Cuba and US to Normalise Relationships

[Colr]

About time in some respects but a dreadful prospect for British cigar smokers as all the decent stuff will now ed up going to the US

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-30516740

[CropleyWasGod]

I'm in two minds about this.

Having been in Cuba, and other Central American and Caribbean countries like Costa Rica and Jamaica, I know which society I prefer. Of course, I don't live there, and wouldn't know what life was really like.

I am concerned that the unique culture of Cuba will be swept away by US influence, and that it will become another satellite, like Costa Rica... where everything is priced in US Dollars, and hell mend you if you want to use CR currency.

There is so much that is wrong with Cuban society, but so much that is right...... its health and education systems, for example. It would be a shame to lose those socialist ideals in what would likely become a US playground.

A Cuban woman once told me " we have the sun, sugar, rum, cigars and salsa. What else would we want?"

[PeeJay]

I'm in two minds about this.

Having been in Cuba, and other Central American and Caribbean countries like Costa Rica and Jamaica, I know which society I prefer. Of course, I don't live there, and wouldn't know what life was really like.

I am concerned that the unique culture of Cuba will be swept away by US influence, and that it will become another satellite, like Costa Rica... where everything is priced in US Dollars, and hell mend you if you want to use CR currency.

There is so much that is wrong with Cuban society, but so much that is right...... its health and education systems, for example. It would be a shame to lose those socialist ideals in what would likely become a US playground.

A Cuban woman once told me " we have the sun, sugar, rum, cigars and salsa. What else would we want?"

Knew a few people who have been to Cuba and loved it, for similar reasons, but my take on it is: give the Cuban people the choice and sit back and watch, personally I don't hold out much hope for the "socialist ideals" ....

[Beefster]

I never get why folk get all romantic about Cuba.

http://m.hrw.org/world-report/2014/country-chapters/cuba

Edit: sorry for the mobile link.

[CropleyWasGod]

Knew a few people who have been to Cuba and loved it, for similar reasons, but my take on it is: give the Cuban people the choice and sit back and watch, personally I don't hold out much hope for the "socialist ideals" ....

In recent years, the Cuban economy has been moving slowly towards a market-based economy. The allowing of self employment (when I was there, NO-ONE got that concept. :greengrin), the expansion of the tourist industry, and the relaxation of the apartheid-style laws that restricted contact between Cubans and others. All of that is positive.

However, I admired the fact that they were doing it at their own pace. That was in contrast to the Eastern Bloc countries, where things changed almost overnight, a few people became mega-rich very quickly, and life barely changed for most people.

I would hope that that process continues, but in a controlled and sustainable way. I doubt it will, though.

[Pretty Boy]

Is the Cuban healthcare system all it's cracked up to be? I know there's a few shiny, show hospitals in Havana but there's a lot of blogs and othe online media that seem to show a different side:

http://www.captainsquartersblog.com/mt/archives/004070.php

http://www.worldaffairsjournal.org/article/cuba’s-health-care-diplomacy-business-humanitarianism

http://www.therealcuba.com/Page10.htm

http://www.latinamericanstudies.org/cuba/health-myth.htm

I'm aware there's a clear political agenda in each of those articles but there's an equal agenda in the official Cuban line of how wonderful their healthcare system is.

[hibsbollah]

Leaving the politics aside, because its boring. Im sure regular posters know what each of us are going to say on this subject.

I was in Cuba ten years ago and absolutely loved the country. Part of the appeal as a traveller was its difference from the formulaic destination: no coke, no McDonald's, no advertising of any kind except public health announcements and billboards everywhere. State run restaurants were mixed in quality but even ten years ago when the Beard ran things you could find some great family run places tolerated by the Government.

I'd get booking if you still want to see the real Cuba; in eighteen months it might look a lot like the Dominican Republic :boo hoo:

[Stranraer]

I agree it's about time, glad to hear this announcement today :aok:

[hibsbollah]

There will be 'an immediate relaxing of commercial restrictions' according to the White House.

So its the end. Here's hoping the Malecon and Trinidad and all those old Spanish colonial towns dont get swamped by Taco Bell and casinos.

