Charlie Hebdo Offices Attacked in Paris

[Sylar]

Charlie Hebdo's offices in Paris have been attacked by 2 gunmen, killing 12 people and wounding another 7. This, the satirical magazine who published cartoons of the prophet Muhammad.

It appears to be another extremist Islamic terror attack, one of a number that have plagued France in the past few months.

I'd hate to be a Muslim living in Europe right now.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-30710883

[Peevemor]

Charlie Hebdo's pretty mental and will rip into anyone - left, right, jew, muslim, you name it - nothing's sacred. While obviously nothing justifies this attack, they've been playing with fire for a while.

For example ...

http://p7.storage.canalblog.com/76/48/177230/88197505_p.jpg

[Pete]

I'd hate to be a Muslim living in Europe right now.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-30710883

On this evidence, Muslims living in Europe have a lot less to worry about than non Muslims living in Europe who dare to disagree with the extremists medieval ideology.

[Sylar]

On this evidence, Muslims living in Europe have a lot less to worry about than non Muslims living in Europe who dare to disagree with the extremists medieval ideology.

Whilst this attack and the many others like it are undoubtedly tragic, the backlash (which mostly goes unreported) against ordinary Muslims is often ferocious in the wake of these events as there's a growing wave of ignorance who can't separate these acts of extremism from the religion of Islam.

The sectarian/racist abuse some of them face is already quite sickening and continued incidents like this continues to fuel that fire and give ammunition to the political and protest groups who readily paint all Muslims with the same brush.

The growing wave of anti-Islamic hostility is as troublesome as the growing wave of these extreme attacks.

[Peevemor]

Whilst this attack and the many others like it are undoubtedly tragic, the backlash (which mostly goes unreported) against ordinary Muslims is often ferocious in the wake of these events as there's a growing wave of ignorance who can't separate these acts of extremism from the religion of Islam.

The sectarian/racist abuse some of them face is already quite sickening and continued incidents like this continues to fuel that fire and give ammunition to the political and protest groups who readily paint all Muslims with the same brush.

The growing wave of anti-Islamic hostility is as troublesome as the growing wave of these extreme attacks.

:agree:

[TheReg!]

:agree:

Really? Cant see many non Muslims getting gunned down, ploughed into by vehicles and hacked in the street!

[Hibby Bairn]

I remember being on holiday in Blackpool in the late 70s. The standard joke at comedy shows was "anyone from Ireland here tonight....great I leave when you leave".

The general perception in the non muslim world is that anyone who "looks like a muslim" could very well be a terrorist. That is the unfortunate situation that is a result of all this madness.

I don't blame people for having that perception as there is real fear out there on the back of attacks like this one.

[CB_NO3]

It does not help when record numbers took to the streets in Germany on Saturday at an anti-islam march (not that this is related). Europe is pretty fragile just now and we are going to see more and more of this over the next decade IMO. The number of extremists in the world has raised dramatically and is on the up.

[PeeJay]

I remember being on holiday in Blackpool in the late 70s. The standard joke at comedy shows was "anyone from Ireland here tonight....great I leave when you leave".

The general perception in the non muslim world is that anyone who "looks like a muslim" could very well be a terrorist. That is the unfortunate situation that is a result of all this madness.

I don't blame people for having that perception as there is real fear out there on the back of attacks like this one.

I'm not sure that this is a true reflection of society in general, I have not once regarded any of the many Muslims I see or know here in Berlin (or elsewhere for that matter) to be a possible terrorist threat ... my friends and the people I generally know are not of this opinion either - maybe you are a victim of media hysteria? The guys that perpetrated this crime are simply thugs, murderers and ultimately terrorists, I wouldn't castigate Muslim society at large because of their actions ...

[hibsbollah]

My sympathies lie completely with the victims. A terrible tragedy.

I do wonder if the anti-semites among the islamist population and racist islamophobes across Europe are actually working together. They all collectively benefit from the increased fear and loathing that this murderous attack will cause on both sides. Mass 'anti islam' demos across liberal Germany yesterday followed by this in France today. Coincidence or extremists on both sides working hand in glove? Keep your eye on the Golden Dawn in Greece as well. Fascism is going mainstream.

[PeeJay]

I do wonder if the anti-semites among the islamist population and racist islamophobes across Europe are actually working together. They all collectively benefit from the increased fear and loathing that this murderous attack will cause on both sides. Mass 'anti islam' demos across liberal Germany yesterday followed by this in France today. Coincidence or extremists on both sides working hand in glove? Keep your eye on the Golden Dawn in Greece as well. Fascism is going mainstream.

IMO; this again is nothing but media hysteria - a country of 80 million people can hardly be said to be having "mass" demonstrations when a few thousand turn up in Dresden - Pegida is not German society in general ... some sense of perspective ought to be maintained, I feel.

[Peevemor]

There have already been meetings of support organised for most large French towns (mostly at 6.00 tonight). You could probably compare Charlie Hebdo's readership to that of Private Eye - you're not going to find many right-wing nutters, but it doesn't mean they're not going to tag along for the "craic".

All this at a time when the French NF are growing in strength ...:rolleyes:

[hibsbollah]

IMO; this again is nothing but media hysteria - a country of 80 million people can hardly be said to be having "mass" demonstrations when a few thousand turn up in Dresden - Pegida is not German society in general ... some sense of perspective ought to be maintained, I feel.

18,000 in Dresden. Copycat marches coordinated in other German cities. This public show of intolerance is very unusual in Germany as you obviously know and I don't think it would have been possible five years ago. You may think its been overhyped, but I don't think you can argue that there hasnt been an increase in anti muslim feeling in Germany and across Europe.

[PeeJay]

18,000 in Dresden. Copycat marches coordinated in other German cities. This public show of intolerance is very unusual in Germany as you obviously know and I don't think it would have been possible five years ago. You may think its been overhyped, but I don't think you can argue that there hasnt been an increase in anti muslim feeling in Germany and across Europe.

Fair point, the rise you refer to is certainly happening, but I don't see any massive movement yet on its behalf. Germany has prided itself on its liberal stance since "you know what" and the strange thing here is that the former socialist states (GDR) seem to be the most right-wing now, even though theses states generally have almost no Muslims living in them and almost no foreigners ... I must admit however, that I can see more than 18,000 turning up for next week'S Monday demo on the back of this event ... time for liberal Germany to stand up and be counted, it seems

[Stranraer]

Sickening that 12 people have been killed and I fully expect Islamophobia to rise and rise. At the end of the day, they went out of their way to do something that deeply upsets Muslims. Does that make killing 12 people okay? Of course not, but they should have had more sense and the building more security.

[Sylar]

Sickening that 12 people have been killed and I fully expect Islamophobia to rise and rise. At the end of the day, they went out of their way to do something that deeply upsets Muslims. Does that make killing 12 people okay? Of course not, but they should have had more sense and the building more security.

