AGM 28th January/STF Reportedly Reducing Club Debt

[CropleyWasGod]

That's the way I read the article. Apologies if not the case.

No worries.

Problem is, of course, that people see BH/PK as the same. You won't be the only person to do that, and that could be an issue for BH.

[Andy74]

In fairness to Kano, what, exactly, is wrong with this?

“It’s a little bit disappointing that they won’t be coming to the fans with proposals,” he said. “From the sounds of the statement they are too far down the line for this to be called a proposal, but the fans don’t just have to accept it. They have to prove that this is right for the club. It could be a pivotal moment in the history of our football club and we will wait to see what they say on the 28th. That’s when the Hibs support will hear what has been going on behind the scenes and that is when the Hibs support will make their judgment.”

STF reduces the debt, then what? Paul's complaint seems to be that whatever STF and the board have planned AFTER that they have not consulted properly with the fans about it. Is STF planning on selling the club? If so, to whom? Is he - like some rather paranoid folk on Facebook are suggesting - planning on moving the club to Straiton to groundshare with Hertz? Is he planning on converting all or part of the club (Easter Road, East Mains, the football club) into a Community Interest Company?

What is wrong is that BuyHibs decided to launch despite most fans saying they did not see the type of scheme they are suggesting as a priority.

The club have consulted through a survey and three consultation nights. They are taking on board the feedback and working on plans and will present them to the AGM.

In the meantime BuyHibs have been unable to put forward any coherent plan, they have been shambolic in their communications, and have been scaremongering about stripping assets.

To top it off they refused a public invitation to go and talk to the board about the plans and now one of their directors is complaining about lack of consultation on what is an ongoing discussion with the bank on something that can only be positive for us. The current owners have earned, and paid for, the right to have those discussions then present them to shareholders.

This is what happens when you refuse to work with the club in a realistic and practical manner and from the moment they refused to do so they lost the right to have much of a say. It's not like they can show the backing of many fans.

[IWasThere2016]

That would be superb if he managed to do this. For all the criticism I've gave him, if he can get us debt free then he deserves all the credit he can get!

He deserves (heavy) criticism for his faith in the toxic RP - but not much else.

[chippy]

What's the problem with the concept of fan scrutiny of the proposals to be put forward at the AGM. Guys on here expend effort scrutinising the BH project. I would have thought doing the same with the current regimes proposals would be something you would want to do. Surely it would be crazy to simply accept and be damn grateful for what might be proposed when all we know for sure is a statement from the Board. Let's consider all options , let's get the facts in the open and continue an open debate. Why call for some fans to be silent? This is the time to talk to each other. A crucial period in our history.

[CropleyWasGod]

What's the problem with the concept of fan scrutiny of the proposals to be put forward at the AGM. Guys on here expend effort scrutinising the BH project. I would have thought doing the same with the current regimes proposals would be something you would want to do. Surely it would be crazy to simply accept and be damn grateful for what might be proposed when all we know for sure is a statement from the Board. Let's consider all options , let's get the facts in the open and continue an open debate. Why call for some fans to be silent? This is the time to talk to each other. A crucial period in our history.

Don't think anyone is objecting to that, are they?

[Andy74]

What's the problem with the concept of fan scrutiny of the proposals to be put forward at the AGM. Guys on here expend effort scrutinising the BH project. I would have thought doing the same with the current regimes proposals would be something you would want to do. Surely it would be crazy to simply accept and be damn grateful for what might be proposed when all we know for sure is a statement from the Board. Let's consider all options , let's get the facts in the open and continue an open debate. Why call for some fans to be silent? This is the time to talk to each other. A crucial period in our history.

When they are produced I'm sure they will be scrutinised.

The deal with the bank though is probably a matter for the current board/owner/holding company and I wouldn't expect it to be something the fans would expect to be consulted on.

Anyway, facts in the open, open debate, talking to each other - good sentiments which is why its a pity Buyhibs have failed in those so far.

[lyonhibs]

What's the problem with the concept of fan scrutiny of the proposals to be put forward at the AGM. Guys on here expend effort scrutinising the BH project. I would have thought doing the same with the current regimes proposals would be something you would want to do. Surely it would be crazy to simply accept and be damn grateful for what might be proposed when all we know for sure is a statement from the Board. Let's consider all options , let's get the facts in the open and continue an open debate. Why call for some fans to be silent? This is the time to talk to each other. A crucial period in our history.

If Paul Kane had just attended the Hibs AGM and scrutinized the plans there, then fair play. But instead we have this line (or at least I read it as such) that he's disappointed that STF et al didn't somehow run the options by the fans before embarking on the discussions direct with the bank.

The proof of the pudding will be in the eating as they say, but dragging that analogy out somewhat if you're waiting for your pudding, there's nothing to be gained from girning that the cook didn't let you browse the ingredients before it went in the oven, especially if you have yourself declined a request to meet the cook beforehand.

[marinello59]

What's the problem with the concept of fan scrutiny of the proposals to be put forward at the AGM. Guys on here expend effort scrutinising the BH project. I would have thought doing the same with the current regimes proposals would be something you would want to do. Surely it would be crazy to simply accept and be damn grateful for what might be proposed when all we know for sure is a statement from the Board. Let's consider all options , let's get the facts in the open and continue an open debate. Why call for some fans to be silent? This is the time to talk to each other. A crucial period in our history.

:confused:
Nobody has said the plans shouldn't be scrutinised when they are produced and nobody is calling for fans to be silent.

[MB62]

I think there's a wee bit fault on both sides here.
BH should have probably met with the board as a first step and the board should have mentioned to BH about these moves to the bank, even just out of common courtesy.

Noses out of joint, that's all, now move along chaps.

[marinello59]

I think there's a wee bit fault on both sides here.
BH should have probably met with the board as a first step and the board should have mentioned to BH about these moves to the bank, even just out of common courtesy.

Noses out of joint, that's all, now move along chaps.

Surely the refusal by BH to meet with the board when offered made them hostile so why on earth would the club inform them before anybody else about this?

[jacomo]

I think delaying the AGM - without explanation until today - was a mistake.

Before someone comes along to point this out: I know the club doesn't have to hold an AGM. But it had become an established part of the calendar and the delay only fuelled rumours and gossip. The club could have gone ahead as planned and simply said that the Board were looking at restructuring things in the best interests of the club, or something similar. LD had hinted as much to enough people that fans were talking about this anyway.

The reaction from Paul Kane, however, is unfortunate. He will be seen as a spokesperson for Buy Hibs now. They really aren't handling this well.

[worcesterhibby]

If Paul Kane had just attended the Hibs AGM and scrutinized the plans there, then fair play. But instead we have this line (or at least I read it as such) that he's disappointed that STF et al didn't somehow run the options by the fans before embarking on the discussions direct with the bank.

The proof of the pudding will be in the eating as they say, but dragging that analogy out somewhat if you're waiting for your pudding, there's nothing to be gained from girning that the cook didn't let you browse the ingredients before it went in the oven, especially if you have yourself declined a request to meet the cook beforehand.

