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Bostonhibby
30-11-2014, 11:00 AM
We've had a bit of time to think about it and digest the responses we have had on .net so after reading the articles in the Scotsman and Herald I wondered what the results on here might look like.

jacomo
30-11-2014, 11:11 AM
I've been critical of their decision to refuse a meeting with the Board, but it's the mutterings about asset stripping that really make me dubious about them.

Either be up front about these allegations or be quiet.

I have doubts about the DD model they propose, too, but was willing to be convinced on that. I am less and less sure now.

Not a definite 'no' from me, but it's not been a good start from them at all.

offshorehibby
30-11-2014, 11:18 AM
I'm a may not support at the moment. Was going to go along on Monday & Wednesday but would surprised if that convinced me.

Still keen to see if Hibs and LD come up with any plan.

blackpoolhibs
30-11-2014, 11:20 AM
Not a definite no from me, but so far its just been a complete farce from start to finish.

Unless they are keeping something huge for the Q&A next week where they will unveil a couple of billionaires wanting to invest, then i personally think they are pissing against the wind.

Peevemor
30-11-2014, 11:23 AM
Definite no from me as things stand. They'll have to go some to change my mind.

Pretty Boy
30-11-2014, 11:23 AM
I think a lot of their future activity will depend on what goes on at the AGM, whenever that takes place.

emerald green
30-11-2014, 11:25 AM
Not enough answers, and clarity, on the pros and cons of their proposal yet for me.

I'm trying hard to keep on open mind, but I've yet to be convinced.

Hibbyradge
30-11-2014, 11:26 AM
A definite no from me.

Their refusal to talk to the board is about as unprofessional a decision as I've ever heard. And one of the stupidest.

If I was serious about buying Hibs, I'd talk to anyone and everyone involved, even if I had a personal dislike of Rod Petrie.

Caversham Green
30-11-2014, 11:29 AM
I've moved from second top at the outset to second bottom now. I don't see any reason why the fan ownership model wouldn't 'work' in the sense that the club would survive, but BuyHibs have done nothing to convince me that it would improve our lot in the future. It certainly wouldn't in the short-term and I think it's worth considering whether we would have heard the same concerns about future ownership if the club had bumped along in the SPL top six over the last few years rather than suffer from the Calderwood/Butcher fiasco. (Pat Fenlon's omission is intentional.)

dp00
30-11-2014, 11:57 AM
No from me, I think Hibs are starting to get things right with Stubbs, and Leeann dempster so would be good to see where it goes

Kaiser1962
30-11-2014, 12:17 PM
They are certainly getting their message into the papers. Just a pity they are claiming a mandate they don't have, and the message does not bear scrutiny. Other than that they look what the are, a marketing and sales team. Very disappointing.

schinkenotto
30-11-2014, 12:35 PM
I was previously not totally against this,as anything which could be for the good of Hibs should be considered,but the combination of vagueness,lack of professionalism(refusal to meet the Board),hints of impropriety against STF,the latest "demands" in Scotland on Sunday and the suggestions that all that STF wants is his "price" have totally undermined any credibility,this group ever had.

Noone can deny the last few disastrous years and the negative effect on the fans.Change is clearly essential,but it must be based on sound foundations.I am also aware that the past attitude of RP to various fan groups who could have helped has alienated many true Hibees.However at the risk of being accused of being naïve,I am at last seeing progress on and off the park and hope to see further progress being revealed at forthcoming AGM.It is unfortunate that this progress could be put at risk by ill thought out proposals,which in the case of some(not all) of those involved seem to be based on personal agendas and settling scores.

green&left
30-11-2014, 12:51 PM
Due to not being a sheep/*****bag my pledge is in :whistle::aok:

schinkenotto
30-11-2014, 12:54 PM
Due to not being a sheep/*****bag my pledge is in :whistle::aok:

Thanks a bunch-nothing like civilised debate!

oldbutdim
30-11-2014, 12:56 PM
Due to not being a sheep/*****bag my pledge is in :whistle::aok:

Well that's persuaded me.

Caversham Green
30-11-2014, 01:02 PM
Due to not being a sheep/*****bag my pledge is in :whistle::aok:

A sheep in another flock is still a sheep.

Phil D. Rolls
30-11-2014, 01:03 PM
Due to not being a sheep/*****bag my pledge is in :whistle::aok:

They should appoint you as their media spokesman, you'd definitely be an improvement.

21.05.2016
30-11-2014, 01:06 PM
Far too many questions left unanswered (hopefully cleared up at Q&A meeting) and for me atm we haven't had enough information about just what exactly the plan is, both short term and for the long term. I'm afraid I can't commit myself to anything that I don't have 100% confidence in so until there is far more detail, far more clarity on what will happen and most importantly more assurance that this is the best way forward for the club I can't support.

Eyrie
30-11-2014, 01:23 PM
Before BuyHibs started I'd have been in favour of fan ownership, subject to the details, and would almost certainly have pledged.

When they announced their proposal I was surprised by how vague it was, as if they hadn't thought it through properly.

Since then they've been unable to answer any questions concerning their proposals and refused to meet the board.

There is very little prospect of them getting my money now, although it's a moot point because I don't see them succeeding anyway.

sleeping giant
30-11-2014, 01:25 PM
It's a no from me.
From what I've seen , they do not seem very professional .

I do not see what they bring or what they can do to ensure the long term future.

No thanks.

Andy74
30-11-2014, 01:31 PM
No. Can't be taken seriously in anything they have said and done so dar.

Capt Mainwaring
30-11-2014, 01:58 PM
No compelling reason for change. No obvious Business Plan. Little communication with fans to date. Lack of facts and substance behind "allegations". Refusal to meet with current Board.

= shambles!

I'm also uncomfortable that certain parties have got far too personal agenda at play here.

It's a No from me because I don't know what I'm being asked to support or pledge for. Won't change until all of the above is addressed.

Hibbyradge
30-11-2014, 02:22 PM
Due to not being a sheep/*****bag my pledge is in :whistle::aok:

Sheep (n)

A person(s) who follows others without thought.

PatHead
30-11-2014, 03:18 PM
Broadly in support of fans owning 26% of the club but am not convinced by BuyHibs so far.

BroxburnHibee
30-11-2014, 03:21 PM
Due to not being a sheep/*****bag my pledge is in :whistle::aok:

Classy.

Don't know what I've been worried about

Ozyhibby
30-11-2014, 03:27 PM
I believe that fan ownership can work and would make a better fist of it than our current owners but BuyHibs could not have ran a worse campaign.
My pledge is still in but they are going to have to turn things around big time for it to remain so.
They need someone new in charge of communication for a start.

Peevemor
30-11-2014, 04:24 PM
I believe that fan ownership can work and would make a better fist of it than our current owners but BuyHibs could not have ran a worse campaign.
My pledge is still in but they are going to have to turn things around big time for it to remain so.
They need someone new in charge of communication for a start.

What would fan owners do better than the current set up?

blackpoolhibs
30-11-2014, 04:30 PM
What would fan owners do better than the current set up?

It would rid us of Petrie and STF, under who's ownership has us playing our football in the championship, and lowered expectations so much folk are getting all excited about our progress to 4th place in that league by beating part time clubs now and again.

Peevemor
30-11-2014, 04:43 PM
So what can be improved on the current set up?

Bostonhibby
30-11-2014, 04:55 PM
It would rid us of Petrie and STF, under who's ownership has us playing our football in the championship, and lowered expectations so much folk are getting all excited about our progress to 4th place in that league by beating part time clubs now and again.

Am with you there BH, my aim here was solely to find out how reality on one site stacked up against the hype in the sunday papers - Petrie out is long overdue but defaulting into what Buyhibs, or whoever else comes along isn't necessarily the answer as, in my view if RP wasn't there it might be possible to say that LD and her people have checked the recent decline - we have hit the bottom and maybe on the way up?

Anyway am sucked into going beyond what the poll was about - need to find a way next time to handicap each of the categories to take account of RP not being there.:greengrin

blackpoolhibs
30-11-2014, 05:08 PM
So what can be improved on the current set up?

Open your eyes.

Peevemor
30-11-2014, 05:13 PM
Open your eyes.

Eh? Tell me what I'm missing then?

bingo70
30-11-2014, 05:23 PM
Eh? Tell me what I'm missing then?

Sorry, I know you were talking to BH but Im going to Chuck my tuppence worth in.

Even forgetting about the important part, the pitch, we're not a well run club imo.

The ticket prices, the quality and quantity of the stuff on the shop, the communication with the fans, the catering (doesn't actually bother me, I eat before I go but the prices are still outrageous), the lack of effort to contact lapsed season ticket holders, we're relying on volunteers fir stadium maintenance. I'm sure there's others that I can't think of just now.

The above are things that could be fixed without a Saudi billionaire chucking millions at the club.

Then to go back to the important bit, we're about a million points off the top spot in the championship.

I'm struggling to see aspects of the club that couldn't be improved on with new owners.

That doesn't mean I'm convinced by buyhibs though.

blackpoolhibs
30-11-2014, 05:25 PM
Eh? Tell me what I'm missing then?

Just have a look at the state the club is in, look at the apathy with a large amount of people who support Hibs and look at where we are in THE BLOODY CHAMPIONSHIP, all under the ownership of STF and Petrie, FOR THE 2ND TIME.

We are a club on the brink of a bigger disaster than being relegated, and thats staying in this division. Make no mistake about this, we are a club in crisis again under the ownership of STF and Petrie.

I don't agree with folk when they say things are better, nothing is better when we are in the Championship. We might win a few more games, but we bloody should do against part timers.

Once Stubbs has us challenging in the top division, and we are no longer relegation candidates i will concede then that STF, Petrie and LD have us on the right road.

What i won't wet my pants over is a team in the Championship, with absolutely no chance of winning it.

Ozyhibby
30-11-2014, 05:33 PM
So what can be improved on the current set up?

We have not won at home in nearly 3 months. There must be something we can improve? Still, if you say there's not then maybe we should just stick with Petrie?

grunt
30-11-2014, 05:36 PM
We have not won at home in nearly 3 months.
Plainly the fault of STF. We need a new owner!

bingo70
30-11-2014, 05:36 PM
Just have a look at the state the club is in, look at the apathy with a large amount of people who support Hibs and look at where we are in THE BLOODY CHAMPIONSHIP, all under the ownership of STF and Petrie, FOR THE 2ND TIME.

We are a club on the brink of a bigger disaster than being relegated, and thats staying in this division. Make no mistake about this, we are a club in crisis again under the ownership of STF and Petrie.

I don't agree with folk when they say things are better, nothing is better when we are in the Championship. We might win a few more games, but we bloody should do against part timers.

Once Stubbs has us challenging in the top division, and we are no longer relegation candidates i will concede then that STF, Petrie and LD have us on the right road.

What i won't wet my pants over is a team in the Championship, with absolutely no chance of winning it.

I agree.

Unlike most I'm not convinced about dempster either. Think she took far too long to punt butcher, made the wrong decision regarding ticket prices and I didn't agree with her rant on here, once it was done though she should have continued dialogue, to say what she did then not respond to any of the subsequent points raised was poor imo.

Peevemor
30-11-2014, 05:37 PM
Sorry, I know you were talking to BH but Im going to Chuck my tuppence worth in.

Even forgetting about the important part, the pitch, we're not a well run club imo.

The ticket prices, the quality and quantity of the stuff on the shop, the communication with the fans, the catering (doesn't actually bother me, I eat before I go but the prices are still outrageous), the lack of effort to contact lapsed season ticket holders, we're relying on volunteers fir stadium maintenance. I'm sure there's others that I can't think of just now.

The above are things that could be fixed without a Saudi billionaire chucking millions at the club.

Then to go back to the important bit, we're about a million points off the top spot in the championship.

I'm struggling to see aspects of the club that couldn't be improved on with new owners.

That doesn't mean I'm convinced by buyhibs though.

Hibs will make a loss this season despite the ticket prices. What could a new owner do differently?

The quality and quantity of stuff in the shop is down to deals made pre LD.

Has communication with the fans not improved greatly since the summer?

The catering isn't run by the club, though hopefully improvement can be made the next time contracts are up for renewal.

Lapsed ST holders will be enticed back by what happens on the pitch.

As far as I know, the volunteers contacted the club and offered to lend a hand. There was no question of "reliance".

As for the important bit, I think Stubbs has us going in the right direction but it's early days.

bingo70
30-11-2014, 05:51 PM
I think she could have offered greater value for season ticket holders, used it as an opportunity to reduce prices for the following years to increase loyalty abd reduce the likelihood of people not renewing next year, our attendances next year are going to be a real problem of we don't go up imo.

The shop deals May have been pre LD but it wasn't pre farmer, an owner that gave the slightest of ****s would have noticed this a while ago.

Not convinced communications are that much better, there's been more of them but I still don't think many at the club have a dink.

Lapsed season ticket holders are supporters that want the club to do well, we need to try abd entice them back, not just hope they do if things get better, they could have used the money to join a golf club or something.

We all hope Stubbs has us heading in the right direction, a glance at the league table may say otherwise though.

blackpoolhibs
30-11-2014, 06:04 PM
Hibs will make a loss this season despite the ticket prices. What could a new owner do differently?

Put a decent amount of money in up front, so the manager knew what he'd have to spend right away after joining, benefits twofold, he gets to go after players he wants earlier and the supporters see ambition and leadership. That equals more season ticket sales.

The quality and quantity of stuff in the shop is down to deals made pre LD.

Has communication with the fans not improved greatly since the summer?

Ask the overseas fans if they feel this is the case?

The catering isn't run by the club, though hopefully improvement can be made the next time contracts are up for renewal.

Lapsed ST holders will be enticed back by what happens on the pitch.

Not so far.

As far as I know, the volunteers contacted the club and offered to lend a hand. There was no question of "reliance".

As for the important bit, I think Stubbs has us going in the right direction but it's early days.

I thought Hughes had us going in the right direction, i also thought Calderwood would too as i thought the same with Fenlon.

Its a results game in this division, because we cant afford to be in it longer than one season.

ancient hibee
30-11-2014, 06:55 PM
Sorry, I know you were talking to BH but Im going to Chuck my tuppence worth in.

Even forgetting about the important part, the pitch, we're not a well run club imo.

The ticket prices, the quality and quantity of the stuff on the shop, the communication with the fans, the catering (doesn't actually bother me, I eat before I go but the prices are still outrageous), the lack of effort to contact lapsed season ticket holders, we're relying on volunteers fir stadium maintenance. I'm sure there's others that I can't think of just now.

The above are things that could be fixed without a Saudi billionaire chucking millions at the club.

