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Mikey
14-01-2015, 11:34 AM
Hibernian Supporters Limited launched today.

This scheme is NOT regulated by the Financial Conduct Authority so you can discuss the merits of participating if you like. However, you still CANNOT discuss the pros and cons of individuals buying shares for themselves.

The press release is below..........

Mikey
14-01-2015, 11:35 AM
The Board of Hibernian announced on 29 December 2014, that it intended to widen the ownership of the Club by issuing new shares that would enable the Holding Company’s shareholding in Hibernian to be diluted below 50%.

Today the creation of Hibernian Supporters Limited is announced, a company limited by guarantee that has been established with the sole purpose and primary objectives of acquiring shares in Hibernian Football Club Ltd and to hold those shares for the benefit of the supporters of the Club.

There is a binding legal agreement between Hibernian Supporters Limited and Hibernian Football Club that guarantees the transfer of shares on receipt of funds and that those funds will only be used to further the Club’s sporting ambitions and not directed to current shareholders.

Hibernian supporters will be able to make contributions to Hibernian Supporters Limited, which in turn will be used to acquire shares in Hibernian. Supporters who make contributions will not own shares directly but will own Hibernian Supporters Limited, which in turn will own the shares in the Club.

Hibernian Supporters Limited is a simple alternative to holding shares directly. Acquiring shares directly requires individuals to comply with rigorous Financial Services and Markets Act 2000 regulations.

Contributions to Hibernian Supporters Limited can be made on a monthly basis or by lump sum. The more money raised the more shares can be acquired. The more shares acquired mean more involvement and influence supporters can have in the Club – there is strength in solidarity.

It is intended to launch fundraising on 2 February 2015, following the Club’s AGM, and details of how to participate and contribute will be available on Hibernian Supporters Limited full website which will go live on that day. In the meantime details of the objectives and articles of association of Hibernian Supporters Limited can be found on the website landing page on www.hiberniansupporters.co.uk, along with details of the founding directors.

Annual contributions will be set at a minimum of £225 per annum or £18.75 per month and fundraising will continue until Hibernian Supporters Limited has acquired all the shares that it can buy from Hibernian Football Club Ltd.


More below....

Mikey
14-01-2015, 11:36 AM
The Directors of Hibernian Supporters Limited are...

Kenny MacAskill, MSP

Charlie Reid, Proclaimer

Jackie McNamara, Hibs Legend

James Adie, Businessman

Gordon Smith, Businessman

Stephen Dunn, Former Hibernian FC Director

Leeann Dempster, Chief Executive, Hibernian FC


More below....

Mikey
14-01-2015, 11:36 AM
Kenny MacAskill, MSP for Edinburgh Eastern who will Chair Hibernian Supporters Limited said:

“This is the start of an important journey that will lead to our Club being in the hands of its supporters. The journey can be shortened by the Hibernian family coming together supporting this important initiative. The more supporters who donate to Hibernian Supporters Limited the more shares we can buy. Our objectives are simple; to buy and hold shares for the benefit of supporters of our great Club.

“While we aim to launch the fundraising on 2 February 2015, we will seek to make as much information available as possible through our website and by meeting as many supporters as we can. This is an important day in the history of our Club. We want all supporters to grasp the opportunity and help us buy as many shares as we possibly can, because the more shares we acquire the more influence and a voice we will have.”

Pat Stanton, Club Legend said:

“I said in December that the Club’s proposals appeared to deliver what we all wanted. Hibernian Supporters Limited can now deliver our ambition to have a greater say and greater ownership as supporters in the Club we all love. It is important that we don’t compete against each other and we need to unite behind this initiative.

“I am personally backing Hibernian Supporters Limited with my support and I urge all Hibernian Supporters to do the same.”

Charlie Reid, Founding Director and Proclaimer said:

“Fan ownership has been on my agenda for a long time to ensure that the Club is in the hands of those who love it most, the fans. Hibernian Supporters Limited gives us all this opportunity and we need to grasp it firmly. In our 140th year, it will be the fans that can ensure another 140 years by taking stewardship of the Club through supporting Hibernian Supporters Limited buying up as many shares as it can.

“I am backing it and I encourage all Hibs fans to do the same.”

Jackie McNamara, Founding Director and Hibs Legend said:

“Hibernian Supporters Limited allows supporters to share in the ownership and stewardship of our great Club in a simple way and on a democratic basis. We all have only one ambition for Hibernian and that is for it to be successful.

“I want to encourage every supporter to join us and enable us all to be a part of a bright future for our Club. We already have a wonderful stadium and training centre. Progress is being made on the football side and funds that are raised by Hibernian Supporters Limited goes to building on that progress and is focussed on sporting success.”



Leeann Dempster, Founding Director and Chief Executive of Hibernian said:

“We said in December that our aim was to widen the ownership in the Club and that is exactly what we are doing. Hibernian Supporters Limited is a simple way of achieving that without the need for fans to comply with the rigorous requirements of the Financial Services and Markets Act 2000 regulations.

“Wider ownership means that Hibernian is owned by people to whom it means the most, the supporters. I have a track record of supporting wider involvement and ownership and am pleased that Hibernian Supporters Limited can give this opportunity to everyone who has an interest in Hibernian, fans and in addition, the wider community we serve.”

Mikey
14-01-2015, 11:37 AM
You can read a bit about it here too.....

http://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?297189-Evening-News-(Hibs)-Hibs-unveil-supporter-share-plan

Andy74
14-01-2015, 11:51 AM
Seeing as the threads started by members have been closed to make way for the official announcement I will add to this again instead...:greengrin

I'm not sure of this method to be honest. A thing I wanted was to be able to purchase shares direct into Hibs. Just a presentational thing maybe but an important distinction.

Is it right for the Chief Exec of the club to also be a director of a supporters shareholding company? Not sure on that one.

Also not sure on appointing two supporters reps at this time to main board then having another company with a board that looks to be filled with supporter friendly faces too. I know it is to oversee this other entity but also just not sure.

Mikey
14-01-2015, 11:53 AM
Seeing as the threads started by members have been closed to make way for the official announcement I will add to this again instead...:greengrin

I'm not sure of this method to be honest. A thing I wanted was to be able to purchase shares direct into Hibs. Just a presentational thing maybe but an important distinction.

Is it right for the Chief Exec of the club to also be a director of a supporters shareholding company? Not sure on that one.

Also not sure on appointing two supporters reps at this time to main board then having another company with a board that looks to be filled with supporter friendly faces too. I know it is to oversee this other entity but also just not sure.

There's no reason why you can't buy shares direct and participate in this.

And I'm not convinced they've all been friendly faces in the past.

Andy74
14-01-2015, 11:55 AM
There's no reason why you can't buy shares direct and participate in this.

And I'm not convinced they've all been friendly faces in the past.

That wasn't clear - will there be the option just to buy them direct in the offer then?

Mikey
14-01-2015, 11:57 AM
That wasn't clear - will there be the option just to buy them direct in the offer then?

If the stuff ever drops through the door, aye :greengrin

This is a completely separate entity that allows people who don't want to shell out a lump sum take part.

matty_f
14-01-2015, 11:57 AM
There's no reason why you can't buy shares direct and participate in this.

And I'm not convinced they've all been friendly faces in the past.

Can you do that? The way it's it was that it was through the new company only.

Mikey
14-01-2015, 11:59 AM
Can you do that? The way it's it was that it was through the new company only.

Don't see why not. I'm sure things will be clearer once shareholders receive the offer documents but I really can't see it being a problem.

Andy74
14-01-2015, 12:02 PM
If the stuff ever drops through the door, aye :greengrin

This is a completely separate entity that allows people who don't want to shell out a lump sum take part.

Okay, they may have been a bit clearer with that.

I had wondered who might represent holders once you collate all the individuals. There will obviously be a big weighting to this group - something to consider for the already small individual holder.

Mikey
14-01-2015, 12:06 PM
There's no reason why you can't buy shares direct and participate in this.



Confirmed.

JimBHibees
14-01-2015, 12:06 PM
Is it 225 per year or after the 225 is paid the shares are yours?

Caversham Green
14-01-2015, 12:08 PM
This looks similar to the Swansea City Supporters' Trust, but in limited company form. I wonder why they didn't go down the trust route.

Mikey
14-01-2015, 12:09 PM
Is it 225 per year or after the 225 is paid the shares are yours?

No, the shares belong to Hibernian Supporters Limited, you won't own them.

My understanding is that fans who buy shares in this way will be able to vote Hibernian Supporters Limited board members on and off further down the line but I'm just heading out the door so can't confirm at the moment :greengrin

JimBHibees
14-01-2015, 12:11 PM
No, the shares belong to Hibernian Supporters Limited, you won't own them.

My understanding is that fans who buy shares in this way will be able to vote Hibernian Supporters Limited board members on and off further down the line but I'm just heading out the door so can't confirm at the moment :greengrin

Ok cheers. Is it 225 a year though?

Mikey
14-01-2015, 12:26 PM
Ok cheers. Is it 225 a year though?

That would be the minimum, yeah.

Gatecrasher
14-01-2015, 12:32 PM
Ok cheers. Is it 225 a year though?


Contributions to Hibernian Supporters Limited can be made on a monthly basis or by lump sum. Annual contributions will be set at a minimum of £225 per annum or £18.75 per month and fundraising will continue until Hibernian Supporters Limited has acquired all the shares that it can buy from Hibernian Football Club Ltd.
http://www.hibernianfc.co.uk/news/5107

Whether the payments are continuous until all shares are purchased or it stops after 12 months, I don't know.

