The New Scottish Labour branch office manager is...

[Moulin Yarns]

Announced at 10:30 this morning.

[Moulin Yarns]

My guess is Jim Murphy won't have egg on his face.

[Pretty Boy]

Reckon it will be Murphy.

He's a heavyweight but does anyone like him? I just can't see him saving the Labour vote in the short to medium term.

[Glory Lurker]

Hoping for Murphy/Dugdale.

[Moulin Yarns]

here they come. Looks like a packed hall, about 50 supporters and the same number of press.

[Pretty Boy]

Kezia Dugdale as deputy.

[Moulin Yarns]

Assistant branch manager to be announced first.

[Pretty Boy]

65%+ of the vote. Clark/Findlay was a joint ticket so must mean Murphy has won the leadership contest?

[Moulin Yarns]

Dugdale elected assistant branch manager.

[Moulin Yarns]

1 round of votes required.

Murphy it is.

[Pretty Boy]

And it's Murphy.

[Moulin Yarns]

The new 'leader' of the Labour party in Scotland sits in Westminster, will he now resign and stand for Holyrood?

[Glory Lurker]

The least surprising thing to happen in Scottish politics ever!

[Pretty Boy]

Hell of a lot of work for them to do in a short time. Poll this week showed the SNP 20 points ahead and Labour have a lot of disgruntled core voters. I don't really understand the appointment of a Blairite when the SNP have had so much success with 'psuedo left' policies but Scottish Labour has been utterly baffling for a long while.

[s.a.m]

The new 'leader' of the Labour party in Scotland sits in Westminster, will he now resign and stand for Holyrood?

I think that's what Alex Salmond did when he was re-elected leader of the SNP. Don't think he did it straight away though, and I think he might have done both MP and MSP jobs at the same time for a while.:dunno:

[GlesgaeHibby]

Perfect pairing. Murphy as one of the most detested money grabbing career politicians out there, and Dugdale doesn't even understand the powers that are within the control of the Scottish Parliament.

[degenerated]

Kezia Dugdale as deputy.
I read somewhere that prior to joining Labour she was rejected in an application she made to work for snp, wonder if that's why she's so bitter.

[GlesgaeHibby]

Wonder what the voter turnout was, will be interesting to give an idea of number of scottish labour membership figures.

[Glory Lurker]

I think that's what Alex Salmond did when he was re-elected leader of the SNP. Don't think he did it straight away though, and I think he might have done both MP and MSP jobs at the same time for a while.:dunno:


Yes, I think that's what happened.

It seems to be assumed that Murphy will run for Holyrood in 2016, but I do wonder if Murphy would prefer not to - in any of the unionist parties, Holyrood is a backwards step. Murphy is pretty much the model career politician so I wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't switch to Holyrood.

[Glory Lurker]

Wonder what the voter turnout was, will be interesting to give an idea of number of scottish labour membership figures.


:agree: For that reason, I bet it'll just be kept in percentages!

[Moulin Yarns]

:agree: For that reason, I bet it'll just be kept in percentages!


Talking of percentages

Murphy got 55%, the opposition got 45%. Many in Scotland must know that means he actually lost. :greengrin

[lord bunberry]

Talking of percentages

Murphy got 55%, the opposition got 45%. Many in Scotland must know that means he actually lost. :greengrin

I blame the bbc :greengrin

[heretoday]

The trouble is that anyone with any sort of charisma in Labour is inevitably tainted by association with Blair. This guy certainly is.

Good for him for stepping up to the plate though. He's the candidate Sturgeon would least have wanted and if he does enter Holyrood we can look forward to some lively debates which the place badly needs.

[hibsbollah]

Labour just took one further step away from me. I still feel of them as 'my' party but I can't see myself voting for them in the foreseeable future. Sad.

[lucky]

Gutted with the results Scotland is moving left wards but Labour members took a step to the right. My own Union voted for Findlay by 66% to 31% on a 21% turnout. But Labour members clearly believe that Murphy can turn around their fortunes

[DaveF]

Gutted with the results Scotland is moving left wards but Labour members took a step to the right. My own Union voted for Findlay by 66% to 31% on a 21% turnout. But Labour members clearly believe that Murphy can turn around their fortunes

Didn't quite catch the imagination I assume :greengrin

Unless that's a typo, must be quite worrying to see such apathy?

