#allisbarry at it again - Yams accounts

[Hexham Hibee]

EEN report by Bando "The accounts show more than £27 million of debt was written off as a result of the CVA. It was primarily bank debt and debt to companies owned and controlled by Romanov."

Not a mention of the £millions the Yams owed HMRC (ie you and me) that was also written off. Selective amnesia, re-writing history? Blame Johnny foreigner, it was nothing to do with us.

[Radium]

EEN report by Bando "The accounts show more than £27 million of debt was written off as a result of the CVA. It was primarily bank debt and debt to companies owned and controlled by Romanov."

Not a mention of the £millions the Yams owed HMRC (ie you and me) that was also written off. Selective amnesia, re-writing history? Blame Johnny foreigner, it was nothing to do with us.

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/spfl-lower-divisions/hearts-list-of-creditors-in-full-1-3024802

[greenginger]

EEN report by Bando "The accounts show more than £27 million of debt was written off as a result of the CVA. It was primarily bank debt and debt to companies owned and controlled by Romanov."

Not a mention of the £millions the Yams owed HMRC (ie you and me) that was also written off. Selective amnesia, re-writing history? Blame Johnny foreigner, it was nothing to do with us.


And the £ 100,000 due to our Council who are making people redundant.

[Billy Whizz]

And the £ 100,000 due to our Council who are making people redundant.

And the £145,000 not paid to Heriot Watt

[Aldo]

I've been trying to find it but can't at moment but I'm sure someone on here had a breakdown of all the debt??

Hopefully I can find it and if I do I will tweet that twat Banderson and see what he has to say bout it all (again)

[Mikey]

I've been trying to find it but can't at moment but I'm sure someone on here had a breakdown of all the debt??

Hopefully I can find it and if I do I will tweet that twat Banderson and see what he has to say bout it all (again)

Here ye go.......

13860

[CropleyWasGod]

Haven't seen the accounts, so I'm not going to rely on Bazza's ramblings.

However, this stuck out :-

"In total, Hearts’ net debt currently sits at £3,166,000, which is owed to Budge’s BIDCO 1874 and Foundation of Hearts."

Debt-free, yeah? :greengrin

[Aldo]

Here ye go....... <img src="http://www.hibs.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=13860"/>

Cheers Mikey!!

[KdyHby]

Haven't seen the accounts, so I'm not going to rely on Bazza's ramblings.

However, this stuck out :-

"In total, Hearts’ net debt currently sits at £3,166,000, which is owed to Budge’s BIDCO 1874 and Foundation of Hearts."

Debt-free, yeah? :greengrin

They owe it to themselves.......

[CropleyWasGod]

They owe it to themselves.......

They owe it to themselves..... never to use that line again. :greengrin

[Bostonhibby]

EEN report by Bando "The accounts show more than £27 million of debt was written off as a result of the CVA. It was primarily bank debt and debt to companies owned and controlled by Romanov."

Not a mention of the £millions the Yams owed HMRC (ie you and me) that was also written off. Selective amnesia, re-writing history? Blame Johnny foreigner, it was nothing to do with us.

Couple of million to the taxman and NI that the rest of us pay,:confused: and I see the Lady Haig Poppy Factory and Macrae Battalion Trust on the creditor list - must be a story for a journo in there? - if only allisbarry wasn't just a "reporter" and not a very good one either.

[Aldo]

Couple of million to the taxman and NI that the rest of us pay,:confused: and I see the Lady Haig Poppy Factory and Macrae Battalion Trust on the creditor list - must be a story for a journo in there? - if only allisbarry wasn't just a "reporter" and not a very good one either.

BH it's in black and white and for all of us to see yet the yams will still deny they owed any money to charities and local businesses .

[Jack]

Haven't seen the accounts, so I'm not going to rely on Bazza's ramblings.

However, this stuck out :-

"In total, Hearts’ net debt currently sits at £3,166,000, which is owed to Budge’s BIDCO 1874 and Foundation of Hearts."

Debt-free, yeah? :greengrin

How much was she reported to pay for them from the administrator ... and not a penny more?

£500,000 extra if I'm not mistaken and that's only half a season in!

[CropleyWasGod]

How much was she reported to pay for them from the administrator ... and not a penny more?

£500,000 extra if I'm not mistaken and that's only half a season in!

The accounts are up to 30 June 2014, so this season's trading won't be included.

[bod]

And the £145,000 not paid to Heriot Watt

and the £1000 to scott Wilson wonder why he doesn't " makes sum noise " about it

[greenginger]

The accounts are up to 30 June 2014, so this season's trading won't be included.


Are they self -sufficient in the Yam meaning of the term ?

I know Budge said last week the would be running at a loss if it were not for FoH and their pledgers. But when could anything connected with finance coming from the PBS be taken as fact.

[KingFranck]

and the £1000 to scott Wilson wonder why he doesn't " makes sum noise " about it

Or the cash they owe Jimmy Sandison the club with no shame !

[Jack]

The accounts are up to 30 June 2014, so this season's trading won't be included.

Sounds like the extra could be football debt then, IIRC that was around the figure totted up for that.

[Bostonhibby]

BH it's in black and white and for all of us to see yet the yams will still deny they owed any money to charities and local businesses .

:agree: It's their own list published by their friends at BDO - the irony is they had to put it together and publish it as part of their salvation - nae class, nae conscience, delighted not to be one of them.

[CropleyWasGod]

Sounds like the extra could be football debt then, IIRC that was around the figure totted up for that.
I'm only guessing, but I'm thinking 2.5m to AB, 1m to FOH, and 500k football debt. Total 4m, less what cash they had, to equal what Bazza did call "net debt".

[Aldo]

:agree: It's their own list published by their friends at BDO - the irony is they had to put it together and publish it as part of their salvation - nae class, nae conscience, delighted not to be one of them.

They never had, don't have and never will have any of those things you've mentioned IMHO.

And yes I'm glad I'm not one of those Yam roasters.

[Bostonhibby]

They never had, don't have and never will have any of those things you've mentioned IMHO.

And yes I'm glad I'm not one of those Yam roasters.

Did I, or allisbarry forget to mention Big hearts got bumped for a five figure sum as well? if not, I have now.

[Aldo]

Did I, or allisbarry forget to mention Big hearts got bumped for a five figure sum as well? if not, I have now.

Nah it's in his report/story. Just over £34,000. Wow. Fleecing yur own BIG style.

It's all there tbf.

[The Falcon]

EEN report by Bando "The accounts show more than £27 million of debt was written off as a result of the CVA. It was primarily bank debt and debt to companies owned and controlled by Romanov."



And it included £34,048.43 to the Big Hearts Community trust.

But it was "primarily" the Bank or Romanov, so that's fine then Baz. All is well.

[EskbankHibby]

Lot of creditors under £1000 there including -

British Red Cross
Lady Haig's Poppy Factory
McCraes Battalion Trust
Meriden Hospital
NHS Lothian
NHS Fife
St Andrews First Aid

Scottish Ambulance Service and Scottish Police a bit more than £1000.

If I'm honest I'm a bit surprised that such a newly righteous club or group of fans like HMFC have chosen not to reimburse all of these organisations.

Of course I do wonder why any reasonable and decent organisation would owe ANY money to these types of creditors. Especially when paying enormous wages to footballers at the same time to try and gain a sporting advantage.

Lest they forget - breathtaking hypocrisy.

[HibbyAndy]

Always have been and always will be cheating barstewards !!

[Waxy]

Its Hearts payday tomorrow.Or is it?

[Bostonhibby]

Its Hearts payday tomorrow.Or is it?

It is now thanks to all those creditors who haven't been paid, the small creditors on the other hand, who knows................If the council had vigorously pursued their debts early who knows maybe a redundancy or two could have been deferred?

[Waxy]

It is now thanks to all those creditors who haven't been paid, the small creditors on the other hand, who knows................If the council had vigorously pursued their debts early who knows maybe a redundancy or two could have been deferred?Yes they got away with it, but what a rollercoaster of a thread that was.great laugh though it ended quite horrific.

[weonlywon6-2]

I noticed Ann budge saying that they need the fans money from direct debits or they would be making a loss,is that not worrying ????

[portycabbage]

And it included £34,048.43 to the Big Hearts Community trust.

But it was "primarily" the Bank or Romanov, so that's fine then Baz. All is well.

The money in romanov's bank and other companies didn't belong to him either - it was effectively money from ordinary people's bank accounts and pensions which was lost IIRC.

[bigwheel]

EEN report by Bando "The accounts show more than £27 million of debt was written off as a result of the CVA. It was primarily bank debt and debt to companies owned and controlled by Romanov."

Not a mention of the £millions the Yams owed HMRC (ie you and me) that was also written off. Selective amnesia, re-writing history? Blame Johnny foreigner, it was nothing to do with us.

And ignoring the fact that was money stolen from the Lithuanian people ...

[bigwheel]

The money in romanov's bank and other companies didn't belong to him either - it was effectively money from ordinary people's bank accounts and pensions which was lost IIRC.

Amen. Very important point

[CropleyWasGod]

I noticed Ann budge saying that they need the fans money from direct debits or they would be making a loss,is that not worrying ????
A tad.

But then, in theory their income in the top league should be higher than it is just now.

[NadeAteMyLunch!]

They are just utter filth

[weonlywon6-2]

A tad.

But then, in theory their income in the top league should be higher than it is just now.
yeah possibly but not a lot in it I would have thought

[Hibby Bairn]

Lot of creditors under £1000 there including -

British Red Cross
Lady Haig's Poppy Factory
McCraes Battalion Trust
Meriden Hospital
NHS Lothian
NHS Fife
St Andrews First Aid

Scottish Ambulance Service and Scottish Police a bit more than £1000.

If I'm honest I'm a bit surprised that such a newly righteous club or group of fans like HMFC have chosen not to reimburse all of these organisations.

Of course I do wonder why any reasonable and decent organisation would owe ANY money to these types of creditors. Especially when paying enormous wages to footballers at the same time to try and gain a sporting advantage.

Lest they forget - breathtaking hypocrisy.

I think they did repay the "smaller" creditors.

[EastCalderHibby]

They are just utter filth

absolutely the **** of the earth :jamboclow

[CropleyWasGod]

I think they did repay the "smaller" creditors.
Wouldn't be allowed to.

[EskbankHibby]

I think they did repay the "smaller" creditors.

Did they?

I had heard that one fan was embarrassed into stumping up the cash for McCraes or the poppy charity.

If they have reimbursed any of there enormous list of creditors I would expect a bit of a fanfare about it, it's the hearts way.

Like Budge pointing out they had settled all their footballing debt which is basically what they HAD to do.

Surprised we don't get monthly website updates regarding prompt payment of utility bills.

[EskbankHibby]

Wouldn't be allowed to.

Indeed CWG, is it not the case that the 'club' can't pay but a concerned group of self righteous fans could donate to these creditors?

I think I had read about a group of Rangers fans who set about paying any club creditors under £5k. I may have made that up though.

[CropleyWasGod]

Indeed CWG, is it not the case that the 'club' can't pay but a concerned group of self righteous fans could donate to these creditors?

I think I had read about a group of Rangers fans who set about paying any club creditors under £5k. I may have made that up though.
Yep, that's right.

Think we would have heard about it had it happened in Hearts case.[emoji6]

[Danderhall Hibs]

Farmer repaid the poppy debt, didn't he?

[Swedish hibee]

All they will ever be to me is a Rancid cheating vile club.

[Crazyhorse]

And ignoring the fact that was money stolen from the Lithuanian people ...

Lithuanians are not to be confused with human beings who suffer for Banderson and his ****bo pals.

[Pete]

Here ye go.......

13860

5-1 etc was worth it they say. Maybe the should ask the poor sods in that list if it was worth it.

To be fair they seemed to have learned their lesson and are cutting their cloth unlike Sevco. Managers on £750k and losses of £8m a year are utterly disgusting after a insolvency event.

[greenginger]

Yep, that's right.

Think we would have heard about it had it happened in Hearts case.[emoji6]

I think Bryan Jackson found them a way out of their embarrassment with the Big Hearts charity debt.

Big Hearts used a couple of rooms above the club shop so Jackson created a rent charge for that use equivilent to what HOMFC owed the charity. Result, debt wiped out.

The fact that HOMFC were leasing the property from our council, and not paying them the rent due is neither here nor there.

That's just the way Yams way of business.

[mca]

Farmer repaid the poppy debt, didn't he?



The hrts Poppy Debt was Paid by a hrts fan.. from what I read somewhere ?? :wink:

[Bostonhibby]

I think Bryan Jackson found them a way out of their embarrassment with the Big Hearts charity debt.