That doesn't wash for me.

They didn't target Islam alone - all religion was fair game to Charlie Hebdo - for some reason though, 'blasphemy' seems to illicit a particularly ferocious response from those more extreme sects of Islam. Charlie Hebdo shouldn't have to pander to extremist sensitivities and religion should not be above challenge, satire or ridicule.

Some of the anti-Islamic sentiment doing the rounds today, championing the rise of far-right political ideologies and using this as evidence for the needs of groups such as Pediga, BNP, National Front, Golden Dawn, etc etc...

The rhetoric sounds almost identical to 80 years ago - all that's changed is the religion.

[hibsbollah]

Three arrests made.

[Peevemor]

Three arrests made.

Police have released the names of 3 suspects, but I'm not sure there have been any arrests yet.

[Hannah_hfc]

I used to defend religion on the back of tragic events such as this, that those responsible were not doing it in the name of certain religions. I must say patience is wearing thin. Alot of deaths happening on a weekly, if not, daily basis and hee haw being done to address it.

More importantly, rip to those that lost their lives in Paris earlier, truly horrible thing to happen.

[Peevemor]

15,000 people in the centre of Rennes tonight. I don't know how many there were in the bigger cities.

13966

[Pretty Boy]

Just very sad and the aftermath is going to be even sadder.

I really do despair at the world sometimes.

[Mr Grieves]

On this evidence, Muslims living in Europe have a lot less to worry about than non Muslims living in Europe who dare to disagree with the extremists medieval ideology.
What about the vast majority of Muslims who dare to disagree with the extremists medieval ideology?

Innocent Muslims have been killed in terrorist attacks in Europe.

[heretoday]

Whilst this attack and the many others like it are undoubtedly tragic, the backlash (which mostly goes unreported) against ordinary Muslims is often ferocious in the wake of these events as there's a growing wave of ignorance who can't separate these acts of extremism from the religion of Islam.

The sectarian/racist abuse some of them face is already quite sickening and continued incidents like this continues to fuel that fire and give ammunition to the political and protest groups who readily paint all Muslims with the same brush.

The growing wave of anti-Islamic hostility is as troublesome as the growing wave of these extreme attacks.

Hear Hear.

I'd also say that if you poke fun at other people's religious beliefs you can't expect them not to react to some degree. Surely history has taught us that if nothing else.

[Pretty Boy]

Hear Hear.

I'd also say that if you poke fun at other people's religious beliefs you can't expect them not to react to some degree. Surely history has taught us that if nothing else.

The reaction is somewhat disproportionate though. You poke fun at my religion, I'll gun you down.

I quite like Salman Rushdies' response:

http://time.com/3657541/charlie-hebdo-paris-terror-attack-salman-rushdie/

The furore surroinding the satire of Islam confuses me somewhat as it seems a fad amongst those wishing to be offended. A few years ago South Park intended to show an image of Muhammad in their cartoons. This was in the wake of the Danish cartoon scandal and was aimed at tackling the issue of censorship. This attracted the inevitable outrage and uproar by the looking to be offended types. Shown an image of Muhammad was strictly forbidden (maybe by Islamic teaching but not any law I'm aware of or any belief I hold), it was an insult, there would be repurcussions etc etc. Eventually Comedy Central relented and censored the episode. It was then pointed out that an image of Muhammad had appeared in the titles sequence of South Park since the 2nd series (the epsiode in question was about season 10). No one had complained or protested or issued death threats because it hadn't been pointed out to them they should be offended by it.

Charlie Hebdo has satirised and mocked almost every major religion at some point, quite savagely at times yet a group of people with a mutated view of Islam felt the need to gun down artists because they didn't like what they printed. You can't try to rationalise or explain that. It's evil pure and simple. My sympathies are with the moderate Muslims who have to live with the repurcussions of this act of brutality but trying to explain behaviour like that seen yesterday is counter productive imo. It should be condemned as what it is, barbaric and senseless without reason.

[ny1875]

The reaction is somewhat disproportionate though. You poke fun at my religion, I'll gun you down.

I quite like Salman Rushdies' response:

http://time.com/3657541/charlie-hebdo-paris-terror-attack-salman-rushdie/

The furore surroinding the satire of Islam confuses me somewhat as it seems a fad amongst those wishing to be offended. A few years ago South Park intended to show an image of Muhammad in their cartoons. This was in the wake of the Danish cartoon scandal and was aimed at tackling the issue of censorship. This attracted the inevitable outrage and uproar by the looking to be offended types. Shown an image of Muhammad was strictly forbidden (maybe by Islamic teaching but not any law I'm aware of or any belief I hold), it was an insult, there would be repurcussions etc etc. Eventually Comedy Central relented and censored the episode. It was then pointed out that an image of Muhammad had appeared in the titles sequence of South Park since the 2nd series (the epsiode in question was about season 10). No one had complained or protested or issued death threats because it hadn't been pointed out to them they should be offended by it.

Charlie Hebdo has satirised and mocked almost every major religion at some point, quite savagely at times yet a group of people with a mutated view of Islam felt the need to gun down artists because they didn't like what they printed. You can't try to rationalise or explain that. It's evil pure and simple. My sympathies are with the moderate Muslims who have to live with the repurcussions of this act of brutality but trying to explain behaviour like that seen yesterday is counter productive imo. It should be condemned as what it is, barbaric and senseless without reason.

What exactly is a "moderate Muslim"?
This language is being normalised by the media and everyone discussing these events. Can we not just call them terrorists? As far as i am aware, you are a Muslim or you are not. I can't remember the anyone talking about moderate Catholics or moderate Protestants....

[The_Exile]

Another policewoman killed this morning with someone else injured, gunman fled. Sickening, and I feel for all the honest, decent muslims who will no doubt be terrified of a backlash against them.

[Pretty Boy]

What exactly is a "moderate Muslim"?
This language is being normalised by the media and everyone discussing these events. Can we not just call them terrorists? As far as i am aware, you are a Muslim or you are not. I can't remember the anyone talking about moderate Catholics or moderate Protestants....

I've heard the term moderate used to describe numerous groups within a religion. The recent Vatican debate on various issues including the churches view on homosexuality saw the term 'moderate Catholics' or 'liberal Catholics' used frequently. It's maybe a controversial turn of phrase for some but it's as good a way to differentiate between fundamentalists or extremists and the rest of Muslim population as any imo.

We really need to move away from this idea that extremist elements of Islam don't represent Islam. They may not represent a majority of Muslims but they represent a small, vocal, active and dangerous element who have twiested and *******ised their religion in the same way as the Westboro Baptist Church represent a similar area of Christianity.

Reading this back I have made my point pretty ineloquently.

