Questions For Hibs

[Mikey]

Hibs.net has been invited in to have a chat about the new structure and answer any questions. If you have anything that you would like asked please add it to this thread.

Be quick though, we haven't arranged a time yet but we might be going in this year :greengrin

And could you do us a favour and keep this thread on topic please :wink:

Fire away.......

[greenlex]

Payment details to the holding company v the banks showing percentages and actual cost giving net benefits to the club. Also if the appetite is there would there be scope for more than a 51% fan ownership.

[Andy74]

Hibs.net has been invited in to have a chat about the new structure and answer any questions. If you have anything that you would like asked please add it to this thread.

Be quick though, we haven't arranged a time yet but we might be going in this year :greengrin

And could you do us a favour and keep this thread on topic please :wink:

Fire away.......

Did the bank get all their money?

Who paid what?

It's not Sir Tom's way to shout about it but some are still convinced that this is all just deals and write offs instead of someone actually helping us out by paying for something.

[Hibbyradge]

Payment details to the holding company v the banks showing percentages and actual cost giving net benefits to the club. Also if the appetite is there would there be scope for more than a 51% fan ownership.

Indeed. I really don't like that number!

Will there be incentives with the share issue?

What will the minimum investment be?. What will be the maximum?

[Gatecrasher]

Indeed. I really don't like that number!

Will there be incentives with the share issue?

What will the minimum investment be?. What will be the maximum?
We won the league cup 5-1

the he only question I have is whether it would be a single payment or monthly D/D

[HH81]

When can we buy the shares and how much?

[Mikey]

This is happening tomorrow morning so I'll be collating the questions tonight.

So get yer skates on :greengrin

[silverhibee]

Will Petrie step down at the AGM.

[Andy74]

Are further board changes being looked at, particularly if fans do reach over 50 per cent.

[Hibstrooper]

Much like the direct debit scheme, to encourage investment is there the possibility of purchasing shares when renewing season ticket (perhaps even at a discounted rate) either as a lump sum or again through a d/d scheme?

Just bought a new house so don't have the money to invest right now however if I could combine it with my season ticket next year I'd be interested

[jonty]

Were the timescales for this process altered due to the HoH and/or BuyHibs demands/statements?
When will the shares be available? Does it also dilute the current shareholders position, or solely that of STF and RP?

In other words, if those who want STF/RP to have less influence within the club is it simply a case that they need to put their money where their mouth is and buy shares (or is that too simplistic).

Are the club investigating vehicles for purchase (similar to ticketus?) where a bulk of shares are purchased then bought back buy potential holders over a period of time.

[Andy74]

Could someone like Hibs.net have a collection scheme for those not able to raise enough to buy the minimum or who couldn't commit to a regular payment like the BuyHibs thing would have been?

[Pretty Boy]

Could someone like Hibs.net have a collection scheme for those not able to raise enough to buy the minimum or who couldn't commit to a regular payment like the BuyHibs thing would have been?

That's the one of most interest to me on a personal level.

If there was a minimum purchase of between £50 and £100 I could probably contribute, much more than that and I'd struggle to justify it on top of the other money I spend on Hibs each year so a collective group would be of interest to me.

[Devonhibs]

Can I buy shares worth £100 up front and a monthly DD after this to buy more, say £25?

Cheers

[CropleyWasGod]

The statement was a bit vague about the terms of the loan from HFCH to the club. What exactly are those "favourable terms"?

How much a year is the reduction in the debt worth to the club, in cash flow terms?

How much of that saving, if there is any, will be available to the players' budget?

[s.a.m]

On the face of it, I'm pleased with the plan. I would have liked them to address the issue of forward planning for a post-STF Hibs. I realise that it's not necessarily any more urgent than the forward-planning for any other major shareholder's ownership of whatever football club, but it would be useful to know if his shares will be safeguarded in any way.


