Press Conference (Fan Ownership Proposal and Debt Halved)

[PatHead]

Bounce saying there is a press conference re Hibs Future tomorrow

[bingo70]

Bounce saying there is a press conference re Hibs Future tomorrow

Hope it's not hands on hibs or buyhibs press conference, last thing we need just now.

[Pretty Boy]

Hope it's not hands on hibs or buyhibs press conference, last thing we need just now.

I believe it's the club who are having a press conference.

[PatHead]

Hope it's not hands on hibs or buyhibs press conference, last thing we need just now.

Says "Hibs are holding"

[Last Minute]

Club debt free ?[emoji6]


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[BoltonHibee]

Must be good news otherwise they would wait until after the Hearts game

[Aldo]

Must be good news otherwise they would wait until after the Hearts game

Indeed. Would be quite good if it was the debt free thing that was talked about a few weeks back.

Would really stick in the yams throats that one!!

[Pretty Boy]

Petrie leaving after the AGM
Debt reduction deal agreed
Griffiths signing first of January
Allan 5 year extension
West Stand helipad fully operational by next season

That would do for starters.

[CallumLaidlaw]

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/12/28/6ac724a3ba2fa431f8293d77d2c33b09.jpg

[HNA5]

Can we keep this thread on topic please without posts just using smileys?

[Glory Lurker]

Debt free would be fantastic.

[Hermit Crab]

Any idea what time?

[Chibs]

Hope it's not hands on hibs or buyhibs press conference, last thing we need just now.
I agree completely.

[silverhibee]

Petrie leaving after the AGM
Debt reduction deal agreed
Griffiths signing first of January
Allan 5 year extension
West Stand helipad fully operational by next season

That would do for starters.

I think the first two are a certainty. Please let PB and me be right.

[Col2]

Given its Derby week, the weekend after a fantastic results and between Xmas and new year I would be willing to bet that it's GOOD NEWS.

And just in time for the Jan transfer window assuming it's financially related.

won't be Griffiths loan deal. That might be held back to later in the week.... :)

[The Baldmans Comb]

It will be the fans ownership Mark 2 Hibs sponsored project together with how the club moves to a debt free scenario and maybe East Mains going to a charity type status to cut the overheads.

It's all been widely leaked for weeks and now is the time for the official detail.

[Pete]

Bound to be debt reduction...and every hearts fan I have spoken to would be more than happy for us.

A new, debt-free era for Scottish football would be a great thing. I would love it if we could all streamline ourselves within a league structure that puts fairness, competitiveness and youth first. Together we would outgrow the Glasgow clubs. Their mindset which involves financial excesses and ingrained bigotry wouldn't be compatible.

All the non OF clubs becoming debt free would give us all the aces.

[trev the hat]

Bounce saying there is a press conference re Hibs Future tomorrow

The OP on bounce is NW
Has this been announced by the club & any journos been invited or is it speculation ?

[Mikey]

The OP on bounce is NW
Has this been announced by the club & any journos been invited or is it speculation ?

One of the admins here got the info around the same time and it came from a journalist.

[trev the hat]

One of the admins here got the info around the same time and it came from a journalist.

Thanks Mikey

[CallumLaidlaw]

If any journalists are live tweeting from it, can people keep this thread updated as I'm in work so cant see twitter, etc.

[bingo70]

If any journalists are live tweeting from it, can people keep this thread updated as I'm in work so cant see twitter, etc.

If it was anything major it would have been leaked by now imo.

Will probably just be the weekly press conference but a bit earlier due to holiday season.

Can't remember if papers print on the first? Journos will be off then so needs to be the start of the week to get maximum media coverage.

[scoopyboy]

If it was anything major it would have been leaked by now imo.

Will probably just be the weekly press conference but a bit earlier due to holiday season.

Can't remember if papers print on the first? Journos will be off then so needs to be the start of the week to get maximum media coverage.

Contract extensions?

[Brightside]

Fans to be given the chance to own 51% of club.

[Pretty Boy]

Twitter suggesting it will be a plan to allow supporters the chance to own 51% of the club.

[Brightside]

Nick Rougvie ‏@rougvie77 11s11 seconds ago
Percentage of club ownership will be reduced as new shares picked up. #hibs

[carnoustiehibee]

@rougvie77: #Hibs board announce intention to allow supporters to own up to 51% of club.

@rougvie77: Percentage of club ownership will be reduced as new shares picked up. #hibs

[RSS Bot]

More... (http://www.hibernianfc.co.uk/news/5060)

[Brightside]

debt cut in half.

[Pretty Boy]

http://www.hibernianfc.co.uk/news/5060

[Brightside]

http://www.hibernianfc.co.uk/news/5060

[Pretty Boy]

On the face of it seems like great news.

[Bishop Hibee]

I wonder what the minimum investment in shares will be? Great news about the debt being sorted out. £5m mortgage should be manageable.

[stoneyburn hibs]

On the face of it seems like great news.

Agree, very positive.

[brog]

More... (http://www.hibernianfc.co.uk/news/5060)

Game, set & match methinks! :wink:

[Brightside]

Great news for Hibs and Hibs fans. Hopefully all the other distractions can get behind this now and let the team concentrate on football.

[s.a.m]

Board statement copied and pasted, for folks that can't follow links:

STATEMENT FROM HIBERNIANBy: Hibernian Media on 29 Dec, 2014 11:32


Today the Board of Hibernian Football Club is announcing its intention that supporters will have the opportunity to own up to 51% of the shares in the Club. All money raised from supporters through this process will go direct into the Club, to help fund sporting ambition.
Money raised will not be used to buy shares from existing shareholders. Instead, the money raised will go into the Club in return for new shares. Existing shareholders, including the holding company, will retain their existing shares but their percentage ownership of the Club will be reduced as new shares are issued. New shares up to the value of £2.5m will be made available so that over time the holding company’s ownership will be diluted to less than 50% of the enlarged share capital of the Club.

The home of Hibernian Football Club is Easter Road Stadium. The Club has also created a state of the art Training Centre. The property assets were valued at more than £25m in July 2014 on a depreciated replacement cost basis. It is a fundamental part of the Board’s strategy that Easter Road Stadium and the Hibernian Training Centre will continue to be owned by the Club.
Accordingly, supporters will have the opportunity to own shares in the Club which in turn owns Easter Road Stadium and the Training Centre and has received the cash raised by supporters.

The plan enjoys the support of Hibernian legend Pat Stanton.

The Club is pleased to confirm that it has agreed a settlement with Bank of Scotland and that the Club is now free of Bank debt. That settlement was funded by new loans provided by the holding company to the Club and by a payment made direct to the Bank. The fixed securities held by the Bank over Easter Road Stadium and the Hibernian Training Centre have been released.

Following the settlement with the Bank, the holding company has agreed to halve the Club’s debt by converting £4.5 million of loans into new ordinary shares in the Club. A formal written resolution to give effect to this will be sent to shareholders with the papers for the AGM. The remaining loans will be refinanced as a single £5m mortgage provided by the holding company on terms acceptable to the Club.
To underpin this commitment to wider supporter involvement and ownership, two new Non-Executive Directors are being elected directly by supporters. The election process amongst the 17 candidates is underway and the two new directors will be in place by the time of the AGM on 28 January 2015.

The Board is making these commitments following a full consultation with supporters both at a series of supporter meetings attended by over 500 supporters and based on the results of an online survey of the views of almost 4,000 supporters.
The Board will be sending details of its plans to shareholders in the second week in January in advance of the AGM.
Club Chairman Rod Petrie said: “The environment of Scottish football is changing including a working group set up by the Scottish Government to look at supporter involvement with football clubs. After extensive consultations with supporters we have decided on the Hibernian Way, the right way forward for Hibernian Football Club.

“Supporters will have the opportunity to contribute directly to their Club. The more supporters contribute then the more of the Club they will own. And by owning the Club they will also own Easter Road Stadium and the Training Centre and the cash they raise.”
Leeann Dempster added: “The Board’s plan is radical, a real first in Scottish football. I think it’s daring, exciting and we now need all supporters to rally behind the plan and take the Club forward on a united footing. The opportunity exists, and now it’s up to all of us to take it and make it work.

“Supporters should not lose sight of the fact that the one thing they can always do to support the Club in its ambitions is to come along to games and support the team – through buying Season Tickets, through walk-up and through buying merchandise from the club store.
“Hibernian supporters are rightly proud of the Club and its history, and I want to assure them that the plans we have will make them even prouder in future.”

Pat Stanton said: “A lot of people have come forward since relegation, and they’ve done so because they care passionately about our Club. A lot has been said, and now it is the time to get behind the team, and support this plan. As far as I am concerned, the plan gives people what they have been telling me they want, a much greater stake in their Club.

“I am particularly delighted that the stadium and training centre will remain in the ownership of the Club, and therefore the supporters. I would urge supporters to look at what is being proposed, and I think they will find it to their liking.

“Things also look to be going in the right direction where it matters most, on the park, and I would urge everyone to unite behind the Club.”
Head Coach Alan Stubbs added: “I think supporters will really embrace the opportunity to have such a stake in their Club, and I echo Pat’s sentiments that we all need to unite behind the Club now. If we do, we can progress even faster.”

[Hibs90]

The Club is pleased to confirm that it has agreed a settlement with Bank of Scotland and that the Club is now free of Bank debt. That settlement was funded by new loans provided by the holding company to the Club and by a payment made direct to the Bank. The fixed securities held by the Bank over Easter Road Stadium and the Hibernian Training Centre have been released.

[col02]

In short the club gets a financial injection and fans get to be part of the ownership. All seems positive to me.

[Seven Zero]

Good news for the club. Great start to the week!

[TowerHibs]

Reading that it seems a great situation. Free from bank debt but would like to see the terms of a one off mortgage payment and the rates the holding company are giving on that.

Silly to see Pat Stanton fully behind this . Was he not fully behind Kanos thibg

[Cropley10]

Great news.

[DarrenSQH]

Great news.

Glad to owe nothing to the banks

[Ken]

Superb news!
1. No bank debt
2. Overall debt halved to £5m
3. 51% of the club being sold to the fans at a total cost of £2.5m
4. Clarity that the club owns both the stadium and the training ground
5. £2.5m will not go to existing shareholders and go into the club

[sleeping giant]

So what does that actually mean in terms of potential money saved/extra money for the season?

[Stuarty27]

This is fantastic news.

This seems a real option for me to put my hand in my pocket and buy shares .

[Mikey]

This is fantastic news.

This seems a real option for me to put my hand in my pocket and buy shares .

That's the key thing for us regular punters. Anyone who can afford it really needs to see what they can spare and put it in.