What I was trying to say, poorly, is that the seperation of Islam as a whole from these events is a dangerous and flawed path imo.

I don't make that point because I believe 'all Muslims are terrorists' but rather because I believe the only way the 'war' against the radicalisation of some Muslims can be won is from within their own communities. To try to portray these attacks as completely independent of Islam actually does a far greater disservice to the millions of Muslims who will be appalled by what they are seeing.

[PeeJay]

I was just wondering: Muslims are quick enough to appear in great numbers protesting against the perceived defamation of their religion in many European cities for any given reason, wouldn't the time after Friday's day of prayer in the mosques be an ideal opportunity for Muslims across Europe to arrange for a peaceful demonstration to show that they do not agree with the Paris atrocity being committed supposedly in the name of their religion? Isn't that what decent, honest people would do? I appreciate some Muslims are already joining the spontaneous demonstrations, but wouldn't it be a huge sign on their part, not only to "us" in the west, but also to the extremists amongst them, that murdering people is simply wrong and that it has to stop?

[Stranraer]

What exactly is a "moderate Muslim"?
This language is being normalised by the media and everyone discussing these events. Can we not just call them terrorists? As far as i am aware, you are a Muslim or you are not. I can't remember the anyone talking about moderate Catholics or moderate Protestants....

I'll name you someone who wasn't a moderate Protestant: Ian Paisley. He was an extremist but not all Protestants are like him. On Twitter last night one of the trending hashtags was #killallmuslims.

This is the sort of disgusting reaction that is completely unfair.

The OP was right, I would hate to be a Muslim living in Europe right now, especially in France.

[Stranraer]

Another policewoman killed this morning with someone else injured, gunman fled. Sickening, and I feel for all the honest, decent muslims who will no doubt be terrified of a backlash against them.

:top marksthis is my concern also.

[ny1875]

I've heard the term moderate used to describe numerous groups within a religion. The recent Vatican debate on various issues including the churches view on homosexuality saw the term 'moderate Catholics' or 'liberal Catholics' used frequently. It's maybe a controversial turn of phrase for some but it's as good a way to differentiate between fundamentalists or extremists and the rest of Muslim population as any imo.

We really need to move away from this idea that extremist elements of Islam don't represent Islam. They may not represent a majority of Muslims but they represent a small, vocal, active and dangerous element who have twiested and *******ised their religion in the same way as the Westboro Baptist Church represent a similar area of Christianity.

Reading this back I have made my point pretty ineloquently.

What I was trying to say, poorly, is that the seperation of Islam as a whole from these events is a dangerous and flawed path imo.

I don't make that point because I believe 'all Muslims are terrorists' but rather because I believe the only way the 'war' against the radicalisation of some Muslims can be won is from within their own communities. To try to portray these attacks as completely independent of Islam actually does a far greater disservice to the millions of Muslims who will be appalled by what they are seeing.

A fundamentalist or extremist is exactly that so why the need to differentiate? Personally i don't think we have to pigeon hole people of any denomination.
Are Westboro really similar to the perpetrators of yesterday's activities?

[ny1875]

:top marksthis is my concern also.

Could not agree more, I overheard an Australian phoning his mate back home talking openly about how he would like to "shoot a Muslim in the face".

[hibsbollah]

The reaction is somewhat disproportionate though. You poke fun at my religion, I'll gun you down.

I quite like Salman Rushdies' response:

http://time.com/3657541/charlie-hebdo-paris-terror-attack-salman-rushdie/

The furore surroinding the satire of Islam confuses me somewhat as it seems a fad amongst those wishing to be offended. A few years ago South Park intended to show an image of Muhammad in their cartoons. This was in the wake of the Danish cartoon scandal and was aimed at tackling the issue of censorship. This attracted the inevitable outrage and uproar by the looking to be offended types. Shown an image of Muhammad was strictly forbidden (maybe by Islamic teaching but not any law I'm aware of or any belief I hold), it was an insult, there would be repurcussions etc etc. Eventually Comedy Central relented and censored the episode. It was then pointed out that an image of Muhammad had appeared in the titles sequence of South Park since the 2nd series (the epsiode in question was about season 10). No one had complained or protested or issued death threats because it hadn't been pointed out to them they should be offended by it.

Charlie Hebdo has satirised and mocked almost every major religion at some point, quite savagely at times yet a group of people with a mutated view of Islam felt the need to gun down artists because they didn't like what they printed. You can't try to rationalise or explain that. It's evil pure and simple. My sympathies are with the moderate Muslims who have to live with the repurcussions of this act of brutality but trying to explain behaviour like that seen yesterday is counter productive imo. It should be condemned as what it is, barbaric and senseless without reason.

Very good from Rushdie.
Saw online earlier 'fanaticism is a monster who thinks its the child of religion'-Voltaire.

[TheReg!]

People talking of a backlash against Muslims, really??? Show me a large violent backlash against Muslims after any recent attacks??? Not many is there. A few choice words on Twitter or Facebook is all I see as a backlash.

[Peevemor]

Apparently the 2 guys still on the run have stolen food from a petrol station and are heading back toward Paris. I reckon they might be looking to go out with a bang.

[Pete]

Could not agree more, I overheard an Australian phoning his mate back home talking openly about how he would like to "shoot a Muslim in the face".

If I'm not mistaken the terrorists beat them to it by shooting two of them.

BBC now reporting "revenge" attacks in France. No injuries however.

[Pete]

I reckon they might be looking to go out with a bang.

Let's hope it's like Thelma and Louise.

[Gatecrasher]

These people are **** and there is no rational thinking behind killing someone over a drawing. Good to see some of the newspapers here and in Europe printing some of the Cartoons etc to get it right up them.

[Rasta_Hibs]

I was just wondering: Muslims are quick enough to appear in great numbers protesting against the perceived defamation of their religion in many European cities for any given reason, wouldn't the time after Friday's day of prayer in the mosques be an ideal opportunity for Muslims across Europe to arrange for a peaceful demonstration to show that they do not agree with the Paris atrocity being committed supposedly in the name of their religion? Isn't that what decent, honest people would do? I appreciate some Muslims are already joining the spontaneous demonstrations, but wouldn't it be a huge sign on their part, not only to "us" in the west, but also to the extremists amongst them, that murdering people is simply wrong and that it has to stop?

Part of me think that as this is done in their religions name then the whole muslim community world wide have to come out and show solidarity with the innocents.

[CropleyWasGod]

Part of me think that as this is done in their religions name then the whole muslim community world wide have to come out and show solidarity with the innocents.

Given the innumerable strands of Islam that there are, and the enmity that exists between some of them, I think that this is, sadly, very unlikely.

[Peevemor]

Part of me think that as this is done in their religions name then the whole muslim community world wide have to come out and show solidarity with the innocents.

