The reality of this season

[007 Mickey Weir]

Well we all know we could be better and have more points but we haven't. A mixture of poor performances and bad luck with injuries have resulted in the gap between us and them.

So unless things dramatically change it looks like Hearts will get promoted, Rangers 2nd, Hibs 3rd and QOS 4th. We can beat QOS over 2 legs. Rangers would be tough but I think possible.

The reality of our luck in derbies is that we wouldn't beat Hearts over 2 legs.

So the reality is that if we don't win the league I think it's better for us if we don't meet them in a play off.

It was always going to be a huge ask to go up first time. This is a result of a terrible last few seasons. But we will be a much stronger force next season and can easily win the league.

It's a sad place to be but we will come out of this either this year or the next.

GGTTH

[SneakersO'Toole]

The reality is depressing and a far cry from what the club told us would be the ambition at the start of the season.

16pts off the pace and we are not even into Decemeber. Dismal!

[Keith_M]

..... We can beat QOS over 2 legs.


We've played them twice: Won 0; Drew 1; Lost 1.

[bingo70]

We'll finish 3rd but I'm still pretty confident the rangers will catch hearts. For all the new Huns have been poor they're no far behind hearts and I still fancy hearts to go through a sticky patch at some point.

[lord bunberry]

We'll finish 3rd but I'm still pretty confident the rangers will catch hearts. For all the new Huns have been poor they're no far behind hearts and I still fancy hearts to go through a sticky patch at some point.

The question is do we want the rangers to catch them? I would love nothing more than to consign that mob to another season in the lower leagues, but i'm not sure if our players have got the bottle for it.

[Spike Mandela]

I think the truth of the matter is whist we have seen a little improvement in the team's play this is, and always has been, a two season project.

This team isn't good enough at the moment to get promoted either directly or via the play offs. Sure we might make the playoffs but to win 3 double headers which may include Rangers or Hearts and a Premier league side seems far fetched to me considering the depth of squad we have and erratic talents in the squad.

It would take a monumental January window to change that imo.

[Carheenlea]

We'll finish 3rd but I'm still pretty confident the rangers will catch hearts. For all the new Huns have been poor they're no far behind hearts and I still fancy hearts to go through a sticky patch at some point.

At the East Mains visit the other week Alan Stubbs felt that Rangers would win the league and that as long as we are in the play off spot, be that 2nd, 3rd or 4th he would fancy us to win against anybody by that time.

[Steve20]

There would need to be a dramatic improvement for us to win three playoff matches. Hearts score for fun and we can't even put one past QOS over two games.

[Carheenlea]

There would need to be a dramatic improvement for us to win three playoff matches. Hearts score for fun and we can't even put one past QOS over two games.

There would that, but hopefully we will have a full compliment of attacking options open to us by that time.

[Hibby Bairn]

Jeez. Even our supporters have gone soft. Expectations lowered.

We are and always have been one of the top 4 sides in the country. Now we think being in the Championship (old 1st division and even older second division) is a 2 year project.

FFS we are Hibs. A top tier club. We accept with apathy draws against Queen of the South, Dumbarton, Raith Rovers and defeats by Falkirk or last minute winners v Cowdenbeath.

What a sorry and sad state of affairs.

[Ronniekirk]

I think the truth of the matter is whist we have seen a little improvement in the team's play this is, and always has been, a two season project.

This team isn't good enough at the moment to get promoted either directly or via the play offs. Sure we might make the playoffs but to win 3 double headers which may include Rangers or Hearts and a Premier league side seems far fetched to me considering the depth of squad we have and erratic talents in the squad.

It would take a monumental January window to change that imo.

I think you are spot on and mentioned lack of depth of squad after yesterday's game .We would need our best 11 at the end of season to not be suspended or injured and to have energy to play 6 good games back to back Its abig ask imo and too many variables to get in way We would need to be comfortably In third so we could maybe rest some players but then you want momentum of going into play offs with players on form .

To date we aren't in third position yet but despite yesterday's set back that will come .

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

Again it is the question about where we want to be, over where we actually are. I did not think that we would win the league this season. Not what I want, but there you go. Our best option in the play offs, is if we have to play The Rangers.

[Yuillsy]

There would need to be a dramatic improvement for us to win three playoff matches. Hearts score for fun and we can't even put one past QOS over two games.

They haven't scored for fun against us though. 3 goals in 2 matches, 1 penalty and 2 wonder strikes. If we meet them in the play-offs so be it.
Like you say we do need massive improvement but hopefully by May we'll have less injury problems and maybe even some new signings in January.

[emerald green]

I think the truth of the matter is whist we have seen a little improvement in the team's play this is, and always has been, a two season project.