Geo_1875
14-01-2015, 12:35 PM
I'm confused. :confused:

I believe existing shareholders are being offered access to the "new" shares. Will ordinary punters be able to buy shares on their own behalf?

The minimum payment of £225 per year to the new company. Is that open ended until all 51% are transferred out of the club? Can contributors stop payment in advance of that point and still own a percentage of the company? Will there be running costs for the company?

I know this might be on the company website but I don't have time to check.

NYHibby
14-01-2015, 12:46 PM
This looks similar to the Swansea City Supporters' Trust, but in limited company form. I wonder why they didn't go down the trust route.

It is a company limited by guarantee. I believe that CLGs are more flexible than a trust.


No, the shares belong to Hibernian Supporters Limited, you won't own them.

My understanding is that fans who buy shares in this way will be able to vote Hibernian Supporters Limited board members on and off further down the line but I'm just heading out the door so can't confirm at the moment :greengrin

Presumably everyone who contributes will be considered to be a member of HSL and therefore would be able to vote for the CLG's board. So it is kind of like owning shares in HSL just that CLGs have members rather than shareholders.

Mikey
14-01-2015, 12:48 PM
Presumably everyone who contributes will be considered to be a member of HSL and therefore would be able to vote for the CLG's board. So it is kind of like owning shares in HSL just that CLGs have members rather than shareholders.

Yep.

h185forever
14-01-2015, 12:59 PM
I can understand the new Ltd company holding the proxies for individual shareholders to give it some clout but I'm not sure about them holding my shares....in my name ?

It seems an awful lot of directors for a shareholding company ........how will they be reimbursed ?...even if its just for expenses....some of the shares sold ?
I would have expected the fans.....the prospective new shareholders to have had some say in who the directors would be ...as in effect it their company...not the clubs

Could there be any conflict of interest for LD being a director of the new company ...would she vote against the main board of the club if such a scenario arose ?

I want to buy I want to commit ...but am very war of a similar scenario to the Duff & Grey nightmare

hopefully more info will make things clearer


some of the above may have been answered as I drafted

Oscar T Grouch
14-01-2015, 01:03 PM
This is what people were looking for. You can purchase shares in HFC directly if you want. If you want to go on a payment scheme (which quite a few people averred) then you can purchase them through the HSL, you will not own those shares directly but you will own part of HSL, who in turn will own shares. All monies will still go towards the club and not to current share holders. This enable lone punters to indirectly own shares in HFC without effecting any regulations that prevent payment plans to buy shares directly.

Good on the club, I think this will be everyone covered, apart from those who cannot afford £19 a month :thumbsup:

bighairyfaeleith
14-01-2015, 01:05 PM
Seems pretty straightforward, if you want to buy your own shares you can.

If you want to subscribe to this new company then they will use that money to buy shares, you will have a say in that company as long as you continue to subscribe but won't directly own any shares.

Think I will subscribe, £20 a month will do fine. Might take a few years for us to own all 51% but we will get there.

Mikey
14-01-2015, 01:07 PM
Seems pretty straightforward, if you want to buy your own shares you can.

If you want to subscribe to this new company then they will use that money to buy shares, you will have a say in that company as long as you continue to subscribe but won't directly own any shares.

Think I will subscribe, £20 a month will do fine. Might take a few years for us to own all 51% but we will get there.

That pretty much nails it.

h185forever
14-01-2015, 01:09 PM
This is what people were looking for. You can purchase shares in HFC directly if you want. If you want to go on a payment scheme (which quite a few people averred) then you can purchase them through the HSL, you will not own those shares directly but you will own part of HSL, who in turn will own shares. All monies will still go towards the club and not to current share holders. This enable lone punters to indirectly own shares in HFC without effecting any regulations that prevent payment plans to buy shares directly.

Good on the club, I think this will be everyone covered, apart from those who cannot afford £19 a month :thumbsup:


if I understand you correctly .....does that mean if I want to own my shares they will not count as part of the HSL holding and effectively will not help achieve the 51% fan ownership ?

Ross4356
14-01-2015, 01:12 PM
Does anyone know yet how much shares will be?

lucky
14-01-2015, 01:13 PM
Very similar to Hearts, fans pay in around £20 and a limited company with a politician as chair eventually get the shares and a say in the club. For £225 you actually don't get anything. This proposal might work for some but I'm not sure how many fans will go for this.

Mikey
14-01-2015, 01:13 PM
if I understand you correctly .....does that mean if I want to own my shares they will not count as part of the HSL holding and effectively will not help achieve the 51% fan ownership ?

A share is a share, whether you own it or HSL.

Andy74
14-01-2015, 01:16 PM
This is what people were looking for. You can purchase shares in HFC directly if you want. If you want to go on a payment scheme (which quite a few people averred) then you can purchase them through the HSL, you will not own those shares directly but you will own part of HSL, who in turn will own shares. All monies will still go towards the club and not to current share holders. This enable lone punters to indirectly own shares in HFC without effecting any regulations that prevent payment plans to buy shares directly.

Good on the club, I think this will be everyone covered, apart from those who cannot afford £19 a month :thumbsup:

I think more people wanted a way to own shares directly though, not to be part of a group with another large board etc to keep an eye on! :greengrin

Do the individual holders count as fan owners? Who represents them? This group will talk for fan owners I'd suspect.

lucky
14-01-2015, 01:16 PM
A share is a share, whether you own it or HSL.

Yes but a share HSL does not make you entitled to attend the AGM or directly own part of the club

Caversham Green
14-01-2015, 01:22 PM
It is a company limited by guarantee. I believe that CLGs are more flexible than a trust.


So it is - I missed that bit. Not sure about them being more flexible but they probably are more transparent since the accounts have to be published. I guess each contributor will become a guarantor - equivalent to a shareholder - in the CLG and so will have a vote on the composition of its board. I would have thought the administration costs would be considerably higher though.

DarrenSQH
14-01-2015, 01:23 PM
I want to own shares in Hibs, so i hope this is another option.

Im not keen on paying monthly so Hibernian Supporters Ltd gets the shares.

Ken
14-01-2015, 01:25 PM
Mikey, once HSL acquire the shares in the club do you know how voting on club matters will work? For example if HSL own 51% of the club, is it the shareholders (you, me etc...) that will be able to vote on behalf of HSL or will the vote be made by the directors on behalf of the HSL shareholders?

Pretty Boy
14-01-2015, 01:26 PM
I want to own shares in Hibs, so i hope this is another option.

Im not keen on paying monthly so Hibernian Supporters Ltd gets the shares.

You will be able to buy your own shares. You don't have to buy them through HSL.

AndyM_1875
14-01-2015, 01:27 PM
if I understand you correctly .....does that mean if I want to own my shares they will not count as part of the HSL holding and effectively will not help achieve the 51% fan ownership ?

I think the intention is to take the holding company (Sir Tom, Rod) shareholding to 49%. Everything else will count at Fan Ownership.
Please correct me if I'm wrong.

I also want to own my shares and stick the certificate on the wall/attend the AGM so I'll buy direct when that option becomes available.

Mikey
14-01-2015, 01:27 PM
Yes but a share HSL does make you entitled to attend the AGM or directly own part of the club

I wouldn't think so. Buying a small amount yourself and also contributing to HSL would cover that.

Mikey
14-01-2015, 01:31 PM
Mikey, once HSL acquire the shares in the club do you know how voting on club matters will work? For example if HSL own 51% of the club, is it the shareholders (you, me etc...) that will be able to vote on behalf of HSL or will the vote be made by the directors on behalf of the HSL shareholders?

It's one member one vote.

Oscar T Grouch
14-01-2015, 01:31 PM
if I understand you correctly .....does that mean if I want to own my shares they will not count as part of the HSL holding and effectively will not help achieve the 51% fan ownership ?

As I understand it, shareholders will be made up of Hibs supports directly and HSL, both of these should combine to equal 51%, of all shares are sold. I maybe wrong though, I am certainly no expert.

Ken
14-01-2015, 01:33 PM
It's one member one vote.

Cheers

green&left
14-01-2015, 01:37 PM
So to clarify if you want to buy shares via a monthly contribution you need to do so via HSL who in turn will "own" the shares?

And if you want to buy shares in a lump sum and own the shares directly yourself you can do so aswell direct to Hibs? (or one of the holding companies?)

Either way I'm in :thumbsup:

Hopefully one of the admins or those in the ITK can do a nice simple factsheet and breakdown for those not so clue'd up on the matter like myself.

7062
14-01-2015, 01:39 PM
Is it likely that there will be a minimum amount of shares you would need to buy if you wanted to buy them direct from Hibs? Eg £250, £500

Andy74
14-01-2015, 01:42 PM
Isn't this just the same as BuyHibs with a slightly better and more well timed launch?

Ken
14-01-2015, 01:46 PM
Isn't this just the same as BuyHibs with a slightly better and more well timed launch?

Almost an identical set up, but as you say better timing.

HSL have an agreed plan with the club and the funds raised will go to the club so it's a lot more attractive than the BuyHibs proposal.

Andy74
14-01-2015, 01:47 PM
Almost an identical set up, but as you say better timing.

HSL have an agreed plan with the club and the funds raised will go to the club so it's a lot more attractive than the BuyHibs proposal.

Funds raised going to the club is a very important point!

NYHibby
14-01-2015, 01:50 PM
Mikey, once HSL acquire the shares in the club do you know how voting on club matters will work? For example if HSL own 51% of the club, is it the shareholders (you, me etc...) that will be able to vote on behalf of HSL or will the vote be made by the directors on behalf of the HSL shareholders?