We need to do this together, it's not just something that someone else does.

[Bristolhibby]

Definitely up for buying some shares. This is a brilliant idea, been saying for ages that like in Germany we need 51% fan ownership.

If I were being radicle I would say all football clubs must have 51% fan ownership.

J

[SmashinGlass]

Bet Hands on Hibs are proud of their asset stripping allegations now......

[marinello59]

After first reading of that it does looking the club have come up with something that the majority can unite behind. Fingers crossed.

[erin go bragh]

Brilliant news imho . Own a part of my beloved club ? Where do i sign :)

Ggtth

[Pretty Boy]

That's the key thing for us regular punters. Anyone who can afford it really needs to see what they can spare and put it in.

We need to do this together, it's not just something that someone else does.

Will be interesting how the sale of shares works. Will there be a minimum purchase? I'd like to buy but it will be the cost that determines whether I can or not.

[BOB MARLEYS DUG]

Excellent news. Well done Hibs :thumbsup:

[Tyler Durden]

Reading that it seems a great situation. Free from bank debt but would like to see the terms of a one off mortgage payment and the rates the holding company are giving on that.

Silly to see Pat Stanton fully behind this . Was he not fully behind Kanos thibg

It's not a one off mortgage payment. It's a single mortgage, ie one loan from the holding company. Interested to understand how that is structured though, for example is there a working capital element? But those more detailed questions can hopefully be covered during the AGM.

The loan to holding company would equate to existing holding co loans + funding of the payment made to Lloyds I would imagine

[Ray_]

Superb News, well done Sir Tom Farmer and everybody else involved, now we wait on the shares being released :thumbsup:

[Libby Hibby]

All good, positive news. Hibs are certainly a club on the up at present. Long may it continue.

GGTTH

[TowerHibs]

It's not a one off mortgage payment. It's a single mortgage, ie one loan from the holding company. Interested to understand how that is structured though, for example is there a working capital element? But those more detailed questions can hopefully be covered during the AGM.

The loan to holding company would equate to existing holding co loans + funding of the payment made to Lloyds I would imagine
Well I read it that we now have a one off debt to the holding company. Again, as you say, be interesting to see the terms of this and if we are saving any real money

[fat freddy]

Again, we owe Sir Tom Farmer our gratitude, he's had a hard time recently from sections of the Hibs support but he can't be faulted in his desire to look after the long term health of the club.

[1two]

"The mortgage will be provided by the holding company with payments made at level acceptable to the club."

Not looking to put any sort of negative take on this, just a question I have after initially reading the statement...

We have consolidated our debt into one mortgage which is provided by HFC Holdings - Tom Farmer & Petries company??
The club (owned by Farmer, chaired by Petrie) agree the amount the club will pay the holding company?

I could be positive and say this is good because all the debt is now owed to ourselves :aok: (ive heard that somewhere before) :rolleyes:
Or i could be cynical and ask if this means that this agreement set up by Farmer and Petrie means that all future debt payments will now go to directly to Farmer and Petrie?

[greenlex]

I sincerely hope all Hibs fans can dig deep and unite now. I also hope that any shortfall( and there will be) can be "underwritten" by either a wealthy individual benefactor or a group of wealthy Hibs men/women. GGTTH

[BOB MARLEYS DUG]

Again, we owe Sir Tom Farmer our gratitude, he's had a hard time recently from sections of the Hibs support but he can't be faulted in his desire to look after the long term health of the club.

:agree:

[smurf]

I honestly think that with no sense of urgency we will very much struggle to get anywhere near the 51% unless wealthy individuals buy a large share.

I would also be very keen to know the terms on the holding company mortgage....

[Leith_Hibee]

Good news, couple of things I'd like to find out to make this excellent news:

- terms of the loan between the football club and the holding company...I'd hope they are favourable and not a way to squeeze more cash out the club
- petrie's future involvement...no mention of an exit strategy for rodders...feel this may be a deterrent to investors

Onwards and upwards

[flash]

Well as they have basically written off £4.5 million owed to them by converting it to shares I guess ripping us off isn't top of the agenda.

[TowerHibs]

If we can't all get together and raise £2.5m for ownership then I'd be worried.

Obviously let's see the terms but I would hope that for all our mocking of the hearts fans over the years, we can rise and unite as one strong determined support

[greenlex]

Well as they have basically written off £4.5 million owed to them by converting it to shares I guess ripping us off isn't top of the agenda.

This will be completely lost on some individuals.

[Scònaldò]

Great news indeed! Does anyone have a clue as to when the shares will be available to buy and what price they will start at?

[Tyler Durden]

Well I read it that we now have a one off debt to the holding company. Again, as you say, be interesting to see the terms of this and if we are saving any real money

I wouldn't expect it to be repayable in a single payment, is all I meant.

Would expect the holding co would charge us cost of funding or as near as possible. Rather than the margins the bank would charge, albeit they seemed competitive from figures previously speculated. Just taking into account the debt quantum being reduced should reduce our interest costs by 30-40%. Which at the moment is probably reducing our losses if nothing else.

[Mikey]

I honestly think that with no sense of urgency we will very much struggle to get anywhere near the 51% unless wealthy individuals buy a large share.

I would also be very keen to know the terms on the holding company mortgage....

We're in the Championship and need to get out at the first time of asking and you're going on about "no sense of urgency".

It doesn't matter what they do you'll turn it around.

[Mikey]

This will be completely lost on some individuals.

It's started already.

[TowerHibs]

I wouldn't expect it to be repayable in a single payment, is all I meant.

Would expect the holding co would charge us cost of funding or as near as possible. Rather than the margins the bank would charge, albeit they seemed competitive from figures previously speculated. Just taking into account the debt quantum being reduced should reduce our interest costs by 30-40%. Which at the moment is probably reducing our losses if nothing else.
Oh yeah, I never meant single payment. Wires crossed moment

[mondacabbage]

Will be interesting how the sale of shares works. Will there be a minimum purchase? I'd like to buy but it will be the cost that determines whether I can or not.

If there is a minimum purchase it needs to be set at a reasonable level to allow as many fans as possible to participate

[CropleyWasGod]

I wouldn't expect it to be repayable in a single payment, is all I meant.

Would expect the holding co would charge us cost of funding or as near as possible. Rather than the margins the bank would charge, albeit they seemed competitive from figures previously speculated. Just taking into account the debt quantum being reduced should reduce our interest costs by 30-40%. Which at the moment is probably reducing our losses if nothing else.
It's not just the interest that we'll save. In cash flow terms, we won't have to find the capital.

On my phone, so can't see the accounts, but it might save us 300k a year.

[Ronniekirk]

Will definitely buy shares as will my son However the single mortgage iPads as people are saying needs more detail and AGM will be platform where key questions and clarification can be sought . It's good news but only if we unite behind it and make share issue success .
The issue of succession and what happens going forward is still something I wouldlike to see openly addressed at AGM
Also keen to hear what CWG. View is

[Mikey]

If there is a minimum purchase it needs to be set at a reasonable level to allow as many fans as possible to participate

Or perhaps even a way of buying with monthly payments. That would make it a lot easier for people who want to chip in.

[grunt]

terms of the loan between the football club and the holding company...i'd hope they are favourable and not a way to squeeze more cash out the club
ffs.

[1two]

This will be completely lost on some individuals.

Our debt was £6.4M in 2012 according to accounts, what was it in 2013?

[Mikey]

Our debt was £6.4M in 2012 according to accounts, what was it in 2013?

We don't know as the accounts haven't been sent out yet.

[CropleyWasGod]

Will definitely buy shares as will my son However the single mortgage iPads as people are saying needs more detail and AGM will be platform where key questions and clarification can be sought . It's good news but only if we unite behind it and make share issue success .
The issue of succession and what happens going forward is still something I wouldlike to see openly addressed at AGM
Also keen to hear what CWG. View is
On my phone so not had a chance to study it properly.
At first sight, not a lot to dislike. Cash flow will be better, we still own ER and EM, and STF'S influence may reduce.

I do wonder if this is the beginning of STF'S exit strategy.

[ronaldo7]

Looks like the bank account will take a hit. Well done hibs.

[1two]

Well as they have basically written off £4.5 million owed to them by converting it to shares I guess ripping us off isn't top of the agenda.

Last years net debt was £5.5 Million according to club accounts. We now have a one off £5M Mortgage.

If i'm missing something please let me know.
Not being negative, just a genuine question

[IanM]

If there is a minimum purchase it needs to be set at a reasonable level to allow as many fans as possible to participate

Never a better time than to create a season ticket/share issue 'packet' which means you can invest into watching the team and supporting it further - not sure if this idea would work but if it could be done then I'm sure folk that bought a ST would then invest a bit more

[greenlex]

10,000 of us £250 each. Job Done. Come on folks just about half the price of a season ticket!!!

[1two]

Last years net debt was £5.5 Million according to club accounts. We now have a one off £5M Mortgage.

If i'm missing something please let me know.
Not being negative, just a genuine question


We don't know as the accounts haven't been sent out yet.

My apologies, the 2011 debt in accounts released in 2012 was £6.4M
The 2012 net debt in accounts released in 2013 was £5.5M

The latest figure we have is £5.5M
Our debt as of the statement today is £5M

How can this be a debt reduction of £4.5M??

[Tyler Durden]

It's not just the interest that we'll save. In cash flow terms, we won't have to find the capital.

On my phone, so can't see the accounts, but it might save us 300k a year.

We will also be free of any operating conditions agreed with the bank. It wouldn't be uncommon for player costs to be restricted to a set percentage of turnover for example. Which is of course a good discipline but it will be for the board to decide independently now.

[smurf]

We're in the Championship and need to get out at the first time of asking and you're going on about "no sense of urgency".

It doesn't matter what they do you'll turn it around.

I think you've entirely missed the point. The "sense of urgency" I'm talking about relates to the fan uptake on the available 51%. Are you seriously suggesting that there will be urgency to snap up this from the supporters?

I'm not turning anything around. I think on this board of directors I have unlike yourself been consistent.

[CropleyWasGod]

Last years net debt was £5.5 Million according to club accounts. We now have a one off £5M Mortgage.

If i'm missing something please let me know.
Not being negative, just a genuine question
The amount owed to the bank at May 2013 was 6.5m. There was also a further 1.5m owed to HFC Holdings.

We don't know what those figures are now, but if we take the club statement at face value it's 10m in total. It's that that has been reduced to 5m

[Weststandwanab]

It's started already.

It sure has and did not take long did it ?


If there is a minimum purchase it needs to be set at a reasonable level to allow as many fans as possible to participate

What starting level would you suggest ?


