their club. you seem to think a Hibs fans, or the biggest majority, are actually hibs.netters. is that it?

[Andy74]

? whats their stance? are Hibs making a perfect job of things, suddenly after a group of fans decided to try and take things forward for their club. you seem to think a Hibs fans, or the biggest majority, are actually hibs.netters. is that it?

Eh?

[DaveF]

? whats their stance? are Hibs making a perfect job of things, suddenly after a group of fans decided to try and take things forward for their club. you seem to think a Hibs fans, or the biggest majority, are actually hibs.netters. is that it?

The poster didn't say anything like that!

[kaimendhibs]

Handing the club to a Celtc fan for absolutely nowt, wow, what a plan that was

[Eyrie]

What is The Scotsman up to continuing to give credence to such small groups? This is damaging us now and I wish they'd all realise what they are doing and shut the hell up.

It's Bathgate, which puts the article in proper perspective. The same Bathgate who was all in favour of Save Hearts In Trouble and peddled the "it wisnae us" lie on their behalf.

He bangs on about £5m, overlooking that we have to repay that sum interest free over a longer term than the £9.5m loan plus interest which the £5m replaces.

Think Glen Ross has links to Simon Pia as well.

[Borderhibbie76]

? whats their stance? are Hibs making a perfect job of things, suddenly after a group of fans decided to try and take things forward for their club. you seem to think a Hibs fans, or the biggest majority, are actually hibs.netters. is that it?

i never said that mate...what i said was they are giving coverage to these minorities and its not representative of the majority view....though you wouldnt know it from listening to radio forth or reading EEN. And yes, I do believe we are seeing the beginnings of positive change at our club and im happy to put my faith in Dempster and Stubbs.

[Pete]

"Hibs.net says no to HSL ponzi scheme"

:cool2:

[marinello59]

"Hibs.net says no to HSL ponzi scheme"

:cool2:

I had a wee chuckle at that one earlier. :greengrin

[matty_f]

"Hibs.net says no to HSL ponzi scheme"

:cool2:

Decent banter. :greengrin

[Jonnyboy]

It's Bathgate, which puts the article in proper perspective. The same Bathgate who was all in favour of Save Hearts In Trouble and peddled the "it wisnae us" lie on their behalf.

He bangs on about £5m, overlooking that we have to repay that sum interest free over a longer term than the £9.5m loan plus interest which the £5m replaces.

Think Glen Ross has links to Simon Pia as well.

:agree: United in their intense dislike of STF

[CallumLaidlaw]

It's Bathgate, which puts the article in proper perspective. The same Bathgate who was all in favour of Save Hearts In Trouble and peddled the "it wisnae us" lie on their behalf.

He bangs on about £5m, overlooking that we have to repay that sum interest free over a longer term than the £9.5m loan plus interest which the £5m replaces.

Think Glen Ross has links to Simon Pia as well.

My twitter conversation with Bathgate earlier (well, his answers)

Hi @laidlawjock, we're happy to reflect all shades of opinion. Can chat at the agm if time. We've given Hibs 1,000s of words recently to explain their plans. And we've also offered them a page for their own article (ie not an interview). But a 22-page thread on http://hibs.net shows that some fans are paying a lot of attention to @HandsOnHibs even if a lot of it is critical. And my piece today did say that 700 Hibs fans (the club's own number) have expressed an interest in HSL. Also, the quality of an argument may be more important than the number of people who support it at any one time. If the club says how much was paid to the bank, maybe more fans would feel happy about paying £5m to holding company?

[madhatter]

My twitter conversation with Bathgate earlier (well, his answers)

Hi @laidlawjock, we're happy to reflect all shades of opinion. Can chat at the agm if time. We've given Hibs 1,000s of words recently to explain their plans. And we've also offered them a page for their own article (ie not an interview). But a 22-page thread on http://hibs.net shows that some fans are paying a lot of attention to @HandsOnHibs even if a lot of it is critical. And my piece today did say that 700 Hibs fans (the club's own number) have expressed an interest in HSL. Also, the quality of an argument may be more important than the number of people who support it at any one time. If the club says how much was paid to the bank, maybe more fans would feel happy about paying £5m to holding company?


This last part, I do not understand because what he is saying and is suggesting most fans understanding is: that we would be better off paying the bank debt (and interest) rather than paying back £5m to holding company. Also there seems to be a massive misconception of the club owing £5m to holding company and the fans owing it. I would imagine we would have slightly more than 700 fans (£12k approx a month at minimum rate) interested. We need to big our club up and stop letting these people destroy it.

Interesting how media, MPs, bankers and so on backed Hearts takeover and there wasn't as much in media about "where is the money going?". These people want the club to fail as far as I'm concerned. Lazy journalism as well.

[Dashing Bob S]

It seems the majority of posters on here oppose the statements from buy hibs and HOH, I've talked to a few folk about the matter and only one of my lets say easily influenced pals is against the community ownership. I think the best thing we ( the majority ) can do is to stay positive about the proposal and when the oppertunity arises invest all we can realistically afford into HSL, if we do this we can keep moving forward as well as we are at the moment.

Absolutely. If the deal really is that sweet, then people will invest despite the criticisms from some maverick fans groups. I think at the heart of it a lot of people are riled because they want to believe in this more than they actually do, and resent their private fears being publicly aired.

I'll probably even invest in it myself, out of a strange combination of blind loyalty to the club and a belief that Dempster is on the level. However, when I sit down and look at the deal and its timings, read Petrie's latest musings and think through the broader issue of the fan ownership provided by this initiative, I'm convinced by it less and less.

However, my overriding reason for supporting it is that I genuinely can't see any viable alternatives on the horizon. None of the supporters groups criticising it are offering one. So I'm a negative Yes, who desperately wishes he could be a positive Yes.

