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View Full Version : Will Craig ever completely turn it round with the support ?



worcesterhibby
02-12-2014, 01:40 PM
There were plenty on here who would have happily paid for a taxi out of ER for Liam Craig at the end of last season and there are very few of us who have not been critical of him on this forum (myself included). In my opinion however, Liam is gradually playing better and better in a Hibs jersey at the moment and very often seems to be involved in the moves that lead to Hibs goals. With Scott Robertson playing the "Matty Jack" role at the back of the midfield it seems to have freed up Liam to get forward more and influence games. He got his first goal of the season at the weekend, but what would he have to do for you to make him one of the first names on the team sheet ?

Viva_Palmeiras
02-12-2014, 01:46 PM
Many of the recent polls are skewed due to a lack of "none of the above (please explain...)" option.

i don't think my opinion of him will change. I think he's a decent player but for whatever reason been heavily affected by the demands of the captains role at Hibs. He probably shouldn't have got the captains role and certainly not by default he needed to show the leadership qualities required.

If he hadn't been given captaincy or if TBs management and tactics hadn't been route 1 we might have formed a different view. It's like he lost his mojo and despite trying he cannot rekindle the desire.

I think he needs to hang in there, perform and score goals like the start of his Hibs career. But think he's lost the opportunity for a second/third chance with many of the support.

Pretty Boy
02-12-2014, 01:51 PM
He's played well the last few weeks.

The criticism he got last season was fierce but I'd argue much of it was justified. He's a high profile player and club captain and he waa hiding last season and playing like a man who knew the writing was on the wall with regards to relegation. That's always going to take time for fans to get over.

The last few weeks has seen a manager with a clue play to his strengths, he's battled away and is gradually starting to influence games. Any praise he gets is as justified as the criticism of last season. There will always be some who will never 'forgive'. For me if he keeps playing well I'll judge him on that.

Billy Whizz
02-12-2014, 01:54 PM
He has already

monktonharp
02-12-2014, 01:59 PM
he was one of the main reasons we got relegated, imho. he ran about like a headless chicken at times, continually got booked when making tackles that were never "on". he then continually moaned and groaned to referees and did not act like a captain.

MB62
02-12-2014, 02:00 PM
I thought he played quite well against QoSth recently, only to get back to the pub after the game where all started slagging him for being too 'side ways'.

There's no pleasing some people (that's just what Jesus said sir) :greengrin

Billy Whizz
02-12-2014, 02:04 PM
As an aside, hope he's fit for the weekend

CallumLaidlaw
02-12-2014, 02:10 PM
He's played well the last few weeks.

The criticism he got last season was fierce but I'd argue much of it was justified. He's a high profile player and club captain and he waa hiding last season and playing like a man who knew the writing was on the wall with regards to relegation. That's always going to take time for fans to get over.

The last few weeks has seen a manager with a clue play to his strengths, he's battled away and is gradually starting to influence games. Any praise he gets is as justified as the criticism of last season. There will always be some who will never 'forgive'. For me if he keeps playing well I'll judge him on that.

Agree with this 100%. If he gets back to playing consistently for us, then I'm happy with that. But some will never forgive.

NAE NOOKIE
02-12-2014, 02:12 PM
He's played well the last few weeks.

The criticism he got last season was fierce but I'd argue much of it was justified. He's a high profile player and club captain and he waa hiding last season and playing like a man who knew the writing was on the wall with regards to relegation. That's always going to take time for fans to get over.

The last few weeks has seen a manager with a clue play to his strengths, he's battled away and is gradually starting to influence games. Any praise he gets is as justified as the criticism of last season. There will always be some who will never 'forgive'. For me if he keeps playing well I'll judge him on that.

This :agree:

InterviewLoI
02-12-2014, 02:19 PM
David Gray should be made club captain and Stevenson vice. Let Craig focus on getting back to his St. Johnstone/early Fenlon form.

patlowe
02-12-2014, 02:31 PM
The use of language like "forgive" is a bit much, he didn't deliberately set out to relegate Hibs last season.

Having said that, he was really awful last season and I haven't seen anything this season to suggest he's going to be a great player for Hibs. I think he has a few decent attributes, and don't mind having him around the squad, but in the long run I don't think he has the energy or character to play at the level we want to be at. Happy to be proved wrong on this, I've absolutely nothing against the guy.

worcesterhibby
02-12-2014, 02:33 PM
David Gray should be made club captain and Stevenson vice. Let Craig focus on getting back to his St. Johnstone/early Fenlon form.

I suppose it's always a difficult judgement call as to what works better...

A) Take the captaincy away to free the pressure and let him concentrate on his duties as a member of the team.
B) Take the captaincy away and it will be a big knock to his confidence and show a lack of trust from his manager just as he is starting to regain his form.

I think these are the sorts of decisions that are impossible to make "from the outside" without knowing the player and what makes him tick. Alan Stubbs has retained him as captain..I'm happy to back him on that, at least for this season.

worcesterhibby
02-12-2014, 02:33 PM
Many of the recent polls are skewed due to a lack of "none of the above (please explain...)" option.