This team isn't good enough at the moment to get promoted either directly or via the play offs. Sure we might make the playoffs but to win 3 double headers which may include Rangers or Hearts and a Premier league side seems far fetched to me considering the depth of squad we have and erratic talents in the squad.

It would take a monumental January window to change that imo.

:agree: Into the bargain, who are Hibs likely to be able to bring in at the January window who is/are likely to make a huge difference, especially if our league position at that time is signalling potentially another year in the Championship?

There have been clear improvements since AS took over from Butcher, but not enough and not quickly enough, for which AS and his coaching team are not in any way to blame. Far too much damage on the playing side was allowed to happen long before AS took over, and he has a huge task turning things around and getting Hibs promoted.

I really do hope Hibs make me eat my words, but this is just how I see the situation at the moment.

[Sir David Gray]

The main reason why we're so far behind Hearts is because they're on such an unbelievable run of form.

I don't think anyone thought they would have only dropped 4 points having played more than a third of the season.

Given our poor start to the season and mediocre home form, we would probably still be some way behind them anyway but being 16 points behind at this stage is mainly down to them rather than us.

I expect us to finish in the top four and therefore in the play offs but I don't see us getting promoted. We don't have a strong enough squad. That was evident yesterday when a lot of first team players were unavailable.

[Bobby's Cinema]

The main reason why we're so far behind Hearts is because they're on such an unbelievable run of form.

I don't think anyone thought they would have only dropped 4 points having played more than a third of the season.

Given our poor start to the season and mediocre home form, we would probably still be some way behind them anyway but being 16 points behind at this stage is mainly down to them rather than us.

I expect us to finish in the top four and therefore in the play offs but I don't see us getting promoted. We don't have a strong enough squad. That was evident yesterday when a lot of first team players were unavailable.
Pointless looking at things that way and I disagree. Our own form, the thing we can effect hasn't been good enough. That's the reason we are fourth, not because of Hearts. We should be looking to win every game, as they do

[Sir David Gray]

Pointless looking at things that way and I disagree. Our own form, the thing we can effect hasn't been good enough. That's the reason we are fourth, not because of Hearts. We should be looking to win every game, as they do

I'm talking about how people are complaining that we are so many points behind them by mid-November.

I expect us to be third this season. On that basis, we're almost there at the moment.

I certainly didn't expect Hearts to be unbeaten after the first three months of the season, having won 11 and drawn 2 of their first 13 matches. If they and Sevco were maybe only seven or eight points ahead of us right now, I don't think we would be seeing a lot of these complaints.

I think it's the fact that Hearts are doing so well and are 16 points clear of us that people are getting a bit uptight.

[PeeJay]

I think the truth of the matter is whist we have seen a little improvement in the team's play this is, and always has been, a two season project.

This team isn't good enough at the moment to get promoted either directly or via the play offs. Sure we might make the playoffs but to win 3 double headers which may include Rangers or Hearts and a Premier league side seems far fetched to me considering the depth of squad we have and erratic talents in the squad.

It would take a monumental January window to change that imo.

This mind set is the death knell of this club ...

[Lago]

Wishful thinking on Stubbs part if he thinks hibs will be promoted this season, they are not good enough and it wont happen.

[Jim44]

I can't make any sense of the repeated notion that the Jambos will go through a sticky spell sooner rather than later. Why? Is it not more accurate to say we want them to go through a sticky spell? Whether we like it or not, The reality is that they are the strongest and most consistent team by far in a league of mediocrity. They will win the league at a canter and Sevco will bully their way through the playoffs. Stubbs has to accept this and make it his goal to build a team to win promotion in top place next season.

[SJNB Hibby]

The question is do we want the rangers to catch them? I would love nothing more than to consign that mob to another season in the lower leagues, but i'm not sure if our players have got the bottle for it.

If we play Hearts in the play-offs it means we would have already won one play-off round(vs QOTS or RR) and they will have failed to win the League. Momentum would be with us, for all thats worth given our recent history

[Wilson]

I can't make any sense of the repeated notion that the Jambos will go through a sticky spell sooner rather than later. Why? Is it not more accurate to say we want them to go through a sticky spell? Whether we like it or not, The reality is that they are the strongest and most consistent team by far in a league of mediocrity. They will win the league at a canter and Sevco will bully their way through the playoffs. Stubbs has to accept this and make it his goal to build a team to win promotion in top place next season.

We are short on quality and lack it in depth. If we had the play-offs now we'd likely play some very competitive matches but fall just short. I base that on our falling just short against Dundee Utd - a decent side on their day. We need to add more quality and I'd back Stubbs and all to do it.

Too soon to be throwing in the towel.