But I think we need to dispense with personal attacks, whether it be regarding HOH spokespersons or admins on this board. No objections to STF/Petrie taking fan criticism - many here are still angry at them, and they both know the score about how fans of a football club are, so I seriously doubt it'll bother either of them. But the bottom line is that the supporters all want the best for Hibs and have to move forward together, whatever way we eventually choose to do that.

[Pete]

HOH guys moaning on Twitter about not having their questions answered, the abusive tone of the other fans and the lack of calm head and dialogue from Sir Tom and Rod.

I wasn't there but are they correct in feeling hard done by?

[Pretty Boy]

HOH guys moaning on Twitter about not having their questions answered, the abusive tone of the other fans and the lack of calm head and dialogue from Sir Tom and Rod.

I wasn't there but are they correct in feeling hard done by?

I wouldn't say they can feel hard done by as none of them really asked a question. The first guy to speak asked if the share issue could be delayed. When asked why he got a bit ranty rather than giving coherent arguments or reasoning. Paul Kane was also a bit ranty although in his defence he seemed the nost genuine of those who spoke. Simon Pia was just embarassing. He ranted for a good 2 or 3 minutes despite being repeatedly asked what his question was, he then tried to interupt when both LD and STF tried to answer his rant/make a point.

LD made it clear all board members would be available to answer questions after the meeting had broken up, they all chose not to take advantage of the opportunity.

They were all shouted down on several ocassions but I think that's reflective of the lack of support they have amongst the wider fanbase. They aren't presenting any alternative plan. Their repeated assertion that they 'spoke for the fans' was met by shouts of 'not for me' which is fair game imo. They also weren't shy on shouting down others they didn't agree with. STFs, and to a lesser extent, RPs rhetoric and response was forceful but rightfully so. Pia openly accused STF of taking money from Hibs to line his own pockets, he has every right to respond aggressively to such a claim imo.

I think had they had a few well thought out coherent questions they may have got a decent backing. As it was a couple of guys stood up and shouted, ranted and made accusations of theft against the majority shareholder and they got exactly the response they deserved from the majority at the meeting.

[barcahibs]

HOH guys moaning on Twitter about not having their questions answered, the abusive tone of the other fans and the lack of calm head and dialogue from Sir Tom and Rod.

I wasn't there but are they correct in feeling hard done by?

IMO no. They had the opportunity to ask questions but wasted it on rants and nonsense. Pia in particular got more time with the microphone than anyone else, and was only shouted down by other shareholders when it became clear he had no intention of asking an actual question and was just going to ramble on with vague accusations and conspiracy theories all night.

One line from Paul Kane that struck me at the time was when LD asked him why HSL was different from BuyHibs - he replied along the lines of "because it's not run by us".
Now I suspect he meant "Hibs fans" when he said "us" - but it did come across in my mind as a bit of a Freudian slip...

It was a Pia supporter who suggested Rod ask the room for a vote on whether to allow more questions, and the room voted not to. Frankly I would have rather the board had given Pia et al more rope but the majority of those in the room clearly had had enough.

It's a shame, there's nothing wrong with airing concerns, and many supporters (like me) who don't really understand the financial and legal world of share issues will have genuine questions - but the confrontational attitude of certain groups and individuals is preventing any decent discussion from taking place.

[macd123]

I wouldn't say they can feel hard done by as none of them really asked a question. The first guy to speak asked if the share issue could be delayed. When asked why he got a bit ranty rather than giving coherent arguments or reasoning. Paul Kane was also a bit ranty although in his defence he seemed the nost genuine of those who spoke. Simon Pia was just embarassing. He ranted for a good 2 or 3 minutes despite being repeatedly asked what his question was, he then tried to interupt when both LD and STF tried to answer his rant/make a point.

LD made it clear all board members would be available to answer questions after the meeting had broken up, they all chose not to take advantage of the opportunity.

They were all shouted down on several ocassions but I think that's reflective of the lack of support they have amongst the wider fanbase. They aren't presenting any alternative plan. Their repeated assertion that they 'spoke for the fans' was met by shouts of 'not for me' which is fair game imo. They also weren't shy on shouting down others they didn't agree with. STFs, and to a lesser extent, RPs rhetoric and response was forceful but rightfully so. Pia openly accused STF of taking money from Hibs to line his own pockets, he has every right to respond aggressively to such a claim imo.

I think had they had a few well thought out coherent questions they may have got a decent backing. As it was a couple of guys stood up and shouted, ranted and made accusations of theft against the majority shareholder and they got exactly the response they deserved from the majority at the meeting.

These guys are making my blood boil. They are treating STF like a piece of sh**.

[Fishwicke]

Don't recall a vote being taken on continuing the meeting for more questions.

[bigwheel]

@JimSlaven: Interesting night at #Hibs AGM. I asked Petrie & Farmer to pause their scheme and enter into dialogue. We need to avoid division. #LetsTalk

I had to laugh at this.....if only HoH had actually believed this or had been genuinely acting in this way...

This tweet was posted tonight, by the same guy and group who outside the AGM were launching a personal attack on STF, and have done so over Edinburgh in various ways....

Equally, they via Twitter etc are using derogatory and divisive language about Hbs fans who support what is happening at the club....

The inconsistency is incredible...

I would love to have seen a group seek to create genuine dialogue. This is not the group...they are egotistic and divisive....nobody is fooled...

[green day]

Irvine Welsh used to retweet a lot of HOH / Jim Slaven stuff re Hibs.

Hasn't happened this year, in fact he has barely mentioned his.

Wonder if he has seen which way the wind is blowing.