Big Hearts used a couple of rooms above the club shop so Jackson created a rent charge for that use equivilent to what HOMFC owed the charity. Result, debt wiped out.

The fact that HOMFC were leasing the property from our council, and not paying them the rent due is neither here nor there.

That's just the way Yams way of business.

ah, dodgy retrospective accounting...........and renting out something they hadn't paid for.

Still cannae get away from the fact they had to publish the list at the time they did - if they had a fiddle to cover the likes of this swindle up in place before hand there is no doubt they'd have done it and kept it off their list.

The list of shame.

[greenginger]

ah, dodgy retrospective accounting...........and renting out something they hadn't paid for.

Still cannae get away from the fact they had to publish the list at the time they did - if they had a fiddle to cover the likes of this swindle up in place before hand there is no doubt they'd have done it and kept it off their list.

The list of shame.


I think the Big Hearts debt was missing from the final creditors list published in January 2014. Can't find a copy of it to be 100% certain.

[weecounty hibby]

****ing ****my, lowdown, filth. No better than the lowlifes who break onto old folks houses or mug pensioners on pension day. Makes me so angry that people were stiffed to make a football club look bigger and more successful than they actually are. Also makes me angry that our press let them off the hook and actually now big them up.
As for their fans.....self righteous hard of thinking sheep who are mostly afraid to admit the truth to themselves
I ****ing hate them. And before someone says hate is too strong. NO ITS NOT, NOT WHEN ITS THEM!!!

[Bostonhibby]

I think the Big Hearts debt was missing from the final creditors list published in January 2014. Can't find a copy of it to be 100% certain.

You could be right, but I am very happy with the list they had to publish first.:brokenyam:

Annoys the hell out of my family yam who basically has no way around it.

[lapsedhibee]

The hrts Poppy Debt was Paid by a hrts fan.. from what I read somewhere ?? :wink:

Just a front. Farmer paid. :agree:

[EH6 Hibby]

Have the Share Certificates been sent out yet?

[Kaff]

I noticed Ann budge saying that they need the fans money from direct debits or they would be making a loss,is that not worrying ????

http://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?295686-Hibs-vs-Hearts-budget-2014-15

I started a thread kind of questioning this but moreso trying to start a debate on the fact their budget must be higher than ours.
Someone said on a thread they questioned Stubbs' effectiveness by stating we should be better as we had 7 players from last season in our starting XI whilst they had 7 new players, the alternative argument is that their larger budget has allowed them to change more of their flops who were poor enough to get relegated than we were able to do. Is this because they have a large number of pledgers and would they still have so many after a poor run of form? It's not a great model and they also state in the article i have highlighted that they have 'almost' cleared the football debt, we could do a lot of damage in the Ne'er Day game!

[Mikey09]

And whatever happened to the SFA investigation into David Southerns shenanigans. Lying to said SFA re the yams being "self sufficient." As well as the illegal share issue?

[matty_f]

Just a front. Farmer paid. :agree:

:agree: I thought this was already fairly well known.

[jacomo]

Its Hearts payday tomorrow.Or is it?

Good times.

[greenginger]

http://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?295686-Hibs-vs-Hearts-budget-2014-15

I started a thread kind of questioning this but moreso trying to start a debate on the fact their budget must be higher than ours.
Someone said on a thread they questioned Stubbs' effectiveness by stating we should be better as we had 7 players from last season in our starting XI whilst they had 7 new players, the alternative argument is that their larger budget has allowed them to change more of their flops who were poor enough to get relegated than we were able to do. Is this because they have a large number of pledgers and would they still have so many after a poor run of form? It's not a great model and they also state in the article i have highlighted that they have 'almost' cleared the football debt, we could do a lot of damage in the Ne'er Day game!


I count 10 new players signed by the Yams last summer.

[hibees 7062]

A tad.

But then, in theory their income in the top league should be higher than it is just now.

So will their spending

[HibbiesandtheBaddies]

EEN report by Bando "The accounts show more than £27 million of debt was written off as a result of the CVA. It was primarily bank debt and debt to companies owned and controlled by Romanov."

Not a mention of the £millions the Yams owed HMRC (ie you and me) that was also written off. Selective amnesia, re-writing history? Blame Johnny foreigner, it was nothing to do with us.

It was primarily bank debt and debt to companies owned and controlled by Romanov = poor destitute hard-working Lithuanian Aluminium miners cheated out of their pensions by Heart of Midlothian Football Club for a decade of cheap thrills.

What a loathsome lot. Seriously devoid of any sporting integrity and a stain on Scottish society.

[CropleyWasGod]

So will their spending
Will it?

I'm not so sure. If their income doesn't change much, I can't see AB sanctioning a lot of additional players.

[Ronniekirk]

Will it?

I'm not so sure. If their income doesn't change much, I can't see AB sanctioning a lot of additional players.

Given thier current position it wouldn't surprise me if they looked to capitalise while on top ,and strengthen for next year just to make sure they give themselves best chance to finish top .Not saying they will spend big but think Budge will adjust her thinking and tweak Budget and look to capitalise They will bring in a few players and maybe sign some on pre contracts .

[dangermouse]

FOH contributing 120K per month. One excellent reason why fan ownership will never work!

[greenginger]

According to BDO HOMFC total deficit at the start of Administration was .........................

£ 175,919,350.00 :greengrin

That included all the called up share capital.

[CropleyWasGod]

Given thier current position it wouldn't surprise me if they looked to capitalise while on top ,and strengthen for next year just to make sure they give themselves best chance to finish top .Not saying they will spend big but think Budge will adjust her thinking and tweak Budget and look to capitalise They will bring in a few players and maybe sign some on pre contracts .

Yeah, it will be tweaking at most.

In some ways, their large take-up of ST's this season has got them to a point where there's not much wiggle-room. Income-wise, this is almost as good as it gets for them. I can't see their ST sales being much bigger next season.

Conversely, if we do go up, we have a better chance of increasing ST's and walk-ups over this season's low figures.

[blackpoolhibs]

[QUOTE=greenginger;4249825]I count 10 new players signed by the Yams last summer.[/QUOTE


I wonder if any of their fans think its their biggest rebuilding job since winning WW2?

[Bill Milne]

Are they self -sufficient in the Yam meaning of the term ?

I know Budge said last week the would be running at a loss if it were not for FoH and their pledgers. But when could anything connected with finance coming from the PBS be taken as fact.

If Hertz are using pledge money to stay out of debt, can anyone tell me how Budge is, eventually, going to be repaid? This is, I stress, a genuine request for information as I was under the impression this money was to be used to give Budge her money back.

[CropleyWasGod]

If Hertz are using pledge money to stay out of debt, can anyone tell me how Budge is, eventually, going to be repaid? This is, I stress, a genuine request for information as I was under the impression this money was to be used to give Budge her money back.

As I understand it, FOH were to give the club £1m at the outset for working capital, and then £1.4m per annum over the next 2 seasons ( I think including this season). That's give, not lend, not repay.

The £2.5m due to Budge will be repaid after all of that has been given.

[jdships]

If Hertz are using pledge money to stay out of debt, can anyone tell me how Budge is, eventually, going to be repaid? This is, I stress, a genuine request for information as I was under the impression this money was to be used to give Budge her money back.

Good post
That's what I thought :agree:
Have asked this question of a few of my mates who are Jambo's and they admit either " Not sure" or " Don't Know "

:rolleyes:

[CropleyWasGod]

[/B]

Good post
That's what I thought :agree:
Have asked this question of a few of my mates who are Jambo's and they admit either " Not sure" or " Don't Know "

:rolleyes:

Refer them to the FOH website :wink:

http://www.foundationofhearts.org/foundation-of-hearts-qa/

It's rocket salad.

[Bill Milne]

As I understand it, FOH were to give the club £1m at the outset for working capital, and then £1.4m per annum over the next 2 seasons ( I think including this season). That's give, not lend, not repay.

The £2.5m due to Budge will be repaid after all of that has been given.

Thanks, CWG, that was useful. I regret that I don't pay a great deal of attention, well none at all actually, to anything done by the manky mob!!

[Mikey]

I think the Big Hearts debt was missing from the final creditors list published in January 2014. Can't find a copy of it to be 100% certain.

It is, which is why I posted up the original version :wink:

[Kaff]

I count 10 new players signed by the Yams last summer.

I think it refered to a particular weekend when 7 and 7 were the numbers but I take the point that it is 10 players.They haven't struggled on with by and large the same players, as CWG says though where is the room for growth? Pledgers have been at their limit for a while and season tickets will possibly have to be more expensive in order to gain more income.(Do that and you'll likely see a drop off in pledge money?)
A bit of momentum and we could soon surpass their nett budget if we had no debt and their stadium plans begin to eat into theit budget

[brog]

I think the Big Hearts debt was missing from the final creditors list published in January 2014. Can't find a copy of it to be 100% certain.

It was indeed & I think you're correct about some creative accounting. Similarly, some fans of The Rangers did do collections & paid off some of the smaller creditors, famously the lady who had provided face-painting at a childrens' party. I think we can be confident that no Yam paid off either the Big Hearts bill or any smaller creditors as it would have been front page headlines in the EEN if they had. Would have made Its a Wonderful Life look like a horror story! :wink:

[Betty Boop]

And the £ 100,000 due to our Council who are making people redundant.

Really? the council has a no redundancy policy.

[flash]

[QUOTE=greenginger;4249825]I count 10 new players signed by the Yams last summer.[/QUOTE


I wonder if any of their fans think its their biggest rebuilding job since winning WW2?

That's out of order. Everyone knows it was World War 1 that Hertz won.

[greenginger]

Really? the council has a no redundancy policy.


I know its just the local rag, but .....



http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/eight-sports-centres-face-closure-over-funding-cut-1-3584888

[CropleyWasGod]

I know its just the local rag, but .....



http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/eight-sports-centres-face-closure-over-funding-cut-1-3584888

EL isn't the council. It's a separate (charitable) company.

[greenginger]

EL isn't the council. It's a separate (charitable) company.


Part funded by the Council. If fraudsters bump the Council for business rates and rent its obvious there will be less in the kitty to support the likes of Edinburgh Leisure.

[CropleyWasGod]

Part funded by the Council. If fraudsters bump the Council for business rates and rent its obvious there will be less in the kitty to support the likes of Edinburgh Leisure.

Sure, but Betty was right about the no (compulsory)-redundancy policy.

http://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/info/20148/providing_for_edinburgh_s_prosperity/684/pledge_26

[greenginger]

Been trying to get my head around the figures in the Scotsman article and the figures published by BDO for the administration period.


http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/spfl-lower-divisions/hearts-reveal-operating-profit-during-darkest-days-1-3635288


Admin period is 19/6/13 - 11/6/14 Turnover - £4.6 million, Wages £ 2.35m Operating loss £ 82,601

Accounts period 1/7/13 - 30/6/14 Turnover - £6.5 million, Wages £ 2.90m, Operating profit £ 896,000

I know there is an extra 3 weeks at the end of June 2014 , but increase in t/o by 2 million and increase in wages of £ 550,000. :confused:

and BDO posted a loss not a profit.

[Ozyhibby]

All the season ticket money from when they were in admin was spirited away by the pre admin regime?

[Bostonhibby]

All the season ticket money from when they were in admin was spirited away by the pre admin regime?

:agree: Same suitcase as the share "issue" cash transactions wafted out the country just before the rest of them turned tail.

[greenginger]

All the season ticket money from when they were in admin was spirited away by the pre admin regime?


None of these figures relate to any pre-admin period. Its all admin and post admin.

[brog]

Been trying to get my head around the figures in the Scotsman article and the figures published by BDO for the administration period.


http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/spfl-lower-divisions/hearts-reveal-operating-profit-during-darkest-days-1-3635288


Admin period is 19/6/13 - 11 (tel:19/6/13 - 11)/6/14 Turnover - £4.6 million, Wages £ 2.35m Operating loss £ 82,601

Accounts period 1/7/13 - 30/6/14 Turnover - £6.5 million, Wages £ 2.90m, Operating profit £ 896,000

I know there is an extra 3 weeks at the end of June 2014 , but increase in t/o by 2 million and increase in wages of £ 550,000. :confused:

and BDO posted a loss not a profit.

Possibly early season ticket sales for 2014/15 & possibly paying off contracts for players released before end of their contract? I agree tho, on surface seems strange.

[Ronniekirk]

[QUOTE=greenginger;4249825]I count 10 new players signed by the Yams last summer.[/QUOTE


I wonder if any of their fans think its their biggest rebuilding job since winning WW2?