[Ozyhibby]

Reality is that are fans are adapting to championship mediocrity just as quick as our players.
Next season we will have people on here talking about cementing our place in the league before maybe making a push the season after next and how could we be expected to go up with teams like St. Mirren in the league.
Depressing right enough.

[Wilson]

Reality is that are fans are adapting to championship mediocrity just as quick as our players.
Next season we will have people on here talking about cementing our place in the league before maybe making a push the season after next and how could we be expected to go up with teams like St. Mirren in the league.
Depressing right enough.

Well I wouldn't moan about adapting to mediocrity on one hand and then accepting that we'll be struggling in this division next season on the other. It's contradictory. A club like Hibs should get out this season surely? Even if it takes the play-offs.

The question is where are we short and how do we address that between now and the play-offs.

[21.05.2016]

The disaster of last season was never going to be a quick fix, it was far too deep a mess. We are kidding ourselves on if we think that things can be turned around in just a few months. Big changes have taken place since we went down, a new CEO taking charge of the running of the club who has already instilled very positive changes IMO, a new manager and a clear out of last seasons impostors on the park.

There is a massive improvement in the team, we are playing a much better style of football and we have far more heart and desire in the team than we did last season. We haven't always gotten the right results (sometimes very unlucky) and there is still a lot to improvements to be made but I feel we are heading in the right direction.

You wanted "the reality" - well there it is, the mess is not a quick fix and theres no magic wand that can sorted everything in a heart beat. The changes are happening but to build ourselves back up to where we should be is going to take patience.

[AndyM_1875]

At the East Mains visit the other week Alan Stubbs felt that Rangers would win the league and that as long as we are in the play off spot, be that 2nd, 3rd or 4th he would fancy us to win against anybody by that time.

And he's right. Rangers will overtake Hearts by late January/February and go on to take the title simply because they have the biggest squad.

However Alan Stubbs should know that for the play offs to be truly Hibs esq we will defeat QOS & then Hearts before playing St Mirren and losing to them on penalties .:rolleyes:

[familyman]

Well we all know we could be better and have more points but we haven't. A mixture of poor performances and bad luck with injuries have resulted in the gap between us and them.

So unless things dramatically change it looks like Hearts will get promoted, Rangers 2nd, Hibs 3rd and QOS 4th. We can beat QOS over 2 legs. Rangers would be tough but I think possible.

The reality of our luck in derbies is that we wouldn't beat Hearts over 2 legs.

So the reality is that if we don't win the league I think it's better for us if we don't meet them in a play off.

It was always going to be a huge ask to go up first time. This is a result of a terrible last few seasons. But we will be a much stronger force next season and can easily win the league.

It's a sad place to be but we will come out of this either this year or the next.

GGTTH
To be so far behind and it is not even December is shocking and there is NO excuse for not hitting the ground running, a complete lack of NEW funding to boost the team ,letting our best goalkeeper in years go and preferring to improve other areas off the park(for long term benefit) is the reason, the delay in new manager etc is understandably a factor but there was still no excuse for not raising the bar and getting more funds in temporarily this year to get us straight back up ,the economic cost of not doing so does not bear thinking about ...we have settled again for second-best and just a hope for the best in play offs..poor expectations and we have to live with it..shocking.sooner the fans buy the club the better.Positive words from Hibs board and staff need positive action too.January is our last opportunity to push the boat out!! Come on Hibs Board sort it.

[Keith_M]

Jeez. Even our supporters have gone soft. Expectations lowered.

We are and always have been one of the top 4 sides in the country. Now we think being in the Championship (old 1st division and even older second division) is a 2 year project

......

What a sorry and sad state of affairs.


Any other season I would agree with you but the reality is that the competition, Rangers and Hearts, would not normally be an issue.

We have dropped to where we are now through poor management & poor players. Accepting that we are in this state and that it may take a little longer to get back up is not 'going soft'. It is facing up to reality.

We are no longer a big Club. It's going to take a lot of hard work to get back there (and is not guaranteed). Whingeing on the sidelines isn't going to help with that.

[greenlex]

To be so far behind and it is not even December is shocking and there is NO excuse for not hitting the ground running, a complete lack of NEW funding to boost the team ,letting our best goalkeeper in years go and preferring to improve other areas off the park(for long term benefit) is the reason, the delay in new manager etc is understandably a factor but there was still no excuse for not raising the bar and getting more funds in temporarily this year to get us straight back up ,the economic cost of not doing so does not bear thinking about ...we have settled again for second-best and just a hope for the best in play offs..poor expectations and we have to live with it..shocking.sooner the fans buy the club the better.Positive words from Hibs board and staff need positive action too.January is our last opportunity to push the boat out!! Come on Hibs Board sort it.
There is no chance the boat will be pushed out in January. We will make the play offs and take itfrom there. If this squad fail then the boat will be pushed out next season and we will winthe league and guarantee promotion. We won't gamble on essentially a two legged okay off against either Hearts or Rangers.(should we even get past the first two kegged playoff) even after that there still another two kegged affair against second bottom of the Premiership. Add in to that all the variables of a 90 min game of fitba cash we don't have won't be spent chasing it this season.