Will definitely buy shares as will my son However the single mortgage iPads as people are saying needs more detail and AGM will be platform where key questions and clarification can be sought . It's good news but only if we unite behind it and make share issue success .
The issue of succession and what happens going forward is still something I wouldlike to see openly addressed at AGM
Also keen to hear what CWG. View is

CWG cannot see the accounts.


Our debt was £6.4M in 2012 according to accounts, what was it in 2013?

It would be more meaningful to know what it is today !

[Hibbyradge]

It would be more meaningful to know what it is today !

It's £5m today. :wink:

[CropleyWasGod]

It's £5m today. :wink:
Still 10% higher than Hearts.

Sack the board.

[Mr Grieves]

It's started already.

People asking questions is not a bad thing.

[Col2]

So am I right in saying we no longer have any debt owed to a bank or any other 3rd party? The £5m we as a club now owe is wrapped together in a single 'mortgage' type debt payable to the holding company which is owned by Sir Tom Farmer? So our owner is the only person who can call in the debt then?

Zero reliance on external debt, and a reduction by half is brilliant news.

[PatHead]

Or perhaps even a way of buying with monthly payments. That would make it a lot easier for people who want to chip in.

Not sure that would be too easy under new FCA regulations. To them the thought of someone borrowing money to buy shares in an unlisted company would flag up all sorts of issues. Particularly when it is a purchase of emotion rather than an investment return.

Hope you can though.

[sleeping giant]

People asking questions is not a bad thing.

I agree.
I would imagine a lot of folks would like to know what it means in real terms.
Not negative in the slightest .

[Caversham Green]

Last years net debt was £5.5 Million according to club accounts. We now have a one off £5M Mortgage.

If i'm missing something please let me know.
Not being negative, just a genuine question

You should be looking a gross debt - cash in hand is an element of net debt but won't be affected here.

Gross debt was £6.9m and on to of that there was a sum of £1.5m owed to the parent company. That last part will have increased in the past year - indications are that it would have been a further £1m+. All that has been reduced to a single debt of £5m.

I would expect the interest rate to be what the parent company was charging previously - 1.5% over base, so currently 2%. The club will be paying it "direct to Petrie & Farmer" through the holding company, but that will ultimately be repaying half of the money that they've put in.

On the share issue, it appears there's no necessity to achieve the 51% level and it won't be in a single issue. It's likely to show the appetite Hibs fans have for owning their own club, but less than 51% ownership will not be a failure of any sort.

[1two]

So am I right in saying we no longer have any debt owed to a bank or any other 3rd party? The £5m we as a club now owe is wrapped together in a single 'mortgage' type debt payable to the holding company which is owned by Sir Tom Farmer? So our owner is the only person who can call in the debt then?

Zero reliance on external debt, and a reduction by half is brilliant news.

Not always a good thing, see Hearts/Romanov 2005-2013

[Seveno]

10,000 of us £250 each. Job Done. Come on folks just about half the price of a season ticket!!!

I think it will need a payment plan to get any where near the target figure. Unless, of course, a small number of large investors appear.

I shall be buying shares and will be delighted to own a part of the club that I love.

[Col2]

Not sure that would be too easy under new FCA regulations. To them the thought of someone borrowing money to buy shares in an unlisted company would flag up all sorts of issues. Particularly when it is a purchase of emotion rather than an investment return.

Hope you can though.

It could still be packaged up depending on timeline eg when payments made in full say £50 x 6 months then transaction completed.

[Jack Hackett]

Not always a good thing, see Hearts/Romanov 2005-2013

They 'owed it to themselves' apparently :faf:

[1two]

You should be looking a gross debt - cash in hand is an element of net debt but won't be affected here.

Gross debt was £6.9m and on to of that there was a sum of £1.5m owed to the parent company. That last part will have increased in the past year - indications are that it would have been a further £1m+. All that has been reduced to a single debt of £5m.

I would expect the interest rate to be what the parent company was charging previously - 1.5% over base, so currently 2%. The club will be paying it "direct to Petrie & Farmer" through the holding company, but that will ultimately be repaying half of the money that they've put in.

On the share issue, it appears there's no necessity to achieve the 51% level and it won't be in a single issue. It's likely to show the appetite Hibs fans have for owning their own club, but less than 51% ownership will not be a failure of any sort.

Thank You!!!!:aok:
I understand this

Apologies if i came across as being a bit cynical - but its because I am :greengrin

[connerg]

So am I right in saying we no longer have any debt owed to a bank or any other 3rd party? The £5m we as a club now owe is wrapped together in a single 'mortgage' type debt payable to the holding company which is owned by Sir Tom Farmer? So our owner is the only person who can call in the debt then?

Zero reliance on external debt, and a reduction by half is brilliant news.

Yes, that's the way it is. Another good point is the money we owe to the Holding Company (Tom Farmer) is payable on Hibs terms and not controlled by the bank.

[robinp]

Not always a good thing, see Hearts/Romanov 2005-2013

If the last 20+ years show anything between the mindsets of VR and Sir TF, I think that is where the similarities start and end in this particular scenario.

[1two]

Another question.
Will buying shares through this issue mean I'm a share holder in the same sense as it is just now and will be able to attend AGM etc?

[Col2]

Not always a good thing, see Hearts/Romanov 2005-2013

Farmer v's Vlad? One is stable, honest, kind etc. the other is a bonkers on a level never seen before. i couldn't think of two more contrasting situations.

[Gatecrasher]

Will wait for more details but it sounds good.

[CropleyWasGod]

Another question.
Will buying shares through this issue mean I'm a share holder in the same sense as it is just now and will be able to attend AGM etc?
Yep.

[Ken]

Not sure that would be too easy under new FCA regulations. To them the thought of someone borrowing money to buy shares in an unlisted company would flag up all sorts of issues. Particularly when it is a purchase of emotion rather than an investment return.

Hope you can though.

It may depend on when the share purchase deadline is, but I think the club should try and make this option available if it's allowed under the regulations.

Another options available to some supporters could be using a long term (12-18 months) interest free credit card - buying the shares outright and then setting up a standing order for x amount each month to pay it off before the interest free period ends.

[Seveno]

You should be looking a gross debt - cash in hand is an element of net debt but won't be affected here.

Gross debt was £6.9m and on to of that there was a sum of £1.5m owed to the parent company. That last part will have increased in the past year - indications are that it would have been a further £1m+. All that has been reduced to a single debt of £5m.

I would expect the interest rate to be what the parent company was charging previously - 1.5% over base, so currently 2%. The club will be paying it "direct to Petrie & Farmer" through the holding company, but that will ultimately be repaying half of the money that they've put in.

On the share issue, it appears there's no necessity to achieve the 51% level and it won't be in a single issue. It's likely to show the appetite Hibs fans have for owning their own club, but less than 51% ownership will not be a failure of any sort.

I guess that would work if the offer is re-opened every time we beat Rangers 4-0 or any victory over Hearts.

[Pretty Boy]

Is there a safeguard in place to stop one wealthy individual buying the full 51% available? Is it legal to have such a block in place?

Or if I had a spare £2.5M lying about could I pitch up and buy the lot and to hell with anyone else who wanted any?

[bingo70]

I agree.
I would imagine a lot of folks would like to know what it means in real terms.
Not negative in the slightest .

Yeah. There were lots of that statement that didn't make sense to me and I'm sure I'm not alone. (Not for a second am I saying that's the club's fault, sure what they've said makes sense to plenty)

Reduction in debt is obviously great but the fact the rest is no longer with the bank means nothing to me. If we're in debt then it still needs to be paid back, regardless if that's to a bank or a holding company?

Also interested to find out the finer details of how it'll work, if someone like me that's not a lot of spare cash can just chip in with £20 a month or of its a more significant amount required? (Incidentally, was this not the sort of detail buyhibs were criticised for not giving out?)

[Caversham Green]

Not always a good thing, see Hearts/Romanov 2005-2013

You mean the period when they won the Scottish Cup twice?

There are huge differences between what's happening to Hibs now and what Romanov did to HoMFC. Romanov threw other people's money at Hearts and was involved in other (dodgy) activities. It was also external demands that ultimately brought down his empire. We can start worrying about that happening to Hibs when the SFO start looking into Sir Tom Farmer's affairs. Even then we'd only have to find £5m rather than the £27m that HoMFC were in for (not to mention the further £40m that theyhad previously taken out of the pot).

[Greencore]

Let the mental January transfer buying begin!!

[CropleyWasGod]

Yeah. There were lots of that statement that didn't make sense to me and I'm sure I'm not alone. (Not for a second am I saying that's the club's fault, sure what they've said makes sense to plenty)

Reduction in debt is obviously great but the fact the rest is no longer with the bank means nothing to me. If we're in debt then it still needs to be paid back, regardless if that's to a bank or a holding company?

Also interested to find out the finer details of how it'll work, if someone like me that's not a lot of spare cash can just chip in with £20 a month or of its a more significant amount required? (Incidentally, was this not the sort of detail buyhibs were criticised for not giving out?)
The debt has been halved. That means we're having to find about half of the money we previously did to pay those loans.

The.money saved is available to the club for other things.

[PatHead]

It could still be packaged up depending on timeline eg when payments made in full say £50 x 6 months then transaction completed.

Hopefully there will be some way of doing it but FCA are very big on affordability and capacity for loss these days. (Quiet rightly so). They have also bought in guidelines about buying shares which make it that wee bit more difficult. Then don't forget all these PPI claim types about whether it was right for you to buy the shares in the first place when you were a first time investor.

Using your example you could simply put aside £50 per month in the bank and then buy £300 worth. Hibs would't need to get involved

[Ken]

Is there a safeguard in place to stop one wealthy individual buying the full 51% available? Is it legal to have such a block in place?

Or if I had a spare £2.5M lying about could I pitch up and buy the lot and to hell with anyone else who wanted any?

I would expect there to be a maximum number of shares 1 individual can purchase. £2.5m for 51% values the club at under £5m and our net assets are worth considerably more. There is also the added bonus that the £2.5m is going into the club you are purchasing shares in.

[oconnors_strip]

Will be interesting how the sale of shares works. Will there be a minimum purchase? I'd like to buy but it will be the cost that determines whether I can or not.

That's what I would like to know and also when they will become available as it's my dad's birthday in January and perfect present for him

[CropleyWasGod]

That's what I would like to know and also when they will become available as it's my dad's birthday in January and perfect present for him
2.5m for his birthday? What a lovely daughter. ....

[oconnors_strip]

Not sure that would be too easy under new FCA regulations. To them the thought of someone borrowing money to buy shares in an unlisted company would flag up all sorts of issues. Particularly when it is a purchase of emotion rather than an investment return.