Tomorrow (Friday) is their main day of prayer in the mosques, there'll be a lot of attention on the reaction of the Imams.

[Sylar]

Given the innumerable strands of Islam that there are, and the enmity that exists between some of them, I think that this is, sadly, very unlikely.

It also shouldn't be expected. Why should the entire Muslim community be forced to apologies for the actions of those who don't represent them?

When Breivik slaughtered those poor innocent kids, did all Christians have to come together as one and announce their unified dismay at what had occurred?

For some reason, whenever this happens with Muslim perpetrators, there's too large a sect of society who are willing to attach a widespread sense of responsibility that extends beyond the actions of the lunatics carrying out the act.

If some atheist nutter went on a rampage and decided to kill multiple people of practicing faith, I wouldn't feel the need to apologise/issue a collective disapproval of their actions. I would probably express my own personal dismay but there shouldn't be any move to call for collective community wide action.

Many Muslims across the world have expressed their disgust at these actions, as well as the many others that have taken place in recent months/years. They shouldn't need to issue a community wide condemnation everytime something like this happens.

CWG: The majority of my ire isn't aimed at you - I quoted you for the unlikely comment but I guess I'm primarily responding to Rasta, not you.

[Stranraer]

What I can never understand is why people come out and call for "Muslim condemnation". For Catholics, the Pope is the Vicar of Christ on earth, so if a Catholic extremist committed an atrocity then a global "leader" as it were would intervene.

I certainly hope there is no backlash against Muslims but with the NF doing well in France I fear the worst.

[Peevemor]

I would guess that prayers will be said for the victims in every non-muslim place of worship in France this weekend. The least we can expect is the same in the mosques IMO.

[CropleyWasGod]

What I can never understand is why people come out and call for "Muslim condemnation". For Catholics, the Pope is the Vicar of Christ on earth, so if a Catholic extremist committed an atrocity then a global "leader" as it were would intervene.

I certainly hope there is no backlash against Muslims but with the NF doing well in France I fear the worst.

Did you mean "wouldn't"?

[CropleyWasGod]

What I can never understand is why people come out and call for "Muslim condemnation". For Catholics, the Pope is the Vicar of Christ on earth, so if a Catholic extremist committed an atrocity then a global "leader" as it were would intervene.

I certainly hope there is no backlash against Muslims but with the NF doing well in France I fear the worst.

Did you mean "wouldn't"?

[PeeJay]

What I can never understand is why people come out and call for "Muslim condemnation".

Because otherwise silence on the part of the Muslim community may be seen to be that community condoning such atrocities: this is not the time to be silent, surely?

[Stranraer]

Well here is some Muslim condemnation of IS

Communities will come together to condemn this atrocity I'm sure.

Muslim Condemnation (http://media.giphy.com/media/TlK63EwiHqemn41RRHq/giphy.gif)

[NAE NOOKIE]

Well here is some Muslim condemnation of IS

Communities will come together to condemn this atrocity I'm sure.

Muslim Condemnation (http://media.giphy.com/media/TlK63EwiHqemn41RRHq/giphy.gif)

Thanks for that Morrissey ... lets hope folk keep the heid

[Rasta_Hibs]

Thanks for that Morrissey ... lets hope folk keep the heid

Is it not about time the globe had a real discussion about Islam and the other religions as essentially all this killing is done in the name of a religion that may well be a fairy story! Instead of being sympathetic to their views they need to understand that their own beliefs are just that. God may or not be real but not one person on earth knows the truth about God or not! Time to get them told a few home truths that in fact all religion is a story told to control populations.

For whats it's worth I believe in a creator bit I have no idea who or what it is. But I think love is the key!

[hibsbollah]

Is it not about time the globe had a real discussion about Islam and the other religions as essentially all this killing is done in the name of a religion that may well be a fairy story! Instead of being sympathetic to their views they need to understand that their own beliefs are just that. God may or not be real but not one person on earth knows the truth about God or not! Time to get them told a few home truths that in fact all religion is a story told to control populations.

For whats it's worth I believe in a creator bit I have no idea who or what it is. But I think love is the key!

So the tactic is 'look, Abdul, sorry but the idea of an all knowing sentient being controlling everything is blatant bs, so just stop all this terrorism malarkey'.?

Something tells me this solution isnt going to work.

[Sylar]

So the tactic is 'look, Abdul, sorry but the idea of an all knowing sentient being controlling everything is blatant bs, so just stop all this terrorism malarkey'.?

Something tells me this solution isnt going to work.

:agree:

They'll just whip out their muslamic ray guns and convert us if we try. We could always just send them back to where they came from.

Oh, wait...

[Sir David Gray]

I don't intend to offer any further comment except to say that I was very sorry to hear about the attack which took place yesterday at the Charlie Hebdo offices and also the shooting of the police officer this morning.

My thoughts are with the victims and their families.

[Stranraer]

Thanks for that Morrissey ... lets hope folk keep the heid

I hope so too :aok:

[lord bunberry]

Is it not about time the globe had a real discussion about Islam and the other religions as essentially all this killing is done in the name of a religion that may well be a fairy story! Instead of being sympathetic to their views they need to understand that their own beliefs are just that. God may or not be real but not one person on earth knows the truth about God or not! Time to get them told a few home truths that in fact all religion is a story told to control populations.

For whats it's worth I believe in a creator bit I have no idea who or what it is. But I think love is the key!

I think it's about time the globe had discussions with Islam rather than about it

[HibsMax]

Really? Cant see many non Muslims getting gunned down, ploughed into by vehicles and hacked in the street!


People talking of a backlash against Muslims, really??? Show me a large violent backlash against Muslims after any recent attacks??? Not many is there. A few choice words on Twitter or Facebook is all I see as a backlash.

I don't think a backlash has to be as extreme as you're looking for. To think this does not affect Muslim people is naive, even if nobody is being hung from a bridge publicly.

[Hibrandenburg]

I was just wondering: Muslims are quick enough to appear in great numbers protesting against the perceived defamation of their religion in many European cities for any given reason, wouldn't the time after Friday's day of prayer in the mosques be an ideal opportunity for Muslims across Europe to arrange for a peaceful demonstration to show that they do not agree with the Paris atrocity being committed supposedly in the name of their religion? Isn't that what decent, honest people would do? I appreciate some Muslims are already joining the spontaneous demonstrations, but wouldn't it be a huge sign on their part, not only to "us" in the west, but also to the extremists amongst them, that murdering people is simply wrong and that it has to stop?

Would be the first step to actually practicing what they preach, however I think it's highly unlikely because they don't associate themselves with those who carried out this atrocity.

[Rasta_Hibs]

So the tactic is 'look, Abdul, sorry but the idea of an all knowing sentient being controlling everything is blatant bs, so just stop all this terrorism malarkey'.?