[southsider]

I am totally pig-sick as to where our board have left our Football Club. Going to ER these days is the worst I have ever felt as a Hibs fan. Removing STF and RP is, in my opinion, the only answer if we are to return to former glories. Even if they were few and far between. We have went backwards and nobody at ER seems to care. We all have to support BuyHibs if they truly mean what they say.

[Peevemor]

There is no chance the boat will be pushed out in January. We will make the play offs and take itfrom there. If this squad fail then the boat will be pushed out next season and we will winthe league and guarantee promotion. We won't gamble on essentially a two legged okay off against either Hearts or Rangers.(should we even get past the first two kegged playoff) even after that there still another two kegged affair against second bottom of the Premiership. Add I to that all the variables of a 90 min game of fitba cash we don't have won't be spent cashing it this season.

That's how I see it too. :agree:

[sesoim]

Reality is that are fans are adapting to championship mediocrity just as quick as our players.
Next season we will have people on here talking about cementing our place in the league before maybe making a push the season after next and how could we be expected to go up with teams like St. Mirren in the league.
Depressing right enough.


:agree: The way things are looking we really will need Gordon Strachan to pull us a few strings to get us back up!

[sesoim]

I am totally pig-sick as to where our board have left our Football Club. Going to ER these days is the worst I have ever felt as a Hibs fan. Removing STF and RP is, in my opinion, the only answer if we are to return to former glories. Even if they were few and far between. We have went backwards and nobody at ER seems to care. We all have to support BuyHibs if they truly mean what they say.


:agree: It's so annoying that we have got lots of fans out there, yet nobody with any real money ever seems to want to buy us. I know it's not the greatest example, but why did Romanov buy Hearts when they were twenty odd million in debt, yet ignored us? Does STF want a huge price for us? A few years ago we were probably valued about the £15m mark, but people will look at how cheaply Hearts went for in the summer and think we should only cost a couple of million now, and that is probably complicating the issue.

[Peevemor]

:agree: It's so annoying that we have got lots of fans out there, yet nobody with any real money ever seems to want to buy us. I know it's not the greatest example, but why did Romanov buy Hearts when they were twenty odd million in debt, yet ignored us? Does STF want a huge price for us? A few years ago we were probably valued about the £15m mark, but people will look at how cheaply Hearts went for in the summer and think we should only cost a couple of million now, and that is probably complicating the issue.



Vladimir Romanov had shown interest in investing in Scottish football (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Football_in_Scotland) for some time because he wanted to see whether Lithuanian footballers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Football_in_Lithuania) could prosper abroad.[19] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladimir_Romanov#cite_note-talks-19)Scottish football clubs were particularly ripe for takeover due to their weak finances and corporate structures.[20] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladimir_Romanov#cite_note-20) He made approaches to Dundee United (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dundee_United_F.C.),[4] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladimir_Romanov#cite_note-other_clubs-4) Dundee (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dundee_F.C.)[4] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladimir_Romanov#cite_note-other_clubs-4) and Dunfermline (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunfermline_Athletic_F.C.),[4] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladimir_Romanov#cite_note-other_clubs-4) but these were all rejected.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladimir_Romanov

[jacomo]

That's how I see it too. :agree:

Staying in this division for another season is the biggest gamble the club can make. AS might well get tempted away, income and attendance will at best stay flat or fall further away, and an unknown number of fans will turn their backs on going to ER for good.

Despite our slow start we aren't out of it yet. On our day we are the best footballing side in the division - 3 or 4 good signings in Jan (with some departures) and we can build the momentum needed to at least go into the play offs with real confidence.

You say RP ain't influencing things anymore and yet the same, reactive mind set seems to exist. From a financial perspective alone - never mind a footballing one - Hibs need to get out of this division at the first attempt or we will continue to drift.

I want the entire club to be 100% focused on getting us back up, and nothing else. Every other issue is of secondary importance. I'd have thought LD would understand that, but I don't see it yet.

[blackpoolhibs]

Staying in this division for another season is the biggest gamble the club can make. AS might well get tempted away, income and attendance will at best stay flat or fall further away, and an unknown number of fans will turn their backs on going to ER for good.