Then to go back to the important bit, we're about a million points off the top spot in the championship.

I'm struggling to see aspects of the club that couldn't be improved on with new owners.

That doesn't mean I'm convinced by buyhibs though.

So have the potential new owners given the slightest indication of how they would tackle any of this?It's just not enough to say "we're not them"-in fact it's schoolboy stuff.

blackpoolhibs
30-11-2014, 06:58 PM
So have the potential new owners given the slightest indication of how they would tackle any of this?It's just not enough to say "we're not them"-in fact it's schoolboy stuff.

Speaking for myself, i don't think this buyhibs have a chance of getting their hands on the club, and i wouldn't want them to either.

ancient hibee
30-11-2014, 07:02 PM
Speaking for myself, i don't think this buyhibs have a chance of getting their hands on the club, and i wouldn't want them to either.

It's difficult to know what we want isn't it?A Euromillions winner mebbe?I'm very disappointed at how Buyhibs have gone about it-getting on the wrong side of the owner isn't very sensible and thinking because they enlisted Pat Stanton that we would all roll over because of the high regard we have for him is pathetic.

blackpoolhibs
30-11-2014, 07:06 PM
It's difficult to know what we want isn't it?A Euromillions winner mebbe?I'm very disappointed at how Buyhibs have gone about it-getting on the wrong side of the owner isn't very sensible and thinking because they enlisted Pat Stanton that we would all roll over because of the high regard we have for him is pathetic.

We all want the same thing, a Hibs team that challenges in the top division of Scottish football at the top end. I dont believe the current owners can deliver that.

Eyrie
30-11-2014, 07:08 PM
We all want the same thing, a Hibs team that challenges in the top division of Scottish football at the top end. I dont believe the current owners can deliver that.
It's clear that BuyHibs can't deliver that either, so we're stuck with the current regime until a credible, properly structured and fully funded bid appears.

I'm open to change, but is has to be the right change.

bingo70
30-11-2014, 07:09 PM
So have the potential new owners given the slightest indication of how they would tackle any of this?It's just not enough to say "we're not them"-in fact it's schoolboy stuff.

No, I agree, I said in my original post I wasn't convinced about them either.

I just also think the current lot are failing in just about every area. Peevemor suggested that wasn't the case so I butted in and gave my opinion.

blackpoolhibs
30-11-2014, 07:09 PM
It's clear that BuyHibs can't deliver that either, so we're stuck with the current regime until a credible, properly structured and fully funded bid appears.

I'm open to change, but is has to be the right change.

:agree:

Bostonhibby
01-12-2014, 05:52 PM
bump

Lago
01-12-2014, 06:01 PM
We all want the same thing, a Hibs team that challenges in the top division of Scottish football at the top end. I dont believe the current owners can deliver that.
Hibs challenging in the top division the things dreams are made of. The days of the famous 5 are long gone I'm afraid.

superfurryhibby
01-12-2014, 07:12 PM
Hibs challenging in the top division the things dreams are made of. The days of the famous 5 are long gone I'm afraid.

Were we not competing for second top at Christmas time under Yogi? Why can Motherwell do what we can only dream of?

I think we have missed a wonderful opportunity to take advantage of the demise of the Hun and the Diet Hun. Poor leadership is at the root of our decline.

blackpoolhibs
01-12-2014, 07:47 PM
Hibs challenging in the top division the things dreams are made of. The days of the famous 5 are long gone I'm afraid.

Nonsense, we did not spend all that money on infrastructure to play our football in the 2nd tier of Scottish football. We should be challenging for a European place EVERY year with the facilities we now have available to us.

Only an idiot would think we could win the league, but Europe through our league position should be our aim EVERY season.

HUTCHYHIBBY
01-12-2014, 08:24 PM
Nonsense, we did not spend all that money on infrastructure to play our football in the 2nd tier of Scottish football. We should be challenging for a European place EVERY year with the facilities we now have available to us.

Only an idiot would think we could win the league, but Europe through our league position should be our aim EVERY season.

Some folk seem scared to predict a win against Arbroath, its mental.

jacomo
01-12-2014, 08:36 PM
Were we not competing for second top at Christmas time under Yogi? Why can Motherwell do what we can only dream of?

I think we have missed a wonderful opportunity to take advantage of the demise of the Hun and the Diet Hun. Poor leadership is at the root of our decline.

:agree:

A once in a generation opportunity.

Northernhibee
01-12-2014, 09:14 PM
95% likely to be out - think that we're undergoing something of a revival and would like to run with it. Far too many wooly answers from BuyHibs, far too little detail - unless they are able to put forward a really compelling business case and long term plan of action I'm not interested.

blackpoolhibs
02-12-2014, 07:31 AM
95% likely to be out - think that we're undergoing something of a revival and would like to run with it. Far too many wooly answers from BuyHibs, far too little detail - unless they are able to put forward a really compelling business case and long term plan of action I'm not interested.

I disagree, if a viable option came up who were able to buy the club and take us forward i think a majority of the support would want it.

bingo70
02-12-2014, 07:39 AM
I'm guessing they weren't able to answer many of the concerns at last night's meeting going by the Twitter updates.

Anybody on the bounce saying much about last night's meeting?

Brightside
02-12-2014, 08:15 AM
I think she could have offered greater value for season ticket holders, used it as an opportunity to reduce prices for the following years to increase loyalty abd reduce the likelihood of people not renewing next year, our attendances next year are going to be a real problem of we don't go up imo.

The shop deals May have been pre LD but it wasn't pre farmer, an owner that gave the slightest of ****s would have noticed this a while ago.

Not convinced communications are that much better, there's been more of them but I still don't think many at the club have a dink.

Lapsed season ticket holders are supporters that want the club to do well, we need to try abd entice them back, not just hope they do if things get better, they could have used the money to join a golf club or something.

We all hope Stubbs has us heading in the right direction, a glance at the league table may say otherwise though.

Merry Christmas :greengrin

Brightside
02-12-2014, 08:24 AM
I disagree, if a viable option came up who were able to buy the club and take us forward i think a majority of the support would want it.

Viable option needs to be someone with a bundle of cash, and no concern with getting anything in return. We may be waiting a while.

in the meantime i do think the new CEO is doing a good job, and more importantly is ensuring that funds are spent in the right way to turn the club around.

Peevemor
02-12-2014, 08:38 AM
I'm guessing they weren't able to answer many of the concerns at last night's meeting going by the Twitter updates.

Anybody on the bounce saying much about last night's meeting?

Gunnerhibby posted this on the Bounce


it was a good meeting tonight, if somewhat a wee bit long and drawn out, but constructive. I'll make some bullet points rather than put a more detailed story up as I didn't take any notes.

Present from BuyHibs were

Neil Wheelan
Ashley Thorne
Dougie Roxburghe
Brian Penman
Lee McLennan

approximately 35 Hibees Bounce and St Pats Branch members present





First thing was an assurance of pledge monies. NO MONEY will be taken from anyones bank account without first giving their express permission to BuyHibs to do so.




The pledges are more a way of gauging the support to the concept of the BuyHibs campaign, rather than a financial pledge, AT THIS TIME.




Buyhibs have communicated with STF 3 times asking "Is the Club for sale" and if so, "at what price". They have received no answer to either of these questions.




BuyHibs members present made it clear they are not the ones that will run the Club, they are building a mechanism whereby the Club may be bought from STF, mainly driven by Hibs fans.

The preferred model of ownership is a Community Interest Company. With the the Fans investment(pledges) making up 51% of shares held by the CIC, with big investors making up the 49%


The assets, namely stadium and training centre, will be held in Trust through the CIC, which would prevent the sale of such assets.




They made a conscious decision not to speak to Leeanne Dempster, as they would rather speak with the owner of the Club, who would make the decision on whether to sell, or not




There were fans present tonight that conveyed the opinion that it may help if they did speak with LD. BH said they will take this under consideration. They may, or may not, change that decision.




Communication with fans from all areas of the Hibs support is something they are working on, trying to engage with fans who dont go online either.
One strategy they are considering is setting a target of xx shares, which will give any fans willing to pledge a goal to achieve. Again this is also dependent on answers from STF.
They assured us that there were investors willing to back their plan, but, AT THIS TIME, they wish to remain anonymous. One reason given is that STF has not set any price, which may rise if investors are known.



more to follow ...

http://www.hibeesbounce.com/forum/showthread.php?112503-Buy-Hibs-Face-to-Face-Q-amp-A-HSA-Sunnyside/page2&

Same old, same old from what I can see.

le bill
02-12-2014, 08:40 AM
We've had a bit of time to think about it and digest the responses we have had on .net so after reading the articles in the Scotsman and Herald I wondered what the results on here might look like.

I'm out

Not enough information and i'm not convinced about this type of model of fan ownership

I pay Hibs about £500 a year for season tickets for myself and my son (plus matchday costs & football merchandise)

Why Should I give more?

marti1875
02-12-2014, 08:46 AM
Viable option needs to be someone with a bundle of cash, and no concern with getting anything in return. We may be waiting a while.

in the meantime i do think the new CEO is doing a good job, and more importantly is ensuring that funds are spent in the right way to turn the club around.


Totally agree. It seems like the only "players" left are Buyhibs and after reading one of them on here the other day there it left me with absolute NO doubt that they are NOT even close to being viable...never even mind being an option!
The person really made things seem worse with evasive sketchy answers, totally out their depth and still insisting on being totally correct in not meeting with the board at all and still coming out with unfounded claims of asset stripping/separation or whatever you want to call it. Then bluntly suddenly in bold saying LOGGING OUT once the going was getting tough and vanished! :greengrin

I don't see them getting even close to achieving anything so it leaves us with the status quo. Yes, we have the old Petrie still lurking which i think we all agree on that we would love him to go, but i am happy enough to wait a wee bit longer to see how LD and Stubbs can carry-on as we seem...dare i say it...seem...to be slowly making inroads to becoming more stable on the pitch....well, if we could turn home draws into wins it would be a very different table for sure but that's gone now and cannot be changed. We are where we are, happy? goddamn NO, not at all, but i for one do not advocate change just for the sheer sake of it, not at all.

So, no other viable option out there so it looks like we are going to be with the old guard for at least the foreseeable future. I for one will just have to bite the bullet for a while as once buyhibs are gone there is no others it seems...well none with Hibs' real best interests at heart i think so......my tuppence worth, sitting sipping a nice cold beer in scorching hot +36 degrees relaxing watching from afar, :thumbsup:

Andy74
02-12-2014, 11:20 AM
Gunnerhibby posted this on the Bounce



http://www.hibeesbounce.com/forum/showthread.php?112503-Buy-Hibs-Face-to-Face-Q-amp-A-HSA-Sunnyside/page2&

Same old, same old from what I can see.

The price thing was dealt with at the consultation night I was at at least.

Leaann was clear that Sir Tom wasn't interested in naming a price because the club was not actively up for sale.

If someone wanted to buy the club they would need to make clear what it is they wanted and how much they wanted to pay for it. As well as proving that they could safeguard the club and act in its long term interests.

Secret investors worried about the price going up? Give me a break.

21.05.2016
02-12-2014, 11:41 AM
Some folk seem scared to predict a win against Arbroath, its mental.

Not scared to predict a win, we SHOULD win. I have just supported hibs long enough to know that when we go into games over cocky and think its gonna be an absolute walk in the park, many times we have ended up looking stupid. We should be beating Arbroath at home but the cup is known to cause upsets and our home form is poor so lets not take too much for granted.

MB62
02-12-2014, 12:24 PM
I have to admit, I have read next to nothing about the idea/proposal from Buyhibs and apart from Paul Kane and King Paddy, have no idea even who is involved with them.
I have never been a big supporter of STF, that goes way back to my involvement with HOH and our Invest or Sell days, but the man deserves credit for getting involved in the first place and giving us a sound financial footing.
Would it be a good thing to see him sell to a new owner? absolutely, but IMO it has to be somebody/a group with as sound (or near anyway) financial background as STF because despite everything, I do feel the club is financially safe with him and he wouldn't do a dirty on us.
On that basis, my feeling is 'Buyhibs' are not the right group to do this. Whilst they are no doubt Hibs men with the greatest of intention, my feeling is they are a group of fans with not much finance behind them and hoping that they get enough backing from the support to oust STF.
I'm not that desperate to get rid of STF (Petrie is a different kettle of fish) that I would like to see him sell for the sake of change. It would be good to see him sell to another mega millionaire Hibby, or a wee group of near millionaire Hibbies, but for me, a group of well intentioned fans with very little money behind them is not progress for me, if I have got this wrong with my view of Buyhibs then I unreservedly apologise to all concerned.
My lack of detailed interest in this probably says a lot about my current state of mind regarding the club. We have been heading on a downward spiral for a good few years now and I have been losing interest because of it. Change is needed at the very top but not to just anyone.

The Falcon
02-12-2014, 03:07 PM
I disagree, if a viable option came up who were able to buy the club and take us forward i think a majority of the support would want it.

I think STF would want it.

The key word is "viable" though. They are asking STF to name his price and refusing to say what they are prepared to bid, whilst letting everyone know that they have "investors" who don't want to be identified for fear that STF will raise the asking price. This tells me that the financial backers they have are so wealthy that STF's eyes will rapidly rotate with £ signs at the very mention of their name, or they are bluffing and talking Rafael in the hope that STF will hand it over on their say so.

Very amateurish.

BuyHibs
02-12-2014, 11:13 PM
Evening,

please be reminded that we have our Q&A session tomorrow at the Hibernian Supporters association Sunnyside at 7.30PM to which all supporters are welcome. We look to speak to any supporter or just wants questions answered.

We hope to see you tomorrow

BuyHibs Team

Iain G
02-12-2014, 11:36 PM
I think STF would want it.

The key word is "viable" though. They are asking STF to name his price and refusing to say what they are prepared to bid, whilst letting everyone know that they have "investors" who don't want to be identified for fear that STF will raise the asking price. This tells me that the financial backers they have are so wealthy that STF's eyes will rapidly rotate with £ signs at the very mention of their name, or they are bluffing and talking Rafael in the hope that STF will hand it over on their say so.

Very amateurish.

I would think the big issue for STF is that for him to sell the club onto a new sets of owners they need to prove to him it is in the clubs best interests and they have a real, workable, actual plan to ensure the club stays in good health for many years to come. I kinda feel if they can prove this he won't be as hard to deal with on the upfront price, or am I just being naive :wink:

Ozyhibby
03-12-2014, 12:08 AM
While I'm not impressed with how BuyHibs have went about things so far, I think STF has also been disrespectful to the Hibs support by failing to outline his plans for the club.
We are in a terrible state and yet he has not said a word recently.
He is basically saying it's my club and I'll do what the F I like, which is fine but he may find a lot of people opt out of following the club in such circumstances.