[RIP]

Labour just took one further step away from me. I still feel of them as 'my' party but I can't see myself voting for them in the foreseeable future. Sad.

After the GE in May a new Scottish Labour Movement is going to be launched. I'm sure you, I and many others will find a home there

[marinello59]

I read somewhere that prior to joining Labour she was rejected in an application she made to work for snp, wonder if that's why she's so bitter.

Tasmina Ahmed-Sheikh? :greengrin

[Glory Lurker]

After the GE in May a new Scottish Labour Movement is going to be launched. I'm sure you, I and many others will find a home there

Why wait, though? If Labour does well in the election, might that change things? IMHO, Labour in Scotland has defied logic in the way it has drifted to the right over the years without a schism. It's the equivalent of the SNP saying "independence isn't a good idea", and the party holding together nonetheless.

[hibsbollah]

Why wait, though? If Labour does well in the election, might that change things? IMHO, Labour in Scotland has defied logic in the way it has drifted to the right over the years without a schism. It's the equivalent of the SNP saying "independence isn't a good idea", and the party holding together nonetheless.

I think its the collective fault of everyone on the left that has allowed this to happen. As you say, there's been no schism, or a putsch, that has allowed Labour to become the gross irrelevance they are today. Just lots of inaction or misplaced action since Blair and Philip Gould decided to form a new party in their own image. They got power but the consequence is they destroyed the whole idea of the party. And nobody really did anything to stop it.

[Phil D. Rolls]

Is Dugdale the one that told Nicola Sturgeon the three things she had to do when she took office? IIRC the three things were all reserved to Westminster.

Scottish Labour have a leader who doesn't sit at Holyrood, and a deputy leader who doesn't know what Holyrood does. Another step towards independence then.

[lord bunberry]

Is Dugdale the one that told Nicola Sturgeon the three things she had to do when she took office? IIRC the three things were all reserved to Westminster.

Scottish Labour have a leader who doesn't sit at Holyrood, and a deputy leader who doesn't know what Holyrood does. Another step towards independence then.

It was Dugdale that said that. Labour have shot themselves in the foot again imo.

[Phil D. Rolls]

It was Dugdale that said that. Labour have shot themselves in the foot again imo.

And she'll be their leader at Holyrood?

[lord bunberry]

And she'll be their leader at Holyrood?

She will. The leader of the opposition doesn't know the powers she hopes to one day be in control off.

[RIP]

There is no time to set up a new Scottish Labour Movement's in 5 months. However now that the neo-liberalist hawk has been elected branch manager the STUC members will start to coalesce behind a new left movement.

[Pretty Boy]

It will be interesting to see how Murphys neo centre right approach does against the softly, nicey centre right Scottish Tories with their popular leader.

Polling seems very confused. One snap poll yesterday showed the SNP on 47%, Labour on 24% and the Tories on 16%. The Labour percentage was unchanged, so the leadership contest and announcement saw no bounce. On the flip side a poll last week had the SNP lead at as little as 4 points.

[Phil D. Rolls]

This says Labour only has 7000 members in Scotland. That can't be right can it? That's less than the Greens.

http://wingsoverscotland.com/inching-towards-the-truth/

[lucky]

Didn't quite catch the imagination I assume :greengrin

Unless that's a typo, must be quite worrying to see such apathy?

The 21% will be highest out of the affiliates but your right apathy was the winner

[lucky]

This says Labour only has 7000 members in Scotland. That can't be right can it? That's less than the Greens.

http://wingsoverscotland.com/inching-towards-the-truth/

Labour figures are not known publicly as they haven't been published in the last 4 years. But 1000 joined after the referendum and another 1200 in the leadership campaign which takes it to over 15000

[Phil D. Rolls]

Labour figures are not known publicly as they haven't been published in the last 4 years. But 1000 joined after the referendum and another 1200 in the leadership campaign which takes it to over 15000

Does that include the 6000 or so social members who don't vote?