It would be HSL's directors, or whoever they appoint.

HSL's shares in the club would vote the same way as HFC Holdings' shares vote. HSL is the owner of the shares, not the members of HSL. Just as Rod could not show up to the club’s AGM and vote 10% of HFC Holdings’ shares, as a member of HSL you couldn't show up and vote 1/Nth of HSL's shares.

HSL would hold its own meetings to conduct its business. That is where its members vote.

GreenPJ
14-01-2015, 01:51 PM
So to clarify if you want to buy shares via a monthly contribution you need to do so via HSL who in turn will "own" the shares?

And if you want to buy shares in a lump sum and own the shares directly yourself you can do so aswell direct to Hibs? (or one of the holding companies?)

Either way I'm in :thumbsup:

Hopefully one of the admins or those in the ITK can do a nice simple factsheet and breakdown for those not so clue'd up on the matter like myself.

The one other 'minor' difference between buying shares and buying into HSL is that there is a guarantee that HSL monies will be spent on sporting ambition - the asset used to purchase your share does not have that guarantee. Admittedly I don't think I have seen what defines "sporting ambition" and so assuming no set out definition it could potentially mean stadium improvement or meeting the running costs of East Mains.

Ken
14-01-2015, 01:52 PM
It would be HSL's directors, or whoever they appoint.

HSL's shares in the club would vote the same way as HFC Holdings' shares vote. HSL is the owner of the shares, not the members of HSL. Just as Rod could not show up to the club’s AGM and vote 10% of HFC Holdings’ shares, as a member of HSL you couldn't show up to the club's AGM and vote 1/Nh of HSL's shares.

NYH, Mikey confirmed in his most recent post that it would be 1 vote per shareholder of HSL.

CB_NO3
14-01-2015, 01:56 PM
Ill pay an annual sum of £225 to safe guard the club but its defo a case of bittersweet from me. We are paying for the boards major f ups IMO. It looked like the debt figure was going to be around 9-10 million before Farmer made this bank deal which is scary for a failing football club.

All I can do is put my trust and faith in Dempster because I sure don't trust Petrie and Farmer to run this club well.

NYHibby
14-01-2015, 01:56 PM
NYH, Mikey confirmed in his most recent post that it would be 1 vote per shareholder of HSL.

I think he is talking about voting for HSL's matters and not the Club's.

Ken
14-01-2015, 01:59 PM
I think he is talking about voting for HSL's matters and not the Club's.

I wouldn't have thought so with the way my question was worded. Mikey can you clarify?

Andy74
14-01-2015, 01:59 PM
NYH, Mikey confirmed in his most recent post that it would be 1 vote per shareholder of HSL.

For HSL business.

HSL would have voting power in Hibs to whatever percentage they own at each point.

This for me this is a slight issue, it gives them a collective power, in a few individuals, to represent the smaller 'shareholders'.

Small direct holders if the HSL wasn't an option, would of course have very little voice themsleves, but thenm again they wouldn't have a major holder like this amongst the holders.

So if you want to own shares direct now you have the politics of the main Hibs board and HSL to keep an eye on.

GreenPJ
14-01-2015, 02:07 PM
For HSL business.

HSL would have voting power in Hibs to whatever percentage they own at each point.

This for me this is a slight issue, it gives them a collective power, in a few individuals, to represent the smaller 'shareholders'.

Small direct holders if the HSL wasn't an option, would of course have very little voice themsleves, but thenm again they wouldn't have a major holder like this amongst the holders.

So if you want to own shares direct now you have the politics of the main Hibs board and HSL to keep an eye on.

Why? Surely if you own shares directly you are only really interested in the Hibs main board - that is ultimately where decisions are made?

Andy74
14-01-2015, 02:17 PM
Why? Surely if you own shares directly you are only really interested in the Hibs main board - that is ultimately where decisions are made?

They will be a major holder of shares - possibly the biggest shareholder and owner in the near future. As a minority shareholder you should concern yourself with the impact/voice/voting power etc of a pretty large and potentially controlling interest in your company.

Mikey
14-01-2015, 02:21 PM
The one other 'minor' difference between buying shares and buying into HSL is that there is a guarantee that HSL monies will be spent on sporting ambition - the asset used to purchase your share does not have that guarantee. Admittedly I don't think I have seen what defines "sporting ambition" and so assuming no set out definition it could potentially mean stadium improvement or meeting the running costs of East Mains.

Check the Q&A with LD (it's in the vault). The definition of Sporting Ambition was covered there.

GreenPJ
14-01-2015, 02:33 PM
They will be a major holder of shares - possibly the biggest shareholder and owner in the near future. As a minority shareholder you should concern yourself with the impact/voice/voting power etc of a pretty large and potentially controlling interest in your company.

I still don't get it - if you are bothered about the governance or decision making of that holiding company then buy into it. It will have more influence than being a minor shareholder.

Andy74
14-01-2015, 02:56 PM
I still don't get it - if you are bothered about the governance or decision making of that holiding company then buy into it. It will have more influence than being a minor shareholder.

It's the potential influence it has on the company you own. Not the decision making of that company in itself.

Why do people worry about the people building stakes in Rangers for example?

givescotlandfreedom
14-01-2015, 03:04 PM
I'll chip in if there's a payment plan or a low entry option of buying direct. I just want to be able to say I own a bit of the club, so the technical stuff doesn't bother me too much. Can we have this emotionally advertised on the front page of the EEN too please for balance.

Mikey
14-01-2015, 03:19 PM
I'll chip in if there's a payment plan or a low entry option of buying direct

Minimum purchase if buying shares yourself is £200.

ancient hibee
14-01-2015, 03:20 PM
VEery

givescotlandfreedom
14-01-2015, 04:00 PM
Minimum purchase if buying shares yourself is £200.

Time to start hiding cash from the wife again!

Andy74
14-01-2015, 04:02 PM
Time to start hiding cash from the wife again!

Is there ever a time to stop doing that?

lucky
14-01-2015, 04:04 PM
I wouldn't think so. Buying a small amount yourself and also contributing to HSL would cover that.

I agree, typo when posting

GreenPJ
14-01-2015, 04:08 PM
It's the potential influence it has on the company you own. Not the decision making of that company in itself.

Why do people worry about the people building stakes in Rangers for example?

There is a lot of people who invested into Rangers to make money particularly when the penny shares on AIM looked as if it could be a nice quick return. I honestly do not believe there would be anyone investing in Hibs as an individual who is truly investing to make a financial return.

Andy74
14-01-2015, 04:14 PM
There is a lot of people who invested into Rangers to make money particularly when the penny shares on AIM looked as if it could be a nice quick return. I honestly do not believe there would be anyone investing in Hibs as an individual who is truly investing to make a financial return.

No but there are other ambitions or interests that you may have to watch for.

In principle all shareholders should be interested in any parties that hold a large or influential position.

There are rules around concert parties and stake building levels for good reasons out in the real world.

It is whatever way you look at it the creation of what will be an influential body at the club. That wasn't necessarily the case when supporters buying shares was first mentioned.

greenginger
14-01-2015, 04:15 PM
There is a lot of people who invested into Rangers to make money particularly when the penny shares on AIM looked as if it could be a nice quick return. I honestly do not believe there would be anyone investing in Hibs as an individual who is truly investing to make a financial return.


Too true. The grandchildren will all be getting a sizeable amount of the new issue to go with their nest eggs.

After all, why should they live stress-free lives. :greengrin

GreenPJ
14-01-2015, 04:30 PM
No but there are other ambitions or interests that you may have to watch for.

In principle all shareholders should be interested in any parties that hold a large or influential position.

There are rules around concert parties and stake building levels for good reasons out in the real world.

It is whatever way you look at it the creation of what will be an influential body at the club. That wasn't necessarily the case when supporters buying shares was first mentioned.

In the real world you would be investing to make a return and I agree you would want to carry out all levels of diligence but the truth is for the vast majority of people who thought that this concept was a good idea it is about emotionally investing into their football team to improve what they are watching every Saturday and that they could have a say in the running of our Club.

HSL is there to represent them as 'investors' and is governed by people who are multi-skilled and all with a love of Hibernian at heart. Whilst the make up of this board needs to have a governance structure and be transparent I also think its important that we don't overly complicate this whole concept and potentially dissuade people from "investing".

Andy74
14-01-2015, 04:41 PM
In the real world you would be investing to make a return and I agree you would want to carry out all levels of diligence but the truth is for the vast majority of people who thought that this concept was a good idea it is about emotionally investing into their football team to improve what they are watching every Saturday and that they could have a say in the running of our Club.

HSL is there to represent them as 'investors' and is governed by people who are multi-skilled and all with a love of Hibernian at heart. Whilst the make up of this board needs to have a governance structure and be transparent I also think its important that we don't overly complicate this whole concept and potentially dissuade people from "investing".

I'm not talking about investing or looking for any return.

Put simply the club advised a few weeks ago that we could all do our bit and put money into the club and at the same time own a bit of it. Over time we could collectively own the majority of it.

Today has overlayed another part to this - the creation of a group that will be led by a board of individuals, some I know, some I don't and who will no doubt all have Hibs interests at heart. They will no doubt do a great job of looking after the interests of their members - and by that I'm not talking investment or return but in ensuring we get what we all should want from Hibs.