Hope you can though.

Paying monthly is a great idea, but not a payment plan, set up a direct debit. Not sure how it would exactly work but It would suit many families and people who don't have large sums of money but still want to be part of Hibernian FC

[bingo70]

The debt has been halved. That means we're having to find about half of the money we previously did to pay those loans.

The.money saved is available to the club for other things.

Yeah I get that much. Suppose what I'm asking is what's the benefit to being in debt to a holding company instead of the bank? Debts still debt surely, once the money leaves our account it's irrelevant where it goes I'd have thought?

I'm not meaning that as a negative or a moan by the way, we've got rid of half our debt so today is clearly a good day, I'm just curious as to how it's all working.

[Andy74]

Some key things for me:

The bank just dudnt write off debt after all. They got paid.

No third party has any sort of security on the assets.

Everything is still to be owned by the club.

The purchase of shares would be direct by the looks of things so you get something out of it.

The money goes to the club and not the owner so I can see some benefit in paying towards it even though I'm not fussed in owning a bit of the club.

It appears Sir Tom has handed over a decent chunk of cash to reduce the overall debt.

Illustrates even more the stupid timing and approach by BuyHibs. Presume they will stand down now.

[PatHead]

Paying monthly is a great idea, but not a payment plan, set up a direct debit. Not sure how it would exactly work but It would suit many families and people who don't have large sums of money but still want to be part of Hibernian FC

Agree with what you say but that really is just a payment plan. Not trying to be awkward just trying to say - Don't blame Hibs if you can't.- I am sure they would find it a much easier way of selling shares.

[oconnors_strip]

2.5m for his birthday? What a lovely daughter. ....

Ssssssh don't tell anyone but I won the euro millions a few weeks ago, putting money in to the club and academy :wink:

[Andy74]

Yeah I get that much. Suppose what I'm asking is what's the benefit to being in debt to a holding company instead of the bank? Debts still debt surely, once the money leaves our account it's irrelevant where it goes I'd have thought?

I'm not meaning that as a negative or a moan by the way, we've got rid of half our debt so today is clearly a good day, I'm just curious as to how it's all working.

One thing is the bank doesn't have any security over assets anymore.

[PatHead]

Ssssssh don't tell anyone but I won the euro millions a few weeks ago, putting money in to the club and academy :wink:

Wondered who I shared the jackpot with.

[TowerHibs]

Some key things for me:

The bank just dudnt write off debt after all. They got paid.

No third party has any sort of security on the assets.

Everything is still to be owned by the club.

The purchase of shares would be direct by the looks of things so you get something out of it.

The money goes to the club and not the owner so I can see some benefit in paying towards it even though I'm not fussed in owning a bit of the club.

It appears Sir Tom has handed over a decent chunk of cash to reduce the overall debt.

Illustrates even more the stupid timing and approach by BuyHibs. Presume they will stand down now.

i agree with all that

[givescotlandfreedom]

Why don't we just stop paying our taxes and start pilfering from charities so we can forget about our debt all together? In a few months we can just pretend it never happened and celebrate our war win.

[Caversham Green]

Yeah. There were lots of that statement that didn't make sense to me and I'm sure I'm not alone. (Not for a second am I saying that's the club's fault, sure what they've said makes sense to plenty)

Reduction in debt is obviously great but the fact the rest is no longer with the bank means nothing to me. If we're in debt then it still needs to be paid back, regardless if that's to a bank or a holding company?

Also interested to find out the finer details of how it'll work, if someone like me that's not a lot of spare cash can just chip in with £20 a month or of its a more significant amount required? (Incidentally, was this not the sort of detail buyhibs were criticised for not giving out?)

The difference between bank and holding company debt is that we had to pay the bank £370k per annum, if we didn't we'd lose our assets. With the holding company loan it makes little sense for them to call in the debt since they effectively already own the assets. There's also more scope for renegotiation if we need the cash for any reason - such as a major signing. And of course the total debt is halved.

I suspect the share issues will follow a similar pattern to the one the Yams did prior to going bust - probably a minimum subscription of around £100 and possibly a number of issues stretched over a period of years. The difference is that the money will be for additional funding rather than trying to keep the club afloat, and we'll actually get our share certificates.

Maybe Hibs.net could start a fund for those who can't or don't want to pay the full minimum subscription.

[Mon Dieu4]

Some key things for me:

The bank just dudnt write off debt after all. They got paid.

No third party has any sort of security on the assets.

Everything is still to be owned by the club.

The purchase of shares would be direct by the looks of things so you get something out of it.

The money goes to the club and not the owner so I can see some benefit in paying towards it even though I'm not fussed in owning a bit of the club.

It appears Sir Tom has handed over a decent chunk of cash to reduce the overall debt.

Illustrates even more the stupid timing and approach by BuyHibs. Presume they will stand down now.

The bank won't have been paid in full though so sounds like they have written off a chunk of it for an early settlement, that was always going to be the case

[Seveno]

It seems to have attracted a lot of guests on to the site.

Will Hibs.net be buying any shares from the proceeds ? :greengrin

[Mikey]

It appears Sir Tom has handed over a decent chunk of cash to reduce the overall debt.

He has, but the club would do themselves a huge favour by letting people know that for sure. But I suspect it'll be like the North and South stands where he coughed up for them and never got his money back....

http://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?135671-So-what-happened-to-the-money-from-the-car-park


Illustrates even more the stupid timing and approach by BuyHibs. Presume they will stand down now.

Well seeing as their Chairman is quoted in the club's press release............


.

[Weststandwanab]

On my phone so not had a chance to study it properly.
At first sight, not a lot to dislike. Cash flow will be better, we still own ER and EM, and STF'S influence may reduce.

I do wonder if this is the beginning of STF'S exit strategy.

I think it has to be all the bits fit together.


The debt has been halved. That means we're having to find about half of the money we previously did to pay those loans.

The.money saved is available to the club for other things.

Or to pay back the reduced debt even more quickly or indeed a combination of both.


That's what I would like to know and also when they will become available as it's my dad's birthday in January and perfect present for him

I like your attitude.

[bingo70]

Some key things for me:

The bank just dudnt write off debt after all. They got paid.

No third party has any sort of security on the assets.

Everything is still to be owned by the club.

The purchase of shares would be direct by the looks of things so you get something out of it.

The money goes to the club and not the owner so I can see some benefit in paying towards it even though I'm not fussed in owning a bit of the club.

It appears Sir Tom has handed over a decent chunk of cash to reduce the overall debt.

Illustrates even more the stupid timing and approach by BuyHibs. Presume they will stand down now.

Bet the guys at buyhibs wish they met with the board when they had the chance now.

Saying that biding see it as a time to mock them or to take the piss, they clearly made a lot of mistakes but they were just trying to fix the club when it's got into a bit of a mess. I think they deserve credit for trying to do something, even if they don't for their execution of their plans.

[Godsahibby]

It may depend on when the share purchase deadline is, but I think the club should try and make this option available if it's allowed under the regulations.

Another options available to some supporters could be using a long term (12-18 months) interest free credit card - buying the shares outright and then setting up a standing order for x amount each month to pay it off before the interest free period ends.

I can't see Hibs Acquiring Bank allowing something like that without taking their own security, that would leave them exposed to a massive amount of risk.

[CropleyWasGod]

Is Sir Pat no longer with BH?

[scoopyboy]

Some key things for me:

The bank just dudnt write off debt after all. They got paid.

No third party has any sort of security on the assets.

Everything is still to be owned by the club.

The purchase of shares would be direct by the looks of things so you get something out of it.

The money goes to the club and not the owner so I can see some benefit in paying towards it even though I'm not fussed in owning a bit of the club.

It appears Sir Tom has handed over a decent chunk of cash to reduce the overall debt.

Illustrates even more the stupid timing and approach by BuyHibs. Presume they will stand down now.



Yes, I agree, but obviously they didn't get the full amount they were owed or the debt would still be the same.

[spike220]

The shares look like excellent value form an investors point of view.

[CropleyWasGod]

Yes, I agree, but obviously they didn't get the full amount they were owed or the debt would still be the same.
HFC have taken part of it over and STF seems to have paid part of it. Doesn't look like the Bank have lost out at all.

[CropleyWasGod]

The shares look like excellent value form an investors point of view.
Anyone thinking that would be better advised to listen to Sergey's betting tips ☺

[Hibbyradge]

The shares look like excellent value form an investors point of view.

Would the shares be floated on a stock market?

[Caversham Green]

Yes, I agree, but obviously they didn't get the full amount they were owed or the debt would still be the same.

No doubt there will have been an early settlement discount - that's normal practice but the bulk of the reduction seems to be through the issue of new shares - a good old debt for equity swap. Andy was certainly right when he said they wouldn't just write it all off.

[Caversham Green]

Would the shares be floated on a stock market?

I think the club may have to convert to a plc, but I doubt whether the shares will ever be floated.

[CropleyWasGod]

Would the shares be floated on a stock market?
No. There be dragons that way.

We will remain private. No reason not to.

[Gatecrasher]

Is there any speculation on how this will work? will it be a d/d like buy Hibs or will it be a one payment if say £100, are there likely to be tiers like £100/£200/£500 options?

[Itsnoteasy]

10,000 of us £250 each. Job Done. Come on folks just about half the price of a season ticket!!!

If the 35000 that went to cup finals against Livi & Killie bought shares that would be £71.50 each.

[sadtom]

Any debt reduction has to be welcomed and further moves to fan ownership is certainly good news in my opinion.
However its not the earth shattering news I was hoping for.
Like some others have mentioned, I'm shocked that our debt (as of yesterday;-)) is being quoted as 10 mill, I would has assumed 8 mil would have been closer to the figure, which is disappointing enough. By all accounts we have slashed the budget since relegation and have stayed within the recommended wages to turnover ratio for over a decade.
In that period I know that we have finished the stadium and built the training facility. Though we raked in 15 in transfers and 8 million for the sale of the land behind the east stand. For our debt to be as high as it is aint great.
Not owing the banks a bolt is fantastic but ultimately we are still 5mill in debt (only 1.4 mill better off than 2/3 years ago).
All in all, its good news though I confess to being a little underwhelmed.

[Andy74]

Yes, I agree, but obviously they didn't get the full amount they were owed or the debt would still be the same.

Don't agree. I think Sir Tom paid the balance.

[Tyler Durden]

No doubt there will have been an early settlement discount - that's normal practice but the bulk of the reduction seems to be through the issue of new shares - a good old debt for equity swap. Andy was certainly right when he said they wouldn't just write it all off.