Your in danger of becoming EnTrench ed in that analogy :wink:

[CropleyWasGod]

Been trying to get my head around the figures in the Scotsman article and the figures published by BDO for the administration period.


http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/spfl-lower-divisions/hearts-reveal-operating-profit-during-darkest-days-1-3635288


Admin period is 19/6/13 - 11/6/14 Turnover - £4.6 million, Wages £ 2.35m Operating loss £ 82,601

Accounts period 1/7/13 - 30/6/14 Turnover - £6.5 million, Wages £ 2.90m, Operating profit £ 896,000

I know there is an extra 3 weeks at the end of June 2014 , but increase in t/o by 2 million and increase in wages of £ 550,000. :confused:

and BDO posted a loss not a profit.
The football debt included wages due to former players. That will be part of it.

[greenginger]

The football debt included wages due to former players. That will be part of it.

Could be, I dare say their accounts will reveal a bit more. Should be out in a few days.

[hibees 7062]

Will it?

I'm not so sure. If their income doesn't change much, I can't see AB sanctioning a lot of additional players.

It'll be demanded though :greengrin

[Caversham Green]

Been trying to get my head around the figures in the Scotsman article and the figures published by BDO for the administration period.


http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/spfl-lower-divisions/hearts-reveal-operating-profit-during-darkest-days-1-3635288


Admin period is 19/6/13 - 11/6/14 Turnover - £4.6 million, Wages £ 2.35m Operating loss £ 82,601

Accounts period 1/7/13 - 30/6/14 Turnover - £6.5 million, Wages £ 2.90m, Operating profit £ 896,000

I know there is an extra 3 weeks at the end of June 2014 , but increase in t/o by 2 million and increase in wages of £ 550,000. :confused:

and BDO posted a loss not a profit.

I think that's down to different accounting treatments - the BDO period will be more cash-flow based, for example it won't take into account the season ticket money that was lost before administration whereas the annual accounts will.


Could be, I dare say their accounts will reveal a bit more. Should be out in a few days.

They're already out but I haven't had a chance to look at them in any detail.

http://www.heartsfc.co.uk/news/4035

[greenginger]

I think that's down to different accounting treatments - the BDO period will be more cash-flow based, for example it won't take into account the season ticket money that was lost before administration whereas the annual accounts will.



They're already out but I haven't had a chance to look at them in any detail.

http://www.heartsfc.co.uk/news/4035


So their accounts , although technically correct, are painting a much rosier picture than their actual financial position.

Well played Vlad ! :thumbsup:

[CropleyWasGod]

I think that's down to different accounting treatments - the BDO period will be more cash-flow based, for example it won't take into account the season ticket money that was lost before administration whereas the annual accounts will.



They're already out but I haven't had a chance to look at them in any detail.

http://www.heartsfc.co.uk/news/4035

Had a very quick look at them.... interesting Audit Report and Going Concern note. :greengrin

Also interesting to note that they have included their memorabilia....

[lapsedhibee]

They really are an exemplary bunch. :agree:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/30508052

[HIBERNIAN-0762]

They really are an exemplary bunch. :agree:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/30508052

Took them long enough, months ahead?

Bollox...

[greenginger]

They really are an exemplary bunch. :agree:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/30508052


And the football clubs debts , Liverpool £ 47 K, Stenny £12 K, Musselburgh £ 7 K etc

Have they been settled in full ?

[lapsedhibee]

And the football clubs debts , Liverpool £ 47 K, Stenny £12 K, Musselburgh £ 7 K etc

Have they been settled in full ?

They're probably expecting Farmer to stump up for those, like he did for the bumped charity.

[brog]

And the football clubs debts , Liverpool £ 47 K, Stenny £12 K, Musselburgh £ 7 K etc

Have they been settled in full ?

Good question! Given we haven't had a heart-tugging story from an extremely grateful Stenny chairman that he'd received payment no more than 3 years late, I somehow doubt it!

[grunt]

They seem to have made a profit of £26m.
Pretty good going.

The club has received £1.8m from FOH.
That really is good going.

[Benny Brazil]

Had a very quick look at them.... interesting Audit Report and Going Concern note. :greengrin

Also interesting to note that they have included their memorabilia....

I see they note they have also issued those "missing" share certificates :greengrin

[CropleyWasGod]

I see they note they have also issued those "missing" share certificates :greengrin

... and the original ones will be part of that "memorabilia". :greengrin

[CropleyWasGod]

Had another look over the accounts.

Although we already knew it, it's worth emphasising just how much the club is reliant on the FOH subscriptions. They are running at £120k per month, which is pretty impressive. However, the accounts are drawn up (and audited) on the basis that this level will continue until at least December 15.

The money advanced by FOH is treated as a loan. At June it stood at £1.22m; it is now at £1.8m. The money advanced by Bidco is also treated as a loan. It is standing at £2.4m. Both loans are secured, with Bidco taking precedence, over Tynecastle. The stadium is valued at £5.45m.

So... it's there, to settle the pub arguments. They are not debt-free. It's currently at £4.2m.

Other than that, there's not much in there to get excited about. They made a small trading profit in that season.

Cav will be more forensic than me, though. :cb

[PatHead]

I am sure I heard that their turnover was also down to not having cup runs last season. (They got to the League Cup final the season before)


Just as well they have had good cup runs this season.


Oops, that part of the plan isn't sorted for next season.

[CropleyWasGod]

I am sure I heard that their turnover was also down to not having cup runs last season. (They got to the League Cup final the season before)


Just as well they have had good cup runs this season.


Oops, that part of the plan isn't sorted for next season.

They actually said that in the accounts. "This was due to limited cup success when compared to the previous year."

Turnover was down 10%.

[PatHead]

They actually said that in the accounts.

Turnover was down 10%.

Will Adam King's transfer inflate figures as well?

[CropleyWasGod]

Will Adam King's transfer inflate figures as well?

That's not included in Turnover, but shown separately. £234k.

[Bostonhibby]

Had another look over the accounts.

Although we already knew it, it's worth emphasising just how much the club is reliant on the FOH subscriptions. They are running at £120k per month, which is pretty impressive. However, the accounts are drawn up (and audited) on the basis that this level will continue until at least December 15.

The money advanced by FOH is treated as a loan. At June it stood at £1.22m; it is now at £1.8m. The money advanced by Bidco is also treated as a loan. It is standing at £2.4m. Both loans are secured, with Bidco taking precedence, over Tynecastle. The stadium is valued at £5.45m.

So... it's there, to settle the pub arguments. They are not debt-free. It's currently at £4.2m.

Other than that, there's not much in there to get excited about. They made a small trading profit in that season.

Cav will be more forensic than me, though. :cb

:confused: Family yam said to me that since they owe it to Budge its just like owing to themselves, I waited for the laughter but none came so when I prompted a bit further by asking what the DD money was for then he said it was for paying for "better" players - he would struggle a bit with that one mind as he originally signed up for a DD but then cancelled it once they were "saved" and before a penny was actually collected.

All very yammish behaviour really.

[PatHead]

That's not included in Turnover, but shown separately. £234k.

Sorry really meant that his transfer fee would help their overall figures for the year. Don't have that this year unless they sell someone and don't have a cup run (again) to fall back on.

If they do collapse on the pitch (and that is a big if) they could be struggling for a good while in the event of no promotion.

[Geo_1875]

Had another look over the accounts.

Although we already knew it, it's worth emphasising just how much the club is reliant on the FOH subscriptions. They are running at £120k per month, which is pretty impressive. However, the accounts are drawn up (and audited) on the basis that this level will continue until at least December 15.

The money advanced by FOH is treated as a loan. At June it stood at £1.22m; it is now at £1.8m. The money advanced by Bidco is also treated as a loan. It is standing at £2.4m. Both loans are secured, with Bidco taking precedence, over Tynecastle. The stadium is valued at £5.45m.

So... it's there, to settle the pub arguments. They are not debt-free. It's currently at £4.2m.

Other than that, there's not much in there to get excited about. They made a small trading profit in that season.

Cav will be more forensic than me, though. :cb

I assume this is a loan that they have no intention of repaying?

[CropleyWasGod]

Sorry really meant that his transfer fee would help their overall figures for the year. Don't have that this year unless they sell someone and don't have a cup run (again) to fall back on.

If they do collapse on the pitch (and that is a big if) they could be struggling for a good while in the event of no promotion.

The accounts say that they have the "best young squad of footballers in the country".

And they're audited accounts. :cb

[lapsedhibee]

If they do collapse on the pitch

:tsk tsk: Inconceivable that a club who regularly win world wars would lead a league table for so much of the season and then somehow fail to top it.

[Geo_1875]

The accounts say that they have the "best young squad of footballers in the country".

And they're audited accounts. :cb

Surely that is open to legal challenge, or ridicule.

[Geo_1875]

:tsk tsk: Inconceivable that a club who regularly win world wars would lead a league table for so much of the season and then somehow fail to top it.

Surely that would never happen.

[CropleyWasGod]

I assume this is a loan that they have no intention of repaying?

It's not clear what will happen to that loan. I suspect that, if and when the fan-ownership kicks in, the loan will be capitalised (the old debt-for-equity swap).

In the meantime, it just accumulates, is (I think) interest-free, and ranks behind BidCo should things fall apart again.

[PatHead]

It's not clear what will happen to that loan. I suspect that, if and when the fan-ownership kicks in, the loan will be capitalised (the old debt-for-equity swap).

In the meantime, it just accumulates, is (I think) interest-free, and ranks behind BidCo should things fall apart again.

Memory tells me it was not interest free but was at a highly competitive rate meaning the lender (AB) would get what she would have got from her bank- which is negligible at this time but would change in the event of interest rates going up. Stand to be corrected though.

[CropleyWasGod]

Memory tells me it was not interest free but was at a highly competitive rate meaning the lender (AB) would get what she would have got from her bank- which is negligible at this time but would change in the event of interest rates going up. Stand to be corrected though.

Sorry, I was talking about the FOH loan.

I think you're right about the BidCo loan, though.

[CRAZYHIBBY]

Cant be arsed reading all this so can someone please tell me are they up **** creak or no?

[blindsummit]

........ should things fall apart again.

And fall apart again I think they will Crops. Old habits die hard and the jambos pretensions to be the BIG club will undo them again. They will spend more money on players than they can afford to attempt to buy success. In a way they are already doing that. They have admitted that their death trap of a stadium needs either a lot of money spent on it or they need a new stadium, but have made no provision to deal with that, and are instead spending the money on a squad to win the Championship.

Once again the flaw in the Scottish system is exposed. Clubs should be forced to take care of the infrastructure, for safety and customer experience needs, and not be allowed to continually put that off in order to gain advantage over clubs who have done the right thing.

In my opinion, nothing has changed and Hearts are carrying on with their previous cheating to win sucess policies. My hope is that they will reach the point that they can no longer defer that infrastructure spending. Then they will truly be forced to live within their means.

I suspect they are counting on a compliant Edinburgh City Council, with Scottish Government support, to see them to a new free stadium. If this appears to be on the cards, I would hope that Hibs, and other clubs, would loudly cry foul.

[Oscar T Grouch]

The accounts say that they have the "best young squad of footballers in the country".

And they're audited accounts. :cb

The auditors should have looked at the development league table where hertz are 3rd bottom of a league of 17.

[CropleyWasGod]

Cant be arsed reading all this so can someone please tell me are they up **** creak or no?

As long as FOH keep chucking £120k their way every month, they're fine.

:cb

[GreenLake]

Here ye go.......

13860

This would be nice printed on a T-Shirt.

[Ronniekirk]

As long as FOH keep chucking £120k their way every month, they're fine.

:cb
And as expected Budge was on the telly tonight telling journalists how well they are doing ,and Robbie Nielson has exceeded her expectations and there is money to bring in players and All Is Barry basically .

[greenginger]

As long as FOH keep chucking £120k their way every month, they're fine.

:cb

Well thats their 10 new signings at £ 3000 per week spoken for.

Anyone have a clue what the new Yam wage level is at ? Did Wilson not take some sort of restricted wage in their hour of need but expected it to be raised when money flowed again.

[silverhibee]

http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/hearts/303906-hearts-look-to-strengthen-in-january-with-promotion-priority-at-tynecastle/

[blindsummit]

And as expected Budge was on the telly tonight telling journalists how well they are doing ,and Robbie Nielson has exceeded her expectations and there is money to bring in players and All Is Barry basically .

They should be spending that money on their infrastructure needs. Cheats, plain and simple.

[Waxy]

Neilson is just a puppet. Levein will be picking the players coming in.