I'm loving this whole pudding scenario..It seems Paul Kane wants his cake and eat it too.

[Kaiser1962]

Surely the refusal by BH to meet with the board when offered made them hostile so why on earth would the club inform them before anybody else about this?

Buy Hibs are talking and acting like they have an overwhelming popular mandate from the supporter base to act on their behalf. They are talking like they hold all the aces when that is clearly not the case. I am beginning to think very cynically about the timing of their bid when I genuinely should be looking for a reason to support it.

[worcesterhibby]

If Paul Kane had just attended the Hibs AGM and scrutinized the plans there, then fair play. But instead we have this line (or at least I read it as such) that he's disappointed that STF et al didn't somehow run the options by the fans before embarking on the discussions direct with the bank.

The proof of the pudding will be in the eating as they say, but dragging that analogy out somewhat if you're waiting for your pudding, there's nothing to be gained from girning that the cook didn't let you browse the ingredients before it went in the oven, especially if you have yourself declined a request to meet the cook beforehand.

he better watch what he says or he might end up getting (Tirima) Sued

[Mikey]

The reaction from Paul Kane, however, is unfortunate. He will be seen as a spokesperson for Buy Hibs now. They really aren't handling this well.

Paul Kane hasn't been involved with BuyHibs since the day of the launch. Even the description of him in the paper leaves out his involvement.....


Former player Paul Kane, an active campaigner for change

Shouldn't that say "Former player Paul Kane, Director of BuyHibs......". I'm sure it would if he still was :wink:

[Waxy]

Doubt very much a groundshare with them could work for us. It would be the end of us if we did that. Just because they have no choice but to move to the wilderness, we don't need to.

[Andy74]

Surely the refusal by BH to meet with the board when offered made them hostile so why on earth would the club inform them before anybody else about this?

Correct, they have absolutely no status to be briefed or consulted on anything.

[Bad Martini]

**** me...:rolleyes:

Folk are never happy. Discussions at the start of this thread turned negative, even with the prospect or remote possibility that a wee bit/some/most/all of our debt could be being dealt with...suddenly this is just the "Norm"...our owner should just pump up the cash either way as it's his responsibility. Aye right then. Look at the huns for starters? And the mutants.

Some people are genuinely NEVER happy.

Maybe Tom Farmer should hand over his hoose, his businesses, his cars, his clothes, the whole ****ing lot and let the afflicted decide on his fate? We should frog march him doon Easter Road for his sins against humanity?

We have become pish but it is not down to Tom Farmer. Yes, some of it is down to the man he put in charge and more recently, I would consider Petrie (and the board) decisions to be wrong. Very wrong. Many times over.

HOWEVER, from what I can see, Farmer is taking steps to rectify this now. Too late? Who knows. We were ****ing winning the league cup a few years ago and beating top flight teams - I didnt hear anyone screaming for Farmer to sell up then, as he slipped a few thousand/**** knows how much or just simply stood behind our debt so the bank didnt pull the plug......we've been an up and down team for decades. We've been doing more of the same until we had the Calderwood damage and then we were doomed by the Butcher months. The rest is history.

:rolleyes:

I swear some folk cannot wait to see us relegated / go bust / something go wrong...

[jacomo]

Paul Kane hasn't been involved with BuyHibs since the day of the launch. Even the description of him in the paper leaves out his involvement.....



Shouldn't that say "Former player Paul Kane, Director of BuyHibs......". I'm sure it would if he still was :wink:

http://www.buyhibs.org/about-buy-hibs/meet-the-team/

Back at ya. :wink:

If he's no longer involved, why is he still listed as a director?

[jacomo]

**** me...:rolleyes:

Folk are never happy. Discussions at the start of this thread turned negative, even with the prospect or remote possibility that a wee bit/some/most/all of our debt could be being dealt with...suddenly this is just the "Norm"...our owner should just pump up the cash either way as it's his responsibility. Aye right then. Look at the huns for starters? And the mutants.

Some people are genuinely NEVER happy.

Maybe Tom Farmer should hand over his hoose, his businesses, his cars, his clothes, the whole ****ing lot and let the afflicted decide on his fate? We should frog march him doon Easter Road for his sins against humanity?

We have become pish but it is not down to Tom Farmer. Yes, some of it is down to the man he put in charge and more recently, I would consider Petrie (and the board) decisions to be wrong. Very wrong. Many times over.

HOWEVER, from what I can see, Farmer is taking steps to rectify this now. Too late? Who knows. We were ****ing winning the league cup a few years ago and beating top flight teams - I didnt hear anyone screaming for Farmer to sell up then, as he slipped a few thousand/**** knows how much or just simply stood behind our debt so the bank didnt pull the plug......we've been an up and down team for decades. We've been doing more of the same until we had the Calderwood damage and then we were doomed by the Butcher months. The rest is history.

:rolleyes:

I swear some folk cannot wait to see us relegated / go bust / something go wrong...

With respect, I think you are giving 'some people' undue prominence. From what I can see, the vast majority are (rightly) welcoming this, and are criticising those such as Paul Kane who seem too embittered to see the positives.

[Mikey]

http://www.buyhibs.org/about-buy-hibs/meet-the-team/

Back at ya. :wink:

If he's no longer involved, why is he still listed as a director?

For the same reason Pat Stanton is. They don't want people to know there's a split.

You won't find either of them involved though :wink:

[Bad Martini]

With respect, I think you are giving 'some people' undue prominence. From what I can see, the vast majority are (rightly) welcoming this, and are criticising those such as Paul Kane who seem too embittered to see the positives.

And with equal respect back mate, that's why I said "some" people :aok:

I do agree most sensible people would see the benefit in owing less money (Even when you owe it to yourself (c) Yamathematics) but equally, it pisses me off that irrespective of what is done, there is a number of folk who look for a stick to be hammer the club with.....then try to convince us all we are wrong and ironically, we are all hammering the club.

A****it. It's Christmas. The radgeness shall be on hold til 28th of Jan. Til then, let us ask Santa for Abramovich to find his Edinburgh anscestors and feel the need to drop a couple of hundred million oor way :aok::thumbsup:

[jacomo]

For the same reason Pat Stanton is. They don't want people to know there's a split.

You won't find either of them involved though :wink:

Interesting. Not surprising. And news to me that there is a split.

You can see my point though, surely... a lot of people (like me) will be assuming that these two are still involved with Buy Hibs, until such time they publicly disassociate themselves from it.

Why the split, btw? That didn't last long.

[Andy74]

And with equal respect back mate, that's why I said "some" people :aok:

I do agree most sensible people would see the benefit in owing less money (Even when you owe it to yourself (c) Yamathematics) but equally, it pisses me off that irrespective of what is done, there is a number of folk who look for a stick to be hammer the club with.....then try to convince us all we are wrong and ironically, we are all hammering the club.