Andy said there would be no write off, he didn't say all. He was entirely incorrect

[CropleyWasGod]

I'm not sure what you are basing that on? STF has bought the debt from the bank at a considerable discount.
Doesn't say that in the statement I read.

It mentions a "direct payment". That could only have come from STF or HFCH.....

[Eyrie]

On the face of it this is great news, although the devil will be in the detail.

Farmer and Petrie are taking a double hit by firstly paying off the existing bank debt in exchange for shares which will have little resale value.
Then they will be ceding control to the fans once we've purchased 51% of the shares.
That 51% does not need to be bought immediately, but we will have the chance to purchase it over time.
The money from those shares goes to the club.
There is explicit confirmation that both Easter Road and East Mains will continue to be owned by the club.
Pat Stanton is on board.
The remaining debt will be owed to the holding company (ie Farmer and Petrie) but on terms acceptable to the club, so we don't have to worry about high interest rates. Presumably this debt will be secured, but that is normal practice and a non-issue as we can easily afford the repayments.

Subject to the details (ie minimum purchase), I'm extremely interested in buying shares.

Edit - presumably there is no reason why a group of supporters couldn't set up a trust to purchase shares as well as us doing so as individuals. A bit like BuyHibs, but properly thought through this time.

[Weststandwanab]

Would the shares be floated on a stock market?

More chance of me having dinner with Kylie tonight.


Doesn't say that in the statement I read.

It mentions a "direct payment". That could only have come from STF or HFCH.....

9 ways to skin a Rabbit.

[CropleyWasGod]

Andy said there would be no write off, he didn't say all. He was entirely incorrect
There is no hard evidence that the bank wrote anything off. Neither is there any that they didn't.

At this stage, we can only speculate.

[Hermit Crab]

10,000 of us £250 each. Job Done. Come on folks just about half the price of a season ticket!!!

I and many others can't afford that. Dreamland stuff mate.

[Tyler Durden]

There is no hard evidence that the bank wrote anything off. Neither is there any that they didn't.

At this stage, we can only speculate.

In the spirit of speculation there was a post on this board, as well as Kickback which quoted some very specific details of the agreement. This report by Luke Shanley was along the same lines.

http://m.skysports.com/article/football//9598909

[Salisbury Hibby]

Or perhaps even a way of buying with monthly payments. That would make it a lot easier for people who want to chip in.

I wouldn't have thought there's a time limit (apart from once they've gone, they're gone) so would have thought just buy what you can afford as and when. As long as the minimum purchase is affordable of course.

I would like to see "The Hibernian" scheme members get rewarded in some way with bonus shares otherwise we may see funds being diverted from that into share purchase.

[Hibbyradge]

In the spirit of speculation there was a post on this board, as well as Kickback which quoted some very specific details of the agreement. This report by Luke Shanley was along the same lines.

http://m.skysports.com/article/football//9598909

Hibs responded to that article by stating that it was wrong, or words to that effect, IIRC.

[grunt]

This report by Luke Shanley was along the same lines.

http://m.skysports.com/article/football//9598909
This article by Luke Shanley is so full of conjecture and mistakes it is barely worth reading. IMO.

[Andy74]

Andy said there would be no write off, he didn't say all. He was entirely incorrect

Read our exchanges again. I was entirely correct.

[CropleyWasGod]

In the spirit of speculation there was a post on this board, as well as Kickback which quoted some very specific details of the agreement. This report by Luke Shanley was along the same lines.

http://m.skysports.com/article/football//9598909
It's wrong on so many levels. No complete write-off, no trust.

And it's Sky [emoji33]

[trev the hat]

You should be looking a gross debt - cash in hand is an element of net debt but won't be affected here.

Gross debt was £6.9m and on to of that there was a sum of £1.5m owed to the parent company. That last part will have increased in the past year - indications are that it would have been a further £1m+. All that has been reduced to a single debt of £5m.

I would expect the interest rate to be what the parent company was charging previously - 1.5% over base, so currently 2%. The club will be paying it "direct to Petrie & Farmer" through the holding company, but that will ultimately be repaying half of the money that they've put in.

On the share issue, it appears there's no necessity to achieve the 51% level and it won't be in a single issue. It's likely to show the appetite Hibs fans have for owning their own club, but less than 51% ownership will not be a failure of any sort.

Will we find out at the AGM if the reported £1m cash in bank has been utilised in this deal or whether we still have it.

[CropleyWasGod]

Will we find out at the AGM if the reported £1m cash in bank has been utilised in this deal or whether we still have it.
Cav was referring to the 2013 accounts, which are well out of date. Even the 2014 accounts, which will be presented at the AGM , will.be out of date.

We have no way of knowing what our cash position is just now. I doubt, though, if the football club have had any financial input in the deal.

[Hibby Bairn]

Or perhaps even a way of buying with monthly payments. That would make it a lot easier for people who want to chip in.

This is critical.

Years ago I was involved with the purchase of a coal mine where the employees were offered the chance to buy a stake. A bank offered personal loans at cheap rates to help each employee take a stake up front.

It would be fantastic if HFC Holdings could offer a low cost credit facility so that individual supporters could take a 2 year 'loan' to enable the cash to be realised immediately with individual supporters repaying at £10 or so per month.

This would make it more attractive and affordable for thousands to get involved.

[Kato]

Illustrates even more the stupid timing and approach by BuyHibs. Presume they will stand down now.

Or it could be the pressure exerted by BuyHibs forced STF into action.

Although I know you will never, ever admit that that might be the case.

[HibbyAndy]

So are we debt free then or no?.. Some folk saying he only paid HALF the debt?

[grunt]

Will we find out at the AGM if the reported £1m cash in bank has been utilised in this deal or whether we still have it.There would be very little point in utilising our working capital to fund this deal when STF is our lender of last resort. He'd just have to pay the wages out of his own pocket. Which is what it looks like he did for some part of last year.

[grunt]

So are we debt free then or no?.. Some folk saying he only paid HALF the debt?We have no external debt - i.e. to the banks. The total amount of our gross debt has allegedly halved. We still owe money to the holding company.

[Tyler Durden]

It's wrong on so many levels. No complete write-off, no trust.

And it's Sky [emoji33]

I was referring to the section on the agreement with the bank. I don't see anything in Hibs statement which contradicts his understanding.

As I said, there was another post on here weeks before these reports, which Mikey has referred to at times. It seemed very detailed to be guess work.

[Thecat23]

I love this club.

That is all I have to add!!!

[HibbyAndy]

We have no external debt - i.e. to the banks. The total amount of our gross debt has allegedly halved. We still owe money to the holding company.



:aok:

[trev the hat]

Cav was referring to the 2013 accounts, which are well out of date. Even the 2014 accounts, which will be presented at the AGM , will.be out of date.

We have no way of knowing what our cash position is just now. I doubt, though, if the football club have had any financial input in the deal.

I see thanks, I remember Hibs stating we had circa £1m cash in the bank which if was still there given almost certain losses for the year would be most welcome.

[Caversham Green]

Will we find out at the AGM if the reported £1m cash in bank has been utilised in this deal or whether we still have it.

The cash in hand is working capital and will have been used in the day to day operations of the club. IMHO it has no place in the assessment of any company's debt position and will certainly not have been used in this transaction.

It was £1.4m at 31 July 2013, but I would expect it to be lower for 2014 because of the reduction in season tickets sold for 2014-15.

[Col2]

So hypothetically...

3 years to raise £2.5m

That's £833k pa

£70k per month

And we know Jambo's pay on average £18 pm (as a supporter guideline)

= 3900 supporters at £18 per month to purchase 51% AND contribute directly to cash flow of club by c£800k per year.

Seems do-able with the right structure, payment methods and supporting marketing and promotion.

[greenlex]

I and many others can't afford that. Dreamland stuff mate. I know HC. I am just pointing out that it is really doable. There will be fans that can afford less and some that can afford more. Hell there will be some that can afford nothing at all. I hope that maybe perhaps .net can pull some fans who can afford very little into a meaning full contribution and pool some cash to enable purchase. This is very doable and in a relatively short timescale IMHO. It just needs a will and where there's a will there's a way.

[Weststandwanab]

Or it could be the pressure exerted by BuyHibs forced STF into action.

Although I know you will never, ever admit that that might be the case.

I think that this is more probable than possible.


So hypothetically...

3 years to raise £2.5m

That's £833k pa

£70k per month

And we know Jambo's pay on average £18 pm (as a supporter guideline)

= 3900 supporters at £18 per month to purchase 51% AND contribute directly to cash flow of club by c£800k per year.

Seems do-able with the right structure, payment methods and supporting marketing and promotion.

I also think we will see a different method than that used by Budgie

[Caversham Green]

So hypothetically...

3 years to raise £2.5m

That's £833k pa

£70k per month

And we know Jambo's pay on average £18 pm (as a supporter guideline)

= 3900 supporters at £18 per month to purchase 51% AND contribute directly to cash flow of club by c£800k per year.

Seems do-able with the right structure, payment methods and supporting marketing and promotion.

I think the real point to stress is that we don't have to raise any money at all and what we do raise will just be going to improve the club's budgets - that's the fundamental difference between this proposal and HoMFC's share issue prior to their administration.

[Caversham Green]

We have no external debt - i.e. to the banks. The total amount of our gross debt has allegedly halved. We still owe money to the holding company.

Another way of looking at it is that the Hibs group is debt-free. We really do owe it to ourselves, and there are no external threats to the group's existence.

[BSEJVT]

Quite simply only those involved in the deal what actually occurred so future speculation on the he said she said guesses of the past is utterly pointless.

What do we know?

We know that there is now no bank debt.

Imo this is quite a smart move to have done this at this time as it saves the board being held to account for the increased debts of the business, some of which will have been incurred by relegation.

We now owe the holding company £5m, IMO this will be repaid from future player sales, this is a far kinder situation than the debt repayments being made from cash flow and the sword of Damocles hanging over the clubs head from the other loan (£2.5m being repaid in one payment in 2020 I think?)

The reduction in overall debt and the conversion of bank debt to holding company debt (presuming the continued benign attitude of the holding company) will improve cash flow greatly.

On the assumption that STF and RP (who conveniently gets ignored in this for any matters improving our situation by many) have pitched in some cash to repay the bank, then not only will their equity holding in the business be diluted by their gifting away 51% of their shares (the proceeds will be used to provide working capital for the business in the absence of bank funding) then they are also totally writing of the value of the cash they have pitched in.

Any way you cut it they have in one form or another done us a huge service and with any luck the bloodletting against them will now stop.

What does the future hold?