Point taken :agree:

monktonharp
02-12-2014, 02:36 PM
David Gray should be made club captain and Stevenson vice. Let Craig focus on getting back to his St. Johnstone/early Fenlon form.let St Johnstone have him, for a small fee

21.05.2016
02-12-2014, 02:50 PM
The first half of last season I would say he was probably our best player, but after the new year derby he was awful. I thought he completely lacked in leadership and gave the ball away far to much. Howvever, he seems now to be finding his feet again and playing far better. Still not back to his best but a huge improvement from last season.

Nutmegged
02-12-2014, 02:57 PM
Will he turn it around? Who knows

Can he turn it around? Absolutely


we're a highly strung bunch at times with thirst for over expectation but deep down I also think wewe're a fair set of fans, if Liam Craig plays a big part in our promotion either through the Play-Off's this season or by winning the title next Season I'm pretty certain that fans will give him a fair crack, he went missing last year but he came here from a wee club, a club who've done well but small fry compared to Hibs, here he has this exoectation heaped on him and also given the Captains armband, I've no doubt that was a hinderence but what Professional would turn down the opportunity to be the Skipper?

He drowned in the sea of expectancy last year and you could see his game webt to bits, in this league he is a step ahead the majority of his opponents, hos manager is playing him in a morw familiar role and he now has a far better squad of players around him now IMO and that in turn should help.

patlowe
02-12-2014, 03:02 PM
The first half of last season I would say he was probably our best player, but after the new year derby he was awful. I thought he completely lacked in leadership and gave the ball away far to much. Howvever, he seems now to be finding his feet again and playing far better. Still not back to his best but a huge improvement from last season.

I personally didn't think he was that great in the first half of the season but at least he made some significant contributions I guess. Where I do agree is that after a very brief upturn in form when Butcher came in, his play completely deteriorated, admittedly as the team's did. From then on, his performances tended to consist of 'control, turn, hoof, repeat', it was eye-bleeding stuff and so poor that I just assumed it was what TB/MM were asking him to do. If they weren't then unfortunately I have to conclude that he just may not have the quality, leadership or composure to cope when the going really gets tough.

Smartie
02-12-2014, 03:09 PM
I'm delighted to be the first one to select the first option.

He's made mistakes - no doubt about it - and played a part in a relegation campaign. It's a long way back from there.

But he's made a huge contribution to our last 2 games - the kind of games we were struggling in earlier this season. He's been immense at Ibrox twice already this season and has contributed well in others. He's been dropped and then responded in the best way possible each time. It will be interesting to see what happens when McGeoch is fit again but I think Craig is versatile enough to play any of the 4 "diamond" positions we play at the moment.

His positive contributions during games are normally greeted with silence whereas his negative ones are met with howls of derision. I think he is showing leadership right now and I don't think that he does hide at all.

Most of all he has the backing of our manager and Stubbs has shown enough to me in his short time at Easter Road that he deserves our support and respect. If Craig is good enough in his eyes to be his leader on the park then he's good enough for me.

Waxy
02-12-2014, 03:12 PM
He has to chip in with a few goals.

Seven up
02-12-2014, 03:26 PM
If he scores the winner in the Scottish Cup Final then just maybe.....

Dashing Bob S
02-12-2014, 04:19 PM
Decent player, who was almost destroyed by Butcher making him the captain he so manifestly wasn't. Maybe he's grown into the role, if Stubbs thinks so, then fine. Time to get over it, get behind him and encourage his rehabilitation. Really don't see the point of a support doing anything other than supporting a team. Sure, we are paying good money and entitled to criticise, but dwelling on the past when there will always be a slew of fixtures ahead to anticipate, seems the ultimate exercise in futility.

patlowe
02-12-2014, 04:28 PM
Decent player, who was almost destroyed by Butcher making him the captain he so manifestly wasn't. Maybe he's grown into the role, if Stubbs thinks so, then fine. Time to get over it, get behind him and encourage his rehabilitation. Really don't see the point of a support doing anything other than supporting a team. Sure, we are paying good money and entitled to criticise, but dwelling on the past when there will always be a slew of fixtures ahead to anticipate, seems the ultimate exercise in futility.

"You have to know the past to understand the present" :wink:

3pm
02-12-2014, 04:32 PM
IMO, he cannot turn it round.

Danderhall Hibs
02-12-2014, 04:39 PM
Written off too soon. Them making him captain then dropping him all the time destroyed his confidence completely.

Hopefully he can come good, although some of the folk that sit in the f5 round me won't ever forgive. At the last home game he got the blame for something Gray done and got no credit for playing the exact same pass that Allan later played. Of course Allan received close to a standing ovation for his pass.

Golden Bear
02-12-2014, 04:41 PM
I hope so, the fact that he elected to stay at ER proves that he really does care to right last season's wrongs.

The Manager rates him and he rates the Manager and I think he'll go on to become the good player we all suspect he is.

snedzuk
02-12-2014, 04:49 PM
I'm delighted to be the first one to select the first option.