Those that like the idea of owning a bit of the club direct should be aware though that they aren't part of that group and will want to be aware of how that group acts as it grows in size and voting power. It will ultimately, if the numbers work out that way be the biggest shareholder in the club. That's not quite the same concept as a lot of us owning bits of the club all in the same boat as small holders.

We all know how committees and spokespeople quite often turn out....its just something to be aware of for those that wanted to be direct owners.

offshorehibby
14-01-2015, 04:44 PM
Firstly, the board of HSL isn't set in stone, once this is up and running i would imagine the HSL membership would then decide who was on the board. Is this board not just to get the ball rolling.

Secondly, i'm sure i've read somewhere today that people owning individual blocks of shares whether it be the lowest or highest only get 1 vote. Would this not be the case for HSL, no matter how many shares they own the would as a group only get one vote. Or have i just imagined reading that.

In theory it would only take 12,500 fans taking up the option of the lowest block of shares to reach the goal of £2.5M.

greenginger
14-01-2015, 05:13 PM
Firstly, the board of HSL isn't set in stone, once this is up and running i would imagine the HSL membership would then decide who was on the board. Is this board not just to get the ball rolling.

Secondly, i'm sure i've read somewhere today that people owning individual blocks of shares whether it be the lowest or highest only get 1 vote. Would this not be the case for HSL, no matter how many shares they own the would as a group only get one vote. Or have i just imagined reading that.

In theory it would only take 12,500 fans taking up the option of the lowest block of shares to reach the goal of £2.5M.


12,500 new share holders :confused:

Where could we have our AGM. Maybe the board on the pitch with a tent over their heads :greengrin

emerald green
14-01-2015, 05:35 PM
Apologies if these questions have been raised and/or answered already. I haven't read the whole thread.

If you contribute £225pa (or £18.75pm) to HSL is that an open-ended commitment, or can you start paying in and then stop sometime further down the road say if you lost your job and needed to cut back on outgoings?

What happens if and when the ultimate aim of raising £2.5m is achieved? Do all payments to HSL stop at that point in time, or what?

offshorehibby
14-01-2015, 05:45 PM
12,500 new share holders :confused:

Where could we have our AGM. Maybe the board on the pitch with a tent over their heads :greengrin

Obviously this is the basic calculation. I would imagine some people would take up the higher offers reducing that figure.

NAE NOOKIE
14-01-2015, 05:50 PM
I'm a bit confused with this:

Though I understand why Hibs have gone down this route I am having a bit of a struggle reconciling giving money to a group who will then use the money to buy shares in Hibs. How does that make me a fan who part owns ( even a tiny part of ) his football club? Will I be a part owner of HSL rather than Hibs? and if I am how does that give me the right to say I am one of a group of fans who own Hibs any more than a guy who owns shares in Volkswagen can say he is a part owner of Wolfsburg F.C.?

If I am a part owner of HSL who part own HFC, will I have any sort of document I can stick in a frame which shows I at least have a stake in the ownership of Hibs .... which after all is the only thing any of us want, knowing that in effect any shares in HSL or HFC are in reality worthless.

I am also a bit confused over what the payment structure is all about. If I commit to £250 for the first year and the 2.5 million is raised by the end of that year, what happens then? Is my commitment over?

If the 2.5 million is not raised in the first year and I cant afford to continue payment into the following year does that mean I no longer have a stake in HSL ( never mind Hibs ) and I have handed over £250 which though it may benefit Hibs, leaves me in no different a situation as a supporter of the club than if I had walked into the office and handed over £250 and said "here have this" and then walked out again?

Help !

matty_f
14-01-2015, 05:51 PM
I'm not talking about investing or looking for any return.

Put simply the club advised a few weeks ago that we could all do our bit and put money into the club and at the same time own a bit of it. Over time we could collectively own the majority of it.

Today has overlayed another part to this - the creation of a group that will be led by a board of individuals, some I know, some I don't and who will no doubt all have Hibs interests at heart. They will no doubt do a great job of looking after the interests of their members - and by that I'm not talking investment or return but in ensuring we get what we all should want from Hibs.

Those that like the idea of owning a bit of the club direct should be aware though that they aren't part of that group and will want to be aware of how that group acts as it grows in size and voting power. It will ultimately, if the numbers work out that way be the biggest shareholder in the club. That's not quite the same concept as a lot of us owning bits of the club all in the same boat as small holders.

We all know how committees and spokespeople quite often turn out....its just something to be aware of for those that wanted to be direct owners.

I get what you're saying here but I'd question whether it makes much difference in practice? I'll know that if I go down the route of becoming an individual shareholder it's fairly unlikely that I'll have anything resembling a significant say in events anyway, and given that the group of individuals will be representing people who are essentially like me, it's not that likely that their views would be massively at odds with mine on all but a small number of issues.

NYHibby
14-01-2015, 06:13 PM
If the 2.5 million is not raised in the first year and I cant afford to continue payment into the following year does that mean I no longer have a stake in HSL ( never mind Hibs ) and I have handed over £250 which though it may benefit Hibs, leaves me in no different a situation as a supporter of the club than if I had walked into the office and handed over £250 and said "here have this" and then walked out again?

Help !

I'm not sure how HSL in particular will handle this, but in general it is possible that you would no longer be considered to be a member of the CLG and therefore lose your vote in HSL. It is possible that HSL will have multiple classes of members and you would change from being an actively contributing member to some sort of non-contributing member.

At the risk of oversimplifying CLGs, you may want to think of HSL as a club where you can vote for the club's board and have to pay dues to cover the club's cost (buying shares). But you don't actually own part of the club (in the equity sense).

Andy74
14-01-2015, 06:32 PM
I get what you're saying here but I'd question whether it makes much difference in practice? I'll know that if I go down the route of becoming an individual shareholder it's fairly unlikely that I'll have anything resembling a significant say in events anyway, and given that the group of individuals will be representing people who are essentially like me, it's not that likely that their views would be massively at odds with mine on all but a small number of issues.

The difference is the creation of that major holder that wouldn't have been there otherwise. Not a major issue but it's worth keeping an eye on. These things can sometimes be problematic once you get ambitions and politics on boards and committees.

NAE NOOKIE
14-01-2015, 06:36 PM
I'm not sure how HSL in particular will handle this, but in general it is possible that you would no longer be considered to be a member of the CLG and therefore lose your vote in HSL. It is possible that HSL will have multiple classes of members and you would change from being an actively contributing member to some sort of non-contributing member.

At the risk of oversimplifying CLGs, you may want to think of HSL as a club where you can vote for the club's board and have to pay dues to cover the club's cost (buying shares). But you don't actually own part of the club (in the equity sense).

Hmmmm :hmmm:

matty_f
14-01-2015, 06:43 PM
The difference is the creation of that major holder that wouldn't have been there otherwise. Not a major issue but it's worth keeping an eye on. These things can sometimes be problematic once you get ambitions and politics on boards and committees.

:aok: I agree with that.

hibby6270
14-01-2015, 10:20 PM
I'm a bit confused with this:

Though I understand why Hibs have gone down this route I am having a bit of a struggle reconciling giving money to a group who will then use the money to buy shares in Hibs. How does that make me a fan who part owns ( even a tiny part of ) his football club? Will I be a part owner of HSL rather than Hibs? and if I am how does that give me the right to say I am one of a group of fans who own Hibs any more than a guy who owns shares in Volkswagen can say he is a part owner of Wolfsburg F.C.?

If I am a part owner of HSL who part own HFC, will I have any sort of document I can stick in a frame which shows I at least have a stake in the ownership of Hibs .... which after all is the only thing any of us want, knowing that in effect any shares in HSL or HFC are in reality worthless.

I am also a bit confused over what the payment structure is all about. If I commit to £250 for the first year and the 2.5 million is raised by the end of that year, what happens then? Is my commitment over?

If the 2.5 million is not raised in the first year and I cant afford to continue payment into the following year does that mean I no longer have a stake in HSL ( never mind Hibs ) and I have handed over £250 which though it may benefit Hibs, leaves me in no different a situation as a supporter of the club than if I had walked into the office and handed over £250 and said "here have this" and then walked out again?

Help !
.net subscribers are not going to like it but the above comment sums up exactly what this so called "opportunity not to be missed" appears to mean.

From what I've read elsewhere here, and on the official site, effectively we are just contributing additional cash to the football club's running costs. No more than the club say, coming out to Season Ticket Holders and saying next seasons ST is going to be £225 dearer than it was for this season.

Unless there is some form of "token" share certificate provided as part of this deal, this really does seem to be a jumped up way to get supporters to donate cash to the club.

I'd like to proved wrong but given the comments in other threads about high walk up prices this season in relation to our Championship league status, there doesn't seem to be much difference in paying over cash for high priced game tickets, to that of paying a lump sum or monthly sum of cash to the club for a so called "ownership stake" (albeit 2nd, even 3rd hand) in the club.

Don't get me wrong, I don't disagree with the principle of majority fan ownership, I just don't think that from what I've read so far that this scheme is going to be the individual share ownership scheme that many will have hoped for or expected.

hibby6270
14-01-2015, 10:27 PM
At the risk of oversimplifying CLGs, you may want to think of HSL as a club where you can vote for the club's board and have to pay dues to cover the club's cost (buying shares). But you don't actually own part of the club (in the equity sense).

This is what I was trying to say in my earlier post. :agree:

Mikey
14-01-2015, 10:29 PM
.net subscribers are not going to like it but........

Why's that then?

Andy74
14-01-2015, 10:33 PM
.net subscribers are not going to like it but the above comment sums up exactly what this so called "opportunity not to be missed" appears to mean.