A****it. It's Christmas. The radgeness shall be on hold til 28th of Jan. Til then, let us ask Santa for Abramovich to find his Edinburgh anscestors and feel the need to drop a couple of hundred million oor way :aok::thumbsup:

Sadly a couple of hundred million is only about three years turnover for Celtic. It wouldn't get us far for long!

[jacomo]

And with equal respect back mate, that's why I said "some" people :aok:

I do agree most sensible people would see the benefit in owing less money (Even when you owe it to yourself (c) Yamathematics) but equally, it pisses me off that irrespective of what is done, there is a number of folk who look for a stick to be hammer the club with.....then try to convince us all we are wrong and ironically, we are all hammering the club.

A****it. It's Christmas. The radgeness shall be on hold til 28th of Jan. Til then, let us ask Santa for Abramovich to find his Edinburgh anscestors and feel the need to drop a couple of hundred million oor way :aok::thumbsup:

Good call. McAbramovich loves the Hibees... I'm sure Loic Remy and Andre Schurrle are frustrated at their lack of starts and would like to 'test' themselves in the Scottish 2nd tier.

[Mikey]

Interesting. Not surprising. And news to me that there is a split.

You can see my point though, surely... a lot of people (like me) will be assuming that these two are still involved with Buy Hibs, until such time they publicly disassociate themselves from it.

Why the split, btw? That didn't last long.

I don't know exactly, but it happened very early and I'm fairly sure it's because some of the directors can't get on.

[matty_f]

I thought hibs had consulted with the fans over a series of consultation evenings and an online survey?

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

With respect, I think you are giving 'some people' undue prominence. From what I can see, the vast majority are (rightly) welcoming this, and are criticising those such as Paul Kane who seem too embittered to see the positives.

It would be interesting if he attributed names to the "some people".

[ancient hibee]

My guess here is that some of the debt will be transferred into the name of the holding company and out of the Club's debts.That will certainly include the stadium mortgage of £2.5million due to be repaid as a lump sum in 2020.As the loans are all secured presumably against the properties and possibly a STF guarantee this will require agreement from the bank.It may well be that the debt in the Hibs name is reduced but doesn't mean that the bank is writing anything off.

[Leithenhibby]

My guess here is that some of the debt will be transferred into the name of the holding company and out of the Club's debts.That will certainly include the stadium mortgage of £2.5million due to be repaid as a lump sum in 2020.As the loans are all secured presumably against the properties and possibly a STF guarantee this will require agreement from the bank.It may well be that the debt in the Hibs name is reduced but doesn't mean that the bank is writing anything off.

You could well be on the money! :wink:

[greenpaper55]

My guess here is that some of the debt will be transferred into the name of the holding company and out of the Club's debts.That will certainly include the stadium mortgage of £2.5million due to be repaid as a lump sum in 2020.As the loans are all secured presumably against the properties and possibly a STF guarantee this will require agreement from the bank.It may well be that the debt in the Hibs name is reduced but doesn't mean that the bank is writing anything off.

You could be right oh ancient one, it's hard to see why a bank would write off debts when we still have the ability to service these debts.

[southsider]

My guess here is that some of the debt will be transferred into the name of the holding company and out of the Club's debts.That will certainly include the stadium mortgage of £2.5million due to be repaid as a lump sum in 2020.As the loans are all secured presumably against the properties and possibly a STF guarantee this will require agreement from the bank.It may well be that the debt in the Hibs name is reduced but doesn't mean that the bank is writing anything off.

If the proposal is to transfer the debt from the club to HFC holdings then how is that reducing the debt. The football club will still be due to repay the money, to whom it maters not. If, however STF transfers the debt into a personal account or company then the amount due by our football club will be greatly reduced and a more level playing field would ensure. It may be that STF pays this debt in exchange for the excess (50 acres ?) land at EM. There were rumours of a private school/hospital being built.

[Ozyhibby]

http://www.buyhibs.org/about-buy-hibs/meet-the-team/

Back at ya. :wink:

If he's no longer involved, why is he still listed as a director?

According to some on here, Petrie is no longer involved at Hibs even though he is the chairman.

[Bad Martini]

It would be interesting if he attributed names to the "some people".

Not really. If you read all the pages of this thread and indeed any number of other threads you will see the posters I am referring to. I am nae happy clapper and God knows I can moan and grumble about goings on down Easter Road but we could at least wait til something negative occurs sometimes.

[CropleyWasGod]

According to some on here, Petrie is no longer involved at Hibs even though he is the chairman.

Non-executive chair.

[Peevemor]

According to some on here, Petrie is no longer involved at Hibs even though he is the chairman.

Who said that?

[Ozyhibby]

You could be right oh ancient one, it's hard to see why a bank would write off debts when we still have the ability to service these debts.

The bank may need cash?
The bank may have already written down all football debts and is looking for a way out altogether?

[Andy74]

According to some on here, Petrie is no longer involved at Hibs even though he is the chairman.

No, I think those people have been making the point that as non executive chair he is no longer involved in managing and leading the club on a day to day basis.

[Bad Martini]

Good call. McAbramovich loves the Hibees... I'm sure Loic Remy and Andre Schurrle are frustrated at their lack of starts and would like to 'test' themselves in the Scottish 2nd tier.

Scottish second tier is where it's at mate :greengrin

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

Not really. If you read all the pages of this thread and indeed any number of other threads you will see the posters I am referring to. I am nae happy clapper and God knows I can moan and grumble about goings on down Easter Road but we could at least wait til something negative occurs sometimes.

I don't remember reading any threads where folk cannae wait for us to go bust/ get relegated.

[jacomo]

Sadly a couple of hundred million is only about three years turnover for Celtic. It wouldn't get us far for long!

You're joking, right?

[MB62]

Surely the refusal by BH to meet with the board when offered made them hostile so why on earth would the club inform them before anybody else about this?

You're not talking to us so we're not talking to you, so there, na na na na na.

All a bit childish stuff which ultimately is irrelevant to STF trying to do a deal with the banks.

I think maybe where Kano is coming from is, If the board had mentioned this was ongoing then they could have taken a back seat and not bothered by their fans buyout scheme. Of course maybe it was BH who kicked STF into gear to get this done but whatever happened, the main thing is STF is trying to clear up some debt from the club and I couldn't care who has their nose out of joint or throwing rattles out the pram, if it's for the betterment of the club then tough.

[blackpoolhibs]

I don't remember reading any threads where folk cannae wait for us to go bust/ get relegated.

I have seen posts where folk have compared us to Leeds United and Portsmouth. :greengrin

[Andy74]

I don't remember reading any threads where folk cannae wait for us to go bust/ get relegated.

No but some seem to take a bit of enjoyment on dwelling on such things.

We lost for the first time in ages at the weekend and you were pretty quickly on for example to talk about not being able to get your head around us having been relegated. Quite a few folk on Sarurday night seemed to be quite in their element talking about how terrible just about everything was and still is.