[wpj]

Having been to Cuba I am so glad I saw it as it was/is. I did say to mrs PJ this will be very different if we ever come back, didn't think it would be this soon though, thought it would be when Fidal Castro died. For those delighted at the change maybe talk to Cubans who live there and love their life. Not everyone wants a mass consumer lifestyle that makes us so "happy" and trouble free here (roll eyes smilie not available on phone). Another sunny holiday destination with all the American spring breakers is what the world really needs (reinsert rolling eyes smilie)

[hibsbollah]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2014/10/04/in-the-medical-response-to-ebola-cuba-is-punching-far-above-its-weight/
Is the Cuban healthcare system all it's cracked up to be? I know there's a few shiny, show hospitals in Havana but there's a lot of blogs and othe online media that seem to show a different side:

http://www.captainsquartersblog.com/mt/archives/004070.php

http://www.worldaffairsjournal.org/article/cuba’s-health-care-diplomacy-business-humanitarianism

http://www.therealcuba.com/Page10.htm

http://www.latinamericanstudies.org/cuba/health-myth.htm

I'm aware there's a clear political agenda in each of those articles but there's an equal agenda in the official Cuban line of how wonderful their healthcare system is.

Hard to find objectivity on this subject online, I agree. But its fairly well established that Cuba is very far advanced scientifically and its health care shames most other third world countries in the region and the world(and poor districts in the USA, come to that). UN sources are very clear and impartial. You just have to see how they are leading the world in the fight against Ebola.

[CropleyWasGod]

There will be 'an immediate relaxing of commercial restrictions' according to the White House.

So its the end. Here's hoping the Malecon and Trinidad and all those old Spanish colonial towns dont get swamped by Taco Bell and casinos.
Trinidad. ...utterly gorgeous.

The Malecon... I was there on a grey day. It felt like Kirkcaldy :)

Santiago de Cuba was my favourite. Salsa to die for. Women to sigh for.

[The_Exile]

As long as I can still get my Cohibas at a decent price, bloody hell.

[Onceinawhile]

I'm glad they're normalising it, because this sort of stuff seems like a waste of resources.

http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN0JQ01720141212?irpc=932

[(((Fergus)))]

I'm in two minds about this.

Having been in Cuba, and other Central American and Caribbean countries like Costa Rica and Jamaica, I know which society I prefer. Of course, I don't live there, and wouldn't know what life was really like.

I am concerned that the unique culture of Cuba will be swept away by US influence, and that it will become another satellite, like Costa Rica... where everything is priced in US Dollars, and hell mend you if you want to use CR currency.

There is so much that is wrong with Cuban society, but so much that is right...... its health and education systems, for example. It would be a shame to lose those socialist ideals in what would likely become a US playground.

A Cuban woman once told me " we have the sun, sugar, rum, cigars and salsa. What else would we want?"

Some would like the freedom to leave this paradise should they be so minded. What is it about socialist ideals that repeatedly necessitates the imprisonment - figuratively and literally - of those who would rather not enjoy these benefits?

[CropleyWasGod]

Some would like the freedom to leave this paradise should they be so minded. What is it about socialist ideals that repeatedly necessitates the imprisonment - figuratively and literally - of those who would rather not enjoy these benefits?

I wouldn't want to deny them that.

My point was that sometimes one is happy with what one has. That sometimes happens because one doesn't know what else is "out there". The internet and "advertising-land" have a lot to answer for in encouraging acquisitiveness and avarice. That, in itself, is a contributor to the likes of depression. There's a whole other thread on that, though. :greengrin

[CropleyWasGod]

Taking this further, there has been some criticism of the agreement.
One is that "this will benefit only Cuba"....from a Cuban expat.
It's also not certain that the trade embargo will be lifted.

[PeeJay]

I can partly understand people enjoying visits to Cuba. It's one thing however, to love Cuba when on holiday, all those cool cars, exotic bars, wonderful locations, the women/men or whatever ... I always wonder though how many of the people extolling Cuba's virtues, but not from Cuba themselves would like to actually live there? Does anybody really believe that the Cuban health system is one to be genuinely praised - seriously? A country that represses its citizens more than any other country in LA for showing any form of political dissent: why is that I wonder? Ask your average Cuban if they love their health system and relaxed way of life, free of western consumerism and capitalism, they will say yes, because to do otherwise is a crime ... what do statistics and opinions mean in Cuba? Personally I hope the sooner they get rid of Castro and all the enforced socialist nonsense the better ... this won't happen for a while though, unfortunately IMO, as Obomber can't push this through on his own and it seems the Republicans will do all they can to thwart any progress.