Despite our slow start we aren't out of it yet. On our day we are the best footballing side in the division - 3 or 4 good signings in Jan (with some departures) and we can build the momentum needed to at least go into the play offs with real confidence.

You say RP ain't influencing things anymore and yet the same, reactive mind set seems to exist. From a financial perspective alone - never mind a footballing one - Hibs need to get out of this division at the first attempt or we will continue to drift.

I want the entire club to be 100% focused on getting us back up, and nothing else. Every other issue is of secondary importance. I'd have thought LD would understand that, but I don't see it yet.

I think that is the only hope i have we might make a go at getting up this season. Then i remember every other transfer window in the past, and my hope fades.

[Peevemor]

Staying in this division for another season is the biggest gamble the club can make. AS might well get tempted away, income and attendance will at best stay flat or fall further away, and an unknown number of fans will turn their backs on going to ER for good.

Despite our slow start we aren't out of it yet. On our day we are the best footballing side in the division - 3 or 4 good signings in Jan (with some departures) and we can build the momentum needed to at least go into the play offs with real confidence.

You say RP ain't influencing things anymore and yet the same, reactive mind set seems to exist. From a financial perspective alone - never mind a footballing one - Hibs need to get out of this division at the first attempt or we will continue to drift.

I want the entire club to be 100% focused on getting us back up, and nothing else. Every other issue is of secondary importance. I'd have thought LD would understand that, but I don't see it yet.

What a piece of nonsense! LD has confirmed that the club have budgeted to run at a loss this season - ie. STF's putting money in. What are they meant to do? Match the wages paid by the huns?

[flash]

Reality is that are fans are adapting to championship mediocrity just as quick as our players.
Next season we will have people on here talking about cementing our place in the league before maybe making a push the season after next and how could we be expected to go up with teams like St. Mirren in the league.
Depressing right enough.

Nowhere near as depressing as the amount of posters revelling in our struggles this season.

[jacomo]

What a piece of nonsense! LD has confirmed that the club have budgeted to run at a loss this season - ie. STF's putting money in. What are they meant to do? Match the wages paid by the huns?

Thanks for the constructive reply :rolleyes:

Hearts out spending Rangers are they?

[blackpoolhibs]

Nowhere near as depressing as the amount of posters revelling in our struggles this season.

Name one Hibs fan who's doing this. :confused::confused:

[Peevemor]

Thanks for the constructive reply :rolleyes:

Hearts out spending Rangers are they?

I don't think anyone expected Hearts to be doing so well at this stage. The last time we were in the second tier Falkirk were our nearest rivals in terms of size. Chucking loads of money at the team to win the league wasn't really a gamble and it was much preparation for our return to the SPL as anything else. This summer, everyone viewed the Huns as favourites to win the league (and automatic promotion) due to the money they spend if nothing else.

Imagine if Hibs went for broke, racked up another £4-5m of debt this season and failed to win promotion? Where would that have left us for next season?

It'd be better if some people thought about the reality of our situation before coming out with the "stinks of Petrie" stuff.

[blackpoolhibs]

I don't think anyone expected Hearts to be doing so well at this stage. The last time we were in the second tier Falkirk were our nearest rivals in terms of size. Chucking loads of money at the team to win the league wasn't really a gamble and it was much preparation for our return to the SPL as anything else. This summer, everyone viewed the Huns as favourites to win the league (and automatic promotion) due to the money they spend if nothing else.

Imagine if Hibs went for broke, racked up another £4-5m of debt this season and failed to win promotion? Where would that have left us for next season?

It'd be better if some people thought about the reality of our situation before coming out with the "stinks of Petrie" stuff.

How much have QOS thrown at it to challenge us for that coveted 4th place spot, or Raith Rovers who are 1 point behind us?

Nobody has mentioned that we should have thrown £4 or £5 million at it apart from you, but i did expect us to challenge alongside the bigot brothers, i did not expect us to not even bother.

[Peevemor]

How much have QOS thrown at it to challenge us for that coveted 4th place spot, or Raith Rovers who are 1 point behind us?

Nobody has mentioned that we should have thrown £4 or £5 million at it apart from you, but i did expect us to challenge alongside the bigot brothers, i did not expect us to not even bother.

Aye right - because nobody's bothered? :rolleyes:

[Keith_M]

What a piece of nonsense! LD has confirmed that the club have budgeted to run at a loss this season - ie. STF's putting money in.........


Does it mean that?

Could it not just mean that we're going to have increased debt that the Club will have to pay off at a future date?

:dunno:

[blackpoolhibs]

Aye right - because nobody's bothered? :rolleyes:

We never had any intention of making a challenge this season, it's becoming more and more obvious as the weeks go on.