[Bad Martini]

I don't remember reading any threads where folk cannae wait for us to go bust/ get relegated.

Fair dues but plenty folk seem to be permanently complaining about something or someone. I also agree, some will no doubt be undercover yams having a wind up but no them all. Anyways, my perception of things. Only my humble opinion mind...

[Andy74]

You're not talking to us so we're not talking to you, so there, na na na na na.

All a bit childish stuff which ultimately is irrelevant to STF trying to do a deal with the banks.

I think maybe where Kano is coming from is, If the board had mentioned this was ongoing then they could have taken a back seat and not bothered by their fans buyout scheme. Of course maybe it was BH who kicked STF into gear to get this done but whatever happened, the main thing is STF is trying to clear up some debt from the club and I couldn't care who has their nose out of joint or throwing rattles out the pram, if it's for the betterment of the club then tough.

BuyHibs have been fully aware that the club has been consulting fans and that they had their own ideas that they would be sharing. They were offered a meeting with the board too.

They could have taken a back seat, or not launched at all, until they knew those plans.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

No but some seem to take a bit of enjoyment on dwelling on such things.

We lost for the first time in ages at the weekend and you were pretty quickly on for example to talk about not being able to get your head around us having been relegated. Quite a few folk on Sarurday night seemed to be quite in their element talking about how terrible just about everything was and still is.

I couldnae get my head round it at 1455 on Saturday or just now either. If we were currently where Hearts are in the league I still wouldnae be able to get my head around it.

[BSEJVT]

In fairness to Kano, what, exactly, is wrong with this?

“It’s a little bit disappointing that they won’t be coming to the fans with proposals,” he said. “From the sounds of the statement they are too far down the line for this to be called a proposal, but the fans don’t just have to accept it. They have to prove that this is right for the club. It could be a pivotal moment in the history of our football club and we will wait to see what they say on the 28th. That’s when the Hibs support will hear what has been going on behind the scenes and that is when the Hibs support will make their judgment.”

STF reduces the debt, then what? Paul's complaint seems to be that whatever STF and the board have planned AFTER that they have not consulted properly with the fans about it. Is STF planning on selling the club? If so, to whom? Is he - like some rather paranoid folk on Facebook are suggesting - planning on moving the club to Straiton to groundshare with Hertz? Is he planning on converting all or part of the club (Easter Road, East Mains, the football club) into a Community Interest Company?

Honest to God

Its his to do with as he sees fit.

Once he has done with it what he thinks fit if the bleating wannabe owners want to take it on they can, if they don't they don't.

Ultimately in any transaction there needs to be a willingness to sell and one to buy.

In the unlikely event that any proposed reduction of debt is against the clubs interests, then there wont be that willingness and until either or both parties change tack there will be no agreement.

Methinks that the wannabe owners have just had one of their main hitting sticks removed and are kicking off because they know it.

Now if Rod Petrie were to go and the clubs fixed assets were to go into a Community Trust, that would make things interesting.

I am sure at that time all those who have slandered STF and questioned his motivations will be in a mad rush to get on here and apologise. Aye Right

The problem with most of these folk is that they have tried judging him by their standards and morals and whilst they always come up pitifully short on decency and honour he hasn't.

[BSEJVT]

I think there's a wee bit fault on both sides here.
BH should have probably met with the board as a first step and the board should have mentioned to BH about these moves to the bank, even just out of common courtesy.

Noses out of joint, that's all, now move along chaps.

Or in the real business world, confidential negotiations are just that until they are concluded

It would be a crying shame if someone's mates indiscretion caused this "deal" to fall apart

[brog]

Interesting. Not surprising. And news to me that there is a split.

You can see my point though, surely... a lot of people (like me) will be assuming that these two are still involved with Buy Hibs, until such time they publicly disassociate themselves from it.

Why the split, btw? That didn't last long.

Mikey, who I greatly respect, has been saying this for weeks now. It didn't fit with my info a week or so back & AFAIK no other poster has said this. It's probably best not to let this become a Net Fact for now!

[jacomo]

BuyHibs have been fully aware that the club has been consulting fans and that they had their own ideas that they would be sharing. They were offered a meeting with the board too.

They could have taken a back seat, or not launched at all, until they knew those plans.

A couple of weeks ago, you were criticising Buy Hibs because there was no need to consider an alternative ownership model at this time and there was no indication that STF wouldn't continue indefinitely as owner.

Now you criticise them for not waiting until Hibs announce their own 'plans for the future'.

By all means criticise them as you see fit, but at least be consistent. You come across as an arch apologist for the current regime, who will grab at anything to criticise others. In its way, this is as corrosive as the people who bump and moan all the time.

[Andy74]

A couple of weeks ago, you were criticising Buy Hibs because there was no need to consider an alternative ownership model at this time and there was no indication that STF wouldn't continue indefinitely as owner.

Now you criticise them for not waiting until Hibs announce their own 'plans for the future'.

By all means criticise them as you see fit, but at least be consistent. You come across as an arch apologist for the current regime, who will grab at anything to criticise others. In its way, this is as corrosive as the people who bump and moan all the time.

It's the same point - there is no indication that we need to pursue new ownership and there was no appetite for fans from the survey the club undertook. Unless and until the club indicated that they needed us to look at this type of arrangement then they should not have launched.

Since then of course there has been lots to criticise about how they have behaved since launch even if you did support the view that it is needed.

Ah, here we have the arch apologist type line again, very good.

[jacomo]

It's the same point - there is no indication that we need to pursue new ownership and there was no appetite for fans from the survey the club undertook. Unless and until the club indicated that they needed us to look at this type of arrangement then they should not have launched.

Since then of course there has been lots to criticise about how they have behaved since launch even if you did support the view that it is needed.

Ah, here we have the arch apologist type line again, very good.

Oh, so fans have no role to play and nothing to discuss 'unless and until' the club tells them they need to look at something? This is a very patronising attitude, is it not?

Did Hands Off Hibs and SUABC wait to be told what to do before those campaigns started?

As for arch apologist line, I believe that's the first time I've used it! :wink:

[Juice-Terry]

Honest to God

Its his to do with as he sees fit.

Once he has done with it what he thinks fit if the bleating wannabe owners want to take it on they can, if they don't they don't.

Ultimately in any transaction there needs to be a willingness to sell and one to buy.

In the unlikely event that any proposed reduction of debt is against the clubs interests, then there wont be that willingness and until either or both parties change tack there will be no agreement.

Methinks that the wannabe owners have just had one of their main hitting sticks removed and are kicking off because they know it.

Now if Rod Petrie were to go and the clubs fixed assets were to go into a Community Trust, that would make things interesting.

I am sure at that time all those who have slandered STF and questioned his motivations will be in a mad rush to get on here and apologise. Aye Right

The problem with most of these folk is that they have tried judging him by their standards and morals and whilst they always come up pitifully short on decency and honour he hasn't.

What's with this 'wannabe owners' pish? Have you actually read or listened to anything BH have said?