He's made mistakes - no doubt about it - and played a part in a relegation campaign. It's a long way back from there.

But he's made a huge contribution to our last 2 games - the kind of games we were struggling in earlier this season. He's been immense at Ibrox twice already this season and has contributed well in others. He's been dropped and then responded in the best way possible each time. It will be interesting to see what happens when McGeoch is fit again but I think Craig is versatile enough to play any of the 4 "diamond" positions we play at the moment.

His positive contributions during games are normally greeted with silence whereas his negative ones are met with howls of derision. I think he is showing leadership right now and I don't think that he does hide at all.

Most of all he has the backing of our manager and Stubbs has shown enough to me in his short time at Easter Road that he deserves our support and respect. If Craig is good enough in his eyes to be his leader on the park then he's good enough for me.

Completely agree with this - especially the highlighted bit. When hes been dropped his attitude with the other subs has been good plus I still remember his impassioned speech shortly after Stubbs took over about wanting to repay supporters. Ive always thought there was a player inside Liam Craig trying desparately to get out and I think were now starting to see that player. At the smaller grounds this season the players can obviously hear pretty clearly and it would be good to have some support and encouragement e.g. 'great goal Liam' when he's six feet away rather than some of the stuff I've heard this season.

7Hero
02-12-2014, 04:49 PM
failed in the "premier" league. Doing "OK" in the mickey mouse league.

Jury still out..

Lift the scottish cup ?

LEGEND..


christ i'm fickle...

:greengrin

Sir David Gray
02-12-2014, 04:49 PM
Liam Craig's a good player.

We haven't seen him play as well as we would have liked during his time with us so far but he's definitely one to keep hold of.

greenlex
02-12-2014, 05:03 PM
Absolutely no danger. If Lewis Stevenson can't Liam Craig has no chane

Pretty Boy
02-12-2014, 05:06 PM
Absolutely no danger. If Lewis Stevenson can't Liam Craig has no chane

Has Lewis not turned it round? If he ever had to.

Every Hibs fan I know rates Lewis and a hell of a lot of people on here do as well. There's a vocal minority who don't but I'm pretty confident that a minority, and a small one at that, is exactly what they are.

greenlex
02-12-2014, 05:11 PM
Has Lewis not turned it round? If he ever had to.

Every Hibs fan I know rates Lewis and a hell of a lot of people on here do as well. There's a vocal minority who don't but I'm pretty confident that a minority, and a small one at that, is exactly what they are.

Yup but the thread says completely turn it round with the support and that will not happen.

J-C
02-12-2014, 05:14 PM
Although he is playing better, his performances last year were so bad I can never forgive him, he should've had the decency to go at the end of the season when we seemingly had a bid for him, he's not a captain and never will be.

PeeJay
02-12-2014, 05:25 PM
Wouldn't forgive any of them ... playing well against some part timers doesn't fool me ....

jacomo
02-12-2014, 05:34 PM
he was one of the main reasons we got relegated, imho. he ran about like a headless chicken at times, continually got booked when making tackles that were never "on". he then continually moaned and groaned to referees and did not act like a captain.

Reasons we got relegated:

1. Butcher
2. Malpas
3. Petrie

All others come a long way behind these three.

jacomo
02-12-2014, 05:36 PM
Can't vote cos on a phone, but I think LC could turn it around. Why not? He should be approaching the peak if his career and we now have a coaching / management set up that's conducive to getting good performances out of the players.

Stuarty27
02-12-2014, 05:58 PM
People are talking about how great he has been in the last couple of games but I've missed 1game away to Alloa this season and I am convinced that we are better team without him in our team.

At Dumbarton he was poor first half but had a better 2nd half. At Alloa on Saturday he was decent and scored a nice free kick. I think he played well against Dundee Utd and at Ross County. However the other games and majority of last season he was honking.

How many times has he been a substitute this season and how many times has he been subbed off after starting? A captain should never ever be taking off if not injured and it's happened to him several times.

He is too slow and spends the majority of the time arguing with refs and opponents than doing anything productive.

If said it before I'd much rather see our younger boys get a chance over people like Herffernan Craig etc who let us done massively karst year.

Dashing Bob S
02-12-2014, 06:52 PM
"You have to know the past to understand the present" :wink:

"In this great future you can't forget the past...."

Northernhibee
02-12-2014, 07:35 PM
I feel the stick he's been getting is totally unfair considering how awful Butcher was - I 100% put the blame on our relegation on Butcher and nobody else.

He's a good player and if he's getting stick every game there's no wonder it can sometimes affect him.

You can see what his goal at the weekend meant to him.

OsloHibs
02-12-2014, 08:50 PM
I'll always support anyone who wears a Hibs top. End of.

eastterrace
02-12-2014, 08:55 PM
I'll always support anyone who wears a Hibs top. End of.

what even zibby.