We will probably fail in the play offs and there will be folk like yourself calling it another glorious failure, salivating about just how unlucky we were and telling anyone who will listen just how well we progressed and how next season will be much better.

[Waxy]

Hearts wont be allowed to win the league. Dodgy penalties this weekend.

[Peevemor]

Does it mean that?

Could it not just mean that we're going to have increased debt that the Club will have to pay off at a future date?

:dunno:

In the past this sort of thing has been covered by loans from the parent company. Where it gets this money from is irrelevant. For every £1m of debt, STF's share is worth approx. £900k less (on paper at any case).

[Keith_M]

In the past this sort of thing has been covered by loans from the parent company. Where it gets this money from is irrelevant. For every £1m of debt, STF's share is worth approx. £900k less (on paper at any case).


Our debt doesn't all get paid off by STF. We have decreased our debt massively by sales in the past.

STF is not, and shouldn't have to be, our benefactor at every turn.

[blackpoolhibs]

This hearts rangers bollox has no interest to me, i don't care which one finishes top or not. What i am bothered about is how far we are from both of them.

[Peevemor]

We never had any intention of making a challenge this season, it's becoming more and more obvious as the weeks go on.

Pish! The team are going out to win as many points as possible. We're unbeaten in how many matches? Is RP behind our injury problems? Did RP pull the Sparky deal at the last minute?


We will probably fail in the play offs and there will be folk like yourself calling it another glorious failure, salivating about just how unlucky we were and telling anyone who will listen just how well we progressed and how next season will be much better.

And there'll be folk like yourself whose negativity toward all things Hibs has taken on epic proportions. No matter what happens you're there with your wee digs about what's happened in the past seven years - whilst totally ignoring the initiatives currently being taken to turn things around. It'd be funny if it wasn't so pathetic.

[Peevemor]

Our debt doesn't all get paid off by STF. We have decreased our debt massively by sales in the past.

STF is not, and shouldn't have to be, our benefactor at every turn.

The reality is that, at this point in time, he is.

[Gatecrasher]

I don't think the club planned for 2 years down IMO. In my opinion, There isn't enough money to spend that will allow us to compete with Hearts and Rangers who both had head starts on us. I reckon the club was in too much of a mess (Maybe more than we realise) by the previous regime and LD and AS are actually building from the ground up which has also hindered our chances. Some of the players we have at the club from last season are over rated and holding us back from making a proper promotion push.

[flash]

Name one Hibs fan who's doing this. :confused::confused:

You are for starters. I don't think you want us to struggle but you are in your element when we do.

[blackpoolhibs]

You are for starters. I don't think you want us to struggle but you are in your element when we do.

Just one word, Bollox.

[flash]

We never had any intention of making a challenge this season, it's becoming more and more obvious as the weeks go on.

We will probably fail in the play offs and there will be folk like yourself calling it another glorious failure, salivating about just how unlucky we were and telling anyone who will listen just how well we progressed and how next season will be much better.

This pish being a prime example. What's this "folk like yourself" supposed to mean?

[flash]

Just one word, Bollox.

Be interesting to compare your post count when things are going well.

[Mikey]

Just one word, Bollox.

Nae need :wink:

[Thecat23]

For what's it's worth I don't Hibs had any intention of pushing the boat out to win us this league. I fully believe they are happy to make the play off's and if we lose that, hope that both The Rangers and hearts are out this league to give us a bit of a chance to go up next year.

It may backfire as we have seen this season we struggle to beat teams at home. If we don't go up and we struggle again next year with the same folk running the club then I fear for our attendances even more and If we will come up anytime soon.

In a perfect world we make the play off's beat Hearts and make them feel as sick as 96 but that just won't happen!!

[jacomo]

I don't think anyone expected Hearts to be doing so well at this stage. The last time we were in the second tier Falkirk were our nearest rivals in terms of size. Chucking loads of money at the team to win the league wasn't really a gamble and it was much preparation for our return to the SPL as anything else. This summer, everyone viewed the Huns as favourites to win the league (and automatic promotion) due to the money they spend if nothing else.

Imagine if Hibs went for broke, racked up another £4-5m of debt this season and failed to win promotion? Where would that have left us for next season?

It'd be better if some people thought about the reality of our situation before coming out with the "stinks of Petrie" stuff.

Believe me, I have thought about the reality of our situation. Here it is:

We are currently in a League where some clubs aren't even full time pro. That's how precarious the finances are. It's clear by now that Hibs will never earn enough income in this Division to cover our cost base, leaving us with two alternatives - we either slash our break even point (probably by selling East Mains and making a load of people redundant) or we get out of this situation as quickly as possible, because the current scenario is not sustainable.