[Andy74]

Oh, so fans have no role to play and nothing to discuss 'unless and until' the club tells them they need to look at something? This is a very patronising attitude, is it not?

Did Hands Off Hibs and SUABC wait to be told what to do before those campaigns started?

As for arch apologist line, I believe that's the first time I've used it! :wink:

Okay, I don't think I explained myself very well.

I'm not interested in owning a football club or paying money over to be part of a scheme that owns a football club. As I understand it the club is not being marketed for sale.

IF HOWEVER I was being told that actually I did need to do something because the current owner wants out or doesn't have a plan beyond his own lifetime then I may be persuaded to have to do something, a bit like Hearts fans did, to ensure our survival.

From what I heard at the consultation nights and what I read after the club survey that it is pretty much the majority view.

In that sense, and given they have made certain assumptions about the bank writing off debt and Sir Tom handing over assets, BuyHibs would have been better advised to see what the club's plans actually are and what Sir Tom's intentions are. They certainly should have spoken to the board after they launched when invited.

[DarlingtonHibee]

Guys

I'm travelling and booked trains etc on the assumption of evening meeting - phoned Hibs (nice lady), she phoned back to say no confirmed time yet - I was assuming it would be evening, but I do recall an afternoon AGM once.

[Andy74]

What's with this 'wannabe owners' pish? Have you actually read or listened to anything BH have said?

From their website. The company wants to own Hibs:


A new ownership model for Hibs
BuyHibs propose a new ownership model with three key elements:

Sir Tom Farmer to retain a 26% interest as a golden share
BuyHibs – with the backing of Hibs supporters – and Sir Tom Farmer to own a majority (ie over 50%) of Hibs
Allow investors to make an investment and bring their own expertise and experience to the board of Hibernian Football Club

[jacomo]

Okay, I don't think I explained myself very well.

I'm not interested in owning a football club or paying money over to be part of a scheme that owns a football club. As I understand it the club is not being marketed for sale.

IF HOWEVER I was being told that actually I did need to do something because the current owner wants out or doesn't have a plan beyond his own lifetime then I may be persuaded to have to do something, a bit like Hearts fans did, to ensure our survival.

From what I heard at the consultation nights and what I read after the club survey that it is pretty much the majority view.

In that sense, and given they have made certain assumptions about the bank writing off debt and Sir Tom handing over assets, BuyHibs would have been better advised to see what the club's plans actually are and what Sir Tom's intentions are. They certainly should have spoken to the board after they launched when invited.

No arguments from me about the poor way BuyHibs have gone about things.

By luck or judgement though, they were on to something about the debt reorganisation. And now the club is talking about the club's 'long term future' - this is corporate speak for a change in ownership, often used to signal a forthcoming IPO or similar.

I don't want STF to go to be honest as the positives far outweigh the negatives, but I have reservations about the instincts of those who run the club for him based on the past several years. As I have said many times, IMO Leeann has made a promising but far from flawless start.

Based on the assumption that something is indeed afoot, I would rather we fans were engaged in this process. The rows on here have been heated at times but mostly constructive. And I am happy for any fan to put their head above the parapet and suggest an alternative way forward.

[Juice-Terry]

From their website. The company wants to own Hibs:


A new ownership model for Hibs
BuyHibs propose a new ownership model with three key elements:

Sir Tom Farmer to retain a 26% interest as a golden share
BuyHibs – with the backing of Hibs supporters – and Sir Tom Farmer to own a majority (ie over 50%) of Hibs
Allow investors to make an investment and bring their own expertise and experience to the board of Hibernian Football Club

Fair enough. If 'wannabe owners' refers to those who would own the majority of Hibs according to their proposal (i.e. STF and the Hibs community via a CIC) then I stand corrected.

[superfurryhibby]

Correct, they have absolutely no status to be briefed or consulted on anything.

Albeit that the board set some sort of precedent by meeting Hands on Hibs, who have equally no status for any briefing or consultation? Perhaps that might be viewed as a mistake by the board?

[CropleyWasGod]

Albeit that the board set some sort of precedent by meeting Hands on Hibs, who have equally no status for any briefing or consultation? Perhaps that might be viewed as a mistake by the board?

There are those who suspect that that meeting was designed to tell HoH to cut out the slanderous stuff. :cb

[Golden Bear]

There are those who suspect that that meeting was designed to tell HoH to cut out the slanderous stuff. :cb

I would like to think that this was the case as some of the stuff they were coming out with was well out of order.

[Bostonhibby]

No arguments from me about the poor way BuyHibs have gone about things.

By luck or judgement though, they were on to something about the debt reorganisation. And now the club is talking about the club's 'long term future' - this is corporate speak for a change in ownership, often used to signal a forthcoming IPO or similar.

I don't want STF to go to be honest as the positives far outweigh the negatives, but I have reservations about the instincts of those who run the club for him based on the past several years. As I have said many times, IMO Leeann has made a promising but far from flawless start.

Based on the assumption that something is indeed afoot, I would rather we fans were engaged in this process. The rows on here have been heated at times but mostly constructive. And I am happy for any fan to put their head above the parapet and suggest an alternative way forward.

:agree: Maybe got a wee whiff of what was actually happening and as STF was the only one who could actually do something about it, they opted for an announcement rather than doing nothing then disappearing?:dunno:

In the short to medium term the banks were always more likely to do something with someone they were familiar with and had a background of meeting their obligations (not the yam model) rather than being on a promise of maybe doing a deal sometime if enough people chip in - short term non starter anyway, not because the proposition of a takeover paid for in time is a non starter but Hibs happen to have someone with real cash and clout as an owner to do something now which is what the banks want, and that's how Britain works - not a lot to do with football really, and sadly.

[Andy74]

No arguments from me about the poor way BuyHibs have gone about things.

By luck or judgement though, they were on to something about the debt reorganisation. And now the club is talking about the club's 'long term future' - this is corporate speak for a change in ownership, often used to signal a forthcoming IPO or similar.

I don't want STF to go to be honest as the positives far outweigh the negatives, but I have reservations about the instincts of those who run the club for him based on the past several years. As I have said many times, IMO Leeann has made a promising but far from flawless start.

Based on the assumption that something is indeed afoot, I would rather we fans were engaged in this process. The rows on here have been heated at times but mostly constructive. And I am happy for any fan to put their head above the parapet and suggest an alternative way forward.

Luck I'd say. What they were asking for was a total write off at the bank using examples that weren't really relevant. That won't be what is happening.

[Bostonhibby]

Okay, I don't think I explained myself very well.

I'm not interested in owning a football club or paying money over to be part of a scheme that owns a football club. As I understand it the club is not being marketed for sale.

IF HOWEVER I was being told that actually I did need to do something because the current owner wants out or doesn't have a plan beyond his own lifetime then I may be persuaded to have to do something, a bit like Hearts fans did, to ensure our survival.

From what I heard at the consultation nights and what I read after the club survey that it is pretty much the majority view.