[Moulin Yarns]

Does that include the 6000 or so social members who don't vote?

More to the point, does it take into account those who left in the run up to the referendum and post referendum. I know a few in Perthshire.

[hibsbollah]

This says Labour only has 7000 members in Scotland. That can't be right can it? That's less than the Greens.

http://wingsoverscotland.com/inching-towards-the-truth/

390,000 People in the UK describe themselves as being Jedi, according to the last census. Assuming Scots are equally represented as the rest of the UK in this figure, there are over 5 times as many Jedis in Scotland than Labour Party members.

[degenerated]

Is Dugdale the one that told Nicola Sturgeon the three things she had to do when she took office? IIRC the three things were all reserved to Westminster.

Scottish Labour have a leader who doesn't sit at Holyrood, and a deputy leader who doesn't know what Holyrood does. Another step towards independence then.
It's truly bizarre that they think this pair are the answers to all their problems.

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/12/14/2e5654095935a5f940937e2a56ab1f8d.jpg
http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/12/14/09455f6d7fff0c5533471a73ba05f1cf.jpg

[ballengeich]

There's something about the tone and enthusiasm for life in Jim Murphy's voice that reminds me of the Rev I M Jolly.

[Phil D. Rolls]

390,000 People in the UK describe themselves as being Jedi, according to the last census. Assuming Scots are equally represented as the rest of the UK in this figure, there are over 5 times as many Jedis in Scotland than Labour Party members.

They need to start making inroads into that vote.


There's something about the tone and enthusiasm for life in Jim Murphy's voice that reminds me of the Rev I M Jolly.

As Doddie once put it, every time you see Murphy you suspect there's a funeral missing a corpse.

[Phil D. Rolls]

It's truly bizarre that they think this pair are the answers to all their problems.

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/12/14/2e5654095935a5f940937e2a56ab1f8d.jpg
http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/12/14/09455f6d7fff0c5533471a73ba05f1cf.jpg

Dugdale looks like she'd be just the person to read the People's Friend and eat individual strawberry trifles.

[marinello59]

Gutted with the results Scotland is moving left wards but Labour members took a step to the right. My own Union voted for Findlay by 66% to 31% on a 21% turnout. But Labour members clearly believe that Murphy can turn around their fortunes

I don't think Scotland is moving leftwards. I think we are like the rest of the UK and the old left and right debate is meaningless. It's all about the centre ground now and every party including the SNP is aiming to occupy it.

[lord bunberry]

390,000 People in the UK describe themselves as being Jedi, according to the last census. Assuming Scots are equally represented as the rest of the UK in this figure, there are over 5 times as many Jedis in Scotland than Labour Party members.

Is the plural of Jedi, jedis? :greengrin

[hibsbollah]

Is the plural of Jedi, jedis? :greengrin

We should be told :agree: especially if they are to hold the balance of power.

[Beefster]

It will be interesting to see how Murphys neo centre right approach does against the softly, nicey centre right Scottish Tories with their popular leader.

I quite like Ruth Davidson (and by extension the Scottish Tories) but won't vote for them because I don't like the UK/Westminster party. I'm much more likely to vote Labour after Murphy winning and I suspect that, despite what is posted on here, I won't be alone.

It's been demonstrated recently that hibs.net tends to be massively out of sync with what the country actually thinks so I wouldn't take all the Private Eye mock-Soviet chat on here about Murphy being a capitalist lick-spittle too seriously.

[overdrive]

I quite like Ruth Davidson (and by extension the Scottish Tories) but won't vote for them because I don't like the UK/Westminster party. I'm much more likely to vote Labour after Murphy winning and I suspect that, despite what is posted on here, I won't be alone.

It's been demonstrated recently that hibs.net tends to be massively out of sync with what the country actually thinks so I wouldn't take all the Private Eye mock-Soviet chat on here about Murphy being a capitalist lick-spittle too seriously.