[CB_NO3]

I can partly understand people enjoying visits to Cuba. It's one thing however, to love Cuba when on holiday, all those cool cars, exotic bars, wonderful locations, the women/men or whatever ... I always wonder though how many of the people extolling Cuba's virtues, but not from Cuba themselves would like to actually live there? Does anybody really believe that the Cuban health system is one to be genuinely praised - seriously? A country that represses its citizens more than any other country in LA for showing any form of political dissent: why is that I wonder? Ask your average Cuban if they love their health system and relaxed way of life, free of western consumerism and capitalism, they will say yes, because to do otherwise is a crime ... what do statistics and opinions mean in Cuba? Personally I hope the sooner they get rid of Castro and all the enforced socialist nonsense the better ... this won't happen for a while though, unfortunately IMO, as Obomber can't push this through on his own and it seems the Republicans will do all they can to thwart any progress.
What about statistics from Yankland that suggest 40% of Americans will suffer some form of depression at some point in their life. Statistics in the UK say they have handed out 500k food parcels this year to people that can't afford food. All this in two rich G8 countries. Why? Money does not bring happiness in these countries. In fact it brings the complete opposite.

I just got back from Havana last night and from what I seen the Cubans are very happy folk, who love their country. Maybe its easy to love life in the Caribbean where the temperature hardly ever drops to less than 20 and you have lovely sandy beaches. I spoke to a lot who feel some change is needed, mainly the infrastructure of their crumbling buildings. Yes, they would like some more money or at least ways to make more but who wouldn't? They are happy that everyone earns roughly the same cash and the same amount of food vouchers from the government.

Am only 28 so I dont know what it was like in the 60s and 70s in the UK but I get the impression people valued life more, with enough money to get by. Now we can go on holiday 5 times a year, buy a new laptop when we want, a new smart phone when we want and it does not make us happier people. It makes us more greedy and miserable in the long run.

Plus anyone that can pi55 the yanks off gets a thumbs up from me:thumbsup: Mon the Cubans

[PeeJay]

What about statistics from Yankland that suggest 40% of Americans will suffer some form of depression at some point in their life. Statistics in the UK say they have handed out 500k food parcels this year to people that can't afford food. All this in two rich G8 countries. Why? Money does not bring happiness in these countries. In fact it brings the complete opposite.

I just got back from Havana last night and from what I seen the Cubans are very happy folk, who love their country. Maybe its easy to love life in the Caribbean where the temperature hardly ever drops to less than 20 and you have lovely sandy beaches. I spoke to a lot who feel some change is needed, mainly the infrastructure of their crumbling buildings. Yes, they would like some more money or at least ways to make more but who wouldn't? They are happy that everyone earns roughly the same cash and the same amount of food vouchers from the government.

Am only 28 so I dont know what it was like in the 60s and 70s in the UK but I get the impression people valued life more, with enough money to get by. Now we can go on holiday 5 times a year, buy a new laptop when we want, a new smart phone when we want and it does not make us happier people. It makes us more greedy and miserable in the long run.

Plus anyone that can pi55 the yanks off gets a thumbs up from me:thumbsup: Mon the Cubans

Yeah, but would you like to live there?
I don't live in the UK, so I'm not greedy or miserable (well unless we get beat) ... :greengrin

[Beefster]

Some opinions on this thread are a bit like an American tourist coming to Scotland for a week and saying "I'm not sure why anyone would want independence, they all seem happy enough". IMHO.

[Colr]

The government needs to safeguard supplies of Hoyo de Monterrey and Bolivars. We need a trade agreement.

[hibsbollah]

Trinidad. ...utterly gorgeous.

The Malecon... I was there on a grey day. It felt like Kirkcaldy :)

Santiago de Cuba was my favourite. Salsa to die for. Women to sigh for.

I didn't want to get into politics, but a lot of the comments on this thread critical of Cuba seem to focus on the Cuban people's right to choose. Problem is, there is no choice if you open everything up to the power of the market without restrictions. The world becomes just one bland high street after another.

Oh, and Crops...
Trinidad is possibly my favourite town in the whole world.

Malecon like Kirkaldy? Had you been at the the rum?:greengrin

I never made it down South but I heard Santiago de Cuba and the mountains around there were amazing. Pinar del Rio in the North was very unspoilt and good to get lost in.