1) I wouldn't expect us to splash the £2.5m raised, its our working capital

2) But our costs should fall quite considerably as a result of the changes to our borrowing / its repayment terms.

3) What does this mean regarding future ownership of the club. I don't think, presuming the new shares are fully subscribed it makes that much difference, the party to whom STF ultimately sells will still wield an awful lot of power as they will only require to persuade 2% of the support to back them to hold a majority. It will hopefully be a substantial impediment though in blocking any full Romanov type takeover under which minority shareholders are cashed out.

[Gordon Quinn]

If the club and it's assets are worth circa £25m, how can they sell 51% for £2.5m? Why is it not £12.5m?

[Andy74]

Or it could be the pressure exerted by BuyHibs forced STF into action.

Although I know you will never, ever admit that that might be the case.

Seems unlikely given they launched after even the consultation evenings.

[The Falcon]

I'm not sure what you are basing that on? STF has bought the debt from the bank at a considerable discount.

Are you speculating or do you know the figures?

[CropleyWasGod]

If the club and it's assets are worth circa £25m, how can they sell 51% for £2.5m? Why is it not £12.5m?
The property has been valued on a replacement cost of 25m. In other words, that's what they would cost to rebuild.

The value to a new owner will be nowhere near that. For one thing, you have to deduct the 5m debt.

[Kato]

Seems unlikely given they launched after even the consultation evenings.

Yeah, no need to reply. I'd already speculated on the position you'd take.

I also thought to myself at some point you'd call BuyHibs "stupid".

For me if none of various groups had applied pressure then the position would not have changed.

[Dashing Bob S]

I think the real point to stress is that we don't have to raise any money at all and what we do raise will just be going to improve the club's budgets - that's the fundamental difference between this proposal and HoMFC's share issue prior to their administration.

That's the reason it will be a difficult target to reach. It's not about saving the club or offering an (alleged) path to fan ownership, but it's about providing extras. While its encouraging to see that all monies raised will be invested in playing side, it might be hard to motivate people to part with extra cash precisely because the club is now so secure.

[Caversham Green]

That's the reason it will be a difficult target to reach. It's not about saving the club or offering an (alleged) path to fan ownership, but it's about providing extras. While its encouraging to see that all monies raised will be invested in playing side, it might be hard to motivate people to part with extra cash precisely because the club is now so secure.

Agreed, except that it's not really a target. Every share that's sold represents a bonus to the club.

[Andy74]

Yeah, no need to reply. I'd already speculated on the position you'd take.

I also thought to myself at some point you'd call BuyHibs "stupid".

For me if none of various groups had applied pressure then the position would not have changed.

It's not just my position it's the fact this was all started before BuyHibs launched so to give them credit for it is pushing it.

What has been announced has largely mirrored the feedback from the surveys and consultations.

The club talked way back when Leeann was appointed about far reaching changes which she would be working on and Rod staying to oversee.

[ballengeich]

Has it been confirmed that £2.5m is the sum required to purchase 51% of the club?

As £4.5m of debt has been written off (presumably by Sir Tom Farmer) in return for shares additional to those already existing the amount seems remarkably small. Could the £2.5m refer to the face value of shares which trade at a greater price than the face value?

[GreenPJ]

Agreed, except that it's not really a target. Every share that's sold represents a bonus to the club.

In addition to share sold being of benefit to the sporting side of the club is it not also ultimately diluting STF/RP's % control and therefore is moving towards fan ownership?

People are suggesting it will be difficult to persuade people to buy as there isn't the need to buy - if people still want change at ownership/board level or at very least influence the decisions being taken by the board then I hope this will also persuade people to buy.

[BSEJVT]

If the club and it's assets are worth circa £25m, how can they sell 51% for £2.5m? Why is it not £12.5m?

They can issue new shares at any price they fancy as its their own equity they are diluting.

A charitable view might be that they wanted the support to be able to acquire 51% at a reasonable cost

Once issued the shares, will like any other share, be worth what someone will pay for them.

However as these are emotive purchase shares hopefully held by people with the clubs well being as their over riding concern there is unlikely to be much of a market and any transactions will be done at pretty much face value.

E.g. dad owns shares and dies and passes them onto children, one of the children doesn't want them and sells them to his cousin who does.

[Caversham Green]

Has it been confirmed that £2.5m is the sum required to purchase 51% of the club?

As £4.5m of debt has been written off (presumably by Sir Tom Farmer) in return for shares additional to those already existing the amount seems remarkably small. Could the £2.5m refer to the face value of shares which trade at a greater price than the face value?

I think so. The statement refers to 'new shares up to the value of £2.5m'. That could be taken as the nominal value, but they might be issued at a premium. There are currently 60m shares of 2p nominal value in issue - that's £1.2m - and there will be further shares issued against the £4.5m debt so the potential 'public' issue would have to match those numbers to give a 50% holding. It seems to me there will be a share premium in there but the maximum nominal value would be £2.5m.

[BSEJVT]

Yeah, no need to reply. I'd already speculated on the position you'd take.

I also thought to myself at some point you'd call BuyHibs "stupid".

For me if none of various groups had applied pressure then the position would not have changed.

Do you really think that they would have gone down this road to save themselves some minor aggro.

My guess is they are walking way from somewhere north of £10m probably closer to £15m.

Don't you think just once, fleetingly you could give them some credit?

Still if it helps you sleep or get your jollies, think happy thoughts about how Buy Hibs or the other myriad pressure groups, none of whom had a shred of credibility, forced this action, whilst the rest of us are pissing our pants at your naivety.

[Blaster]

Has there been any comment from buyhibs?

[The Falcon]

Has there been any comment from buyhibs?


Some folk on twitter saying this wouldnt have happened without the Hands on Hibs (are they not the same as Buy Hibs?) so they appear to be taking the credit.

[ballengeich]

I think so. The statement refers to 'new shares up to the value of £2.5m'. That could be taken as the nominal value, but they might be issued at a premium. There are currently 60m shares of 2p nominal value in issue - that's £1.2m - and there will be further shares issued against the £4.5m debt so the potential 'public' issue would have to match those numbers to give a 50% holding. It seems to me there will be a share premium in there but the maximum nominal value would be £2.5m.

Thanks. It looks like the £4.5m is buying shares with a face value of around £1.29m.

[crash]

A large number of fans are already shareholders, so surely they must already constitute a certain percentage of shares, meaning the actual number of shares required to gain control would be less than stated?

[Kato]

Do you really think that they would have gone down this road to save themselves some minor aggro.

My guess is they are walking way from somewhere north of £10m probably closer to £15m.

Don't you think just once, fleetingly you could give them some credit?

Still if it helps you sleep or get your jollies, think happy thoughts about how Buy Hibs or the other myriad pressure groups, none of whom had a shred of credibility, forced this action, whilst the rest of us are pissing our pants at your naivety.

Never really criticised STF or for that matter RP, although I think the latter outstayed his welcome by some 4 years or so and should have left after the Calderwood fiasco.

Have always given STF credit for what he has done for Hibs although, like most people have been driven to distraction at his lack of leadership over the years.

...and no, I doubt very much the shape of what is happening would have come about without some sort of pressure on them.

Whether the "myriad pressure groups" have credibility or not isn't really what I'm bothered about - I'm bothered about Hibs, bottom line. I never supported any of them and only questioned the outright hostility against them as groups and as individuals when they were being labelled with all sorts of abuse on here. I'll get my jollies watching Hibs improve on the park, nothing more, nothing less and you're reply speaks volumes about how divisive the last few years of RP's tenure has been.

Better change your pants, nasty habit.

[grunt]

Has there been any comment from buyhibs?Nothing yet from BuyHibs but a positive and supportive FaceBook post from the HoH guy:


Brothers and Sisters of EDINBURGH
be you Green or Maroon....................
The News coming out of Easter Road
today sounds very good. Obviously
the nuts and bolts of it will need to be ...
looked at.....but I have developed a
growing confidence in Ms Dempster, Mr Petrie and Sir Tom Farmer with regards to the New Future of Hibernian
As a representative of Hands On Hibs
I was told that the Board and STF would be doing the right thing and to give space to do so. The official announcements today take a HUGE step in this direction. I urge all fans of Hibernian to get involved, look at the clubs proposal(s) when released in full and arm yourself with all the facts.
Myself and 'Hands on Hibs' campaigned
for assurances that EASTER ROAD
stadium and the football club would remain together and that ultimately Hibernian Football club would pass into community ownership. Not only has the board declared this today but also that East mains training facility is to be part of the proposal ..........FANTASTIC.
Edinburgh needs two strong football
teams.....Hearts are playing real well,
and seem to be on a healthy financial
path now.
Hibs are a sleeping GIANT,
I'm not going into 'The Past'....
we are where we are!!
I want to deal with the FUTURE.
Edinburgh Football clubs back at the
heart of our communities, creating and providing opportunities for OUR
Edinburgh kids. Continuing our family
traditions, passing them to the next generations.
I stand ready to support the Hibernian
Board if it does what it says on the tin!
Bradley 'son of Edinburgh'

[emerald green]

Agreed, except that it's not really a target. Every share that's sold represents a bonus to the club.

:agree: And that is why it's so very important to get this point across crystal clear to the club's fanbase generally, and not just a few folk that are "in the know" and perhaps better understand what is being proposed.

This proposal all sounds very positive, and surely can only be looked upon as very good news for the club and its supporters. I would certainly be prepared to buy shares. Hopefully buying shares can be made affordable for as many people as possible.

[Andy74]

:agree: And that is why it's so very important to get this point across crystal clear to the club's fanbase generally, and not just a few folk that are "in the know" and perhaps better understand what is being proposed.

This proposal all sounds very positive, and surely can only be looked upon as very good news for the club and its supporters. I would certainly be prepared to buy shares. Hopefully buying shares can be made affordable for as many people as possible.

It's a good solution. It's saying if you really want to buy a share of the club then you can do it direct and be a shareholder.

If you want fans to own the club then over 50 per cent will be made available.

The bonus is the current holders are allowing dilution and any money raised goes to the club, not wasted in paying the current owners.

[CropleyWasGod]

A large number of fans are already shareholders, so surely they must already constitute a certain percentage of shares, meaning the actual number of shares required to gain control would be less than stated?
Fans own about 2% currently

[Peevemor]

I've just seen this news and I'm delighted. It looks to me like the bank has taken a haircut as will the holding company. The share issue is indirectly another holding company cash injection into the club. Good work from everyone concerned.

[jdships]

Or it could be the pressure exerted by BuyHibs forced STF into action.

Although I know you will never, ever admit that that might be the case.