Something tells me this solution isnt going to work.

to be honest I think personally this whole East v West culture is being engineered to cause unrest between people.

Why is religion so important? Ken what they wanting from it? Guidence how to live? Running round a black stone! Etc.

same with the Christian religion. Everyone celebrating the birth of Christ on the 25th when the Pope comes oot with in his book that they have got it wrong. Miles oot nowhere near 25th of December. The birth date is now said to be 9 / 11; 3 BC. What a coincidence. Born on 9 / 11 died aged 33. To me that screams masonic conspiracy!

Ken so I'm no fir taking that story at face value.

Time to say to all sides right the games up yis are all bloody claiming all sorts and with what real basis?

[PeeJay]

Would be the first step to actually practicing what they preach, however I think it's highly unlikely because they don't associate themselves with those who carried out this atrocity.

Fair point, and I'm quite confident that that is in fact the case, but I just feel they would be well advised to grasp this opportunity to raise their profile and clearly show their abhorrence at what happened in Paris as many "non-Muslims" (along with Pegida, AfD or the NPD) seem to be strongly of the opposite view ... it'll be interesting to see what happens today in Germany after Friday prayers, moves are quite far advanced towards holding a joint vigil this weekend involving Christian churches and Muslim mosques, good move ...

[Peevemor]

Fair point, and I'm quite confident that that is in fact the case, but I just feel they would be well advised to grasp this opportunity to raise their profile and clearly show their abhorrence at what happened in Paris as many "non-Muslims" (along with Pegida, AfD or the NPD) seem to be strongly of the opposite view ... it'll be interesting to see what happens today in Germany after Friday prayers, moves are quite far advanced towards holding a joint vigil this weekend involving Christian churches and Muslim mosques, good move ...

There's a march thing planned for Paris on Sunday, with representativers of all political parties, religious groups, etc. expected to attend.

[Allant1981]

Sad times we live in but killing in the name of "religion" has went on for years and cant see it stopping anytime soon, just makes you wonder what city/town will be next

[Sylar]

Sky News reporting the police are chasing a Peugeot on the N2, with shots having been fired and it's suspected they have hostages.

[steakbake]

Surrounded. I hope they take them alive so their spurious arguments can be exposed in court.

[Betty Boop]

Surrounded. I hope they take them alive so their spurious arguments can be exposed in court.


Given the fact they are seeking martyrdom, can only see this ending one way. They are also reported to have a hostage.

[Betty Boop]

Reports of a shooting and a hostage taken at a Kosher grocery store in Paris.

[hibsbollah]

Given the fact they are seeking martyrdom, can only see this ending one way. They are also reported to have a hostage.

Are they though? They drove off and hid in a forest overnight. They seem a different kind of fanatic from the Lee Rigby murderers who were desperate to be shot dead, these guys don't want to die. Not until they can do more murdering, anyway.

What a depressing and disgusting situation.

[Betty Boop]

Are they though? They drove off and hid in a forest overnight. They seem a different kind of fanatic from the Lee Rigby murderers who were desperate to be shot dead, these guys don't want to die. Not until they can do more murdering, anyway.

What a depressing and disgusting situation.

Appears to be a series of attacks, five hostages now reported at the Kosher store.

[PeeJay]

Are they though? They drove off and hid in a forest overnight. They seem a different kind of fanatic from the Lee Rigby murderers who were desperate to be shot dead, these guys don't want to die. Not until they can do more murdering, anyway.

What a depressing and disgusting situation.

Yeah, really feel for the French today, not convinced this is the last of seemingly coordinated campaign ... this is exactly what the terrorists want: an entire country scared out of its wits ...

[Sylar]

Yeah, really feel for the French today, not convinced this is the last of seemingly coordinated campaign ... this is exactly what the terrorists want: an entire country scared out of its wits ...

I feel incredibly for the French people and particularly the Gendarmerie who have been stretched and strained this week.

The far-right will be lapping this up.

[Peevemor]

Yeah, really feel for the French today, not convinced this is the last of seemingly coordinated campaign ... this is exactly what the terrorists want: an entire country scared out of its wits ...

I wouldn't say that. The entire country is thoroughly pissed off! I suspect that there are many open minded people who have had their view of Islam tainted.

[PeeJay]

I wouldn't say that. The entire country is thoroughly pissed off! I suspect that there are many open minded people who have had their view of Islam tainted.

Well, yeah the "entire country" was maybe a bit OTT, but without doubt the people in the areas involved - I can understand the frustration of those not directly involved, yet who knows where this will end?

German news services now confirming 2 dead in the supermarket incident ...

[Gatecrasher]

so is there several attacks on the go just now? as far as I can make out we have the following:


Standoff in an industrial estate, thought to be the same people that attacked the magazine
a shooting at a jewish? shop
a guard at a palace has been kidknapped (I think this one is wrong, or i read it wrong anyway)


Is that all right? have I missed anything?

[Hibee87]

so is there several attacks on the go just now? as far as I can make out we have the following:


Standoff in an industrial estate, thought to be the same people that attacked the magazine
a shooting at a jewish? shop
a guard at a palace has been kidknapped (I think this one is wrong, or i read it wrong anyway)


Is that all right? have I missed anything?

As far as I can make out, magazine killers are surrounded in a printing factory with a hostage

The suspect in the shooting yesterday has now shot and killed another 2, and is barackaded in a supermarket with hostages.

[Off the bar]

so is there several attacks on the go just now? as far as I can make out we have the following:


Standoff in an industrial estate, thought to be the same people that attacked the magazine
a shooting at a jewish? shop
a guard at a palace has been kidknapped (I think this one is wrong, or i read it wrong anyway)


Is that all right? have I missed anything?

not seen aything on the Palace guard being kidnapped but the other 2 are confirmed.

Looks like the reported incident at the Trocadero near the Eiffel tower was a false alarm. I suspect there will be several false alarms and scares before this is done. I'm struggling to even pretend to work now, just sifting through twitter and the bbc trying to work out wtf is going on.

Reminds me a bit of London on the day of 7/7 so many different stories and scares, really fealt like the city was under attack.

[cabbageandribs1875]

well done the french polis, i hope they murderous terrorist s*umbags are rotting in hell already

[Hibbyradge]

First two shot dead by police.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-30752239

[s.a.m]

Looking like the other one is dead also.

[Sylar]

Hopefully that's the end of what's been a horrendous few days for France.

Fingers crossed all 3 of the *******s suffered agonising pain before eventually succumbing.