[Tyler Durden]

Irvine Welsh used to retweet a lot of HOH / Jim Slaven stuff re Hibs.

Hasn't happened this year, in fact he has barely mentioned his.

Wonder if he has seen which way the wind is blowing.

Don't think so - he retweeted their billboard the other day. Welsh can GTF too if he can't be bothered doing his research and just blindly endorses these guys. Which is the impression I get

[green day]

Don't think so - he retweeted their billboard the other day. Welsh can GTF too if he can't be bothered doing his research and just blindly endorses these guys. Which is the impression I get

Ah, must have missed that - indeed I agree entirely.

However a quick trawl at his recent posts shows a definite 'slowing up' of activity on that front - the other week he was challenged on it and just said something along the lines that 'some fans still have a problem with Petrie/Farmer credibility'

[jacomo]

These guys are making my blood boil. They are treating STF like a piece of sh**.

Sounds like STF got a warm welcome and appreciation from most in the room. That is a more meaningful gauge of opinion.

[marinello59]

I'm not so sure that having a go at individuals, whether in the public eye or not, for their perceived support of any group is the way to go. We all have different friendships and loyalties that we have to juggle, things are never really that simple.
As for HoH , they blew it last night. If they wanted to get answers then they should have had some clear and most importantly concise questions prepared. I'm not going to accuse them of incompetence, there are some clever guys running the show there so I can only assume they really do lack any real substance. Maybe they will now produce this evidence they claim to have to back up their more outlandish claims but its looking more and more like it simply doesn't exist.

[Sergio sledge]

Hibs.net says no to HSL Ponzi scheme (https://twitter.com/holyroodboxing/status/560524419291185152) Where does this come from? Sounds like HoH think they are speaking for "fibs.net" now.

Are BuyHibs no more? Paul Kane is now speaking as part of the Shareholders Association apparently, not as part of BuyHibs any more. Sounds like the shareholders don't agree with him either if the response last night is anything to go by.

[jacomo]

It's Bathgate, which puts the article in proper perspective. The same Bathgate who was all in favour of Save Hearts In Trouble and peddled the "it wisnae us" lie on their behalf.

He bangs on about £5m, overlooking that we have to repay that sum interest free over a longer term than the £9.5m loan plus interest which the £5m replaces.

Think Glen Ross has links to Simon Pia as well.

Bathgate is a thick Jambo fool. Unfortunately, Hibs do have to deal with a somewhat hostile media, esp Scotsman towers. His story is a disgrace.

[jacomo]

Absolutely. If the deal really is that sweet, then people will invest despite the criticisms from some maverick fans groups. I think at the heart of it a lot of people are riled because they want to believe in this more than they actually do, and resent their private fears being publicly aired.

I'll probably even invest in it myself, out of a strange combination of blind loyalty to the club and a belief that Dempster is on the level. However, when I sit down and look at the deal and its timings, read Petrie's latest musings and think through the broader issue of the fan ownership provided by this initiative, I'm convinced by it less and less.

However, my overriding reason for supporting it is that I genuinely can't see any viable alternatives on the horizon. None of the supporters groups criticising it are offering one. So I'm a negative Yes, who desperately wishes he could be a positive Yes.

But I think we need to dispense with personal attacks, whether it be regarding HOH spokespersons or admins on this board. No objections to STF/Petrie taking fan criticism - many here are still angry at them, and they both know the score about how fans of a football club are, so I seriously doubt it'll bother either of them. But the bottom line is that the supporters all want the best for Hibs and have to move forward together, whatever way we eventually choose to do that.

It's too easy to get distracted by the technicalities of inter company loans. The cash generated by the share issue goes to the club, not STF, so balances out against the loan.

The bottom line is this - STF is offering us 51% (a controlling stake by any definition) for £2.5m.

If you think that's a good deal, get in.

If you think that's a bad deal but want to help the club anyhow, get in.

If you don't like it don't take part.

[marinello59]

Hibs.net says no to HSL Ponzi scheme (https://twitter.com/holyroodboxing/status/560524419291185152) Where does this come from? Sounds like HoH think they are speaking for "fibs.net" now.

Are BuyHibs no more? Paul Kane is now speaking as part of the Shareholders Association apparently, not as part of BuyHibs any more. Sounds like the shareholders don't agree with him either if the response last night is anything to go by.

Paul Kane had his Former Players Association hat on. Looks like he has thrown his BuyHibs directors hat away for the time being.
The hibs.net placards did bring some humour to the party so fair dos on that one, it raised a smile from me. The love from afar for this place from HoH is deeply touching. :greengrin

[AndyM_1875]

@JimSlaven: Interesting night at #Hibs AGM. I asked Petrie & Farmer to pause their scheme and enter into dialogue. We need to avoid division. #LetsTalk

I had to laugh at this.....if only HoH had actually believed this or had been genuinely acting in this way...

This tweet was posted tonight, by the same guy and group who outside the AGM were launching a personal attack on STF, and have done so over Edinburgh in various ways....

Equally, they via Twitter etc are using derogatory and divisive language about Hbs fans who support what is happening at the club....

The inconsistency is incredible...

I would love to have seen a group seek to create genuine dialogue. This is not the group...they are egotistic and divisive....nobody is fooled...

Jim is an auld chancer, he's got a bloody nerve coming out with that.
He can be amusing on Twitter but I wouldn't trust him as far as I could throw him.

If anything HoH confirmed their joke status last night for me. They finally personalized things against Sir Tom with these abusive signs outside the ground and their one barely respectable talking head (Pia) made an absolute erse of himself as he made a ridiculous accusation before being verbally slapped down by Sir Tom.

And on SSN, Kano came over very badly IMHO.