In short: if we don't get promoted this season, I think it is almost inevitable the club will lose more money next season. If we do, we get ourselves back on the path towards balancing the books.

There is no need to 'rack up' another £4-5m in debt. There is a need to look at the longer term health of this club and persuade the owner that the correct strategy right now is to back AS and give him the tools he needs this season.

Do you know what REALLY would be better? If some people (cough, you) properly engaged in debate with those who had different opinions rather than dismissing them as irrelevant or poorly thought through.

[blackpoolhibs]

Be interesting to compare your post count when things are going well.

You are right it would, and if you went back to when we last had a team punching its weight and qualifying for Europe through our LEAGUE POSITION, you'd find me defending the team to the hilt, but having to fight flack from posters on here because it was not good enough.

Give me a team that punches its weight, and i will be quite happy thank you very much.

[jacomo]

You are right it would, and if you went back to when we last had a team punching its weight and qualifying for Europe through our LEAGUE POSITION, you'd find me defending the team to the hilt, but having to fight flack from posters on here because it was not good enough.

Give me a team that punches its weight, and i will be quite happy thank you very much.

I remember you backing Yogi to the hilt, but then accepting it was time for him to go. Fair enough, and Yogi is currently operating at a higher level than us, which suggests that Hibs did not support him properly.

What are your views on Stubbs? Will you give him the same backing? My view is that he is the real deal - he knows how he wants the team to play, has a natural authority needed in any leader, and while he is still a rookie I think he is set for a successful managerial career.

[Peevemor]

Believe me, I have thought about the reality of our situation. Here it is:

We are currently in a League where some clubs aren't even full time pro. That's how precarious the finances are. It's clear by now that Hibs will never earn enough income in this Division to cover our cost base, leaving us with two alternatives - we either slash our break even point (probably by selling East Mains and making a load of people redundant) or we get out of this situation as quickly as possible, because the current scenario is not sustainable.

In short: if we don't get promoted this season, I think it is almost inevitable the club will lose more money next season. If we do, we get ourselves back on the path towards balancing the books.

There is no need to 'rack up' another £4-5m in debt. There is a need to look at the longer term health of this club and persuade the owner that the correct strategy right now is to back AS and give him the tools he needs this season.

Do you know what REALLY would be better? If some people (cough, you) properly engaged in debate with those who had different opinions rather than dismissing them as irrelevant or poorly thought through.

I'm sorry, but IMO your opinion is "poorly thought through".

What "tools" are you speaking about? If you're meaning a squad guaranteed to win the league, then surely we'd have to attract better players (thus offer more wages) than everyone else? How would this be possible without substantially increasing the debt?

You speak about "the longer term health of this club" - what do you mean? Do you mean all the stuff that' has been happening behind the scenes at ER/EM, or do you mean break the bank to guarantee promotion and a quick return to the SPL?

Do you honestly think it was in Hibs/LD's/STF's/RP's/whoever's power to guarantee winning the league?

[blackpoolhibs]

I remember you backing Yogi to the hilt, but then accepting it was time for him to go. Fair enough, and Yogi is currently operating at a higher level than us, which suggests that Hibs did not support him properly.

What are your views on Stubbs? Will you give him the same backing? My view is that he is the real deal - he knows how he wants the team to play, has a natural authority needed in any leader, and while he is still a rookie I think he is set for a successful managerial career.

I like Stubbs, he's a rookie but will do his best. Is he a good manager, who knows? Of course i back him, but i fear for him under the current owner.

If he fails to get us up this year, questions will be asked about his management. He speaks well, but i have heard every manager we've had speak well, apart from Yogi obviously. :wink:

Words mean sod all, this season while in this ****ty league it is ALL about results, and we are not getting enough of them.

[jacomo]

I'm sorry, but IMO your opinion is "poorly thought through".

What "tools" are you speaking about? If you're meaning a squad guaranteed to win the league, then surely we'd have to attract better players (thus offer more wages) than everyone else? How would this be possible without substantially increasing the debt?

You speak about "the longer term health of this club" - what do you mean? Do you mean all the stuff that' has been happening behind the scenes at ER/EM, or do you mean break the bank to guarantee promotion and a quick return to the SPL?

Do you honestly think it was in Hibs/LD's/STF's/RP's/whoever's power to guarantee winning the league?

There are no guarantees of anything. It is all about degrees of risk.

In my view, the risks involved in not getting promoted greatly outweigh the risks of strengthening the squad in January to give AS a better chance in the play offs.