From what I've read elsewhere here, and on the official site, effectively we are just contributing additional cash to the football club's running costs. No more than the club say, coming out to Season Ticket Holders and saying next seasons ST is going to be £225 dearer than it was for this season.

Unless there is some form of "token" share certificate provided as part of this deal, this really does seem to be a jumped up way to get supporters to donate cash to the club.

I'd like to proved wrong but given the comments in other threads about high walk up prices this season in relation to our Championship league status, there doesn't seem to be much difference in paying over cash for high priced game tickets, to that of paying a lump sum or monthly sum of cash to the club for a so called "ownership stake" (albeit 2nd, even 3rd hand) in the club.

Don't get me wrong, I don't disagree with the principle of majority fan ownership, I just don't think that from what I've read so far that this scheme is going to be the individual share ownership scheme that many will have hoped for or expected.

Agree with this.

I think they should have found a better way around the regulations they appear to think are causing issues with fans buying direct.

This is far more of a donation with nothing to show for it.

Mikey
14-01-2015, 10:58 PM
Agree with this.

I think they should have found a better way around the regulations they appear to think are causing issues with fans buying direct.

This is far more of a donation with nothing to show for it.

They spent a lot if time working with the FCA and an experienced IFA and what we've got is the best they were allowed to come up with.

The restrictions are really..... erm....... restricting :greengrin

Andy74
14-01-2015, 11:05 PM
They spent a lot if time working with the FCA and an experienced IFA and what we've got is the best they were allowed to come up with.

The restrictions are really..... erm....... restricting :greengrin

The FCA still think they were right making these regulations. The IFA is expected to say no people don't need to go to an IFA?

Not having it.

Mikey
14-01-2015, 11:10 PM
The basics, all in one place.....

http://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?297222-Hibernian-FC-Share-Issue-The-Basics

Andy74
14-01-2015, 11:13 PM
The basics, all in one place.....

http://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?297222-Hibernian-FC-Share-Issue-The-Basics

Let me guess. Is the IFA they will offer the details for the one who advised they need to do this? 😉

hibby6270
14-01-2015, 11:16 PM
Why's that then?

The scheme isn't (or doesn't appear on the face of it on what's been published so far) a scheme to give individuals an equity stake in the football club. That, myself included, was what we maybe thought was going to be on offer.

That said, on an emotional investment basis, it will suit many, and yes technically, subscribers will have a stake in the club albeit through the 3rd party company HSL.

When I get my letter/offer document, I'll personally consider it nevertheless.

Capt Mainwaring
14-01-2015, 11:30 PM
In the real world you would be investing to make a return and I agree you would want to carry out all levels of diligence but the truth is for the vast majority of people who thought that this concept was a good idea it is about emotionally investing into their football team to improve what they are watching every Saturday and that they could have a say in the running of our Club.

HSL is there to represent them as 'investors' and is governed by people who are multi-skilled and all with a love of Hibernian at heart. Whilst the make up of this board needs to have a governance structure and be transparent I also think its important that we don't overly complicate this whole concept and potentially dissuade people from "investing".

Well put.

Seems to me that HSL will work in the same way for Hibs and Hibs fans as the Foundation of Hearts do across the other side of town. Holding a block vote on behalf of fans who make the funding contributions that ultimately lands in the hands of the football club.

Works for me

Calum68
14-01-2015, 11:37 PM
.net subscribers are not going to like it but the above comment sums up exactly what this so called "opportunity not to be missed" appears to mean.

From what I've read elsewhere here, and on the official site, effectively we are just contributing additional cash to the football club's running costs. No more than the club say, coming out to Season Ticket Holders and saying next seasons ST is going to be £225 dearer than it was for this season.

Unless there is some form of "token" share certificate provided as part of this deal, this really does seem to be a jumped up way to get supporters to donate cash to the club.

I'd like to proved wrong but given the comments in other threads about high walk up prices this season in relation to our Championship league status, there doesn't seem to be much difference in paying over cash for high priced game tickets, to that of paying a lump sum or monthly sum of cash to the club for a so called "ownership stake" (albeit 2nd, even 3rd hand) in the club.

Don't get me wrong, I don't disagree with the principle of majority fan ownership, I just don't think that from what I've read so far that this scheme is going to be the individual share ownership scheme that many will have hoped for or expected.

I don't pretend to understand the benefits of buying shares in a company that it turn buys shares in the club vs buying shares in the club directly. Think it would be a lot easier just buying an extra ST. As you say, we're just contributing cash to the club. either way.

Eyrie
14-01-2015, 11:42 PM
Let me guess. Is the IFA they will offer the details for the one who advised they need to do this? 
Would it be restricted to one IFA? They'd have a fair bit of work to do on identifying new clients, and what about those supporters who already have their own IFA?


The scheme isn't (or doesn't appear on the face of it on what's been published so far) a scheme to give individuals an equity stake in the football club. That, myself included, was what we maybe thought was going to be on offer.

That said, on an emotional investment basis, it will suit many, and yes technically, subscribers will have a stake in the club albeit through the 3rd party company HSL.

When I get my letter/offer document, I'll personally consider it nevertheless.
My understanding is that you can still buy shares in your own name. That way you do get a share certificate in the name of "hibby6270" for your donation.

Ken
15-01-2015, 12:03 AM
I can understand everyone's concerns and agree with the previous post regarding what happens when you stop contributing and this needs clarified. What I would like and expect to happen is as per the follow example:

Group 1
825 fans buy shares with a one-off £1,000 payment each

Group2
2000 fans buy shares with a one-off £500 payment each

Group 3
3000 fans buy shares at £18.75 for 12 months (£225 each)

The above totals £2.5m, therefore

Group 1 supporters will each own 0.04% of HSL (825x0.04=33%)

Group 2 supporters will each own 0.02% of HSL (2000x0.02=40%)

Group 3 supporters will each own 0.009% of HSL (3000x0.009=27%)

At this point I would hope and expect all payment plans and one-off contribution to stop and your shares in HSL and effectively Hibernian Football Club will remain in place.

Ronniekirk
15-01-2015, 08:29 AM
Agree with this.

I think they should have found a better way around the regulations they appear to think are causing issues with fans buying direct.

This is far more of a donation with nothing to show for it.

It the 2 .5 million is raised and used solely for the benefit of the Football Club then hopefully if Stubbs is still here what we will have is a better team on the park as surely we have all the infrastructure and Backroom Staff in place now .
If I can contribute to a better Team on the Park that will do for me or am I being naive in this view

NAE NOOKIE
15-01-2015, 11:15 AM
Its not rocket science in the end. Whether it be as a member of HSL or a direct shareholder all fans want for their money is a wee bit of paper proving that they were willing to either invest in a company / group whose sole purpose is 51% ownership of Hibs, or to show they have a stake in the club they love as a private shareholder.

If sinking £250 or more into HSL doesn't come with documentary evidence that you have been willing to invest in this emotional attachment then as I stated before, you might just as well hand in the cash at the office and walk away.

RSS Bot
15-01-2015, 12:20 PM
Leeann Dempster is confident that Hibs supporters will embrace the opportunity to have a greater say in the running of their club.




More... (http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/leeann-dempster-share-plan-is-exciting-1-3662015)

hibby6270
15-01-2015, 02:03 PM
Its not rocket science in the end. Whether it be as a member of HSL or a direct shareholder all fans want for their money is a wee bit of paper proving that they were willing to either invest in a company / group whose sole purpose is 51% ownership of Hibs, or to show they have a stake in the club they love as a private shareholder.

If sinking £250 or more into HSL doesn't come with documentary evidence that you have been willing to invest in this emotional attachment then as I stated before, you might just as well hand in the cash at the office and walk away.

Agreed.

Will HSL provide a certificate? That's not entirely clear yet.

Eric
15-01-2015, 02:33 PM
Agreed.

Will HSL provide a certificate? That's not entirely clear yet.

Thanks to Mikey we have a very clear statement:

http://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?297222-Hibernian-FC-Share-Issue-The-Basics

Subscribing through HSL makes you a member of HSL and not a shareholder. Therefore no share certificate.:thumbsup:

Geo_1875
15-01-2015, 02:40 PM
Thanks to Mikey we have a very clear statement:

http://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?297222-Hibernian-FC-Share-Issue-The-Basics

Subscribing through HSA makes you a member of HSA and not a shareholder. Therefore no share certificate.:thumbsup:

Another membership card to stick in your wallet?

Kyle A
15-01-2015, 03:30 PM
It all sounds like a way to raise extra capital (admirable)for the club while also taking away blame for future failures away from Petrie. I'm also very
uncomfortable with a sitting member of the club board sitting on the board of the company trying to buy the club.

Cammy
15-01-2015, 03:42 PM
I can understand everyone's concerns and agree with the previous post regarding what happens when you stop contributing and this needs clarified. What I would like and expect to happen is as per the follow example:

Group 1
825 fans buy shares with a one-off £1,000 payment each

Group2
2000 fans buy shares with a one-off £500 payment each

Group 3
3000 fans buy shares at £18.75 for 12 months (£225 each)

The above totals £2.5m, therefore

Group 1 supporters will each own 0.04% of HSL (825x0.04=33%)

Group 2 supporters will each own 0.02% of HSL (2000x0.02=40%)

Group 3 supporters will each own 0.009% of HSL (3000x0.009=27%)

At this point I would hope and expect all payment plans and one-off contribution to stop and your shares in HSL and effectively Hibernian Football Club will remain in place.