[Berwickhibby]

News saying the Kouachi brothers both dead. Rot in hell.you horrible ****bags

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2

[s.a.m]

Close https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B66-D8MIIAAJhKa.jpg:large

Louise Miles‏@CSG1973 (https://twitter.com/CSG1973) 9m9 minutes ago (https://twitter.com/CSG1973/status/553588784848449538)
Enjoy your virgins pic.twitter.com/pDy2NArftK (http://t.co/pDy2NArftK)

[cabbageandribs1875]

four hostages are dead in the grocery store

[CB_NO3]

Sad times we live in but killing in the name of "religion" has went on for years and cant see it stopping anytime soon, just makes you wonder what city/town will be next
They claim to be killing in the name of religion but I think there is more to it than that, but the western media will never let you believe anything different. Mind things like this happen in America on a weekly basis. Maybe they are just loopy?

There is 100 million Muslims that live in India, there is 20 million Muslims that live in China, there is 4 million Muslims that live in Thailand, millions in Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, Indonesia. Why is there never extreme terrorists attacking Western countries from these places, if their motive is Islam v Western world? They always seem to come from Yemen, Iraq, Syria, Pakistan, Afghanistan and Somalia where coincidently there is lots of Western oil contracts tied up as well as Western military activity.

Its a horrible situation and there is no right or wrong answer IMO. This is going to be a generation thing that could last for the next 20 to 30 years IMO and i don't think the media are helping by trying to create a divide. The media, politicians from the Muslim world and the western world need to start working together, to create a togetherness. At the end of the day we live and come from the same countries now.

Anyway, the 2 brothers are horrible **** bags for killing innocent people. They will rot in hell, if there is such a thing.

[CropleyWasGod]

They claim to be killing in the name of religion but I think there is more to it than that, but the western media will never let you believe anything different. Mind things like this happen in America on a weekly basis. Maybe they are just loopy.

There is 100 million Muslims that live in India, there is 20 million Muslims that live in China, there is 4 million Muslims that live in Thailand, millions in Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, Indonesia. Why is there never extreme terrorists attacking Western countries from these places if their motive is Islam v Western world? They always seem to come from Yemen, Iraq, Syria, Pakistan, Afghanistan and Somalia where coincidently there is lots of Western oil contracts tied up as well as Western military activity.

Its a horrible situation and there is no right or wrong answer IMO. This is going to be a generation thing that could last for the next 20 to 30 years IMO and i don't think the media are helping by trying to create a divide. The media, politicians from the Muslim world and the western world need to start working together, to create a togetherness. At the end of the day we live and come from the same countries now.

Anyway, the 2 brothers are horrible **** bags for killing innocent people. They will rot in hell, if there is such a thing.

Pretty sure that the Bali bombers were Indonesian, or South East Asian at least. Indonesia is the world's largest Muslim-dominated country.

It does have oil, though.

[CB_NO3]

Pretty sure that the Bali bombers were Indonesian, or South East Asian at least. Indonesia is the world's largest Muslim-dominated country.

It does have oil, though.
Your spot on tbf, and they were aiming at the Yank consulate, but you see my point.

[CropleyWasGod]

Your spot on tbf, and they were aiming at the Yank consulate, but you see my point.
Yep I do.

I'm one of those conspiracy nuts who sees oil at the root of just about every conflict we've been involved in since the 60s.

But that's a whole different thread. .....[emoji6]

[Hibrandenburg]

They claim to be killing in the name of religion but I think there is more to it than that, but the western media will never let you believe anything different. Mind things like this happen in America on a weekly basis. Maybe they are just loopy?

There is 100 million Muslims that live in India, there is 20 million Muslims that live in China, there is 4 million Muslims that live in Thailand, millions in Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, Indonesia. Why is there never extreme terrorists attacking Western countries from these places, if their motive is Islam v Western world? They always seem to come from Yemen, Iraq, Syria, Pakistan, Afghanistan and Somalia where coincidently there is lots of Western oil contracts tied up as well as Western military activity.

Its a horrible situation and there is no right or wrong answer IMO. This is going to be a generation thing that could last for the next 20 to 30 years IMO and i don't think the media are helping by trying to create a divide. The media, politicians from the Muslim world and the western world need to start working together, to create a togetherness. At the end of the day we live and come from the same countries now.

Anyway, the 2 brothers are horrible **** bags for killing innocent people. They will rot in hell, if there is such a thing.

Chechnya, Boko Haram, Mumbai and Somalia to name a few.

[hibsbollah]

Yep I do.

I'm one of those conspiracy nuts who sees oil at the root of just about every conflict we've been involved in since the 60s.

But that's a whole different thread. .....[emoji6]

That shouldn't even be considered a conspiracy theory IMO. It's the thing that powers the world economy so it's just natural that oil supplies (and for the same reasons sometimes water supplies) is the driver behind most of the world's foreign policy decisions.

[Hibby Bairn]

Meanwhile

http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-30744693

Wtf

[Sir David Gray]

I'm glad that this particular episode now appears to be over and I'm just sorry that there has been a further loss of innocent life.

I hope these $cumbags rot in hell.

[johnbc70]

Meanwhile

http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-30744693

Wtf

Shhhhhh Can't upset the Saudis, worth too much to everyone. Move on, nothing to see.

[Betty Boop]

Shhhhhh Can't upset the Saudis, worth too much to everyone. Move on, nothing to see.

Exactly the West's bestie mates in the Middle East.

[theonlywayisup]

When is this going to end? There seems to be more and more attacks like this. I do recall someone stating that the war against Iraq / Afghanistan was only going to create a 1,000 Bin Ladens (or something like that). Is that the case, that we have so many people who feel wronged and want to take it out by murdering citizens of the west?

The attacks seem so random now that they seem impossible to defend against. How can the west go on the offensive? Well they can't, Iraq / Afghanistan has proved that not to be the correct response.

So what next, persecution of the Muslims. That will only create a new wave of fighter.

When is this going to end?

[stoneyburn hibs]

Well done the French for ending those Jihadists, or whatever they called themselves.
Personally I am actually envious as to how the French reacted as a nation in the last few days. A unity that we will never see on such a grand scale.

[lord bunberry]

Well done the French for ending those Jihadists, or whatever they called themselves.
Personally I am actually envious as to how the French reacted as a nation in the last few days. A unity that we will never see on such a grand scale.

Its a unity that's unlikely to last, France has huge problems with religious tensions.

[Peevemor]

Well done the French for ending those Jihadists, or whatever they called themselves.
Personally I am actually envious as to how the French reacted as a nation in the last few days. A unity that we will never see on such a grand scale.

I reckon there are a couple of reasons why the reaction has been so uniform/unifying.

Cartoons & comic strips are a far bigger part of the culture in France than in Britain and Charlie Hebdo, despite falling sales (about 30-40k per issue*), is basically a national institution. The majority of people could list the names of the regular cartoonists - the same wouldn't apply in Britain re., for example, Private Eye.

The main issue however is that the French see the shootings as an attack on the liberty of expression and the freedom of the press, something they take very seriously. France is a nation of philosophers, with "philo" being major, compulsory part of secondary education, therefore the right to express yourself is sacred.