[jacomo]

Hibs.net says no to HSL Ponzi scheme (https://twitter.com/holyroodboxing/status/560524419291185152) Where does this come from? Sounds like HoH think they are speaking for "fibs.net" now.

Are BuyHibs no more? Paul Kane is now speaking as part of the Shareholders Association apparently, not as part of BuyHibs any more. Sounds like the shareholders don't agree with him either if the response last night is anything to go by.

BuyHibs is finished I think.

As said on here at the time, they refused to meet with the club when invited to do so, it was a fatal mistake as far as their own aspirations were concerned.

[Bostonhibby]

Paul Kane had his Former Players Association hat on. Looks like he has thrown his BuyHibs directors hat away for the time being.
The hibs.net placards did bring some humour to the party so fair dos on that one, it raised a smile from me. The love from afar for this place from HoH is deeply touching. :greengrin

Wondered about that, does this mean that the former players have been asked if they support HOH / Kanes' position and he therefore speaks for them on the subject?

[Brightside]

Ah, must have missed that - indeed I agree entirely.

However a quick trawl at his recent posts shows a definite 'slowing up' of activity on that front - the other week he was challenged on it and just said something along the lines that 'some fans still have a problem with Petrie/Farmer credibility'

He has been supporting them. He's friends with a few of them. He may be a great writer but it doesnt stop him being a fanny sometimes.

[Scouse Hibee]

Are the HOH guys quiet today after the beating they took last night or back in the Holyrood gym sparring for their next fight.

[Jack]

Are the HOH guys quiet today after the beating they took last night or back in the Holyrood gym sparring for their next fight.

One can only hope they're back doing what a boxing club should be doing.

[Dashing Bob S]

It's too easy to get distracted by the technicalities of inter company loans. The cash generated by the share issue goes to the club, not STF, so balances out against the loan.

The bottom line is this - STF is offering us 51% (a controlling stake by any definition) for £2.5m.

If you think that's a good deal, get in.

If you think that's a bad deal but want to help the club anyhow, get in.

If you don't like it don't take part.

Probably closest to me. I think it's a bad deal, but the only deal. Would like things to stay as they are at present but STF no spring chicken, we have to have succession and this is the best of several bad routes imo.

Big concern is how a fan-owned club pays off half-a-mill a year, over ten years on the bank loan, before we can spend a penny on the team. Petrie, is I think, being disingenious when he says it comes out of operating costs.

I'm concerned that I'll be paying an (admittedly small) chunk of the 2.5 mill that will, in some form or another, be going to the bank. If others are happy to do this without debate or discussion, then fine. I'm in, but I'm reserving the right not do be doing cartwheels.

[CropleyWasGod]

Probably closest to me. I think it's a bad deal, but the only deal. Would like things to stay as they are at present but STF no spring chicken, we have to have succession and this is the best of several bad routes imo.

Big concern is how a fan-owned club pays off half-a-mill a year, over ten years on the bank loan, before we can spend a penny on the team. Petrie, is I think, being disingenious when he says it comes out of operating costs.

I'm concerned that I'll be paying an (admittedly small) chunk of the 2.5 mill that will, in some form or another, be going to the bank. If others are happy to do this without debate or discussion, then fine. I'm in, but I'm reserving the right not do be doing cartwheels.

This was raised last night, and was answered twice; once before it was even raised.:greengrin

We have been spending c.£500k on paying the loans and related interest for many years. In other words, in cash terms there is little difference.

And... none of your money is going to the bank. The bank is out of the picture.

[Andy74]

Probably closest to me. I think it's a bad deal, but the only deal. Would like things to stay as they are at present but STF no spring chicken, we have to have succession and this is the best of several bad routes imo.

Big concern is how a fan-owned club pays off half-a-mill a year, over ten years on the bank loan, before we can spend a penny on the team. Petrie, is I think, being disingenious when he says it comes out of operating costs.

I'm concerned that I'll be paying an (admittedly small) chunk of the 2.5 mill that will, in some form or another, be going to the bank. If others are happy to do this without debate or discussion, then fine. I'm in, but I'm reserving the right not do be doing cartwheels.

I don't get what anyone sees as bad about the deal.

Our debt has been halved. The rest is interest free and payable to friendly party. We have a payment holiday this year.

We can buy shares if we want. If not don't. We can own more than half together if enough are interested. An investment? We all know the answer.

The cash goes direct to the club.

Where's the bad bit?

[Iain G]

I don't get what anyone sees as bad about the deal.

Our debt has been halved. The rest is interest free and payable to friendly party. We have a payment holiday this year.

We can buy shares if we want. If not don't. We can own more than half together if enough are interested. An investment? We all know the answer.

The cash goes direct to the club.

Where's the bad bit?

A big boy did it, then didnt run away?! ;-)

[jacomo]

Probably closest to me. I think it's a bad deal, but the only deal. Would like things to stay as they are at present but STF no spring chicken, we have to have succession and this is the best of several bad routes imo.

Big concern is how a fan-owned club pays off half-a-mill a year, over ten years on the bank loan, before we can spend a penny on the team. Petrie, is I think, being disingenious when he says it comes out of operating costs.

I'm concerned that I'll be paying an (admittedly small) chunk of the 2.5 mill that will, in some form or another, be going to the bank. If others are happy to do this without debate or discussion, then fine. I'm in, but I'm reserving the right not do be doing cartwheels.

The simpler alternative would have been for STF to say:

'Right, I've cleared the debt. Now I'm offering fans the chance to buy 51% of the club. Total cost £2.5m, and it goes into my back pocket (with a wee bit going to Rod.'

End result would be roughly the same. But STF clearly prefers this route, which also works out better for us cos we've got a 10 year interest free loan but the chance to get £2.5m cash into the club by the summer.