(Maybe he's gifting them all to Rod....:duck:)

[CropleyWasGod]

On the face of it, I'm pleased with the plan. I would have liked them to address the issue of forward planning for a post-STF Hibs. I realise that it's not necessarily any more urgent than the forward-planning for any other major shareholder's ownership of whatever football club, but it would be useful to know if his shares will be safeguarded in any way.


(Maybe he's gifting them all to Rod....:duck:)

I think that this is the first step in his succession plan.

[s.a.m]

I think that this is the first step in his succession plan.

I think you're probably right. I'm just wondering what step two might be.

[CropleyWasGod]

I think you're probably right. I'm just wondering what step two might be.

Dodgy share issue and a wee trip to somewhere without an extradition treaty?

Ahem....back to the thread......

:cb

[s.a.m]

Dodgy share issue and a wee trip to somewhere without an extradition treaty?

Ahem....back to the thread......

:cb


:greengrin

[tamig]

Did the bank get all their money?

Who paid what?

It's not Sir Tom's way to shout about it but some are still convinced that this is all just deals and write offs instead of someone actually helping us out by paying for something.
Quick question for you Andy as you were asking about this when the Killie deal was mentioned a few weeks back. No club who has debt with Lloyds should expect to have to resettle the full debt. It would be crazy. All of the recent deals have resulted in considerable write-offs by the bank and RP/STF will be fully aware of that. They're not daft.So, why would we be different and pay the full whack?

[SneakersO'Toole]

How long do the club anticipate repaying the £5m loan and what are the finer details of the repayment plan?

[greenginger]

Can something be added to Hibernian F C Articles of Association restricting borrowing against the land assets over a certain amount, for security in future years.

Say, no more than £ 3 million can be borrowed and secured against the assets without approval of 75% of all shareholders.

[Lmc2105]

If the 2.5M can't be raised what is the alternative?

I think this is a fantastic and with the assets being together and the prospect of fan ownership what isn't there to support in this :thumbsup:

[Caversham Green]

Is the £2.5m the nominal value of the shares or the total amount the buyers will have to pay?

[lucky]

Is there a limit to how many of the new shares any one individual can purchase?
Are the new shares going to be on sale for a fixed period or can investors purchase them on on a monthly bases until they are sold?
Is there an underwriter of these shares?

[Moulin Yarns]

What guarantee is there that shares won't end up in the Wrong hands?

Will shares be sold to those on the database?

[Hibby D]

Could they please define "sporting ambition"?

[Caversham Green]

Quick question for you Andy as you were asking about this when the Killie deal was mentioned a few weeks back. No club who has debt with Lloyds should expect to have to resettle the full debt. It would be crazy. All of the recent deals have resulted in considerable write-offs by the bank and RP/STF will be fully aware of that. They're not daft.So, why would we be different and pay the full whack?

I can answer that.

In the case of Killie and (to a lesser extent United) the loans were secured on assets of diminishing values and the borrowers were close to insolvency. That means that the bank was delighted to take what they could get in cash - the debts had probably been written off as doubtful years ago in their accounts so anything they got was a bonus. In Hibs case the debt had a rock-solid guarantee in the shape of Sir Tom Farmer so the bank was never in danger of losing their money. While a reduced repayment is great news for Hibs, it's also evidence of mismanagement by the bank since they could have held out for the full amount.

[Andy74]

Quick question for you Andy as you were asking about this when the Killie deal was mentioned a few weeks back. No club who has debt with Lloyds should expect to have to resettle the full debt. It would be crazy. All of the recent deals have resulted in considerable write-offs by the bank and RP/STF will be fully aware of that. They're not daft.So, why would we be different and pay the full whack?

I'd say because we still had the ability to pay it back. Most of the other clubs didn't.

With the 5m surviving debt and 4.5m being swapped for shares that's 9.5m debt the holding co are talking. The bank must have got all or the very thick end of what they were due.

[Mikey]

We'll keep this going until 9pm tonight but we'll need to close it then so we can piece it all together.

So if you have any more..........

[micksoo]

Can fans groups own shares? e.g. Hibs.net or BuyHibs.

Similarly can a family or friends group purchase shares if they cannot afford individually?