This is fundamental for me. If I contribute through HSL I want to know if I will have a share in HSL and therefore indirectly HFC. If however, I contribute for a while and then stop, what happens? If the above was the situation I would definitely contribute to HSL, however if as has been suggested your contribution only gives you a membership, which may or may not lapse, then this would not be attractive to me and I would go direct to buy the shares instead.

CropleyWasGod
15-01-2015, 03:44 PM
This is fundamental for me. If I contribute through HSL I want to know if I will have a share in HSL and therefore indirectly HFC. If however, I contribute for a while and then stop, what happens? If the above was the situation I would definitely contribute to HSL, however if as has been suggested your contribution only gives you a membership, which may or may not lapse, then this would not be attractive to me and I would go direct to buy the shares instead.

HSL is a company Limited by Guarantee, therefore it doesn't have a share capital. You would be a member.

Members should be aware that, in the event of the company being wound up, they would probably be expected to contribute an amount to the winding-up; that's the nature of the "guarantee". In normal cases, that's £1, but you should establish that first.

Cammy
15-01-2015, 03:54 PM
HSL is a company Limited by Guarantee, therefore it doesn't have a share capital. You would be a member.

Members should be aware that, in the event of the company being wound up, they would probably be expected to contribute an amount to the winding-up; that's the nature of the "guarantee". In normal cases, that's £1, but you should establish that first.

Thanks for the clarity CWG. In that case I'll be going direct.:aok:

Geo_1875
15-01-2015, 04:27 PM
HSL is a company Limited by Guarantee, therefore it doesn't have a share capital. You would be a member.

Members should be aware that, in the event of the company being wound up, they would probably be expected to contribute an amount to the winding-up; that's the nature of the "guarantee". In normal cases, that's £1, but you should establish that first.

I'm more concerned with what the running costs are likely to be as surely that will be deducted from "membership fees" and thus the monies used to buy shares in the football club.

CropleyWasGod
15-01-2015, 04:29 PM
I'm more concerned with what the running costs are likely to be as surely that will be deducted from "membership fees" and thus the monies used to buy shares in the football club.

It's a fair point. If anyone is thinking of going down that route, it might be worthwhile asking the question.

hibby6270
15-01-2015, 04:48 PM
Thanks to Mikey we have a very clear statement:

http://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?297222-Hibernian-FC-Share-Issue-The-Basics

Subscribing through HSL makes you a member of HSL and not a shareholder. Therefore no share certificate.:thumbsup:

Yes - I realise this.

My point is that many initial impressions were that subscribers would be shareholders of the club on an individual basis. I appreciate that is NOT going to be the case and trying to make any doubters aware and to be sure they know what they are signing up to.

The heart will rule the head in many cases and at the end of the day the objective of the scheme is to provide capital to the club. In no way do I want it to fail. Just pointing the "elephant in the room" that some might not see.

CB_NO3
15-01-2015, 05:02 PM
Thanks for the clarity CWG. In that case I'll be going direct.:aok:
How do you do that? And does the money still go to the sporting ambition fund?

Cammy
16-01-2015, 12:25 AM
How do you do that? And does the money still go to the sporting ambition fund?

I don't have the information pack yet, but I would imagine it should tell you in there the process for the new share application.

Weststandwanab
16-01-2015, 08:15 AM
Thanks for the clarity CWG. In that case I'll be going direct.:aok:

I think l will be too.

Do you have an IFA in mind to use ?

Caversham Green
16-01-2015, 08:53 AM
How do you do that? And does the money still go to the sporting ambition fund?

In answer to your question about the sporting ambition fund - the club says that all the money from the share issue will go there so yes it does. The only time your money would go to existing shareholders would be if you bought their shares from them.

Cammy
16-01-2015, 09:33 AM
I think l will be too.

Do you have an IFA in mind to use ?

Unless there is something that states I have to go through an IFA I wont be using one. The IFA is there to give advice and make recommendations. In this case it would be execution only as I don't need advice or recommendations. Therefore, if it is possible I would apply on my own. I just need the offer pack to tell me if this is possible.

Weststandwanab
16-01-2015, 09:37 AM
Unless there is something that states I have to go through an IFA I wont be using one. The IFA is there to give advice and make recommendations. In this case it would be execution only as I don't need advice or recommendations. Therefore, if it is possible I would apply on my own. I just need the offer pack to tell me if this is possible.

Cheers.

If you get a pack and find out how it is done would you let me know please ?

Cammy
16-01-2015, 09:39 AM
Cheers.

If you get a pack and find out how it is done would you let me know please ?

Will do :aok:

Brightside
16-01-2015, 09:56 AM
Its really not that complicated. If you cannot afford to buy shares direct they have set up a monthly payment plan (or lump sum) where you join with other fans for a blocks of shares. You will then become a member of that group. I'm sure if you ask nicely they will send you a wee bit of paper telling you that.
Totally not surprised to see some fans thinking they are being screwed by "the board" :rolleyes:

andrew70
16-01-2015, 09:58 AM
Its really not that complicated. If you cannot afford to buy shares direct they have set up a monthly payment plan (or lump sum) where you join with other fans for a blocks of shares. You will then become a member of that group. I'm sure if you ask nicely they will send you a wee bit of paper telling you that.
Totally not surprised to see some fans thinking they are being screwed by "the board" :rolleyes:

Sorry if it's been covered previously but are you able to buy direct as well as buy through HSL?

Brightside
16-01-2015, 09:58 AM
This is fundamental for me. If I contribute through HSL I want to know if I will have a share in HSL and therefore indirectly HFC. If however, I contribute for a while and then stop, what happens? If the above was the situation I would definitely contribute to HSL, however if as has been suggested your contribution only gives you a membership, which may or may not lapse, then this would not be attractive to me and I would go direct to buy the shares instead.

No you wont have a share.

Brightside
16-01-2015, 10:19 AM
Sorry if it's been covered previously but are you able to buy direct as well as buy through HSL?

Yes.

Andy74
16-01-2015, 10:28 AM
Its really not that complicated. If you cannot afford to buy shares direct they have set up a monthly payment plan (or lump sum) where you join with other fans for a blocks of shares. You will then become a member of that group. I'm sure if you ask nicely they will send you a wee bit of paper telling you that.
Totally not surprised to see some fans thinking they are being screwed by "the board" :rolleyes:

It is a bit more complicated though as the buying direct option is quite important for some and it appears that the route being offered to do that may be very limiting.

Brightside
16-01-2015, 10:37 AM
It is a bit more complicated though as the buying direct option is quite important for some and it appears that the route being offered to do that may be very limiting.

Whats more complicated though Andy? There are obviously limits in the buying direct side of things as it would daft to allow 10,000 fans to buy handfulls of 4p shares.

The whole point is that its raising 2.5m that will go direct in to the sporting ambition of the club. Getting a certificate really shouldnt matter as the end game is the same. Raise 2.5m.

andrew70
16-01-2015, 10:38 AM
Yes.

Thanks, much appreciated

Andy74
16-01-2015, 10:46 AM
Whats more complicated though Andy? There are obviously limits in the buying direct side of things as it would daft to allow 10,000 fans to buy handfulls of 4p shares.

The whole point is that its raising 2.5m that will go direct in to the sporting ambition of the club. Getting a certificate really shouldnt matter as the end game is the same. Raise 2.5m.

I'm not talking about the monetary limits, as you say, handfuls of shares would be unfelpful.

I'm talking about the method of being able to buy shares direct which lloks like they are pointing you to go through an IFA.

Is the end game just raising £2.5 million? Why not just ask for people to hand in cash?

I thought part of the the end game was also more direct fan ownership and the dilution of power of the current ownership regime?

As it stands I'm not too fussed about fans owning the club and I already support the club where I can with cash so why should I hand money to HSL for them to own part of the club?

If I could give cash to the club and own shares direct in my own name, I'd be interested in that just for the hell of it.

GreenPJ
16-01-2015, 10:59 AM
I'm not talking about the monetary limits, as you say, handfuls of shares would be unfelpful.

I'm talking about the method of being able to buy shares direct which lloks like they are pointing you to go through an IFA.

Is the end game just raising £2.5 million? Why not just ask for people to hand in cash?

I thought part of the the end game was also more direct fan ownership and the dilution of power of the current ownership regime?

As it stands I'm not too fussed about fans owning the club and I already support the club where I can with cash so why should I hand money to HSL for them to own part of the club?

If I could give cash to the club and own shares direct in my own name, I'd be interested in that just for the hell of it.

Its not just about raising the cash though to improve the sporting ambition - it does mean that those HSL members will then ultimately control 51% of the Club going forward. The fact that you are not necessarily supportive of fan ownership does not mean that others aren't.

CropleyWasGod
16-01-2015, 11:07 AM
Its not just about raising the cash though to improve the sporting ambition - it does mean that those HSL members will then ultimately control 51% of the Club going forward. The fact that you are not necessarily supportive of fan ownership does not mean that others aren't.

That's not how I understand it.

Is it not that the HSL, plus those who have shares in the club individually, will have the 51% in total?

Andy74
16-01-2015, 11:19 AM
Its not just about raising the cash though to improve the sporting ambition - it does mean that those HSL members will then ultimately control 51% of the Club going forward. The fact that you are not necessarily supportive of fan ownership does not mean that others aren't.

That's my point yes. Fans though, not necessarily HSL.

GreenPJ
16-01-2015, 11:49 AM
That's not how I understand it.

Is it not that the HSL, plus those who have shares in the club individually, will have the 51% in total?

You might be right - what is the % of individual shareholders (obv exlcuding STF/RP)?