Peevemor
03-12-2014, 12:16 AM
While I'm not impressed with how BuyHibs have went about things so far, I think STF has also been disrespectful to the Hibs support by failing to outline his plans for the club.
We are in a terrible state and yet he has not said a word recently.
He is basically saying it's my club and I'll do what the F I like, which is fine but he may find a lot of people opt out of following the club in such circumstances.

I disagree 100%. The club, through LD, has been in consultation with the fans regarding many issues. If there are to be changes to the club's ownership set-up, the fans will be informed in good time.

chippy
03-12-2014, 07:08 AM
I've been a regular reader of .net since the early 2000s and been a very occasional poster. The last 5 months though has given me cause for concern. It appears to me that many posters are agenda driven to undermine any challenge to the current regime. That is very clear from the contributions from many regular posters. I wonder how many of you will be at the Hibs club tonight? I reckon some of you are genuine hibees with genuine concerns but I'm not convinced about some who have launched quite uneccesary smears against the guid Hibs fans trying to change things. There does seem to be an intent from somewhere to try and kill of BH. I am astonished that Hibs fans would not want a democratically structured fan led body to have at least a partial stakeholding in the ownership of Hibs.

DarlingtonHibee
03-12-2014, 07:30 AM
Evening,

please be reminded that we have our Q&A session tomorrow at the Hibernian Supporters association Sunnyside at 7.30PM to which all supporters are welcome. We look to speak to any supporter or just wants questions answered.

We hope to see you tomorrow

BuyHibs Team

Any chance of it being videoed and posted on here ?

marinello59
03-12-2014, 07:35 AM
I've been a regular reader of .net since the early 2000s and been a very occasional poster. The last 5 months though has given me cause for concern. It appears to me that many posters are agenda driven to undermine any challenge to the current regime. That is very clear from the contributions from many regular posters. I wonder how many of you will be at the Hibs club tonight? I reckon some of you are genuine hibees with genuine concerns but I'm not convinced about some who have launched quite uneccesary smears against the guid Hibs fans trying to change things. There does seem to be an intent from somewhere to try and kill of BH. I am astonished that Hibs fans would not want a democratically structured fan led body to have at least a partial stakeholding in the ownership of Hibs.

Agenda? That seems to be the word of the week. What exactly do you mean by agenda driven? And perhaps you could list the smears. Smearing people goes beyond valid criticism and suggests a structured campaign of some sort is in operation. People should be called out for that.
Thanks for acknowledging that some of the posters here are genuine Hibees. :aok:

blackpoolhibs
03-12-2014, 07:55 AM
I've been a regular reader of .net since the early 2000s and been a very occasional poster. The last 5 months though has given me cause for concern. It appears to me that many posters are agenda driven to undermine any challenge to the current regime. That is very clear from the contributions from many regular posters. I wonder how many of you will be at the Hibs club tonight? I reckon some of you are genuine hibees with genuine concerns but I'm not convinced about some who have launched quite uneccesary smears against the guid Hibs fans trying to change things. There does seem to be an intent from somewhere to try and kill of BH. I am astonished that Hibs fans would not want a democratically structured fan led body to have at least a partial stakeholding in the ownership of Hibs.

Nobody wants a new owner than me, but ffs this lot have given me nothing to get on board with to support their aims. When they are asked a question a searching question they have NO answers. If they can't get the fans on board, especially one like me, what chance do you think they have with the current owner?

Just Alf
03-12-2014, 08:36 AM
I've been a regular reader of .net since the early 2000s and been a very occasional poster. The last 5 months though has given me cause for concern. It appears to me that many posters are agenda driven to undermine any challenge to the current regime. That is very clear from the contributions from many regular posters. I wonder how many of you will be at the Hibs club tonight? I reckon some of you are genuine hibees with genuine concerns but I'm not convinced about some who have launched quite uneccesary smears against the guid Hibs fans trying to change things. There does seem to be an intent from somewhere to try and kill of BH. I am astonished that Hibs fans would not want a democratically structured fan led body to have at least a partial stakeholding in the ownership of Hibs.

I'm guessing you might need to pay more attention then.... the trend on here is that is exactly what is wanted (the bit in bold) .... we just need/want BH to come up with the goods to let us see they are indeed the way forward.

Hibby Kay-Yay
03-12-2014, 08:41 AM
My biggest concern with Buy Hibs is their lack of credibility. Without that I am unable to take them seriously on the ownership of our club.

Peevemor
03-12-2014, 08:42 AM
I've been a regular reader of .net since the early 2000s and been a very occasional poster. The last 5 months though has given me cause for concern. It appears to me that many posters are agenda driven to undermine any challenge to the current regime. That is very clear from the contributions from many regular posters. I wonder how many of you will be at the Hibs club tonight? I reckon some of you are genuine hibees with genuine concerns but I'm not convinced about some who have launched quite uneccesary smears against the guid Hibs fans trying to change things. There does seem to be an intent from somewhere to try and kill of BH. I am astonished that Hibs fans would not want a democratically structured fan led body to have at least a partial stakeholding in the ownership of Hibs.

I don't think anyone is against that (though what purpose it would serve I don't know, especially since 2 new board members are soon to be elected by the supporters). What people are wary of is being asked to back (as yet) secret investors with no apparent plan as to who the club will be run.

Ronniekirk
03-12-2014, 09:04 AM
I would think the big issue for STF is that for him to sell the club onto a new sets of owners they need to prove to him it is in the clubs best interests and they have a real, workable, actual plan to ensure the club stays in good health for many years to come. I kinda feel if they can prove this he won't be as hard to deal with on the upfront price, or am I just being naive :wink:

He has certainly gone on record in relation to your first couple of points ,which is why I find the Buy Hibs approach to date strange as from answers given so far they can't demonstrate they have Workable viable option ,and that seems to be the consensus on here so it's understandable why STF Hasn't agreed to meet ,the way to hAve brought that about would have been to meet with the Board first and not just dismiss that out of hand .
Not convinced there will be a great turn out tonight iether in the lead up to Christmass folk have more pressing financial issues of Thier own at this time of year

As to whether STF would only want a fair price if a potential buyer met his other criteria Thats a possibility given he is a Philanthropist .

JimBHibees
03-12-2014, 09:49 AM
I've been a regular reader of .net since the early 2000s and been a very occasional poster. The last 5 months though has given me cause for concern. It appears to me that many posters are agenda driven to undermine any challenge to the current regime. That is very clear from the contributions from many regular posters. I wonder how many of you will be at the Hibs club tonight? I reckon some of you are genuine hibees with genuine concerns but I'm not convinced about some who have launched quite uneccesary smears against the guid Hibs fans trying to change things. There does seem to be an intent from somewhere to try and kill of BH. I am astonished that Hibs fans would not want a democratically structured fan led body to have at least a partial stakeholding in the ownership of Hibs.

Couldnt disagree more, there is overwhelming move for change in what I have read on this site especially since relegation however that isnt the same as thinking any approach is better. All these proposals should be scrutinised and questions asked. This group in particular have shown up until now nothing like the capability required to takeover Hibs. Basic questions arent answered, teasing comments about investors in the background, unsubstantiated claims put out without any explanation etc.

If this group arent happy about being criticised I tend to think they need to look abit closer to home and be genuinely honest about how viable their approach really is.

Kaiser1962
03-12-2014, 09:51 AM
Nobody wants a new owner than me, but ffs this lot have given me nothing to get on board with to support their aims. When they are asked a question a searching question they have NO answers. If they can't get the fans on board, especially one like me, what chance do you think they have with the current owner?

:agree:

While I am not sure the actual owner is the problem I agree with the gist of this. If someone came along that had STF's blessing then I, too, would be all for it. Buy Hibs, from what I have seen and heard, are not that potential owner although I am still there, wanting to be convinced.

ahibby
03-12-2014, 10:46 AM
Wrong time and not a viable option anyway. Feels like Hearts are doing it so we should too and that's no reason at all imo. We are in safe hands and that means a lot to me. Yes there are issues but the devil we know is better at the moment.

Geo_1875
03-12-2014, 11:08 AM
Wrong time and not a viable option anyway. Feels like Hearts are doing it so we should too and that's no reason at all imo. We are in safe hands and that means a lot to me. Yes there are issues but the devil we know is better at the moment.

Hertz are doing what though? They are no nearer to fan ownership than we are. They have a plan that might end up with fan ownership but there is a long way to go. Successful fan ownership like Barcelona and some of the German clubs still involves huge debt and huge tv income. Scottish fan ownership looks like Albion Rovers. I don't want to own a football club, I want to support them.

Sioux
03-12-2014, 11:15 AM
Evening,

please be reminded that we have our Q&A session tomorrow at the Hibernian Supporters association Sunnyside at 7.30PM to which all supporters are welcome. We look to speak to any supporter or just wants questions answered.

We hope to see you tomorrow

BuyHibs Team

Can you please sort out the grammar etc. This example is not in isolation, even the literature on your website contains bad examples.

The 'buyout' is obviously a huge issue for the club and fans. Professionalism must, in my view, be at the forefront of your campaign. When reaching out to the public, irrespective of which sector of industry or commerce is invloved, it is absolutely essential that your message is at least in a presentable form to those your are trying to entice. Would you trust a double glazing firm, or a PPI recovery agent if their advertisements included spelling mistakes and poor grammar? I wouldn't.

There are a number of references in these threads to your professionalism (lack of) and amateurism. You'd do well to at least consider some of these concerns. Getting the easy bits right is the minimum standard. Poor communication in this day and age is a recipe for failure.

:agree:

marinello59
03-12-2014, 05:33 PM
Don't forget the Q and A session is on tonight at 7:30.

http://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?294832-Face-to-Face-Q-amp-A-3rd-December-HSA-Sunnyside

chippy
03-12-2014, 06:30 PM
Can you please sort out the grammar etc. This example is not in isolation, even the literature on your website contains bad examples.

The 'buyout' is obviously a huge issue for the club and fans. Professionalism must, in my view, be at the forefront of your campaign. When reaching out to the public, irrespective of which sector of industry or commerce is invloved, it is absolutely essential that your message is at least in a presentable form to those your are trying to entice. Would you trust a double glazing firm, or a PPI recovery agent if their advertisements included spelling mistakes and poor grammar? I wouldn't.

There are a number of references in these threads to your professionalism (lack of) and amateurism. You'd do well to at least consider some of these concerns. Getting the easy bits right is the minimum standard. Poor communication in this day and age is a recipe for failure.

:agree:
Are you for real. Give these guys a break. Criticising because of a typo or grammar not to your high standards is crackers. I trust all your communications are gold standard?

blackpoolhibs
03-12-2014, 06:38 PM
Wrong time and not a viable option anyway. Feels like Hearts are doing it so we should too and that's no reason at all imo. We are in safe hands and that means a lot to me. Yes there are issues but the devil we know is better at the moment.

I disagree, when we have been on the slide under this owner for the length of time we have.

When the club are currently in a footballing crisis playing football in the 2nd tier in Scotland when the top league was at its weakest in my living memory, i'd say it was exactly the right time to look for a new owner.

The current owners time was up a long time ago in my opinion.

bingo70
03-12-2014, 06:42 PM
Are you for real. Give these guys a break. Criticising because of a typo or grammar not to your high standards is crackers. I trust all your communications are gold standard?

I think it's a valid point Tbh.

Of course there's bigger issues at hand but imo it does send a signal about the professionalism of the organisation.

If it was just a poster I'd agree with you as my grammar and spelling is honking as well but if I'm going to be paying money to a company there's certain minimum standards I'd expect.

chippy
03-12-2014, 07:22 PM
Can you please sort out the grammar etc. This example is not in isolation, even the literature on your website contains bad examples.

The 'buyout' is obviously a huge issue for the club and fans. Professionalism must, in my view, be at the forefront of your campaign. When reaching out to the public, irrespective of which sector of industry or commerce is invloved, it is absolutely essential that your message is at least in a presentable form to those your are trying to entice. Would you trust a double glazing firm, or a PPI recovery agent if their advertisements included spelling mistakes and poor grammar? I wouldn't.

There are a number of references in these threads to your professionalism (lack of) and amateurism. You'd do well to at least consider some of these concerns. Getting the easy bits right is the minimum standard. Poor communication in this day and age is a recipe for failure.

:agree:
Are you for real. Give these guys a break. Criticising because of a typo or grammar not to your high standards is crackers. I trust all your communications are gold standard?

marinello59
03-12-2014, 07:23 PM
Are you for real. Give these guys a break. Criticising because of a typo or grammar not to your high standards is crackers. I trust all your communications are gold standard?

I tend to agree about that. A but unfair to pick up on the grammar of a post made on a footy fans forum no matter who posted it.

sleeping giant
03-12-2014, 07:37 PM
I tend to agree about that. A but unfair to pick up on the grammar of a post made on a footy fans forum no matter who posted it.

Irks me too.
It's like the last form of acceptable abuse.

blackpoolhibs
03-12-2014, 10:08 PM
Is tonights meeting still going?

oconnors_strip
03-12-2014, 11:17 PM
Is tonights meeting still going?

It finished at 9pm, there was only 8 fans plus buyhibs people there. Thought there would have been more from here tbh!

Ozyhibby
04-12-2014, 12:02 AM
It was a good meeting tonight, I felt. I was struck by how much these guys stressed it was not about them, it was about us and what we want for the club.
Bit disappointed we could not get the same sort of numbers along as the Bounce did on Monday.

Baldy
04-12-2014, 01:09 AM
Bit disappointed we could not get the same sort of numbers along as the Bounce did on Monday.

I think the fact the St Pats branch were invited on Monday swelled the numbers are they are the most active and interactive branch and are always willing to do things that are Hibs related

bigwheel
04-12-2014, 06:56 AM
So I'll say upfront I'm not a fan of the current BuyHibs proposal ...its lacks compelling reasons for me , and lacks sustainability without commitment of quality larger investors ...

The poor turnout must leave the team behind this reflecting hard on the lack of support they currently have.

Perhaps it will be a deep enough issue that they rework what they are proposing and also their lack of engagement with the current Hibs board. To deal with Farmer , you have to deal with Petrie - get over it, or give up ....

I'd love to support a real alternative .

marinello59
04-12-2014, 07:33 AM
It was a good meeting tonight, I felt. I was struck by how much these guys stressed it was not about them, it was about us and what we want for the club.
Bit disappointed we could not get the same sort of numbers along as the Bounce did on Monday.