I doubt the reaction would have been the same had it been, let's say, a dozen squaddies that were killed.

* They're pressing ahead with an issue next week, with an initial run of a million.

[Greenworld]

Agree but understandable

[hibsbollah]

The reaction of the cartoonists operating in the Arab press

http://mic.com/articles/108076/here-s-how-arab-papers-reacted-to-the-charlie-hebdo-massacre

And 46 examples of Muslim outrage since the attack


http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2015/01/46-examples-of-muslim-outrage-about-paris-shooting-that-fox-news-cant-seem-to-find/


So let's bury this notion that there are no moderate voices in the Muslim world speaking out against violent jihad.

[Stranraer]

The reaction of the cartoonists operating in the Arab press

http://mic.com/articles/108076/here-s-how-arab-papers-reacted-to-the-charlie-hebdo-massacre

And 46 examples of Muslim outrage since the attack


http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2015/01/46-examples-of-muslim-outrage-about-paris-shooting-that-fox-news-cant-seem-to-find/


So let's bury this notion that there are no moderate voices in the Muslim world speaking out against violent jihad.

Thank you for that :aok:

[silverhibee]

When is this going to end? There seems to be more and more attacks like this. I do recall someone stating that the war against Iraq / Afghanistan was only going to create a 1,000 Bin Ladens (or something like that). Is that the case, that we have so many people who feel wronged and want to take it out by murdering citizens of the west?

The attacks seem so random now that they seem impossible to defend against. How can the west go on the offensive? Well they can't, Iraq / Afghanistan has proved that not to be the correct response.

So what next, persecution of the Muslims. That will only create a new wave of fighter.

When is this going to end?


http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/charlie-hebdo-anonymous-declares-war-4951113

[Hibrandenburg]

When is this going to end? There seems to be more and more attacks like this. I do recall someone stating that the war against Iraq / Afghanistan was only going to create a 1,000 Bin Ladens (or something like that). Is that the case, that we have so many people who feel wronged and want to take it out by murdering citizens of the west?

The attacks seem so random now that they seem impossible to defend against. How can the west go on the offensive? Well they can't, Iraq / Afghanistan has proved that not to be the correct response.

So what next, persecution of the Muslims. That will only create a new wave of fighter.

When is this going to end?

I said back at the time of 9/11 that this is now a war between two cultures. Not everyone in these two cultures are combatants......yet. This can only end one way and that's when one of these cultures assimilates the other.

[cabbageandribs1875]

Chechnya, Boko Haram, Mumbai and Somalia to name a few.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-30761963



At least 16 people have been killed and several injured by a bomb attack in the north-eastern Nigerian city of Maiduguri, medics say.


Some reports say that the market explosion was triggered by a girl suicide bomber who may have been as young as 10 years old.


think they go to the top of the list this week for the most cowardly murderous jihadist terrorist pieces of human trash

[hibsbollah]

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jan/10/rupert-murdoch-muslims-must-be-held-responsible-for-france-terror-attacks

No doubt how the Murdoch press will be dealing with the issue.

[hibsbollah]

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jan/09/boko-haram-deadliest-massacre-baga-nigeria

2000 dead being reported by Amnesty.

And being ignored.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jan/12/-sp-boko-haram-attacks-nigeria-baga-ignored-media

[CB_NO3]

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jan/10/rupert-murdoch-muslims-must-be-held-responsible-for-france-terror-attacks

No doubt how the Murdoch press will be dealing with the issue.
What a silly idiot. That is like saying Christians all over the world should be held responsible for the thousand of Catholics and Protestants that murdered each other in Ireland, or all white christians should be held responsible for murdering Jews during the modern wars.

[Big Ed]

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jan/09/boko-haram-deadliest-massacre-baga-nigeria

2000 dead being reported by Amnesty.

As ever, the comments are the most depressing part.

Simple black and white, binary attitudes for the hard of thinking: us against them, for or against.

Still, at least I know now that cattle can type.

[Hibrandenburg]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-30761963



At least 16 people have been killed and several injured by a bomb attack in the north-eastern Nigerian city of Maiduguri, medics say.


Some reports say that the market explosion was triggered by a girl suicide bomber who may have been as young as 10 years old.


think they go to the top of the list this week for the most cowardly murderous jihadist terrorist pieces of human trash

There's been thousands of deaths this week alone and the country's leaders haven't even mentioned it. Strange when you think they took time out to show their sympathy to France. Mind boggling.

[Big Ed]

There's been thousands of deaths this week alone and the country's leaders haven't even mentioned it. Strange when you think they took time out to show their sympathy to France. Mind boggling.

I am struggling to think of a country, so rich in potential, which is let down so badly by its political elite, as Nigeria.

[cabbageandribs1875]

There's been thousands of deaths this week alone and the country's leaders haven't even mentioned it. Strange when you think they took time out to show their sympathy to France. Mind boggling.


i didn't notice the link after my post, absolutely appalling, the Nigerian army have been crying out for proper weaponry from their government, wouldn't surprise me if a lot of that oil money is lining a lot of back pockets instead of using the money where it's needed most, it would probably also help if half the population stopped spending time on PC's trying to scam people around the world and took more positive action :0

[hibsbollah]

As ever, the comments are the most depressing part.

Simple black and white, binary attitudes for the hard of thinking: us against them, for or against.

Still, at least I know now that cattle can type.

I avoid the Guardian comments section. Its full of trolls.

[Hibrandenburg]

The first "conspiracy" videos about the Paris attacks have started doing the rounds already.

[Big Ed]

I avoid the Guardian comments section. Its full of trolls.

Once in a while, I'll skim-read them...

And then remember why I usually don't bother.

[hibsbollah]

Once in a while, I'll skim-read them...

And then remember why I usually don't bother.

Its full of Rightwingers winding up a smaller number of genuine guardian readers. And then guardian readers who don't realize they are being wound up spending lots of energy picking apart arguments that don't warrant the effort. Maybe the daily mail comments section is full of leftie trollers? Not that I'm in a rush to find out.

[Peevemor]

Front cover of the issue to be released on Wednesday - "all is forgiven". I'm not sure what to think TBH.

13991

[Sergey]

Front cover of the issue to be released on Wednesday - "all is forgiven". I'm not sure what to think TBH.

13991

S - It's a classic piss-take :aok:

[Peevemor]

S - It's a classic piss-take :aok:

I understand the piss take bit. The cartoon is their standard depiction of Muhammed, but there were hundreds of thousands of muslims that participated in the demos on Sunday. Many interviewed said that they were offended by some of the magazine's antics but recognised and supported the right to freedom of expression. These people may take this cover as being directed at them. :dunno:

The guy "Luz" is one of the magazine's stalwarts (who obviously survived the attack). He originally said that he wasn't of a mind to produce anything for this issue, then he apparently changed his mind last night and churned out some cartoons, many of them (understandably) pretty 'dark'. It'll be interesting to see what else he's come up with.