[Pretty Boy]

The simpler alternative would have been for STF to say:

'Right, I've cleared the debt. Now I'm offering fans the chance to buy 51% of the club. Total cost £2.5m, and it goes into my back pocket (with a wee bit going to Rod.'

End result would be roughly the same. But STF clearly prefers this route, which also works out better for us cos we've got a 10 year interest free loan but the chance to get £2.5m cash into the club by the summer.

Spot on.

If STF wanted to trouser our cash he could have sold his shares at his valuation and walked away with a whack of cash. He's chose an totally different route and as was confirmed last nighy he took a direct financial hit to secure the bank deal.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

Spot on.

If STF wanted to trouser our cash he could have sold his shares at his valuation and walked away with a whack of cash. He's chose an totally different route and as was confirmed last nighy he took a direct financial hit to secure the bank deal.

Totally agree.

I have to admit I had some major doubts over Farmer's commitment (not his honesty) after relegation - I felt his silence and inaction then was (and I still do) a mistake. However he has renewed my faith that he is the best kind of owner we can realistically hope for (until some Hibs supporting Russian oligarch comes along).

My concern over Hibs.Net reaction to HoH is that we (and I realise that after posting on their thread, I am now part of the problem!) are giving them more credence than they deserve. They are rabble rousing for whatever reason (no doubt self-aggrandisement is a major one) - in reality, they are an irrelevance. By giving them attention, we are simply helping them achieve their aims of self-aggrandisement.

Its funny, because I don't use social media, I don't read the papers so the only place I have ever heard them being discussed is on here. Other than the (slightly weird) food bank, I have never seen any presence from them at the matches, home or away.

Ignore them.

[lucky]

Why would STF want to fleece Hibs fans for £2.5m over 10 years? Surely his personal wealth will generate a dam site more in interest over that period. I'm disgusted in the attacks on him. He saved our club, yes he's not been hands on, we've made a few ridiculous appointments as managers but the majority of hibs fans were delighted with TBs appointment but our failings go back to just after JCs appointment. As fans we can't lose out of this. Our debt is halved. 10 years to clear a interest free mortgage. If we want to have a greater say in our club then buy shares or join one of two fans collectives. HSL or BuyHibs. For me HSL have set the plans out clearly and seem to be a decent vehicle to buy a collective share in the club. But no one is forcing fans to part with £18.75 a month.

[Tyler Durden]

Spot on.

If STF wanted to trouser our cash he could have sold his shares at his valuation and walked away with a whack of cash. He's chose an totally different route and as was confirmed last nighy he took a direct financial hit to secure the bank deal.

Which will be repaid to him as he also confirmed. And rightly so too, from your notes I think his comments sounded absolutely spot on. No wonder he's furious when these morons are standing outside with banners along the lines of "take take take - STF - you've never given anything".

Ignorant, ungrateful fools.

Onwards and upwards to hopefully a successful share issue

[CropleyWasGod]

Which will be repaid to him as he also confirmed. And rightly so too, from your notes I think his comments sounded absolutely spot on. No wonder he's furious when these morons are standing outside with banners along the lines of "take take take - STF - you've never given anything".

Ignorant, ungrateful fools.

Onwards and upwards to hopefully a successful share issue
I didn't get the chance to ask your question about the bank's share of any future transfers. Too many others in front of me :)

However, thinking it through, if such a deal exists, it should be shown as a Contingent Liability in this year's accounts.

[Tyler Durden]

I didn't get the chance to ask your question about the bank's share of any future transfers. Too many others in front of me :)

However, thinking it through, if such a deal exists, it should be shown as a Contingent Liability in this year's accounts.

No problem, guessed that from the summary. Thanks

[Ozyhibby]

I'm not helping obviously but the best thing that could happen would for this thread to gradually disappear.
I've unfollowed them all from twitter as they have nothing of substance to offer.
Take away their audience and they'll quietly disappear.

[Winston Ingram]

I'm not helping obviously but the best thing that could happen would for this thread to gradually disappear.
I've unfollowed them all from twitter as they have nothing of substance to offer.
Take away their audience and they'll quietly disappear.

I've done the same. They've only got 613 followers which is pretty poor a campaign like that.

[Ozyhibby]

The fans' groups who have raised deep concerns about Hibernian's share offer are expected to meet next week to consider their next move.

The Hibernian Supporters Association, Shareholder Association, Former Players Association, BuyHibs and Hands On Hibs have all raised opposition to the scheme that has made 50 per cent of the Easter Road outfit available to fans.

Together with the one per cent of the club that supporters would already hold, the move - which was approved at Wednesday night's annual general meeting - would place a controlling interest in the hands of the fans.

However, whilst the club have indicated that around 700 have expressed an interest in supporting Hibernian Supporters Limited (HSL), the vehicle set up to buy shares on behalf of supporters, a handful of groups have hit out at the plans.

Their concerns centre on a perceived lack of influence fans would have under the scheme and the move that saw £9.3 million of debt due to the bank and holding company amalgamated into one £5 million mortgage that is payable, interest free, to HFC Holdings, a company owned by Sir Tom Farmer and chairman Rod Petrie.

The groups contend that the debt has been built up through mismanagement at boardroom level and that fans should not have to pay back the money to Farmer, a multi-millionaire.

Their concerns were voiced at a stormy AGM at Easter Road on Wednesday when, in contrast, in contrast individual shareholders showed their support for Farmer and the share and debt moves.

It is understood the dissenting fans' organisations will now come together early next week and, although likely to remain as separate groups, are expected to discuss collectively how best to take their campaign of opposition forward. HSL will start gathering members, who will have to pay a minimum of £18.75 a month or £225 per year, from Monday, with the aim of eventually attracting the £2.5 million needed to purchase a 50 per cent stake in the club.