Were there any questions asked and answered or was it more of a presentation?
That is a disappointing turnout especially as they have had weeks to drum up support for their plans. When BuyHibs appeared live and here and on the Bounce last week there was plenty of interaction here but not one question asked over there. I would suggest that the appetite for this is the same throughout the whole Hibs support and the fact that you post on a particular forum or don't even use the internet makes no difference at all.

Ozyhibby
04-12-2014, 10:10 AM
Were there any questions asked and answered or was it more of a presentation?
That is a disappointing turnout especially as they have had weeks to drum up support for their plans. When BuyHibs appeared live and here and on the Bounce last week there was plenty of interaction here but not one question asked over there. I would suggest that the appetite for this is the same throughout the whole Hibs support and the fact that you post on a particular forum or don't even use the internet makes no difference at all.

There were lots of questions asked and they all were answered as openly as possible.
The main question that could not be answered was 'how much does STF want for the club?'
They appeared to take on board that a lot of people think they need to engage the current board and I think we will see movement on that.
They also accepted that dealing with the forums had been a challenge.
They also made clear that the pledges just now were just a show of hands for greater fan involvement in the ownership of the club and that no money would be taken without further permission being sought.
They accepted that it is difficult to get people to sign up while they don't know who the investors waiting in the wings are which is why they are stressing that no money will be taken until these people are known. You will then be asked for your permission again to proceed. Maybe it's time for us to start signing up so we can see who these people are?
They also made it clear a number of times that they are not seeking to be running Hibs.
They have been a bit taken aback by some of the personal criticism they have received on here but they'll get over.
It was stressed a number of times that this is for the fans and the more we engage in it the more it will reflect what we want it to be.

grunt
04-12-2014, 10:18 AM
They accepted that it is difficult to get people to sign up while they don't know who the investors waiting in the wings are which is why they are stressing that no money will be taken until these people are known. You will then be asked for your permission again to proceed. Maybe it's time for us to start signing up so we can see who these people are?Sorry but this does not make sense to me. If they realise that people aren't pledging until they know who the investors are, the answer is not to ask them once again to pledge. The answer is, tell us who the investors are?

Peevemor
04-12-2014, 10:25 AM
Sorry but this does not make sense to me. If they realise that people aren't pledging until they know who the investors are, the answer is not to ask them once again to pledge. The answer is, tell us who the investors are?

:agree: Together with an outline of their plans for the future.

Ozyhibby
04-12-2014, 10:29 AM
Sorry but this does not make sense to me. If they realise that people aren't pledging until they know who the investors are, the answer is not to ask them once again to pledge. The answer is, tell us who the investors are?

The investors only want to be involved if the fans show they want change. This needs to be driven by the fans. BuyHibs are trying to gage the level of support for change at the club by getting people to pledge to the scheme. Once they reach a certain amount, then the investors will come forward and people will then be given an option on whether they will proceed or not.
Right now, all that's really been asked of us is do you think we need change and do you think a level of fan ownership could work?
If the answer is yes, then you can pledge just now knowing that if the final model or the investors who come forward are not to your taste hen you have the option of pulling out.

Ozyhibby
04-12-2014, 10:35 AM
:agree: Together with an outline of their plans for the future.

BuyHibs made it clear last night that their plans for the future were to encourage the missing 5000 fans from Easter road back to the club by putting a better team on the pitch.
Once the investors are known it will be incumbent on them to explain their plans for the club to us the fans. It will then be for us to say whether we wish to proceed with them or not.
First of all, BuyHibs are trying to find out if there is an appetite for change at the club within the support.

grunt
04-12-2014, 10:37 AM
The investors only want to be involved if the fans show they want change. This needs to be driven by the fans. BuyHibs are trying to gage the level of support for change at the club by getting people to pledge to the scheme. Once they reach a certain amount, then the investors will come forward and people will then be given an option on whether they will proceed or not.

How much is the "certain amount"?

lucky
04-12-2014, 10:42 AM
BuyHibs need to be clearer on their plans. Every question is answered with a non answer. Oz even your posts are going round in circles. If they want my cash I want clarity

Ozyhibby
04-12-2014, 10:45 AM
How much is the "certain amount"?

I would think that to show that the support at large were looking for change at the club, then around 4000 pledges would, I think, show we are serious. I think if we got to that level then we would right to expect people to start coming forward at that point. What do you think?

JimBHibees
04-12-2014, 10:48 AM
BuyHibs made it clear last night that their plans for the future were to encourage the missing 5000 fans from Easter road back to the club by putting a better team on the pitch.
Once the investors are known it will be incumbent on them to explain their plans for the club to us the fans. It will then be for us to say whether we wish to proceed with them or not.
First of all, BuyHibs are trying to find out if there is an appetite for change at the club within the support.

Cart before the horse for me. What motivation would investors have in maintaining secrecy? Other question would be why dont they outline their plans in detail without possibly disclosing their identity. Too many unknowns to be a viable bid IMO.

Ozyhibby
04-12-2014, 10:51 AM
BuyHibs need to be clearer on their plans. Every question is answered with a non answer. Oz even your posts are going round in circles. If they want my cash I want clarity

They don't want your cash until they have given you the clarity you seek.
There are a lot of unknowns at this stage, which is why no pledges will be converted until such times as you know the unknowns.
They are just asking people to pledge just now to show that change is what people want.

grunt
04-12-2014, 10:52 AM
I would think that to show that the support at large were looking for change at the club, then around 4000 pledges would, I think, show we are serious. I think if we got to that level then we would right to expect people to start coming forward at that point. What do you think?I don't think you want to hear what I think, because in the first instance I'm sceptical that fan ownership can work in Scotland. Secondly, with a season ticket base of what, 8,000, many of whom will be children and students, the likelihood of getting 4,000 people to show interest in owning the club is so small it doesn't even register with me. For BuyHibs to state that they want to entice people back to ER "by putting a better team on the park" is just ridiculous and vacuous marketing twaddle. We all want that - the issue is how it is funded. Lastly, I simply don't see any significant desire within the Hibs support to "own" the club.

jdships
04-12-2014, 10:52 AM
:agree: Together with an outline of their plans for the future.

Absolutely correct !
Fed up with "spin" if they want our support there has to be a sustainable plan put forward .
Not too much to ask - is it ?

Ozyhibby
04-12-2014, 10:55 AM
Cart before the horse for me. What motivation would investors have in maintaining secrecy? Other question would be why dont they outline their plans in detail without possibly disclosing their identity. Too many unknowns to be a viable bid IMO.

I can't speak for the investors but it may be that they have no interest in taking over the club without first knowing that a change of ownership is what the fans want?
Is it what we want? Maybe most fans are happy to carry on with STF and Petrie?
It's up to us to show we want change.

Ozyhibby
04-12-2014, 10:57 AM
Absolutely correct !
Fed up with "spin" if they want our support there has to be a sustainable plan put forward .
Not too much to ask - is it ?

Before a single pledge is converted, a sustainable plan will be put forward.
It's difficult to do just now because they don't have a figure from STF.

Ozyhibby
04-12-2014, 11:12 AM
I don't think you want to hear what I think, because in the first instance I'm sceptical that fan ownership can work in Scotland. Secondly, with a season ticket base of what, 8,000, many of whom will be children and students, the likelihood of getting 4,000 people to show interest in owning the club is so small it doesn't even register with me. For BuyHibs to state that they want to entice people back to ER "by putting a better team on the park" is just ridiculous and vacuous marketing twaddle. We all want that - the issue is how it is funded. Lastly, I simply don't see any significant desire within the Hibs support to "own" the club.

I'll try answer your points one by one.
On you scepticism of fan ownership, it will be incumbent on BuyHibs to win you over and show you they have a plan to make it work. At least you did not say you were dead against it.
FoH managed to get 10,000 people signed up, I don't see why we can't get 4000. 4000 was my figure so don't hold that against BuyHibs, they may have another figure in mind.
I agree we all want a better team on the park, which means it should be easy to get fans onside. We all want the same thing. It would be easier to fund a better team if we had 4000 fans chipping into a fund that went straight to the manager? No? That is a possibility.
On your last point, it's up to BuyHibs to stoke up the desire among the Hibs fans to want change at our club.
Hope that helps.

Peevemor
04-12-2014, 11:27 AM
I'll try answer your points one by one.
On you scepticism of fan ownership, it will be incumbent on BuyHibs to win you over and show you they have a plan to make it work. At least you did not say you were dead against it.
FoH managed to get 10,000 people signed up, I don't see why we can't get 4000. 4000 was my figure so don't hold that against BuyHibs, they may have another figure in mind.
I agree we all want a better team on the park, which means it should be easy to get fans onside. We all want the same thing. It would be easier to fund a better team if we had 4000 fans chipping into a fund that went straight to the manager? No? That is a possibility.
On your last point, it's up to BuyHibs to stoke up the desire among the Hibs fans to want change at our club.
Hope that helps.

But they wouldn't, surely the "4000" fans would be paying up their 51% (total) share of the club?

Ozyhibby
04-12-2014, 11:32 AM
But they wouldn't, surely the "4000" fans would be paying up their 51% (total) share of the club?

We don't know until STF tells people his plans for the club. It may be that he is happy for the club to go into community ownership for a smaller consideration than he would normally look for. This would free up the fans pledge money for improving the team.

Andy74
04-12-2014, 11:40 AM
The investors only want to be involved if the fans show they want change. This needs to be driven by the fans. BuyHibs are trying to gage the level of support for change at the club by getting people to pledge to the scheme. Once they reach a certain amount, then the investors will come forward and people will then be given an option on whether they will proceed or not.
Right now, all that's really been asked of us is do you think we need change and do you think a level of fan ownership could work?
If the answer is yes, then you can pledge just now knowing that if the final model or the investors who come forward are not to your taste hen you have the option of pulling out.

Do you have a connection to the group? You seem to be clearer on their intentions than they are and you seem to know something about 'the investors'.

Ozyhibby
04-12-2014, 11:50 AM
Do you have a connection to the group? You seem to be clearer on their intentions than they are and you seem to know something about 'the investors'.

I absolutely have no knowledge of the investors and my only connection with BuyHibs is that I attended last night and asked questions.
I believe fan ownership can work and think it's up to us what shape that takes.

Ozyhibby
04-12-2014, 11:51 AM
Do you have a connection to the group? You seem to be clearer on their intentions than they are and you seem to know something about 'the investors'.

Do you believe fan ownership can work Andy?

Sergio sledge
04-12-2014, 11:52 AM
They don't want your cash until they have given you the clarity you seek.
There are a lot of unknowns at this stage, which is why no pledges will be converted until such times as you know the unknowns.
They are just asking people to pledge just now to show that change is what people want.

I thought that the survey that NW and SDS organised was claimed by BuyHibs to show that the fans want fan ownership? If it is as they claimed, why does there need to be an extra step in the process where we give our bank details over to them, trusting that this group of people that I have no knowledge of will keep my details secure and not take any money until I give them permission at some undefined later date?

The danger of pledging a certain amount at this stage and then reviewing whether you want to continue it once BuyHibs make their plans and investors known, is that it not only harms BuyHibs if there is a big drop off in conversion of pledges to actual direct debits, but it also will harm Hibs in the long run if the BuyHibs strategy is based on a certain level of pledges which then drops off once BuyHibs own the club.

I'm not against fan ownership, I think that it could work, providing the club aren't relying on fan money to run the club. BuyHibs seem to be suggesting that we will increase our playing budget based on using money from the fan pledges, but this is a dangerous strategy. If the team struggles then direct debits will drop off and we'll be left trying to pay contracts for players and staff with not enough money to pay it.

This is why IMHO BuyHibs are going about this in the wrong way. They should be selling their plan and vision to the fans who will then pledge to join rather than asking for pledges to join before selling their vision. It is a dangerous strategy.

I should say that I would be open to pledging if they can sell a sustainable, sensible plan for the club to me, backed up by investors who have Hibs best interests at heart and will be able to help the club if we ever get into any difficulties, in the same way as STF has done with his loans to the club recently.

Peevemor
04-12-2014, 11:59 AM
We don't know until STF tells people his plans for the club. It may be that he is happy for the club to go into community ownership for a smaller consideration than he would normally look for. This would free up the fans pledge money for improving the team.

What you seem to be suggesting there is STF effectively giving 51% of the club to the fans.

Ozyhibby
04-12-2014, 12:03 PM
I thought that the survey that NW and SDS organised was claimed by BuyHibs to show that the fans want fan ownership? If it is as they claimed, why does there need to be an extra step in the process where we give our bank details over to them, trusting that this group of people that I have no knowledge of will keep my details secure and not take any money until I give them permission at some undefined later date?

The danger of pledging a certain amount at this stage and then reviewing whether you want to continue it once BuyHibs make their plans and investors known, is that it not only harms BuyHibs if there is a big drop off in conversion of pledges to actual direct debits, but it also will harm Hibs in the long run if the BuyHibs strategy is based on a certain level of pledges which then drops off once BuyHibs own the club.

I'm not against fan ownership, I think that it could work, providing the club aren't relying on fan money to run the club. BuyHibs seem to be suggesting that we will increase our playing budget based on using money from the fan pledges, but this is a dangerous strategy. If the team struggles then direct debits will drop off and we'll be left trying to pay contracts for players and staff with not enough money to pay it.

This is why IMHO BuyHibs are going about this in the wrong way. They should be selling their plan and vision to the fans who will then pledge to join rather than asking for pledges to join before selling their vision. It is a dangerous strategy.

I should say that I would be open to pledging if they can sell a sustainable, sensible plan for the club to me, backed up by investors who have Hibs best interests at heart and will be able to help the club if we ever get into any difficulties, in the same way as STF has done with his loans to the club recently.

BuyHibs do not have anyone's bank details, They are held securely by Go Cardless. No one at BuyHibs has the ability to access your bank details.

JimBHibees
04-12-2014, 12:04 PM
I can't speak for the investors but it may be that they have no interest in taking over the club without first knowing that a change of ownership is what the fans want?
Is it what we want? Maybe most fans are happy to carry on with STF and Petrie?
It's up to us to show we want change.

Disagree it is up to whoever wants to take over the club to convince people they have the capability and finance to be able to run the club better. Up till now they havent convinced many from what I can see.

You really have to seriously question the motives of these investors (if they do in fact exist as the website clearly said they had none) motives if they are not willing to a) identify themselves and b) at least provide some meaningful detail for this plan.

As it stands a skeleton has more meat on the bones than this initiative. :greengrin

Ozyhibby
04-12-2014, 12:06 PM
What you seem to be suggesting there is STF effectively giving 51% of the club to the fans.