[hibees 7062]

This would be nice printed on a T-Shirt.

Christ even ma T-Shirts no big enough for that lot :greengrin

[hibees 7062]

Neilson is just a puppet. Levein will be picking the players coming in.

:agree:

[Sergio sledge]

Does Vlads niece still own some of Hearts? 15% or something like that?

[greenginger]

Does Vlads niece still own some of Hearts? 15% or something like that?


Yes in some Swiss company called Quantum Holdings. Never understood why they never why the Liths never transferred the other 49% of shares before they abandoned ship.

Of course they may have done. I think there were reports of all UBIG documents having disappeared when their admin. team and fraud squad went looking for them.

[CropleyWasGod]

Yes in some Swiss company called Quantum Holdings. Never understood why they never why the Liths never transferred the other 49% of shares before they abandoned ship.

Of course they may have done. I think there were reports of all UBIG documents having disappeared when their admin. team and fraud squad went looking for them.
Bidco own about 74%, so Quantums 15% accounts for some of the rest. Presumably the rest are fan owned?

[Bostonhibby]

Yes in some Swiss company called Quantum Holdings. Never understood why they never why the Liths never transferred the other 49% of shares before they abandoned ship.

Of course they may have done. I think there were reports of all UBIG documents having disappeared when their admin. team and fraud squad went looking for them.

Does the permanent presence of a Romanov in their "fan owned" football model mean that the Champions league win and the megasuperhotelstadium is still a target?

[greenginger]

Bidco own about 74%, so Quantums 15% accounts for some of the rest. Presumably the rest are fan owned?


Heart of Midlothian 2005 Ltd own 4.45 % of the shares.

This was Vlad's original purchase vehicle and were all the original Yam shares before the debt for equity began.

No accounts or returns for this company were made for a couple of years so it has been struck-off.

Her Majesty, or the QLTR Office, are the proud owners of nearly 5% of crooked club.

I offered the QLTR a few quid for the shares when they first fell to the Crown. Unfortunately they said they are not minded to deal with the issue at the time, but said they would contact me if things changed.

[CropleyWasGod]

Heart of Midlothian 2005 Ltd own 4.45 % of the shares.

This was Vlad's original purchase vehicle and were all the original Yam shares before the debt for equity began.

No accounts or returns for this company were made for a couple of years so it has been struck-off.

Her Majesty, or the QLTR Office, are the proud owners of nearly 5% of crooked club.

I offered the QLTR a few quid for the shares when they first fell to the Crown. Unfortunately they said they are not minded to deal with the issue at the time, but said they would contact me if things changed.

Quick look at Companies House tells me that the last Annual Return (which would/may list the shareholders) was dated August 2012. In other words, there are 2 now overdue.

In other cases, I have seen companies threatened with striking-off for less. Just saying. :cb

[greenginger]

Quick look at Companies House tells me that the last Annual Return (which would/may list the shareholders) was dated August 2012. In other words, there are 2 now overdue.

In other cases, I have seen companies threatened with striking-off for less. Just saying. :cb

Its been puzzling me for a while. Doing an annual return on line takes about 5 minutes and costs £ 13 so why the delay. They have a Tenon/Mazars Accountant on the Board, and DLA Piper working for the club, surely enough expertise there.

Unless , the 49% of Yam share certificates they bought from UBIG have yet to be located or sent to Switzerland. :cb

Now that would be interesting.

[jacomo]

They should be spending that money on their infrastructure needs. Cheats, plain and simple.

Budge reckons promotion will be worth another £1m to the club. So, rightly, she's prioritising that over everything else, because if Hearts increase their income all other decisions become a little bit easier.

For good and bad reasons, Hibs were all over the place in the summer and our season didn't really get going until October. We've been playing catch up since.

I hope we've learned from this as I think some of these problems could have been avoided.

Unlike some on here. :wink: :wink: :wink:

[IWasThere2016]

Budge reckons promotion will be worth another £1m to the club. So, rightly, she's prioritising that over everything else, because if Hearts increase their income all other decisions become a little bit easier.

For good and bad reasons, Hibs were all over the place in the summer and our season didn't really get going until October. We've been playing catch up since.

I hope we've learned from this as I think some of these problems could have been avoided.

Unlike some on here. :wink: :wink: :wink:

Yup - we are NEVER ready.

[Deansy]

Budge reckons promotion will be worth another £1m to the club. So, rightly, she's prioritising that over everything else, because if Hearts increase their income all other decisions become a little bit easier.

For good and bad reasons, Hibs were all over the place in the summer and our season didn't really get going until October. We've been playing catch up since.

I hope we've learned from this as I think some of these problems could have been avoided.

Unlike some on here. :wink: :wink: :wink:

'Business 1st - Football 2nd' prevents ANY chance of that happening !

[greenginger]

Foundation of Yams accounts to 30/6/2014 now on line.


ftp://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk/image/5e/8d/5a/54/6c/d0/ce/1d/77/11/cb/6d/40/06/bb/a0/blREX+GJ0353-176554_6-11575427.pdf

[CropleyWasGod]

Foundation of Yams accounts to 30/6/2014 now on line.


ftp://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk/image/5e/8d/5a/54/6c/d0/ce/1d/77/11/cb/6d/40/06/bb/a0/blREX+GJ0353-176554_6-11575427.pdf

What? No provision for Bad Debts?

:greengrin

[Geo_1875]

I notice they held their AGM in a closet under the stairs.

[Andy74]

So when they start having to divert the money from pledges into paying back the owner they will be losing £1.4 million or so from the budget?

They expect to make some more by being in the top league but you'd expect that they would also have to up their budget to make any impact there.

They still also have to do something in relation to their stadium. They sound a fair bit away from being in any way financially sound.

They do have a habit of none of that making any odds but even now with the pledge money being used to fund budget its hard to tell when they have ever been operating within their means.

[jacomo]

Yup - we are NEVER ready.

TBF, Butcher dropped us in the **** and then Petrie dropped the **** onto LD's in tray for her first week in the job. Getting rid and bringing in AS was the right decision but set us back at least a month. I can forgive all that.

Now though, the club has scheduled an AGM for 28 Jan, just a few days before the end of the January transfer window. This is bound to distract key execs from the business of doing all we can to strengthen the squad for the 2nd half of the season.

Why do we do this to ourselves?

[Geo_1875]

Which key execs do want to be out finding new players?

[Andy74]

TBF, Butcher dropped us in the **** and then Petrie dropped the **** onto LD's in tray for her first week in the job. Getting rid and bringing in AS was the right decision but set us back at least a month. I can forgive all that.

Now though, the club has scheduled an AGM for 28 Jan, just a few days before the end of the January transfer window. This is bound to distract key execs from the business of doing all we can to strengthen the squad for the 2nd half of the season.

Why do we do this to ourselves?

Is this serious? :confused:

[CropleyWasGod]

TBF, Butcher dropped us in the **** and then Petrie dropped the **** onto LD's in tray for her first week in the job. Getting rid and bringing in AS was the right decision but set us back at least a month. I can forgive all that.

Now though, the club has scheduled an AGM for 28 Jan, just a few days before the end of the January transfer window. This is bound to distract key execs from the business of doing all we can to strengthen the squad for the 2nd half of the season.

Why do we do this to ourselves?
You saying that the AGM distracts the football staff? Or have I misunderstood?

[green day]

So when they start having to divert the money from pledges into paying back the owner they will be losing £1.4 million or so from the budget?

They expect to make some more by being in the top league but you'd expect that they would also have to up their budget to make any impact there.

They still also have to do something in relation to their stadium. They sound a fair bit away from being in any way financially sound.

They do have a habit of none of that making any odds but even now with the pledge money being used to fund budget its hard to tell when they have ever been operating within their means.

Bit in bold - also calls into question the 3 year (?) plan of buying out Queen Budgie unless they are squirrelling money away to repay her.

[CropleyWasGod]

Bit in bold - also calls into question the 3 year (?) plan of buying out Queen Budgie unless they are squirrelling money away to repay her.
It's a 5-6 year plan IIRC. Once the pledges have topped 6.3m, the buyout can start.

[jacomo]

You saying that the AGM distracts the football staff? Or have I misunderstood?

I am saying that the AGM will take focus away from transfer business. We already know that LD signs off on deals. I think it's a potential risk.

[jacomo]

Is this serious? :confused:

Please stop with the unnecessary aggro. Been through this yesterday.

Yes, it is a serious point. I've explained my thoughts above. It's an opinion. Either engage constructively or don't bother, please.

[CropleyWasGod]

I am saying that the AGM will take focus away from transfer business. We already know that LD signs off on deals. I think it's a potential risk.
Not sure I follow. As far as the AGM is concerned:-

Rod does his speech.
The FD does his.
STF and RP will be dealing with the restructuring.

LD will probably attend, but once she's organised the biscuits, there's not much to take her mind off fitba matters.

[jacomo]

Which key execs do want to be out finding new players?

As above, Hibs have confirmed that LD signs off transfer business. LD will presumably also have a big role in the AGM. That clear?

[Andy74]

I am saying that the AGM will take focus away from transfer business. We already know that LD signs off on deals. I think it's a potential risk.

Nah, we all know Rod does that. :wink:

The AGM is a couple of hours and some prep and is largely a Chairman led event to go through a few formalities.

This year we could get a presentation of the strategy plan too. All that work is ongoing and so is the work being done by the football department to identify players.

I won't drag this out but I think the suggestion that a meeting could have any effect on our ability to operate in the transfer window is taking the level of worrying just a bit too far.

[Andy74]

Please stop with the unnecessary aggro. Been through this yesterday.

Yes, it is a serious point. I've explained my thoughts above. It's an opinion. Either engage constructively or don't bother, please.

My word, you think that's aggro? Settle down.

If you want me to be straight the suggestion was so ludicrous that my post was a genuine follow up question to check you were not taking the mick.

There.

[jacomo]

Not sure I follow. As far as the AGM is concerned:-

Rod does his speech.
The FD does his.
STF and RP will be dealing with the restructuring.

LD will probably attend, but once she's organised the biscuits, there's not much to take her mind off fitba matters.

Maybe. I think LD will be very much involved in the AGM. CEOs at other fitba clubs are.

[CropleyWasGod]

Maybe. I think LD will be very much involved in the AGM. CEOs at other fitba clubs are.
...doing what? The normal business of our AGM is covered by others.

Even if she is required to make a speech, I think she's able to organise that AND do her day job.

[jacomo]

My word, you think that's aggro? Settle down.

If you want me to be straight the suggestion was so ludicrous that my post was a genuine follow up question to check you were not taking the mick.

There.

I am sure you've followed the discussions about the aggravation on this site and divisions amongst the support. I thought perhaps you might to take a lead in making things more civil.

But carry on as you wish.

[jacomo]

My word, you think that's aggro? Settle down.

If you want me to be straight the suggestion was so ludicrous that my post was a genuine follow up question to check you were not taking the mick.

There.

I'll tell you what IS ludicrous - hosting a meeting with supporters on TDD. Is this what well run clubs do?

[CropleyWasGod]

I'll tell you what IS ludicrous - hosting a meeting with supporters on TDD. Is this what well run clubs do?
AS " Leanne....I've got Ronaldo's agent on the phone. He says he'll play for us for nothing."

LS " Not now, Alan. I've got to arrange the chairs for the meeting. "

[emoji1]

[green day]

It's a 5-6 year plan IIRC. Once the pledges have topped 6.3m, the buyout can start.

OK, but presumably even the longer timeframe doesn't give them the required wonga (sic) if they continue to spend on bau?

[CropleyWasGod]

OK, but presumably even the longer timeframe doesn't give them the required wonga (sic) if they continue to spend on bau?
Don't know if I'm getting you right.

The first 3.8m of pledges is meant to aid their budget. Presumably, once that's paid, they will be in the top league and. ..cough... self - sufficient. In theory, the club won't need the money any more.
However, as many have said, where is the cash for the stadium upkeep coming from?

[PatHead]

I'll tell you what IS ludicrous - hosting a meeting with supporters on TDD. Is this what well run clubs do?

LD explained at that meeting that George Craig is the one who deals with agents, players, etc. If there is anything urgent he would contact her by telephone.

In any event the window does not close for a couple of days after the AGM. Do you expect LD to sit around for the whole of January waiting on transfer dealings? Surely she is capable of attending a meeting during the window?

BTW I do think she will have some part of the presentation and won't be setting chairs or choosing the biscuits even though she is very much a hands on person!

[greenginger]

Don't know if I'm getting you right.