Pretty much where I'm at. Now Salmond is taking a back seat, Davidson is probably the best politician in Scotland but I'm not a fan of the Conservatives at Westminster. They (Labour) will probably get my vote at the General Election. In terms of the Scottish Parliament, if there was an election coming up, the Conservatives would be getting my list vote, my constituency vote would be up for grabs. I actually think the SNP have done a decent job running the Scottish Government. I just don't agree with independence or their policies on Trident.

[lord bunberry]

We should be told :agree: especially if they are to hold the balance of power.

Agreed. Are there any Jedi/jedis on here?

[DaveF]

I quite like Ruth Davidson (and by extension the Scottish Tories) but won't vote for them because I don't like the UK/Westminster party. I'm much more likely to vote Labour after Murphy winning and I suspect that, despite what is posted on here, I won't be alone.

It's been demonstrated recently that hibs.net tends to be massively out of sync with what the country actually thinks so I wouldn't take all the Private Eye mock-Soviet chat on here about Murphy being a capitalist lick-spittle too seriously.

I assume then you approve of the UK Labour party as it stands? I must admit to finding that surprising, given their slapstick handling of the economy last time out.

[RIP]

I don't think Scotland is moving leftwards. I think we are like the rest of the UK and the old left and right debate is meaningless. It's all about the centre ground now and every party including the SNP is aiming to occupy it.

I've never seen our politics any more different than other parts of the UK during my lifetime. At the time that Thatcher's policies were being lapped up in London most areas of Scotland rejected it. However other than a bit more union militancy and an effective antipoll tax campaign, Scottish resistance has been muted by a dominant Scottish Labour Party dancing to the Head Office tune.

What I think we are now seeing in our country is the demise of interest in Westminster party politics with all its expense-fiddling, rent-claiming, paedo-hiding, tax-dodging incumbents. The majority of Scots reject the inequalities that have arisen out of UK politics and want to see a more equal society, North of the border.

Many Scots are striving to reject the jaded "Me-first" philosophy expounded by Thatcher and Blair during the past 35 years. Once a majority of Scots can agree on the ethical goals of society then we then need to put pressure on party politicians to help us deliver that vision. We can achieve this change through a citizens movement promoted through the new media estate being established after the referendum. What will emerge later this year is a broad alliance of church, charities, anti-war, anti-poverty and community action groups taking on the political mainstream.

The terminology will not be about left and right - it will focus on differentiating between right and wrong.

[Beefster]

I assume then you approve of the UK Labour party as it stands? I must admit to finding that surprising, given their slapstick handling of the economy last time out.

I don't mind them is about accurate. Miliband is a bit of a liability but they have a lot of decent politicians and ideas. They also don't have anywhere near as big a lunatic/nasty element either, if at all.

[Future17]

Agreed. Are there any Jedi/jedis on here?

I am not the Jedi you are looking for.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

Agreed. Are there any Jedi/jedis on here?

I'll go and have a quick Luke!

[Future17]

Is Murphy "shuffling" his shadow cabinet not a bit like someone moving the furniture around in a house they rent out? :confused:

[lord bunberry]

Is Murphy "shuffling" his shadow cabinet not a bit like someone moving the furniture around in a house they rent out? :confused:

Or a teacher telling the kids where to sit whilst she's out the classroom.

[ronaldo7]

Murphy seems to be treading the path decided by London. Snubbing his own MSP's

http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/scottish-politics/murphy-snubs-labour-appeal-for-cross-party-bid-to-save-rescue-centre.26133743

[JeMeSouviens]

I don't think Scotland is moving leftwards. I think we are like the rest of the UK and the old left and right debate is meaningless. It's all about the centre ground now and every party including the SNP is aiming to occupy it.

:agree:

There's an argument that Scottish politics has moved at least semi-permanently from a left-right argument to a Yes-No one.

[JeMeSouviens]

I think Murphy expects (and hopes) to put up a decent show against the SNP but ultimately lose and get back to his real objective, Westminster's greasy pole.