In that sense, and given they have made certain assumptions about the bank writing off debt and Sir Tom handing over assets, BuyHibs would have been better advised to see what the club's plans actually are and what Sir Tom's intentions are. They certainly should have spoken to the board after they launched when invited.

:agree:Again- in the real world the bank don't just write of assets where the liable party has a good reputation for repaying (not defaulting or hiding per the yam model) They are even less likely to do it if the man sitting behind it is committed to the business and is guaranteeing the liability if that is what STF does for Hibs.

Another sizable but not majority group should be listened to but if they are not able to do the same quickly, a bank won't be that bothered about their motives, cash and a decent business plan with cash behind it talks.

[JimBHibees]

There are those who suspect that that meeting was designed to tell HoH to cut out the slanderous stuff. :cb

I would imagine there is no doubt that was the case.

[Mikey]

There are those who suspect that that meeting was designed to tell HoH to cut out the slanderous stuff. :cb

A suspicion that is backed up by the fact that the slanderous stuff stopped immediately!

[superfurryhibby]

I would imagine there is no doubt that was the case.

Wouldn't a letter from a lawyer be more appropriate? :confused:

[CropleyWasGod]

Wouldn't a letter from a lawyer be more appropriate? :confused:

You don't know Rod very well, do you?

THAT WOULD COST MONEY!!!

:greengrin

[Bostonhibby]

You don't know Rod very well, do you?

THAT WOULD COST MONEY!!!

:greengrin

not if Rod has a no win no fee deal in the event of litigation:greengrin

[Mikey]

Wouldn't a letter from a lawyer be more appropriate? :confused:

The club wouldn't want to go down the legal route with a fans group unless absolutely necessary.

[Andy74]

BuyHibs have tweeted this afternoon that there is no change in their team and all of those on the team have an equal say in their decisions.

Andrew Sibley has also been tweeting asking what would happen if we had a debt free club but no assets.

[Bostonhibby]

BuyHibs have tweeted this afternoon that there is no change in their team and all of those on the team have an equal say in their decisions.

Andrew Sibley has also been tweeting asking what would happen if we had a debt free club but no assets.

Easy to be on the outside looking in and making big impact statements - if STF keeps ploughing on regardless the former is irrelevant and the latter remains hypothetical, if there was evidence of the threat mentioned wheel it out now as there is every chance of getting the fans on board and reversing the Buyhibs support deficit in my opinion otherwise there will be plenty talk and implication whilst STF moves towards delivering something.

[CropleyWasGod]

BuyHibs have tweeted this afternoon that there is no change in their team and all of those on the team have an equal say in their decisions.

Andrew Sibley has also been tweeting asking what would happen if we had a debt free club but no assets.

Responding here as well :greengrin

A debt-free club, £500k pa better off, using ER and EM for nothing? I'd go for that.

The financial relationship between the owners of the assets, and the club, would be the key for me.

[Andy74]

Easy to be on the outside looking in and making big impact statements - if STF keeps ploughing on regardless the former is irrelevant and the latter remains hypothetical, if there was evidence of the threat mentioned wheel it out now as there is every chance of getting the fans on board and reversing the Buyhibs support deficit in my opinion otherwise there will be plenty talk and implication whilst STF moves towards delivering something.

As I've just said on the PM board, their tone riles me as much as anything else. They have also tweeted about giving not taking.

Sir Tom could probably be accused of a few things in relation to his input and interest in the club but I'm in absolutely no doubt at all that anything he has done financially has been for the benefit of the club and whatever deal or plan he comes up with will also be intended to be for our benefit.

All this insinuation about asset stripping and taking from the club is very unhelpful as is the rhetoric around the suggestion that he should just be giving things to the community.

[blackpoolhibs]

BuyHibs have tweeted this afternoon that there is no change in their team and all of those on the team have an equal say in their decisions.

Andrew Sibley has also been tweeting asking what would happen if we had a debt free club but no assets.

This lot make me laugh, they don't mind asking questions but don't like and very often take offence at questions they are asked.

[jacomo]

BuyHibs have tweeted this afternoon that there is no change in their team and all of those on the team have an equal say in their decisions.

Andrew Sibley has also been tweeting asking what would happen if we had a debt free club but no assets.

Ok Buy Hibs and HoH are supposed to be separate entities, but they both like this asset-stripping innuendo don't they? Both of them should either put up or shut up.

[Bostonhibby]

Responding here as well :greengrin

A debt-free club, £500k pa better off, using ER and EM for nothing? I'd go for that.

The financial relationship between the owners of the assets, and the club, would be the key for me.



Do you mean as in who owns the assets? i.e a Hibs friendly not for profit trust, or similar?

[CropleyWasGod]

[/B]

Do you mean as in who owns the assets? i.e a Hibs friendly not for profit trust, or similar?

Yeah, sorry, not been very clear.

If, as has been suggested, ER and EM are moved out of the club, it would (presumably and hopefully) be to a Trust, in order to protect them for the future.

How that Trust was set up, and who the Trustees were, would also be important for me.

[ancient hibee]

If the proposal is to transfer the debt from the club to HFC holdings then how is that reducing the debt. The football club will still be due to repay the money, to whom it maters not. If, however STF transfers the debt into a personal account or company then the amount due by our football club will be greatly reduced and a more level playing field would ensure. It may be that STF pays this debt in exchange for the excess (50 acres ?) land at EM. There were rumours of a private school/hospital being built.

You misunderstand.If the debt is transferred to HFC then HFC will owe the money and due to repay it not the football club.

[The Falcon]

Paul Kane hasn't been involved with BuyHibs since the day of the launch. Even the description of him in the paper leaves out his involvement.....
Shouldn't that say "Former player Paul Kane, Director of BuyHibs......". I'm sure it would if he still was :wink:




https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/3401909489/90a92f7a90763d4234901502de9ec939_bigger.jpegGuy Falken ‏@Proff_Falken (https://twitter.com/Proff_Falken) 5h5 hours ago (https://twitter.com/Proff_Falken/status/542659733061394432)
@BuyHibs (https://twitter.com/BuyHibs) Is Paul Kane still a Director with Buy Hibs? And is he involved in the day to day decisions?
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https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/507906021172334593/le6U3oRF_bigger.pngBuy Hibs ‏@BuyHibs (https://twitter.com/BuyHibs) 1h1 hour ago (https://twitter.com/BuyHibs/status/542718500243243010)
@Proff_Falken (https://twitter.com/Proff_Falken) the is no change in the team, and those on the team have equal say on decisions.



8:32 AM - 10 Dec 2014 · Details (https://twitter.com/BuyHibs/status/542718500243243010)

[CropleyWasGod]

You misunderstand.If the debt is transferred to HFC then HFC will owe the money and due to repay it not the football club.

Not sure if HFC Holdings can afford to service the debt. Other than the £24k pa for the ticket office, they have no income.

[ancient hibee]

Not sure if HFC Holdings can afford to service the debt. Other than the £24k pa for the ticket office, they have no income.