The first 3.8m of pledges is meant to aid their budget. Presumably, once that's paid, they will be in the top league and. ..cough... self - sufficient. In theory, the club won't need the money any more.
However, as many have said, where is the cash for the stadium upkeep coming from?


Could someone with a good camera phone not visit their "100 year old wooden structure" as Budge described and take some footage and post it on U-tube.

Get some publicity and force them to spend the money on making their stadium compliant with safety regulations.

[jacomo]

LD explained at that meeting that George Craig is the one who deals with agents, players, etc. If there is anything urgent he would contact her by telephone.

In any event the window does not close for a couple of days after the AGM. Do you expect LD to sit around for the whole of January waiting on transfer dealings? Surely she is capable of attending a meeting during the window?

BTW I do think she will have some part of the presentation and won't be setting chairs or choosing the biscuits even though she is very much a hands on person!

January potentially make or break for us. Last week of Jan is when deals get done. I expect Hibs to do everything possible to maximise our chances of success.

Scheduling the AGM for the same week is an avoidable distraction. Successful businesses identify key priorities and bring relentless focus to them.

Hibs is not, by any measure, a successful business at this point in time.

[CropleyWasGod]

January potentially make or break for us. Last week of Jan is when deals get done. I expect Hibs to do everything possible to maximise our chances of success.

Scheduling the AGM for the same week is an avoidable distraction. Successful businesses identify key priorities and bring relentless focus to them.

Hibs is not, by any measure, a successful business at this point in time.
I really think that you're giving the AGM more significance than it deserves. The preparation is not that onerous and, for the most part, will have already been done.

[Andy74]

I am sure you've followed the discussions about the aggravation on this site and divisions amongst the support. I thought perhaps you might to take a lead in making things more civil.

But carry on as you wish.

I haven't done anything to make things any less civil thanks, you turning everything into an ongoing argument, however, is.

Anyway, this one is such a non point I will let others get on with it.

[silverhibee]

I expect all our new signings to be done long before the 28th of January and Griffiths to be signed on the 1st January, if he ain't here on the 1st then it ain't happening. :cb

[PatHead]

January potentially make or break for us. Last week of Jan is when deals get done. I expect Hibs to do everything possible to maximise our chances of success.

Scheduling the AGM for the same week is an avoidable distraction. Successful businesses identify key priorities and bring relentless focus to them.

Hibs is not, by any measure, a successful business at this point in time.

I would personally be worried if our whole season relies on 3 hours on a January evening. If a business has that small a window it is sure to fail.

I also think that the AGM had to be done then as it was so late compared to other years.

[jacomo]

I expect all our new signings to be done long before the 28th of January and Griffiths to be signed on the 1st January, if he ain't here on the 1st then it ain't happening. :cb

Griffiths ain't happening IMO. What reason does Celtc have to loan him to us?

As for any other business, how do you know? Transfers often go down to the last hour.

[Billy Whizz]

I expect all our new signings to be done long before the 28th of January and Griffiths to be signed on the 1st January, if he ain't here on the 1st then it ain't happening. :cb

Is the transfer window open on the 1st January, or are the offices closed as its a public holisay?

[jacomo]

I haven't done anything to make things any less civil thanks, you turning everything into an ongoing argument, however, is.

Anyway, this one is such a non point I will let others get on with it.

And again.

Happy to discuss Hibs. Very very bored of this. Stop quoting me please. I thought I had got somewhere with you and the other guy but it always comes back to the same place.

Stop quoting me please.

[silverhibee]

Could someone with a good camera phone not visit their "100 year old wooden structure" as Budge described and take some footage and post it on U-tube.

Get some publicity and force them to spend the money on making their stadium compliant with safety regulations.

Surely it must be or it would have been closed down by now. :dunno:

Queen B obviously feels safe sitting in it.

[cabbageandribs1875]

i see the pink scarf twirlers have given a contract extension to prince buaheid until 2018

[greenginger]

Surely it must be or it would have been closed down by now. :dunno:

Queen B obviously feels safe sitting in it.

Over 10 years ago both Hibs and Hearts received letters from our Council saying our main stands did not comply with safety requirements and their safety certificates would not be renewed.

Within 2 years Hibs had taken down and replaced their main stand. Meanwhile the Yams have offered every excuse under the sun to avoid carrying out the construction work required.

First Pieman said the PBS was not fit for purpose and was moving to Murrayfied, then the Liths had the Megastand proposals and of course were allowed to operate the old stand whilst waiting on planning permission.

Now Budge, just the other week says they are looking at options of moving again, so please don't make us do any work on the death trap.

[Pete]

Over 10 years ago both Hibs and Hearts received letters from our Council saying our main stands did not comply with safety requirements and their safety certificates would not be renewed.

Within 2 years Hibs had taken down and replaced their main stand. Meanwhile the Yams have offered every excuse under the sun to avoid carrying out the construction work required.

First Pieman said the PBS was not fit for purpose and was moving to Murrayfied, then the Liths had the Megastand proposals and of course were allowed to operate the old stand whilst waiting on planning permission.

Now Budge, just the other week says they are looking at options of moving again, so please don't make us do any work on the death trap.

They've been sticking their fingers in their ears for years when it comes to these issues. The pie man proposed an honourable solution but he was run out of town for daring to suggest that they should face up to their problems.

Any hibs fan who takes one ounce of their "big team, 5-1" bragging to heart is an idiot. It has all been done on the never-never and deserves absolutely no credit or recognition of any kind. History has a habit of forgetting details like that though so we'd be doing ourselves a disservice if we ever let them forget.

[EastCalderHibby]

They've been sticking their fingers in their ears for years when it comes to these issues. The pie man proposed an honourable solution but he was run out of town for daring to suggest that they should face up to their problems.

Any hibs fan who takes one ounce of their "big team, 5-1" bragging to heart is an idiot. It has all been done on the never-never and deserves absolutely no credit or recognition of any kind. History has a habit of forgetting details like that though so we'd be doing ourselves a disservice if we ever let them forget.

I can assure you i will NEVER not EVER let the sewer dwellers forget their MANY MANY MISDEMEANORS :lolyam:

:flag: :flag: :flag: :flag: :flag: :flag: :flag:

[connerg]

Over 10 years ago both Hibs and Hearts received letters from our Council saying our main stands did not comply with safety requirements and their safety certificates would not be renewed.

Within 2 years Hibs had taken down and replaced their main stand. Meanwhile the Yams have offered every excuse under the sun to avoid carrying out the construction work required.

First Pieman said the PBS was not fit for purpose and was moving to Murrayfied, then the Liths had the Megastand proposals and of course were allowed to operate the old stand whilst waiting on planning permission.

Now Budge, just the other week says they are looking at options of moving again, so please don't make us do any work on the death trap.

Well over 10 years ago. Seem to remember the Council telling both teams around 1999/2000. Hibs acted fairly quickly and our New West Stand was completed and in use by 2002/3. I think.

[Mikey09]

Surely it must be or it would have been closed down by now. :dunno:

Queen B obviously feels safe sitting in it.


Its in no way safe. The Yams have Edinburgh Council to thank for issuing safety certificates for that bombscare of a stand, and one Steve Cardownie in particular..... Oh it's only a coincidence he is given tickets, wined and dined at most home games.... :wink:

[Mr White]

Well over 10 years ago. Seem to remember the Council telling both teams around 1999/2000. Hibs acted fairly quickly and our New West Stand was completed and in use by 2002/3. I think.

Start of season 01/02. 2-2 against aberdeen first game IIRC

[Scottiedog007]

I am sure they are more than capable of holding an AGM on the 28th January when the transfer windows does not close until the 2nd February 2015 !!

[fat freddy]

Surely it must be or it would have been closed down by now. :dunno:

Queen B obviously feels safe sitting in it.

Queen B only sits in the ramshackle stand because that's where the directors box is situated, before she bought the club she had a season ticket for the wheatfield stand. She knows the main stand is a death trap. If a serious incident resulting in death were to occur in that stand there would be many officials within Hearts, The City of Edinburgh Council, Police Scotland and The Fire Department facing serious allegations of negligence, I would go as far as to say some would possibly be facing criminal charges.

[HIBERNIAN-0762]

Queen B only sits in the ramshackle stand because that's where the directors box is situated, before she bought the club she had a season ticket for the wheatfield stand. She knows the main stand is a death trap. If a serious incident resulting in death were to occur in that stand there would be many officials within Hearts, The City of Edinburgh Council, Police Scotland and The Fire Department facing serious allegations of negligence, I would go as far as to say some would possibly be facing criminal charges.

Agreed and if anything did happen they would walk away blame free like they always do.

[connerg]

Start of season 01/02. 2-2 against aberdeen first game IIRC


Kilmarnock

[Ozyhibby]

Agreed and if anything did happen they would walk away blame free like they always do.

Agreed. As always it would be a case of 'lessons will be learnt'.

[silverhibee]

Queen B only sits in the ramshackle stand because that's where the directors box is situated, before she bought the club she had a season ticket for the wheatfield stand. She knows the main stand is a death trap. If a serious incident resulting in death were to occur in that stand there would be many officials within Hearts, The City of Edinburgh Council, Police Scotland and The Fire Department facing serious allegations of negligence, I would go as far as to say some would possibly be facing criminal charges.

I need this explained to me, are you saying folk working for Edinburgh Council, Police Scotland and the Fire Department are turning a blind eye to a accident waiting to happen at that stadium or even worse is it being insinuated that Officials within hertz are possibly bribing Council members and officials in the Police and Fire department.?

[Thecat23]

It's a wooden shed but it must be safe enough for fans or they wouldn't risk a fan being seriously hurt or killed. We are straw clutching i think.

They will one day need to sort all four stands not just the one until then nothing will shut it down!

[Kato]

It's a wooden shed but it must be safe enough for fans or they wouldn't risk a fan being seriously hurt or killed. We are straw clutching i think.

They will one day need to sort all four stands not just the one until then nothing will shut it down!

If its safe why did the council inform Hearts (and Hibs) that their wooden stands would no longer be issued with a safety certificate over 15 years ago? Hibs complied with what they were being told by the council but Hearts didn't only to be given a safety certificate anyway.

If it wasn't safe then how can it be safe now?

[Thecat23]

If its safe why did the council inform Hearts (and Hibs) that their wooden stands would no longer be issued with a safety certificate over 15 years ago? Hibs complied with what they were being told by the council but Hearts didn't only to be given a safety certificate anyway.

If it wasn't safe then how can it be safe now?

They simply tried to scare both clubs into improving their stadiums. There is not a chance in hell that this day and age they would risk a life of a supporter by opening a stand that's not fit! Sorry I don't buy into the council giving Hearts a little back hander!


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[Mr White]

Kilmarnock

:aok:

IDRC :greengrin

[silverhibee]

They simply tried to scare both clubs into improving their stadiums. There is not a chance in hell that this day and age they would risk a life of a supporter by opening a stand that's not fit! Sorry I don't buy into the council giving Hearts a little back hander!


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:agree:

And the Police and Fire service turning a blind eye too, no chance, it must be safe for purpose or in this day in age after certain disasters it would be closed down, simple as that.

[Thecat23]

:agree:

And the Police and Fire service turning a blind eye too, no chance, it must be safe for purpose or in this day in age after certain disasters it would be closed down, simple as that.

Exactly Silver! It's all rubbish it really is. It's a **** hole but still fit for fans to sit in. Who in their right mind would doctor a safety certificate just because they "support" Hearts!!

They'd be done for manslaughter and Hearts would be sued millions. Let's just put this to bed and laugh when they can't afford to upgrade!


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[Colr]

They should be spending that money on their infrastructure needs. Cheats, plain and simple.


They'll be waiting for the Council to step and build a new stadium for them

[silverhibee]

Exactly Silver! It's all rubbish it really is. It's a **** hole but still fit for fans to sit in. Who in their right mind would doctor a safety certificate just because they "support" Hearts!!

They'd be done for manslaughter and Hearts would be sued millions. Let's just put this to bed and laugh when they can't afford to upgrade!


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Don't no if since the smoking ban was implemented that has done them a favour in getting a safety certificate, but they have got one, this isn't just down to a council dude getting some free tickets and hospitality and him signing off that the ground is safe, a lot more folk would be involved and i just can't see folk doing this where there is potential for a major disaster happening for a few tickets and pies..

[Thecat23]

Don't no if since the smoking ban was implemented that has done them a favour in getting a safety certificate, but they have got one, this isn't just down to a council dude getting some free tickets and hospitality and him signing off that the ground is safe, a lot more folk would be involved and i just can't see folk doing this where there is potential for a major disaster happening for a few tickets and pies..