Since he had been effectively sidelined by Ed and Dougie Alexander, being here suits him for the moment. Keeps his profile up, keeps him out of Ed's inevitable failure. Plus I think he has a strategy that's not been picked up on much yet: to switch Westminster seats. I don't think an MP representing a Scottish constituency will find it possible to get to any of the great UK offices of state in future, far less be PM. So give up E Renfrew, hide out in Holyrood for a while, lose the good fight and then find a nice wee safe seat in Englandshire for the next phase of the rise and rise of the Mighty Murph.

Remember, he has exactly 2 politicial priorites: "Jim" and "Murphy".

[hibsbollah]

:agree:

There's an argument that Scottish politics has moved at least semi-permanently from a left-right argument to a Yes-No one.

But the left-right paradigm is still the most accurate way of measuring people's belief systems. In our case, a lot of people voted Yes primarily because they wanted more left wing policies than is possible when being represented by the Westminster parties. Independence is a means to an end.

[hibsbollah]

I don't mind them is about accurate. Miliband is a bit of a liability but they have a lot of decent politicians and ideas. They also don't have anywhere near as big a lunatic/nasty element either, if at all.

I've just noticed this post.

Weve all read each others posts for a few years now and have a pretty good idea of how we stand politically. I hope you don't mind me pigeonholing you as on the right of the political spectrum, probably centre right. The fact that you find a lot to admire in 'Red' Ed's Labour shows quite clearly the distance Labour has travelled away from its roots, and how someone like me really has no political consumer choice anymore. If a voter believes in continued austerity, continued private sector monopoly of assets and the silent hand of the market you have at least three fairly similar parties to choose from. But I guess that doesn't make you feel any more democratically Represented than I do.

Merry Christmas :greengrin

[marinello59]

But the left-right paradigm is still the most accurate way of measuring people's belief systems. In our case, a lot of people voted Yes primarily because they wanted more left wing policies than is possible when being represented by the Westminster parties. Independence is a means to an end.

Where's the evidence for this? The SNP's North east heartlands were natural Tory country before and people's beliefs haven't changed that much. The SNP weren't really offering more left wing policies than anybody else and I don't think the various Socialist parties will be making a major breakthrough any time soon.

[hibsbollah]

Where's the evidence for this? The SNP's North east heartlands were natural Tory country before and people's beliefs haven't changed that much. The SNP weren't really offering more left wing policies than anybody else and I don't think the various Socialist parties will be making a major breakthrough any time soon.

Nothing more scientific than lots of people I spoke to from different walks of life, in terms of evidence.

[Pretty Boy]

Where's the evidence for this? The SNP's North east heartlands were natural Tory country before and people's beliefs haven't changed that much. The SNP weren't really offering more left wing policies than anybody else and I don't think the various Socialist parties will be making a major breakthrough any time soon.

I think sometimes a lot of people actually think they are far more left wing than they are. There's a reason the Tories used to do very well in Scotland until the brand became toxic and why many of those who rejected the Tories switched to the then far-more-right-wing-than-they-are-now SNP.

ITV had a programme on a few years ago where a series of actors 'campaigned' based on various politcal parties manifestos, the twist was they didn't say which party they were representing, and at the end the audience both in attendance and at home voted accordingly. The idea was to see what influence media coverage and what we thought others would think had on our voting behaviour. The landslide winner of this 'experiment'? The BNP.

[hibsbollah]

I think sometimes a lot of people actually think they are far more left wing than they are. There's a reason the Tories used to do very well in Scotland until the brand became toxic and why many of those who rejected the Tories switched to the then far-more-right-wing-than-they-are-now SNP

I don't disagree with that. But I do think that in terms of care for the elderly, free school provision, austerity vs investment, opposition to nuclear weapons, the minimum wage etc etc, Scottish voters have consistently backed policies and parties that have more traditional 'left' manifestos than is the case further South. Conversely, Immigration is barely an issue here, in Kent it is the only talk in town.

[Moulin Yarns]

http://voteforpolicies.org.uk/

vote for policies, rather than parties survey and see who you really support. :thumbsup:

[Pretty Boy]

http://voteforpolicies.org.uk/

vote for policies, rather than parties survey and see who you really support. :thumbsup:

33.3% Labour, 33.3% Green and 33.3% Lib Dem.