I don't know what STF's plans are. I don't think anyone on here does. It is hoped that by building up BuyHibs into a credible movement of Fans that STF may tell us, the fans, what his plans are.

Ozyhibby
04-12-2014, 12:22 PM
Disagree it is up to whoever wants to take over the club to convince people they have the capability and finance to be able to run the club better. Up till now they havent convinced many from what I can see.

You really have to seriously question the motives of these investors (if they do in fact exist as the website clearly said they had none) motives if they are not willing to a) identify themselves and b) at least provide some meaningful detail for this plan.

As it stands a skeleton has more meat on the bones than this initiative. :greengrin

I think we actually agree. It is entirely up to the investors to convince each and everyone of us that they have the ability to run the club going forward.
All BuyHibs are trying to do is bring these investors in by showing them the commitment of of fans towards achieving much needed change at the club.

Beefster
04-12-2014, 12:22 PM
They also made clear that the pledges just now were just a show of hands for greater fan involvement in the ownership of the club and that no money would be taken without further permission being sought.

I'm sorry but that's a shambles. It stinks of the pledges being catastrophically low and them moving the goalposts to try and drum up some more.

They did a survey to gauge interest. They now want pledges that aren't actually pledges to gauge interest further. They'll get laughed out of the room if they go to STF and say "We've got £x in pledges but the pledges were just a loose expression of interest so its entirely likely that we will actually lose half of those pledges. So, how much were you wanting?"

Peevemor
04-12-2014, 12:23 PM
I don't know what STF's plans are. I don't think anyone on here does. It is hoped that by building up BuyHibs into a credible movement of Fans that STF may tell us, the fans, what his plans are.

They've got their work cut out.

Ozyhibby
04-12-2014, 12:24 PM
They've got their work cut out.

Absolutely they do. Nothing worthwhile is easy.

Mikey
04-12-2014, 12:26 PM
I'm sorry but that's a shambles. It stinks of the pledges being catastrophically low and them moving the goalposts to try and drum up some more.



It was mentioned at Monday's meeting that pledges are running at just under 300.

Peevemor
04-12-2014, 12:26 PM
I'm sorry but that's a shambles. It stinks of the pledges being catastrophically low and them moving the goalposts to try and drum up some more.

They did a survey to gauge interest. They now want pledges that aren't actually pledges to gauge interest further. They'll get laughed out of the room if they go to STF and say "We've got £x in pledges but the pledges were just a loose expression of interest so its entirely likely that we will actually lose half of those pledges. So, how much were you wanting?"

As I keep saying, if a deal was agreed in principle with STF, the board, the secret investors and BuyHibs, then it could have been presented to the fans as a solid project with real facts and figures. As it stands they have nothing to propose to anyone.

marinello59
04-12-2014, 12:50 PM
I'm sorry but that's a shambles. It stinks of the pledges being catastrophically low and them moving the goalposts to try and drum up some more.

They did a survey to gauge interest. They now want pledges that aren't actually pledges to gauge interest further. They'll get laughed out of the room if they go to STF and say "We've got £x in pledges but the pledges were just a loose expression of interest so its entirely likely that we will actually lose half of those pledges. So, how much were you wanting?"

Now that the pledges are not pledges what they are effectively running is a one question survey. And they are still not getting the answer they want.

Chuck Rhoades
04-12-2014, 12:59 PM
Is it true 10+ .net admins have applied for the vacant position of a fan representative on the current board?

It would certaintly explain the concensus on here towards BuyHibs.

BroxburnHibee
04-12-2014, 01:10 PM
Is it true 10+ .net admins have applied for the vacant position of a fan representative on the current board?

It would certaintly explain the concensus on here towards BuyHibs.

Why don't you come up with a thought of your own instead of trotting out one of Gunners lines.

It's all dotnet's fault seems to be the Bounce ' s main mantra at the moment

Beefster
04-12-2014, 01:18 PM
Is it true 10+ .net admins have applied for the vacant position of a fan representative on the current board?

It would certaintly explain the concensus on here towards BuyHibs.

Decent bit of ****stirring so fair play to you/whoever planted that seed. I reckon you need to check the meaning of consensus and how many folk it would take for that to happen in a group of hundreds/thousands though.

If nothing else, this sort of pish just reinforces the fact that whoever the rep ends up being is on an absolute hiding to nothing.

Disclaimer: I'm not a hibs.net admin, I'm don't know any hibs.net admins and I haven't applied to be a fan representative.

CropleyWasGod
04-12-2014, 01:27 PM
Is it true 10+ .net admins have applied for the vacant position of a fan representative on the current board?

It would certaintly explain the concensus on here towards BuyHibs.

If there is a consensus on here, it's based on reasoned argument and counter argument, looking at the evidence, listening to those who have experience of the practicalities, and coming up with a conclusion that balances emotion and reality.

In short, if the admin pricks are for it, I'm against it.

Ozyhibby
04-12-2014, 01:36 PM
Now that the pledges are not pledges what they are effectively running is a one question survey. And they are still not getting the answer they want.

They are still pledges. You are saying that if a deal can be done and you are impressed with the plans going forward then you are happy to convert your pledge into a direct debit.
It's the exact same set up that early pledgers to FoH faced. Everyone knew they could cancel at anytime but the very fact they had registered in numbers was enough for FoH to tempt Anne Budge to step forward.
Yes, it requires a leap of faith at this stage but it does not require you to put any of your cash at risk.
Your just pledging to help if a way can be found to change the club for the better.

Bostonhibby
04-12-2014, 01:43 PM
Is it true 10+ .net admins have applied for the vacant position of a fan representative on the current board?

It would certaintly explain the concensus on here towards BuyHibs.

It certainly wasn't something I had in mind when I posted the poll BR, but it could be a factor influencing up to 10 peoples individual decisions I guess, if that many have indeed applied. I haven't applied and I don't know anyone who has.

If you stripped all 10 out of the wont be supporting category I don't think it would have a massive impact here at the moment.

What did strike me now though was that whatever the merits of it, the fan(s) on the board proposition is something real and different, it will happen so some people might understandably want that influence, however small. Right now, the Buyhibs proposition (or any other) still seems a bit away from that so the fan on the board boat is maybe one that shouldn't be missed irrespective of what happens next(?)

My personal view of the fan on board option in its present form is that it might at best be a small step to at least improving communication, I'd much prefer it to be a fan on the board with the sort of clout that having a meaningful shareholding in the holding companies shares behind them might create but that's a way off and I haven't seen the beginnings of anything else that is likely to get that clout.

Peevemor
04-12-2014, 01:59 PM
They are still pledges. You are saying that if a deal can be done and you are impressed with the plans going forward then you are happy to convert your pledge into a direct debit.
It's the exact same set up that early pledgers to FoH faced. Everyone knew they could cancel at anytime but the very fact they had registered in numbers was enough for FoH to tempt Anne Budge to step forward.
Yes, it requires a leap of faith at this stage but it does not require you to put any of your cash at risk.
Your just pledging to help if a way can be found to change the club for the better.

No they are not.

A pledge is a solemn promise or undertaking. Pledges aren't conditional.


http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/pledge

Ozyhibby
04-12-2014, 02:07 PM
No they are not.

A pledge is a solemn promise or undertaking. Pledges aren't conditional.


http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/pledge

Are you ok with the rest of what I wrote there?

marinello59
04-12-2014, 02:11 PM
Is it true 10+ .net admins have applied for the vacant position of a fan representative on the current board?

It would certaintly explain the concensus on here towards BuyHibs.

As far as I know no Admin here has put their name forward. Of course there might be one of us dafter than I thought so I could be wrong. Any Admin that did throw their hat in would need to step down from here. We reckon that anybody who has a formal link to the club shouldn't be helping to run an independent fans website. That's been the rule here now for about 7/8 years despite what some choose to believe. I hope that clarifies things for you.
As to your comment about consensus, we just run a talking shop here, there is no editorial policy. In any case who would listen to the admins here?:greengrin

Juice-Terry
04-12-2014, 02:15 PM
No they are not.

A pledge is a solemn promise or undertaking. Pledges aren't conditional.


http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/pledge

A pledge can obviously be conditional: I pledge to do A, if (and only if) X, Y, Z happens. Nothing wrong with that.

Juice-Terry
04-12-2014, 02:18 PM
A pledge can obviously be conditional: I pledge to do A, if (and only if) X, Y, Z happens. Nothing wrong with that.

Or if you like: I promise to scratch your back if you promise to scratch mine. In fact, all (or at least most) promises/pledges contain either implicit or explicit condtions. When you say "I promise to meet you in the pub at 8 tomorrow" you obviously don't mean that "WHATEVER HAPPENS".

Peevemor
04-12-2014, 02:21 PM
Are you ok with the rest of what I wrote there?

No.

"It requires a leap of faith" is the understatement of the year. So far, the only thing that BuyHibs has proposed is how the ownership would be split, but even that may change apparently.

How can they expect people to pledge support to their proposal, when they've yet to propose anything?

Peevemor
04-12-2014, 02:24 PM
A pledge can obviously be conditional: I pledge to do A, if (and only if) X, Y, Z happens. Nothing wrong with that.

Yeah, if you want. It makes the pledges worthless though. :dunno:

Juice-Terry
04-12-2014, 02:36 PM
Yeah, if you want. It makes the pledges worthless though. :dunno:
No it doesn't.

marinello59
04-12-2014, 02:38 PM
They are still pledges. You are saying that if a deal can be done and you are impressed with the plans going forward then you are happy to convert your pledge into a direct debit.
It's the exact same set up that early pledgers to FoH faced. Everyone knew they could cancel at anytime but the very fact they had registered in numbers was enough for FoH to tempt Anne Budge to step forward.
Yes, it requires a leap of faith at this stage but it does not require you to put any of your cash at risk.
Your just pledging to help if a way can be found to change the club for the better.

I guess we are just interpreting that differently then. If I pledge money I'll take a good hard look at things before doing so as I will be committing myself to actually stump up at some point. Merely pledging support would be different, as easy as pressing Like on Facebook.
Thanks for giving us a run down on what was said last night by the way. You appear a bit more convinced at least.

Ozyhibby
04-12-2014, 02:39 PM
No.

"It requires a leap of faith" is the understatement of the year. So far, the only thing that BuyHibs has proposed is how the ownership would be split, but even that may change apparently.

How can they expect people to pledge support to their proposal, when they've yet to propose anything?

They are proposing that the fans should own a large percentage of Hibs in order that the future direction of the club be steered in a direction that is important to the fans. This means concentrating on improving the playing side of the club. No one could accuse the current owners of focussing too much on the playing side.
There is still a lot to be done but it's not proposing nothing.

Peevemor
04-12-2014, 02:43 PM
They are proposing that the fans should own a large percentage of Hibs in order that the future direction of the club be steered in a direction that is important to the fans. This means concentrating on improving the playing side of the club. No one could accuse the current owners of focussing too much on the playing side.
There is still a lot to be done but it's not proposing nothing.

They haven't proposed how that will be done or who will do it. In a business sense (because that what BuyHibs is about) they've proposed absolutely nothing.

Ozyhibby
04-12-2014, 03:03 PM
They haven't proposed how that will be done or who will do it. In a business sense (because that what BuyHibs is about) they've proposed absolutely nothing.

Until STF lets us know his intentions it is impossible to produce a detailed business plan. A business plan that allows for purchasing the club for £1m would be very different from one where the purchase price is £5m.

blackpoolhibs
04-12-2014, 03:03 PM
I wont pledge a penny until i know who the investors are, and how they want to go about running things. I wont pledge now on something i know nothing about.

I'd imagine most folk who want change feel the same way. PS i'm not an admin or employed by Hibs. :wink:

Pretty Boy
04-12-2014, 03:10 PM
Is it true 10+ .net admins have applied for the vacant position of a fan representative on the current board?

It would certaintly explain the concensus on here towards BuyHibs.

Yep.

We're all tossers, I read that somewhere, and applied en masse.

Peevemor
04-12-2014, 03:17 PM
Until STF lets us know his intentions it is impossible to produce a detailed business plan. A business plan that allows for purchasing the club for £1m would be very different from one where the purchase price is £5m.

I keep hearing this. STF has always said that he would sell Hibs if the right offer is made, ie. one that safeguards the future of the club.

It's not for him to state his intentions, he isn't actively looking to sell (as far as I know). It's for prospective buyers to approach him with a proposal in place. If STF then wants them to meet with the board in the first instance, then they meet with the board.

Ozyhibby
04-12-2014, 03:27 PM
I wont pledge a penny until i know who the investors are, and how they want to go about running things. I wont pledge now on something i know nothing about.

I'd imagine most folk who want change feel the same way. PS i'm not an admin or employed by Hibs. :wink:

It's good that you have not ruled it out though. Many Yams did not sign up with FoH until after Anne Budge showed up, which was quite late in the day.

Ozyhibby
04-12-2014, 03:47 PM
I keep hearing this. STF has always said that he would sell Hibs if the right offer is made, ie. one that safeguards the future of the club.

It's not for him to state his intentions, he isn't actively looking to sell (as far as I know). It's for prospective buyers to approach him with a proposal in place. If STF then wants them to meet with the board in the first instance, then they meet with the board.

I agree with the last part. Hopefully we will see some movement on this.
It would be a lot easier to put a proposal in place if people knew what STF wanted for Hibs.
BuyHibs can't just walk in and say here's ou offer, take it or leave it. A little bit of negotiation will be needed.

PatHead
04-12-2014, 03:54 PM
I went last night to hear what BuyHibs had to say. I had extreme reservations before going but I am in favour of a proportion of fan ownership if it protects the club from a Charles Green type in the years to come. I was therefore going with an open mind.

The turnout was definitely disappointing from both supporters and the BuyHibs board as no Andy or Neil was there. I understand they both had good reasons as one had a family emergency and the other is in Paris on business. (Don’t know the supporters reasons for not being there! J )

What I did find from the remainder of the board were dedicated, enthusiastic and committed Hibs supporters who want the best for the club. They are not in it for themselves. All stated that they did not anticipate being on the Hibs board in the event of a fans Buyout being put in place. They wanted to act as a catalyst for change and to get the ball rolling.

They also stated that they were willing to listen to what supporters wanted and that they held a vote at Monday’s meeting about whether they should meet the board which was about 50/50. Last night’s vote was 7-1 in favour of meeting the Hibs board. They will discuss this.

The issue of the mystery backers was brought up time and time again. The bottom line is that fans will not get onboard until they know who they are and the backers will not reveal themselves until there is some commitment. The only information gleaned was that they would not entertain a Brian Kennedy type or a Celtic minded businessman/woman. Any backers must be and are - at least so far - died in the wool Hibs supporters.