SunshineOnLeith
02-12-2014, 09:45 PM
Under Stubbs he's been good apart from when asked to play holding midfield, a position he had to fill in out of necessity in a couple of games due to injuries. As long as Robertson (or someone else, I like Robertson but don't think doing the dirty work is the best use for him) is playing in the defensive/covering role, Craig's got an important role.

As for captaincy, meh, often think the fans care more about who the captain is than any of the players do. David Gray and Lewis Stevenson don't need an armband to put in committed, quality performances, and Paul Hanlon doesn't need an armband to organise the back 4. James McPake was a proper 'captain' figure around the club but nobody really stands out like that at the moment. Not stating that as a good or bad thing, it's just how it is.

1van Sprou7e
02-12-2014, 10:18 PM
The fact that some people are actually voting for the last option shows what is wrong with some of the fans of this club

MWHIBBIES
02-12-2014, 10:46 PM
I have better things to worry about than holding some petty grudge against the club captain, he gets my full support every time he pulls on the shirt and always will.

Swedish hibee
02-12-2014, 10:51 PM
A player on the field in a Hibs top will get my support. Is this not exactly what being a 'supporter' is? :confused:

HoboHarry
02-12-2014, 10:56 PM
It's a daft question and I would think that it's a perfect example of why any player with a modicum of intelligence would avoid this type of forum like the plague.

worcesterhibby
03-12-2014, 09:09 AM
It's a daft question and I would think that it's a perfect example of why any player with a modicum of intelligence would avoid this type of forum like the plague.

I agree that players with any sense would avoid forums. By their very nature they are bound to be places where fans let off steam about performances and concerns. There is nothing wrong with that, but very few people like criticism, so it's best players just ignore forums and get on with playing.

I'm not sure why you think my question was daft though. I feel I approached the issue in a generally positive way and it has generated a generally positive outcome. We have a club captain who was almost universally derided by the fans at the end of last season, Given a choice I think most fans would have been happy to see Liam leave the club in the summer. That didn't happen and I personally hoped that his recent performances along with a better set of results would mean that the majority of the support would now be backing him. I was genuinely interested to see if this was the case and my poll appears to have proved that the majority of fans have changed their mind about him and feel he is an important and influential member of the team, or at very least is well on his way to "winning back" the support of Hibs fans.

With a few more strong performances a few more goals and if he successfully leads us through the pay-offs, then hopefully some of the guys who "will never forgive" will also change their mind.

Why any of that is daft I fail to understand. :na na:

edinburghhibee
03-12-2014, 09:55 AM
What folk need to realise is that players lose form if conditions aren't right eg butcher being a cock. It takes time for form to return and needs a spark to get your confidence back. Craig has been playing well the past few weeks and I'm 110% behind him. Like I am all players at this club. We as fans have a winge and a moan on here that's fine but it needs to stay here at the games put it on the back burner and get behind the boys!!!

I'm certain hearts will lose matches this season and if we can claw it back to 6 points and get a bit of pressure on them we'll come out on top.

MOAN THE HIBEES!!!

Smartie
03-12-2014, 10:19 AM
What folk need to realise is that players lose form if conditions aren't right eg butcher being a cock. It takes time for form to return and needs a spark to get your confidence back. Craig has been playing well the past few weeks and I'm 110% behind him. Like I am all players at this club. We as fans have a winge and a moan on here that's fine but it needs to stay here at the games put it on the back burner and get behind the boys!!!

I'm certain hearts will lose matches this season and if we can claw it back to 6 points and get a bit of pressure on them we'll come out on top.

MOAN THE HIBEES!!!

I think this had a huge part to play last season (esp the 2nd half). When did you last see Craig do the "chest...hoof" that he was criticised for last season? Not since last season. For me, he was following orders.

This season he's getting a bit of criticism for his sideways balls but if we were to be critical of Hibs this year it would be that we weren't direct enough and tend to go sideways - again, I think it's the manager that's requesting this of the players. I think he's a team player, and will do what his manager says regardless of whether he belives in it or not and that is to his credit. It probably contributed to him being made captain in the first place and will have contributed to him being kept on in this capacity.

He was always a player that you recognised when he played for St Johnstone and they've had a lot of unremarkable names over the years. He had a decent first few months with us and has been excellent in patches this season (but like the team frutratingly poor at other times). I respect him for sticking around, he seems to be knuckling down and trying to win us over and has been playing well of late. He still has a bit to prove but it will only be easier for him with a bit of support.


And as for the poll I think it is a perfectly valid one. He seems to divide the support so I think it is reasonable to ask what we all generally think of him right now. I'm fully behind him but can accept why some people might find last season etc hard to forgive and it's interesting to see the poll results. Hopefully he keeps the good form going and it would be a question that wouldn't even need asking in future.

erskine-hibby
03-12-2014, 11:02 AM
Always thought he was a player. When we signed him on a precontract I was more than happy. I looked on with disbelief at the form, or lack of it, he showed last season. I still don't think he is playing the way he can, though his confidence has been clearly dented at his lack of form last term. He is now, I believe, beginning to get that confidence back, which is great for us, a few more games and perhaps a couple of more goals will see the player I thought he could be? As for those who think he is not captain material, you may have been correct, but I think he is growing into the role, and stripping him of it now would set him back to where he was last season.