[Hibby Bairn]

I see the BBC have chosen (again) not to show the cover within what is their main story.

Is that not 'news'?

[marinello59]

I see the BBC have chosen (again) not to show the cover within what is their main story.

Is that not 'news'?

Most of the main stream media will avoid showing the cover despite many of them claiming we are all Charlie. No doubt they will be praised for their 'restraint' when it's nothing of the sort.

[Sylar]

Most of the main stream media will avoid showing the cover despite any of them claiming we are all Charlie. No doubt they will be praised for their 'restraint' when it's nothing of the sort.

Was saying the same thing to my wife just a short while ago - they've rattled on and on about being 'Charlie' and defending the freedom of the press and their right to produce this material yet elect to chose censorship when the story is released.

Last night, whilst covering the papers for today, they mentioned that the Telegraph (?) were showing the picture on their front cover but weren't going to cover it.

Total hypocrites.

[Future17]

I understand the piss take bit. The cartoon is their standard depiction of Muhammed, but there were hundreds of thousands of muslims that participated in the demos on Sunday. Many interviewed said that they were offended by some of the magazine's antics but recognised and supported the right to freedom of expression. These people may take this cover as being directed at them. :dunno:

The guy "Luz" is one of the magazine's stalwarts (who obviously survived the attack). He originally said that he wasn't of a mind to produce anything for this issue, then he apparently changed his mind last night and churned out some cartoons, many of them (understandably) pretty 'dark'. It'll be interesting to see what else he's come up with.

That was the impression I got when I saw it; almost like saying "what's the point in being sorry after the fact...". I was rubbish at reviewing satirical cartoons in History at school though, so may have totally missed the point.

[s.a.m]

Front cover of the issue to be released on Wednesday - "all is forgiven". I'm not sure what to think TBH.

13991

Me neither, though my first reaction was a face value interpretation i.e. that Mohammed is a)forgiving of the cartoons, and b) distraught at what is being done in his name. He is being portrayed as a caring and forgiving figure, rather than a Mohammed of vengeful and murderous intent as envisaged by Jihadists, which is presumably intended to piss them off. I think.:Ummm:

[cabbageandribs1875]

another casualty

http://metro.co.uk/2015/01/12/charlie-hebdo-police-chief-commits-suicide-after-meeting-with-victims-5019465/


A senior French police officer assigned to the Charlie Hebdo massacre killed himself after a meeting with bereaved relatives, according to a French news channel.

Commissioner Helric Fredou, 45, shot himself in his police office in Limoges last week, according to France 3.

[TheReg!]

another casualty

http://metro.co.uk/2015/01/12/charlie-hebdo-police-chief-commits-suicide-after-meeting-with-victims-5019465/


A senior French police officer assigned to the Charlie Hebdo massacre killed himself after a meeting with bereaved relatives, according to a French news channel.

Commissioner Helric Fredou, 45, shot himself in his police office in Limoges last week, according to France 3.


Let the conspiracy theories begin.

[cabbageandribs1875]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-30848689

Pakistani police have clashed with crowds protesting over an image of the Prophet Muhammad published in French satirical magazine Charlie Hebdo.


On Thursday, Pakistani politicians passed a motion condemning Charlie Hebdo for publishing the latest cartoon.
Religious leaders openly called for journalists at the magazine to be hanged, and several religious groups called for protests after Friday prayers.


wow, just wow

[Colr]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-30848689

Pakistani police have clashed with crowds protesting over an image of the Prophet Muhammad published in French satirical magazine Charlie Hebdo.


On Thursday, Pakistani politicians passed a motion condemning Charlie Hebdo for publishing the latest cartoon.
Religious leaders openly called for journalists at the magazine to be hanged, and several religious groups called for protests after Friday prayers.


wow, just wow





Thing is that the edict against images of Muhammad related to an ancient ban on Idolatry (protestant church, anyone). There are plenty of images many in museums in the east. However, what we are seeing here is not a clash or religions (the church has been as bad over the centuries) or even cultures but one of ideas of freedom and rationality. Of the children of the Enlightenment against those who are still help under the thumb of feudal and religious leaders who keep their people ignorant to keep them in their place. It was no surprise that the Pope spoke out against freedom of expression when asked.

In this country, and in France, we should be discussing the ideas of Voltaire, Hume and Paine at primary level onwards to inculcate a culture of free and rational thought as a counterbalance to the ***** that's spoken by imported imams like Choudray. We should also follow the lead of the Mayor of Rotterdam and be clear that if you don't want freedom, pack your bags and sod off.

[Betty Boop]

Do we even have freedom of speech or expression in this country ? I don't think we do.

[Colr]

Do we even have freedom of speech or expression in this country ? I don't think we do.

Oh, yes, you bloody do!! It needs continually re-inforced and not sacrificed on some vague socio-political agenda.

[Pretty Boy]

This article is well worth a read imo:


http://www.filmsforaction.org/articles/on-charlie-hebdo-a-letter-to-my-british-friends/

[cabbageandribs1875]

Thing is that the edict against images of Muhammad related to an ancient ban on Idolatry (protestant church, anyone). There are plenty of images many in museums in the east. However, what we are seeing here is not a clash or religions (the church has been as bad over the centuries) or even cultures but one of ideas of freedom and rationality. Of the children of the Enlightenment against those who are still help under the thumb of feudal and religious leaders who keep their people ignorant to keep them in their place. It was no surprise that the Pope spoke out against freedom of expression when asked.

In this country, and in France, we should be discussing the ideas of Voltaire, Hume and Paine at primary level onwards to inculcate a culture of free and rational thought as a counterbalance to the ***** that's spoken by imported imams like Choudray. We should also follow the lead of the Mayor of Rotterdam and be clear that if you don't want freedom, pack your bags and sod off.



wholeheartedly agree with that :agree:

[snooky]

Do we even have freedom of speech or expression in this country ? I don't think we do.

Depends how you define "freedom of speech". Personally, I agree with you, I don't think have it.

If the law dictates what you can or can't say (no matter how distasteful it is to others) surely, by definition, you don't have freedom of speech?
Anyway, who makes the laws? Aye, that's right, the Government.
Think ahead. :worried:

[Betty Boop]

The first "conspiracy" videos about the Paris attacks have started doing the rounds already.

Especially for you. :greengrin

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article40797.htm

[Mon Dieu4]

Especially for you. :greengrin

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article40797.htm

Someone from buy hibs or HoH has been busy :greengrin

[Hibrandenburg]

Especially for you. :greengrin

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article40797.htm

Thanks Betty, that's impressive. Must have taken hours to type wearing a straight jacket. :greengrin