The percentage of the club owned by the supporters could be as little as 25.1% or 51% depending on what we as supporters want. This is not them changing tack or backing down but simply them listening to what supporters want and trying to meet with their objectives.

Whilst some of the BuyHibs board struck me as naive in a business sense – hope you don’t find this insulting- they are wanting to see change at Easter Road and the Training Centre for the better and on supporters terms rather than us having to rush through change as succession planning. They see this as the beginning of a journey and should be credited for starting the debate rather than ridiculed by some.

The subject of purchasing the whole of East Mains was raised and again is something they will look at rather than a portion.

The bottom line is they do not see a short game, they would not expect to complete a purchase in the short term and they are trying to gauge the appetite for an element of support ownership. A period of up to 3 years before completing was mentioned at one time.

How could this progress?

I think at least a couple of the mystery backers need to show their hand and they need to meet the Board if they want to get any impetus. You never know they might find out the asking price which would get some meat on the bones and let us know how much requires to be raised. They also need to formulate and publish a business plan in the short medium and long term to get us onside.

I am worried that people might think I am picking on them by saying what they need to do but the bottom line is that they want to buy, the seller isn’t in a rush to sell and is holding all the cards at this time.

I won't commit just now but want to see how they progress and wouldn't rule it out.

Leithenhibby
04-12-2014, 04:07 PM
It's good that you have not ruled it out though. Many Yams did not sign up with FoH until after Anne Budge showed up, which was quite late in the day.

Many Hearts fans did in fact buy shares, was it not somthing like £1.3 million pounds worth? That was before AB sailed in :wink:

Ozyhibby
04-12-2014, 04:33 PM
Many Hearts fans did in fact buy shares, was it not somthing like £1.3 million pounds worth? That was before AB sailed in :wink:

It still amazes me our board managed to get us in a worse state than them. :-(

Peevemor
04-12-2014, 04:41 PM
It still amazes me our board managed to get us in a worse state than them. :-(

We're not in a worse state than them.

Ozyhibby
04-12-2014, 04:50 PM
Alan Stubbs and Leeann Dempster both disagree with you. Both have said the reason we are so far of the pace in the leagues is because we were in a worse state than Hearts or Rangers.

grunt
04-12-2014, 05:14 PM
Alan Stubbs and Leeann Dempster both disagree with you. Both have said the reason we are so far of the pace in the leagues is because we were in a worse state than Hearts or Rangers.You are confusing - as are many on here - the state of our team and our football management operation with the state of our club.
There are huge differences.
In order to improve the team we don't necessarily need to change our ownership model. This is a fundamental issue which people don't appear to be able to grasp.

blackpoolhibs
04-12-2014, 05:23 PM
You are confusing - as are many on here - the state of our team and our football management operation with the state of our club.
There are huge differences.
In order to improve the team we don't necessarily need to change our ownership model. This is a fundamental issue which people don't appear to be able to grasp.

I'd say that a direct result of who owns us is the main reason the football team is playing where it is.

Ozyhibby
04-12-2014, 05:29 PM
You are confusing - as are many on here - the state of our team and our football management operation with the state of our club.
There are huge differences.
In order to improve the team we don't necessarily need to change our ownership model. This is a fundamental issue which people don't appear to be able to grasp.

A lot of Hibs fans believe the team is the most important thing.
There is no evidence the current board believe this and the fact they cut the first team budget this year highlights that.

grunt
04-12-2014, 05:29 PM
I'd say that a direct result of who owns us is the main reason the football team is playing where it is.Fair enough, you have every right to your opinion. To those who want rid of STF I would just caution, be careful what you wish for. People say that we could not be worse off. I rather believe we could be much worse off.

grunt
04-12-2014, 05:31 PM
A lot of Hibs fans believe the team is the most important thing.
There is no evidence the current board believe this and the fact they cut the first team budget this year highlights that.Ok, let's address this. Are you saying that BuyHibs board would not cut the first team budget? If this is the case, where would they find the additional money from? This is the sort of detail that we need from their business plan.

Stewboy
04-12-2014, 05:33 PM
Alan Stubbs and Leeann Dempster both disagree with you. Both have said the reason we are so far of the pace in the leagues is because we were in a worse state than Hearts or Rangers.

With regards to being miles of the pace I think was more down to hearts resignation to relegation early last season. They got to cut the dead wood (obviously the financial situation helped) and almost started building for this season at Christmas. When the season ended they knew who they had to bring in and hit the ground running.

We on the other hand had a last minute relegation and a sacked management team so it was always going to take longer. I think the recent run shows that?

The Rangers on the other hand are still just playing the bullying card and just aren't learning their lesson

blackpoolhibs
04-12-2014, 05:35 PM
Fair enough, you have every right to your opinion. To those who want rid of STF I would just caution, be careful what you wish for. People say that we could not be worse off. I rather believe we could be much worse off.

:agree:

Ozyhibby
04-12-2014, 05:38 PM
Fair enough, you have every right to your opinion. To those who want rid of STF I would just caution, be careful what you wish for. People say that we could not be worse off. I rather believe we could be much worse off.

I'm racking my brains? Do you have any examples?

grunt
04-12-2014, 05:39 PM
I'm racking my brains? Do you have any examples?Do you mean examples of how we could be worse off?

Thecat23
04-12-2014, 05:41 PM
Fair enough, you have every right to your opinion. To those who want rid of STF I would just caution, be careful what you wish for. People say that we could not be worse off. I rather believe we could be much worse off.

I think when ever a club changes hands most folk feel cautious. Regardless of who buys hibs it's defo time to sell as attendances are very low at ER and one of the reasons is because of the owner and board. Doesn't matter if you like it or not they do have a major factor in why we are in the mess we are.

What happens if Farmer can't do the job anymore? He says he wants the right buyer for hibs but he's also getting on. All this "his son will step up" is hearsay and god forbid anything happened to him we could be in real bother as his family could sell to anyone.

Now is the time for a real change at ER, not everyone is a Romanov or a Whyte. I hope we find a buyer whoever it may be and start to build a better future just like we are trying to build a team on the park to get out this mess.

grunt
04-12-2014, 05:43 PM
... not everyone is a Romanov or a Whyte. I sincerely hope you're right. To me there seems to be more than a fair share of sharks, egotists and charlatans in the world of football ownership.

Thecat23
04-12-2014, 05:45 PM
I sincerely hope you're right. To me there seems to be more than a fair share of sharks, egotists and charlatans in the world of football ownership.

That's why I'd like Farmer to find us a buyer now as he said he'd never sell to someone like that. But the longer it all goes on the more I think we could be sold to anyone!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

blackpoolhibs
04-12-2014, 05:46 PM
I think when ever a club changes hands most folk feel cautious. Regardless of who buys hibs it's defo time to sell as attendances are very low at ER and one of the reasons is because of the owner and board. Doesn't matter if you like it or not they do have a major factor in why we are in the mess we are.

What happens if Farmer can't do the job anymore? He says he wants the right buyer for hibs but he's also getting on. All this "his son will step up" is hearsay and god forbid anything happened to him we could be in real bother as his family could sell to anyone.

Now is the time for a real change at ER, not everyone is a Romanov or a Whyte. I hope we find a buyer whoever it may be and start to build a better future just like we are trying to build a team on the park to get out this mess.

Thats so true, in fact they are the minority. Yes be diligent and try as hard as you can to make sure the right people take the club over, but clubs do change hand every year and we only really hear about the bad ones.

And of course both those clubs were basket cases, and sold to the first ******** who chapped on their doors.

Thecat23
04-12-2014, 05:47 PM
Thats so true, in fact they are the minority. Yes be diligent and try as hard as you can to make sure the right people take the club over, but clubs do change hand every year and we only really hear about the bad ones.

And of course both those clubs were basket cases, and sold to the first ******** who chapped on their doors.

That's right, look at the state of them when both owners came in. They had no real choice we do!!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Ozyhibby
04-12-2014, 05:49 PM
I sincerely hope you're right. To me there seems to be more than a fair share of sharks, egotists and charlatans in the world of football ownership.

The fans owning a large percentage of the club is a way of protecting ourselves from such people.

superfurryhibby
04-12-2014, 06:06 PM
Fair enough, you have every right to your opinion. To those who want rid of STF I would just caution, be careful what you wish for. People say that we could not be worse off. I rather believe we could be much worse off.

That is always the case, we could be worse off, we might be better off. What no one can reasonably deny is that we have lacked leadership off the field. In my view performance is inextricably linked tomanagement and leadership, in any business. Change will come and we as fans need to try and ensure that it is favourable. This is why I am interested in what Buy Hibs have to say.

Brizo
04-12-2014, 06:30 PM
Out of interest what was the attendance at last nights buyhibs Q and A.

Im sure from what I read on the bounce that 35 fans attended Monday nights event.

For me the mystery investors are the big problem. I don't buy the argument that making themselves known will materially effect the selling price. Fans who lived through Duff and Grey and have seen the characters who have pitched up at huns, diets and Dundee etc are understandably highly suspicious of mystery businessmen.

Buyhibs are still unwilling or unable to give us details of any of these investors. I am cautiously sympathetic to buyhibs general aims but unless I know the calibre of person waiting in the wings I wont be buying into their plans.

Mikey
04-12-2014, 06:35 PM
It finished at 9pm, there was only 8 fans plus buyhibs people there. Thought there would have been more from here tbh!


Out of interest what was the attendance at last nights buyhibs Q and A.



See above (post 91).

Chuck Rhoades
04-12-2014, 07:04 PM
Why don't you come up with a thought of your own instead of trotting out one of Gunners lines.

It's all dotnet's fault seems to be the Bounce ' s main mantra at the moment

I have no idea about your Gunner reference other than he's a poster on the Bounce. Also don't agree with the fault part...? Strange post.

Chuck Rhoades
04-12-2014, 07:07 PM
Yep.

We're all tossers, I read that somewhere, and applied en masse.

PB it was a question. Don't understand the casting up of a previous opinion posted elsewhere.

Chuck Rhoades
04-12-2014, 07:10 PM
See above (post 91).

That's a disappointing turn out for them. I would have thought they would have both been attended in larger numbers to help people come to an informed decision either way. Midweek may not have helped mind you.

blackpoolhibs
04-12-2014, 07:13 PM
That's a disappointing turn out for them. I would have thought they would have both been attended in larger numbers to help people come to an informed decision either way. Midweek may not have helped mind you.

I personally think it was the slapdash way they have conducted this process so far that resulted in the low turnout.

DaveF
04-12-2014, 07:13 PM
Is it true 10+ .net admins have applied for the vacant position of a fan representative on the current board?

It would certaintly explain the concensus on here towards BuyHibs.

:faf: I posted that comment on the PM board a while back as a joke and it's been taken as fact by you. Seriously Ross, you need to engage your brain sometimes :greengrin

Mikey
04-12-2014, 07:19 PM
That's a disappointing turn out for them. I would have thought they would have both been attended in larger numbers to help people come to an informed decision either way. Midweek may not have helped mind you.

They had already answered 50 questions posed by hibs.net users and one of them held an impromptu Q&A one night. Maybe there was nothing left to ask!

DaveF
04-12-2014, 07:22 PM
:faf: I posted that comment on the PM board a while back as a joke and it's been taken as fact by you. Seriously Ross, you need to engage your brain sometimes :greengrin

I just checked my post. It was made on the PM board on 24th November with a :devil: smiley on the end and now it's seemingly being traded as probable fact.

Oh dear, someone has an agenda at work.

edit - an No, I've not applied :-)

ancient hibee
04-12-2014, 07:31 PM
These people at Buyhibs who seem to be nice people.Were they selected by "the investors"to represent them or did they start their movement and "the investors" appeared(not out of the woodwork I hope)?Why can't "the investors"simply act like normal business people and approach the board with a plan.Whose plan would it be?"The investors"or Buyhibs?

oconnors_strip
04-12-2014, 07:34 PM
That's a disappointing turn out for them. I would have thought they would have both been attended in larger numbers to help people come to an informed decision either way. Midweek may not have helped mind you.

Think Mondays numbers were better because many were there from st pats branch.

Ozyhibby
04-12-2014, 07:38 PM
They had already answered 50 questions posed by hibs.net users and one of them held an impromptu Q&A one night. Maybe there was nothing left to ask!

I think there is another meeting next week, on the 9th. Anyone confirm?
There are going to be thousands of question need asked and answered, some of them multiple times.

BroxburnHibee
04-12-2014, 07:38 PM
I have no idea about your Gunner reference other than he's a poster on the Bounce. Also don't agree with the fault part...? Strange post.

Of course you don't.

Ozyhibby
04-12-2014, 07:44 PM
These people at Buyhibs who seem to be nice people.Were they selected by "the investors"to represent them or did they start their movement and "the investors" appeared(not out of the woodwork I hope)?Why can't "the investors"simply act like normal business people and approach the board with a plan.Whose plan would it be?"The investors"or Buyhibs?

My understanding was the group got together first but best if BuyHibs answer that one.

blackpoolhibs
04-12-2014, 08:13 PM
2 Meetings held on 2 different nights and less than 50 people have attended these meetings about the purchase of Hibs. I think that tells the people running buyhibs just how well their campaign has gone so far.

They need to start answering questions properly, and let people know just who these investors are or their campaign is dead in the water.

Ozyhibby
04-12-2014, 08:25 PM
2 Meetings held on 2 different nights and less than 50 people have attended these meetings about the purchase of Hibs. I think that tells the people running buyhibs just how well their campaign has gone so far.

They need to start answering questions properly, and let people know just who these investors are or their campaign is dead in the water.

It was a long time after the launch of FoH that Ann Budge was unveiled to the yams. She waited to see if their support was serious before commiting.
They do need to start answering question though.

Chuck Rhoades
04-12-2014, 08:27 PM
:faf: I posted that comment on the PM board a while back as a joke and it's been taken as fact by you. Seriously Ross, you need to engage your brain sometimes :greengrin

I'm not on the PM board.

Chuck Rhoades
04-12-2014, 08:28 PM
I just checked my post. It was made on the PM board on 24th November with a :devil: smiley on the end and now it's seemingly being traded as probable fact.

Oh dear, someone has an agenda at work.

edit - an No, I've not applied :-)

And again, I'm not on the PM board.

DaveF
04-12-2014, 08:31 PM
And again, I'm not on the PM board.

I never said you were?