But they may have other financial irons coming to the fire.

[CropleyWasGod]

But they may have other financial irons coming to the fire.

They may, but the debts currently cost us £500k pa to service. Those irons will have to be bloody big ones. :greengrin

[Bostonhibby]

Yeah, sorry, not been very clear.

If, as has been suggested, ER and EM are moved out of the club, it would (presumably and hopefully) be to a Trust, in order to protect them for the future.

How that Trust was set up, and who the Trustees were, would also be important for me.

:thumbsup: Should have looked at your input on PM board first! Down to cost to the football team, if any, of using the assets(?) others can opine from the fringes but STF has the assets and his goodwill or otherwise will be evidenced by what he actually does re charges if this goes down the trust path..........

[ancient hibee]

They may, but the debts currently cost us £500k pa to service. Those irons will have to be bloody big ones. :greengrin

Movement in the Duddingston portfolio maybe leading to future extensive property development in East Lothian:greengrin

[CropleyWasGod]

:thumbsup: Should have looked at your input on PM board first! Down to cost to the football team, if any, of using the assets(?) others can opine from the fringes but STF has the assets and his goodwill or otherwise will be evidenced by what he actually does re charges if this goes down the trust path..........

Absolutely.

You realise that we'll be speculating about this until the AGM..... :cb

[Mikey]

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/3401909489/90a92f7a90763d4234901502de9ec939_bigger.jpegGuy Falken ‏@Proff_Falken (https://twitter.com/Proff_Falken) 5h5 hours ago (https://twitter.com/Proff_Falken/status/542659733061394432)
@BuyHibs (https://twitter.com/BuyHibs) Is Paul Kane still a Director with Buy Hibs? And is he involved in the day to day decisions?
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https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/507906021172334593/le6U3oRF_bigger.pngBuy Hibs ‏@BuyHibs (https://twitter.com/BuyHibs) 1h1 hour ago (https://twitter.com/BuyHibs/status/542718500243243010)
@Proff_Falken (https://twitter.com/Proff_Falken) the is no change in the team, and those on the team have equal say on decisions.



8:32 AM - 10 Dec 2014 · Details (https://twitter.com/BuyHibs/status/542718500243243010)






That's nice.

I'll stick to my understanding of the lie of the land though :wink:

[CropleyWasGod]

Movement in the Duddingston portfolio maybe leading to future extensive property development in East Lothian:greengrin

Rod getting an extension done? :greengrin

[Bostonhibby]

Absolutely.

You realise that we'll be specualting about this until the AGM..... :cb

Subject to what emerges from Buyhibs or any other group between then and now I am going to butt out now until facts emerge - sair heid:greengrin

[jacomo]

:thumbsup: Should have looked at your input on PM board first! Down to cost to the football team, if any, of using the assets(?) others can opine from the fringes but STF has the assets and his goodwill or otherwise will be evidenced by what he actually does re charges if this goes down the trust path..........

It will always be impossible to assess STF's overall contribution to Hibs until the day he passes the baton over to someone else. It does seem as though he is trying to put some sort of lock on the real estate assets though to protect the club from future trouble

[Bostonhibby]

It will always be impossible to assess STF's overall contribution to Hibs until the day he passes the baton over to someone else. It does seem as though he is trying to put some sort of lock on the real estate assets though to protect the club from future trouble

:agree: and that's one scenario consistent with what Andrew Sibley seems to have asked us to think about, if you are right it looks good so its possible to suggest a good outcome as well as hint at a bad one without actually following it up with any evidence?

[emerald green]

Most likely the same ones who call Rankers cheats and don't see the comparisons.

:agree:


I just had a squint across on brokeback. They aren't very bright are they?

:agree: That's putting it very mildly.

[The Green Goblin]

Don't rule out Mr Skellet being our new owner.

Christ.

[Beefster]

Andrew Sibley has also been tweeting asking what would happen if we had a debt free club but no assets.

I think their only remaining strategies are ****-stirring and scaremongering.

[bingo70]

Christ.

At least he had the sense to distance himself from buyhibs.

[Leithenhibby]

At least he had the sense to distance himself from buyhibs.

Has He though? :wink:

[bingo70]

Has He though? :wink:

Buyhibs on here said they spoke initially but he decided to go down a different route.

Was on the thread mikey started, cannae mind what it was called though.

[whiskyhibby]

Yeah, sorry, not been very clear.

If, as has been suggested, ER and EM are moved out of the club, it would (presumably and hopefully) be to a Trust, in order to protect them for the future.

How that Trust was set up, and who the Trustees were, would also be important for me.

It would make sense for the trust to be current Hibs shareholders

[CropleyWasGod]

It would make sense for the trust to be current Hibs shareholders
There's hunners of us....cannae see that :)

[SunshineOnLeith]

I wish BuyHibs would just, go away. They're awful.

[Leithenhibby]

Buyhibs on here said they spoke initially but he decided to go down a different route.

Was on the thread mikey started, cannae mind what it was called though.


That'll be that then :wink:. If, and it's a big IF, RS isn't connected to BuyHibs in some shape of form, I'd be very surprised, IMO :cb

[The Green Goblin]

That'll be that then :wink:. If, and it's a big IF, RS isn't connected to BuyHibs in some shape of form, I'd be very surprised, IMO :cb

Yup. There was a fantastic politician's sentence in their reply on here addressing this very question that said something like "we are open to all Hibs minded people" after stressing that RS wasn't part of BuyHibs. :greengrin

[southsider]

Responding here as well :greengrin

A debt-free club, £500k pa better off, using ER and EM for nothing? I'd go for that.

The financial relationship between the owners of the assets, and the club, would be the key for me.

Only in the last possible case does one sell the family silver to pay the Taly man.Our football club needs to keep all our assets together.

[Jack]

Albeit that the board set some sort of precedent by meeting Hands on Hibs, who have equally no status for any briefing or consultation? Perhaps that might be viewed as a mistake by the board?

Hibs, Leeann, has stated that they would be willing to talk with anyone about the club. HoH, to their credit I'd say, took up that offer, BH didn't and following the events of the last couple of days that's been an even bigger mistake, IMO, than previously thought.

LD has said a number of times that in addition to the consultation evenings she has met with supporters, including Working Together to get their views. I have no doubt if a group of people from here wanted to meet with her it would happen.

I don't honestly see how not meeting with BH could be described as a mistake by the club/board/LD.

[CropleyWasGod]

Only in the last possible case does one sell the family silver to pay the Taly man.Our football club needs to keep all our assets together.
Partly playing Devil's Advocate here, but why?

If it's part of an overall package that saves us £500k pa, isn't that a good thing?

[greenginger]

It would make sense for the trust to be current Hibs shareholders


Its actually the Aims of the Trust that will be the most important point.

Trustees will come and go, but if the trust aims are properly defined and solely for the benefit of Hibernian F C it would be a very good arrangement.