CropleyWasGod
16-01-2015, 11:50 AM
You might be right - what is the % of individual shareholders (obv exlcuding STF/RP)?

Approximately 2% at the moment.

Brightside
16-01-2015, 11:53 AM
That's not how I understand it.

Is it not that the HSL, plus those who have shares in the club individually, will have the 51% in total?

Correct. HSL may only have 10% or 27%... totally depends on take up of shares.

Brightside
16-01-2015, 11:57 AM
That's my point yes. Fans though, not necessarily HSL.

Yeh i get thats its about removing the "single owner" style model. But bottom line is the fans wont really run the new club. We are just being asked to fund a boost to the club, and at the same time the current owner is substantially discounting the sale in order to assist in that boost.

GreenPJ
16-01-2015, 11:57 AM
Approximately 2% at the moment.

So assuming the £2.5M target is met they would be joint major shareholder with the floating power lying with the 2% of individual shareholders?

Brightside
16-01-2015, 12:00 PM
So assuming the £2.5M target is met they would be joint major shareholder with the floating power lying with the 2% of individual shareholders?

There would be no majority shareholder. i think that is the point of selling 51%. It means STF (or whoever owns the 49% moving forward) cannot force any change on the club.

CropleyWasGod
16-01-2015, 12:02 PM
So assuming the £2.5M target is met they would be joint major shareholder with the floating power lying with the 2% of individual shareholders?

In theory, HSL could be the major shareholder on their own. I think that unlikely, however, as many individuals will buy shares directly.

GreenPJ
16-01-2015, 12:03 PM
There would be no majority shareholder. i think that is the point of selling 51%. It means STF (or whoever owns the 49% moving forward) cannot force any change on the club.

Sorry I meant joint major shareholder so assuming voting decisions are as simple as +50% the determining power then ultimately lies with the individual shareholders where HSL and STF disagreed on an issue.

Brightside
16-01-2015, 12:17 PM
Sorry I meant joint major shareholder so assuming voting decisions are as simple as +50% the determining power then ultimately lies with the individual shareholders where HSL and STF disagreed on an issue.

Yeh - and for me that and the £2.5m being punted into the "team" are the main reasons for the scheme.

CropleyWasGod
16-01-2015, 12:19 PM
Sorry I meant joint major shareholder so assuming voting decisions are as simple as +50% the determining power then ultimately lies with the individual shareholders where HSL and STF disagreed on an issue.
Don't think you're understanding this :)

Individual shareholders are currently 2%. In theory, they could have 51% after the issue.

offshorehibby
16-01-2015, 12:27 PM
In theory, HSL could be the major shareholder on their own. I think that unlikely, however, as many individuals will buy shares directly.


Don't think you're understanding this :)

Individual shareholders are currently 2%. In theory, they could have 51% after the issue.

So for this reason should we not be trying to promote the HSL route as the way to go.

I am currently a share holder so have my we bit of paper(if i can find it) and get to go to the AGM.

I was thinking of buying more shares directly and also in HSL, if i thought HSL would have a strong enough voice i would only buy through HSL

ronaldo7
16-01-2015, 12:30 PM
Buy hibs to meet HSL for further clarification.

offshorehibby
16-01-2015, 12:31 PM
Buy hibs to meet HSL for further clarification.
We have been asked what our thoughts are and the current update is;

BuyHibs note the launch of Hibernian Supporters Limited (HSL) which in general principle mirrors the proposals and structure launched by BuyHibs in November 2014 however at this point BuyHibs seek further detail and clarification of the proposals.

BuyHibs have been invited to meet Kenny MacAskill MSP Chairman of Hibernian Supporters Limited by Leeann Dempster and BuyHibs have requested this meeting take place as soon as possible to seek such further details and clarification.

BuyHibs will make a full statement subsequent to the clubs annual general meeting and the official launch of HSL on 2nd February 2015 at which point the details and clarifications should be known.

Mikey
16-01-2015, 12:33 PM
Buy hibs to meet HSL for further clarification.

Pat Stanton is the Chairman of BuyHibs and he's fully behind it. What's the issue?

Brightside
16-01-2015, 12:41 PM
when were buy hibs going to gift 2.5m to the club?

lucky
16-01-2015, 12:42 PM
BuyHibs is dead in the water. It's very unlikely that fans will join up with them compared to HSL. That said there is nothing stopping any groups of fans getting together to form a company and buying shares collectively

GreenPJ
16-01-2015, 01:04 PM
Don't think you're understanding this :)

Individual shareholders are currently 2%. In theory, they could have 51% after the issue.

This may be semantics but by the 51% you are including HSL?

CropleyWasGod
16-01-2015, 01:58 PM
This may be semantics but by the 51% you are including HSL?

Not necessarily.

If no-one subscribed to HSL, but there was £2.5m of subscriptions inidvidually, that would achieve the 51%.

Unlikely, of course, but possible.

Andy74
16-01-2015, 02:29 PM
Just another thing - buying direct would buy you an asset, which although is not easily traded, is an asset none the less and in theory could be sold.

Buying into HSL gets you a membership - for a period that I'm not clear on yet.

Is that really the intention of the FCA - to stop people from easily buying direct in case they are not sophisiticated enough to understand the implications of their investment and to instead turn that risky investment into a downright donation?

I'm hoping Hibs are still looking at alternative ways to accept direct purchases. I've seen other companies offer a self certification box to tick that does away wth the IFA need and confirms that you are aware of what you are buying into and that you are not investing more than 10% of your net investible assets.

grunt
16-01-2015, 02:38 PM
Buy hibs to meet HSL for further clarification.
Hopefully they will be clarifying how all their mysterious investors can sign up to HSL so that the club can benefit from their substantial investment. BuyHibs wanted a way to invest in the club and that's what they've got. Result.

ronaldo7
16-01-2015, 02:54 PM
Pat Stanton is the Chairman of BuyHibs and he's fully behind it. What's the issue?

No idea what the issue is, if any. Just posting some info for others to read ;-)

Mikey
16-01-2015, 02:57 PM
No idea what the issue is, if any. Just posting some info for others to read ;-)

Sorry, wasn't really directed at you :greengrin

ronaldo7
16-01-2015, 03:00 PM
Hopefully they will be clarifying how all their mysterious investors can sign up to HSL so that the club can benefit from their substantial investment. BuyHibs wanted a way to invest in the club and that's what they've got. Result.

I hope they all get their wallets out, it might save the rest of us some dosh.

Dashing Bob S
16-01-2015, 03:02 PM
Pat Stanton is the Chairman of BuyHibs and he's fully behind it. What's the issue?

Yes. Some people are looking for discord and conflict and more factionalism, but the way I'm seeing it is that things are starting to come together. Some fans groups are saying 'let's get involved' others are saying 'let's get more information'. Nothing wrong with either sentiment, nothing incompatible in them either.

Cammy
16-01-2015, 03:21 PM
:agree:
I'm not talking about the monetary limits, as you say, handfuls of shares would be unfelpful.

I'm talking about the method of being able to buy shares direct which lloks like they are pointing you to go through an IFA.

Is the end game just raising £2.5 million? Why not just ask for people to hand in cash?

I thought part of the the end game was also more direct fan ownership and the dilution of power of the current ownership regime?

As it stands I'm not too fussed about fans owning the club and I already support the club where I can with cash so why should I hand money to HSL for them to own part of the club?

If I could give cash to the club and own shares direct in my own name, I'd be interested in that just for the hell of it.

:agree: 100%

Cammy
16-01-2015, 03:35 PM
Just another thing - buying direct would buy you an asset, which although is not easily traded, is an asset none the less and in theory could be sold.

Buying into HSL gets you a membership - for a period that I'm not clear on yet.

Is that really the intention of the FCA - to stop people from easily buying direct in case they are not sophisiticated enough to understand the implications of their investment and to instead turn that risky investment into a downright donation?

I'm hoping Hibs are still looking at alternative ways to accept direct purchases. I've seen other companies offer a self certification box to tick that does away wth the IFA need and confirms that you are aware of what you are buying into and that you are not investing more than 10% of your net investible assets.

And also gives the possibility of passing the shares to your children in the future. I doubt you can do that with the membership of HSL.

RSS Bot
16-01-2015, 05:10 PM
More... (http://www.hibernianfc.co.uk/news/5114)

The past week has seen a lot of coverage of the Board’s plans to widen ownership by making it possible for supporters to own up to 51% of the shareholding in the Club – a controlling interest.

The intention is to create new shares, diluting current shareholders. Through the sale of these new shares the Club aims to raise £2.5 million. All of the money will go to support the football ambitions of the Club, and not to any existing shareholder – a key fact which makes the offer different from any other in Scottish football.

Supporters can gain a greater voice in their Club, and by doing so all of the money they commit will help fund the Club’s push to succeed on the pitch. Meantime the Board’s plan sees Easter Road Stadium and Hibernian Training Centre secure within the Club’s ownership.
If fully subscribed, new supporter shareholdings will account for 50% of the enlarged share capital while existing supporter shareholders already own shares which make up 1% of the enlarged shareholding, giving the total of 51% supporter ownership of the Club and all of its assets.

The plan has been developed over a number of months – but was made more difficult by legislative changes which came into force last autumn. These changes were designed to provide further protection to investors in shares which are not “readily realisable”. An unforeseen consequence is that they create a barrier for most football clubs who want to encourage supporter ownership. The creation of a public share offer and prospectus would be prohibitive and disproportionate to the money raised.