But someone has nicked that from there and fed it to you as fact, hence the agenda comment. Quite why \ how anyone took it seriously is beyond me :rolleyes:

Chuck Rhoades
04-12-2014, 08:33 PM
It was a long time after the launch of FoH that Ann Budge was unveiled to the yams. She waited to see if their support was serious before commiting.
They do need to start answering question though.

Good point re Budge, however there is a big difference between us and them. For starters, we're not in admin and the Hearts support really didn't have another option but to get behind FoH. We're in a position where we do not need to support a takeover campaign as we do not face administration, or worse.

greenginger
04-12-2014, 08:33 PM
It was a long time after the launch of FoH that Ann Budge was unveiled to the yams. She waited to see if their support was serious before commiting.
They do need to start answering question though.


I don't think Budge was ever part of FoH. FoH had the agreement in the CVA to buy Hearts for £ 2.5 million but soon found out they would never raise the money in time to conclude the deal.

Budge stepped into the CVA deal in their place and with a number of conditions to meet FoH may be able to buy out the Budge in a couple of years time, if they can budge her. :greengrin

bigwheel
04-12-2014, 08:34 PM
It was a long time after the launch of FoH that Ann Budge was unveiled to the yams. She waited to see if their support was serious before commiting.
They do need to start answering question though.

They were about to die though - they didn't need investor names immediately - it was life or death ...we don't have that compelling reason, so Buy Hibs need to make it compelling for fans to support them

Peevemor
04-12-2014, 08:35 PM
It was a long time after the launch of FoH that Ann Budge was unveiled to the yams. She waited to see if their support was serious before commiting.
They do need to start answering question though.

BuyHibs and FoH shouldn't and can't be compared. The circumstances were totally different. In addition, a buyer was
always going to be found for Hearts given the ridiculously low price that was eventually agreed together with the very little debt that was inherited.

Hibs book value is probably about quadruple the amount Budge paid for Hearts.

Chibs
04-12-2014, 08:38 PM
The turnout was definitely disappointing from both supporters and the BuyHibs board as no Andy or Neil was there. I understand they both had good reasons as one had a family emergency and the other is in Paris on business.

Interesting.
Any idea which board member had a "family emergency" as this sounds very familiar to me.

bingo70
04-12-2014, 08:44 PM
The turnout was definitely disappointing from both supporters and the BuyHibs board as no Andy or Neil was there. I understand they both had good reasons as one had a family emergency and the other is in Paris on business.

Interesting.
Any idea which board member had a "family emergency" as this sounds very familiar to me.

According to updates on the pm board it was Neil that had the family emergency.

Is that what you were expecting?

Chibs
04-12-2014, 08:55 PM
According to updates on the pm board it was Neil that had the family emergency.

Is that what you were expecting?
No.
But cannot find anything on PM board that Neil had the Family emergency,perhaps you can direct me.

Ozyhibby
04-12-2014, 11:36 PM
BuyHibs and FoH shouldn't and can't be compared. The circumstances were totally different. In addition, a buyer was
always going to be found for Hearts given the ridiculously low price that was eventually agreed together with the very little debt that was inherited.

Hibs book value is probably about quadruple the amount Budge paid for Hearts.

Hearts were bought totally debt free for £2.5m
While we have more assets than them we also still have the debt to match.
I can't see there being a big difference in the valuation of the two clubs.

BuyHibs
04-12-2014, 11:42 PM
My understanding was the group got together first but best if BuyHibs answer that one.

BuyHibs were established and then spoke to a number of potential investors, all of whom are hibbys. The common consensus was that they would be willing to invest if the price and deal was correct. We are keen to bring the supporters and investors closer and we are working on this.

PatHead
04-12-2014, 11:48 PM
No.
But cannot find anything on PM board that Neil had the Family emergency,perhaps you can direct me.

Neil had a family emergency.

Peevemor
04-12-2014, 11:52 PM
Hearts were bought totally debt free for £2.5m
While we have more assets than them we also still have the debt to match.
I can't see there being a big difference in the valuation of the two clubs.

Nope. ER + EM - debt = somewhere around £10m, 4 times the amount required to buy Hearts from the administrators.

So please stop comparing BuyHibs to the FoH / Budge thing.

Ozyhibby
04-12-2014, 11:55 PM
Nope. ER + EM - debt = somewhere around £10m, 4 times the amount required to buy Hearts from the administrators.

So please stop comparing BuyHibs to the FoH / Budge thing.

Book value and market value are two different things.
I think the book value of Ibrox is now back at about £60m despite it changing hands for about £5m a couple of years ago.

Peevemor
05-12-2014, 12:07 AM
Book value and market value are two different things.
I think the book value of Ibrox is now back at about £60m despite it changing hands for about £5m a couple of years ago.

You're getting mixed up here. You mentioned Budge arriving late on the FoH scene. I pointed out that there was nothing for her nor any other investor to lose given the low purchase price. The Hibs situation is entirely different. There's no urgency to find a buyer - we're not about to go out of existence. Therefore Hibs are worth the exact amount recorded in the accounts unless STF decides otherwise. Get it now?

Ozyhibby
05-12-2014, 12:23 AM
You're getting mixed up here. You mentioned Budge arriving late on the FoH scene. I pointed out that there was nothing for her nor any other investor to lose given the low purchase price. The Hibs situation is entirely different. There's no urgency to find a buyer - we're not about to go out of existence. Therefore Hibs are worth the exact amount recorded in the accounts unless STF decides otherwise. Get it now?

Wouldn't it be good to try find out exactly what STF thinks?

Phil D. Rolls
05-12-2014, 09:52 AM
I think there is another meeting next week, on the 9th. Anyone confirm?
There are going to be thousands of question need asked and answered, some of them multiple times.

Yes, particularly the one about whether the people involved are competent.

Q: Any idea what you are actually doing?
A: Of course.
Q: I'll ask you that again, any idea what you are actually doing?

Andy74
05-12-2014, 10:28 AM
2 Meetings held on 2 different nights and less than 50 people have attended these meetings about the purchase of Hibs. I think that tells the people running buyhibs just how well their campaign has gone so far.

They need to start answering questions properly, and let people know just who these investors are or their campaign is dead in the water.

I think it's fairly dead already and the numbers attending the meetings, level of pledges and lack of support in the polls here suggest all that.

There are only so many chances you get to answer basic questions about what you are doing. The chat from the Director, Ashley was frankly embarrasing and the fact that they are still split on talking to the Board is pretty poor.

I think they will probably feel that some of the questioining and criticism here is being unhelpful to them, actually, I think we are at least keeping the discussion going!

BuyHibs
05-12-2014, 11:04 AM
I think it's fairly dead already and the numbers attending the meetings, level of pledges and lack of support in the polls here suggest all that.

There are only so many chances you get to answer basic questions about what you are doing. The chat from the Director, Ashley was frankly embarrasing and the fact that they are still split on talking to the Board is pretty poor.


I think they will probably feel that some of the questioining and criticism here is being unhelpful to them, actually, I think we are at least keeping the discussion going!

You can be assured we are not dead. You can also be assured there was no split regarding the decision to meet the board , it was unanimous that we say thanks but no thanks. We don't recall you being at the meeting that this was voted on but perhaps you can clarify?

What we have done after our recent discussions is take away comment and constructive criticism and we will have a other board meeting over the coming days and discuss. These discussions will include another debate about meeting the board. That is a open and honest assessment.

We do not mind being criticised and that is always likely to happen when you raise your head above the parapet with a new initiative.

If nothing else ever comes of this it had opened up debate on options.

We all want what is best for the club, we may not have all the answers right now, but does anybody.

Caversham Green
05-12-2014, 11:10 AM
I think it's fairly dead already and the numbers attending the meetings, level of pledges and lack of support in the polls here suggest all that.

There are only so many chances you get to answer basic questions about what you are doing. The chat from the Director, Ashley was frankly embarrasing and the fact that they are still split on talking to the Board is pretty poor.

I think they will probably feel that some of the questioining and criticism here is being unhelpful to them, actually, I think we are at least keeping the discussion going!

We need to remember that BuyHibs is very much in its infancy. FoH has been mentioned, but as I understand it they had been in existence for more than two years before HoMFC went yams up and it was only when the club's very existence was under threat that they came to the fore.

I think they've made a lot of mistakes and I would hope that rather than feeling the criticism is unhelpful they will learn from it and get their act together a bit better. They still haven't convinced me (or presumably others) that their model of fan ownership is better than the alternatives - carrying on as we are, someone else buying the club or any other scheme - and that should IMHO be their very first task.

grunt
05-12-2014, 11:14 AM
We don't recall you being at the meeting that this was voted on but perhaps you can clarify?
:na na:

Ozyhibby
05-12-2014, 11:16 AM
I think it's fairly dead already and the numbers attending the meetings, level of pledges and lack of support in the polls here suggest all that.

There are only so many chances you get to answer basic questions about what you are doing. The chat from the Director, Ashley was frankly embarrasing and the fact that they are still split on talking to the Board is pretty poor.

I think they will probably feel that some of the questioining and criticism here is being unhelpful to them, actually, I think we are at least keeping the discussion going!

I don't see it as dead at all, merely a work in progress.
It has been less than a month since the launch and there has been a fair bit of interest from fans.
There is still a lot of work for them to do, but they appear ready to meet the challenge head on by meeting as many fans as possible.
Have you been to any of the meetings Andy?
What are your thoughts on the ownership of the club? Do you think we should carry on as we are?

Ozyhibby
05-12-2014, 11:24 AM
Yes, particularly the one about whether the people involved are competent.

Q: Any idea what you are actually doing?
A: Of course.
Q: I'll ask you that again, any idea what you are actually doing?

Less than a month since it's launch it appears that, while they have made some mistakes, they have raised the level of debate among Hibs fans about what we want from our club.
Perhaps your question would be more suitable for our current owners, given the position the club are in?

Andy74
05-12-2014, 11:38 AM
You can be assured we are not dead. You can also be assured there was no split regarding the decision to meet the board , it was unanimous that we say thanks but no thanks. We don't recall you being at the meeting that this was voted on but perhaps you can clarify?

What we have done after our recent discussions is take away comment and constructive criticism and we will have a other board meeting over the coming days and discuss. These discussions will include another debate about meeting the board. That is a open and honest assessment.

We do not mind being criticised and that is always likely to happen when you raise your head above the parapet with a new initiative.

If nothing else ever comes of this it had opened up debate on options.

We all want what is best for the club, we may not have all the answers right now, but does anybody.


I'm not sure it will be you that decides if this is dead or not - you need to get the support to keep it alive and not having the answers to fairly fundamental parts of the proposal is causing people to switch off.

So are you not split on talking to the Board? The feedback came from the meetings the last few nights that you were due to discuss again? Perhaps I read the feeback incorrectly that BuyHibs themeselves were now split on it. In any event the fact it isn't just part of the process to engage with those tasked with running the club on behalf of the owner and the fact you need to discuss this is not encouraging. Leeann very publically welcomed a discussion with you and it is very poor form to give her a public snub.

Still, it is you guys who need to win people over and you take whatever course you feel that need to take. The feedback isn't positive though, so quick question, at what point do you accept that this isn't what people want or are you determined to bash on with this even in the Hibs support in general do not want this? I questioned when this launched why now given the recent club survey, which was openly worded, showed that there was no real appetite. The response so far seems to bear that out.

Peevemor
05-12-2014, 11:40 AM
Less than a month since it's launch it appears that, while they have made some mistakes, they have raised the level of debate among Hibs fans about what we want from our club.
Perhaps your question would be more suitable for our current owners, given the position the club are in?

Are you honestly suggesting that it's down to them? Apart from this place being in meltdown since we were relegated (as well as years of previous debate), LD/the board's meetings with fans/fans groups, questionnaires, etc. can't be ignored.

Caversham Green
05-12-2014, 11:41 AM
Less than a month since it's launch it appears that, while they have made some mistakes, they have raised the level of debate among Hibs fans about what we want from our club.
Perhaps your question would be more suitable for our current owners, given the position the club are in?

Do you think it's a good idea to replace one group of people who don't know what they're doing with another group of people who don't know what they're doing?

Andy74
05-12-2014, 11:43 AM
I don't see it as dead at all, merely a work in progress.
It has been less than a month since the launch and there has been a fair bit of interest from fans.
There is still a lot of work for them to do, but they appear ready to meet the challenge head on by meeting as many fans as possible.
Have you been to any of the meetings Andy?
What are your thoughts on the ownership of the club? Do you think we should carry on as we are?

I've not been at the meetings and I've said why - they failed to answer basic questions up until then and I didn't really feel that there was any point wasting my time hearing the same non answers in a different setting.

The way Ashley approach the discussion on here the other night was awful - allegations of asset stripping and so.

My thoughts are well documented on this and other threads on the current ownership and whether we need to do anything about it, particualry if it is going to cost me. I'm still none the wiser about why I need to be thinking about providing someone with money to own a bit of the club (I wouldn't actually get a share myself so I can't even refer to paying money to own a bit of the club).

Ozyhibby
05-12-2014, 11:46 AM
It's almost like it's your job to attack this proposal. You appear to be setting a new benchmark in negativity.
This is a group of Hibs fans trying to find a new way forward for the club which has been appallingly run.
While the status quo may work for you, or vice versa, it is not working for a lot of Hibs fans.
They deserve a fair hearing.

Ozyhibby
05-12-2014, 11:52 AM
Do you think it's a good idea to replace one group of people who don't know what they're doing with another group of people who don't know what they're doing?

We know the people running Hibs don't know what they are doing, you only think that the people running BuyHibs do t know what they are doing.
It's hard to see how anyone could make a worse job of running Hibs. I doubt the club have ever been lower in the Scottish league than they have been this season. If they have, then it has been a long time ago. Nobody previously in charge of Hibs has been as bad at managing team affairs.

Andy74
05-12-2014, 11:54 AM
It's almost like it's your job to attack this proposal. You appear to be setting a new benchmark in negativity.
This is a group of Hibs fans trying to find a new way forward for the club which has been appallingly run.
While the status quo may work for you, or vice versa, it is not working for a lot of Hibs fans.
They deserve a fair hearing.

A fair hearing is what they are getting - genuine questions and crtiticism. They are the ones pushing this when the majority of fans don't seem to fussed.

As I said on the other thread - you are all over this the other way so perhaps you should stop trying to attack other for having their say.

CropleyWasGod
05-12-2014, 11:58 AM
We know the people running Hibs don't know what they are doing, you only think that the people running BuyHibs do t know what they are doing.
It's hard to see how anyone could make a worse job of running Hibs. I doubt the club have ever been lower in the Scottish league than they have been this season. If they have, then it has been a long time ago. Nobody previously in charge of Hibs has been as bad at managing team affairs.