I do not, and never have, advocate 'breaking the bank'. I happen to think there are a lot of positives with the team and we are not far away - but we are clearly short of options in a few key areas. Signing 3 or 4 players will not cost anything like £4-5m... probably closer to 10% of that. It's quite possible that at least one of our key rivals will strengthen in January too.

But - again - here is the key point: Hibs are currently losing money, and will continue to do so in this League. Rangers are losing money, Hearts are relying on a huge cash injection from FoH. Clubs with our overheads simply cannot survive long term on these revenues... and I think we are also benefiting from parachute payments this season which will drop away.

This is not sustainable, and the sooner we get out the better. Investing £300-500k in January will not just improve our prospects in the short term, it is the prudent and rational financial decision. The alternative is almost unthinkable.

[Keith_M]

The reality is that, at this point in time, he is.


You just avoided the point I made.

You are trying to make out that any debt incurred by Hibs is automatically paid for/taken on by STF. That is blatant nonsense and undermines your arguments.

[blackpoolhibs]

Does anyone else see the irony here, that some folk want STF because he is the lender of last resort, but some of the same folk don't want him to give us more money? :confused:

[Peevemor]

You just avoided the point I made.

You are trying to make out that any debt incurred by Hibs is automatically paid for/taken on by STF. That is blatant nonsense and undermines your arguments.

Why is it nonsense? :dunno:

For argument's sake, let's say Hibs net worth this summer was £10m. Ignoring all the company structure stuff, 90% of that ultimately belongs to STF - ie. £9m. If Hibs lose and therefore borrow £2m during this current season, then the net worth becomes £8m with STF's share being £7.2m.

It's effectively costing him money (on paper).

Of course, if the club makes a profit from selling players or cup runs, then of course he'll get money back, but at this point in time STF is financing the loss.

[Keith_M]

Why is it nonsense? :dunno:

For argument's sake, let's say Hibs net worth this summer was £10m. Ignoring all the company structure stuff, 90% of that ultimately belongs to STF - ie. £9m. If Hibs lose and therefore borrow £2m during this current season, then the net worth becomes £8m with STF's share being £7.2m.

It's effectively costing him money (on paper).

Of course, if the club makes a profit from selling players or cup runs, then of course he'll get money back, but at this point in time STF is financing the loss.


It's nonsense because STF does not pay ALL Hibs debt back himself, which is what you were implying.

Much of what STF has done for the Club is to be applauded but you're trying to paint him as something he's not.

[ekhibee]

Personally I don't think we have a strong enough squad at the moment, but our strongest 1st team is, on the basis of our last games against Sevco and Hearts, more than capable of being the best in the league. We were easily the better team in both those games; no fluke about it. Hearts couldn't do what they normally do and make excuses for injuries etc. They had they're strongest team playing, and I think we more than coped with them. Unfortunately, removing even 1 player from our strongest team and the performances seem to deteriorate. We simply don't have a strong enough squad, and unless we can match some of the better players in the 1st team with similar quality in Jan I can't see us challenging Hearts or Sevco for the title. Unlike some on here, I don't care if Sevco go up, they're an average team that's very poorly run. They'll be humiliated by 1 or 2 teams at least if they get promoted, and not just Celtic either. At the same time, if we don't go up it would be absolutely brilliant if Hearts didn't either. Just my opinion like.

[Peevemor]

It's nonsense because STF does not pay ALL Hibs debt back himself, which is what you were implying.

Much of what STF has done for the Club is to be applauded but you're trying to paint him as something he's not.

No I'm not - I'm simply stating the facts as I understand them. If Hibs are successful STF makes money (on paper). At the moment Hibs are costing him money.

[blackpoolhibs]

No I'm not - I'm simply stating the facts as I understand them. If Hibs are successful STF makes money (on paper). At the moment Hibs are costing him money.

Thats why he's the lender of last resort.

[Cropley10]

At the East Mains visit the other week Alan Stubbs felt that Rangers would win the league and that as long as we are in the play off spot, be that 2nd, 3rd or 4th he would fancy us to win against anybody by that time.

I think Stubbs is forgetting that The Rangers spend more than they earn every month and require asset secured loans to make payroll.

My money has always been on them going into admin this season. But only after a 16 team SPL has been agreed. Like it or not the game needs Hibs Hearts and Huns in the top league...


Sent from a phone

[jacomo]

I think Stubbs is forgetting that The Rangers spend more than they earn every month and require asset secured loans to make payroll.

My money has always been on them going into admin this season. But only after a 16 team SPL has been agreed. Like it or not the game needs Hibs Hearts and Huns in the top league...


Sent from a phone

I wouldn't bet on Rangers going into admin. Now that Ashley's involved they've got access to near-limitless amounts of cash, on whatever terms he thinks most appropriate.