My thoughts exactly.


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[Kato]

They simply tried to scare both clubs into improving their stadiums. There is not a chance in hell that this day and age they would risk a life of a supporter by opening a stand that's not fit! Sorry I don't buy into the council giving Hearts a little back hander!


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Never the less the letters were issued. If Hearts haven't been given preferential treatment there maybe you could explain how? Why haven't their been subsequent warnings issued given the last one was 15 years ago?

The council were willing to act illegally over the Lochend Butterfly, the council were willing to knock Hibs back over Huntershall whilst paying Hearts "rent" for a section of their ground.

Person all only been in their stand twice and apart from the materials it's made from I didn't think it was very safe.

Still, better not have any bad words to say about EC, they are busy what with covering up the Compulsory Repairs scandal and shredding all those Tram documents.

[Thecat23]

Never the less the letters were issued. If Hearts haven't been given preferential treatment there maybe you could explain how? Why haven't their been subsequent warnings issued given the last one was 15 years ago?

The council were willing to act illegally over the Lochend Butterfly, the council were willing to knock Hibs back over Huntershall whilst paying Hearts "rent" for a section of their ground.

Person all only been in their stand twice and apart from the materials it's made from I didn't think it was very safe.

Still, better not have any bad words to say about EC, they are busy what with covering up the Compulsory Repairs scandal and shredding all those Tram documents.

I don't work for the council so I can't answer for them. I can only assume hearts repaired what was needed back then and have done yearly repairs to make sure it's safe enough for football fans to attend! Are you saying you think hearts have had some sort of back handers and certificates given just because you think EC have a few Jambos?

On the topic of the trams I was on a stag with one of the head guys that done the contract. They hired a German firm for it and the messed the council about big time! Started asking for more money for metal etc and just kept increasing it. If the council stopped there and then they would have had to pay the company the original fee along with starting again. Now the EC are suing them and there will be a public enquiry about the way the council were backed into a corner!

For the record I still think the trams are a waste of space and money!


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[fat freddy]

I need this explained to me, are you saying folk working for Edinburgh Council, Police Scotland and the Fire Department are turning a blind eye to a accident waiting to happen at that stadium or even worse is it being insinuated that Officials within hertz are possibly bribing Council members and officials in the Police and Fire department.?
I'm not saying bribes are being given, it's more subtle that that, similar to the pressure exerted on individual debtors not to call debts in which might have resulted in bringing the club to it's knees, the suggestion was always the same, 'do you want to be seen as the one to take the club into administration?' They were willing to use that tactic to stave of administration, I have no doubt that they use it to keep the main stand open. They are currently carrying out essential safety work and some maintenance work notably they are bringing hot water to some areas deprived of it for the past 100 years, if this safety work is essential it can be presumed that they have been ordered to do it. Which leads to the conclusion that it should have been in place when the last safety certificate was issued. I'm of the view that they have bought some time to come up to the necessary standards by exerting pressure on those who issue the certificates.

[ancient hibee]

I don't work for the council so I can't answer for them. I can only assume hearts repaired what was needed back then and have done yearly repairs to make sure it's safe enough for football fans to attend! Are you saying you think hearts have had some sort of back handers and certificates given just because you think EC have a few Jambos?

On the topic of the trams I was on a stag with one of the head guys that done the contract. They hired a German firm for it and the messed the council about big time! Started asking for more money for metal etc and just kept increasing it. If the council stopped there and then they would have had to pay the company the original fee along with starting again. Now the EC are suing them and there will be a public enquiry about the way the council were backed into a corner!

For the record I still think the trams are a waste of space and money!


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I believe they said the stand at Bradford was perfectly safe until it burned down-what was it 50 deaths?

Your chum at the stag do is trying to rewrite history-not surprising if he was involved in drawing up the contract which has been described as not fit for purpose.

[Thecat23]

I believe they said the stand at Bradford was perfectly safe until it burned down-what was it 50 deaths?

Your chum at the stag do is trying to rewrite history-not surprising if he was involved in drawing up the contract which has been described as not fit for purpose.

How many years ago was that disaster? How far on have we came since then? If it was unsafe it would be closed simple as that.

You may well be correct I wasn't involved in any of the plans and still think it was a huge shambles but I wanted to put across a fact not fiction as will be seen in the public enquiry! The German firm did hold there EC over a barrel regarding their deal! But EC prob should have made sure in their contract that nothing like that could happen!


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[fat freddy]

I don't work for the council so I can't answer for them. I can only assume hearts repaired what was needed back then and have done yearly repairs to make sure it's safe enough for football fans to attend! Are you saying you think hearts have had some sort of back handers and certificates given just because you think EC have a few Jambos?

On the topic of the trams I was on a stag with one of the head guys that done the contract. They hired a German firm for it and the messed the council about big time! Started asking for more money for metal etc and just kept increasing it. If the council stopped there and then they would have had to pay the company the original fee along with starting again. Now the EC are suing them and there will be a public enquiry about the way the council were backed into a corner!

For the record I still think the trams are a waste of space and money!


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You have been misinformed, the fault of the trams fiasco lies at Edinburgh City Councils door. The German company given the contract told the council they needed the wate
r gas electricity ect moved to one side of the road as the tram lines require to be built on solid ground and also for any possible inconvenience when works are necessary on these services. The council was given 18 months to carry out this enabling work, they failed to do it. When the Germans pitched up they found that they were on down time from day one. They were stunned to discover that the enabling works hadn't been carried out and this set off a chain of delays and penalties which we have now become familiar with. The enquiry may find that putting a couple of folk from the social work department with no experience of the construction industry in charge of such a major development wasn't their finest decision. The council is a den of chancers and amateurs from top to bottom. I wouldn't let them run a school nativity play, they would Dress Mary as Herod and would put someone from the statutory housing repairs fiasco in charge of stable and mainger maintenance

[Thecat23]

You have been misinformed, the fault of the trams fiasco lies at Edinburgh City Councils door. The German company given the contract told the council they needed the wate
r gas electricity ect moved to one side of the road as the tram lines require to be built on solid ground and also for any possible inconvenience when works are necessary on these services. The council was given 18 months to carry out this enabling work, they failed to do it. When the Germans pitched up they found that they were on down time from day one. They were stunned to discover that the enabling works hadn't been carried out and this set off a chain of delays and penalties which we have now become familiar with. The enquiry may find that putting a couple of folk from the social work department with no experience of the construction industry in charge of such a major development wasn't their finest decision. The council is a den of chancers and amateurs from top to bottom. I wouldn't let them run a school nativity play, they would Dress Mary as Herod and would put someone from the statutory housing repairs fiasco in charge of stable and mainger maintenance

I'll let him know next time I see him! He's a nice guy as well and has no interest in Hearts btw as some seem to think EC is a Hearts supported club! Not saying you.

I don't trust many folk in the council and they certainly fail in many departments. But back to the stand issue. I think if you believe folk are giving back handers to hearts to keep it open I personally think you have to be deluded! Sorry for going against the grain as I hate them as much as anybody but we sound a bunch of desperate idiots at times when it comes to their affairs over the road.


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[Turkish Green]

:agree:

And the Police and Fire service turning a blind eye too, no chance, it must be safe for purpose or in this day in age after certain disasters it would be closed down, simple as that.

Correct. It is all rubbish. It may be a wooden hovel, which I will never sit in, but it is fit for purpose (for now) or it would not pass the fire & safety inspection. But as Budgie said it is reaching its shelf life and it will need replaced or they will move to a knew stadium.

We really do need to get the chips of our shoulders when it comes to them and concentrate on supporting Hibs.

[ancient hibee]

How many years ago was that disaster? How far on have we came since then? If it was unsafe it would be closed simple as that.

You may well be correct I wasn't involved in any of the plans and still think it was a huge shambles but I wanted to put across a fact not fiction as will be seen in the public enquiry! The German firm did hold there EC over a barrel regarding their deal! But EC prob should have made sure in their contract that nothing like that could happen!


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Fire was in 1985-so 30 years ago-Hearts stand has been criticised for the best part of 20 years.It doesn't have to be categorised as unsafe to be dangerous in certain circumstances.I don't believe in council conspiracies but I certainly believe in council ineptitude and I wouldn't watch a game from it.My half dozen Heart supporting chums sit in other parts of the ground-two of them having moved out of it.

[greenginger]

How many years ago was that disaster? How far on have we came since then? If it was unsafe it would be closed simple as that.

You may well be correct I wasn't involved in any of the plans and still think it was a huge shambles but I wanted to put across a fact not fiction as will be seen in the public enquiry! The German firm did hold there EC over a barrel regarding their deal! But EC prob should have made sure in their contract that nothing like that could happen!


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It is obvious a wooden stand decking is not as safe as a concrete stand decking, but how less safe do you want something to be before the club are forced to comply with the notice they received to replace their stand.

They have been using delaying tactics for nearly 15 years, we are moving/ we have plans for a new stand. Now Budge has joined the game by talking about moving again.

The very least the Council should do is reduce the stand capacity significantly and force them to rebuild or move.

As for the trams, I think the single biggest cost increase was for moving services under the tram route. The Council employed a company that had never done that kind of work before and estimated at less than a quarter of the final cost.

Of course a proper cost estimate would never seen the tram project get to first base.

[Thecat23]

Fire was in 1985-so 30 years ago-Hearts stand has been criticised for the best part of 20 years.It doesn't have to be categorised as unsafe to be dangerous in certain circumstances.I don't believe in council conspiracies but I certainly believe in council ineptitude and I wouldn't watch a game from it.My half dozen Heart supporting chums sit in other parts of the ground-two of them having moved out of it.

Couple my mates still sit in it. I've never sat in the stand and have no intention of sitting in it. But it's like saying anything that's old and made of wood is dangerous. With smoking band at games the risk of a fire is very low. The electrics will have been checked over and I'm sure the stand would have to pass certain safely regulations from not just EC but other sporting bodies.

I'm not saying it's perfect far from it. But do I think it's safe to hold fans? Yes I do.


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[Waxy]

They shouldn't be allowed in the SPFL while they have that deathtrap stand. If it was up to me, i'd duduct 25pts from them right now, put a transfer embargo on them, make them play their home matches on the gyle park pitches,take away their history,make Ally Mcoist their manager and get the council to wash gorgie road with very strong disinfectant.

[Thecat23]

It is obvious a wooden stand decking is not as safe as a concrete stand decking, but how less safe do you want something to be before the club are forced to comply with the notice they received to replace their stand.

They have been using delaying tactics for nearly 15 years, we are moving/ we have plans for a new stand. Now Budge has joined the game by talking about moving again.

The very least the Council should do is reduce the stand capacity significantly and force them to rebuild or move.

As for the trams, I think the single biggest cost increase was for moving services under the tram route. The Council employed a company that had never done that kind of work before and estimated at less than a quarter of the final cost.

Of course a proper cost estimate would never seen the tram project get to first base.

Hearts know they need a new stand but the council can't force them to close it unless it's unsafe?

Again I don't work for the council and I don't agree with the trams either. Just putting a guy who I know point across. He worked on it and did say there was many failings at all levels. But then went onto talk about how the German firm shafted them. I'm sure he's biased as it's his job but I can prob say he knows more about it than almost anyone on here!




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[Thecat23]

They shouldn't be allowed in the SPFL while they have that deathtrap stand. If it was up to me, i'd duduct 25pts from them right now, put a transfer embargo on them, make them play their home matches on the gyle park pitches,take away their history,make Ally Mcoist their manager and get the council to wash gorgie road with very strong disinfectant.

Now I can't argue with any of this :D

[Pete]

We really do need to get the chips of our shoulders when it comes to them and concentrate on supporting Hibs.

Taking about them on an Internet forum doesn't mean we have a chip on our shoulder. Their our city rivals FFS.

And how much concentration do you think it requires to support hibs? Do you not think we have the mental capacity to switch between two subjects?

[silverhibee]

So for the last 15 years or so the Council, Fire Brigade and other bodies involved have just been turning a blind eye to the state of that stand and know it is unsafe and god forbid if there was a fire or the stand collapsed they will be happy to have that on there conscious for the rest of there life, it is 2014 and if the stand was not safe for purpose it would have been closed down by now, it is safe to say that the stand is safe or it wouldn't get the safety certificate, Council Fire brigade, Electrician, Gas company and who ever else it takes to get it passed safe have said nothing all theses years, no chance, they (yams) must be doing what is required to get things passed by all parties, FFS we are talking about a stand that holds over 1000 people and folk high up in places in Edinburgh are just buying that the past or present owners of this stand just because they are submitting or talking about moving/building a new stand would have still been waiting to see what happens, once again, no chance, it would have been closed down by now no matter who was dealing with it.