I'm not really surprised

[ronaldo7]

75% Green 25% Lib ****ing Dems

[lord bunberry]

100% snp but I didn't take the survey. :wink:

[Hibrandenburg]

I think sometimes a lot of people actually think they are far more left wing than they are. There's a reason the Tories used to do very well in Scotland until the brand became toxic and why many of those who rejected the Tories switched to the then far-more-right-wing-than-they-are-now SNP.

ITV had a programme on a few years ago where a series of actors 'campaigned' based on various politcal parties manifestos, the twist was they didn't say which party they were representing, and at the end the audience both in attendance and at home voted accordingly. The idea was to see what influence media coverage and what we thought others would think had on our voting behaviour. The landslide winner of this 'experiment'? The BNP.

That can't be right, we've been told often enough by NO voters on here that the media has no influence on how people vote.

[Hibrandenburg]

I think sometimes a lot of people actually think they are far more left wing than they are. There's a reason the Tories used to do very well in Scotland until the brand became toxic and why many of those who rejected the Tories switched to the then far-more-right-wing-than-they-are-now SNP.

ITV had a programme on a few years ago where a series of actors 'campaigned' based on various politcal parties manifestos, the twist was they didn't say which party they were representing, and at the end the audience both in attendance and at home voted accordingly. The idea was to see what influence media coverage and what we thought others would think had on our voting behaviour. The landslide winner of this 'experiment'? The BNP.

That can't be right, we've been told often enough by NO voters on here that the media has no influence on how people vote.

[Future17]

100% snp but I didn't take the survey. :wink:

The SNP aren't even in the survey yet!

[Beefster]

I've just noticed this post.

Weve all read each others posts for a few years now and have a pretty good idea of how we stand politically. I hope you don't mind me pigeonholing you as on the right of the political spectrum, probably centre right. The fact that you find a lot to admire in 'Red' Ed's Labour shows quite clearly the distance Labour has travelled away from its roots, and how someone like me really has no political consumer choice anymore. If a voter believes in continued austerity, continued private sector monopoly of assets and the silent hand of the market you have at least three fairly similar parties to choose from. But I guess that doesn't make you feel any more democratically Represented than I do.

Merry Christmas :greengrin

You're probably right about Labour. I was a fan of Blair and, whilst I don't like them as much, don't mind this lot either. I wouldn't vote for a 'traditional' Labour Party though.

As for my beliefs, I'm centre right on tax, spending and a few other things but I'm pro-Europe and immigration, which is one of the reasons that I'm not a natural Tory (despite how I'm probably considered on here!).

Merry Christmas!

[lord bunberry]

The SNP aren't even in the survey yet!

That's why I didnt take the test.

[hibsbollah]

You're probably right about Labour. I was a fan of Blair and, whilst I don't like them as much, don't mind this lot either. I wouldn't vote for a 'traditional' Labour Party though.

As for my beliefs, I'm centre right on tax, spending and a few other things but I'm pro-Europe and immigration, which is one of the reasons that I'm not a natural Tory (despite how I'm probably considered on here!).

Merry Christmas!

A Hibby Kenneth Clarke :agree:

[RyeSloan]

A Hibby Kenneth Clarke :agree:

Could think of a lot worse things to call Beefster ;-)

[IWasThere2016]

You're probably right about Labour. I was a fan of Blair and, whilst I don't like them as much, don't mind this lot either. I wouldn't vote for a 'traditional' Labour Party though.

As for my beliefs, I'm centre right on tax, spending and a few other things but I'm pro-Europe and immigration, which is one of the reasons that I'm not a natural Tory (despite how I'm probably considered on here!).

Merry Christmas!

Very similar to myself. I voted YES - knowing I would never get a right of centre Gov - but that our people would get what they wanted eg not a Tory Gov or UKIP on the rise etc.. bizarre how we try to pigeon hole each other politically but many seem to do this!

[Future17]

That's why I didnt take the test.

Likewise.