JimBHibees
03-12-2014, 11:22 AM
People are talking about how great he has been in the last couple of games but I've missed 1game away to Alloa this season and I am convinced that we are better team without him in our team.

At Dumbarton he was poor first half but had a better 2nd half. At Alloa on Saturday he was decent and scored a nice free kick. I think he played well against Dundee Utd and at Ross County. However the other games and majority of last season he was honking.

How many times has he been a substitute this season and how many times has he been subbed off after starting? A captain should never ever be taking off if not injured and it's happened to him several times.

He is too slow and spends the majority of the time arguing with refs and opponents than doing anything productive.

If said it before I'd much rather see our younger boys get a chance over people like Herffernan Craig etc who let us done massively karst year.

Agree totally dont think he can play centre mid and be so lacking in athleticism. He can still do a job however probably as now when McGeough isnt fit. Not sure how that fits with his captain role right enough.

Golden Bear
03-12-2014, 11:35 AM
Always thought he was a player. When we signed him on a precontract I was more than happy. I looked on with disbelief at the form, or lack of it, he showed last season. I still don't think he is playing the way he can, though his confidence has been clearly dented at his lack of form last term. He is now, I believe, beginning to get that confidence back, which is great for us, a few more games and perhaps a couple of more goals will see the player I thought he could be? As for those who think he is not captain material, you may have been correct, but I think he is growing into the role, and stripping him of it now would set him back to where he was last season.

:agree:

Also interesting to see that Paul Hartley immediately installed Kevin Thomson as his Club Captain when he signed him for Dundee. I'm sure there will b a few on here who will still insist that Dundee have made a bad choice.

:wink:

Keith_M
03-12-2014, 01:01 PM
There's an article on Craig in today's Evening News.


Hibs head coach believes Liam Craig is back to his best. (http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hibs/hibs-head-coach-believes-liam-craig-is-back-to-his-best-1-3623297)

Libby Hibby
03-12-2014, 01:07 PM
There's an article on Craig in today's Evening News.


Hibs head coach believes Liam Craig is back to his best. (http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hibs/hibs-head-coach-believes-liam-craig-is-back-to-his-best-1-3623297)

Maybe the OP works for the Evening News and using this forum to get their material haha...I share many of the views here, I blamed him for a lot last year along with Butcher but there are certainly green shoots of improvement with him under Stubbs, long may it continue

worcesterhibby
04-12-2014, 09:29 AM
Maybe the OP works for the Evening News and using this forum to get their material haha...I share many of the views here, I blamed him for a lot last year along with Butcher but there are certainly green shoots of improvement with him under Stubbs, long may it continue

Not many Evening news jour no's work in Worcester !

More like they were struggling for a story..saw my poll and thought…"ohh yea, that'll do." where's my commission !!

Thecat23
04-12-2014, 09:35 AM
Was nothing special at St.Johnstone was nothing special here and actually got worse! LC at his best is just an average footballer. Look at Scott Allen the difference in class is night and day.

If LC stays on I'll give him my support but personally think we can do better myself and should look to find someone else in the summer and move him on.

Phil MaGlass
04-12-2014, 10:19 AM
If Stubbs really believes he is "back to his best", then all I can say is, wow, if this is REALLY his best, then we need to let him go. He is better than last season, but his best?

worcesterhibby
04-12-2014, 10:51 AM
If Stubbs really believes he is "back to his best", then all I can say is, wow, if this is REALLY his best, then we need to let him go. He is better than last season, but his best?

Ignore the headline, if you read the article it says that he felt he is "getting" back to his best. The only direct quotes are at the end of the article where he says

“I’d spoken to Liam about him having an eye for goal and he’d been very conscious of the fact he had not scored this season. It maybe took a bit longer than he anticipated, but I am hoping it’s going to be like the buses, you wait long enough for one then two, three and four come along together. If that’s the case, great. I’ve been pleased with Liam’s performance but if he can start adding some more goals that would be even better."

The inference is definitely there that he feels he is improving, but still has a way to go to get to his best.

worcesterhibby
04-12-2014, 11:51 AM
A friend just read this thread and Texted me this..

Hibs Captain - last year he was like Wendy Craig..this year he's like Liam Craig…next year he'll be like Daniel Craig

:greengrin:greengrin

WeeRussell
04-12-2014, 12:42 PM
Was nothing special at St.Johnstone was nothing special here and actually got worse! LC at his best is just an average footballer. Look at Scott Allen the difference in class is night and day.

If LC stays on I'll give him my support but personally think we can do better myself and should look to find someone else in the summer and move him on.

He was one of St Johnstone's best players, if not their best for at least a couple of seasons - always dangerous when we played them. I would imagine the vast majority of time you seen him play for the Saints was against us, so strange that you didn't think he was a player.

I agree about the difference between him and Allen - but you could say that for the rest of the division; we can't sign 11 Scott Allens and done very well to sign one!

Liam Craig is better than this division. We haven't seen him at his consistent best for a while, but he was made a scapegoat for last year by too many.





he should've had the decency to go at the end of the season

:rolleyes: I am sure you would have applauded and respected him for doing the decent thing had he left us at the first opportunity after relegation.

Thecat23
04-12-2014, 12:48 PM
He was one of St Johnstone's best players, if not their best for at least a couple of seasons - always dangerous when we played them. I would imagine the vast majority of time you seen him play for the Saints was against us, so strange that you didn't think he was a player.

I agree about the difference between him and Allen - but you could say that for the rest of the division; we can't sign 11 Scott Allens and done very well to sign one!

Liam Craig is better than this division. We haven't seen him at his consistent best for a while, but he was made a scapegoat for last year by too many.






:rolleyes: I am sure you would have applauded and respected him for doing the decent thing had he left us at the first opportunity after relegation.

No disrespect to St Johnstone but when they played us our midfield was always getting over run by everyone who played us!
He didn't really stand out for me even then! It's not hard to play against us back then and look ok.

As I said, I think he's bang average and won't be to disappointed if he left. Opinions eh?



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WeeRussell
04-12-2014, 12:56 PM
No disrespect to St Johnstone but when they played us our midfield was always getting over run by everyone who played us!
He didn't really stand out for me even then! It's not hard to play against us back then and look ok.

As I said, I think he's bang average and won't be to disappointed if he left. Opinions eh?



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:aok: Fair enough. Don't get me wrong, I don't think he's Pele. Would also admit to being slightly blinkered due to getting so frustrated by the amount of criticism he gets and the proportion of blame he was handed (by many) for last season's catastrophe. I wouldn't be too gutted if he left either; I think we are a team heading in the right direction - but I think Liam can still have a big part to play.

:flag:

Thecat23
04-12-2014, 01:15 PM
:aok: Fair enough. Don't get me wrong, I don't think he's Pele. Would also admit to being slightly blinkered due to getting so frustrated by the amount of criticism he gets and the proportion of blame he was handed (by many) for last season's catastrophe. I wouldn't be too gutted if he left either; I think we are a team heading in the right direction - but I think Liam can still have a big part to play.

:flag:

Like yourself I don't like hearing the personal abuse from the stands. He really was getting it tight. Can't mind what game it was but the sarcastic cheering when he was subbed was out of order.

At his best he will no doubt look fairly good in this league and I hope he plays a part in getting us up in the play offs. But Stubbs may look elsewhere if we did go up! Depends on money I suppose and if Stubbs wants to keep him or not.


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HibbyAndy
04-12-2014, 06:12 PM
I'd actually give the guy credit for 'hanging around' After we were relegated.


He's not half as bad as some of you make out.

BSEJVT
04-12-2014, 07:15 PM
A bit of perspective

Someone I know and trust grew up with Liam down in the borders

Liam was and is a Hibs supporter and grew up dreaming of playing for Hibs

Can you imagine having realised that ambition how it felt to be a mainstay in the team that got relegated and to receive the level of abuse he has and does?

Abusing your own players is simply doing the oppositions job for them.

Sir David Gray
04-12-2014, 10:36 PM
A bit of perspective

Someone I know and trust grew up with Liam down in the borders

Liam was and is a Hibs supporter and grew up dreaming of playing for Hibs

Can you imagine having realised that ambition how it felt to be a mainstay in the team that got relegated and to receive the level of abuse he has and does?

Abusing your own players is simply doing the oppositions job for them.

I was told he was a Celtc fan. :confused:

JimBHibees
04-12-2014, 10:39 PM
Yam apparently but who cares. Still a good player to have around, has been playing well recently.

davhibby
04-12-2014, 10:52 PM
I think people forget that in the first half of last season he was doing well, and finished last season as our top scorer. If he can keep improving and push on from the last month or so then he'd be a valuable player to have

worcesterhibby
04-12-2014, 10:55 PM
I think people forget that in the first half of last season he was doing well, and finished last season as our top scorer. If he can keep improving and push on from the last month or so then he'd be a valuable player to have

To be fair if you look at the poll results it's only about 10 % of folk who don't feel he's doing pretty well

ekhibee
05-12-2014, 12:58 AM
A bit of perspective

Someone I know and trust grew up with Liam down in the borders

Liam was and is a Hibs supporter and grew up dreaming of playing for Hibs

Can you imagine having realised that ambition how it felt to be a mainstay in the team that got relegated and to receive the level of abuse he has and does?

Abusing your own players is simply doing the oppositions job for them.
I'd actually heard he was a Hearts fan, and I remember quite clearly his behaviour in the notorious 'Freeland' game against Falkirk when he was arguing/fighting over something with the Hibs fans in the west stand during that game. He was a sub for Falkirk and wasn't actually playing in the game at the time. That said his game's picked up in the last couple of fixtures. Still prefer McGeouch though.

BSEJVT
05-12-2014, 08:49 AM
I'd actually heard he was a Hearts fan, and I remember quite clearly his behaviour in the notorious 'Freeland' game against Falkirk when he was arguing/fighting over something with the Hibs fans in the west stand during that game. He was a sub for Falkirk and wasn't actually playing in the game at the time. That said his game's picked up in the last couple of fixtures. Still prefer McGeouch though.

He is and was 100% a Hibs supporter.

I remember that game well, my claim to fame is that I sat behind the home dug out and told Mark Venus that the boy had already been booked and he brought it to the 4th official's attention and then that twat Freeland had to send him off:greengrin

Craig was going tonto then and I think may have been sent off, having not even been on!

I was as surprised as anyone when I was told that he was a Hibby following that, but the person telling me would without question know and is a Hibby themselves.

J-C
05-12-2014, 10:08 AM
He was one of St Johnstone's best players, if not their best for at least a couple of seasons - always dangerous when we played them. I would imagine the vast majority of time you seen him play for the Saints was against us, so strange that you didn't think he was a player.

I agree about the difference between him and Allen - but you could say that for the rest of the division; we can't sign 11 Scott Allens and done very well to sign one!

Liam Craig is better than this division. We haven't seen him at his consistent best for a while, but he was made a scapegoat for last year by too many.






:rolleyes: I am sure you would have applauded and respected him for doing the decent thing had he left us at the first opportunity after relegation.

If you had quoted my full post it says we seemingly had an offer for him and after his performances in getting us relegated he should've done the right thing and leave, yes he's played better recently and I'm delighted he is but I still feel if we are to move forward as a team we need better than Craig.

silverhibee
05-12-2014, 03:17 PM
He is and was 100% a Hibs supporter.

I remember that game well, my claim to fame is that I sat behind the home dug out and told Mark Venus that the boy had already been booked and he brought it to the 4th official's attention and then that twat Freeland had to send him off:greengrin

Craig was going tonto then and I think may have been sent off, having not even been on!

I was as surprised as anyone when I was told that he was a Hibby following that, but the person telling me would without question know and is a Hibby themselves.

And he hasn't mentioned this to the Hibs fans yet, you would think when he first signed for us he would have mentioned something about playing for the team he has supported all his life, or is he ashamed of us. :greengrin

JimBHibees
05-12-2014, 03:24 PM
And he hasn't mentioned this to the Hibs fans yet, you would think when he first signed for us he would have mentioned something about playing for the team he has supported all his life, or is he ashamed of us. :greengrin

Indeed. :agree:

jacomo
05-12-2014, 03:53 PM
He is and was 100% a Hibs supporter.

I remember that game well, my claim to fame is that I sat behind the home dug out and told Mark Venus that the boy had already been booked and he brought it to the 4th official's attention and then that twat Freeland had to send him off:greengrin

Craig was going tonto then and I think may have been sent off, having not even been on!

I was as surprised as anyone when I was told that he was a Hibby following that, but the person telling me would without question know and is a Hibby themselves.

Yay! He's one of our own. Love the guy! :wink:

HibbyAndy
05-12-2014, 03:55 PM
100% Hibs supporter.

JimBHibees
05-12-2014, 03:57 PM
100% Hibs supporter.

Are you sure? Not that I know one way or the other however pretty sure I had heard he supported someone else not to be honest that it means anything either way.

yekimevol
05-12-2014, 04:03 PM
Dont think he should be the club captain but get a few more derby goals and play well; then I dont care who you are redemption will always be there.

silverhibee
05-12-2014, 04:15 PM
100% Hibs supporter.

Does this mean he is a yam Andy, :greengrin bit like your tips, :thumbsup:

HibbyAndy
05-12-2014, 04:38 PM
Are you sure? Not that I know one way or the other however pretty sure I had heard he supported someone else not to be honest that it means anything either way.

:agree:



Does this mean he is a yam Andy, :greengrin bit like your tips, :thumbsup:



Arsenal, Man u, Man city, Liverpool, Spurs, Chelsea Monster 6 fold nearly 30/1 :thumbsup::thumbsup:


Stick oan :cb

silverhibee
05-12-2014, 04:39 PM
Are you sure? Not that I know one way or the other however pretty sure I had heard he supported someone else not to be honest that it means anything either way.

I'm with you Jim, he is the captain of Hibs, anyone who is a Hibs supporter who goes on to play for the club he has supported and gets the privilege of being the captain for Hibs would have spoke of the joy of captaining the club he has supported all his days to the fans and press.

Couldn't care who he supports but i don't think it's Hibs. :agree:

worcesterhibby
06-12-2014, 07:00 AM
personally I think the vast majority of professional footballers lose their sense of 'fan hood' once they have been a pro for a few years. At the end of the day it's a job and clubs are employers. There is a very different relationship between most players and clubs than there is between fans and clubs. Obviously there are some very well documented exceptions, such as Pat Stanton, but on the whole I think the team that most clubs 'supported' as a boy come to mean very little to them in the course of a professional career.