Can shares be purchased on an ongoing basis? Monthly or with an initial lump sum with additional purchases on an adhoc basis.

Is there a time limit on the purchase of shares?

[bingo70]

Not sure if this needs to go to hibs or if someone here can answer but I think if you buy shares in a normal business it's a one off purchase but obviously the hearts situation is relying on a monthly contribution.

Is this offer likely to be a one off investment or a monthly payment?

Apologies if that's a ***** question.

[Andy74]

Not sure if this needs to go to hibs or if someone here can answer but I think if you buy shares in a normal business it's a one off purchase but obviously the hearts situation is relying on a monthly contribution.

Is this offer likely to be a one off investment or a monthly payment?

Apologies if that's a ***** question.

Hearts fans are not buying shares direct. They are gathering a sum that at some stage will allow the foundation to purchase the shares from the owner. At that point I'd assume that would be a single transaction. Firstly their cash is being used to provide cash to Hearts.

[Moulin Yarns]

What guarantee is there that shares won't end up in the Wrong hands?

Will shares be sold to those on the database?

Mean to say only be sold to database

[Just Alf]

At work I can buy shares in the company on a monthly basis (currently, for me it's £25), this gets me a few shares every month.... Will something like that be available? ..... Even if the money goes to the club each month and then, say, once every 6 months the appropriate number of shares are transferred into my name.

[Hibby Bairn]

Will the legal entity of Hibs be changed to a Community Interest Company to protect assets in the future and if so will the shares be offered under this structure?

[Wighty76]

Could someone like Hibs.net have a collection scheme for those not able to raise enough to buy the minimum or who couldn't commit to a regular payment like the BuyHibs thing would have been?


seconded.

[Hibby Bairn]

Could someone like Hibs.net have a collection scheme for those not able to raise enough to buy the minimum or who couldn't commit to a regular payment like the BuyHibs thing would have been?

Good idea. Bit like a syndicate owning a racehorse.

[Ozyhibby]

This is happening tomorrow morning so I'll be collating the questions tonight.

So get yer skates on :greengrin

Nightmare, I'm just starting my third Stella and I've not had time to properly look at the details yet. Will have to trust my fellow Hibs.netters.

[ano hibby]

Will buying shares above certain thresholds eg £1k/£5k/£10k give the investor any additional entitlement/incentive to invest (apart from additional votes)?

What is the maximum investment by an individual or company?

How would oversubscriprion be handled?

This transaction looks like Sir Tom Farmer benevolently paving way for change in ownership. Would STF consider coming to the AGM to to explain his thinking and answer questions? (Sorry if he already does, I haven't made an AGM)

As the transaction is being proposed from a position of strength there is arguably no urgency for fans to invest. Is it possible to incentivise early investors to bring forward the investment to allow the current manager as much flexibility as possible in coming window and contract negotiations?

[PatHead]

I can answer that.

In the case of Killie and (to a lesser extent United) the loans were secured on assets of diminishing values and the borrowers were close to insolvency. That means that the bank was delighted to take what they could get in cash - the debts had probably been written off as doubtful years ago in their accounts so anything they got was a bonus. In Hibs case the debt had a rock-solid guarantee in the shape of Sir Tom Farmer so the bank was never in danger of losing their money. While a reduced repayment is great news for Hibs, it's also evidence of mismanagement by the bank since they could have held out for the full amount.

Would all football debt not be grouped by banks and seen as "bad debt"? By getting rid of the debt would this not improve the bank's balance sheet hence the wish to negotiate.

Sorry for the thread hijack.

[Capt Mainwaring]

What has happened/ will happen to those shares gifted by STF to shareholders when his original acquisition of the club happened?

What's the minimum and maximum amount of shares available to purchase by any single individual in this latest share offering?

[IanM]

We've been told whatever is raised from the 51% is going right back into the team. Will the other 49% not owned by fans be investing into the team as well?

[ancient hibee]

Would all football debt not be grouped by banks and seen as "bad debt"? By getting rid of the debt would this not improve the bank's balance sheet hence the wish to negotiate.