Was Partick Thistles main stand not closed down for a bit or limited to so many folk being allowed in the stand at one time, now the whole stand is open for away fans, Thistle reps must no folk in Glasgow council to get round this sort of thing as there stand is as just as much a dump as Tynie, they seem to be getting a safety certificate for there stand or is every club in Scotland with rickety old stands bribing there councilor's to pass there old stands safe.

Yes the Savilledome is a dump but they must be meeting requirements that makes it pass this safety certificate, no one in there right mind from the council or fire brigade would be daft enough to pass it safe if it wasn't and ruin there own life by telling lies and the life's of others.

[Kato]

I don't work for the council so I can't answer for them. I can only assume hearts repaired what was needed back then and have done yearly repairs to make sure it's safe enough for football fans to attend!

In the run up to both stands being declared unsafe and the letters being issued both clubs had made adjustments and repairs, things like widen the exit stairs, season upon season. The letters acknowledged the works done but said no more safety work on the existing stands could be done which would render them safe.

I don't blame Hibs for knocking the old one down in that case as given the history of obstinacy by the council on most dealings with Hibs we could well have come a cropper. I also don't blame Hearts for ignoring it as given the history of compliance between them and the council it's obvious they could just carry on.



Are you saying you think hearts have had some sort of back handers and certificates given just because you think EC have a few Jambos?

Why would I say that on a public forum? It's not a case of me "thinking" they have a few Jambos, it's true. Even one Celtic supporting councilor had a season ticket for tynie as he wanted "keep the natives happy".

Someone else below has described how their cosy relationship works and given when the one time they messed up with Hibs and illegally gave over the Lochend Butterfly to someone else then nothing happened in the way of disciplinary action I think it obvious there is some bias there.


On the topic of the trams I was on a stag with one of the head guys that done the contract. They hired a German firm for it and the messed the council about big time! Started asking for more money for metal etc and just kept increasing it. If the council stopped there and then they would have had to pay the company the original fee along with starting again. Now the EC are suing them and there will be a public enquiry about the way the council were backed into a corner!


Poor, poor council!! Blaming the Germans seems good sense but it will never stand up, or maybe it will the way they been destroying evidence since about 2008.

Allegedly there has been skimming going on since the project started and it has, again allegedly, nothing to do with the Germans and everything to do with unnecessary "exploratory" works being carried out again and again. Money goes into the hands of the road diggers and split with EC people, bloke in pub told me that so it might be rubbish, allegedly. Just like it might be rubbish that the allegations of scaffold companies going halves on their rent with council employees/elected officials - scaffold going up far too early and coming down months after work completed but the rent being paid for it by houdeholders, allegedly. Still they got caught with the Compulsory Repairs dodge and we all saw justice done, i.e. no criminal charges at all


For the record I still think the trams are a waste of space and money!

The trams are fine but we never ever pay for them given the incompetence and, alleged, criminal behaviour of certain parties.

[Bostonhibby]

So for the last 15 years or so the Council, Fire Brigade and other bodies involved have just been turning a blind eye to the state of that stand and know it is unsafe and god forbid if there was a fire or the stand collapsed they will be happy to have that on there conscious for the rest of there life, it is 2014 and if the stand was not safe for purpose it would have been closed down by now, it is safe to say that the stand is safe or it wouldn't get the safety certificate, Council Fire brigade, Electrician, Gas company and who ever else it takes to get it passed safe have said nothing all theses years, no chance, they (yams) must be doing what is required to get things passed by all parties, FFS we are talking about a stand that holds over 1000 people and folk high up in places in Edinburgh are just buying that the past or present owners of this stand just because they are submitting or talking about moving/building a new stand would have still been waiting to see what happens, once again, no chance, it would have been closed down by now no matter who was dealing with it.

Was Partick Thistles main stand not closed down for a bit or limited to so many folk being allowed in the stand at one time, now the whole stand is open for away fans, Thistle reps must no folk in Glasgow council to get round this sort of thing as there stand is as just as much a dump as Tynie, they seem to be getting a safety certificate for there stand or is every club in Scotland with rickety old stands bribing there councilor's to pass there old stands safe.

Yes the Savilledome is a dump but they must be meeting requirements that makes it pass this safety certificate, no one in there right mind from the council or fire brigade would be daft enough to pass it safe if it wasn't and ruin there own life by telling lies and the life's of others.

:agree: And they wouldn't get the necessary public liability insurance easily either - its still a wreck of a stadium but whatever the minimum standard is they seem to bounce along at that level quite happily - I do have a feeling that the Local authority might have been a bit more liberal with the enforcement notices if (god forbid) Hibs were playing in a stadium of this standard, but refusing to shut it down when it should be is another matter.

[Jim44]

If truth be told I sometimes get a bit bored with this 'Jambo' thing, but then I always come round to thinking that the issue has to be kept 'live'. If we ceased to debate it, they are so deluded and morally unaware, that they would regard our silence and indifference as some kind of twisted amelioration of and justification for their club's dishonesty and vile behaviour.

[Kato]

So for the last 15 years or so the Council, Fire Brigade and other bodies involved have just been turning a blind eye to the state of that stand and know it is unsafe and god forbid if there was a fire or the stand collapsed they will be happy to have that on there conscious for the rest of there life, it is 2014 and if the stand was not safe for purpose it would have been closed down by now, it is safe to say that the stand is safe or it wouldn't get the safety certificate, Council Fire brigade, Electrician, Gas company and who ever else it takes to get it passed safe have said nothing all theses years, no chance, they (yams) must be doing what is required to get things passed by all parties, FFS we are talking about a stand that holds over 1000 people and folk high up in places in Edinburgh are just buying that the past or present owners of this stand just because they are submitting or talking about moving/building a new stand would have still been waiting to see what happens, once again, no chance, it would have been closed down by now no matter who was dealing with it.


You might be right. If that's the case then Hibs must have mugged into knocking the old stand down and spending all that money on a new one as after both clubs were told neither stand would be issued with another certificate, no matter the amount of safety work carried out, Hearts ignored it and were issued one anyway whilst Hibs felt the council were serious and complied.

The council letters are the issue for me, not whether it is safe or not now.

[Kato]

If truth be told I sometimes get a bit bored with this 'Jambo' thing, but then I always come round to thinking that the issue has to be kept 'live'. If we ceased to debate it, they are so deluded and morally unaware, that they would regard our silence and indifference as some kind of twisted amelioration of and justification for their club's dishonesty and vile behaviour.

I just don't like them, but that doesn't mean I'm paranoid or have a biased view towards them. These issues are real, did happen and in some way or another will be ongoing. That American CE the council employed a few years back said on his resignation that he was sick of "decisions being made depending on what football team you supported or what religion you were." It's the parochialism and small time outlook I don't like most.

[Ozyhibby]

Tynecastle costs a fortune to maintain. The longer they are there the better.
It's up to us to start making any advantage we have from our new stadium start to count. So far, under Petrie we have not done so.

[Bostonhibby]

Tynecastle costs a fortune to maintain. The longer they are there the better.
It's up to us to start making any advantage we have from our new stadium start to count. So far, under Petrie we have not done so.

:agree:

[lapsedhibee]

In the run up to both stands being declared unsafe and the letters being issued both clubs had made adjustments and repairs, things like widen the exit stairs, season upon season. The letters acknowledged the works done but said no more safety work on the existing stands could be done which would render them safe.

I don't blame Hibs for knocking the old one down in that case as given the history of obstinacy by the council on most dealings with Hibs we could well have come a cropper. I also don't blame Hearts for ignoring it as given the history of compliance between them and the council it's obvious they could just carry on.




Why would I say that on a public forum? It's not a case of me "thinking" they have a few Jambos, it's true. Even one Celtic supporting councilor had a season ticket for tynie as he wanted "keep the natives happy".

Someone else below has described how their cosy relationship works and given when the one time they messed up with Hibs and illegally gave over the Lochend Butterfly to someone else then nothing happened in the way of disciplinary action I think it obvious there is some bias there.




Poor, poor council!! Blaming the Germans seems good sense but it will never stand up, or maybe it will the way they been destroying evidence since about 2008.

Allegedly there has been skimming going on since the project started and it has, again allegedly, nothing to do with the Germans and everything to do with unnecessary "exploratory" works being carried out again and again. Money goes into the hands of the road diggers and split with EC people, bloke in pub told me that so it might be rubbish, allegedly. Just like it might be rubbish that the allegations of scaffold companies going halves on their rent with council employees/elected officials - scaffold going up far too early and coming down months after work completed but the rent being paid for it by houdeholders, allegedly. Still they got caught with the Compulsory Repairs dodge and we all saw justice done, i.e. no criminal charges at all



The trams are fine but we never ever pay for them given the incompetence and, alleged, criminal behaviour of certain parties.


You might be right. If that's the case then Hibs must have mugged into knocking the old stand down and spending all that money on a new one as after both clubs were told neither stand would be issued with another certificate, no matter the amount of safety work carried out, Hearts ignored it and were issued one anyway whilst Hibs felt the council were serious and complied.

The council letters are the issue for me, not whether it is safe or not now.


I just don't like them, but that doesn't mean I'm paranoid or have a biased view towards them. These issues are real, did happen and in some way or another will be ongoing. That American CE the council employed a few years back said on his resignation that he was sick of "decisions being made depending on what football team you supported or what religion you were." It's the parochialism and small time outlook I don't like most.

:agree: That's the way it all looks.

[Waxy]

Tynecastle costs a fortune to maintain. The longer they are there the better.
It's up to us to start making any advantage we have from our new stadium start to count. So far, under Petrie we have not done so.
This is it. They are for the taking now the have to live within their means.Their old stadium will just become more and more of a burden. Nevermind what's happening at the moment, in a few years we'll be in the top league and above them.

[brog]

I don't believe there's any deliberate skulduggery with regard to the old stand at PBS but neither do I think it's safe. After a really bad experience there about 15/20 years ago I said never again & also banned all my family from going there. My main concerns are about the ability to evacuate the stand. I'm also a bit surprised at the naivety of some netters. Accidents & tragedies happen in supposedly safe & regulated environments & afterwards you always hear that it was an accident waiting to happen. I genuinely hope we never have to say something similar about the PBS.

[Thecat23]

In the run up to both stands being declared unsafe and the letters being issued both clubs had made adjustments and repairs, things like widen the exit stairs, season upon season. The letters acknowledged the works done but said no more safety work on the existing stands could be done which would render them safe.

I don't blame Hibs for knocking the old one down in that case as given the history of obstinacy by the council on most dealings with Hibs we could well have come a cropper. I also don't blame Hearts for ignoring it as given the history of compliance between them and the council it's obvious they could just carry on.




Why would I say that on a public forum? It's not a case of me "thinking" they have a few Jambos, it's true. Even one Celtic supporting councilor had a season ticket for tynie as he wanted "keep the natives happy".

Someone else below has described how their cosy relationship works and given when the one time they messed up with Hibs and illegally gave over the Lochend Butterfly to someone else then nothing happened in the way of disciplinary action I think it obvious there is some bias there.




Poor, poor council!! Blaming the Germans seems good sense but it will never stand up, or maybe it will the way they been destroying evidence since about 2008.

Allegedly there has been skimming going on since the project started and it has, again allegedly, nothing to do with the Germans and everything to do with unnecessary "exploratory" works being carried out again and again. Money goes into the hands of the road diggers and split with EC people, bloke in pub told me that so it might be rubbish, allegedly. Just like it might be rubbish that the allegations of scaffold companies going halves on their rent with council employees/elected officials - scaffold going up far too early and coming down months after work completed but the rent being paid for it by houdeholders, allegedly. Still they got caught with the Compulsory Repairs dodge and we all saw justice done, i.e. no criminal charges at all



The trams are fine but we never ever pay for them given the incompetence and, alleged, criminal behaviour of certain parties.

I don't think what ever I or anyone else says is going to make you think otherwise. Every company has shifty folk in it including the council but in no way is that the reason it's still open as it would have to pass more than just them. So let's agree to disagree!

You seem to think I'm sticking up for the council on the tram subject I'm not. I offered you an explanation from someone involved, I'm sure the German company may offer a different story and I'd actually like to hear it. For me both parties are to blame but hopefully with a public enquiry we will get some answers at least but I'll not hold my breath.

The trams may well be fine but they are not at all needed! So in that case it's a waste of money. We have one of the best bus services in Europe never mind UK so why congest our roads with these pointless metal tubes? Edinburgh was built around the use of horse and cart, we barely get by with cars and busses so for me I'll never use a tram and the novelty will wear off soon enough! Unless your visiting the city and may want a 20 min pointless ride to the airport!


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[tamig]

You have been misinformed, the fault of the trams fiasco lies at Edinburgh City Councils door. The German company given the contract told the council they needed the wate
r gas electricity ect moved to one side of the road as the tram lines require to be built on solid ground and also for any possible inconvenience when works are necessary on these services. The council was given 18 months to carry out this enabling work, they failed to do it. When the Germans pitched up they found that they were on down time from day one. They were stunned to discover that the enabling works hadn't been carried out and this set off a chain of delays and penalties which we have now become familiar with. The enquiry may find that putting a couple of folk from the social work department with no experience of the construction industry in charge of such a major development wasn't their finest decision. The council is a den of chancers and amateurs from top to bottom. I wouldn't let them run a school nativity play, they would Dress Mary as Herod and would put someone from the statutory housing repairs fiasco in charge of stable and mainger maintenance
Well said FF. An absolute sham from beginning to end. They wanted to run the show themselves instead of hiring experts - who had offered their services - who' been there and done it before. A scandal of huge proportions.

[Bostonhibby]

Well said FF. An absolute sham from beginning to end. They wanted to run the show themselves instead of hiring experts - who had offered their services - who' been there and done it before. A scandal of huge proportions.

I know and trust an Edinburgh lawyer who has worked on similar (but not this one) contracts and he was quite open about saying that the chat in related legal circles is that the actual contracts were drawn up in such a way that if major delays occurred over access / delivery that were in the councils control the main contractor were able to collect big payments whilst effectively doing nothing but waiting for the council to do their bit - said it was seen as a "bit of a one sided contract - boys against men". Just sharing info!

Agree re the quality and standard of Edinburghs bus service - anyone that comes up with me cant believe how good it is - trams have the feel of a bit of ego massaging for the politicos to me and not value for money in terms of whats been delivered at the cost and inconvenience.

[tamig]

I know and trust an Edinburgh lawyer who has worked on similar (but not this one) contracts and he was quite open about saying that the chat in related legal circles is that the actual contracts were drawn up in such a way that if major delays occurred over access / delivery that were in the councils control the main contractor were able to collect big payments whilst effectively doing nothing but waiting for the council to do their bit - said it was seen as a "bit of a one sided contract - boys against men". Just sharing info!

Agree re the quality and standard of Edinburghs bus service - anyone that comes up with me cant believe how good it is - trams have the feel of a bit of ego massaging for the politicos to me and not value for money in terms of whats been delivered at the cost and inconvenience.
Lothian Buses have won numerous annual awards for being the best bus provider in the UK. What possessed Burns - sure he was the transport convener at the time - and co to come up with the hair brained proposal that trams were a good idea just beggars belief to me. Edinburgh is a compact city and buses are just fine. Wait until we see the impact of a couple of tram breakdowns. It will be chaos.

[silverhibee]

You might be right. If that's the case then Hibs must have mugged into knocking the old stand down and spending all that money on a new one as after both clubs were told neither stand would be issued with another certificate, no matter the amount of safety work carried out, Hearts ignored it and were issued one anyway whilst Hibs felt the council were serious and complied.

The council letters are the issue for me, not whether it is safe or not now.

Soft touches. :greengrin

[fat freddy]

Lothian Buses have won numerous annual awards for being the best bus provider in the UK. What possessed Burns - sure he was the transport convener at the time - and co to come up with the hair brained proposal that trams were a good idea just beggars belief to me. Edinburgh is a compact city and buses are just fine. Wait until we see the impact of a couple of tram breakdowns. It will be chaos.

As I recall, the trams were decided upon as a way of the council fulfilling 'green' criteria with regards to reducing carbon emissions within the public transport system. At the time there was pressure on all local authorities to come up with ways of preventing pollution and some halfwit who had visited Sheffield and seen their trams suggested we follow their lead despite the fact that our city had the best bus service in Britain. Mass delusion and political vanity sealed the deal and we all know the rest...

[Thecat23]

As I recall, the trams were decided upon as a way of the council fulfilling 'green' criteria with regards to reducing carbon emissions within the public transport system. At the time there was pressure on all local authorities to come up with ways of preventing pollution and some halfwit who had visited Sheffield and seen their trams suggested we follow their lead despite the fact that our city had the best bus service in Britain. Mass delusion and political vanity sealed the deal and we all know the rest...

That's exactly what I don't get! How folk would think we needed trams with the bus service we have. A lot of my family stay down south and when they come here to visit they can't believe how efficient our LRT service is. It was a waste of time then and and waste of time now.

Does anyone on here think that now we have them they actually improve traveling in the city? Or should I say from the Airport to York Place!! As another poster said, first time one breaks down it's going to be gridlock.

[greenginger]

That's exactly what I don't get! How folk would think we needed trams with the bus service we have. A lot of my family stay down south and when they come here to visit they can't believe how efficient our LRT service is. It was a waste of time then and and waste of time now.

Does anyone on here think that now we have them they actually improve traveling in the city? Or should I say from the Airport to York Place!! As another poster said, first time one breaks down it's going to be gridlock.


Yeah, but you've got to remember all the gongs and awards these visionaries dreamed they be getting.

[Thecat23]

Yeah, but you've got to remember all the gongs and awards these visionaries dreamed they be getting.

Good point!!


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[Sprouleflyer]

Hmmmmm, what's the trams got to do with Hearts accounts?

Talk about a thread hijack! :greengrin

[blackpoolhibs]

Couple my mates still sit in it. I've never sat in the stand and have no intention of sitting in it. But it's like saying anything that's old and made of wood is dangerous. With smoking band at games the risk of a fire is very low. The electrics will have been checked over and I'm sure the stand would have to pass certain safely regulations from not just EC but other sporting bodies.

I'm not saying it's perfect far from it. But do I think it's safe to hold Hearts fans? Yes I do.


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Sorted that for you. :aok:

[Ozyhibby]

People moan about the trams but still return Labour to run the city. It's like when we all moaned about the Iraq war then voted Tony Blair back in. :-(

[brog]

People moan about the trams but still return Labour to run the city. It's like when we all moaned about the Iraq war then voted Tony Blair back in. :-(

I don't really want to continue with the hijacking of this thread but history has been rewritten with regard to the Iraq war. No party opposed the war on principle. At Westminster, the Lib Dems, SNP & 138 Labour MP's voted against going to war without a further UN mandate. When Tommy Sheridan proposed an anti-war vote ( on principle ) in the Scottish Parliament, he received only 5 votes in support.

[CropleyWasGod]

People moan about the trams but still return Labour to run the city. It's like when we all moaned about the Iraq war then voted Tony Blair back in. :-(
Jenny Dawe was the trams mistress, wasn't she? The LibDems took a kicking at the last Council elections, presumably because of the trams.

[Ozyhibby]

Jenny Dawe was the trams mistress, wasn't she? The LibDems took a kicking at the last Council elections, presumably because of the trams.

The Lib Dems only got in after the trams were approved.

[emerald green]

[/B]
I don't really want to continue with the hijacking of this thread but history has been rewritten with regard to the Iraq war. No party opposed the war on principle. At Westminster, the Lib Dems, SNP & 138 Labour MP's voted against going to war without a further UN mandate. When Tommy Sheridan proposed an anti-war vote ( on principle ) in the Scottish Parliament, he received only 5 votes in support.

:agree: It's called selective memory syndrome.

[lord bunberry]

That's exactly what I don't get! How folk would think we needed trams with the bus service we have. A lot of my family stay down south and when they come here to visit they can't believe how efficient our LRT service is. It was a waste of time then and and waste of time now.

Does anyone on here think that now we have them they actually improve traveling in the city? Or should I say from the Airport to York Place!! As another poster said, first time one breaks down it's going to be gridlock.
The tram has already broken down a few times. I believe it takes longer to get to the airport than the airport bus.

[Lucius Apuleius]

It is obvious a wooden stand decking is not as safe as a concrete stand decking, but how less safe do you want something to be before the club are forced to comply with the notice they received to replace their stand.

They have been using delaying tactics for nearly 15 years, we are moving/ we have plans for a new stand. Now Budge has joined the game by talking about moving again.

The very least the Council should do is reduce the stand capacity significantly and force them to rebuild or move.

As for the trams, I think the single biggest cost increase was for moving services under the tram route. The Council employed a company that had never done that kind of work before and estimated at less than a quarter of the final cost.

Of course a proper cost estimate would never seen the tram project get to first base.

Berger had plenty experience moving utilities. Having been involved with them for many years I could have told the council that they make their money from change orders to the original contracts.

[tamig]

Jenny Dawe was the trams mistress, wasn't she? The LibDems took a kicking at the last Council elections, presumably because of the trams.

Burns was behind the idea in his role of transport convener. Now the leader of the council.

[greenginger]

Berger had plenty experience moving utilities. Having been involved with them for many years I could have told the council that they make their money from change orders to the original contracts.


Yeah, there were changes. Because half the services that required moving were not listed on the survey the council commissioned.

Berger could not be expected to cover the cost of of additional work not in the original contract. The reason the work was not included is something for the inquiry to discover. My monies on deliberate omission , but the inquiry will fudge it .

[Lucius Apuleius]

Yeah, there were changes. Because half the services that required moving were not listed on the survey the council commissioned.

Berger could not be expected to cover the cost of of additional work not in the original contract. The reason the work was not included is something for the inquiry to discover. My monies on deliberate omission , but the inquiry will fudge it .

Totally agree. Berger were not at fault and their efficiency is not in question. They are masters at finding loopholes that require change orders. Poor contract writing by the council as far as I can see.

[CropleyWasGod]

Totally agree. Berger were not at fault and their efficiency is not in question. They are masters at finding loopholes that require change orders. Poor contract writing by the council as far as I can see.

Isn't it often the way that, when public bodies are dealing with private concerns, their lack of commercial nous lets them down? IMO, for the trams, read "the Millennium Dome" or "Holyrood." One might also add the Statutory Repairs nonsense to that list.

[Lucius Apuleius]

Isn't it often the way that, when public bodies are dealing with private concerns, their lack of commercial nous lets them down? IMO, for the trams, read "the Millennium Dome" or "Holyrood." One might also add the Statutory Repairs nonsense to that list.

Absolutely. The question has to be asked why though.Should they not have specialists look at a job before writing a contract and then again to make sure everything that needs doing is included. It ids a huge dose of incompetence to me if the council never thought of including moving the utilities when writing the contract and scope of work.

[greenginger]

Absolutely. The question has to be asked why though.Should they not have specialists look at a job before writing a contract and then again to make sure everything that needs doing is included. It ids a huge dose of incompetence to me if the council never thought of including moving the utilities when writing the contract and scope of work.


If the total cost of moving the utilities had been budgeted from the start ,the project would never have got funding in the first place.

The Council knew this, so proceeded with a half-cocked scheme that they knew could not be abandoned once it was underway.

[greenginger]

Isn't it often the way that, when public bodies are dealing with private concerns, their lack of commercial nous lets them down? IMO, for the trams, read "the Millennium Dome" or "Holyrood." One might also add the Statutory Repairs nonsense to that list.


You can add Hampden Park to that list. That dump cost the same as the Millenium Stadium in Cardiff.

[Lucius Apuleius]

If the total cost of moving the utilities had been budgeted from the start ,the project would never have got funding in the first place.

The Council knew this, so proceeded with a half-cocked scheme that they knew could not be abandoned once it was underway.

If true then the council deserve everything they get.

[silverhibee]

Can you take your tram talk elsewhere please.

This has nowt to do with football and hertz accounts fae Barry the yam man. :cb

[Aldo]

You can add Hampden Park to that list. That dump cost the same as the Millenium Stadium in Cardiff.

The main stand at at Hampdump cost in the region of £52 million to build whilst the Millennium Stadium in total was in the region of £70 million.

The SFA made a huge error of judgement not bulldozing what the had and starting afresh!!

Embarrassment of a national stadium IMHO!!

[hibees 7062]

Can you take your tram talk elsewhere please.

This has nowt to do with football and hertz accounts fae Barry the yam man. :cb

Nae need :greengrin

[tamig]

The main stand at at Hampdump cost in the region of £52 million to build whilst the Millennium Stadium in total was in the region of £70 million.

The SFA made a huge error of judgement not bulldozing what the had and starting afresh!!

Embarrassment of a national stadium IMHO!!
The whole scheme was lazily planned when they simply decided to concrete the east and west stands behind the goals - retaining the huge track. A big error of judgement by the SFA.