IMHO Andy is correct !!
Think you will find if you care to look back over the past few years that STF has had something similar to this in mind for long enough ,
BuyHibs et al ]perhaps [/B] helped to speed it up but give some credit to STF - he is a very astute business man a fact I know to be true having " dealt" with him since he and his father started their tyre business many years ago

[jdships]

It's a good solution. It's saying if you really want to buy a share of the club then you can do it direct and be a shareholder.

If you want fans to own the club then over 50 per cent will be made available.

The bonus is the current holders are allowing dilution and any money raised goes to the club, not wasted in paying the current owners.

:agree::thumbsup:

[Andy74]

I've just seen this news and I'm delighted. It looks to me like the bank has taken a haircut as will the holding company. The share issue is indirectly another holding company cash injection into the club. Good work from everyone concerned.

It doesn't look that way at all re the bank.

The holding company are converting £4.5 m into shares and then there is £5 m left in the new loan they are making to the club.

That's £9.5 m in total which they must have paid over.

That £4.5 m is basically a write off by the holding company not the bank.

[Septimus]

A large number of fans are already shareholders, so surely they must already constitute a certain percentage of shares, meaning the actual number of shares required to gain control would be less than stated?

Some years ago I bought 1,000 Pounds worth of shares in Hibs. This was at the time of the Gray fiasco. I wonder if I am a shareholder. My understanding was that the club went bust and all that money was lost.

[Brightside]

I know i shouldn't be but I'm stunned that some of the "groups" are trying to claim some credit for this. :confused:

[Peevemor]

It doesn't look that way at all re the bank.

The holding company are converting £4.5 m into shares and then there is £5 m left in the new loan they are making to the club.

That's £9.5 m in total which they must have paid over.

That £4.5 m is basically a write off by the holding company not the bank.

I suspect the amount due to the bank was renegotiated / discounted in return for immediate repayment.

[Peevemor]

Anyway, the bottom line is that Hibs net worth will be around £20m, and we're being offered the chance to buy 51% of that for £2.5m. Take a bow STF.

[Andy74]

I know i shouldn't be but I'm stunned that some of the "groups" are trying to claim some credit for this. :confused:

I have to ask for your patience and for your support for the team both on and off the pitch,’ Petrie told fans.

‘We have to keep the focus of our attention on the team and on the sporting result we need.

'As we move through the summer and into the start of next season the wind of change will blow through the club to enrich and reinvigorate it for the benefit of every Hibernian supporter.’

He added: ‘Day-to-day responsibility for running of the club will pass to Leeann - a change which has been universally welcomed by Hibernian supporters.

‘There are other changes in the pipeline too which will see further radical change at your club both in the way that it organises itself and in the way in which it engages with the Hibernian family and the wider community. Leeann will need your support to implement change.’

[emerald green]

It's a good solution. It's saying if you really want to buy a share of the club then you can do it direct and be a shareholder.

If you want fans to own the club then over 50 per cent will be made available.

The bonus is the current holders are allowing dilution and any money raised goes to the club, not wasted in paying the current owners.

:agree: The bit in bold is the part I like in particular.

Rod Petrie is quoted as saying "supporters will have the opportunity of contributing directly to their club. The more supporters contribute then the more of the club they will own. And by owning the club they will also own Easter Road stadium and the East Mains training centre." That's great news.

Leeann Dempster is also quoted as saying "we now need the supporters to rally behind the plan and take the club forward on a united footing." Totally agree.

[Andy74]

I suspect the amount due to the bank was renegotiated / discounted in return for immediate repayment.

I suspect not by much if anything. £9.5 m is the top end of what most thought our debt was.

[Dashing Bob S]

This is all good news. The early fan consultation seems more than just a paper exercise, and to my mind, this initiative has Dempster's stamp all over it. I'm also happy to give Farmer and Petrie (yes, I said it) great credit, and also the various fans groups and initiatives, whatever you think about them, who cared enough to make some noise to keep the board's focus on this. I think it's time to acknowledge that everybody played their part and dispense with petty sniping at each other. It was fun for a while but feels lame and passe when we're finally visibly moving forward both on and off the park for the first time in a decade.

All Hibs fans who have stuck by the club, not just Dempster, Farmer, Petrie, and the supporters initiatives, be they 'provocative' or 'dignified', should be patting themselves on the back right now. Our debt is effectively gone, now we have opportunity, if we so wish, to invest in a club which looks to have a bright future.

[CropleyWasGod]

Some years ago I bought 1,000 Pounds worth of shares in Hibs. This was at the time of the Gray fiasco. I wonder if I am a shareholder. My understanding was that the club went bust and all that money was lost.
The club didn't go "bust".

If you were a shareholder (in Forth whatever it was) at that time, STF gave you the opportunity to take shares (for nothing) in the company that owned and still owns the club. Can't remember if it was automatic or whether one had to apply.

If you are in doubt, you should contact the Club Secretary.

[Mikey]

Some years ago I bought 1,000 Pounds worth of shares in Hibs. This was at the time of the Gray fiasco. I wonder if I am a shareholder. My understanding was that the club went bust and all that money was lost.

You certainly should be. Ami Frost should be able to tell you, or at least pass you on to someone who can.

afrost@hibernianfc.co.uk

[RyeSloan]

It's a good solution. It's saying if you really want to buy a share of the club then you can do it direct and be a shareholder. If you want fans to own the club then over 50 per cent will be made available. The bonus is the current holders are allowing dilution and any money raised goes to the club, not wasted in paying the current owners.

Which is the way it should be and exactly the flaw that was immediately obvious in the BH route where all money would have gone to existing shareholders rather than to the club.

Yet again STF has shown that he will support the club when it is needed most and has its best interests at heart...some will never accept that but that's life I suppose.

Will be interesting to see if we ever find out how much (if any) a hit the bank took and how much STF has put up of the £4.5m reduction. In the end though it matters not and we should all be thankful that we have such an astute owner.

[Andy74]

Which is the way it should be and exactly the flaw that was immediately obvious in the BH route where all money would have gone to existing shareholders rather than to the club.

Yet again STF has shown that he will support the club when it is needed most and has its best interests at heart...some will never accept that but that's life I suppose.

Will be interesting to see if we ever find out how much (if any) a hit the bank took and how much STF has put up of the £4.5m reduction. In the end though it matters not and we should all be thankful that we have such an astute owner.

I think given there is a £4.5 m share exchange and £5 m remaining you can assume that was the total the holding company were in it for.

Did we have more than £9.5 m bank debt?

[jdships]

I suspect the amount due to the bank was renegotiated / discounted in return for immediate repayment.

sounds good economic practice !!

[h185forever]

The holding company appear to have increased it's shareholding by converting £4.5m of loans into new ordinary shares.

How can a further £2.5m of shares to fans allow the fans to own 51% of the club ?

This doesn't make sense to me given the shares already held by the holding company before today.....and then adding £4.5m worth today ......and they don't intend to reduce their holding.

Can anyone help me understand please

it sounds like we halved the debt by giving HFC more shares.....and they mortgage the other £5m to the club ????????

[Ozyhibby]

Some key things for me:

The bank just dudnt write off debt after all. They got paid.

No third party has any sort of security on the assets.

Everything is still to be owned by the club.

The purchase of shares would be direct by the looks of things so you get something out of it.

The money goes to the club and not the owner so I can see some benefit in paying towards it even though I'm not fussed in owning a bit of the club.

It appears Sir Tom has handed over a decent chunk of cash to reduce the overall debt.

Illustrates even more the stupid timing and approach by BuyHibs. Presume they will stand down now.

Having a go at fellow Hibs fans on what appears to be a good news day? Classy.

[PapillonVert]

The debt has been halved. That means we're having to find about half of the money we previously did to pay those loans.

The money saved is available to the club for other things.

Like paying Terry "On-gardening-leave-and-cannae-be-arsed-finding-another-job" Butcher's unearned and undeserved wages. :rolleyes:

[BSEJVT]

Having a go at fellow Hibs fans on what appears to be a good news day? Classy.

It is a good news day but there are those too churlish to acknowledge that those that enabled the delivery of the good news did so voluntarily and willingly and with nothing other than the good of the club at heart.

That their motivations for doing so are still being questioned and that all the assertions made about them in the past haven't yet been rescinded or any apologies offered for them sickens me.

[Andy74]

Having a go at fellow Hibs fans on what appears to be a good news day? Classy.

It's quite relevant today to mention it.

They were daft to launch in the middle of ongoing work by the club and when fan consultation was going on and then spreading fear about asset stripping. Not talking to the board was the most ridiculous thing they did though.

If their approach had been a bit more reasonable perhaps I would have given them some credit for being well meaning fans.

All their give not take stuff looks quite out of order now does it not? Did at the time too to most of us.

[CropleyWasGod]

Like paying Terry "On-gardening-leave-and-cannae-be-arsed-finding-another-job" Butcher's unearned and undeserved wages. :rolleyes:

I was vague on purpose :greengrin

Seriously, though, it could be to take up the slack on things like that, or to cover losses in the bad times, or even the playing budget......:cb

Can't see any bad side to that bit at all.

[Ozyhibby]

It's quite relevant today to mention it.

They were daft to launch in the middle of ongoing work by the club and when fan consultation was going on and then spreading fear about asset stripping. Not talking to the board was the most ridiculous thing they did though.

If their approach had been a bit more reasonable perhaps I would have given them some credit for being well meaning fans.

All their give not take stuff looks quite out of order now does it not? Did at the time too to most of us.

Maybe without all the pressure being applied during the summer and since by Forever Hibernian and BuyHibs the club may have just carried on as they have always done. Maybe we should be thanking them for waking the club up?

[Brightside]

Having a go at fellow Hibs fans on what appears to be a good news day? Classy.

The campaign did nothing but harm. They should admit that - apologise for the slurs made - then walk away. "asset stripping'?

[Brightside]

Maybe without all the pressure being applied during the summer and since by Forever Hibernian and BuyHibs the club may have just carried on as they have always done. Maybe we should be thanking them for waking the club up?

Total and utter nonsense.

[Ozyhibby]

Total and utter nonsense.

We'll never know. :-)

[greenlex]

Maybe without all the pressure being applied during the summer and since by Forever Hibernian and BuyHibs the club may have just carried on as they have always done. Maybe we should be thanking them for waking the club up?
Maybe we should just forget the nonsense they were saying and all unite behind Hibernian fc.

[Ozyhibby]

The campaign did nothing but harm. They should admit that - apologise for the slurs made - then walk away. "asset stripping'?

The asset stripping nonsense was the reason I stopped defending them on here.

[Andy74]

Maybe without all the pressure being applied during the summer and since by Forever Hibernian and BuyHibs the club may have just carried on as they have always done. Maybe we should be thanking them for waking the club up?