Sorry for the thread hijack.

As writing off debts has taxation benefits for banks they are not allowed to call a debt "bad" if it is actually "good" which Hibs debts were.

[CropleyWasGod]

We've been told whatever is raised from the 51% is going right back into the team. Will the other 49% not owned by fans be investing into the team as well?

Have we been told that?

"The other 49%" is already in the club. It's only the £2.5m maximum that is new money.

[ancient hibee]

We've been told whatever is raised from the 51% is going right back into the team. Will the other 49% not owned by fans be investing into the team as well?

The other 49% are not being bought -as they are held by the owners who are just lobbing in the thick end of £10 M don't think they will be over keen to put in even more.

[CropleyWasGod]

What has happened/ will happen to those shares gifted by STF to shareholders when his original acquisition of the club happened?

What's the minimum and maximum amount of shares available to purchase by any single individual in this latest share offering?

They are still owned by fans, and there shouldn't be any change. You can't just cancel shares like that.... well, you can, but it's complicated and I wouldn't see the point. :greengrin

[PatHead]

As writing off debts has taxation benefits for banks they are not allowed to call a debt "bad" if it is actually "good" which Hibs debts were.

Fair point. On the other hand the bank may want an exit strategy as well and this seems an industry in which banks do not wish to be involved. In an effort to get out the market they may be willing to take a hit by agreeing a repayment figure now. Remember when banks did that with petrol stations a few years ago.

[Islington Hibs]

Does STF intend to maintain his current shareholding (Ultimately49%) or is he looking to exit completely i.e sell his sake?

[ano hibby]

How much money does the club save on professional advisory fees by consulting learned Hibs.net members on their proposals?
:)

[CropleyWasGod]

How much money does the club save on professional advisory fees by consulting learned Hibs.net members on their proposals?
:)

At my rates, freaking millions.

[CropleyWasGod]

Will the previous policy of prioritising shareholders for Cup Final tickets be reinstated?

:devil:




Edit:- not a serious question :)

[Andy74]

Fair point. On the other hand the bank may want an exit strategy as well and this seems an industry in which banks do not wish to be involved. In an effort to get out the market they may be willing to take a hit by agreeing a repayment figure now. Remember when banks did that with petrol stations a few years ago.

Fair enough but why then is it the holding company writing off £4.5m?

That's in the announcement and so is the fact there will still be £5m left.

Where does that leave any indication that the bank wrote any off?

We surely weren't much more than £9.5m in debt were we?

[CropleyWasGod]

Fair enough but why then is it the holding company writing off £4.5m?

That's in the announcement and so is the fact there will still be £5m left.

Where does that leave any indication that the bank wrote any off?

We surely weren't much more than £9.5m in debt were we?

The bit that gets me in that respect is the claim that we have "halved" our debt. Now that may be just literary licence, but it may also mean that the debt was actually £10m. In that case, the bank have written off £500k.

The £10m chimes with gossip I heard back in August. I dismissed it at the time, but it may be right.

[CropleyWasGod]

Another question, purely out of curiosity, but probably not important in the great scheme of things.

Is the holding company taking out a security on the £5m loan.?

[Jonnyboy]

Given that punters owing money on a credit card can move the debt to an interest free one, does ............ The remaining loans will be refinanced as a single £5m mortgage provided by the holding company on terms acceptable to the Club.............. mean the loan is interest free? :wink:

[wfortune]

Is there any safeguards that a single individual can't just gain control for the 2.5 million

[Hermit Crab]

How long will we have to raise the 2.5m needed for 51%?

what exactly will all monies raised be used for? Playing staff, equipment wages etc?

[PatHead]

How will people not on the internet find out the detail- by mail or public meetings or both?

[Mikey]

Last call...........

[Mikey]

Closed!

Thanks folks. The full Q&A will be posted up sometime tomorrow late afternoon/evening.

[Mikey]

As is always the case with these things there's a lot of duplication. If you don't see your question it's because it was similar to another one and is either already in there or has been merged into another question.