The Club has put forward three ways in which supporters can get involved from February 2nd when shares will be made available:

Option 1 – existing shareholders (who were on the share register as at 5pm on January 9th) can apply direct to the Club using the application form attached to the Information Memorandum enclosed with the pack of information sent to them on January 12th for the forthcoming AGM
Option 2 – the 20,000 adult supporters who are on the Club database because they have bought tickets for matches but who are not existing shareholders can apply to the Club to receive an Information Memorandum and application form by completing and returning the form on the back of the letter they will receive over the weekend. By returning the form countersigned by an IFA, they will be eligible to apply for shares. Any supporter who does not receive a letter from the Club by January 23rd can email the Club on shares@hibernianfc.co.uk to request a letter and request form.

Supporters can learn more about consulting IFAs via any of the following links;

http://www.vouchedfor.co.uk/financial-advisor-ifa/Edinburgh?gclid=CNaC-vnklcMCFaHHtAod9mEA0Q

https://www.unbiased.co.uk/advisers/financial-adviser/scotland/edinburgh

http://financial-advisor.independent.co.uk/search-for-ifa-partners/Edinburgh?gclid=CMympIvllcMCFbPItAodfTsAPg

http://www.local-financial-advisor.co.uk/

Option 3 – anyone who wishes to donate to broadening supporter ownership through a new vehicle established to buy and hold shares on behalf of supporters, rather than buying shares directly can find out more at www.hiberniansupporters.co.uk.


Existing shareholders: The Club has 1700 shareholders, and it is open to them to buy more shares. The Club issued an Information Memorandum to existing shareholders on January 12th explaining how they could subscribe for shares as of February 2nd. This process is not governed by the regulations which apply to non-shareholders.

Supporters on the Club database who wish to buy and own shares direct: Supporters on the Club’s database were written to by Chairman Rod Petrie today (January 15th). The Financial Services and Markets Act 2000 and related legislation provide protection for people buying shares in the Club which fall into the category of “non-readily realisable securities”. People in this group who wish to buy shares directly, and so receive a Hibernian FC share certificate, need to go through a process designed to comply with the legislation. That process – involving consulting an Independent Financial Adviser – is detailed in the letter they received. There is a form printed on the back of the letter which should be countersigned by an IFA and returned to the Club in order to receive an Information Memorandum. An application for shares is attached to the Information Memorandum.

Supporters who wish to donate via a wider supporter ownership vehicle:

Hibernian Supporters Ltd was launched on January 14th, with a Board of seven directors chaired by Kenny MacAskill MSP. The Board also includes former Club captain Jackie Macnamara, Proclaimer Charlie Reid, and other founding directors including supporters Jim Adie and Gordon Smith along with former Club Director Stephen Dunn and Club Chief Executive Leeann Dempster. Hibernian Supporters Limited is a simple alternative to holding shares directly.

Hibernian Supporters Limited is a company limited by guarantee with the sole objective and aim of buying and holding shares in Hibernian FC for the benefit of supporters. Any person can sign up to donate (the minimum suggested donation is £225 per annum or £18.75 per month) to the company and this money will be used to acquire shares in Hibernian. Supporters who make contributions will not own shares directly but will own Hibernian Supporters Limited, which in turn will own the shares in the Club.
Every person who donates the minimum amount will become a member of Hibernian Supporters Limited and each member will have one vote on issues affecting that company, including the make-up of its Board. Hibernian Supporters Limited entered into an agreement with the Club that it will use all the money it receives to subscribe for shares and that the Club will make those shares available to Hibernian Supporters Limited.

Supporters who contribute through Hibernian Supporters Limited will not receive a share certificate, as they will not own shares in the Club themselves, but they will receive a certificate acknowledging the part they have played in securing supporter ownership of the Club.

Bronson
16-01-2015, 05:25 PM
Would quite like to pledge but £225 a year is quite a lot for a minimum, this will need serious thought.

HUTCHYHIBBY
16-01-2015, 05:42 PM
How much will it cost to get the form signed by an IFA?

Bleeds green
16-01-2015, 06:05 PM
Fantastic opportunity for supporters to finally get the club going in the direction the fans actually want come on guys get signed up


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Andy74
16-01-2015, 06:49 PM
How much will it cost to get the form signed by an IFA?

Strictly they'd have to do a review of your finances and discuss the suitability of the product. May cost the same as the shares!

Eyrie
16-01-2015, 06:52 PM
Strictly they'd have to do a review of your finances and discuss the suitability of the product. May cost the same as the shares!

There are only two questions involved though

1 - Can you afford to immediately lose this money?
2 - Do you realise that this is effectively a donation because the shares will have little resale value and provide no income?

I'm relaxed about saying "Yes" to both, so how much should it cost? Could an IFA on .net provide a very general estimate?

Danderhall Hibs
16-01-2015, 07:12 PM
Strictly they'd have to do a review of your finances and discuss the suitability of the product. May cost the same as the shares!

Could I log on just now and buy some tesco, m&s or rbs shares? I used to be able to.

If so why is this different?

Only difference I can think of is I know buying shares in Hibs is not for profit?

Danderhall Hibs
16-01-2015, 07:14 PM
And loads of financial service companies are changing focus to selling products direct. Proper products that are complicated and you can lose a lot of money by investing in.

How come the FCA are more concerned with shares in a football club?

Mikey
16-01-2015, 07:16 PM
How come the FCA are more concerned with shares in a football club?

Paragraph 4.........

http://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?297302-Official-Site-CLUB-OWNERSHIP-GETTING-INVOLVED

Danderhall Hibs
16-01-2015, 07:18 PM
Paragraph 4.........

http://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?297302-Official-Site-CLUB-OWNERSHIP-GETTING-INVOLVED

Cheers. Need to track down these regulations. It's harder to make this donation than it is to actually invest in shares that can properly lose you money.

HUTCHYHIBBY
16-01-2015, 07:20 PM
Strictly they'd have to do a review of your finances

Oh dear! that's provided me with many a sleepless night in years gone by. :-)

Geo_1875
16-01-2015, 10:13 PM
Any Hibs supporting IFA's who would be willing to countersign applications at a mate's rate?

Mikey
16-01-2015, 10:40 PM
Any Hibs supporting IFA's who would be willing to countersign applications at a mate's rate?

Hibs.net is at the very early stages of trying to sort something here. We need to find out if we can first though!

We have a bit of time to play with and hope to come up with some sort of solution.

Geo_1875
16-01-2015, 10:43 PM
Hibs.net is at the very early stages of trying to sort something here. We need to find out if we can first though!

We have a bit of time to play with and hope to come up with some sort of solution.

Cheers Mikey. That would be an ideal solution for many wiuld be "investors".

Ginger Gehagan
17-01-2015, 12:22 AM
Hibs.net is at the very early stages of trying to sort something here. We need to find out if we can first though!

We have a bit of time to play with and hope to come up with some sort of solution.

Yeah that would be great, really want to buy shares myself and not through the HSL model,but raising £200 is going to be hard enough never mind extra money for an IFA.

Mikey
19-01-2015, 05:11 PM
Yeah that would be great, really want to buy shares myself and not through the HSL model,but raising £200 is going to be hard enough never mind extra money for an IFA.

This is moving along now the letter to non shareholders has been received and we know what's in it!

NAE NOOKIE
19-01-2015, 05:36 PM
This is moving along now the letter to non shareholders has been received and we know what's in it!

Not by this non shareholder :confused:

Bronson
19-01-2015, 05:44 PM
How necessary is an IFA for this kind of thing usually? Hibs have made it a mandatory requirement, is that common procedure? Another stumbling block, not meaning to sound negative because I'm excited about the whole thing, I just thought contributing would be a bit easier and a bit more affordable:rolleyes:

Mikey
19-01-2015, 05:56 PM
How necessary is an IFA for this kind of thing usually? Hibs have made it a mandatory requirement, is that common procedure? Another stumbling block, not meaning to sound negative because I'm excited about the whole thing, I just thought contributing would be a bit easier and a bit more affordable:rolleyes:

It's because of new regulations. See post 1 here.....

http://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?296496-Q-amp-A-With-Leeann-Dempster-re-Debt-Reduction-and-Share-Offer


And for general info see here.....

http://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?297222-Hibernian-FC-Share-Issue-The-Basics

Bronson
19-01-2015, 06:07 PM
It's because of new regulations. See post 1 here.....

http://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?296496-Q-amp-A-With-Leeann-Dempster-re-Debt-Reduction-and-Share-Offer


And for general info see here.....

http://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?297222-Hibernian-FC-Share-Issue-The-Basics

Good info, cheers:aok:

Out of interest, is there a limited time frame for pledging to HSL or will they always be looking for more members?

Mikey
19-01-2015, 06:11 PM
Good info, cheers:aok:

Out of interest, is there a limited time frame for pledging to HSL or will they always be looking for more members?

I think it's open ended until the 51% is all gone. Bearing in mind that both HSL and individual shareholders will be nibbling away at that 51%.

emerald green
19-01-2015, 07:17 PM
I received a letter dated 15 January 2015, signed by Rod Petrie, through the post this morning.

It says he wrote to existing shareholders of the club earlier this week, setting out details of the new share offer which they will discuss at a shareholder meeting on 28 January. The letter is also to let Hibernian supporters know how they too can participate in the Board's plans to widen the ownership of the club.

If you wish to buy shares direct in the club you must first apply to be a Potential Applicant by completing and submitting the form printed on the back of Rod Petrie's letter. It all seems quite clear and straightforward.

Hopefully there will be a huge take up on this new share offer through Hibernian Supporters Limited.