One can only go on the evidence in the public domain, and our own individual experiences, on that.

Peevemor
05-12-2014, 11:59 AM
We know the people running Hibs don't know what they are doing, you only think that the people running BuyHibs do t know what they are doing.
It's hard to see how anyone could make a worse job of running Hibs. I doubt the club have ever been lower in the Scottish league than they have been this season. If they have, then it has been a long time ago. Nobody previously in charge of Hibs has been as bad at managing team affairs.

I'm sure Leeann Dempster will be delighted to read your opinion.

Sergio sledge
05-12-2014, 11:59 AM
We need to remember that BuyHibs is very much in its infancy. FoH has been mentioned, but as I understand it they had been in existence for more than two years before HoMFC went yams up and it was only when the club's very existence was under threat that they came to the fore.

I think that they launched too early. I don't know whether they felt they needed to launch now to keep up the momentum from Petrie Out and the surveys or whether they heard that the club were going to let people know their own plans and wanted to get in first, but they seem to have launched without a fully formed plan in place which has led to them struggling to convince people.

I would like to see them meet with the board and see if there isn't some crossover in their plans where they can work together to achieve what they want to achieve as I think there is some merit in fan ownership and these guys seem passionate about achieving it, as well as LD having a history of helping fans gain some ownership of a football club.

Peevemor
05-12-2014, 12:01 PM
I think that they launched too early. I don't know whether they felt they needed to launch now to keep up the momentum from Petrie Out and the surveys or whether they heard that the club were going to let people know their own plans and wanted to get in first, but they seem to have launched without a fully formed plan in place which has led to them struggling to convince people.

I would like to see them meet with the board and see if there isn't some crossover in their plans where they can work together to achieve what they want to achieve as I think there is some merit in fan ownership and these guys seem passionate about achieving it, as well as LD having a history of helping fans gain some ownership of a football club.

Hear hear!

BuyHibs
05-12-2014, 12:04 PM
I'm not sure it will be you that decides if this is dead or not - you need to get the support to keep it alive and not having the answers to fairly fundamental parts of the proposal is causing people to switch off.

So are you not split on talking to the Board? The feedback came from the meetings the last few nights that you were due to discuss again? Perhaps I read the feeback incorrectly that BuyHibs themeselves were now split on it. In any event the fact it isn't just part of the process to engage with those tasked with running the club on behalf of the owner and the fact you need to discuss this is not encouraging. Leeann very publically welcomed a discussion with you and it is very poor form to give her a public snub.

Still, it is you guys who need to win people over and you take whatever course you feel that need to take. The feedback isn't positive though, so quick question, at what point do you accept that this isn't what people want or are you determined to bash on with this even in the Hibs support in general do not want this? I questioned when this launched why now given the recent club survey, which was openly worded, showed that there was no real appetite. The response so far seems to bear that out.

We think the feedback was and the situation is, and has been mentioned by a few that following feedback we will again discuss the option of meeting with the board. That is not a split, it is taking on board feedback.

We agree we need to gather support and we are working on that and we will continue to work on having dialogue with different groups. Feel free to come along to our next meeting.

Ozyhibby
05-12-2014, 12:16 PM
I'm sure Leeann Dempster will be delighted to read your opinion.

I think we both know I'm not talking about Leeann Dempster. :-)

Peevemor
05-12-2014, 12:19 PM
I think we both know I'm not talking about Leeann Dempster. :-)

Should we not be debating the present and the future, instead of what happened in the past? Mistakes that were made have already been or are being addressed.

Ozyhibby
05-12-2014, 12:30 PM
Should we not be debating the present and the future, instead of what happened in the past? Mistakes that were made have already been or are being addressed.

Have they been addressed? You don't think the board should have been overhauled?
Right now, in the present, thousands of Hibs fans are staying away from Easter road.
A lot of them are saying they will not return until Rod Petrie is gone. That's the present.
If these fans don't return, then we are going to see ever decreasing playing budgets.

Peevemor
05-12-2014, 12:34 PM
Have they been addressed? You don't think the board should have been overhauled?
Right now, in the present, thousands of Hibs fans are staying away from Easter road.
A lot of them are saying they will not return until Rod Petrie is gone. That's the present.
If these fans don't return, then we are going to see ever decreasing playing budgets.

OK, there may be some (but not thousands IMO) that are staying away due to RP's continued presence. For the rest, what will any new owner do to bring back the fans?

Caversham Green
05-12-2014, 12:35 PM
We know the people running Hibs don't know what they are doing, you only think that the people running BuyHibs do t know what they are doing.
It's hard to see how anyone could make a worse job of running Hibs. I doubt the club have ever been lower in the Scottish league than they have been this season. If they have, then it has been a long time ago. Nobody previously in charge of Hibs has been as bad at managing team affairs.

I deliberately made no reference to either the people running Hibs or the the people running BuyHibs. I asked the question because the point raised by Phil D Rolls was a valid one. Your response was as always to point out how badly you think the club is being run now. If we are going to have change it must be for the better, and yes, Hibs could have been run a lot worse than they have been. Not so long ago we had people on here calling for the club to go further into debt so that we could pay better wages, now the same people are treating the current, perfectly manageable debt as if it was a cardinal sin. Likewise, if the fans had been in charge when Pat Fenlon left they would undoubtedly have appointed Butcher to replace him. And of course the word on here was that Butcher was no good without Malpas and Marsella. Alan Stubbs? Cheap option.

For the record I think the people running Hibs now - Leeann Dempster, George Craig and Alan Stubbs do know what they're doing, BuyHibs have yet to convince me that they do.

If the fans are going to dig deeper into their pockets to bring about a change, it's essential that Phil's question is answered convincingly - so far the signs are not good.

grunt
05-12-2014, 12:36 PM
We know the people running Hibs don't know what they are doing


I think we both know I'm not talking about Leeann Dempster. :-)Leeann Dempster is the Chief Executive of the Club, so she is absolutely the person running Hibs. This is an example of the sort of mixed up thinking which I have been criticising BuyHibs for, and you have just come out with it again.

Caversham Green
05-12-2014, 12:37 PM
I think that they launched too early. I don't know whether they felt they needed to launch now to keep up the momentum from Petrie Out and the surveys or whether they heard that the club were going to let people know their own plans and wanted to get in first, but they seem to have launched without a fully formed plan in place which has led to them struggling to convince people.

I would like to see them meet with the board and see if there isn't some crossover in their plans where they can work together to achieve what they want to achieve as I think there is some merit in fan ownership and these guys seem passionate about achieving it, as well as LD having a history of helping fans gain some ownership of a football club.

My thoughts exactly.

Ozyhibby
05-12-2014, 12:40 PM
Leeann Dempster is the Chief Executive of the Club, so she is absolutely the person running Hibs. This is an example of the sort of mixed up thinking which I have been criticising BuyHibs for, and you have just come out with it again.

Leeann Dempster answers to Rod Petrie.

blackpoolhibs
05-12-2014, 12:45 PM
It's almost like it's your job to attack this proposal. You appear to be setting a new benchmark in negativity.
This is a group of Hibs fans trying to find a new way forward for the club which has been appallingly run.
While the status quo may work for you, or vice versa, it is not working for a lot of Hibs fans.
They deserve a fair hearing.

I want a new owner, there's nothing i'd like more. Yet even now after numerous meetings and numerous questions asked i'm still no nearer knowing just who the investors are, what their plans are and how much they have. I also don't know how much the fans will need to put in either.

Until i know who they are, how much they are willing to put in, how the hell do they expect me to put my name and more importantly my money in with them?

Beefster
05-12-2014, 12:47 PM
Leeann Dempster answers to Rod Petrie.

The vast majority of CEOs report to a Board. Are you suggesting that they don't run their organisations either?

Peevemor
05-12-2014, 12:48 PM
Leeann Dempster answers to Rod Petrie.

Leeann Dempster has said many times that she's her own person and has total control of the day to day running of the club. Since her appointment she's changed almost every aspect of how the club is run and is now in the process of putting together the election of 2 fan representatives to the board.

Tell us what you know about the inner workings of ER that we don't. If you can't, then please change the record.

Ozyhibby
05-12-2014, 12:55 PM
Let's be clear here, so far I think Leeann Dempster is doing a good job.
Not perfect but good.
Allowing Butcher to go on holiday before sacking him and cutting the player budget while keeping premier league prices for this season were two major decisions I think she got wrong. She has got many other decisions right.
Her position is not under threat by the fans having a stake in the club.

Ozyhibby
05-12-2014, 12:59 PM
I want a new owner, there's nothing i'd like more. Yet even now after numerous meetings and numerous questions asked i'm still no nearer knowing just who the investors are, what their plans are and how much they have. I also don't know how much the fans will need to put in either.

Until i know who they are, how much they are willing to put in, how the hell do they expect me to put my name and more importantly my money in with them?

All fair points which I'm sure will be answered in good time.
I don't know what the current owners plans for the club after 20+ years are either, so I'm giving BuyHibs a bit of time to answer.

Peevemor
05-12-2014, 01:00 PM
Let's be clear here, so far I think Leeann Dempster is doing a good job.
Not perfect but good.
Allowing Butcher to go on holiday before sacking him

Leeann Dempster was still a Motherwell employee when Butcher went on holiday.



and cutting the player budget while keeping premier league prices for this season were two major decisions I think she got wrong. She has got many other decisions right.
Her position is not under threat by the fans having a stake in the club.

Had the prices been cut, the player budget would have been cut even more. What do you think she should have done (bearing in mind that the club has already budgeted to run at a loss this season)?

Andy74
05-12-2014, 01:01 PM
Let's be clear here, so far I think Leeann Dempster is doing a good job.
Not perfect but good.
Allowing Butcher to go on holiday before sacking him and cutting the player budget while keeping premier league prices for this season were two major decisions I think she got wrong. She has got many other decisions right.
Her position is not under threat by the fans having a stake in the club.

I'm not sure you know about the budget, but anyway, if what you say is true about the executive not changing what is the point of a new owner?

It is a fairly fundamental point that hasn't been answered. What would I get for my money?

Ozyhibby
05-12-2014, 01:02 PM
The vast majority of CEOs report to a Board. Are you suggesting that they don't run their organisations either?

They run their organisations in line with the wishes of the board. In our case, the very presence of some of the members of the board harms the club by keeping fans away.

Peevemor
05-12-2014, 01:02 PM
All fair points which I'm sure will be answered in good time.
I don't know what the current owners plans for the club after 20+ years are either, so I'm giving BuyHibs a bit of time to answer.

But you won't give Leeann Dempster time to sort things out?

bingo70
05-12-2014, 01:02 PM
Leeann Dempster was still a Motherwell employee when Butcher went on holiday.




Had the prices been cut, the player budget would have been cut even more. What do you think she should have done (bearing in mind that the club has already budgeted to run at a loss this season)?

She was at the meetings the day before she went on holiday.

Technically speaking she probably couldn't have fired him but I think everyone knows she could have made the decision then.

Caversham Green
05-12-2014, 01:03 PM
Let's be clear here, so far I think Leeann Dempster is doing a good job.
Not perfect but good.
Allowing Butcher to go on holiday before sacking him and cutting the player budget while keeping premier league prices for this season were two major decisions I think she got wrong. She has got many other decisions right.
Her position is not under threat by the fans having a stake in the club.

If she answers to Petrie then surely it's him that's doing the good job.

More seriously, it's been said that Her job, along with those of Craig and Stubbs, is not under threat, so what is going to change? Are the fans being asked to pledge £240 a year just to remove Rod Petrie from his non-executive position?

Ozyhibby
05-12-2014, 01:04 PM
I'm not sure you know about the budget, but anyway, if what you say is true about the executive not changing what is the point of a new owner?

It is a fairly fundamental point that hasn't been answered. What would I get for my money?

Leeann Dempster told us that the playing budget would be lower this year as we are in the championship.

Andy74
05-12-2014, 01:07 PM
They run their organisations in line with the wishes of the board. In our case, the very presence of some of the members of the board harms the club by keeping fans away.

The executive are responsible for the running of and the direction of the company, the board are there to challenge and have oversight on behalf of the shareholders. They should be reviewing and commenting on strategy but they should not be leading on and creating it.

Peevemor
05-12-2014, 01:07 PM
She was at the meetings the day before she went on holiday.

Technically speaking she probably couldn't have fired him but I think everyone knows she could have made the decision then.

Do you not think the financial implications of sacking Butcher and his staff would require looking into before the decision was made? There was also a suggestion that LD gave Butcher time to see if he was willing to buy into her vision of things.

Andy74
05-12-2014, 01:08 PM
Leeann Dempster told us that the playing budget would be lower this year as we are in the championship.

Okay, haven't heard her say that, but anyway, the important point about what's the point in changing the owner if Leeann and co are still there.....

Ozyhibby
05-12-2014, 01:08 PM
If she answers to Petrie then surely it's him that's doing the good job.

More seriously, it's been said that Her job, along with those of Craig and Stubbs, is not under threat, so what is going to change? Are the fans being asked to pledge £240 a year just to remove Rod Petrie from his non-executive position?

Perhaps with new owners some of the stay away fans can be brought back to Easter road? Perhaps the club just needs a new energy about it?
If these fans can be brought back then the playing budget can be increased and the team improved.
Do you think Leeann, George and Alan would be able to do a better job with a bigger budget?

Peevemor
05-12-2014, 01:10 PM
Perhaps with new owners some of the stay away fans can be brought back to Easter road? Perhaps the club just needs a new energy about it?
If these fans can be brought back then the playing budget can be increased and the team improved.
Do you think Leeann, George and Alan would be able to do a better job with a bigger budget?

Perhaps if we change owner for change's sake then thing's will be brilliant, or perhaps we'll end up in the keech. :dunno:

Andy74
05-12-2014, 01:11 PM
Perhaps with new owners some of the stay away fans can be brought back to Easter road? Perhaps the club just needs a new energy about it?
If these fans can be brought back then the playing budget can be increased and the team improved.
Do you think Leeann, George and Alan would be able to do a better job with a bigger budget?

What is it about the OWNER that is keeping lots of fans away from Easter Road? There have been lots of posts commenting on the difference between owner, board, executive etc - do you follow the arguments?

Is the proposal really that changing the owner in itself will bring fans back to the stadium?

Peevemor
05-12-2014, 01:15 PM
What is it about the OWNER that is keeping lots of fans away from Easter Road? There have been lots of posts commenting on the difference between owner, board, executive etc - do you follow the arguments?

Is the proposal really that changing the owner in itself will bring fans back to the stadium?

Yup. Count me in! :Ummm: