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Scooter
09-12-2014, 07:31 AM
I seen a tweet by the sun this morning that sir tom farmer is in talks with the bank to make hibs debt free. Anyone else see/hear anything about that

Slicer
09-12-2014, 07:41 AM
Can anyone paste the story up?

Www1875hfc
09-12-2014, 07:46 AM
http://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/scotsol/homepage/sport/spl/hibernian/6166446/Hibs-debt-deal.html?CMP=spklr-120321425-Editorial-TWITTER-scotsunsport-20141209-News

TowerHibs
09-12-2014, 07:48 AM
Refuse to get a subscription for that rag but search the tweet

EXCLUSIVE

By DEREK McGREGOR

Published: 6 hrs ago

SIR TOM FARMER is closing in on a deal with Hibs’ bankers to make the club debt-free.

SunSport*understands the owner is keen to strike a compromise agreement to wipe out £9 million owed by the Championship club. Farmer would shell out a significant seven-figure sum to secure the club’s long-term future beyond his lifetime.

Oscar T Grouch
09-12-2014, 07:59 AM
Great news if true.

Benny Brazil
09-12-2014, 08:02 AM
Wow - that would be good - wonder where that would then leave BuyHibs proposals

Thecat23
09-12-2014, 08:19 AM
That would be superb if he managed to do this. For all the criticism I've gave him, if he can get us debt free then he deserves all the credit he can get!

Peevemor
09-12-2014, 08:22 AM
Wow - that would be good - wonder where that would then leave BuyHibs proposals

Their proposals? Where would that leave their raison-d'être?

Viva_Palmeiras
09-12-2014, 08:23 AM
So who are Hibs' bankers - I said "bankers"!? (Serious question)

bingo70
09-12-2014, 08:24 AM
That would be superb if he managed to do this. For all the criticism I've gave him, if he can get us debt free then he deserves all the credit he can get!

Being debt free would be great and he'd certainly deserve credit for that but I'd rather have a football team doing well in the top division with a £9m debt.

I don't want to turn this into a negative as it's clearly not a bad thing, I just hope folk don't go getting carried away with balance sheets again.

The owners of our club have got us in a right old mess on the park, if they're doing something about it now then great but that doesn't mean the criticism they've had up to now has been wrong.

Viva_Palmeiras
09-12-2014, 08:25 AM
That would be superb if he managed to do this. For all the criticism I've gave him, if he can get us debt free then he deserves all the credit he can get!

No pun intended ;)

Thecat23
09-12-2014, 08:25 AM
No pun intended ;)

[emoji16]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Peevemor
09-12-2014, 08:27 AM
Being debt free would be great and he'd certainly deserve credit for that but I'd rather have a football team doing well in the top division with a £9m debt.

I don't want to turn this into a negative as it's clearly not a bad thing, I just hope folk don't go getting carried away with balance sheets again.

The owners of our club have got us in a right old mess on the park, if they're doing something about it now then great but that doesn't mean the criticism they've had up to now has been wrong.

:rolleyes:

Viva_Palmeiras
09-12-2014, 08:29 AM
Being debt free would be great and he'd certainly deserve credit for that but I'd rather have a football team doing well in the top division with a £9m debt.

I don't want to turn this into a negative as it's clearly not a bad thing, I just hope folk don't go getting carried away with balance sheets again.

The owners of our club have got us in a right old mess on the park, if they're doing something about it now then great but that doesn't mean the criticism they've had up to now has been wrong.

Correct mismanagement of EM which was supposed to give us a competitive advantage has thrown away a good slice of that advantage only now do we seem to be getting to grips with the resources at our disposal.

Mikey
09-12-2014, 08:30 AM
Someone brought this up in the chatbox a couple of weeks ago. He was pretty adamant it was being worked on.

Billy Whizz
09-12-2014, 08:31 AM
Someone brought this up in the chatbox a couple of weeks ago. He was pretty adamant it was being worked on.

Was on kickback yesterday😄

Pretty Boy
09-12-2014, 08:33 AM
Does this qualify as debt forgiveness in the same sense as what BuyHibs were talking about? Obviously STF is still shelling out a wedge if the report is to be believed but it reads like it will be a compromised/reduced balance. Did a few not argue that was unprecedented? Is this STFs influence at work or something else.

Genuine questions btw not just stirring the pot.

Lee Marvin
09-12-2014, 08:35 AM
If true, this would be almost the best news we could get. Also, if true, nobody could put a negative spin on it.

Surely....... :)

Thecat23
09-12-2014, 08:36 AM
Maybe he's trying to clear the debt so that if he does sell it will leave the new owners in a healthy position to put funds straight into the squad?

HUTCHYHIBBY
09-12-2014, 08:40 AM
That would be superb if he managed to do this. For all the criticism I've gave him, if he can get us debt free then he deserves all the credit he can get!

It's impossible to argue with that, I'm sure someone'll try though.

GordonHFC
09-12-2014, 08:40 AM
If true, this would be almost the best news we could get. Also, if true, nobody could put a negative spin on it.

Surely....... :)

Aye right 😁

Ronniekirk
09-12-2014, 08:53 AM
Maybe he's trying to clear the debt so that if he does sell it will leave the new owners in a healthy position to put funds straight into the squad?
Hopefully he has picked up on the debates on here about some fans feeling we need to know more about future planning and succession etc and he is looking to come to the next AGM with some good news on debt reduction and possible options going forward

Brightside
09-12-2014, 08:53 AM
I seen a tweet by the sun this morning that sir tom farmer is in talks with the bank to make hibs debt free. Anyone else see/hear anything about that

Surely not... Ive read on here that he;s been screwing the club over for years....

Thecat23
09-12-2014, 08:53 AM
Being debt free would be great and he'd certainly deserve credit for that but I'd rather have a football team doing well in the top division with a £9m debt.

I don't want to turn this into a negative as it's clearly not a bad thing, I just hope folk don't go getting carried away with balance sheets again.

The owners of our club have got us in a right old mess on the park, if they're doing something about it now then great but that doesn't mean the criticism they've had up to now has been wrong.

They did get us in a mess and they do deserve the criticism, but to clear us of £9m and start fresh would be unreal and they would deserve all the praise for doing so.

I'd rather start with a clean slate and build on it than be a top flight club and have a massive debt hanging over us that could well cripple the club one day.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Caversham Green
09-12-2014, 08:53 AM
Does this qualify as debt forgiveness in the same sense as what BuyHibs were talking about? Obviously STF is still shelling out a wedge if the report is to be believed but it reads like it will be a compromised/reduced balance. Did a few not argue that was unprecedented? Is this STFs influence at work or something else.

Genuine questions btw not just stirring the pot.

It would be exactly the sort of thing BuyHibs were looking for - I would imagine that the bank debt (Bank of Scotland/HBOS/Lloyds, VivaPalmeiras) would disappear and a smaller amount owed to STF would replace it in the balance sheet.

It's not unprecedented - Killie, Dundee United and Aberdeen appear to have done something similar, but I've argued that Hibs were less likely to get the same treatment because of the personal guarantees. Hopefully I'm wrong.

This may also explain the delay in the accounts/AGM so that a full announcement of the debt forgiveness and its effect on the finances of the club can be made. The next question is whether it can be backdated to appear in the accounts to 31 July 2014 so that the club can show a healthy profit for Mr Petrie's last season in charge. On the face of it I would say no, but I wouldn't be surprised if they were investigating the possibility.

Thecat23
09-12-2014, 08:55 AM
Hopefully he has picked up on the debates on here about some fans feeling we need to know more about future planning and succession etc and he is looking to come to the next AGM with some good news on debt reduction and possible options going forward

Could well be right, he must know the fans are wanting to know what he is going to do with the club and this would be a huge step forward if he manages to wipe it out.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Benny Brazil
09-12-2014, 09:00 AM
Their proposals? Where would that leave their raison-d'être?

:greengrin
Think thats what I was trying to say - without being so blunt :greengrin

Peevemor
09-12-2014, 09:02 AM
It would be exactly the sort of thing BuyHibs were looking for - I would imagine that the bank debt (Bank of Scotland/HBOS/Lloyds, VivaPalmeiras) would disappear and a smaller amount owed to STF would replace it in the balance sheet.


Although the purchase price could legitimately be a lot higher.

Blaster
09-12-2014, 09:03 AM
You would think he should be concentrating on more important things like food banks

cabbageandribs1875
09-12-2014, 09:04 AM
i'm sure killie did something like this recently with their bankers, the bank had two choices, agree a deal on reducing/wiping the debt or collect a few pennies if they went into administration.....or sommit like that:greengrin

Brightside
09-12-2014, 09:07 AM
You would think he should be concentrating on more important things like food banks

and maybe ruining the Xmas of orphans.

Caversham Green
09-12-2014, 09:12 AM
Although the purchase price could legitimately be a lot higher.

The BuyHibs proposals were unclear as to how the debt would be treated - on the one hand they wanted only the assets transferred into a newco but on the other they talked about negotiating debt forgiveness. Either way, obtaining the assets with lower or no debt should certainly cost them more than taking on the full debt. More than ever, this makes their decision to decline a meeting with the board look very foolish.

Andy74
09-12-2014, 09:12 AM
As I've said in the BH thread I think it would be different for us with the banks. Restructuring or personal repayment yes I could see happening but no bank would accept a write off from us at the moment. We are ultimately good for it.

Brightside
09-12-2014, 09:17 AM
As I've said in the BH thread I think it would be different for us with the banks. Restructuring or personal repayment yes I could see happening but no bank would accept a write off from us at the moment. We are ultimately good for it.

It will be STF taking on the debt...outwith of HFC.

Peevemor
09-12-2014, 09:17 AM
As I've said in the BH thread I think it would be different for us with the banks. Restructuring or personal repayment yes I could see happening but no bank would accept a write off from us at the moment. We are ultimately good for it.

Unless STF used some other form of leverage, ie. the threat of moving other funds invested in the same bank.

lyonhibs
09-12-2014, 09:18 AM
I'm no expert, but if a debt forgiveness deal is agreed would that mean stiffing small business creditors a la Jambos, or would this purely be between Hibs and The Bank? (whichever one we bank with).

If it's the latter, then crack on and it would be fantastic news. If the former then we should be looking at other solutions IMO.

Caversham Green
09-12-2014, 09:22 AM
As I've said in the BH thread I think it would be different for us with the banks. Restructuring or personal repayment yes I could see happening but no bank would accept a write off from us at the moment. We are ultimately good for it.

I was saying pretty much the same thing, so if it's true I'll be interested to see how it pans out.

BTW, to some extent we have our pink and blue (and orange) chums to thank for this - the bank has seen other banks getting sod all from the cheating clubs and fear the honourable ones doing the same so they're cashing in their chips now - thanks lads.

And the debt is not £9m - it's less than £7m.

3pm
09-12-2014, 09:22 AM
Goes to show you that none of us truly know what goes on behind closed doors!

3pm
09-12-2014, 09:24 AM
I was saying pretty much the same thing, so if it's true I'll be interested to see how it pans out.

BTW, to some extent we have our pink and blue (and orange) chums to thank for this - the bank has seen other banks getting sod all from the cheating clubs and fear the honourable ones doing the same so they're cashing in their chips now - thanks lads.

And the debt is not £9m - it's less than £7m.

Is the majority of that mortgages on the stands?

CropleyWasGod
09-12-2014, 09:24 AM
I'm no expert, but if a debt forgiveness deal is agreed would that mean stiffing small business creditors a la Jambos, or would this purely be between Hibs and The Bank? (whichever one we bank with).

If it's the latter, then crack on and it would be fantastic news. If the former then we should be looking at other solutions IMO.

It would only be the bank.

s.a.m
09-12-2014, 09:24 AM
I'm no expert, but if a debt forgiveness deal is agreed would that mean stiffing small business creditors a la Jambos, or would this purely be between Hibs and The Bank? (whichever one we bank with).

If it's the latter, then crack on and it would be fantastic news. If the former then we should be looking at other solutions IMO.

I don't think we're in any debt to small businesses - I think it's all in the form of loans and mortgages. We're repaying these loans and our other bills as they fall due, whereas Hearts had run out of money / debt provision, and were running up debt to umpteen businesses and organisations. I agree with you that stiffing small businesses when you have other options is unacceptable.

Caversham Green
09-12-2014, 09:25 AM
I'm no expert, but if a debt forgiveness deal is agreed would that mean stiffing small business creditors a la Jambos, or would this purely be between Hibs and The Bank? (whichever one we bank with).

If it's the latter, then crack on and it would be fantastic news. If the former then we should be looking at other solutions IMO.


Just the bank. The real difference is that it's an entirely voluntary arrangement that leaves both sides satisfied rather than just telling the creditors and charities they're not getting the money they're due.

Caversham Green
09-12-2014, 09:26 AM
Is the majority of that mortgages on the stands?

It's all mortgages on the stadium and land as a whole.

lord bunberry
09-12-2014, 09:27 AM
As I've said in the BH thread I think it would be different for us with the banks. Restructuring or personal repayment yes I could see happening but no bank would accept a write off from us at the moment. We are ultimately good for it.

I'm assuming we'll make a fairly substantial loss this year and next year. If we don't get promoted that could be 3 years of heavy losses! Maybe the bank is looking at us and thinking now is the time to get what they can.

Sergio sledge
09-12-2014, 09:29 AM
In real terms how much would this free up annually to put into the playing squad? (what are the annual repayments on the mortgages currently?)

CropleyWasGod
09-12-2014, 09:34 AM
In real terms how much would this free up annually to put into the playing squad? (what are the annual repayments on the mortgages currently?)

In the last accounts, the interest payments were £132k for the year.

Don't know about the capital, but from the Balance Sheet it looks like we reduced it by £372k.

In total, on that basis, we paid the bank about £500k.

Hibby D
09-12-2014, 09:34 AM
If true, this would be almost the best news we could get. Also, if true, nobody could put a negative spin on it.

Surely....... :)

Someone already managed that before you posted :wink:


Someone else will be along soon to claim Santa doesn't exist, just watch :greengrin

greenginger
09-12-2014, 09:35 AM
It's all mortgages on the stadium and land as a whole.


Debt to parent company, plus we have not seen last years figures yet. They will be horrendous !

scotia44
09-12-2014, 09:36 AM
It would only be the bank.



Don't think it would be stiffing anyone as the Banks don't have to do anything IF they are in negotiations its clearly a 2 way thing between STF & the bank

Stiffing is not to pay which is slightly different from negotiating an out that could be beneficial to both parties

Caversham Green
09-12-2014, 09:36 AM
In real terms how much would this free up annually to put into the playing squad? (what are the annual repayments on the mortgages currently?)

£370k in loan repayments and about £135k in interest, so a wee it more than half a mill.

Forza Fred
09-12-2014, 09:36 AM
I'm assuming we'll make a fairly substantial loss this year and next year. If we don't get promoted that could be 3 years of heavy losses! Maybe the bank is looking at us and thinking now is the time to get what they can.

Maybe, but they will also be aware that football clubs will get into debt again, so perhaps credit will be hard to come by.

Don't think there is a football club in Scotland that is not in some kind of debt.

Would be excellent to wipe the slate clean thorough.

Weststandwanab
09-12-2014, 09:37 AM
Their proposals? Where would that leave their raison-d'être?

Oh Matron.... but a fair quesion


If true, this would be almost the best news we could get. Also, if true, nobody could put a negative spin on it.

Surely....... :)

Someone will - Pia would be my first shout.


It would be exactly the sort of thing BuyHibs were looking for - I would imagine that the bank debt (Bank of Scotland/HBOS/Lloyds, VivaPalmeiras) would disappear and a smaller amount owed to STF would replace it in the balance sheet.

It's not unprecedented - Killie, Dundee United and Aberdeen appear to have done something similar, but I've argued that Hibs were less likely to get the same treatment because of the personal guarantees. Hopefully I'm wrong.

This may also explain the delay in the accounts/AGM so that a full announcement of the debt forgiveness and its effect on the finances of the club can be made. The next question is whether it can be backdated to appear in the accounts to 31 July 2014 so that the club can show a healthy profit for Mr Petrie's last season in charge. On the face of it I would say no, but I wouldn't be surprised if they were investigating the possibility.

Categorically not ! The accounts could refer to it in the notes to the accounts under a Post Balance Sheet event i.e something that happened after the year end but would materially affect the accounts, and even if it was possible to back date this it would have no impact on profit unless it was a total write off of the debt to the Banks. Swapping debt from Banks to STF has no profit effect.


i'm sure killie did something like this recently with their bankers, the bank had two choices, agree a deal on reducing/wiping the debt or collect a few pennies if they went into administration.....or sommit like that:greengrin

Not going to happen here because of the substantial assets held by The Club.


I'm no expert, but if a debt forgiveness deal is agreed would that mean stiffing small business creditors a la Jambos, or would this purely be between Hibs and The Bank? (whichever one we bank with).

If it's the latter, then crack on and it would be fantastic news. If the former then we should be looking at other solutions IMO.

No effect to the creditors except those doing the "forgiving" i.e. the Bank(s).

Sergio sledge
09-12-2014, 09:41 AM
In the last accounts, the interest payments were £132k for the year.

Don't know about the capital, but from the Balance Sheet it looks like we reduced it by £372k.

In total, on that basis, we paid the bank about £500k.

Thanks, that's a pretty significant amount. If Motherwell take Butcher and Co. Off our wage bill, it'll be an excellent Christmas with around £1m freed up from our current budget to be used elsewhere, or reduce our projected loss this season.....

Caversham Green
09-12-2014, 09:42 AM
Debt to parent company, plus we have not seen last years figures yet. They will be horrendous !

The debt that's being negotiated down is only going to be the bank debt and that won't have gone up last season. I'm not sure the accounts for last season will be as bad as some are predicting - they will include the uptake in season tickets from the 2013 cup final, although other income will be substantially down.

blackpoolhibs
09-12-2014, 09:42 AM
If STF was to leave us debt free by clearing the debt, it would be a fantastic gesture. I would say he should have ran the club better and not had it run by Petrie into the position it is now though.

If he's going to do this then great, and if so then he's surely going to let the club go to someone else. My worry iss its to this buyhibs lot, i was not STF's biggest fan over the last few years but this lot do not fill me with any confident they would do ANY better.

Aldo
09-12-2014, 09:48 AM
Could well be right, he must know the fans are wanting to know what he is going to do with the club and this would be a huge step forward if he manages to wipe it out. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

This may indeed the major topic at the AGM??

Would be excellent if true!!

Caversham Green
09-12-2014, 09:53 AM
Categorically not ! The accounts could refer to it in the notes to the accounts under a Post Balance Sheet event i.e something that happened after the year end but would materially affect the accounts, and even if it was possible to back date this it would have no impact on profit unless it was a total write off of the debt to the Banks. Swapping debt from Banks to STF has no profit effect.


I'm pretty sure it won't affect last season's numbers, but there is reported to be a degree of forgiveness and the amount of debt written off would appear in the P&L and produce a profit. Also there's an argument (not a good one though) that the accounts should accurately show the amount that the club is committed to pay in the future - showing debt of £7m when the club is only going to pay (say) £2m doesn't do that. As a director I would try to make that argument but as an auditor I'd tell them to do one. If the argument takes place the auditor will win.

Caversham Green
09-12-2014, 09:56 AM
If STF was to leave us debt free by clearing the debt, it would be a fantastic gesture. I would say he should have ran the club better and not had it run by Petrie into the position it is now though.

If he's going to do this then great, and if so then he's surely going to let the club go to someone else. My worry iss its to this buyhibs lot, i was not STF's biggest fan over the last few years but this lot do not fill me with any confident they would do ANY better.

To be fair they've said they're not interested in running the club but they intend to put someone in who will make better football decisions. Someone like Leeann Dempster and George Craig would be ideal.

BSEJVT
09-12-2014, 10:20 AM
As I've said in the BH thread I think it would be different for us with the banks. Restructuring or personal repayment yes I could see happening but no bank would accept a write off from us at the moment. We are ultimately good for it.

Whilst your comments are absolutely accurate Andy there are other forces at work.

All football debt is provided for as a Bad Debt in the Banks Accounts.

Therefore anything they get back it pure profit.

Hoddit and Doddit who are now running LBG are interested in one thing and one thing only and that is boosting profits by whatever means possible, hence the break up of the Banks other assets, so they can recommence dividend payments to shareholders.

I would think they would be gagging to accept such a deal, they have absolutely no regard for the fact that playing the long game would get them more.

LBG is pretty much like a closing down sale on impaired debts with no offers to silly to consider.

Its fair to say I have been praying for something like this to happen.

GreenOnions
09-12-2014, 10:23 AM
Correct mismanagement of EM which was supposed to give us a competitive advantage has thrown away a good slice of that advantage only now do we seem to be getting to grips with the resources at our disposal.

I can't make up my mind whether that would be good or bad................... anyone?

Mikey
09-12-2014, 10:25 AM
£370k in loan repayments and about £135k in interest, so a wee it more than half a mill.

Plus the income from all the fans who (say they will) come back.

:tee hee:

ColintonHibs
09-12-2014, 10:38 AM
If true, this would be almost the best news we could get. Also, if true, nobody could put a negative spin on it.

Surely....... :)

Why not chuck in another 150k for griffiths ;)?

Turkish Green
09-12-2014, 10:57 AM
I'm no expert, but if a debt forgiveness deal is agreed would that mean stiffing small business creditors a la Jambos, or would this purely be between Hibs and The Bank? (whichever one we bank with).

If it's the latter, then crack on and it would be fantastic news. If the former then we should be looking at other solutions IMO.
This story is in The Sun so a large pinch of salt is needed.

Methinks STF is trying to go down the debt forgetfulness route as followed by Dundee Utd and Aberdeen but in their cases debt was juggled and their banks did not lose out. Hibs are in a different position as I believe it is STF himself that is negotiating with the bank rather than Hibs.

I will wait and see if there is any meat to this rumour.

Ozyhibby
09-12-2014, 11:03 AM
If this is true then I don't think the Bank will be getting stiffed at all. There is a good chance they have approached Hibs with the offer. They need cash in and have probably written down a lot of football debt.
There is a downside though, we won't be able to borrow again for a long time. Although it's likely that's the case for all football clubs anyway. So it's really only tiny downside.
This is good news.

Ozyhibby
09-12-2014, 11:04 AM
Plus the income from all the fans who (say they will) come back.

:tee hee:

Haven't heard any say they won't be back till the debt is gone?

CropleyWasGod
09-12-2014, 11:09 AM
This story is in The Sun so a large pinch of salt is needed.

Methinks STF is trying to go down the debt forgetfulness route as followed by Dundee Utd and Aberdeen but in their cases debt was juggled and their banks did not lose out. Hibs are in a different position as I believe it is STF himself that is negotiating with the bank rather than Hibs.

I will wait and see if there is any meat to this rumour.

That's where I am, TBH.

It wouldn't surprise me if the Sun lifted it from Kickback yesterday or, IIRC, from here last week.

worcesterhibby
09-12-2014, 11:11 AM
You would think he should be concentrating on more important things like food banks


:tee hee::tee hee:

Leithenhibby
09-12-2014, 11:15 AM
That's where I am, TBH.

It wouldn't surprise me if the Sun lifted it from Kickback yesterday or, IIRC, from here last week.

:agree:
Or it could just be a bit spin from the club :wink:

andrew70
09-12-2014, 11:43 AM
That's where I am, TBH.

It wouldn't surprise me if the Sun lifted it from Kickback yesterday or, IIRC, from here last week.

Whilst I agree it's still a complete rag, the Sun does seem to be getting a lot more Hibs stories of late. Kenny Millar et al seem to have very decent sources within the club. I know it wasn't him who wrote this story but I have noticed an increased coverage of Hibernian within the paper.

Let's hope there is substance to this story and hopefully more people will be more of understanding of the whole situation.

Mikey
09-12-2014, 11:49 AM
I've checked back and this story first appeared on here (in the chatbox) on 28th November. So it hasn't just come from yesterday's thread over the road.

Here's what was said......


XXXX: dunno if its been mentioned on the mb or pm board yet, my mate told me a while back that STF was talking to the bank about a deal on the debt
XXXX: said STF has agreed a deal to pay £1.872m to pay off the £5-6m debt, plus the bank gets a % of any transfer fee we get
XXXX: over £300k to the end of 2016.
XXXX: he told me no to post it on .net so I'm no puttin it in the forums
XXXX: my mate works at the bank

CropleyWasGod
09-12-2014, 11:54 AM
I've checked back and this story first appeared on here (in the chatbox) on 28th November. So it hasn't just come from yesterday's thread over the road.

Here's what was said......

Cheers for that.

brog
09-12-2014, 11:55 AM
Our 3 mortgages all have a variable interest rate so presumably are pretty low by now. However they won't be as low as interest on STF's money in the bank. I would like to ask our resident experts a couple of questions.
1. Could it be STF gets some debt forgiveness from the bank, say 50%, & he then charges Hibs the balance as a parent company loan at the rate we're currently being charged? Reduced debt for Hibs, increased income for STF though his potential future losses will be increased. Is such a scenario feasible?
2. I'm confused about the parent company debt. The loan is shown as £250k pa but we also have
" amounts due to parent company " (within 1 year) of £1.5m. When I originally looked at the a/c's I thought this was a cumulative increase (was £1.25m last year) but as both amounts are included under "creditors falling due within one year", I don't see how this is possible.
Enlightenment would be appreciated!

CropleyWasGod
09-12-2014, 12:04 PM
Our 3 mortgages all have a variable interest rate so presumably are pretty low by now. However they won't be as low as interest on STF's money in the bank. I would like to ask our resident experts a couple of questions.
1. Could it be STF gets some debt forgiveness from the bank, say 50%, & he then charges Hibs the balance as a parent company loan at the rate we're currently being charged? Reduced debt for Hibs, increased income for STF though his potential future losses will be increased. Is such a scenario feasible?
2. I'm confused about the parent company debt. The loan is shown as £250k pa but we also have
" amounts due to parent company " (within 1 year) of £1.5m. When I originally looked at the a/c's I thought this was a cumulative increase (was £1.25m last year) but as both amounts are included under "creditors falling due within one year", I don't see how this is possible.
Enlightenment would be appreciated!

1. Whilst I'm not doubting the source's information, I can't help thinking that there's more to this deal than what has been said. The debt-forgiveness is, apparently about 2/3, which is pretty special. There's the unused land at EM, for example, which might be a factor. The scenario you suggest might also work.

2. there are 2 types of debt relationships between the Club and the Holding Company. The "loan" is based on an agreement, like any loan, and has its set repayment terms. The other bit, "amounts due to parent company" is a so-called soft loan.... given where we're short of cash, since we don't have an overdraft, to be repaid when we do have the cash. I don't think we are charged interest on that.

stantonhibby
09-12-2014, 12:06 PM
His brother Colin works for Hibs now.

Gordon Smart the editor is a hibby which may also explain increased coverage

grunt
09-12-2014, 12:08 PM
XXXX: he told me no to post it on .net so I'm no puttin it in the forums
Just on the chat box! Haha!!

RSS Bot
09-12-2014, 12:10 PM
Hibs owner Sir Tom Farmer is close to striking a deal that would see the club’s debt wiped out, according to reports.




More... (http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sir-tom-farmer-nearing-hibs-debt-deal-1-3629264)

Caversham Green
09-12-2014, 12:16 PM
Our 3 mortgages all have a variable interest rate so presumably are pretty low by now. However they won't be as low as interest on STF's money in the bank. I would like to ask our resident experts a couple of questions.
1. Could it be STF gets some debt forgiveness from the bank, say 50%, & he then charges Hibs the balance as a parent company loan at the rate we're currently being charged? Reduced debt for Hibs, increased income for STF though his potential future losses will be increased. Is such a scenario feasible?
2. I'm confused about the parent company debt. The loan is shown as £250k pa but we also have
" amounts due to parent company " (within 1 year) of £1.5m. When I originally looked at the a/c's I thought this was a cumulative increase (was £1.25m last year) but as both amounts are included under "creditors falling due within one year", I don't see how this is possible.
Enlightenment would be appreciated!

Point 1 is certainly feasible. Assuming the reports are right I would expect the bank loans to be replaced by a smaller loan either from the parent company or STF personally. The interest rate on the current parent company loan (£250K) is 1.5% over base - i.e. 2%. A quick calculation suggests the rate on the bank loans is similar, which is a fair bit lower than normal. Whether STF chooses to charge interest on it remains to be seen.

On point two, the £1.5m is not officially a loan, it's a provision of working capital and is interest-free. The £250k is the butt-end of a long-standing parent company loan that has never been called in. The 'due within one year' bit is something of a red herring - it just means that there are no formal repayment terms in force, making them repayable on demand.

Kaiser1962
09-12-2014, 12:19 PM
It's all mortgages on the stadium and land as a whole.

Which most other clubs have still to address and deal with.

(edit for clarification; they still need to renovate or rebuild and go through the process we have been through)

IanM
09-12-2014, 12:21 PM
If STF was to leave us debt free by clearing the debt, it would be a fantastic gesture. I would say he should have ran the club better and not had it run by Petrie into the position it is now though.

If he's going to do this then great, and if so then he's surely going to let the club go to someone else. My worry iss its to this buyhibs lot, i was not STF's biggest fan over the last few years but this lot do not fill me with any confident they would do ANY better.

He probably will let the club go but we know how STF works, even shelling out to clear the debt only a fool would think he'd just hand over the club to whatever half brained consortium rocked up next (not meant as a dig at anyone who has asked the question before!)

if we become debt free the solution should be simple - lets all work together.

pretty sure it's not as simple as that! but would give most fans an air of optimism and renewed belief we're going in the right direct (if not out this league :greengrin)

so far in my 20 minutes on lunch i've seen we're looking at some young promising players and we might be going debt free.. pity about the french onion soup oi just got from the canteen though

Gordy M
09-12-2014, 12:22 PM
See this is the worry i have with fan ownership, this type of thing wouldnt be an option in the future should STF or another rich 'like minded' individual be involved. Thats why its important that we have 'money men' involved with the club in the future. I suppose the argument would be that we wouldnt be in this position in the future however there is no guarantee of that.

Beefster
09-12-2014, 12:22 PM
This busts a lot of the "only in it for the money" bull**** that we've been subjected to recently.

Tyler Durden
09-12-2014, 12:24 PM
As I've said in the BH thread I think it would be different for us with the banks. Restructuring or personal repayment yes I could see happening but no bank would accept a write off from us at the moment. We are ultimately good for it.

I take it you'll need an official statement before recognising you are wrong here.

brog
09-12-2014, 12:25 PM
Point 1 is certainly feasible. Assuming the reports are right I would expect the bank loans to be replaced by a smaller loan either from the parent company or STF personally. The interest rate on the current parent company loan (£250K) is 1.5% over base - i.e. 2%. A quick calculation suggests the rate on the bank loans is similar, which is a fair bit lower than normal. Whether STF chooses to charge interest on it remains to be seen.

On point two, the £1.5m is not officially a loan, it's a provision of working capital and is interest-free. The £250k is the butt-end of a long-standing parent company loan that has never been called in. The 'due within one year' bit is something of a red herring - it just means that there are no formal repayment terms in force, making them repayable on demand.

Thanks to you & CWG, I had forgotten the above.

Mikey
09-12-2014, 12:25 PM
If he's going to do this then great, and if so then he's surely going to let the club go to someone else. My worry iss its to this buyhibs lot......

No chance whatsoever.

Tyler Durden
09-12-2014, 12:26 PM
This story is in The Sun so a large pinch of salt is needed.

Methinks STF is trying to go down the debt forgetfulness route as followed by Dundee Utd and Aberdeen but in their cases debt was juggled and their banks did not lose out. Hibs are in a different position as I believe it is STF himself that is negotiating with the bank rather than Hibs.

I will wait and see if there is any meat to this rumour.

Im interested as to why people would assume that the bank didn't write off debt in the case of Utd, Killie or Aberdeen?

Andy74
09-12-2014, 12:27 PM
I take it you'll need an official statement before recognising you are wrong here.

Wrong about what?

brog
09-12-2014, 12:27 PM
Hibs owner Sir Tom Farmer is close to striking a deal that would see the club’s debt wiped out, according to reports.




More... (http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sir-tom-farmer-nearing-hibs-debt-deal-1-3629264)

This is just our local paper regurgitating the Sun story. The key phrase is, According to reports! I remember when the EN got all the scoops, now they feed off scraps.

NAE NOOKIE
09-12-2014, 12:27 PM
Good news if true. Does this finally mean we can fill in the corners?

Hibbyradge
09-12-2014, 12:35 PM
Hibs are in a different position as I believe it is STF himself that is negotiating with the bank rather than Hibs.

I will wait and see if there is any meat to this rumour.

Presumably then, there is substance to the rumour?

southsider
09-12-2014, 12:37 PM
Im interested as to why people would assume that the bank didn't write off debt in the case of Utd, Killie or Aberdeen?
Basically because these teams are broke whilst our major shareholder is worth xxx million. He basically was guarantor for the loans.

Alan62
09-12-2014, 12:38 PM
If anything, it sounds increasingly to me like Tom Farmer and Rod Petrie are doing what they always do: work quietly in the background to try to sort things out for the club. If Farmer's legacy is to be a debt-free club with all the infrastructure in place and held in trust for the Hibernian community, then he will have pulled off an absolute miracle.

Let's see what happens but this is certainly an interesting development.

HUTCHYHIBBY
09-12-2014, 12:42 PM
This story is in The Sun so a large pinch of salt is needed.

Methinks STF is trying to go down the debt forgetfulness route as followed by Dundee Utd and Aberdeen but in their cases debt was juggled and their banks did not lose out. Hibs are in a different position as I believe it is STF himself that is negotiating with the bank rather than Hibs.

I will wait and see if there is any meat to this rumour.

Is debt forgetfulness not what got HMFC into a spot of bother? ;-)

Gatecrasher
09-12-2014, 12:42 PM
This would be amazing if this happened and possible just the giant lift the whole clubs needs.

lord bunberry
09-12-2014, 12:44 PM
Im interested as to why people would assume that the bank didn't write off debt in the case of Utd, Killie or Aberdeen?

I think Killie sold their hotel to pay their debts, Dundee Utd fans paid theirs and a couple of Aberdeen fans who owned land that suddenly became really valuable paid theirs. I thought the bank had written off large parts of their debt as well but apparently not.

Caversham Green
09-12-2014, 12:47 PM
See this is the worry i have with fan ownership, this type of thing wouldnt be an option in the future should STF or another rich 'like minded' individual be involved. Thats why its important that we have 'money men' involved with the club in the future. I suppose the argument would be that we wouldnt be in this position in the future however there is no guarantee of that.

I think all Scottish football clubs will struggle to get any meaningful finance in the future but probably more so when they're fan-owned (therefore no guaranteed financial support) and a CIC (assets can't be called in without closing down the club).

The good news is that Hibs have done all the stuff that needs this sort of finance whereas our competitors haven't, meaning we just need to live within our means which we have been doing whilst our competitors haven't.

IanM
09-12-2014, 12:47 PM
This would be amazing if this happened and possible just the giant lift the whole clubs needs.

agree although I'd be surprised if it was as straight forward as it seems. Kenny McLean jnr saying STF will be looking gor £5million back off the fans

CropleyWasGod
09-12-2014, 12:50 PM
agree although I'd be surprised if it was as straight forward as it seems. Kenny McLean jnr saying STF will be looking gor £5million back off the fans

Where's he saying this?

More importantly, why? :)

Caversham Green
09-12-2014, 12:50 PM
agree although I'd be surprised if it was as straight forward as it seems. Kenny McLean jnr saying STF will be looking gor £5million back off the fans

If it's off the fans that would suggest the price he's willing to sell for.

CropleyWasGod
09-12-2014, 12:51 PM
If it's off the fans that would suggest the price he's willing to sell for.

... with the debt siginificantly reduced, which is what BH want. :cb

IanM
09-12-2014, 12:53 PM
Where's he saying this?

More importantly, why? :)

I had text a few of my hibs mates saying what I had read on here and one of my pals replied saying he spoke to Kenny 3 weeks ago and this is what he had told him. I don't know if what STF is doing now has changed mind but this is what was they were discussing back then.

I wish i understood it all better myself tbf - quite happy to let it ride out and see what comes of it

greenpaper55
09-12-2014, 12:56 PM
This is amazing news if it is true, if this was to happen before the next transfer window will we have the money to increase the squad and bring more quality in ?.

CropleyWasGod
09-12-2014, 12:59 PM
This is amazing news if it is true, if this was to happen before the next transfer window will we have the money to increase the squad and bring more quality in ?.

In annual terms, it would be worth about £500k.

That's a few decent players.

Greenblood70
09-12-2014, 01:02 PM
Fantastic news if true - and I can't think how something like this would be muted if it wasn't.

Will make the club a lot more of an attractive proposition to prospective buyers, I wonder if this is the first stages in a change of ownership over the medium term.

Tyler Durden
09-12-2014, 01:14 PM
Basically because these teams are broke whilst our major shareholder is worth xxx million. He basically was guarantor for the loans.

Except the latter point has not been confirmed at any stage

Tyler Durden
09-12-2014, 01:16 PM
I think Killie sold their hotel to pay their debts, Dundee Utd fans paid theirs and a couple of Aberdeen fans who owned land that suddenly became really valuable paid theirs. I thought the bank had written off large parts of their debt as well but apparently not.

Apparently not according to experts on here you mean

Tyler Durden
09-12-2014, 01:19 PM
Wrong about what?

The bank considering a write off as "we're good for it". Media reports and other quite detailed posts on here and JKB suggest otherwise.

But you have absolute conviction you are right of course.

CropleyWasGod
09-12-2014, 01:20 PM
The bank considering a write off as "we're good for it". Media reports and other quite detailed posts on here and JKB suggest otherwise.

But you have absolute conviction you are right of course.

To be fair, it does have the whiff of "too good to be true" about it. :greengrin

Fair play to STF if he's pulled it off, but the detail of it will be interesting.

Andy74
09-12-2014, 01:31 PM
The bank considering a write off as "we're good for it". Media reports and other quite detailed posts on here and JKB suggest otherwise.

But you have absolute conviction you are right of course.

I'm not sure why you are being quite so hostile to me on this point?

I've simply suggested that banks don't tend to just forgive debt that is being happily serviced.

Debt restructuring happens of course when that might be beneficial to the bank. The conversation on BuyHibs was that the expectation was that the bank would just allow us to ditch the debt. That won't happen.

We've yet to see any detail so I'm not sure why I would have been proven wrong in suggestion that it won't just get written off.

I do have some knowledge to base this on. I attend credit committee, executive committee, risk committee and on occasion the group board of a pretty major UK bank.

KeithTheHibby
09-12-2014, 01:38 PM
If the club essentially becomes debt free does that not make us more attractive to suitable and respectable buyers?

JimBHibees
09-12-2014, 01:40 PM
If the club essentially becomes debt free does that not make us more attractive to suitable and respectable buyers?

You would assume so if there are indeed any suitable and respectable buyers interested.

3pm
09-12-2014, 01:45 PM
Sky Sports now running the story. Luke Shanley on the now.

Mikey
09-12-2014, 01:46 PM
If the club essentially becomes debt free does that not make us more attractive to suitable and respectable buyers?

Does Richard Skellett fall into that category?......

Peevemor
09-12-2014, 01:50 PM
If the club essentially becomes debt free does that not make us more attractive to suitable and respectable buyers?

On paper, not really.

For example, with daft, made up, round figures.

Current situation
Value of club assets (ER, EM & whatever else) £20m
Debt £10m

Buyer can either buy the club debt free for £20m or with debt for £10m


After debt write-off thingy
Value of club assets (ER, EM & whatever else) £20m
Debt (to STF/holding company) say £5m

Buyer can either buy the club debt free for £20m or with debt for £15m

This is obviously very simplistic and takes no account of any goodwill/philanthropic gesture from STF (and RP for what it's worth).

Lago
09-12-2014, 01:52 PM
That would be superb if he managed to do this. For all the criticism I've gave him, if he can get us debt free then he deserves all the credit he can get!
He deserves a lot of credit irrespective of the outcome.

Thecat23
09-12-2014, 01:58 PM
He deserves a lot of credit irrespective of the outcome.

I wouldn't go that far. He hasn't ran the club that well for many years now. If he did we wouldn't be where we are. Im glad he bought us when he did but there was other buyers as well that were waiting in case it fell through.


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Lago
09-12-2014, 02:07 PM
I wouldn't go that far. He hasn't ran the club that well for many years now. If he did we wouldn't be where we are. Im glad he bought us when he did but there was other buyers as well that were waiting in case it fell through.


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I really think he was a little too hands off and was content to let others manage the business on his behalf which, on hind sight was a mistake.

Thecat23
09-12-2014, 02:11 PM
I really think he was a little too hands off and was content to let others manage the business on his behalf which, on hind sight was a mistake.

I agree, he neglected the club by leaving it to someone who has zero football experience. The same man who still won't step away even though his presence here has turned fans away.

Anyway back on topic, it would be great for the club to be debt free and finally start to work within a proper budget under what I hope new owners!


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Lago
09-12-2014, 02:15 PM
I agree, he neglected the club by leaving it to someone who has zero football experience. The same man who still won't step away even though his presence here has turned fans away.

Anyway back on topic, it would be great for the club to be debt free and finally start to work within a proper budget under what I hope new owners!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Totally agree, roll on that day!!

CropleyWasGod
09-12-2014, 02:17 PM
I agree, he neglected the club by leaving it to someone who has zero football experience. The same man who still won't step away even though his presence here has turned fans away.

Anyway back on topic, it would be great for the club to be debt free and finally start to work within a proper budget under what I hope new owners!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Aren't we doing that already?

Thecat23
09-12-2014, 02:18 PM
Aren't we doing that already?

I hope so! I honestly have no idea.


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lucky
09-12-2014, 02:18 PM
This is great news. I hope this kills off fan ownership idea. I'd be happy for STF to own the club with his family. I believe he has ran the club well, off the park, we have all major projects done. This will also free up money for investment in the team. So in my opinion he is setting Hibs up for the future

Hibbyradge
09-12-2014, 02:19 PM
I agree, he neglected the club by leaving it to someone who has zero football experience. The same man who still won't step away even though his presence here has turned fans away.

Anyway back on topic, it would be great for the club to be debt free and finally start to work within a proper budget under what I hope new owners!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The zero football experience/not a football man thing is a red herring, imo.

It's a convenient criticism, but it's irrelevant.

Will we be saying the same about Leeann Dempster soon?

Thecat23
09-12-2014, 02:22 PM
The zero football experience/not a football man thing is a red herring, imo.

It's a convenient criticism, but it's irrelevant.

Will we be saying the same about Leeann Dempster soon?

I think Leeann was brought up watching football knows a lot about the game. Petrie wasn't and I think he was just interested in saving a penny here and there. Could be wrong but that's my view!


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Peevemor
09-12-2014, 02:23 PM
The zero football experience/not a football man thing is a red herring, imo.

It's a convenient criticism, but it's irrelevant.

Will we be saying the same about Leeann Dempster soon?

:agree: Were we saying that during the McLeish & Mowbray periods?

Hibbyradge
09-12-2014, 02:36 PM
I think Leeann was brought up watching football knows a lot about the game. Petrie wasn't and I think he was just interested in saving a penny here and there. Could be wrong but that's my view!


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Seriously?

She wanted to join the military, but instead worked in a funeral parlour and then made her name in advertising.

Yet, the fact that she went to a few Rantic games as a youngster makes her a football person?

Not really, TC.

Thecat23
09-12-2014, 02:36 PM
:agree: Were we saying that during the McLeish & Mowbray periods?

That's when we were throwing ridiculous amounts of money at players. Nearly crippled us. Thankfully we had the "golden generation" to sell on that covered the huge debts run up.

Then he went from one extreme to the next rather than finding a middle ground.

SunshineOnLeith
09-12-2014, 02:38 PM
I think Leeann was brought up watching football knows a lot about the game. Petrie wasn't and I think he was just interested in saving a penny here and there. Could be wrong but that's my view!


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Before Motherwell, Leeann worked as an accounts manager for a range of companies, none of whom were football clubs. She's got about 6 years to date of football experience.

Rod Petrie has over 20 years of football experience.

Thecat23
09-12-2014, 02:39 PM
Seriously?

She wanted to join the military, but instead worked in a funeral parlour and then made her name in advertising.

Yet, the fact that she went to a few Rantic games as a youngster makes her a football person?

Not really, TC.

Oh right, she must have been telling me fibs then! When asked how she got involved in the game she said and I quote "I've been mad about football for as long as I remember"

I get what you mean though, maybe you don't need to be a football man to run a club. But he's not done a great job past 8 years has he?

Thecat23
09-12-2014, 02:40 PM
Before Motherwell, Leeann worked as an accounts manager for a range of companies, none of whom were football clubs. She's got about 6 years to date of football experience.

Rod Petrie has over 20 years of football experience.

No that's not what I'm saying. He may have 20 years of experience but that doesn't mean he actually enjoys watching football. It's his job! Leeann actually does. Did Rod go to games as a youngster? If so I take it back.

Hibbyradge
09-12-2014, 02:44 PM
Oh right, she must have been telling me fibs then! When asked how she got involved in the game she said and I quote "I've been mad about football for as long as I remember"



She said publicly her brothers and father were football mad and she went to games with them.

Even if she did say to you she was "mad about football", how does that qualify her for a senior post on a football board.




I get what you mean though, maybe you don't need to be a football man to run a club. But he's not done a great job past 8 years has he?

I'm not defending RP.

I'm merely saying that the "not a football man" line is a straw man argument. (I think).

SunshineOnLeith
09-12-2014, 02:47 PM
No that's not what I'm saying. He may have 20 years of experience but that doesn't mean he actually enjoys watching football. It's his job! Leeann actually does. Did Rod go to games as a youngster? If so I take it back.

I've got no idea if he grew up watching football, I don't think it's relevant. Even if he'd never been to a game in his life before his professional involvement he's been going to games longer than I have.

If you take the view that it's important, fair enough, agree to disagree.

Peevemor
09-12-2014, 02:47 PM
That's when we were throwing ridiculous amounts of money at players. Nearly crippled us. Thankfully we had the "golden generation" to sell on that covered the huge debts run up.

We weren't throwing more money at players than the likes of Hearts, Aberdeen & Dundee and it was the car park sale that cleared off half the debt. The "golden generation" paid for East Mains.


Then he went from one extreme to the next rather than finding a middle ground.


I disagree. Hibs spending has remained fairly constant since the Blobby era.

Thecat23
09-12-2014, 02:47 PM
She said her brothers and father were football mad and she went to games with them.

Even if she did say she was "mad about football", how does that qualify her for a senior post on a football board.



I'm not defending RP.

I'm merely saying that the "not a football man" line is a straw man argument. (I think).

I personally think that having a background of the game helps. That's why I think she will be more of a success than Petrie. Again only my opinion.


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Kaiser1962
09-12-2014, 02:49 PM
Except the latter point has not been confirmed at any stage

It was mentioned by Colin McNeil at the meetings in the FF in July 2003 when the second move to Straiton was being proposed.

Thecat23
09-12-2014, 02:50 PM
We weren't throwing more money at players than the likes of Hearts, Dundee & Dundee and it was the car park sale that cleared off half the debt. The "golden generation" paid for East Mains.



I disagree. Hibs spending has remained fairly constant since the Blobby era.

We were paying more than hearts, Hibs and Dundee at that time paid higher wages than anyone outside the old firm.

We defo cut back with wages in Williamson's time here. It was the start of pulling back and stop that big wages that we had been giving.

I thought some of the money went to EM and the rest to the debt?


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lyonhibs
09-12-2014, 02:53 PM
Just the bank. The real difference is that it's an entirely voluntary arrangement that leaves both sides satisfied rather than just telling the creditors and charities they're not getting the money they're due.

Good good. In that case, best of luck with it STF. Banks aren't reknowned for voluntarily entering agreements where they end up getting less money from otherwise relatively financially solvent debtors, so I'd be interested to see what the outcome of this is.

Unless of course, STF et al have reason to believe that paying the bank back at the current rates/amounts/repayment plans (whatever they may be) may be about to become a bit more of an issue and are being up front about this with the bank.

Who knows? Not I, but a debt-free (or much closer to being debt free) Hibs that aren't skint and can build the squad necessary to get out of this god forsaken division ASAP is an enticing prospect.

mjhibby
09-12-2014, 02:53 PM
Brilliant news if true and takes pressure off the team to get up at first attempt. Just needs the manager to get a good team on the park.

SteveHFC
09-12-2014, 02:58 PM
Just posted on HibsPaige

https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xap1/v/t1.0-9/10502088_10152902628561323_5278546845901733124_n.j pg?oh=e03e469dff02e2933cbd7962ff59e44f&oe=54FD3C63&__gda__=1427509302_abc5dd672eaf0800d9c6425e8c3fec2 8

southsider
09-12-2014, 03:00 PM
I personally think that having a background of the game helps. That's why I think she will be more of a success than Petrie. Again only my opinion.


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Rod and I are around the same age. I had been to over 1000 games before he had been to his first. In saying that, could I run a football club ? Most likely no.

Thecat23
09-12-2014, 03:01 PM
Rod and I are around the same age. I had been to over 1000 games before he had been to his first. In saying that, could I run a football club ? Most likely no.

Don't put yourself down, you may do alright! [emoji16]


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Thecat23
09-12-2014, 03:02 PM
Just posted on HibsPaige

https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xap1/v/t1.0-9/10502088_10152902628561323_5278546845901733124_n.j pg?oh=e03e469dff02e2933cbd7962ff59e44f&oe=54FD3C63&__gda__=1427509302_abc5dd672eaf0800d9c6425e8c3fec2 8

No danger this will happen!!

CropleyWasGod
09-12-2014, 03:02 PM
Just posted on HibsPaige

https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xap1/v/t1.0-9/10502088_10152902628561323_5278546845901733124_n.j pg?oh=e03e469dff02e2933cbd7962ff59e44f&oe=54FD3C63&__gda__=1427509302_abc5dd672eaf0800d9c6425e8c3fec2 8

The fatal flaw in that argument being that Hearts are not debt-free.:cb

Kaiser1962
09-12-2014, 03:06 PM
The fatal flaw in that argument being that Hearts are not debt-free.:cb

Am I right in thinking that Hearts have got a deadline to meet (FOF to The Budge) to pay a similar amount to the total of Hibs mortgages?

greengnome
09-12-2014, 03:07 PM
The fatal flaw in that argument being that Hearts are not debt-free.:cb


Ground share wi' that lot... It might be the season of goodwill, but they can still F*%% off.... Easter Road is our home, and hopefully will be still for many years to come.... :flag:

CropleyWasGod
09-12-2014, 03:10 PM
Am I right in thinking that Hearts have got a deadline to meet (FOF to The Budge) to pay a similar amount to the total of Hibs mortgages?

Not sure if it's a deadline as such. There is a plan for FOH to pay AB certain amounts over a period, in order to gain control from her; but I am not sure if it's set in stone.

The amounts, IIRC, were about £6.5m, of which they were due to have paid some on AB's takeover.

As things stand, though, the Club are in debt to AB for the £2.5m for the purchase of the club, and any other amounts that she may have put in.

ekhibee
09-12-2014, 03:10 PM
If STF was to leave us debt free by clearing the debt, it would be a fantastic gesture. I would say he should have ran the club better and not had it run by Petrie into the position it is now though.

If he's going to do this then great, and if so then he's surely going to let the club go to someone else. My worry iss its to this buyhibs lot, i was not STF's biggest fan over the last few years but this lot do not fill me with any confident they would do ANY better.
Yep, totally agree with you and your concerns. I'm not sure what to make of this BuyHibs lot either. TBH there's a lot of rumours been going around lately about potential buyers of Hibs, I'm not convinced many of them are true and the ones that are more believable wouldn't be my choice either, at least not on what I've heard so far. Great if Farmer is sorting the debt out, that can only be a positive.

greenpaper55
09-12-2014, 03:14 PM
Just posted on HibsPaige

https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xap1/v/t1.0-9/10502088_10152902628561323_5278546845901733124_n.j pg?oh=e03e469dff02e2933cbd7962ff59e44f&oe=54FD3C63&__gda__=1427509302_abc5dd672eaf0800d9c6425e8c3fec2 8

Is sainsburys not on that land just now ?.

AndyM_1875
09-12-2014, 03:33 PM
No danger this will happen!!

There is no way we'll ground share with these chimps.
Ever.

Ozyhibby
09-12-2014, 03:35 PM
FoH purchase price
£1m on completion of the CVA
£1.4m 2014/15
£1.4m 2015/16
£2.5m in the 2/3 years after that.
Only when every last cent of this is paid are FoH given control of Hearts.
About 2019/20

CropleyWasGod
09-12-2014, 03:37 PM
FoH purchase price
£1m on completion of the CVA
£1.4m 2014/15
£1.4m 2015/16
£2.5m in the 2/3 years after that.
Only when every last cent of this is paid are FoH given control of Hearts.
About 2019/20

Cheers for that. £6.3m....:agree:

Bostonhibby
09-12-2014, 03:53 PM
It would be exactly the sort of thing BuyHibs were looking for - I would imagine that the bank debt (Bank of Scotland/HBOS/Lloyds, VivaPalmeiras) would disappear and a smaller amount owed to STF would replace it in the balance sheet.

It's not unprecedented - Killie, Dundee United and Aberdeen appear to have done something similar, but I've argued that Hibs were less likely to get the same treatment because of the personal guarantees. Hopefully I'm wrong.

This may also explain the delay in the accounts/AGM so that a full announcement of the debt forgiveness and its effect on the finances of the club can be made. The next question is whether it can be backdated to appear in the accounts to 31 July 2014 so that the club can show a healthy profit for Mr Petrie's last season in charge. On the face of it I would say no, but I wouldn't be surprised if they were investigating the possibility.
Not read the entire thread but wouldn't be a bit surprised to find this being the outcome. Win/win if petrie goes to play at bowling club blazers at the end of it as well.

Ozyhibby
09-12-2014, 03:57 PM
Not read the entire thread but wouldn't be a bit surprised to find this being the outcome. Win/win if petrie goes to play at bowling club blazers at the end of it as well.

Things would really start to look up if Rod would announce his retirement at the same time we become debt free. A good Jan transfer window followed by promotion and all would be well again.

HUTCHYHIBBY
09-12-2014, 03:58 PM
I'm not overly keen on a foreign investor being linked with a Hibs takeover, but, when you see the amount of rumours linking foreign investors/charlatans to Scottish clubs over recent years I'm amazed none have been linked to Hibs.

Turkish Green
09-12-2014, 04:00 PM
FoH purchase price
£1m on completion of the CVA
£1.4m 2014/15
£1.4m 2015/16
£2.5m in the 2/3 years after that.
Only when every last cent of this is paid are FoH given control of Hearts.
About 2019/20
It also includes Budgie's profit.


TANSTAAFL

Bostonhibby
09-12-2014, 04:01 PM
FoH purchase price
£1m on completion of the CVA
£1.4m 2014/15
£1.4m 2015/16
£2.5m in the 2/3 years after that.
Only when every last cent of this is paid are FoH given control of Hearts.
About 2019/20
A yam supporting accountant I have to endure from time to time is a pledger and he says the same thing except he wonders if budge might have another plan or if something else might come along. Either way it's an inflation beating return on heavily guaranteed capital!

GreenLake
09-12-2014, 04:03 PM
Before Motherwell, Leeann worked as an accounts manager for a range of companies, none of whom were football clubs. She's got about 6 years to date of football experience.

Rod Petrie has over 20 years of football experience.

Fred Goodwin has over 30 years of banking experience but I wouldn't trust him with my jar of quarters.

Turkish Green
09-12-2014, 04:03 PM
I'm not overly keen on a foreign investor being linked with a Hibs takeover, but, when you see the amount of rumours linking foreign investors/charlatans to Scottish clubs over recent years I'm amazed none have been linked to Hibs.

Not even Irish ones. Even Livingston had Pearce Flynn for a bit.

JimBHibees
09-12-2014, 04:06 PM
I'm not overly keen on a foreign investor being linked with a Hibs takeover, but, when you see the amount of rumours linking foreign investors/charlatans to Scottish clubs over recent years I'm amazed none have been linked to Hibs.

http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11792/9598909/spfl-hibernian-close-to-striking-deal-to-wipe-out-debt

Luke Shanley mentioning Richard Skellett as being the front runner.

SunshineOnLeith
09-12-2014, 04:07 PM
The fatal flaw in that argument being that Hearts are not debt-free.:cb

Erm, mate, it's on Facebook, I think we can trust him. They don't let just anyone post on the internet.

kaimendhibs
09-12-2014, 04:11 PM
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/hibernian-black-sir-tom-farmer-4776063


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silverhibee
09-12-2014, 04:13 PM
I seen a tweet by the sun this morning that sir tom farmer is in talks with the bank to make hibs debt free. Anyone else see/hear anything about that

It was mentioned by someone on chatbox last week that they had heard this and were pretty sure it was happening.

silverhibee
09-12-2014, 04:15 PM
Someone brought this up in the chatbox a couple of weeks ago. He was pretty adamant it was being worked on.

:agree:

silverhibee
09-12-2014, 04:19 PM
Someone already managed that before you posted :wink:


Someone else will be along soon to claim Santa doesn't exist, just watch :greengrin

They should be banned if they do, still writing my letter to him. :greengrin

silverhibee
09-12-2014, 04:21 PM
If STF was to leave us debt free by clearing the debt, it would be a fantastic gesture. I would say he should have ran the club better and not had it run by Petrie into the position it is now though.

If he's going to do this then great, and if so then he's surely going to let the club go to someone else. My worry iss its to this buyhibs lot, i was not STF's biggest fan over the last few years but this lot do not fill me with any confident they would do ANY better.

Don't rule out Mr Skellet being our new owner.

silverhibee
09-12-2014, 04:24 PM
Plus the income from all the fans who (say they will) come back.

:tee hee:

You came back didn't you.

HIBERNIAN-0762
09-12-2014, 04:25 PM
Some utterly hilarious rantings by bitter yams on EEN forum...

:hilarious:hilarious:hilarious:hilarious

blackpoolhibs
09-12-2014, 04:26 PM
Fred Goodwin has over 30 years of banking experience but I wouldn't trust him with my jar of quarters.

Gerald Ratner new about Jewelry apparently?

silverhibee
09-12-2014, 04:29 PM
That's where I am, TBH.

It wouldn't surprise me if the Sun lifted it from Kickback yesterday or, IIRC, from here last week.

As Admin Mikey and me has already said, this matter was posted on the chatbox a few weeks ago by a poster on here, seems a reliable upfront person and he also revealed where he had heard it from, i believe what he said was true with the source he mentioned.
:aok:

Mikey
09-12-2014, 04:30 PM
You came back didn't you.

"Financially" I was never going to go away. I was quite happy to still buy a season ticket but not go to the games.

I said that several times.

CropleyWasGod
09-12-2014, 04:32 PM
As Admin Mikey and me has already said, this matter was posted on the chatbox a few weeks ago by a poster on here, seems a reliable upfront person and he also revealed where he had heard it from, i believe what he said was true with the source he mentioned.
:aok:

Yep...a "source" has also filled me in as well.

Still think that the devil will be in the detail, though.

silverhibee
09-12-2014, 04:32 PM
I've checked back and this story first appeared on here (in the chatbox) on 28th November. So it hasn't just come from yesterday's thread over the road.

Here's what was said......

Take it you copy and pasted that or took a screenshot of it. :wink: :greengrin

silverhibee
09-12-2014, 04:33 PM
Just on the chat box! Haha!!

What's funny.

grunt
09-12-2014, 04:36 PM
What's funny.I just thought it was funny. If you don't think it was then I'm not going to explain it to you.

silverhibee
09-12-2014, 04:42 PM
I think Leeann was brought up watching football knows a lot about the game. Petrie wasn't and I think he was just interested in saving a penny here and there. Could be wrong but that's my view!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Leeann understands the offside rule. :greengrin

As you say, she was brought up watching football, ST holder at a club, before Petrie got his job at Hibs he probably had never attended a football game before.

Thecat23
09-12-2014, 04:43 PM
Leeann understands the offside rule. :greengrin

As you say, she was brought up watching football, ST holder at a club, before Petrie got his job at Hibs he probably had never attended a football game before.

That's what I'm trying to say Silver. I just think it will help her in the role she's doing as a football fan and can connect to the fans. Petrie has never been able to do that and I think a huge factor is because he's no footballing background. He has worked in football yes but that doesn't actually mean he knows about the actual game as such.


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silverhibee
09-12-2014, 04:48 PM
We weren't throwing more money at players than the likes of Hearts, Aberdeen & Dundee and it was the car park sale that cleared off half the debt. The "golden generation" paid for East Mains.



I disagree. Hibs spending has remained fairly constant since the Blobby era.

Thought it was the money from the Fletcher sale that paid for EM.

The Golden generation brought in more than £5m which was the final cost of EM, extra land included.

RSS Bot
09-12-2014, 04:50 PM
More... (http://www.hibernianfc.co.uk/news/4996)



Hibernian FC today announced that the AGM for shareholders will take place on 28 January. This will allow complex negotiations between the Club, the Holding Company and the Bank to be concluded.

The talks have been ongoing for some time, and have focused on the Club’s long term future. Media reports of a total debt write-off are not based on fact, and are speculative.

Leeann Dempster, Chief Executive of Hibernian FC said today: “Discussions have taken place involving the Club, HFC Holdings and the Bank.

"We have decided to hold the AGM slightly later than usual in order to allow these talks to be concluded.

"The outcome will be reflected in the Board’s plans for the future which we will present at the AGM and talk in detail to our supporters.”

silverhibee
09-12-2014, 04:50 PM
Rod and I are around the same age. I had been to over 1000 games before he had been to his first. In saying that, could I run a football club ? Most likely no.

Be positive, you just never no. :greengrin

Centre Hawf
09-12-2014, 04:53 PM
Statement on the club website seems to put this to bed saying its "Speculative"

MWHIBBIES
09-12-2014, 04:54 PM
Reading the thread about this on kickback is pretty hilarious. What is wrong with these people? At least a few of them seem to understand, about 90% are absolute morons though.

EdinMike
09-12-2014, 04:57 PM
I had to check the EEN article (for a giggle) and I got one !! :greengrin:greengrin

"Hopefully these cheats will get their house in order now and start to give The Famous a game the next time we play them.
It's the people they're shafting you've got to feel sorry for but you'll never come across a Hobo with morals.
Hopefully one day they'll be debt free like Hearts but as for now the gap and the gulf in class is only getting bigger."

Lee Marvin
09-12-2014, 04:57 PM
Statement on the club website seems to put this to bed saying its "Speculative"

I don't think that means it's not happening. I'm actually encouraged by hibs statement and them stating 'complex discussions with bank are taking place'.

They will not confirm until it's signed. It's the same with signing a player.

CropleyWasGod
09-12-2014, 04:59 PM
Statement on the club website seems to put this to bed saying its "Speculative"

Not sure I agree.

Media reports of a total debt write-off are not based on fact, and are speculative.

Note the use of the word "total". Also, the write-off isn't "fact" until it's concluded.

Thecat23
09-12-2014, 05:00 PM
I had to check the EEN article (for a giggle) and I got one !! :greengrin:greengrin

"Hopefully these cheats will get their house in order now and start to give The Famous a game the next time we play them.
It's the people they're shafting you've got to feel sorry for but you'll never come across a Hobo with morals.
Hopefully one day they'll be debt free like Hearts but as for now the gap and the gulf in class is only getting bigger."

Stopped posting on there ages ago now. Is Rolland still posting? I sometimes think they are just fishing as no one is that stupid surely?

silverhibee
09-12-2014, 05:02 PM
"Financially" I was never going to go away. I was quite happy to still buy a season ticket but not go to the games.

I said that several times.

Yes you did, more than several times :greengrin

But you still gave up supporting the team by not attending, that's not being very positive is it.

I've done the opposite of you, i never bought a ST but attend almost every game home and away.

Peace. :aok:

offshorehibby
09-12-2014, 05:02 PM
Sod's law, I'm offshore on the 28th and will miss the AGM.

EdinMike
09-12-2014, 05:02 PM
Stopped posting on there ages ago now. Is Rolland still posting? I sometimes think they are just fishing as no one is that stupid surely?

I don't know bud, I've never posted there I just check it when I need a laugh :wink:

weonlywon6-2
09-12-2014, 05:03 PM
If this is the case and it is looking likely then it's a great gesture by stf

stoneyburn hibs
09-12-2014, 05:03 PM
Stopped posting on there ages ago now. Is Rolland still posting? I sometimes think they are just fishing as no one is that stupid surely?

No sane human being is that stupid, however we are talking about Hearts fans.

Thecat23
09-12-2014, 05:04 PM
No sane human being is that stupid, however we are talking about Hearts fans.

[emoji1] that's true.


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Mikey
09-12-2014, 05:04 PM
Yes you did, more than several times :greengrin



So why raise it again?

silverhibee
09-12-2014, 05:05 PM
Yep...a "source" has also filled me in as well.

Still think that the devil will be in the detail, though.

I will be watching with detail what you say, you are are always on the ball with these matters. :aok:

silverhibee
09-12-2014, 05:05 PM
I just thought it was funny. If you don't think it was then I'm not going to explain it to you.

ha ha

Kato
09-12-2014, 05:20 PM
I sometimes think they are just fishing as no one is that stupid surely?


Undoubtedly some fishing on there - but also some real wallopers who believe everything they read from Hearts fans and imagine every Hibs fan's keyboard were hot last season from sending emails to the Lithuanian President. Twats every one.

silverhibee
09-12-2014, 05:20 PM
That's what I'm trying to say Silver. I just think it will help her in the role she's doing as a football fan and can connect to the fans. Petrie has never been able to do that and I think a huge factor is because he's no footballing background. He has worked in football yes but that doesn't actually mean he knows about the actual game as such.


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I understood what you were saying TC, she (LD) comes from a football background, her family were football people, SHE GETS IT ABOUT FOOTBALL, Perie doesn't, if you try to speak to Petrie in BTG it's a waste of time, a big grin then goes on to talk about something else then makes his excuses to leave.

You can talk to Leeann about football and all other matters that goes with football and she is approachable and understands and has time for you, can't say the same for Mr Petrie.

ancient hibee
09-12-2014, 05:21 PM
That's what I'm trying to say Silver. I just think it will help her in the role she's doing as a football fan and can connect to the fans. Petrie has never been able to do that and I think a huge factor is because he's no footballing background. He has worked in football yes but that doesn't actually mean he knows about the actual game as such.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I don't think it's important whether he knows about the game-it's important that he should understand fans(don't think he does).I suspect that LD knows that when any 3 Hibs supporters are gathered together there will be 10 different opinions.
Reading between the lines it may well be that part of the Hibs debt is going to be transferred into the name of the holding company.This will require discussions regarding security.It would also mean that anyone wanting to buy Hibs would not want to do it by buying shares in the holding company.

Thecat23
09-12-2014, 05:23 PM
Undoubtedly some fishing on there - but also some real wallopers who believe everything they read from Hearts fans and imagine every Hibs fan's keyboard were hot last season from sending emails to the Lithuanian President. Twats every one.

Couldn't agree more. Some of them had me worried and I'm being serious. I have to share a city with these clowns.


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Thecat23
09-12-2014, 05:24 PM
I don't think it's important whether he knows about the game-it's important that he should understand fans(don't think he does).I suspect that LD knows that when any 3 Hibs supporters are gathered together there will be 10 different opinions.
Reading between the lines it may well be that part of the Hibs debt is going to be transferred into the name of the holding company.This will require discussions regarding security.It would also mean that anyone wanting to buy Hibs would not want to do it by buying shares in the holding company.

Yeah he just doesn't get what it means to us. A football club only survives because of the fans who come along. They are the most important thing keeping a club going. He just never got it.


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Thecat23
09-12-2014, 05:25 PM
I understood what you were saying TC, she (LD) comes from a football background, her family were football people, SHE GETS IT ABOUT FOOTBALL, Perie doesn't, if you try to speak to Petrie in BTG it's a waste of time, a big grin then goes on to talk about something else then makes his excuses to leave.

You can talk to Leeann about football and all other matters that goes with football and she is approachable and understands and has time for you, can't say the same for Mr Petrie.

Spot on [emoji106]


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greenginger
09-12-2014, 05:34 PM
FoH purchase price
£1m on completion of the CVA
£1.4m 2014/15
£1.4m 2015/16
£2.5m in the 2/3 years after that.
Only when every last cent of this is paid are FoH given control of Hearts.
About 2019/20


The two £ 1.4 millions are loans for working capital and will revert to loans due to FoH on completion of the purchase from Bidco.


http://www.foundationofhearts.org/foundation-of-hearts-qa/


Then they will be back to owing it to themselves again. :greengrin

And that is assuming they don't overspend on their income over the next 5 years .

semaj64
09-12-2014, 06:21 PM
Great news if this goes ahead. Will be interesting to hear what other plans are going forward.

Bostonhibby
09-12-2014, 06:27 PM
The two £ 1.4 millions are loans for working capital and will revert to loans due to FoH on completion of the purchase from Bidco.


http://www.foundationofhearts.org/foundation-of-hearts-qa/


Then they will be back to owing it to themselves again. :greengrin

And that is assuming they don't overspend on their income over the next 5 years .

All big teams do it, wonder if they will charge themselves interest like budgie is doing, or just hope it will all go away like when that nice Mr Romanov sir was running the show backed by all his banks :Romanov::ostrich:

HIBERNIAN-0762
09-12-2014, 06:29 PM
WTF kind of report was that on STV Edinburgh sports news? about 30 seconds if lucky about us then on to an in depth report on Tommy Craig getting the bullet at St Mirren :rolleyes:

I'm sure the good people of Edinburgh and the Lothians couldn't give a flying one about that!

Shockingly bad reporting.

HUTCHYHIBBY
09-12-2014, 06:32 PM
http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11792/9598909/spfl-hibernian-close-to-striking-deal-to-wipe-out-debt

Luke Shanley mentioning Richard Skellett as being the front runner.

Is he foreign? ;-)

Tyler Durden
09-12-2014, 06:33 PM
I'm not sure why you are being quite so hostile to me on this point?

I've simply suggested that banks don't tend to just forgive debt that is being happily serviced.

Debt restructuring happens of course when that might be beneficial to the bank. The conversation on BuyHibs was that the expectation was that the bank would just allow us to ditch the debt. That won't happen.

We've yet to see any detail so I'm not sure why I would have been proven wrong in suggestion that it won't just get written off.

I do have some knowledge to base this on. I attend credit committee, executive committee, risk committee and on occasion the group board of a pretty major UK bank.

I don't believe I have been hostile. Review the BuyHibs thread again. You were very dismissive of the notion that the bank would consider any debt forgiveness. Absolutely fair to challenge BuyHibs but I'd suggest you were OTT, suggested it was ridiculous.

I challenged your rationale and put forward a number of assumptions you based your view on. You were quite dismissive and patronising at that point too.

Now we have many media sources and even the club commenting on negotiations to agree a deal on our debt. Not such a crazy idea after all.

silverhibee
09-12-2014, 06:44 PM
So why raise it again?

You were the one who had a wee dig at fans about coming back, or not. :aok:

Andy74
09-12-2014, 06:47 PM
I don't believe I have been hostile. Review the BuyHibs thread again. You were very dismissive of the notion that the bank would consider any debt forgiveness. Absolutely fair to challenge BuyHibs but I'd suggest you were OTT, suggested it was ridiculous.

I challenged your rationale and put forward a number of assumptions you based your view on. You were quite dismissive and patronising at that point too.

Now we have many media sources and even the club commenting on negotiations to agree a deal on our debt. Not such a crazy idea after all.

The debt won't just be written off though thats my point. The examples where large parts of debt were written off were in keeping with the actions banks would take in companies who were distressed.

This situation is different and I think we should wait and see the detail before you can say that the bank has been happy to just write off the debt.

lyonhibs
09-12-2014, 06:55 PM
Reading the thread about this on kickback is pretty hilarious. What is wrong with these people? At least a few of them seem to understand, about 90% are absolute morons though.

I daresay the "Hertz are going bust...........aww naw they aren't" mega-thread on here has tickled more than a few Jambos over the past few months.

A deep understanding of and rational commenting on complex financial matters, where there are almost always 101 shades of grey is not really the average football fan (including me) forte (except CWG and Caversham Green - obviously :greengrin)

Mon Dieu4
09-12-2014, 07:06 PM
The debt won't just be written off though thats my point. The examples where large parts of debt were written off were in keeping with the actions banks would take in companies who were distressed.

This situation is different and I think we should wait and see the detail before you can say that the bank has been happy to just write off the debt.

you can always chance your luck though, I owed the bank around £6k for a loan, they knew I would be good for paying it but I called them and asked how much would it cost me to pay it off right now, they countered with you have to give us a figure first and we will come back with a counter offer, so thought **** it start low so I said alright £1,500 which I thought they would laugh at, they came back and said right we can't do it for that but we can for £1,700. Result, having worked in Banks all my days I was pretty surprised by this but sometimes it's worth giving it a bash

emerald green
09-12-2014, 07:44 PM
Not sure I agree.

Media reports of a total debt write-off are not based on fact, and are speculative.

Note the use of the word "total". Also, the write-off isn't "fact" until it's concluded.

:agree: Hopefully good news to come though in January after the AGM. As always, the devil will be in the detail.

emerald green
09-12-2014, 07:59 PM
I had to check the EEN article (for a giggle) and I got one !! :greengrin:greengrin

"Hopefully these cheats will get their house in order now and start to give The Famous a game the next time we play them.
It's the people they're shafting you've got to feel sorry for but you'll never come across a Hobo with morals.
Hopefully one day they'll be debt free like Hearts but as for now the gap and the gulf in class is only getting bigger."

I had a look there too. There are Yam trolls swarming all over the "Sir Tom Farmer nearing Hibs debt deal" story posting stuff like the one above.

Most of them are just pure nuts. A fair number are trying to twist this into "Hibs are cheating". Complete and utter roasters.

whiskyhibby
09-12-2014, 08:04 PM
WTF kind of report was that on STV Edinburgh sports news? about 30 seconds if lucky about us then on to an in depth report on Tommy Craig getting the bullet at St Mirren :rolleyes:

I'm sure the good people of Edinburgh and the Lothians couldn't give a flying one about that!

Shockingly bad reporting.

It was better than the Hibs piece on BBC Scotland........

greenpaper55
09-12-2014, 08:39 PM
It was better than the Hibs piece on BBC Scotland........

Your right, the non existent piece !. don't think they have a clue what is going on outside Glasgow.

SunshineOnLeith
09-12-2014, 08:45 PM
Your right, the non existent piece !. don't think they have a clue what is going on outside Glasgow.

After the Rangers and Hearts stories, I've had my fill of Scotland's finest sports 'journalists' trying their hand at financial matters. At least if they ignore it they won't get everything embarrassingly wrong!

Kato
09-12-2014, 09:03 PM
As far as I know no deal has been done and the story so far is based on "reports" and some supposition. In other words there is no story for the TV to report on.

Ray_
09-12-2014, 09:55 PM
Oh right, she must have been telling me fibs then! When asked how she got involved in the game she said and I quote "I've been mad about football for as long as I remember"

I get what you mean though, maybe you don't need to be a football man to run a club. But he's not done a great job past 8 years has he?

He never done a great job before that either, running up debts of over 18M.

Ray_
09-12-2014, 09:58 PM
I had a look there too. There are Yam trolls swarming all over the "Sir Tom Farmer nearing Hibs debt deal" story posting stuff like the one above.

Most of them are just pure nuts. A fair number are trying to twist this into "Hibs are cheating". Complete and utter roasters.

Most likely the same ones who call Rankers cheats and don't see the comparisons.

offshorehibby
09-12-2014, 10:39 PM
There's a guys name surfaced on the Bounce called Martin Hayman possibly a Fundraising Consultant. Anybody heard his name banded about.

DaveF
09-12-2014, 10:42 PM
There's a guys name surfaced on the Bounce called Martin Hayman possibly a Fundraising Consultant. Anybody heard his name banded about.

He (or his namesake) came a gallant 4th out of 5 in the 2003 local elections standing in Musselburgh for the Lib Dems. The name also crops up around Haddington quite a bit if its the same guy so I'm sure the East Lothian posters will know more.

offshorehibby
09-12-2014, 10:50 PM
He (or his namesake) came a gallant 4th out of 5 in the 2003 local elections standing in Musselburgh for the Lib Dems. The name also crops up around Haddington quite a bit if its the same guy so I'm sure the East Lothian posters will know more.


For some reason my cut & paste on .net is not working. If you look at his Linkedin page he is from down that way.

'Over 20 years experience in securing major gifts. Provides bespoke training and fundraising to help clients raise the funds they need.'

Kaiser1962
09-12-2014, 10:53 PM
There's a guys name surfaced on the Bounce called Martin Hayman possibly a Fundraising Consultant. Anybody heard his name banded about.

Was involved in Haddington Community Development Trust until September.

CropleyWasGod
09-12-2014, 10:55 PM
There's a guys name surfaced on the Bounce called Martin Hayman possibly a Fundraising Consultant. Anybody heard his name banded about.
What's the suggested connection with us?

Mikey
09-12-2014, 10:58 PM
What's the suggested connection with us?

Indeed. Someone raising funds doesn't sound like a bad thing!

offshorehibby
09-12-2014, 11:01 PM
What's the suggested connection with us?


JFTB on the Bounce mentioned his name, seems to think he's been contacting businesses/business men regarding investment in Hibs. Through the current Hibs board not BH. Alleged to be using a Hibernianfc email address.

PatHead
09-12-2014, 11:35 PM
There is someone working with Hibs who has the brief to raise funds for the Community Foundation to help expand the work they do and help engage with the wider community.

I don't know is name but it could be him.

Peevemor
09-12-2014, 11:40 PM
I had a look there too. There are Yam trolls swarming all over the "Sir Tom Farmer nearing Hibs debt deal" story posting stuff like the one above.

Most of them are just pure nuts. A fair number are trying to twist this into "Hibs are cheating". Complete and utter roasters.

I just had a squint across on brokeback. They aren't very bright are they?

Leithenhibby
09-12-2014, 11:47 PM
I just had a squint across on brokeback. They aren't very bright are they?

:greengrin

Sean1875
10-12-2014, 12:21 AM
yams posting all their opinions on financial dealings is absolutely hilarious, comparing a deal which suits both sides to almost liquidating yourselves and not paying creditors both big and small is just mind blowing

Bostonhibby
10-12-2014, 08:25 AM
yams posting all their opinions on financial dealings is absolutely hilarious, comparing a deal which suits both sides to almost liquidating yourselves and not paying creditors both big and small is just mind blowing
It's probably different to their business model of last resort as we are unlikely to be resting any of the macraes battalion trust money in our bank account and we haven't had to publish a creditors list acknowledging we had bumped the poppy charity.

Big team though.

Mikey
10-12-2014, 08:28 AM
There is someone working with Hibs who has the brief to raise funds for the Community Foundation to help expand the work they do and help engage with the wider community.

I don't know is name but it could be him.

Sounds like it, and it certainly doesn't sound as though there's anything untoward going on.

Andy74
10-12-2014, 09:30 AM
What's Paul Kane all about?

Upset that this didn't come out in one of the non conversations they decided to not have with the board. Says the club will have to accept scrutiny of this and whether it is really for the benefit of the club!! Well, Buy hibs have finally accepted that's part of running Hibs, or trying to.


From Scotsman:

Others, however, remain sceptical, expressing annoyance that the groups interested in taking over the club – including BuyHibs – were not informed of these plans during their numerous meetings with board representatives, especially as they have been cited as the reason for the delay of the AGM – which is usually held in October/November but is now scheduled for

28 January.

In yesterday’s statement, Leeann Dempster, chief executive of Hibernian, said: “Discussions have taken place involving the Club, HFC Holdings and the Bank.

“We have decided to hold the AGM slightly later than usual in order to allow these talks to be concluded.

“The outcome will be reflected in the Board’s plans for the future which we will present at the AGM and talk in detail to our supporters.”


Former player Paul Kane, an active campaigner for change, said that the board will have to be prepared for the plans to be scrutinised by the fans in the wake of that meeting.