Did you see the quote I posted earlier from Petrie which came from before we were relegated? Clearly shows this type of change was being looked at for some time. These groups have done very little to help and at times have been quite divisive when that's the last thing we needed.

Won't be getting any thanks from me for their approach.

Did I miss your thanks for those that actually look like they have done something positive in this announcement?

[Kaff]

Having a go at fellow Hibs fans on what appears to be a good news day? Classy.

No difference to having a go at fellow fans when times are hard, Andy and Peevemor have held a pretty steady line throughout and have received much name calling. They'll be delighted with this news, others will feel a bit embarrassed and claim it was their slander that made the difference. Aye right!

[Islington Hibs]

While the devil is in the detail this looks wholly positive. The price looks very fair £2.5m for 51%, funds to the club not the shareholders can only be described as an extremely generous gesture from STF and no bank debt. I also think having STF as a 49% holder is also excellent as to run a club of our size is nigh on impossible without the support of a rich benefactor. A good week all-round.

It is going to be pretty difficult to raise the target in my view though as, unlike Hearts, our very existence is not threatened. This is a discretionary investment albeit to a very good cause! I hope we do it but think it will take time and probably monthly payment schemes involving fairly small sums over time.

[Ozyhibby]

Did you see the quote I posted earlier from Petrie which came from before we were relegated? Clearly shows this type of change was being looked at for some time. These groups have done very little to help and at times have been quite divisive when that's the last thing we needed.

Won't be getting any thanks from me for their approach.

Did I miss your thanks for those that actually look like they have done something positive in this announcement?

I'm just catching up just now, been out all day.
This looks like a good plan from what I can see and will have my full backing, provided the details are to my liking but I'm willing to wait for that because I don't expect them to have all that on the day of the announcement. ;-)
I'll be thanking Rod Petrie for his service on the day he walks out of Easter road for good and not a moment before (although he is welcome back as a supporter, I'm not bitter).
My thanks right now go to Leeann Dempster and STF for making this happen and listening to the fans. In STF's case, at last.
Some of the things that have happened since the summer have been quite divisive but the harm caused by that is minuscule compared with the damage Rod Petrie inflicted on the club.

[Ozyhibby]

No difference to having a go at fellow fans when times are hard, Andy and Peevemor have held a pretty steady line throughout and have received much name calling. They'll be delighted with this news, others will feel a bit embarrassed and claim it was their slander that made the difference. Aye right!

I can't remember ever calling either any names and I'm delighted myself with the news. I don't feel embarrassed and have never slandered anyone.

[Lago]

No difference to having a go at fellow fans when times are hard, Andy and Peevemor have held a pretty steady line throughout and have received much name calling. They'll be delighted with this news, others will feel a bit embarrassed and claim it was their slander that made the difference. Aye right!
I completely agree with you.

[CropleyWasGod]

Not sure if this was answered earlier.

Is Pat Stanton no longer with BH?

[marinello59]

Maybe we should just forget the nonsense they were saying and all unite behind Hibernian fc.

:top marks

[Caversham Green]

The holding company appear to have increased it's shareholding by converting £4.5m of loans into new ordinary shares.

How can a further £2.5m of shares to fans allow the fans to own 51% of the club ?

This doesn't make sense to me given the shares already held by the holding company before today.....and then adding £4.5m worth today ......and they don't intend to reduce their holding.

Can anyone help me understand please

it sounds like we halved the debt by giving HFC more shares.....and they mortgage the other £5m to the club ????????

As I see it there are several different and independent steps in the process:

Step 1: HFC Holdings lend the club as much money as it needs to pay off the bank loan.
Step 2: HFC takes sufficient new shares in the club, at a price determined between the two parties, to halve the full amount owed by the club to HFC - i.e. the current amount due plus the new loan to pay off the bank.
Step 3: The club offers new shares to the fans, at a price that is yet to be determined, sufficient to equal (+1%) the number of shares held by HFC.

The price will be 2p per share plus a premium, but how the £2.5m is made up is yet to be determined, but the bottom line is that the club now owes £5m to HFC Holdings rather than £6.3m to the bank plus (presumably) £3.7m to HFC, and the fans have a choice whether or not they want to buy in to the ownership of the club. If they do buy in the club's financial position improves to the same degree.

[blackpoolhibs]

It's quite relevant today to mention it.

They were daft to launch in the middle of ongoing work by the club and when fan consultation was going on and then spreading fear about asset stripping. Not talking to the board was the most ridiculous thing they did though.

If their approach had been a bit more reasonable perhaps I would have given them some credit for being well meaning fans.

All their give not take stuff looks quite out of order now does it not? Did at the time too to most of us.

:agree: How many of their baseless accusations have come to fruition today?

[blackpoolhibs]

Maybe without all the pressure being applied during the summer and since by Forever Hibernian and BuyHibs the club may have just carried on as they have always done. Maybe we should be thanking them for waking the club up?

How did making up lies and talking the biggest load of crap put pressure on the club? :confused:

[Jim Herriot]

The price looks very fair £2.5m for 51%, funds to the club not the shareholders can only be described as an extremely generous gesture from STF and no bank debt.

Tom Farmer deserves a knighthood for this.
Oh, wait...

[grunt]

Has there been any comment from buyhibs?From Twitter:

BuyHibs are delighted and extremely encouraged by the announcement from the Owners of Hibs as it contains many key principle BH proposed.

confirmation Easter Road and East Mains will remain assets of the Club will be welcomed by Fans as it secures the future for generations

Recognition that the "German model " has the potential to ensure the future security and stability at the Club by encouraging Fan ownership

the announcement also provides an outline by which Sir Tom Farmer can leave a positive lasting legacy.

It also answers the question posed by BuyHibs as to the value placed on the Club and its assets (£10m)

This allows for fresh investment into the Club which again will be welcomed by Fans as the Club pushes to retain Premier League status.

BuyHibs await in anticipation of the release of the Club accounts

to fully understand the detail behind the proposal - in particular the term & interest rate agreed for the new consolidated £5m mortgage

[lapsedhibee]

Tom Farmer deserves a knighthood for this.

The very least we should do is get his name tattooed on our backs. :agree:

[greenginger]

Not sure if this was answered earlier.

Is Pat Stanton no longer with BH?


Surely BuyHibs should be at the head of the queue with their cash and backers primed and ready to do what is on their label .

And Buy Hibs, or at least as big a percentage of the Club as their funds allow.

Was that not what they were all about , or did I misunderstand them. :confused:

Oops ! posted that before I read the BuyHibs twitter feed.

[Blaster]

From Twitter:

BuyHibs are delighted and extremely encouraged by the announcement from the Owners of Hibs as it contains many key principle BH proposed.

confirmation Easter Road and East Mains will remain assets of the Club will be welcomed by Fans as it secures the future for generations

Recognition that the "German model " has the potential to ensure the future security and stability at the Club by encouraging Fan ownership

the announcement also provides an outline by which Sir Tom Farmer can leave a positive lasting legacy.

It also answers the question posed by BuyHibs as to the value placed on the Club and its assets (£10m)

This allows for fresh investment into the Club which again will be welcomed by Fans as the Club pushes to retain Premier League status.

BuyHibs await in anticipation of the release of the Club accounts

to fully understand the detail behind the proposal - in particular the term & interest rate agreed for the new consolidated £5m mortgage

Thanks mate

[Andy74]

From Twitter:

BuyHibs are delighted and extremely encouraged by the announcement from the Owners of Hibs as it contains many key principle BH proposed.

confirmation Easter Road and East Mains will remain assets of the Club will be welcomed by Fans as it secures the future for generations

Recognition that the "German model " has the potential to ensure the future security and stability at the Club by encouraging Fan ownership

the announcement also provides an outline by which Sir Tom Farmer can leave a positive lasting legacy.

It also answers the question posed by BuyHibs as to the value placed on the Club and its assets (£10m)

This allows for fresh investment into the Club which again will be welcomed by Fans as the Club pushes to retain Premier League status.

It's nothing like the BH model and a number of things they had suggested as problems with the current owner have been proved wrong.

Did they say if they were now disbanding?

[blackpoolhibs]

The very least we should do is get his name tattooed on our backs. :agree:

:faf:

[grunt]

Did they say if they were now disbanding?Please note that I added two further tweets after you quoted my post.

[Ozyhibby]

How did making up lies and talking the biggest load of crap put pressure on the club? :confused:

I'm not defending the conduct of BuyHibs but their existence was a symptom of the shambolic way the club has been run.
It's probably a coincidence the club have announced a similar scheme not long after or maybe they felt they had to respond. We'll never know.

[brog]

It doesn't look that way at all re the bank.

The holding company are converting £4.5 m into shares and then there is £5 m left in the new loan they are making to the club.

That's £9.5 m in total which they must have paid over.

I'm not quite sure how you reach that conclusion Andy, ie £9.5m must have been paid over. As CWG said there's no evidence to support the contention that either the full loan was repaid or that a discount was received. However in the current financial environment early repayments almost always result in a discount & I really can't see STF going this route otherwise. One thing I haven't seen mentioned is the timing of repayments. We were due to pay £1.6m in 2018 & £2.5m in 2020. Although there are no details re any repayment schedule I think we can safely assume it won't be any time soon. I do agree with you that this is good news all round. I'm already a shareholder but hopefully will be in for more.

[Andy74]

I'm not defending the conduct of BuyHibs but their existence was a symptom of the shambolic way the club has been run.
It's probably a coincidence the club have announced a similar scheme not long after or maybe they felt they had to respond. We'll never know.

We will know.

Check out what was said when Petrie promised significant change back in May.

We then had fan consultations and a survey.

You think the launch of BH well after those things started was what pushed things?

[Andy74]

I'm not quite sure how you reach that conclusion Andy, ie £9.5m must have been paid over. As CWG said there's no evidence to support the contention that either the full loan was repaid or that a discount was received. However in the current financial environment early repayments almost always result in a discount & I really can't see STF going this route otherwise. One thing I haven't seen mentioned is the timing of repayments. We were due to pay £1.6m in 2018 & £2.5m in 2020. Although there are no details re any repayment schedule I think we can safely assume it won't be any time soon. I do agree with you that this is good news all round. I'm already a shareholder but hopefully will be in for more.

I'm adding 5m which is being consolidated to now be paid to the holding company to 4.5m which they are swapping for shares.

That's 9.5m which is currently due. That's high compared to recent guesses of our total debt. It's all being accounted for in the arrangements with the holding company who are basically writing off 4.5m then being paid 5m at some stage.

The 9.5 m total doesn't suggest a big reduction in what the bank were due.