However, one of the groups opposed, Hands on Hibs (HOH), yesterday repeated the call they made at the AGM for the share scheme to be postponed to allow further discussions. Making a plea for 'calm heads and common sense', HOH said: "Hands On Hibs today call on Tom Farmer and the Hibs board to pause their HSL scheme and enter into dialogue with all supporters groups with a view to forming a working group to address the legitimate concerns many supporters have over the lack of transparency regarding the £5 million debt to the holding company, the fact that Farmer holds Easter Road Stadium as security over this new debt and also the structure of the HSL scheme.

"Hands On Hibs believe we are on the precipice. The club's decision to launch the HSL scheme as a fait accompli was an error. That error was compounded by insisting on opening the scheme within days of the AGM with no meaningful dialogue with supporters.

"It is important the club get this right, not that we get it quickly.

"The board's actions are dividing the support. Hands On Hibs are asking for a pause so calm heads and common sense can prevail.

"Let us get everyone around the table and find agreement on how the club moves forward - together.

"Hands On Hibs urge Tom Farmer and the board to think again. Take a pause and consider the possibility that an inclusive approach could produce a better deal for Hibernian going forward."

[Ozyhibby]

That's from the Herald.
It paints a picture of the fans being against the scheme and only individual shareholders backing it.

[grunt]

... the fact that Farmer holds Easter Road Stadium as security over this new debt ...Is this now a fact?

[Barney McGrew]

The Hibernian Supporters Association, Shareholder Association, Former Players Association, BuyHibs and Hands On Hibs have all raised opposition to the scheme that has made 50 per cent of the Easter Road outfit available to fans

That's funny, because I'm fairly sure Mike Reilly said it was his personal opinion and that the HSA would meet later to discuss it. And I don' t remember seeing any quotes from the shareholders association either.

Maybe if these groups are meeting together to decide their next steps as is reported here, then they might want to get a mandate from the groups they represent first.

I'd hate to think anyone would go to such a meeting claiming to have backing without getting it first, otherwise you'd have to question what their motives are.

[Danderhall Hibs]

Is this now a fact?

If it's not true the club will release a statement to confirm it's not. It's turning into a full time job for someone to deny all this stuff.

Why didn't they ask this question at the agm?

[Ozyhibby]

If it's not true the club will release a statement to confirm it's not. It's turning into a full time job for someone to deny all this stuff.

Why didn't they ask this question at the agm?

I have no problem if it is. The club can afford to pay it's debt, so there is no problem.

[Bostonhibby]

That's funny, because I'm fairly sure Mike Reilly said it was his personal opinion and that the HSA would meet later to discuss it. And I don' t remember seeing any quotes from the shareholders association either.

Maybe if these groups are meeting together to decide their next steps as is reported here, then they might want to get a mandate from the groups they represent first.

I'd hate to think anyone would go to such a meeting claiming to have backing without getting it first, otherwise you'd have to question what their motives are.
This shareholder and HSA member has been canvassed by neither so if there's a mandate how did it come about?

If asked what I wanted anyone purporting to represent me to do it would be to distance themselves from HOH and verify what buyhibs plan now is.

Could be someone is using their media connections to appear they are a bigger influence than they actually are. Still,at least they have given the weegie press a chance to kick hibs at a time when we are chasing the new boys from Glasgow hard in the league.

[Winston Ingram]

I couldn't give a flying fancy if STF has security on ER or not. I'd rather he'd have it rather than a bank. Which one is more likely to call it in if we go all Jambo & start dodging our debts?

[marinello59]

This shareholder and HSA member has been canvassed by neither so if there's a mandate how did it come about?

If asked what I wanted anyone purporting to represent me to do it would be to distance themselves from HOH and verify what buyhibs plan now is.

Could be someone is using their media connections to appear they are a bigger influence than they actually are. Still,at least they have given the weegie press a chance to kick hibs at a time when we are chasing the new boys from Glasgow hard in the league.

That wouldn't surprise me.
And the more different organisations they can name the bigger their campaign appears. They are damaging the club and it seems that HoH want to paint us as a basket case like Sevco. As I keep saying these people are not idiots, they are playing a game designed to give their vocal minority maximum publicity whilst painting the majority as unthinking club lapdogs. Their sneering contempt on twitter for their fellow Hibs fans who aren't in their wee gang does them no favours at all.

[Jack]

Do BuyHibs still exist in the format they did when encouraging fans to join them?

Their reps who were at meetings at the Hibs Club have all but vanished.

Kano has reverted to his Chair of the Former Players Association title.

Mike R has reverted to his Chair of the HSA title.

I think the only person to mention BuyHibs at the AGM was LD!

And I'm not sure if Pia is in with one, both (HoH and BuyHibs) or neither!

[marinello59]

Do BuyHibs still exist in the format they did when encouraging fans to join them?

Their reps who were at meetings at the Hibs Club have all but vanished.

Kano has reverted to his Chair of the Former Players Association title.

Mike R has reverted to his Chair of the HSA title.

I think the only person to mention BuyHibs at the AGM was LD!

And I'm not sure if Pia is in with one, both or neither!

BuyHibs appear to be finished. Wasn't Simon Pia advising them on media matters? He is now fully behind HoH if his latest tweet is accurate. HoH, the sporting wing of the James Connolly Society, there is a quality sitcom in this somewhere.:greengrin

[CropleyWasGod]

If it's not true the club will release a statement to confirm it's not. It's turning into a full time job for someone to deny all this stuff.

Why didn't they ask this question at the agm?
Another poster asked it after the main event, and it was confirmed.