Danderhall Hibs
06-12-2014, 07:42 AM
And he hasn't mentioned this to the Hibs fans yet, you would think when he first signed for us he would have mentioned something about playing for the team he has supported all his life, or is he ashamed of us. :greengrin

That's what Celtic make you do, Hibs contractual thing is stadium and training facilities.

Keith_M
06-12-2014, 09:11 AM
There's an article on Craig in today's Evening News.


Hibs head coach believes Liam Craig is back to his best. (http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hibs/hibs-head-coach-believes-liam-craig-is-back-to-his-best-1-3623297)


Maybe the OP works for the Evening News and using this forum to get their material haha...I share many of the views here, I blamed him for a lot last year along with Butcher but there are certainly green shoots of improvement with him under Stubbs, long may it continue


Well, considering they now have the following article in Today's Scotsman, it seems they actually just lift their 'stories' straight from here.

Liam Craig knows he still has to win fans over (http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/spfl-lower-divisions/liam-craig-knows-he-still-has-to-win-fans-over-1-3626950)


Scotsman/Evening News in blatant example of stealing story from hibs.net shocker!!

matty_f
06-12-2014, 01:21 PM
I think Liam Craig has done well to turn around his form, in terms of turning it around with the fans, he is getting there IMHO.

I'll be honest and say that I was disappointed in how Craig appeared to duck away from the responsibility of being captain in a struggling team last season. There were clearly issues at the club between the players and the management team and part of the captain's role is to act as a mitagator in situations like that. I don't think that happened, and on the pitch Craig resorted to taking the easy and safe options too often.

This is most likely down to confidence, and we can attribute that loss of confidence to a couple of things pointed out in the thread already.

A confident Liam Craig is going to fit into the team, he looks like the confidence is coming back and he contributing more on the pitch just now than he did at almost any other time last season.

He's the Hibs captain, I hope he succeeds, he has my support and he'll get my full backing as long as he's wearing a Hibs jersey.

Danderhall Hibs
06-12-2014, 01:34 PM
There were rumours on here a few months back that when things started to go wrong for the management dream team they asked for an open and honest chat with the team. Craig took responsibility as captain (rightly) to speak up first and was ridiculed and told to shut the **** up by Malpas.

Then they started playing him out of position, subbing him, dropping him then starting from the beginning and soon it all again.

I wonder why he lost confidence?

J-C
07-12-2014, 05:15 PM
There were rumours on here a few months back that when things started to go wrong for the management dream team they asked for an open and honest chat with the team. Craig took responsibility as captain (rightly) to speak up first and was ridiculed and told to shut the **** up by Malpas.

Then they started playing him out of position, subbing him, dropping him then starting from the beginning and soon it all again.

I wonder why he lost confidence?

So in essence our dream team management shattered the confidence of an entire team, captain et al could only happen at Hibs.

Smartie
07-12-2014, 05:29 PM
I had heard from a mate of Craig's that he found it impossible at Hibs under Butcher.

Butcher wanted them to launch it long (remember the chest-hoof from throw-ins) but whenever the players did it they'd get abuse from the fans who wanted it passed. Whenever they passed it they'd get it in the neck from the management team (see Kevin Thomson).

Craig was probably appointed captain because he was prepared to follow Butcher's orders. And he was probably kept on as captain by Stubbs when he showed enthusiasm for the type of footbal Stubbs wanted to play knowing that it would probably be more in keeping with what the fans wanted

gegs70
08-12-2014, 09:21 AM
No I don't like any abuse of players wearing a hibs top. I'm not convinced about Craig to be honest as a central midfielder......

worcesterhibby
08-12-2014, 09:34 AM
I presume McGeouch is available for the next match. be interesting to see if he comes straight back in at the expense of Craig.

jacomo
08-12-2014, 03:09 PM
Well, considering they now have the following article in Today's Scotsman, it seems they actually just lift their 'stories' straight from here.

Liam Craig knows he still has to win fans over (http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/spfl-lower-divisions/liam-craig-knows-he-still-has-to-win-fans-over-1-3626950)

Scotsman/Evening News in blatant example of stealing story from hibs.net shocker!!

He might just be saying what he thinks we want to hear, but he does sound like a Hibs fan in this article.

JimBHibees
08-12-2014, 04:50 PM
I'm with you Jim, he is the captain of Hibs, anyone who is a Hibs supporter who goes on to play for the club he has supported and gets the privilege of being the captain for Hibs would have spoke of the joy of captaining the club he has supported all his days to the fans and press.

Couldn't care who he supports but i don't think it's Hibs. :agree:

I agree any Hibs fan would have brought that up when being made captain. Not to be honest that it makes any difference.

Sir David Gray
08-12-2014, 06:13 PM
I presume McGeouch is available for the next match. be interesting to see if he comes straight back in at the expense of Craig.

He won't be available until the end of this month at the earliest.

silverhibee
09-12-2014, 12:14 AM
Will Craig be fit for us this weekend.