Prevents any over ambitious , un-realistic owners hawking the stadium to a real-estate company for a couple of years high spending and finding out we are screwed for rent for evermore.

[Sergio sledge]

Hibs, Leeann, has stated that they would be willing to talk with anyone about the club. HoH, to their credit I'd say, took up that offer, BH didn't and following the events of the last couple of days that's been an even bigger mistake, IMO, than previously thought.

LD has said a number of times that in addition to the consultation evenings she has met with supporters, including Working Together to get their views. I have no doubt if a group of people from here wanted to meet with her it would happen.

I don't honestly see how not meeting with BH could be described as a mistake by the club/board/LD.

:agree: Given Andrew Sibley and NW's attitudes towards Leeann Dempster on this messageboard it's very easy to suspect that they have allowed their personal feelings to get in the way of BuyHibs' stated aims.

No blame can be laid at the clubs door for BuyHibs not knowing about any bank debt deal, BuyHibs were the ones who refused to meet the board.

[JimBHibees]

:agree: Given Andrew Sibley and NW's attitudes towards Leeann Dempster on this messageboard it's very easy to suspect that they have allowed their personal feelings to get in the way of BuyHibs' stated aims.

No blame can be laid at the clubs door for BuyHibs not knowing about any bank debt deal, BuyHibs were the ones who refused to meet the board.

I agree with that and to be honest the clumsy wording round Leeann on their website in their initial launch IMO indicated an antipathy towards her also for some reason.

[southsider]

Partly playing Devil's Advocate here, but why?

If it's part of an overall package that saves us £500k pa, isn't that a good thing?
The same way most people choice to buy a house/flat rather than rent. So they have an asset to leave their family or to sell on later. i don't have to tell you about companies having assets,and how important that is.

[whiskyhibby]

Its actually the Aims of the Trust that will be the most important point.

Trustees will come and go, but if the trust aims are properly defined and solely for the benefit of Hibernian F C it would be a very good arrangement.

Prevents any over ambitious , un-realistic owners hawking the stadium to a real-estate company for a couple of years high spending and finding out we are screwed for rent for evermore.

Agree the aims and constitution of the trust are critical to ensuring the long term future for the stadium and EM

[CropleyWasGod]

The same way most people choice to buy a house/flat rather than rent. So they have an asset to leave their family or to sell on later. i don't have to tell you about companies having assets,and how important that is.

The suggested scenario is different to the house one, though.

If the stadium is in a trust, then it is held for future generations. In your terms, it is left to the family.

Companies having assets, such as property, are more attractive to lenders because they have that property. In the suggested scenario, we will not need lenders.

I'm not convinced either way yet. As I've said, the detail of the "rent" or other arrangement will be key to all of this.

[chippy]

Its actually the Aims of the Trust that will be the most important point.

Trustees will come and go, but if the trust aims are properly defined and solely for the benefit of Hibernian F C it would be a very good arrangement.

Prevents any over ambitious , un-realistic owners hawking the stadium to a real-estate company for a couple of years high spending and finding out we are screwed for rent for evermore.
You make excellent points and I agree. What it would bring into sharp relief is that we the fans are likely to be the main source of capital raising as you could not risk the locked assets. We are then into the scenario of pledges or better still a membership scheme to raise regular steady income over and above gate receipts and any sponsors /transfer cash. Great opportunity for us to use the fantastic assets and why not add members facilities to East Mains and Easter Road that could enhance the membership experience, broaden our membership base thus increasing community participation. That could be done steadily whilst prioritising the team. Whether it's BH or another scheme that gets broader support that seems to be the direction of travel or maybe I'm too optimistic?

[jacomo]

The suggested scenario is different to the house one, though.

If the stadium is in a trust, then it is held for future generations. In your terms, it is left to the family.

Companies having assets, such as property, are more attractive to lenders because they have that property. In the suggested scenario, we will not need lenders.

I'm not convinced either way yet. As I've said, the detail of the "rent" or other arrangement will be key to all of this.

There are clear benefits to this arrangement, as in theory it could protect ER and EM in the event of FC getting into financial difficulty. I imagine STF would be horrified if a future owner decided to sell ER for real estate and move the club elsewhere, and this could be an effective block to this.

My gut reaction is still anti this kind of arrangement though. You have to be careful about dividing management focus and responsibilities. Hosting 20-25 football matches a year is Hibs' core business - as well as sending a team to participate in a similar number of matches elsewhere. I didnt like the old Lindsay/Hyland management split between ER and EM, which patently didn't work, and any future arrangement should not confuse the priorities of the club. I think there's been too much of this in the past.

[CropleyWasGod]

There are clear benefits to this arrangement, as in theory it could protect ER and EM in the event of FC getting into financial difficulty. I imagine STF would be horrified if a future owner decided to sell ER for real estate and move the club elsewhere, and this could be an effective block to this.

My gut reaction is still anti this kind of arrangement though. You have to be careful about dividing management focus and responsibilities. Hosting 20-25 football matches a year is Hibs' core business - as well as sending a team to participate in a similar number of matches elsewhere. I didnt like the old Lindsay/Hyland management split between ER and EM, which patently didn't work, and any future arrangement should not confuse the priorities of the club. I think there's been too much of this in the past.

Agreed.

But would there be a split? FC gets on with being a FC. Stadium gets on with being a stadium.... ie it just "is".

[jacomo]

Agreed.

But would there be a split? FC gets on with being a FC. Stadium gets on with being a stadium.... ie it just "is".

I see what you are saying, but I don't think public buildings ever just 'are'... they always need active management.

For example, from a stadium point if view, contracting out the catering makes perfect sense - you get a guaranteed rent, and don't have to employ your own team to do it.

However, you also lose control of an important element of the match day experience, and risk annoying your customers.

[CropleyWasGod]

I see what you are saying, but I don't think public buildings ever just 'are'... they always need active management.

For example, from a stadium point if view, contracting out the catering makes perfect sense - you get a guaranteed rent, and don't have to employ your own team to do it.

However, you also lose control of an important element of the match day experience, and risk annoying your customers.

I would have thought that the management of the stadium (ie the costs) would remain with the FC. In other words, no difference from what happens at the moment.

[Kaiser1962]

I would have thought that the management of the stadium (ie the costs) would remain with the FC. In other words, no difference from what happens at the moment.

In practical terms quite similar to when STF took over?

[CropleyWasGod]

In practical terms quite similar to when STF took over?

Probably, although my memory is a bit sketchy on that.

I don't see it as a major issue in terms of cost, for example.... depending on whether there is a rent charged.

It's the old head vs heart argument, in some ways.

[greenginger]

Ongoing maintenance and improvements are costs that have to be met. That can either be by an annual rent or a direct charge by the infrastructure trustees to the football club.

I can see there being a problem if the trustees want the steps painted and the football club think it can wait another year ! :greengrin

[ancient hibee]

Do the Milan clubs still play at the municipally owned stadium?Can't say it's done them a lot of harm.