“It’s a little bit disappointing that they won’t be coming to the fans with proposals,” he said. “From the sounds of the statement they are too far down the line for this to be called a proposal, but the fans don’t just have to accept it. They have to prove that this is right for the club. It could be a pivotal moment in the history of our football club and we will wait to see what they say on the 28th. That’s when the Hibs support will hear what has been going on behind the scenes and that is when the Hibs support will make their judgment.”

Beefster
10-12-2014, 09:45 AM
BuyHibs: we want STF to pay off the debt.

It emerges that STF is in discussions about paying off the debt...

BuyHibs: well, we don't have to accept it.

Fair summary or not?

JimBHibees
10-12-2014, 09:47 AM
BuyHibs: we want STF to pay off the debt.

It emerges that STF is in discussions about paying off the debt...

BuyHibs: well, we don't have to accept it and why are they not talking to us about it :rolleyes:

Fair summary or not?

See above

Bostonhibby
10-12-2014, 09:49 AM
Subject to the terms,reducing debt via a deal isn't a bad thing and the risk is potentially being carried by stf still so not sure what's to discuss at this point?

If there is a downside then we can decide how to react when details are out but I am assuming stf won't have negotiated or underwritten a worse deal than we currently have or a vaguer one than is currently on offer?

lyonhibs
10-12-2014, 09:59 AM
What's Paul Kane all about?

Upset that this didn't come out in one of the non conversations they decided to not have with the board. Says the club will have to accept scrutiny of this and whether it is really for the benefit of the club!! Well, Buy hibs have finally accepted that's part of running Hibs, or trying to.


From Scotsman:

Others, however, remain sceptical, expressing annoyance that the groups interested in taking over the club – including BuyHibs – were not informed of these plans during their numerous meetings with board representatives, especially as they have been cited as the reason for the delay of the AGM – which is usually held in October/November but is now scheduled for

28 January.

In yesterday’s statement, Leeann Dempster, chief executive of Hibernian, said: “Discussions have taken place involving the Club, HFC Holdings and the Bank.

“We have decided to hold the AGM slightly later than usual in order to allow these talks to be concluded.

“The outcome will be reflected in the Board’s plans for the future which we will present at the AGM and talk in detail to our supporters.”


Former player Paul Kane, an active campaigner for change, said that the board will have to be prepared for the plans to be scrutinised by the fans in the wake of that meeting.

“It’s a little bit disappointing that they won’t be coming to the fans with proposals,” he said. “From the sounds of the statement they are too far down the line for this to be called a proposal, but the fans don’t just have to accept it. They have to prove that this is right for the club. It could be a pivotal moment in the history of our football club and we will wait to see what they say on the 28th. That’s when the Hibs support will hear what has been going on behind the scenes and that is when the Hibs support will make their judgment.”

What a throbber - if not undoubtedly a guid Hibbie throbber - Paul Kane seems to come across as in the media.

It seems like STF, with his 40+ years in business and rather healthy bank balance has decided to try and sort out/restructure/minimize (TBC exactly what of coures) our bank debt directly with the bank and not via the Buy Hibs consortium/group/call it what you will and he's getting his knickers in a twist.

If this - whatever it is . is sorted and in black and white in time for the AGM then I'll put my neck on the line and say the reaction will be overwhelming positive from those in attendance.

The idea that STF should do a sort of Dragons Den proposal for the fans for what he proposes to put forward directly to the bank is absolutely preposterous IMO.

marinello59
10-12-2014, 10:05 AM
BuyHibs: we want STF to pay off the debt.

It emerges that STF is in discussions about paying off the debt...

BuyHibs: well, we don't have to accept it.

Fair summary or not?

Totally fair.

Peevemor
10-12-2014, 10:09 AM
What a throbber - if not undoubtedly a guid Hibbie throbber - Paul Kane seems to come across as in the media.

It seems like STF, with his 40+ years in business and rather healthy bank balance has decided to try and sort out/restructure/minimize (TBC exactly what of coures) our bank debt directly with the bank and not via the Buy Hibs consortium/group/call it what you will and he's getting his knickers in a twist.

If this - whatever it is . is sorted and in black and white in time for the AGM then I'll put my neck on the line and say the reaction will be overwhelming positive from those in attendance.

The idea that STF should do a sort of Dragons Den proposal for the fans for what he proposes to put forward directly to the bank is absolutely preposterous IMO.

:agree: Maybe if BuyHibs had met with the board instead of rejecting the invitation to do so, they would have been told what was going on.

jacomo
10-12-2014, 10:20 AM
Sounds like it, and it certainly doesn't sound as though there's anything untoward going on.

Fundraising for the Foundation is very different to finding investors for the club. Sounds like something else altogether.

Ozyhibby
10-12-2014, 10:29 AM
What's Paul Kane all about?

Upset that this didn't come out in one of the non conversations they decided to not have with the board. Says the club will have to accept scrutiny of this and whether it is really for the benefit of the club!! Well, Buy hibs have finally accepted that's part of running Hibs, or trying to.


From Scotsman:

Others, however, remain sceptical, expressing annoyance that the groups interested in taking over the club – including BuyHibs – were not informed of these plans during their numerous meetings with board representatives, especially as they have been cited as the reason for the delay of the AGM – which is usually held in October/November but is now scheduled for

28 January.

In yesterday’s statement, Leeann Dempster, chief executive of Hibernian, said: “Discussions have taken place involving the Club, HFC Holdings and the Bank.

“We have decided to hold the AGM slightly later than usual in order to allow these talks to be concluded.

“The outcome will be reflected in the Board’s plans for the future which we will present at the AGM and talk in detail to our supporters.”


Former player Paul Kane, an active campaigner for change, said that the board will have to be prepared for the plans to be scrutinised by the fans in the wake of that meeting.

“It’s a little bit disappointing that they won’t be coming to the fans with proposals,” he said. “From the sounds of the statement they are too far down the line for this to be called a proposal, but the fans don’t just have to accept it. They have to prove that this is right for the club. It could be a pivotal moment in the history of our football club and we will wait to see what they say on the 28th. That’s when the Hibs support will hear what has been going on behind the scenes and that is when the Hibs support will make their judgment.”

Mmmm....sometimes it's best just to say nothing at all and wait and see.

greenginger
10-12-2014, 10:44 AM
What were they expecting ?

A call,......... Hello, STF here, I was thinking cancelling some of my Club's debt to myself. Is that OK , can I get your permission to do that ?

Imbeciles, don't begin to describe some of these guys !

scoopyboy
10-12-2014, 10:44 AM
Paul Kane is becoming boring with his constant whinging.

He could do himself and the rest of us a favour by being quiet for a while.

hibbymac
10-12-2014, 10:53 AM
What's Paul Kane all about?

Upset that this didn't come out in one of the non conversations they decided to not have with the board. Says the club will have to accept scrutiny of this and whether it is really for the benefit of the club!! Well, Buy hibs have finally accepted that's part of running Hibs, or trying to.


From Scotsman:

Others, however, remain sceptical, expressing annoyance that the groups interested in taking over the club – including BuyHibs – were not informed of these plans during their numerous meetings with board representatives, especially as they have been cited as the reason for the delay of the AGM – which is usually held in October/November but is now scheduled for

28 January.

In yesterday’s statement, Leeann Dempster, chief executive of Hibernian, said: “Discussions have taken place involving the Club, HFC Holdings and the Bank.

“We have decided to hold the AGM slightly later than usual in order to allow these talks to be concluded.

“The outcome will be reflected in the Board’s plans for the future which we will present at the AGM and talk in detail to our supporters.”


Former player Paul Kane, an active campaigner for change, said that the board will have to be prepared for the plans to be scrutinised by the fans in the wake of that meeting.

“It’s a little bit disappointing that they won’t be coming to the fans with proposals,” he said. “From the sounds of the statement they are too far down the line for this to be called a proposal, but the fans don’t just have to accept it. They have to prove that this is right for the club. It could be a pivotal moment in the history of our football club and we will wait to see what they say on the 28th. That’s when the Hibs support will hear what has been going on behind the scenes and that is when the Hibs support will make their judgment.”

:confused: What "other" groups, apart from BuyHibs, have shown an interest in "taking over the club"?

Heisenberg
10-12-2014, 10:58 AM
BuyHibs were invited to meet the board and declined. They are now unhappy they werent told what the board were planning to do? Morons.

Juice-Terry
10-12-2014, 10:59 AM
In fairness to Kano, what, exactly, is wrong with this?

“It’s a little bit disappointing that they won’t be coming to the fans with proposals,” he said. “From the sounds of the statement they are too far down the line for this to be called a proposal, but the fans don’t just have to accept it. They have to prove that this is right for the club. It could be a pivotal moment in the history of our football club and we will wait to see what they say on the 28th. That’s when the Hibs support will hear what has been going on behind the scenes and that is when the Hibs support will make their judgment.”

STF reduces the debt, then what? Paul's complaint seems to be that whatever STF and the board have planned AFTER that they have not consulted properly with the fans about it. Is STF planning on selling the club? If so, to whom? Is he - like some rather paranoid folk on Facebook are suggesting - planning on moving the club to Straiton to groundshare with Hertz? Is he planning on converting all or part of the club (Easter Road, East Mains, the football club) into a Community Interest Company?

hibbymac
10-12-2014, 11:00 AM
What were they expecting ?

A call,......... Hello, STF here, I was thinking cancelling some of my Club's debt to myself. Is that OK , can I get your permission to do that ?

Imbeciles, don't begin to describe some of these guys !

:agree: Exactly, why say anything, they seem to be trying to put a negative slant on it without knowing the details,

Certainly not doing themselves (or himself) any favours, why not just say, "Great news, lets see what the details are in January", instead of all this negative nonsense. :rolleyes:

CropleyWasGod
10-12-2014, 11:00 AM
BuyHibs were invited to meet the board and declined. They are now unhappy they werent told what the board were planning to do? Morons.

To be fair to BH, it's not them that is saying they are unhappy.

Borderhibbie76
10-12-2014, 11:01 AM
BuyHibs were invited to meet the board and declined. They are now unhappy they werent told what the board were planning to do? Morons.

Paul Kane is a good Hibby but he comes across as a right plonker in the press! He hasnt delivered on anything he said he would in the summer and would be best advised to keep quiet for a bit

Juice-Terry
10-12-2014, 11:03 AM
To be fair to BH, it's not them that is saying they are unhappy.

Totally agree. FAR too much BH/Kano bashing going on here.

Heisenberg
10-12-2014, 11:03 AM
To be fair to BH, it's not them that is saying they are unhappy.

That's the way I read the article. Apologies if not the case.

Peevemor
10-12-2014, 11:06 AM
In fairness to Kano, what, exactly, is wrong with this?

“It’s a little bit disappointing that they won’t be coming to the fans with proposals,” he said. “From the sounds of the statement they are too far down the line for this to be called a proposal, but the fans don’t just have to accept it. They have to prove that this is right for the club. It could be a pivotal moment in the history of our football club and we will wait to see what they say on the 28th. That’s when the Hibs support will hear what has been going on behind the scenes and that is when the Hibs support will make their judgment.”

STF reduces the debt, then what? Paul's complaint seems to be that whatever STF and the board have planned AFTER that they have not consulted properly with the fans about it. Is STF planning on selling the club? If so, to whom? Is he - like some rather paranoid folk on Facebook are suggesting - planning on moving the club to Straiton to groundshare with Hertz? Is he planning on converting all or part of the club (Easter Road, East Mains, the football club) into a Community Interest Company?

Hibs/the board/STF/RP/LD - NOBODY at the club asked BuyHibs to put together their project and BuyhIbs don't even want to meet the board. The board has fixed the date of the AGM where there will be an announcement about what has been done and, possibly, an indication of what is planned for the future.

Kano should hold his tongue and wait and see just like everyone else.