Not a big issue IMO.

[s.a.m]

I'm not helping obviously but the best thing that could happen would for this thread to gradually disappear.
I've unfollowed them all from twitter as they have nothing of substance to offer.
Take away their audience and they'll quietly disappear.

While I get where you're coming from, I think the newspaper articles are the answer to that. They don't look like they going to disappear any time soon. From the reports of the AGM, it sounds like they were given a fairly resounding 'not in my name' with the response to STF, as opposed to themselves. but they're determined to run this scheme into the ground and they're not going to let facts or democracy get in the way.

If their nonsense isn't highlighted and challenged on here and elsewhere, it will become 'fact' before long, because they're going to keep using Pia's influence and Kane's status in the Hibs' community to get their stuff aired and printed. Everyone needs to keep on challenging.

[Hibby Kay-Yay]

Anyone on here a member/affiliated with them? Genuine question as I don't know.

To me the club have delivered a substantially reduced financial debt with probably the best rates on repayment you can get. An offer of 51% fan ownership, 2 non-exec board members selected by the fans and a new footballing structure that is starting to bear fruit.

What's the alternative reason for me to back HoH/Buyhibs?

[Bostonhibby]

That wouldn't surprise me.
And the more different organisations they can name the bigger their campaign appears. They are damaging the club and it seems that HoH want to paint us as a basket case like Sevco. As I keep saying these people are not idiots, they are playing a game designed to give their vocal minority maximum publicity whilst painting the majority as unthinking club lapdogs. Their sneering contempt on twitter for their fellow Hibs fans who aren't in their wee gang does them no favours at all.
The sooner the actual purchase of shares by HSL and crucially all other sources able to buy starts, the better.

Actual numbers might be a problem for some but if the numbers who want to go down the route the club's proposing just get on and do it then it starts to tell its own story rather than the difficult to verify claims we are currently hearing. It's the best response from those who feel they aren't represented by or are being misrepresented by the various factions currently hogging the limelight

[Ozyhibby]

If Paul Kane wants to keep attacking the club them maybe it's time for some fans to think twice about visiting his pub or travelling on his bus.

[Andy74]

I couldn't give a flying fancy if STF has security on ER or not. I'd rather he'd have it rather than a bank. Which one is more likely to call it in if we go all Jambo & start dodging our debts?

I would think he, or the holding company really, do have security and would fully expect it that way. They did pay for it after all. My lender has security over my house until I pay for it.

This is actually a positive against the bank having it.

I don't know what type of Hibs fans want to keep looking for the next little detail to try and attack the club on. Apart from idiots, which is what we appear to be dealing with.

[marinello59]

I would think he, or the holding company really, do have security and would fully expect it that way. They did pay for it after all. My lender has security over my house until I pay for it.

This is actually a positive against the bank having it.

I don't know what type of Hibs fans want to keep looking for the next little detail to try and attack the club on. Apart from idiots, which is what we appear to be dealing with.

They are unthinkingly following the lead of the Sevco rabble who are up in arms at the thought of Ashley having a security over Ibrox. This a completely different situation but HoH don't care. They simply want to throw as much mud as they can at the club and anybody who opposes their view.

[CropleyWasGod]

They are unthinkingly following the lead of the Sevco rabble who are up in arms at the thought of Ashley having a security over Ibrox. This a completely different situation but HoH don't care. They simply want to throw as much mud as they can at the club and anybody who opposes their view.

... and ignoring the fact that the bank have had security over ER for over 20 years.

[greenginger]

If it's not true the club will release a statement to confirm it's not. It's turning into a full time job for someone to deny all this stuff.

Why didn't they ask this question at the agm?


I suppose you can say its not true that STF has any security over Easter Road.

The security is held by HFC Holdings ltd. but then again anything can be put down on paper. :greengrin

[Vini1875]

I think fans are right to be wary, because neither side is putting forward much of a case. Clarity and facts will win this debate. STF and RP have done a lot for Hibs but they have also cost us quite a bit as well. HOH might just rebelling against big business types like STF and RP or they might smell a rat. LD could actively blow some of the nonsense out of the water by simply sure clear and concise facts are on the table that average football fan can understand. We know that putting money into the club is not a financial investment, we know the shares will have only sentimental value, we do not expect to make a profit, but clear information is all that is needed.

[DaveF]

I think fans are right to be wary, because neither side is putting forward much of a case. Clarity and facts will win this debate. STF and RP have done a lot for Hibs but they have also cost us quite a bit as well. HOH might just rebelling against big business types like STF and RP or they might smell a rat. LD could actively blow some of the nonsense out of the water by simply sure clear and concise facts are on the table that average football fan can understand. We know that putting money into the club is not a financial investment, we know the shares will have only sentimental value, we do not expect to make a profit, but clear information is all that is needed.

Lots of information is out there already:

HSL Q&A (http://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?297704-Hibernian-Supporters-Limited-Q-amp-A)

Q&A with Leeann Dempster (http://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?296496-Q-amp-A-With-Leeann-Dempster-re-Debt-Reduction-and-Share-Offer)

Share Issue - The Basics (http://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?297222-Hibernian-FC-Share-Issue-The-Basics)

Hibernian Supporters Limited - Articles Of Association (http://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?297668-Hibernian-Supporters-Limited-Articles-of-Association)

[jacomo]

I think fans are right to be wary, because neither side is putting forward much of a case. Clarity and facts will win this debate. STF and RP have done a lot for Hibs but they have also cost us quite a bit as well. HOH might just rebelling against big business types like STF and RP or they might smell a rat. LD could actively blow some of the nonsense out of the water by simply sure clear and concise facts are on the table that average football fan can understand. We know that putting money into the club is not a financial investment, we know the shares will have only sentimental value, we do not expect to make a profit, but clear information is all that is needed.

I think the club's position is pretty clear, isn't it?

Hibs is launching a share issue, we know the price, we know the terms, we know the timescale. What else is there?

HoH are grumbling that Hibs is being saddled with a £5m debt, but ignoring the fact that proceeds of the share sale go to the club and not STF. It is silly to speak about one and not the other.

[Andy74]

I think fans are right to be wary, because neither side is putting forward much of a case. Clarity and facts will win this debate. STF and RP have done a lot for Hibs but they have also cost us quite a bit as well. HOH might just rebelling against big business types like STF and RP or they might smell a rat. LD could actively blow some of the nonsense out of the water by simply sure clear and concise facts are on the table that average football fan can understand. We know that putting money into the club is not a financial investment, we know the shares will have only sentimental value, we do not expect to make a profit, but clear information is all that is needed.

What don't you think is clear and what do you think is bad about the 'case' from the club?

[Andy74]

I think the club's position is pretty clear, isn't it?

Hibs is launching a share issue, we know the price, we know the terms, we know the timescale. What else is there?

HoH are grumbling that Hibs is being saddled with a £5m debt, but ignoring the fact that proceeds of the share sale go to the club and not STF. It is silly to speak about one and not the other.

Or another way to talk about the debt would be that it has been halved and is now interest free.

[Brightside]

I think fans are right to be wary, because neither side is putting forward much of a case. Clarity and facts will win this debate. STF and RP have done a lot for Hibs but they have also cost us quite a bit as well. HOH might just rebelling against big business types like STF and RP or they might smell a rat. LD could actively blow some of the nonsense out of the water by simply sure clear and concise facts are on the table that average football fan can understand. We know that putting money into the club is not a financial investment, we know the shares will have only sentimental value, we do not expect to make a profit, but clear information is all that is needed.

The board really couldnt be any clearer now. I can't think of single question that still needs answered. HoH dont even ask questions now.

[Gerard]

The board really couldnt be any clearer now. I can't think of single question that still needs answered. HoH dont even ask questions now.

That to me is the position that we are in. I think that getting an interest free mortgage with a payment holiday is a good deal to me. I also like the idea of buying shares at 4p a share and the ideas behind HSL. I also like the idea that we have no bank debt. I am sure many other clubs would like no bank debt. I think our club has been given a good deal by STF. I say thank you STF for supporting Hibs.

[Mikey]

I think fans are right to be wary, because neither side is putting forward much of a case. Clarity and facts will win this debate. STF and RP have done a lot for Hibs but they have also cost us quite a bit as well. HOH might just rebelling against big business types like STF and RP or they might smell a rat. LD could actively blow some of the nonsense out of the water by simply sure clear and concise facts are on the table that average football fan can understand. We know that putting money into the club is not a financial investment, we know the shares will have only sentimental value, we do not expect to make a profit, but clear information is all that is needed.


Lots of information is out there already:

HSL Q&A (http://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?297704-Hibernian-Supporters-Limited-Q-amp-A)

Q&A with Leeann Dempster (http://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?296496-Q-amp-A-With-Leeann-Dempster-re-Debt-Reduction-and-Share-Offer)

Share Issue - The Basics (http://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?297222-Hibernian-FC-Share-Issue-The-Basics)

Hibernian Supporters Limited - Articles Of Association (http://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?297668-Hibernian-Supporters-Limited-Articles-of-Association)


As Dave says, the information is out there.

We've always believed that making information as freely available as possible is very important as rumour, misinformation and lies do us no good whatsoever. That's why an explanation of what happened to the car park money has been in The Vault since November 2008.....

http://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?135671-So-what-happened-to-the-money-from-the-car-park

Simon Pia must have missed it :greengrin

[thebakerboy]

The question I have for all the fans who are unsure or just dead against the changes at ER. Would they rather Sir Tom withdrew from the deal that consolidates the clubs debt into £5million due to him and the club goes back to paying off the £9/10 plus interest we were due before and these dissenters could take over running the club with that debt hanging over the club. I think this is a great deal and although I do have mild concerns about the club controlling HSL I think this is a no-brainer , with the alternative being going back to the previous financial position.

[jacomo]

Or another way to talk about the debt would be that it has been halved and is now interest free.

Yes it would - don't know if you've noticed though, but that argument isn't getting much traction with the dissenters. :wink:

[Turkish Green]

I think the club's position is pretty clear, isn't it?

Hibs is launching a share issue, we know the price, we know the terms, we know the timescale. What else is there?

HoH are grumbling that Hibs is being saddled with a £5m debt, but ignoring the fact that proceeds of the share sale go to the club and not STF. It is silly to speak about one and not the other.

I have nothing positive to say about HOH. I do not trust them. IMO the club would end up worse off if they got their way.

My position has been clear since I joined this forum. I am anti-Petrie but I am not anti-STF.

In this case: the enemy of my enemy is definitely not my friend.

The club still has debts but they are now manageable and interest free. That's a good thing, surely? Others may argue otherwise.

[Jack]

BuyHibs appear to be finished. Wasn't Simon Pia advising them on media matters? He is now fully behind HoH if his latest tweet is accurate. HoH, the sporting wing of the James Connolly Society, there is a quality sitcom in this somewhere.:greengrin

Maybe BuyHibs was too anti Petrie and not enough anti STF for Pias liking!



Not sure about 'anti Petrie', surely it should be uncle Petrie, or maybe that's for the folk who like him.

[lapsedhibee]

Or another way to talk about the debt would be that it has been halved and is now interest free.

But but but Farmer's a multimillionaire! :grr: :panic: