Fan Buy Out Launched/BuyHibs/Q&A Answers

[NAE NOOKIE]

Would it not have been better for Buy Hibs to approach STF with their proposal and ask him to work with them before asking folk to make pledges. If they had been able to release a statement saying they were working with STF to a common goal which involved partial fan ownership I'm sure a lot of people would have jumped on board.

As it is we have two camps again with Buy Hibs looking for an input of cash, or at least pledges, as a starting point before opening negotiations, or at least to strengthen their hand during negotiations?

£10 a month would be a big commitment for me which I would be happy to find, if it was to support a firm offer of partial fan ownership and with a guarantee that every penny would go towards the betterment of Hibs. I would be very uncomfortable with any of that money going to a dividend for shareholders.

In short ..... why not approach STF for his support first. If he was on board with the idea and it was clear that if Buy Hibs get the required backing, including pledges, he will cooperate and back the process fully and help it move forward all the uncertainty would be removed at a stroke.

Why cant it work that way?

[CropleyWasGod]

I presumed it to mean that any big investors in the other 25 / 49 per cent could get a dividend of 10% of any profits made - which seems fair enough to me.
Really?

Would you be happy with STF/HFC taking a dividend?

[RSS Bot]

More... (http://www.hibernianfc.co.uk/news/4910)

[grunt]

Merely saying that none of us can know if there is any investors until it is revealed ala Hearts. They've told us that they don't have investors in place. On their website it says:


We don’t have investors in place but we will be launching discussions with various parties immediately

[DaveF]

I'm certainly up for change but it has to be the right change.

I'd like to know who the lender of last resort is that BuyHibs are having discussions with should STF need to be replaced.

I also read about 'the german model' as one to be adopted, though I think that model works pretty well due to large amounts of TV money landing at clubs in the German league. I read an article (dated March 2013) stating last placed team in the league walked away with 13m Euros. Loose change compared to the EPL but much more than we turnover and a significant driver in allowing that model to work I'd assume?

[DaveF]

Statement from the club on the official website:

"Chief Executive Leeann Dempster said today: “We are delighted to learn that Pat Stanton is leading and has launched a campaign to encourage supporters to invest in the ownership of the Club and fund its sporting ambitions.

"We look forward to having a positive conversation with BuyHibs so that we can understand the full details of their proposals and how they are intended to both keep the Club safe and take it forward.

“It is well known that the Board has been consulting widely with supporters and is fine tuning its strategy for the future of the Club.

"This will be presented to the existing 1,700 shareholders of the Club at the forthcoming AGM and shared with supporters and the wider Hibernian family.

“This is a genuinely exciting period of change at the Club and the Board has consulted widely and will continue to listen to all contributions to make sure that all supporters are involved.”

[Mikey]

Again, we'll merge this into the Buy Hibs thread once people have had a chance to see it.

[Hibernia&Alba]

Leeann Dempster has been here before of course with Motherwell's supporters trust and their buyout scheme.

[Islington Hibs]

Statement from the club on the official website:

"Chief Executive Leeann Dempster said today: “We are delighted to learn that Pat Stanton is leading and has launched a campaign to encourage supporters to invest in the ownership of the Club and fund its sporting ambitions.

"We look forward to having a positive conversation with BuyHibs so that we can understand the full details of their proposals and how they are intended to both keep the Club safe and take it forward.

“It is well known that the Board has been consulting widely with supporters and is fine tuning its strategy for the future of the Club.

"This will be presented to the existing 1,700 shareholders of the Club at the forthcoming AGM and shared with supporters and the wider Hibernian family.

“This is a genuinely exciting period of change at the Club and the Board has consulted widely and will continue to listen to all contributions to make sure that all supporters are involved.”

I half wonder (an I do not know) if this has the backing of STF. The BuyHibs website is quite professional, if vague, some playing icons are involved, the club have been encouraging supporter participation and now have put this statement out supporting it. The business people are not known to me, but nor was Petrie before he took over. The problem is I doubt the fans will back it in sufficient numbers. We will see. This is not the Hearts situation where their very existence was threatened. Will be interesting to see how it pans out.

[marinello59]

I half wonder (an I do not know) if this has the backing of STF. The BuyHibs website is quite professional, if vague, some playing icons are involved, the club have been encouraging supporter participation and now have put this statement out supporting it. The business people are not known to me, but nor was Petrie before he took over. The problem is I doubt the fans will back it in sufficient numbers. We will see. This is not the Hearts situation where their very existence was threatened. Will be interesting to see how it pans out.

I have no doubt there will be common ground between the way the board sees the future and the way BuyHibs do. Let's hope so The club may well be reminding though that for want of a better phrase, it's their ba'.

[lucky]

Good statement from LD. Hopefully the AGM will take place shortly

[danhibees1875]

Regarding the reference to the AGM, have I missed this being announced?

Any reason for the delay in the accounts compared to prior years?

[The Falcon]

You can understand folks concerns and once we are filled in with more info I'm sure everyone will then know where they stand.

There will be some tough questions that will want answered no doubt and will be interesting to see how this pans out. I notice as well there are many still very happy with STF and Petrie at the helm and that's fair enough.




I dont recall anybody saying they are "very happy" with STF and Petrie, I would suggest that most recognise that change was needed and this may be done in the shape of LD. Certainly nobody has said they are very happy given our current situation but there are those who do not hold STF directly responsible. While STF is certainly not "hands on" where the football club (he is not even on the board) is concerned the loan from Holdings to the FC would at least suggest he is financially supportive.

I feel we are right to ask for details as anybody thinking they will make money out of this, IMO, needs their head examined.

[Andy74]

They've told us that they don't have investors in place. On their website it says:

Budge is also getting all her cash paid back and in the meantime owns a football club and a chunk of land that was able to be had on the cheap.

It's not comparable at all.

[Ronniekirk]

IMHO it is not best for Hibs- I dont believe for a second they have "fresh investment|", and I'd be intrested to see how many fans sign up to monthly payments - sorry, a hard mesage but I believe the long term financial stability of the club rests with STF.
But he won't be here forever so change has to happen at some point And better to start to plan for this surely .

[Peevemor]

But he won't be here forever so change has to happen at some point And better to start to plan for this surely .

Yeah, because I'm sure the thought has never crossed STF's mind.

[Golden Bear]

But he won't be here forever so change has to happen at some point And better to start to plan for this surely .

And Sir Tom will be fully aware that he can't go on forever and I'm equally sure that he'll have succession planning in place. We'll find eventually I guess.

[Billy Whizz]

Yeah, because I'm sure the thought has never crossed STF's mind.

What's he doing about it then?

[emerald green]

Just skim read quickly through this thread. Lots of excellent posts, and many good points have been made, and relevant questions asked. There's too much to take in at once (for me anyway!), and lots of issues need to be clarified, all in the fullness of time no doubt.

Basically, I'm in favour of anything which will be to the long term benefit and security of Hibernian Football Club. I would not be averse to paying a monthly amount into a fan buy out if I was satisfied that what is being proposed ensured this happened.

What the best way forward for the club is right at this moment, I honestly don't know.

[Pretty Boy]

It's fantastic progress that a positive statement has come out at all. In years gone by this would have been time to retreat to the bunker and batten down the hatches.

Well done LD.

[Andy74]

What's he doing about it then?

I've been saying for a wee while now. This is a key question the answer to which would help us all decide whether we need to think about fan ownership or not.

Let's face it the club has to be run on spending just what it takes in and so the owner only really matters when your talking security and safety for the long term.

If the family were to continue to hold the club and guarantee that then great.

Not sure if everyone appreciates that changing owners won't mean we will be spending someone's cash for a bit!

[offshorehibby]

Good statement from LD. Hopefully the AGM will take place shortly


Regarding the reference to the AGM, have I missed this being announced?

Any reason for the delay in the accounts compared to prior years?



I wonder if Hibs had an inkling this was in the offing and have held back on the AGM till after it was announced.

Fingers crossed I'm home for it.

[franks]

I've been right through the web site and have attended earlier meetings although couldn't manage today. I'm impressed by the proposals and completed a pledge. Up to everyone to make up their own mind but I'm happy to see this progress.

[Ronniekirk]

Yeah, because I'm sure the thought has never crossed STF's mind.
Part of the reason there is always speculation when new story breaks is that we don't know what his future plans may be The winds of Change have brought in Leeann who imo has been a breath of fresh air .She has made it clear what aims are and set about communicating these and now we are seeing some signs things are on the turn for the club .She has talked openly about Transparancy and I just think that it would help if at the next AGM sir Tom attended and addressed this issue in a way that allows fans to at least be reassured . I really don't think that's too much to ask , but maybe you are right and we have no right to know we just have to wait and see what Transpires but I would rather know so when campaigns like the current one start up I would be better informed about whether to get behind it or not .maybe I am being naive but just don't see need for holding back info in this new era of more Transparancy and open communication between club and fans We are supposed to be in this together for the common goal of improving Hibernian .

[Kaff]

As many have said i'm not averse to exploring new ways of ownership but it does seem to have been handled a bit cack handed, some coming on here criticising people in positions of authority and then noting that their positions are not assured in any new setup. This concerns me in that Dempster and Craig may well be the right people, at last, to bring us back to a good level yet they are being undermined and perhaps given a feeling of job insecurity that could lead them to look for alternative positions.
It just isnt good practice and makes me worried about their future handling of a difficult process, just when we look to be stabilising our on the park performances this could steer things up so i hope they up their game now the ball is rolling

[tigerted]

Like all Branches, we were only notified late yesterday about this meeting. The fact that we were able to muster from the membership over half the number of Hibs Fans there, is testament to our ability to mobilise our members at very short notice, through our website, e-mails & mobile phone numbers etc. For your information, member Ross produced the following:

Around 30 supporters gathered at the Hibernian Supporters Association Club , Neil Whellan, Pat Stanton, Paul Kane and Andrew Sibley face camera crews from STV, BBC, Sky Sports and reporters from most of the press . A short video was then played for all to watch on a screen with various images representing Hibernian Football Club.

NW then spoke and said they had come together after meeting with various groups of Hibernian Supporters and also Supporters Direct. Their aim was to start a positive move forward, to safeguard and protect the Club. The debt is estimated between £6-9m – an unhealthy position. The current position of the football team was deemed unacceptable. They are looking for fresh investment into the football club and a letter had been delivered to Sir Tom Farmer earlier that morning.

PK and PS then spoke and expressed their disappointment in the Club and League position. PS said that the warning signs had been there for years, yet the current Board seemed unaware for this. A specific mention of Leigh Griffiths saving us the season before. They were also disappointed that the AGM had been delayed this year and they were unaware of the reasons why. PK went on to mention that were have a relatively young fan base and that a lot of supporters over the age of thirty five had drifted away of the past decade. He said it was pivotal to get these supporters, those particularly who do not attend games, on side.

Various phrases such as ‘positive change’, ‘uniting together’ and ‘moving forward’ became a theme throughout the statement.

PK went on to speak about ‘Forever Hibernian’ where 2,000 supporters united at a rally demanding the removal of Rod Petrie from our football club. This number grew to 4,000 when a survey was released by Forever Hibernian asking for further input from the supporters. PK stated that we have ‘no white knight’ and that the money can only come from the Supporters.

A Community Trust business vehicle has been created to allow STF to consider selling the club. It was stated that various, potential new owners had come and been deemed ‘not worthy’ by STF. It was then mentioned that if the fans are not worthy enough of taking over ownership of the club, who is? The vehicle itself is something STF expressed interest in many years ago and would allow him to have a lasting, positive legacy at the club. He mentioned that whilst supporters do not always share or have the same opinions, we are all united with one common goal – ensuring Hibernian Football Club is a success. Fans will dictate the change, not those communicating who are merely the face of the campaign. They want to understand STF price for the club along with the principles he wants in place. Assets must stay together. Club, Ground and Training Centre come as one. It was then mentioned that if the supporters get behind this model, STF could not afford to ignore it and must enter dialogue with the group.

AS said they have various experts on board already with Corporate Advisers, Legal Advisers, Marketing Experts, Financial Advisers and Commercial Experts.The model was described as taking the best from previous models used at Portsmouth, Motherwell and Dunfermline, with one important positive being that we are not in Administration. Time has been spent with these clubs understanding their models. We would be the first club in Scotland to use this model. There are business people who will invest in the UK and from overseas, all Hibs Supporters. The company has been set up with six directors and that interim directors were currently in place. It was apparent that a membership scheme was at the front of this model, with investors (also Supporters) ‘waiting in the wings’ if the support can unite together

Ross

Thanks for posting the Video.


I'm not meaning to start an inter-branch fight or anything, just a genuine question, but why St Pat's Branch? Is there some link between the takeover group and that particular Branch?

[Peevemor]

Part of the reason there is always speculation when new story breaks is that we don't know what his future plans may be The winds of Change have brought in Leeann who imo has been a breath of fresh air .She has made it clear what aims are and set about communicating these and now we are seeing some signs things are on the turn for the club .She has talked openly about Transparancy and I just think that it would help if at the next AGM sir Tom attended and addressed this issue in a way that allows fans to at least be reassured . I really don't think that's too much to ask , but maybe you are right and we have no right to know we just have to wait and see what Transpires but I would rather know so when campaigns like the current one start up I would be better informed about whether to get behind it or not .maybe I am being naive but just don't see need for holding back info in this new era of more Transparancy and open communication between club and fans We are supposed to be in this together for the common goal of improving Hibernian .

Hibs are effectively privately owned by STF. He is in no way obliged to inform the public of any plans he may have for his shareholding. It could well be that he simply intends that it stays in his family.

Leeann Dempster is an employee of the STF/the club and will not comment on STF's shareholding unless specifically instructed to do so.

My boss has just turned 62 and will probably retire in the not so distant future. I wonder how he'd feel if a bunch of clients got together to make a press announcement about buying him out without having consulted him on the issue?

[Andy74]

Like all Branches, we were only notified late yesterday about this meeting. The fact that we were able to muster from the membership over half the number of Hibs Fans there, is testament to our ability to mobilise our members at very short notice, through our website, e-mails & mobile phone numbers etc. For your information, member Ross produced the following:

Around 30 supporters gathered at the Hibernian Supporters Association Club , Neil Whellan, Pat Stanton, Paul Kane and Andrew Sibley face camera crews from STV, BBC, Sky Sports and reporters from most of the press . A short video was then played for all to watch on a screen with various images representing Hibernian Football Club.

NW then spoke and said they had come together after meeting with various groups of Hibernian Supporters and also Supporters Direct. Their aim was to start a positive move forward, to safeguard and protect the Club. The debt is estimated between £6-9m – an unhealthy position. The current position of the football team was deemed unacceptable. They are looking for fresh investment into the football club and a letter had been delivered to Sir Tom Farmer earlier that morning.

PK and PS then spoke and expressed their disappointment in the Club and League position. PS said that the warning signs had been there for years, yet the current Board seemed unaware for this. A specific mention of Leigh Griffiths saving us the season before. They were also disappointed that the AGM had been delayed this year and they were unaware of the reasons why. PK went on to mention that were have a relatively young fan base and that a lot of supporters over the age of thirty five had drifted away of the past decade. He said it was pivotal to get these supporters, those particularly who do not attend games, on side.

Various phrases such as ‘positive change’, ‘uniting together’ and ‘moving forward’ became a theme throughout the statement.

PK went on to speak about ‘Forever Hibernian’ where 2,000 supporters united at a rally demanding the removal of Rod Petrie from our football club. This number grew to 4,000 when a survey was released by Forever Hibernian asking for further input from the supporters. PK stated that we have ‘no white knight’ and that the money can only come from the Supporters.

A Community Trust business vehicle has been created to allow STF to consider selling the club. It was stated that various, potential new owners had come and been deemed ‘not worthy’ by STF. It was then mentioned that if the fans are not worthy enough of taking over ownership of the club, who is? The vehicle itself is something STF expressed interest in many years ago and would allow him to have a lasting, positive legacy at the club. He mentioned that whilst supporters do not always share or have the same opinions, we are all united with one common goal – ensuring Hibernian Football Club is a success. Fans will dictate the change, not those communicating who are merely the face of the campaign. They want to understand STF price for the club along with the principles he wants in place. Assets must stay together. Club, Ground and Training Centre come as one. It was then mentioned that if the supporters get behind this model, STF could not afford to ignore it and must enter dialogue with the group.

AS said they have various experts on board already with Corporate Advisers, Legal Advisers, Marketing Experts, Financial Advisers and Commercial Experts.The model was described as taking the best from previous models used at Portsmouth, Motherwell and Dunfermline, with one important positive being that we are not in Administration. Time has been spent with these clubs understanding their models. We would be the first club in Scotland to use this model. There are business people who will invest in the UK and from overseas, all Hibs Supporters. The company has been set up with six directors and that interim directors were currently in place. It was apparent that a membership scheme was at the front of this model, with investors (also Supporters) ‘waiting in the wings’ if the support can unite together

Ross

The point about Griffiths saving us the previous season is a bit cheap. He was an important part of the team but he was registered to play for us for a reason! We spent most of the season in the top six and finished with more points than 6th and 5th placed teams.

[DaveF]

Like all Branches, we were only notified late yesterday about this meeting. The fact that we were able to muster from the membership over half the number of Hibs Fans there, is testament to our ability to mobilise our members at very short notice

No need for anyone to hand out accolades since you seem to be giving them out yourself :greengrin

Poor show from all those Hibs fans who had crappy things like work and kids to get on with eh!

[Andy74]

Had a chance to watch it all now. Not for me and a bit of a surprise to see Pat involved in that.

[Billy Whizz]

Hibs are effectively privately owned by STF. He is in no way obliged to inform the public of any plans he may have for his shareholding. It could well be that he simply intends that it stays in his family.

Leeann Dempster is an employee of the STF/the club and will not comment on STF's shareholding unless specifically instructed to do so.

My boss has just turned 62 and will probably retire in the not so distant future. I wonder how he'd feel if a bunch of clients got together to make a press announcement about buying him out without having consulted him on the issue?

And STF is 74 and seemingly hasn't made any plans to move on Hibs. At his age he should be enjoying his retirement, and not having to worry about Hibs etc. Unless he's a control freak and can't let go?

[Andy74]

And STF is 74 and seemingly hasn't made any plans to move on Hibs. At his age he should be enjoying his retirement, and not having to worry about Hibs etc. Unless he's a control freak and can't let go?

Seemingly hasn't made plans? What evidence could there be for that?

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

Really?

Would you be happy with STF/HFC taking a dividend?

Yeah, why not? If they are risking their own wealth on a business over which they will only ever have a minority stake. And also, assuming we will be aiming not to make big profits, I wouldnt have any problem with a dividend on profits.

I take it youre not keen on the idea?

[Andy74]

Yeah, why not? If they are risking their own wealth on a business over which they will only ever have a minority stake. And also, assuming we will be aiming not to make big profits, I wouldnt have any problem with a dividend on profits.

I take it youre not keen on the idea?

If the club make any profit it should ideally go back to the playing side surely?

[CropleyWasGod]

Yeah, why not? If they are risking their own wealth on a business over which they will only ever have a minority stake. And also, assuming we will be aiming not to make big profits, I wouldnt have any problem with a dividend on profits.

I take it youre not keen on the idea?
I was meaning in the past.

[RyeSloan]

Seems a bit strange that we are contemplating raising tens, hundreds of thousands of pounds...maybe even millions one day to buy the club from our owner and effectively fill his pockets with supporters cash..personally I would rather see that money go to the club and discussions take place with STF regarding putting some (or all) of his shareholding into a trust.

Sure that would rely on the goodwill of STF but in reality he's never shown any desire to 'cash in' his shareholding at any point so see no reason why he would not be open to dialogue on this.

Basically I'm a bit confused as to what the aim is here and if this is the correct approach at this point in time.

[Peevemor]

Seemingly hasn't made plans? What evidence could there be for that?

Exactly.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

If the club make any profit it should ideally go back to the playing side surely?

Ideally yeah, and at least 90% of them would still. But surely there has to be a recognition that to operate in the real business world, you simply dont get free money, unless youre very fortunate.

Ironically, is it not kinda what we have at the moment!

[Andy74]

Ideally yeah, and at least 90% of them would still. But surely there has to be a recognition that to operate in the real business world, you simply dont get free money, unless youre very fortunate.

Ironically, is it not kinda what we have at the moment!

You run the club with the income you generate. That doesn't need free money or repayments to investors.

You don't really generate profit as such because you pay out what you think you get in.

[BroxburnHibee]

Had a chance to watch it all now. Not for me and a bit of a surprise to see Pat involved in that.

Exactly how I felt.

[Smartie]

Would it not have been better for Buy Hibs to approach STF with their proposal and ask him to work with them before asking folk to make pledges. If they had been able to release a statement saying they were working with STF to a common goal which involved partial fan ownership I'm sure a lot of people would have jumped on board.

As it is we have two camps again with Buy Hibs looking for an input of cash, or at least pledges, as a starting point before opening negotiations, or at least to strengthen their hand during negotiations?

£10 a month would be a big commitment for me which I would be happy to find, if it was to support a firm offer of partial fan ownership and with a guarantee that every penny would go towards the betterment of Hibs. I would be very uncomfortable with any of that money going to a dividend for shareholders.

In short ..... why not approach STF for his support first. If he was on board with the idea and it was clear that if Buy Hibs get the required backing, including pledges, he will cooperate and back the process fully and help it move forward all the uncertainty would be removed at a stroke.

Why cant it work that way?

Maybe they already have? STF's silence always makes it difficult to work out though.

Is what has been announced today an entirely new proposal?

Looking at the names mentioned does it not seem a bit like a fine-tuned version of what Paul Kane was putting forward a couple of months ago? The proposal that was flung out by STF?

Maybe there has been some further dialogue, STF said to this group (now with Pat Stanton as chairman instead of Kano to give the proposal a bit more credibilty since Kano was widely criticised last time) to come back and talk to him when he has a commitment from a certain number of fans/ businessman and then they can talk?

FWIW at the time of the last "talks" between Kano et al and STF I was speaking to one of Kano's close mates and the proposal they were then talking about seemed sensible, realistic and in the interest of all parties. Hopefully with a bit of tweaking they've come up with something that might work.

I'm cautiously optimistic and would be prepared to get involved but, like everyone else, would need a bit more detail.

[BuyHibs]

Update from BuyHibs

Good Evening we would like to respond to an earlier point raised on the message board to a particular question on our Q&A on the website. Please see the below explanation to this and where we stand on this particular subject.

"Just to clarify our position re Leanne and George, we are not calling for them to be removed and do not hold them accountable for our previous woes and we are keen to see what they can bring to Hibernian. There is no vendetta against anyone and no witchhunt and all we want it the best for the club. Our apologies for the confusion around this point and accept we do not have all the answers now and there is a lot of work to do".

We are currently in the process of setting up Q&A face to face sessions, and also on the message boards for people that cannot make our face to face Sessions. We aim to answer all supporters questions regarding the campaign.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

I was meaning in the past.

Sorry mate, misread your post.

I wouldnt mind farmer taking a dividend, but im not sure what risk petrie has taken by investing his own cash to deserve one. But in principle no, I dont mind.

I don't have a problem with farmers model of ownership per se, in fact id say its slmost the best model we could realistically hope for. My problem is that petries strategy has failed terribly, and in a normal business he would have been booted by now.

[Benny Brazil]

Exactly how I felt.

Yes me too - got to say not overly impressed by this.

[Andy74]

Update from BuyHibs

Good Evening we would like to respond to an earlier point raised on the message board to a particular question on our Q&A on the website. Please see the below explanation to this and where we stand on this particular subject.

"Just to clarify our position re Leanne and George, we are not calling for them to be removed and do not hold them accountable for our precious woes and we are keen to see what they can bring to Hibernian. There is no vendetta against anyone and no witchhunt and all we want it the best for the club. Our apologies for the confusion around this point and accept we do not have all the answers now and there is a lot of work to do".

We are currently in the process of setting up Q&A face to face sessions, and also on the message boards for people that cannot make our face to face Sessions. We aim to answer all supporters questions regarding the campaign.

Quick one. Did the group see the results of the club survey that was open to all? What did they take from that about moving on with is proposal at this time?

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

You run the club with the income you generate. That doesn't need free money or repayments to investors.

You don't really generate profit as such because you pay out what you think you get in.

I think ive misunderstood. I read the model as being that outside investmentwould be sought, for up to 49% of ownership? Thats what I was mmeaning.

[Andy74]

I think ive misunderstood. I read the model as being that outside investmentwould be sought, for up to 49% of ownership? Thats what I was mmeaning.

Indeed that seems to be the proposal and the problem is that money would leave the club as a result.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

Indeed that seems to be the proposal and the problem is that money would leave the club as a result.

I see.

I dont know, ive read the same as everyone else. But in principle, I have no problem with limited dividends being paid if we are seeking outside investment (as opposed to philanthropy, which is what most fans mean wgen they say investment)

You raise an important question though... how would shares be valued for an investor, or for fans for that matter?

Also id say money will always leave the club if you source cash from elsewhere - interest psyments to banks etc

[rcarter1]

Lots of negative responses. Its understandable, as it is all a bit vague at the moment, but I would like to see the group have a chance to build dialogue with STF. I would however want the group to be very clear in their support of Alan Stubbs and the team, and preferably also Leanne Dempster. Until we know what STF is willing to do, we have no idea if this (proto) plan has legs , but it would be good to see this develop to a point where we could get an idea of what was needed from the supporters.

Nothing ventured nothing gained..

[Kaff]

Update from BuyHibs

Good Evening we would like to respond to an earlier point raised on the message board to a particular question on our Q&A on the website. Please see the below explanation to this and where we stand on this particular subject.

"Just to clarify our position re Leanne and George, we are not calling for them to be removed and do not hold them accountable for our precious woes and we are keen to see what they can bring to Hibernian. There is no vendetta against anyone and no witchhunt and all we want it the best for the club. Our apologies for the confusion around this point and accept we do not have all the answers now and there is a lot of work to do".

We are currently in the process of setting up Q&A face to face sessions, and also on the message boards for people that cannot make our face to face Sessions. We aim to answer all supporters questions regarding the campaign.

Thats good to hear, i don't imagine 'NW' (the poster) will be on here now but he did jump in a bit heavy handed and has perhaps jaundiced a bit of opinion. Not an auspicious start and possibly shows the problem of internet forums!

[Andy74]

I see.

I dont know, ive read the same as everyone else. But in principle, I have no problem with limited dividends being paid if we are seeking outside investment (as opposed to philanthropy, which is what most fans mean wgen they say investment)

You raise an important question though... how would shares be valued for an investor, or for fans for that matter?

Also id say money will always leave the club if you source cash from elsewhere - interest psyments to banks etc

So there are two things from this once it's thought through that we need to be aware of.

To reach this type of shareholding us the fans will have had to put our hands in our pockets to the tune of probably seven figures.

We would also have accepted outside investment which will come with the expectation of a dividend.

I'm not sure that money out of my pocket and then money taken out of the club is something I'm happy to put up with to get to an ownership model that seems less secure than we have now.

Gets back to the main question of why do I want or need a bit of a football club? Not certain I do really.

This group make reference to a number of professions that sound good but really how senior or experienced are they in these roles? From the video and some of the posts previously by NW I have my doubts!

[RIP]

I have a lot of respect for Leeann and Neil. Both are astute and professional. They were caught in the middle of a messy situation a few months ago and some of the posting activity was ill advised. It's my understanding that they have spoken since and are happy to work together.

In the heat of the post relegation period mistakes were made with Petrie Out and Forever Hibernian. Now that new faces have come forward it looks like lessons are being learned and a professional set up put in place. We shouldn't underestimate the courage required to be a named individual in this kind of venture.

I have no doubt that there are other businesspeople and senior professionals in support. Whatever the outcome these Hibs supporters have my admiration.

[Barney McGrew]

I'm not sure that money out of my pocket and then money taken out of the club is something I'm happy to put up with to get to an ownership model that seems less secure than we have now

That in a nutshell is the challenge that BuyHibs have. Just how can they convince enough that scenario is the one we need to pursue?

I just don't see what the benefits are.

[Kaff]

I have a lot of respect for Leeann and Neil. Both are astute and professional. They were caught in the middle of a messy situation a few months ago and some of the posting activity was ill advised. It's my understanding that they have spoken since and are happy to work together.

Mistakes were made with Petrie Out and Forever Hibernian. Now that new faces have come forward it looks like lessons are being learned and a professional set up put in place. We shouldn't underestimate the courage required to be a named individual in this kind of venture.

I have no doubt that there are other businesspeople and senior professionals in support. Whatever the outcome these Hibs supporters have my admiration.

In truth, if that is the case then 'NW' should come on here himself and say that. Slinging mud publicly but making amends behind the scenes is a bit ropey to say the least in what is a very public situation. Bit amateurish if you ask me.

[Andy74]

That in a nutshell is the challenge that BuyHibs have. Just how can they convince enough that scenario is the one we need to pursue?

I just don't see what the benefits are.

Look at Motherwell. Done very well in recent years. Owner actively saying he has had enough. After an initial flurry the contributions dried up. When push comes to shove unless you are faced with the club not being here there are other things for us all to divert our money to.

Things seem to be taking shape at the club and the recent tour left people enthused about the current set up and ambitions.

Add to that the recent survey which showed little appetite for this just now. This group should really have thought about who's agenda they are pushing here.

[Michael]

From what I can tell Hibs assets are around £15m in value. If somehow we got 8000 fans to donate that would be on average £1875 each. Coincidence...or is it? :cb

[inglisavhibs]

I hear what you both say - and I'm sure there are many others who feel the same way.

But I don't look for passion from an owner - I require that from the management and the backroom staff and the team. I just want someone with the best interests of the club at heart, and I've seen nothing from STF that says he's not that type of owner. But I'm aware that not everyone will agree with me. I'd far rather have a dispassionate but benevolent owner than one who intervenes at every stage in executive and footballing decisions.
Me too! Perfect set up with owner staying in th background and letting the football people get on with it. Problem has been that the football people we have had have been very poor. Hopefully Stubbs and his staff prove to be a big improvement.

[Kaff]

Look at Motherwell. Done very well in recent years. Owner actively saying he has had enough. After an initial flurry the contributions dried up. When push comes to shove unless you are faced with the club not being here there are other things for us all to divert our money to.

Things seem to be taking shape at the club and the recent tour left people enthused about the current set up and ambitions.

Add to that the recent survey which showed little appetite for this just now. This group should really have thought about who's agenda they are pushing here.

I'm glad you and Peevemor are here to put forward your strongminded viewpoint Andy, this situation needs people like yourselves who held their nerve months ago and werent cowed by constant criticism (i know you went off forum for a while) and will provide consistent analysis on this matter.
I'm happy to explore the ownership situation but imo its leadership we've been lacking and, while ultimately the responsibility of the owner, its not always down to the model of ownership we have but who they have installed as their leader. I'm hoping we have moved to resolve that and look to be reaping the rewards so hope we dont throw the baby out with the bathwater

[Liberal Hibby]

So there are two things from this once it's thought through that we need to be aware of.

To reach this type of shareholding us the fans will have had to put our hands in our pockets to the tune of probably seven figures.

We would also have accepted outside investment which will come with the expectation of a dividend.

I'm not sure that money out of my pocket and then money taken out of the club is something I'm happy to put up with to get to an ownership model that seems less secure than we have now.

Gets back to the main question of why do I want or need a bit of a football club? Not certain I do really.

This group make reference to a number of professions that sound good but really how senior or experienced are they in these roles? From the video and some of the posts previously by NW I have my doubts!

I'm not convinced by the ownership model or the dividend issue and I'm a fan of community/fan ownership and think it should be the way forward for all football clubs.

But I do not see why Buyhibs have gone for the Hearts monthly pledge model - which puts a level of separation between the fans and any shareholding that comes out of theis. Why not simply push for the shares to be bought by individual fans? Those that can't afford a monthly contribution could still buy a small amount. And if you had the shares on a limited by guarantee basis then noone could take a dividend and take money out of the club.

[rcarter1]

Look at Motherwell. Done very well in recent years. Owner actively saying he has had enough. After an initial flurry the contributions dried up. When push comes to shove unless you are faced with the club not being here there are other things for us all to divert our money to.

Things seem to be taking shape at the club and the recent tour left people enthused about the current set up and ambitions.

Add to that the recent survey which showed little appetite for this just now. This group should really have thought about who's agenda they are pushing here.

I think the good news is that there is plenty of time to implement the change. Even if its a slow burner, we have that time. Just because people like Alan Stubbs and Leanne etc are doing what appears to be a very good job, doesn't mean people want a change in the way the club is owned.

[ronaldo7]

Look at Motherwell. Done very well in recent years. Owner actively saying he has had enough. After an initial flurry the contributions dried up. When push comes to shove unless you are faced with the club not being here there are other things for us all to divert our money to.

Things seem to be taking shape at the club and the recent tour left people enthused about the current set up and ambitions.

Add to that the recent survey which showed little appetite for this just now. This group should really have thought about who's agenda they are pushing here.

It's the club's agenda. LD openly asked at East Mains, which then developed into the consultation meetings in September. As far as I can see, this group have only taken up LD's offer of pushing at an open door.

[Moon unit]

Sir Tom...you have lived an interesting and varied life. You came to our rescue in our real hour of need!
For that ...the Hibernian family will be forever grateful.
You worked hard for your wealth, providing jobs for those in need
Now ....is it not time to make the ultimate sacrifice and hand over the club to the people who love it so very much ........the fans!
Then Tom........your legend will shine brightly...forever!
GGTTH

[Coco Bryce]

Have to laugh at all the people asking for unspecified clarity!

If you have any questions, go ahead and ask!

Who are you?

[andrew70]

The club will always be and has always been ours so Sir Tom doesn't need to give anything back to us. It's always been our responsibility so to speak.

I will wait til the AGM and Leeann's plan etc before I back anything with so many flaws. IMO all we need is a better membership plan and options rather than a full scale buy out. A buy out requires fans with deep pockets and continued sums of money.

Situations change, people have other priorities, families come first and jobs may go. For example, I already give approx £1000 a year to the club through various revenues, I honestly can't afford much more so how does this work alongside your ST's, Sponsorships and such like?

Also comparing this to the way Hearts have done it is complete folly as well. Hearts had to do it, they had no other option, their support was galvanised because of this. We don't have to do this and asking the same core group of fans to plough even more money in isn't going to be easy for the reasons mentioned above.

I am glad the club have explained that they will be receptive and will listen but I genuinely hope that the fans give the club a chance to explain their side of this and their plans. I fully believe we need to find some middle ground rather than jumping in to something that if it goes wrong will have devastating consequences. I ain't sure that will happen though as it seems like people blame the current custodians rather than looking at the facts and realising that apart from 8k core support then we will struggle to get much more.

[djs69]

When was the last time the hibs owner made any sort of comments or statement regarding his company, our club???too many people talking about this and that and the current owner says hee haw, he needs to be forthcoming with a statement about all this

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

So there are two things from this once it's thought through that we need to be aware of.

To reach this type of shareholding us the fans will have had to put our hands in our pockets to the tune of probably seven figures.

We would also have accepted outside investment which will come with the expectation of a dividend.

I'm not sure that money out of my pocket and then money taken out of the club is something I'm happy to put up with to get to an ownership model that seems less secure than we have now.

Gets back to the main question of why do I want or need a bit of a football club? Not certain I do really.

This group make reference to a number of professions that sound good but really how senior or experienced are they in these roles? From the video and some of the posts previously by NW I have my doubts!

Agree with your scepticism re the plan, and more so the people behind it.

In fact, when I read the cvs I was distinctly unimpressed and quite worried by the peoples background, and the fairly transparent spin given to them.

Plus, I know some of the people they approached and how it was done, and it seemed very amateur to me.

Im not impressed by them so far, and I really worry about pat s and kano being involved, as id hate them to be tarred by a cock up.

[Peevemor]

When was the last time the hibs owner made any sort of comments or statement regarding his company, our club???too many people talking about this and that and the current owner says hee haw, he needs to be forthcoming with a statement about all this

Why? He owns the club - he can do what he wants.

[blackpoolhibs]

Why? He owns the club - he can do what he wants.

Terrific, and can you tell me just how this is panning out?

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

Indeed that seems to be the proposal and the problem is that money would leave the club as a result.

I see.

I dont know, ive read the same as everyone else. But in principle, I have no problem with limited dividends being paid if we are seeking outside investment (as opposed to philanthropy, which is what most fans mean wgen they say investment)

You raise an important question though... how would shares be valued for an investor, or for fans for that matter?

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

I was meaning in the past.

Sorry mate, misread your post.

I wouldnt mind farmer taking a dividend, but im not sure what risk petrie has taken by investing his own cash to deserve one. But in principle no, I dont mind.

I don't have a problem with farmers model of ownership per se, in fact id say its slmost the best model we could realistically hope for. My problem is that petries strategy has failed terribly, and in a normal business he would have been booted by now.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

Really?

Would you be happy with STF/HFC taking a dividend?

Yeah, why not? If they are risking their own wealth on a business over which they will only ever have a minority stake. And also, assuming we will be aiming not to make big profits, I wouldnt have any problem with a dividend on profits.

I take it youre not keen on the idea?

[Peevemor]

Terrific, and can you tell me just how this is panning out?

You don't need me to answer that.

[Cropley10]

Is it not the case that STF has said that he's only interested in selling the Club to those with its best interests at heart?

If this is the case, perhaps he's sees fan ownership as the obvious model by which he can receive some return for his investment AND not have to worry about speculators, crooks or conmen.

Of course fan ownership of Clubs is nothing new, aren't Barcelona owned by their fans, Dortmund too.

I can't help thinking, having read all of the comments on this thread, that some folk are going to be VERY disappointed if STF actually agrees with the idea!!

[Andy74]

Is it not the case that STF has said that he's only interested in selling the Club to those with its best interests at heart?

If this is the case, perhaps he's sees fan ownership as the obvious model by which he can receive some return for his investment AND not have to worry about speculators, crooks or conmen.

Of course fan ownership of Clubs is nothing new, aren't Barcelona owned by their fans, Dortmund too.

I can't help thinking, having read all of the comments on this thread, that some folk are going to be VERY disappointed if STF actually agrees with the idea!!
Yeah I would be very disappointed if he agreed that this was the way forward as it would mean he was no longer willing to own the club on the current basis.

I'd be very concerned about the potential costs and risks.

[SunshineOnLeith]

When was the last time the hibs owner made any sort of comments or statement regarding his company, our club???too many people talking about this and that and the current owner says hee haw, he needs to be forthcoming with a statement about all this

All what?

[NAE NOOKIE]

Why? He owns the club - he can do what he wants.

That's true .......... It is also the reason that every proposal put forward is treated with a huge dose of scepticism by loads of supporters who complain about the perceived inability of any bidder to come up with the money or a better model than the current one.

But when nobody knows what the owners plan for his 90% stake in the club is if he doesn't sell it, or even what he would be willing to accept in order to pass the club on, how can we have any idea whether any bid or proposal could have legs or not.

Just because you can do what you like doesn't mean its the right thing to do.

Getting a strong feeling of Deja vu about this thread :sairhead:

[Criswell]

Why? He owns the club - he can do what he wants.

True, I suppose. But that sort of attitude is hardly going to endear himself to the vast majority of supporters/customers.

[djs69]

He owns a football club which thousands of people of leith and Edinburgh love, a club which has been on the decline for years, a club which has a bit of a divide amongst it's fans and an unclear future yet he chooses to remain totally silent. I don't think that's acceptable

[Cropley10]

Yeah I would be very disappointed if he agreed that this was the way forward as it would mean he was no longer willing to own the club on the current basis.

I'd be very concerned about the potential costs and risks.

Really? So how does STF ever get back (some of) what he put in to Hibernian? Or is this all a gift?

And what happens when the inevitable happens? It's broken up and sold, but to who?

That would be far, far more risky, never mind very expensive, ultimately. I'd be more worried if it doesn't happen frankly.

[Andy74]

Really? So how does STF ever get back (some of) what he put in to Hibernian? Or is this all a gift?

And what happens when the inevitable happens? It's broken up and sold, but to who?

That would be far, far more risky, never mind very expensive, ultimately. I'd be more worried if it doesn't happen frankly.

I don't believe there is anything inevitable about us being broken up and sold. It's more likely that he has a plan to pass it on to family or in some other arrangement that doesn't involve fans parting with large sums of cash or investors who want dividends getting involved.

[Peevemor]

True, I suppose. But that sort of attitude is hardly going to endear himself to the vast majority of supporters/customers.

Why? He didn't ask for any of this did he?

Before I get shot down, I know fine how important supporters are to any club. I know fine that Hibs have to get x thousand people through the gates every second week. I know that Hibs is a lot more than just a business to a great many people (myself included).

However, I think some people are getting well above their station in making demands of STF. For me there's little doubt that he'll have had to bale the club out last season and will probably be doing the same again until we're promoted.

Yes, you can say that it's his own fault - ultimately it is, but nobody has the legal right to demand anything of him regarding his plans for the ownership of the club.

He owns it - full stop!

I own my car. Some people may be of the opinion that I should sell it to somebody who will look after it better. A crowd of people might start a public subscription campaign to buy it from me. Everyone else can do what they see fit . If I want I can just ignore them until such time as they make me an offer, at which time I'll answer them accordingly.

It might appear to be a ridiculous comparison to make, but legally it's exactly the same.

[NAE NOOKIE]

Why? He didn't ask for any of this did he?

Before I get shot down, I know fine how important supporters are to any club. I know fine that Hibs have to get x thousand people through the gates every second week. I know that Hibs is a lot more than just a business to a great many people (myself included).

However, I think some people are getting well above their station in making demands of STF. For me there's little doubt that he'll have had to bale the club out last season and will probably be doing the same again until we're promoted.

Yes, you can say that it's his own fault - ultimately it is, but nobody has the legal right to demand anything of him regarding his plans for the ownership of the club.

He owns it - full stop!

I own my car. Some people may be of the opinion that I should sell it to somebody who will look after it better. A crowd of people might start a public subscription campaign to buy it from me. Everyone else can do what they see fit . If I want I can just ignore them until such time as they make me an offer, at which time I'll answer them accordingly.

It might appear to be a ridiculous comparison to make, but legally it's exactly the same.

Its not a legal question Peevemore its a moral one .... but I think you know that.

[Cropley10]

I don't believe there is anything inevitable about us being broken up and sold. It's more likely that he has a plan to pass it on to family or in some other arrangement that doesn't involve fans parting with large sums of cash or investors who want dividends getting involved.

I didn't realise he had a plan to pass it on to his family, that's very decent of him and them to take on a loss making business with no potential to realise any of its capital value:greengrin

By the way investors wanting dividends is a complete non-starter (and a red herring).

[Peevemor]

Its not a legal question Peevemore its a moral one .... but I think you know that.

Of course. Buy Hibs was launched today and a few hours later the club issued an official statement welcoming the initiative. What moral right does anyone have to criticise STF for a perceived lack of response? Do people think that LD issued that statement entirely off her own bat?

[Andy74]

I didn't realise he had a plan to pass it on to his family, that's very decent of him and them to take on a loss making business with no potential to realise any of its capital value:greengrin

By the way investors wanting dividends is a complete non-starter (and a red herring).

That's what he has been doing so presume he wouldn't have an issue making arrangements for that to carry on.

[Criswell]

Why? He didn't ask for any of this did he?

Before I get shot down, I know fine how important supporters are to any club. I know fine that Hibs have to get x thousand people through the gates every second week. I know that Hibs is a lot more than just a business to a great many people (myself included).

However, I think some people are getting well above their station in making demands of STF. For me there's little doubt that he'll have had to bale the club out last season and will probably be doing the same again until we're promoted.

Yes, you can say that it's his own fault - ultimately it is, but nobody has the legal right to demand anything of him regarding his plans for the ownership of the club.

He owns it - full stop!

I own my car. Some people may be of the opinion that I should sell it to somebody who will look after it better. A crowd of people might start a public subscription campaign to buy it from me. Everyone else can do what they see fit . If I want I can just ignore them until such time as they make me an offer, at which time I'll answer them accordingly.

It might appear to be a ridiculous comparison to make, but legally it's exactly the same.

I suppose we must be grateful that you at least acknowledge the fact that thousands of people make a financial and emotional investment in the club. Therefore, I think we are entitled to know what his vision for the future of the club is. He might own the club but he is not Hibernian FC.

[Peevemor]

I suppose we must be grateful that you at least acknowledge the fact that thousands of people make a financial and emotional investment in the club. Therefore, I think we are entitled to know what his vision for the future of the club is. He might own the club but he is not Hibernian FC.

Since LD's arrival there have been all sorts of things done in an effort to sort out the club's future, most of which have been well documented on the official site. The doubts over ownership are all coming from one side of the fence.

[Ozyhibby]

There are only two options on the table.

1. The status quo :- Rod Petrie, 14 points adrift in the championship, horrible Derby record, years of underachievement.

Or

2.buyHibs.org :- costs nothing to pledge unless they are successful. Hibs fans trying to turn it back into a club again.

I know which way I'm leaning.

[marinello59]

There are only two options on the table.

1. The status quo :- Rod Petrie, 14 points adrift in the championship, horrible Derby record, years of underachievement.

Or

2.buyHibs.org :- costs nothing to pledge unless they are successful. Hibs fans trying to turn it back into a club again.

I know which way I'm leaning.

1. You are not describing an option there, you are listing the problems.
2. Why would anybody pledge money if they think it isn't ultimately going to cost them anything?

I like the idea of the 51/49 % ownership option and it is worth investigating. Will it work in practice though? When the fans are demanding that we sign a Leigh Griffiths and pay him what he wants will it be any more affordable for the fans who own the club than it is for the current ownership model?

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

There are only two options on the table.

1. The status quo :- Rod Petrie, 14 points adrift in the championship, horrible Derby record, years of underachievement.

Or

2.buyHibs.org :- costs nothing to pledge unless they are successful. Hibs fans trying to turn it back into a club again.

I know which way I'm leaning.

But those arent the two choices are they?

You hsve an aa yet, unfunded bid to buy something, where a bunch of people ive never heard of (ex players excluded) asking me to pledge my money, and one of the guys thinks rabble-rousing incognito on a message board is a good way to start.

Or a multi millionaire philanthropist business man who has stood behind the club for 20 years, and has recently made changes in management dedigned to address the recent problems.

I wonder which way the dragons would lean...:-)

And if supporters took over, we would still be in tbe same position in league, and with debt but with less ability to pay it back.

[bingo70]

1. You are not describing an option there, you are listing the problems.
2. Why would anybody pledge money if they think it isn't ultimately going to cost them anything?

I like the idea of the 51/49 % ownership option and it is worth investigating. Will it work in practice though? When the fans are demanding that we sign a Leigh Griffiths and pay him what he wants will it be any more affordable for the fans who own the club than it is for the current ownership model?

I don't know the numbers involved but surely it would be better to have say 10000 folk paying £20 per month than for people not to be doing that?

I'm sure I've over simplified it so if someone could just explain how that'd be great, cheers

[Barney McGrew]

I don't know the numbers involved but surely it would be better to have say 10000 folk paying £20 per month than for people not to be doing that?

There's no way in the world there will ever be 10k people pledging money, the yams don't even have that and they needed it to survive.

[bingo70]

There's no way in the world there will ever be 10k people pledging money, the yams don't even have that and they needed it to survive.

I just used those numbers to illustrate my point. By the same token though although there may be significantly less than 10000 I'd also imagine the average contribution would be more than £20.

[Brightside]

[COLOR="#000000"]PK stated that we have ‘no white knight’ and that the money can only come from the Supporters.



That worries me.

[qiut]

Anyone know when the AGM as mentioned by Leeann Dempster in the Statement by the board will be?

[CropleyWasGod]

Anyone know when the AGM as mentioned by Leeann Dempster in the Statement by the board will be?

Reading between the lines, it will be held when the proposals are ready.

[Ronniekirk]

That worries me.
I wouldn't be getting unduly worried at this stage as it's clear that they are positioning themselves and testing what support is out there from the broader fan base which will also include business men and woman . We all know Sir Tom has made it clear he won't let Hibs change ownership unless it's a viable option on the table that can sustain the club going forward so nothing is going to change any time soon . I do sense that behind the scenes things could be being explored and there may be more of a willingness to look at new models /options , but who knows ,.the main thing for me at present is to ensure any off field speculation doesn't impact on the clear momentum we have been building on the park in the last few months .

[Andy74]

I don't know the numbers involved but surely it would be better to have say 10000 folk paying £20 per month than for people not to be doing that?

I'm sure I've over simplified it so if someone could just explain how that'd be great, cheers
Not really if it's being used to buy shares when ultimately that doesn't really get us anything better than we have. And if it's a less secure model then I would think having so many people laying out money to be in a less secure position would not be a good thing.

[jacomo]

Why? He didn't ask for any of this did he?

Before I get shot down, I know fine how important supporters are to any club. I know fine that Hibs have to get x thousand people through the gates every second week. I know that Hibs is a lot more than just a business to a great many people (myself included).

However, I think some people are getting well above their station in making demands of STF. For me there's little doubt that he'll have had to bale the club out last season and will probably be doing the same again until we're promoted.

Yes, you can say that it's his own fault - ultimately it is, but nobody has the legal right to demand anything of him regarding his plans for the ownership of the club.

He owns it - full stop!

I own my car. Some people may be of the opinion that I should sell it to somebody who will look after it better. A crowd of people might start a public subscription campaign to buy it from me. Everyone else can do what they see fit . If I want I can just ignore them until such time as they make me an offer, at which time I'll answer them accordingly.

It might appear to be a ridiculous comparison to make, but legally it's exactly the same.

Except that, to use your analogy, you ask those same people for petrol money every week so that you can use your car. In which case, they are perfectly entitled to express an opinion on how you look after it, or maybe even suggest that you sell it.

[Ozyhibby]

Pledge done.
I've still got lots of questions to ask but as no money will leave my account until a deal is done, I have plenty time to ask them.
If you support this scheme in principle and you will be able to afford to contribute then now is the time to get signed up.

[Peevemor]

Except that, to use your analogy, you ask those same people for petrol money every week so that you can use your car. In which case, they are perfectly entitled to express an opinion on how you look after it, or maybe even suggest that you sell it.

If they don't like how I run the car, they have the choice to stop giving me petrol money. It wouldn't be ideal but the car's still mine.

[Ozyhibby]

If they don't like how I run the car, they have the choice to stop giving me petrol money. It wouldn't be ideal but the car's still mine.

That's already happening here.
This is a way to change direction.

[NAE NOOKIE]

Of course. Buy Hibs was launched today and a few hours later the club issued an official statement welcoming the initiative. What moral right does anyone have to criticise STF for a perceived lack of response? Do people think that LD issued that statement entirely off her own bat?

I think criticism of STF for lack of information is historical and relates to his long term plan and what he wants for the club rather than any lack of response to the current situation, as we all appreciate its early days ..... the statement on the official site is already more response than we have had at this stage of any previous 'bid' and even better seems like a positive response.

If it is the case that STF is looking for a fan / community ownership model as the ultimate future of the club then I cant see why Buy Hibs and the club cant pool their resources and work together on this. If they did I would be filling in a standing order that very hour.

As for fans criticising the cubs owner. Show me a professional sports club anywhere in the world where the fans don't reserve that right. It goes with the territory when you own a pro sports club and it always will. If you think you can avoid that or should be immune to it you simply shouldn't be the owner of a football club.

[Peevemor]

I think criticism of STF for lack of information is historical and relates to his long term plan and what he wants for the club rather than any lack of response to the current situation, as we all appreciate its early days ..... the statement on the official site is already more response than we have had at this stage of any previous 'bid' and even better seems like a positive response.

If it is the case that STF is looking for a fan / community ownership model as the ultimate future of the club then I cant see why Buy Hibs and the club cant pool their resources and work together on this. If they did I would be filling in a standing order that very hour.

As for fans criticising the cubs owner. Show me a professional sports club anywhere in the world where the fans don't reserve that right. It goes with the territory when you own a pro sports club and it always will. If you think you can avoid that or should be immune to it you simply shouldn't be the owner of a football club.

Fair enough, but the criticism isn't only historical. In the past few months there has been more communication from within ER than I can remember, including yesterday afternoon's statement, yet people are still having a pop.

[Ozyhibby]

I think criticism of STF for lack of information is historical and relates to his long term plan and what he wants for the club rather than any lack of response to the current situation, as we all appreciate its early days ..... the statement on the official site is already more response than we have had at this stage of any previous 'bid' and even better seems like a positive response.

If it is the case that STF is looking for a fan / community ownership model as the ultimate future of the club then I cant see why Buy Hibs and the club cant pool their resources and work together on this. If they did I would be filling in a standing order that very hour.

As for fans criticising the cubs owner. Show me a professional sports club anywhere in the world where the fans don't reserve that right. It goes with the territory when you own a pro sports club and it always will. If you think you can avoid that or should be immune to it you simply shouldn't be the owner of a football club.

Get filling in now. We have to show the club we are serious. I think the club will welcome this and they will work together.
With no money coming out until a deal is done, you literally have nothing to lose.

[Ozyhibby]

SSN reporting the club have agreed to meet BuyHibs.
Good start.

[schinkenotto]

I wouldn't be getting unduly worried at this stage as it's clear that they are positioning themselves and testing what support is out there from the broader fan base which will also include business men and woman . We all know Sir Tom has made it clear he won't let Hibs change ownership unless it's a viable option on the table that can sustain the club going forward so nothing is going to change any time soon . I do sense that behind the scenes things could be being explored and there may be more of a willingness to look at new models /options , but who knows ,.the main thing for me at present is to ensure any off field speculation doesn't impact on the clear momentum we have been building on the park in the last few months .
Excellent balanced post.I would rather give the much needed improvement,which appears to starting at long last to be given a chance to progress without the undoubted disruption that some aspects of this latest effort will cause.It would be a disaster if LD,AS and others of the "new" brigade decided that the insecurity and destabilislation was not worth the effort.I'm all for further balanced respectful discussion on such an important issue,but the suggestion that STF is looking for a profit(although I think that RP may very well be) ,that "it's all about price" , the allegation in some quarters that he has been "milking" the club and some of the sarcastic comments in the statement will not help to facilitate matters.

[Thecat23]

If they don't like how I run the car, they have the choice to stop giving me petrol money. It wouldn't be ideal but the car's still mine.

If they stop giving you petrol money your car won't move and all the other cars will pass you by!! Then eventually the car is old and worthless and we all know were they take those cars don't we?!

I actually kind of get what your saying though. As much as I don't like it it's His club end of the day. Sadly if you look at attendances we are on our knees and I just wish he'd taken more an interest.

I hope he gets the offer he wants from somewhere down the line so we can then all move forward together. The proof that a lot of fans have had enough with the current owners are there for all to see at home games. I just want the club to do well and just can't see how that would happen under STF.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Thecat23]

I wouldn't be getting unduly worried at this stage as it's clear that they are positioning themselves and testing what support is out there from the broader fan base which will also include business men and woman . We all know Sir Tom has made it clear he won't let Hibs change ownership unless it's a viable option on the table that can sustain the club going forward so nothing is going to change any time soon . I do sense that behind the scenes things could be being explored and there may be more of a willingness to look at new models /options , but who knows ,.the main thing for me at present is to ensure any off field speculation doesn't impact on the clear momentum we have been building on the park in the last few months .

Good post. [emoji106]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[green&left]

Pledge done.

:flag:

[Ozyhibby]

BuyHibs have made it clear LD and GC's jobs are under no threat from their proposals, so there is no reason there should be a loss of momentum, if indeed that's what we have.

[Peevemor]

If they stop giving you petrol money your car won't move and all the other cars will pass you by!! Then eventually the car is old and worthless and we all know were they take those cars don't we?!

I actually kind of get what your saying though. As much as I don't like it it's His club end of the day. Sadly if you look at attendances we are on our knees and I just wish he'd taken more an interest.

I hope he gets the offer he wants from somewhere down the line so we can then all move forward together. The proof that a lot of fans have had enough with the current owners are there for all to see at home games. I just want the club to do well and just can't see how that would happen under STF.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That's the only point I've been making. People have been demanding that STF reveals his plans for the ownership of the club. Buy Hibs are very publicly putting pressure on him for a below valuation price as well as a level of debt forgiveness. HoH have been making all sorts of strange noises/accusations.

At the end of the day, STF holds ALL the cards and he'll do as he sees fit.

We all want what's best for Hibs. Maybe the Buy Hibs initiative is the answer (although they've yet to convince me), or possibly it's best if ownership stays in STF's family with them providing stability/clout for someone like Leeann Dempster to run the club?

Maybe the best way forward has yet to be presented? :dunno:

[Ozyhibby]

20+ years in and you still think Tom Farmer and Rod Petrie might be the answer?

[Peevemor]

20+ years in and you still think Tom Farmer and Rod Petrie might be the answer?

Tom Farmer may well be. For all we've gone through, financial backing has never been the problem.

However, I'm willing to be convinced otherwise.

[The Falcon]

Terrific, and can you tell me just how this is panning out?

We are still here. We are going through a low point on the football side but showing improvement. In my years of supporting and following Hibs this is pretty much typical. Oh how I wish it were not so.

We have had share issues and promoted fan involvement and shareholding in the past. Most of the current shareholders were given their shares by STF (long before Budge or Foundation of Hearts were shouting from the rooftops about doing the same) after the company in which we bought them ceased to be. Remember the advert where the guy comes of the bench in place of Steve Archibald? We lauded the signings of the like of Goram, Houchen and Archibald without even knowing who David Rowland was or how it was being funded.

We currently know who pays the bills if we come up short and rather than speaking about paying dividends (lunacy IMO) we should be ensuring that those responsible have similar financial muscle, because the only certainty in all this is that mistakes will be made and not everyone will be happy, whoever is in charge.

[WeeRussell]

20+ years in and you still think Tom Farmer and Rod Petrie might be the answer?

Who said anything about Rod Petrie?

They are only highlighting that a Fan Buy-out isn't necessarily all roses and rainbows and that perhaps the current ownership model, together with new guidance and management can progress us just as well, if not more successfully.

[Liberal Hibby]

Scotsman reports business people are waiting in the wings:

http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hibs/businessmen-ready-to-back-buyhibs-but-fans-must-get-on-board-1-3602030

Have to say Buyhibs is sounding more and more like an ego trip for Neil Wheelan. Any one see the contradiction in his statement:

“Debt is rising and rising, there’s no investment in the club, and everybody knows that change is needed. We need to find a positive change and we feel this is the only way to bring that. Fans have to take control of the club. It’s difficult, but it’s about being positive, open and transparent"

[Andy74]

The Evening News has a bit more from Wheelan. I think he has been listening to too many Hearts fans. He is coming out with many of the same lines they use about us.

Starting to talk about our budget being embarrassing and suggesting it could be increased by fans owning the club can't really be taken seriously.

[Cropley10]

We are still here. We are going through a low point on the football side but showing improvement. In my years of supporting and following Hibs this is pretty much typical. Oh how I wish it were not so.

We have had share issues and promoted fan involvement and shareholding in the past. Most of the current shareholders were given their shares by STF (long before Budge or Foundation of Hearts were shouting from the rooftops about doing the same) after the company in which we bought them ceased to be. Remember the advert where the guy comes of the bench in place of Steve Archibald? We lauded the signings of the like of Goram, Houchen and Archibald without even knowing who David Rowland was or how it was being funded.

We currently know who pays the bills if we come up short and rather than speaking about paying dividends (lunacy IMO) we should be ensuring that those responsible have similar financial muscle, because the only certainty in all this is that mistakes will be made and not everyone will be happy, whoever is in charge.

So, for STF to exit we need to find someone with deep pockets, prepared to gift Hibs money when needed, who at the same time won't look to take anything out of the Club, or get any return on the investment, or capital, provided to STF to become the new owner in the first place?

There is no other way, right?

[scoopyboy]

The Evening News has a bit more from Wheelan. I think he has been listening to too many Hearts fans. He is coming out with many of the same lines they use about us.

Starting to talk about our budget being embarrassing and suggesting it could be increased by fans owning the club can't really be taken seriously.

I won't take it seriously until I know who the businessmen behind the scenes are.

No reason to hide their identity IMO.

If and when they do I am 99% certain I will pledge but until then no chance.

[HIBERNIAN-0762]

I won't take it seriously until I know who the businessmen behind the scenes are.

No reason to hide their identity IMO.

If and when they do I am 99% certain I will pledge but until then no chance.

Agreed, exactly my thoughts on this as well, but I think it's possible that the new bidders have been asked by STF for confidentiality?

It's the Hibs way to keep all things quiet after all. :wink:

[Brightside]

BuyHibs have made it clear LD and GC's jobs are under no threat from their proposals, so there is no reason there should be a loss of momentum, if indeed that's what we have.

Not according to the Q&A. No jobs are safe.

[Brightside]

The Evening News has a bit more from Wheelan. I think he has been listening to too many Hearts fans. He is coming out with many of the same lines they use about us.

Starting to talk about our budget being embarrassing and suggesting it could be increased by fans owning the club can't really be taken seriously.

agree Andy. These guys are surely not going to run the club IF it goes through. There is nothing to suggest they have the ability to run a large company.

[Ozyhibby]

agree Andy. These guys are surely not going to run the club IF it goes through. There is nothing to suggest they have the ability to run a large company.

None of the guys who started FoH are on the board at Hearts.
I don't think they are suggesting Pat Stanton becomes chairman.

[Ozyhibby]

Who said anything about Rod Petrie?

They are only highlighting that a Fan Buy-out isn't necessarily all roses and rainbows and that perhaps the current ownership model, together with new guidance and management can progress us just as well, if not more successfully.

Rod Petrie comes with Tom Farmer. It's a package. You back one, you get the other.

[CropleyWasGod]

None of the guys who started FoH are on the board at Hearts.
I don't think they are suggesting Pat Stanton becomes chairman.

Kevin Windram has been with FOH for over 3 years. Not sure if he was in there from the start, though.

[superfurryhibby]

We are still here. We are going through a low point on the football side but showing improvement. In my years of supporting and following Hibs this is pretty much typical. Oh how I wish it were not so.

We have had share issues and promoted fan involvement and shareholding in the past. Most of the current shareholders were given their shares by STF (long before Budge or Foundation of Hearts were shouting from the rooftops about doing the same) after the company in which we bought them ceased to be. Remember the advert where the guy comes of the bench in place of Steve Archibald? We lauded the signings of the like of Goram, Houchen and Archibald without even knowing who David Rowland was or how it was being funded.
We currently know who pays the bills if we come up short and rather than speaking about paying dividends (lunacy IMO) we should be ensuring that those responsible have similar financial muscle, because the only certainty in all this is that mistakes will be made and not everyone will be happy, whoever is in charge.

It wasn't investment in players that ruined Hibs in the era of Duff and Gray, it was the sypthoning of club money into deals to buy hotel chains and pubs in the south of England that did it.I also thought that the minortiy shareholders owned shares because they invested in Duff andf Gray's finance raising and that STF made a token gesture by way of acknowledging their committment to the club at that time?

I'm baffled by people talking about STF's family continuing ownership. On what basis is this speculation made? Does he have family, are they business oriented and interested in still owning Hibs?

Change is needed, the club is lacking leadership and that starts with the owner. STF has done his bit, regardless of how little or how much money he has invested in or taken from Hibs. We need new impetus and it would be wise for Hibs to give fans a role in how the club operates. Many previously committed fans have disengaged from the club in recent years. The writing was on the wall for at least two season before we were relegated and we were unable to prevent it. Change is needed now, the alternative is a continuing downward spiral.

[RIP]

I won't take it seriously until I know who the businessmen behind the scenes are.

No reason to hide their identity IMO.

If and when they do I am 99% certain I will pledge but until then no chance.

I would think that many of us are in the same boat Scoop

If I remember correctly when Paul and Neil attended the meeting at the Hibs club there were a lot of potential investors in the room. I recognised about half a dozen well known Hibs-supporting Edinburgh businessmen who are capable of investing in the club. I would think it possible to raise up to a seven figure sum through that channel.

However if I were in their shoes I would want to see hard evidence that there is a well organised campaign team in place and a clear show of supporter demand for community ownership before I would want my name and that of my business associated with this venture. So as to the bit in bold I reckon there is every reason in the world why business investors should hold back from public backing at this stage.

No supporter mandate - no investment

As for the Buyhibs.org campaign team, I hope we can avoid the temptation to make personal attacks on them? Dawn, Andrew, Pat, Dougie, Ashley, Paul and Neil have been brave enough to put their heads above the parapet and sacrifice a lot of family time to the cause. Whilst it's our duty to go over their plans with a fine toothcomb, point out flaws and ask questions, surely we can do so without resorting to character assasination? We all have our clubs best interests at heart even if we disagree on how to achieve success.

GGTTH :flag:

[Golden Bear]

Not according to the Q&A. No jobs are safe.



Please see the below:

"Just to clarify our position re Leanne and George, we are not calling for them to be removed and do not hold them accountable for our precious woes and we are keen to see what they can bring to Hibernian. There is no vendetta against anyone and no witchhunt and all we want it the best for the club. Our apologies for the confusion around this point and accept we do not have all the answers now and there is a lot of work to do".


An update on their position was posted last night.

[Brightside]

Please see the below:

"Just to clarify our position re Leanne and George, we are not calling for them to be removed and do not hold them accountable for our precious woes and we are keen to see what they can bring to Hibernian. There is no vendetta against anyone and no witchhunt and all we want it the best for the club. Our apologies for the confusion around this point and accept we do not have all the answers now and there is a lot of work to do".


An update on their position was posted last night.

Nice U-Turn from them. :wink:

[Lmc2105]

I would think that many of us are in the same boat Scoop

If I remember correctly when Paul and Neil attended the meeting at the Hibs club there were a lot of potential investors in the room. I recognised about half a dozen well known Hibs-supporting Edinburgh businessmen who are capable of investing in the club. I would think it possible to raise up to a seven figure sum through that channel.

However if I were in their shoes I would want to see hard evidence that there is a well organised campaign team in place and a clear show of supporter demand for community ownership before I would want my name and that of my business associated with this venture. So as to the bit in bold I reckon there is every reason in the world why business investors should hold back from public backing at this stage.

No supporter mandate - no investment

As for the Buyhibs.org campaign team, I hope we can avoid the temptation to make personal attacks on them? Dawn, Andrew, Pat, Dougie, Ashley, Paul and Neil have been brave enough to put their heads above the parapet and sacrifice a lot of family time to the cause. Whilst it's our duty to go over their plans with a fine toothcomb, point out flaws and ask questions, surely we can do so without resorting to character assasination? We all have our clubs best interests at heart even if we disagree on how to achieve success.

GGTTH :flag:



Couldn't agree more with this, a lot of time and effort has been spent to build this campaign and has been in the making for months. The fact that the directors have come out and not hide is great.

We understand that a lot of fans are going to have questions about this and we hope to set up some Q&A's in the coming days-weeks

But as Neil has stated in the paper talks have been held with potential investors and they await to see how fans react to the news.

Social Media has been going crazy and we are getting more and more questions on our website which we are trying to get through hard work but is great for us.

We hope to have more news in the coming days

[Ozyhibby]

Kevin Windram has been with FOH for over 3 years. Not sure if he was in there from the start, though.

You get my point though? Just because these guys have started BuyHibs does not mean they will be running Hibs. That will be up to us.

[CropleyWasGod]

You get my point though? Just because these guys have started BuyHibs does not mean they will be running Hibs. That will be up to us.

Of course I do. In fact, I'm pretty sure that they do state that somewhere in their Q & A.

[scoopyboy]

I would think that many of us are in the same boat Scoop

If I remember correctly when Paul and Neil attended the meeting at the Hibs club there were a lot of potential investors in the room. I recognised about half a dozen well known Hibs-supporting Edinburgh businessmen who are capable of investing in the club. I would think it possible to raise up to a seven figure sum through that channel.

However if I were in their shoes I would want to see hard evidence that there is a well organised campaign team in place and a clear show of supporter demand for community ownership before I would want my name and that of my business associated with this venture. So as to the bit in bold I reckon there is every reason in the world why business investors should hold back from public backing at this stage.

No supporter mandate - no investment

As for the Buyhibs.org campaign team, I hope we can avoid the temptation to make personal attacks on them? Dawn, Andrew, Pat, Dougie, Ashley, Paul and Neil have been brave enough to put their heads above the parapet and sacrifice a lot of family time to the cause. Whilst it's our duty to go over their plans with a fine toothcomb, point out flaws and ask questions, surely we can do so without resorting to character assasination? We all have our clubs best interests at heart even if we disagree on how to achieve success.

GGTTH :flag:

Thanks for the response, a well thought out one as well.

I see where you are coming from but I would still like to have the identities made public (only with their prior agreement of course).

I may be wrong but I feel the vast majority of Hibs fans won't pledge until that info is made known.

The last thing IMO we want is a stand off between investors and supporters pledging, that would benefit nobody and could see the venture collapse.

Regarding personal attacks, there will ne none from me. I appreciate people giving up time for the cause and whether I agree with them or not it will not come to that, I reckon others will be of the same ilk.

[Andy74]

You get my point though? Just because these guys have started BuyHibs does not mean they will be running Hibs. That will be up to us.

Why are they clarifying anything about the current leadership then? It's nothing to do with them surely?

[Ozyhibby]

Thanks for the response, a well thought out one as well.

I see where you are coming from but I would still like to have the identities made public (only with their prior agreement of course).

I may be wrong but I feel the vast majority of Hibs fans won't pledge until that info is made known.

The last thing IMO we want is a stand off between investors and supporters pledging, that would benefit nobody and could see the venture collapse.

Regarding personal attacks, there will ne none from me. I appreciate people giving up time for the cause and whether I agree with them or not it will not come to that, I reckon others will be of the same ilk.

There is nothing to lose from pledging now. You can cancel at a later date if you don't like the direction of travel before a single penny has left your account.
To make this work we need people to indicate if this is something you would be interested in. That's all.

[Velma Dinkley]

Wheelan doesn't come across as someone who has the level of honesty and prefessionalism I would expect from anyone who could potentially be involved in the running of Hibs. In any case, surely everyone can see the positive changes that have been happening at the club. It's remarkable that people are demanding change when so many good things are already happening. And so many of us are actually enjoying watching the football again.

I have to say, there seem to be quite a few people who would have you believe Tom Farmer isn't interested in our club. Having spoken to a member of his family I can tell you that he loves Hibs. He's not a big football fan but he cares tremendously about our club, and him and his family have been very upset by the rediculous mudslinging that's been going on since the summer.

[Golden Bear]

How does Community ownership fit into the SFA's "fit & proper" person criteria? I also presume that all our potential investors will require to be vetted as follows:-


The rules regarding the “fit and proper” person test are contained in the SFA Articles of Association. They state at Article 10.2 :-

…The Board must be satisfied that any such person is fit and proper to hold such position within Association football. The Board hereby reserves its discretion as to whether or not such a person is fit and proper, as aforesaid, after due consideration of all relevant facts which the Board has in its possession and knowledge, including the undernoted list which is acknowledged to be illustrative and not exhaustive:-



(a) he is bankrupt or has made any arrangement or composition with his creditors generally;

(b) he is of unsound mind and has been or is to be admitted to hospital as suffering from a mental disorder following an application for admission for treatment under the Mental Health (Scotland) Act 1984 or Mental Health Act 1983 or a Court having jurisdiction in the United Kingdom or elsewhere has ordered in matters relating to mental disorder his detention or the appointment of a curator bonis or any other person to exercise power with regard to his property or affairs;

(c) he is under or is pending suspension imposed or confirmed by the Scottish FA;

(d) he is listed in the Official Return of another club in full membership or associate membership;

(e) he is currently participating as a player of another member club or referee in Association football;

(f) he is the subject of an endorsed Disclosure from Disclosure Scotland;

(g) he has been disqualified as a director pursuant to the Company Directors’ Disqualification Act 1986 within the previous five years;

(h) he has been convicted within the last 10 years of (i) an offence liable to imprisonment of two years or more, (ii) corruption or (iii) fraud;

(i) he has been suspended or expelled by a National Association from involvement on the administration of a club;

(j) he has been a director of a club in membership of any National Association within the 5-year period preceding such club having undergone an insolvency event;

(k) he is currently under or is pending suspension imposed by or confirmed by the Scottish FA in accordance with the Anti-Doping Charter.

Jeez - :greengrin

[schinkenotto]

Scotsman reports business people are waiting in the wings:

http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hibs/businessmen-ready-to-back-buyhibs-but-fans-must-get-on-board-1-3602030

Have to say Buyhibs is sounding more and more like an ego trip for Neil Wheelan. Any one see the contradiction in his statement:

“Debt is rising and rising, there’s no investment in the club, and everybody knows that change is needed. We need to find a positive change and we feel this is the only way to bring that. Fans have to take control of the club. It’s difficult, but it’s about being positive, open and transparent"

"Businessmen" is a term,which can cover a multitude of characters, occupations and financial strength,so there's still not much clarity.The EN article is a peculiar mixture of insults,pie-in-the sky and illogicality.

[BuyHibs]

Update from Buyhibs re pledges

All we are seeking at this moment is for fans to pledge their support. No money will be taken until a deal has been agreed and at that point all pledgers will be advised when money will be taken.

www.BuyHibs.org
Facebook - BuyHibs
Twitter @BuyHibs

[California-Hibs]

This is big news folks, and exciting news at that. If the businessmen mentioned come out and state who they are snd confirm that they're indeed going to put money into the BuyHibs Campaign then I will definitely pledge!

We've wanted Petrie out for a long time. This is our chance!!!

Hopefully the talks go well with Sir Tom and all the fans come together to buy OUR team!

Let's take control folks. Don't be scared. Positivity and courage for a change.

Let's wait and see. As I say though, exciting times indeed.

[schinkenotto]

Wheelan doesn't come across as someone who has the level of honesty and prefessionalism I would expect from anyone who could potentially be involved in the running of Hibs. In any case, surely everyone can see the positive changes that have been happening at the club. It's remarkable that people are demanding change when so many good things are already happening. And so many of us are actually enjoying watching the football again.

I have to say, there seem to be quite a few people who would have you believe Tom Farmer isn't interested in our club. Having spoken to a member of his family I can tell you that he loves Hibs. He's not a big football fan but he cares tremendously about our club, and him and his family have been very upset by the rediculous mudslinging that's been going on since the summer.

http://www.hibs.net/images/smilies/top%20marks.gif

[southsider]

STF may own the bricks and mortar but the very soul of the club, our history and our future was, is and forever will be owned by us, the fans.

[California-Hibs]

Wheelan doesn't come across as someone who has the level of honesty and prefessionalism I would expect from anyone who could potentially be involved in the running of Hibs. In any case, surely everyone can see the positive changes that have been happening at the club. It's remarkable that people are demanding change when so many good things are already happening. And so many of us are actually enjoying watching the football again.

I have to say, there seem to be quite a few people who would have you believe Tom Farmer isn't interested in our club. Having spoken to a member of his family I can tell you that he loves Hibs. He's not a big football fan but he cares tremendously about our club, and him and his family have been very upset by the rediculous mudslinging that's been going on since the summer.

Hear what your saying, but if he was that upset he could easily defuse the situation by actually coming out PUBLICLY and stating his love for Hibs. His quite as a church mouse zero talking approach does him no favors whatsoever.

So, sorry, but I'm not really buying into this whole 'deep love for Hibs' no nonsence. We're just a business to him IMO.

[JimBHibees]

Wheelan doesn't come across as someone who has the level of honesty and prefessionalism I would expect from anyone who could potentially be involved in the running of Hibs. In any case, surely everyone can see the positive changes that have been happening at the club. It's remarkable that people are demanding change when so many good things are already happening. And so many of us are actually enjoying watching the football again.

I have to say, there seem to be quite a few people who would have you believe Tom Farmer isn't interested in our club. Having spoken to a member of his family I can tell you that he loves Hibs. He's not a big football fan but he cares tremendously about our club, and him and his family have been very upset by the rediculous mudslinging that's been going on since the summer.

Why do you say that?

[BuyHibs]

Update from Buyhibs re pledges

All we are seeking at this moment is for fans to pledge their support. No money will be taken until a deal has been agreed and at that point all pledgers will be advised when money will be taken.

www.BuyHibs.org
Facebook - BuyHibs
Twitter @BuyHibs

[Ozyhibby]

This is big news folks, and exciting news at that. If the businessmen mentioned come out and state who they are snd confirm that they're indeed going to put money into the BuyHibs Campaign then I will definitely pledge!

We've wanted Petrie out for a long time. This is our chance!!!

Hopefully the talks go well with Sir Tom and all the fans come together to buy OUR team!

Let's take control folks. Don't be scared. Positivity and courage for a change.

Let's wait and see. As I say though, exciting times indeed.

You need to pledge now. It won't cost you a penny until the deal is done.
Your right, this is our chance for change.

[Heedersnvolleys]

Update from Buyhibs re pledges

All we are seeking at this moment is for fans to pledge their support. No money will be taken until a deal has been agreed and at that point all pledgers will be advised when money will be taken.

www.BuyHibs.org (http://www.BuyHibs.org)
Facebook - BuyHibs
Twitter @BuyHibs
That sounds a bit finger in the air stuff to me. Say you get X amount pledged, you agree a deal with the club on the strength of X but 30% of the supporters don't like your deal you have struck and withdraw there pledge what do you do then?

[Velma Dinkley]

Hear what your saying, but if he was that upset he could easily defuse the situation by actually coming out PUBLICLY and stating his love for Hibs. His quite as a church mouse zero talking approach does him no favors whatsoever.

So, sorry, but I'm not really buying into this whole 'deep love for Hibs' no nonsence. We're just a business to him IMO.

It's certainly not nonsence. He is businessman, though. He's professional and dealing with all this in the way you'd expect from an experienced business person. Leeann Dempster is paid to run the club and she's had plenty to say about the club and how it's developing.

[Keith_M]

Like all Branches, we were only notified late yesterday about this meeting. The fact that we were able to muster from the membership over half the number of Hibs Fans there, is testament to our ability to mobilise our members at very short notice, through our website, e-mails & mobile phone numbers etc. For your information, member Ross produced the following:

Around 30 supporters gathered at the Hibernian Supporters Association Club , Neil Whellan, Pat Stanton, Paul Kane and Andrew Sibley face camera crews from STV, BBC, Sky Sports and reporters from most of the press . A short video was then played for all to watch on a screen with various images representing Hibernian Football Club.

NW then spoke and said they had come together after meeting with various groups of Hibernian Supporters and also Supporters Direct. Their aim was to start a positive move forward, to safeguard and protect the Club. The debt is estimated between £6-9m – an unhealthy position. The current position of the football team was deemed unacceptable. They are looking for fresh investment into the football club and a letter had been delivered to Sir Tom Farmer earlier that morning.

PK and PS then spoke and expressed their disappointment in the Club and League position. PS said that the warning signs had been there for years, yet the current Board seemed unaware for this. A specific mention of Leigh Griffiths saving us the season before. They were also disappointed that the AGM had been delayed this year and they were unaware of the reasons why. PK went on to mention that were have a relatively young fan base and that a lot of supporters over the age of thirty five had drifted away of the past decade. He said it was pivotal to get these supporters, those particularly who do not attend games, on side.

Various phrases such as ‘positive change’, ‘uniting together’ and ‘moving forward’ became a theme throughout the statement.

PK went on to speak about ‘Forever Hibernian’ where 2,000 supporters united at a rally demanding the removal of Rod Petrie from our football club. This number grew to 4,000 when a survey was released by Forever Hibernian asking for further input from the supporters. PK stated that we have ‘no white knight’ and that the money can only come from the Supporters.

A Community Trust business vehicle has been created to allow STF to consider selling the club. It was stated that various, potential new owners had come and been deemed ‘not worthy’ by STF. It was then mentioned that if the fans are not worthy enough of taking over ownership of the club, who is? The vehicle itself is something STF expressed interest in many years ago and would allow him to have a lasting, positive legacy at the club. He mentioned that whilst supporters do not always share or have the same opinions, we are all united with one common goal – ensuring Hibernian Football Club is a success. Fans will dictate the change, not those communicating who are merely the face of the campaign. They want to understand STF price for the club along with the principles he wants in place. Assets must stay together. Club, Ground and Training Centre come as one. It was then mentioned that if the supporters get behind this model, STF could not afford to ignore it and must enter dialogue with the group.

AS said they have various experts on board already with Corporate Advisers, Legal Advisers, Marketing Experts, Financial Advisers and Commercial Experts.The model was described as taking the best from previous models used at Portsmouth, Motherwell and Dunfermline, with one important positive being that we are not in Administration. Time has been spent with these clubs understanding their models. We would be the first club in Scotland to use this model. There are business people who will invest in the UK and from overseas, all Hibs Supporters. The company has been set up with six directors and that interim directors were currently in place. It was apparent that a membership scheme was at the front of this model, with investors (also Supporters) ‘waiting in the wings’ if the support can unite together

Ross


Thanks for the info.

:thumbsup:

[Benny Brazil]

Update from Buyhibs re pledges

All we are seeking at this moment is for fans to pledge their support. No money will be taken until a deal has been agreed and at that point all pledgers will be advised when money will be taken.

www.BuyHibs.org
Facebook - BuyHibs
Twitter @BuyHibs

If thats the case - then after signing up why are emails being sent saying the first payment will be taken on or around the 20th November 2014?
My daughter just signed up and received an email saying this.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

There is nothing to lose from pledging now. You can cancel at a later date if you don't like the direction of travel before a single penny has left your account.
To make this work we need people to indicate if this is something you would be interested in. That's all.

I completely disagree. By pledging now, you could be endorsing something that turns out to be a disaster, or endorsing a group of absolute shysters or incompetents. We don't know yet.

This is the future of the club, and I for one am not going to invest in, nor endorse something that I know very little about, run by people that I know nothing about. Make no mistake, it is absolutely, 100% incumbent upon this group (or any other group or investor) to convince us as fans, to make us want to be part of it. At the moment they are a long way from having done this (admittedly very early days, but not a great start in my view).

This isn't Hearts, and frankly they are not the only game in town. They are in effect competing with someone who has made mistakes, but who is financially rock solid and committed. That shouldn't be cast away on a bit of mediocre PR and spin, and a 'desire for change'. I want change, but I have seen enough of football to realise that change at clubs is as likely to be negative as it is positive.

We are right as a support to be sceptical, we should be sceptical. And what's more, BuyHibs should welcome and encourage that scepticism.

[jacomo]

This is big news folks, and exciting news at that. If the businessmen mentioned come out and state who they are snd confirm that they're indeed going to put money into the BuyHibs Campaign then I will definitely pledge!

We've wanted Petrie out for a long time. This is our chance!!!

Hopefully the talks go well with Sir Tom and all the fans come together to buy OUR team!

Let's take control folks. Don't be scared. Positivity and courage for a change.

Let's wait and see. As I say though, exciting times indeed.

Under the BuyHibs proposal, STF would still own a quarter of the club, and would still have a big influence. No guarantee that Petrie would go.

[JimBHibees]

I completely disagree. By pledging now, you could be endorsing something that turns out to be a disaster, or endorsing a group of absolute shysters or incompetents. We don't know yet.

This is the future of the club, and I for one am not going to invest in, nor endorse something that I know very little about, run by people that I know nothing about. Make no mistake, it is absolutely, 100% incumbent upon this group (or any other group or investor) to convince us as fans, to make us want to be part of it. At the moment they are a long way from having done this (admittedly very early days, but not a great start in my view).

This isn't Hearts, and frankly they are not the only game in town. They are in effect competing with someone who has made mistakes, but who is financially rock solid and committed. That shouldn't be cast away on a bit of mediocre PR and spin, and a 'desire for change'. I want change, but I have seen enough of football to realise that change at clubs is as likely to be negative as it is positive.

We are right as a support to be sceptical, we should be sceptical. And what's more, BuyHibs should welcome and encourage that scepticism.

Totally agree. I dont this group's constant reference to the Hearts model helps as the situations are totally different.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

Update from Buyhibs re pledges

All we are seeking at this moment is for fans to pledge their support. No money will be taken until a deal has been agreed and at that point all pledgers will be advised when money will be taken.

www.BuyHibs.org
Facebook - BuyHibs
Twitter @BuyHibs


That's not good enough. You are seeking endorsement on a very flimsy and unclear proposition. Its not reasonable to expect that.

Emotional blackmail tells me that substance is lacking. Your proposition should be judged on its substance, not on tapping into fans disgruntlement.

[VivaHiberña]

Hear what your saying, but if he was that upset he could easily defuse the situation by actually coming out PUBLICLY and stating his love for Hibs. His quite as a church mouse zero talking approach does him no favors whatsoever.

So, sorry, but I'm not really buying into this whole 'deep love for Hibs' no nonsence. We're just a business to him IMO.

A business that he makes no money from? He wouldn't be a particularly good businessman if that were his modus operandi. He may not be "Mr Hibs" but it's clear enough that he's not interested in making a profit from the club. I have no doubt that STF only has the best interests of the cub at heart, otherwise he would have sold up and cut his losses some time ago.

[blackpoolhibs]

We are still here. We are going through a low point on the football side but showing improvement. In my years of supporting and following Hibs this is pretty much typical. Oh how I wish it were not so.

We have had share issues and promoted fan involvement and shareholding in the past. Most of the current shareholders were given their shares by STF (long before Budge or Foundation of Hearts were shouting from the rooftops about doing the same) after the company in which we bought them ceased to be. Remember the advert where the guy comes of the bench in place of Steve Archibald? We lauded the signings of the like of Goram, Houchen and Archibald without even knowing who David Rowland was or how it was being funded.

We currently know who pays the bills if we come up short and rather than speaking about paying dividends (lunacy IMO) we should be ensuring that those responsible have similar financial muscle, because the only certainty in all this is that mistakes will be made and not everyone will be happy, whoever is in charge.

Which is probably the reason we are where we are today, many people are sick to death of the club just existing. As for the improvement, i will start thinking things are better when or if we start competing at the right end of the top division in Scotland.

I dont believe this club should be getting any credit at all for being 4th in the Championship.

[Keith_M]

BuyHibs have made it clear LD and GC's jobs are under no threat from their proposals, so there is no reason there should be a loss of momentum, if indeed that's what we have.

Good to hear.

I previously stated that if they were considering dumping Dempster, then I wouldn't be happy with this bid. Glad it's been clarified that it's not the case (though the web-site was previously ambiguous on the subject).

[scoopyboy]

You need to pledge now. It won't cost you a penny until the deal is done.
Your right, this is our chance for change.

What you are suggesting is simply wrong.

No one should pledge IMO unless they plan to stump up irrespective.

By pledging but are undecided is simply giving the organisers false figures to work with.

[southsider]

I wan this to work and will put money into it but I will not pledge as that means giving out my bank a/c number. I would be prepared to pay in a lump sum, say £300, once a year.Would that work ?

[HibbyDave]

My simple opinion.....

Be careful what you wish for.

It was not long ago most were laughing at the model for The Foundation OF Hearts based on potential problems with DD cancelations over xmas etc etc. So far they have not "Lost" many DD's according to the press. Also, they are flying high in the league at the moment, lets see in another few months.

There was a recent discussion at HWU attended by Leeann and Budgie,about the models for fan ownership I think the considered outcome was that it is most likely to prove unworkable in the long term.

[California-Hibs]

What you are suggesting is simply wrong.

No one should pledge IMO unless they plan to stump up irrespective.

By pledging but are undecided is simply giving the organisers false figures to work with.

Yep, like I said, I'll pledge only when the said businessmen come forward and state that they are investing along with the fans. Nothing till then, but I hope it transpires.

[GreenLake]

Totally agree. I dont this group's constant reference to the Hearts model helps as the situations are totally different.

I'm not keen on that line of thinking either and I assume even the Yams are being sarcastic while they sing:

"Follow the Hearts and you can't go wrong."

[Ozyhibby]

What you are suggesting is simply wrong.

No one should pledge IMO unless they plan to stump up irrespective.

By pledging but are undecided is simply giving the organisers false figures to work with.

Only pledge what you are willing to pay if BuyHibs are the real deal. It's up to BuyHibs to start convincing you and Tom Farmer they are. They won't take a penny until they have done so.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

Only pledge what you are willing to pay if BuyHibs are the real deal. It's up to BuyHibs to start convincing you and Tom Farmer they are. They won't take a penny until they have done so.

So why pledge until they have done so?

They (and you) are putting the cart before the horse.

[Ozyhibby]

So why pledge until they have done so?

They (and you) are putting the cart before the horse.

Your letting them know that if they get it right then you would be happy to back them and say goodbye to Rod Petrie.

[scoopyboy]

Only pledge what you are willing to pay if BuyHibs are the real deal. It's up to BuyHibs to start convincing you and Tom Farmer they are. They won't take a penny until they have done so.

I understand that but what I am saying is the last thing anybody needs is people pledging who have no intention of seeing it through.

[marinello59]

Update from Buyhibs re pledges

All we are seeking at this moment is for fans to pledge their support. No money will be taken until a deal has been agreed and at that point all pledgers will be advised when money will be taken.

www.BuyHibs.org
Facebook - BuyHibs
Twitter @BuyHibs

But you ARE asking people to pledge money. If it's simply support being pledged then this would be just another survey wouldn't it?

[Heedersnvolleys]

I understand that but what I am saying is the last thing anybody needs is people pledging who have no intention of seeing it through.
As well as trying to strike a deal with STF with what is essentially a fantasy figure unless one of the said businessmen is will to underright shortfall of predicted pledge to actual pledge total.

[Ozyhibby]

I understand that but what I am saying is the last thing anybody needs is people pledging who have no intention of seeing it through.

Sorry, yes, absolutely people should only pledge an amount they are willing and can comfortably afford to pay to secure change at the club.

[RIP]

I have to say, there seem to be quite a few people who would have you believe Tom Farmer isn't interested in our club. Having spoken to a member of his family I can tell you that he loves Hibs. He's not a big football fan but he cares tremendously about our club, and him and his family have been very upset by the rediculous mudslinging that's been going on since the summer.

:top marks

At an earlier fans meeting Kenny McLean latterly of Forever Hibernian told us a story about meeting Sir Tom Farmer during the Final against Hearts. Tom had his whole extended family at the game and he looked as sick and dejected as any fan. I've heard from a number of equally reliable sources that he cares deeply for Hibernian and our history and that he has spoken to David Murray about his regrets in selling Rangers to the shyster Craig Whyte. To make sure that doesn't happen all prospective bidders are being put through due diligence from Tom's lawyers, accountants and further scrutiny by David Glen of Price Waterhouse Coopers, the foremost expert on Scottish Football Finances.



Wheelan doesn't come across as someone who has the level of honesty and prefessionalism I would expect from anyone who could potentially be involved in the running of Hibs.

Cilla - can you please stop and think before making such defamatory statements. Do you know Neil personally or anything about his professional reputation?

Is it not a bit mean to hide behind an online user name in order to post damaging attacks questioning someone's professionalism and honesty, let alone a fellow Hibby? I'm sure we can challenge the validity of information and arguments or pose questions at public meetings without this type of personal attack - can't we?

[Islington Hibs]

Page 14 of this thread. I have skim read a good few comments. On this sample people seem pretty sceptical?

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

Your letting them know that if they get it right then you would be happy to back them and say goodbye to Rod Petrie.


But you're not only doing that are you, you are endorsing them and giving them your mandate to go and negotiate with the club on your behalf.

Lets face it, they don't need 'pledges' to be sure of support if the deal the propose is right. If it is, people will obviously back it.

[Golden Bear]

Sorry, yes, absolutely people should only pledge an amount they are willing and can comfortably afford to pay to secure change at the club.

And can continue to pay indefinitely.

I've never been a fan of the "direct debit" method of funding the Club as it must make budgetary planning an absolute nightmare. There are so many variables in each fan's personal life (lives) and one of the first things to be hit in the event of a change of circumstance will inevitably be the direct debit to HFC.

[Ozyhibby]

And can continue to pay indefinitely.

I've never been a fan of the "direct debit" method of funding the Club as it must make budgetary planning an absolute nightmare. There are so many variables in each fan's personal life (lives) and one of the first things to be hit in the event of a change of circumstance will inevitably be the direct debit to HFC.

This is not the source of funding the club. The club will continue to be funded from revenues it generates.
This is a method of funding the purchase of the club.
It does not need to be indefinitely.

[Golden Bear]

This is not the source of funding the club. The club will continue to be funded from revenues it generates.
This is a method of funding the purchase of the club.
It does not need to be indefinitely.

Not according to Neil Wheelan:-


"I would appeal for a fair and realistic price so we can use part of the money to give the manager a better budget. The current budget is not enough, and it’s embarrassing for a club of our size.”

[Velma Dinkley]

:top marks

At an earlier fans meeting Kenny McLean latterly of Forever Hibernian told us a story about meeting Sir Tom Farmer during the Final against Hearts. Tom had his whole extended family at the game and he looked as sick and dejected as any fan. I've heard from a number of equally reliable sources that he cares deeply for Hibernian and our history and that he has spoken to David Murray about his regrets in selling Rangers to the shyster Craig Whyte. To make sure that doesn't happen all prospective bidders are being put through due diligence from Tom's lawyers, accountants and further scrutiny by David Glen of Price Waterhouse Coopers, the foremost expert on Scottish Football Finances.




Cilla - can you please stop and think before making such defamatory statements. Do you know Neil personally or anything about his professional reputation?

Is it not a bit mean to hide behind an online user name in order to post damaging attacks questioning someone's professionalism and honesty, let alone a fellow Hibby? I'm sure we can challenge the validity of information and arguments or pose questions at public meetings without this type of personal attack - can't we?

I was deliberately not trying to make it a personal attack or be defamatory. Interestingly, my statement was mainly based on him hiding behind a user name and slagging off Leenn Dempster. This is far from what I would expect from anyone involved in a takeover of our club. I appreciate everyone has their own standards and expectations, though.

[Ozyhibby]

Not according to Neil Wheelan:-


"I would appeal for a fair and realistic price so we can use part of the money to give the manager a better budget. The current budget is not enough, and it’s embarrassing for a club of our size.”

He ids saying if there is spare cash left over then it could be used for the team.
It's not what the money is for and would be a bonus.

[greenlex]

Not according to Neil Wheelan:-


"I would appeal for a fair and realistic price so we can use part of the money to give the manager a better budget. The current budget is not enough, and it’s embarrassing for a club of our size.” Theres not many folk know what our playing budget is. Well done to him.

[Golden Bear]

He ids saying if there is spare cash left over then it could be used for the team.
It's not what the money is for and would be a bonus.

That's not my interpretation and the establishment of a direct debit scheme suggests to me that this is not a "one off" method of funding the purchase of the club but also a method of providing ongoing revenue.

[Andy74]

He ids saying if there is spare cash left over then it could be used for the team.
It's not what the money is for and would be a bonus.

Seems fairly flimsy as a funding plan goes.

Neil is the one who works for a financial advisor yes?

[H18Y GW]

Not according to Neil Wheelan:-


"I would appeal for a fair and realistic price so we can use part of the money to give the manager a better budget. The current budget is not enough, and it’s embarrassing for a club of our size.”

Ginger judas Pricks budget (fab thou it was) written all over a statement like that,the club is running a loss,we can help change it,but lets walk before we try to run...

Lets get back with a team and a club that is progressing, not putting all the money into 2 year short fix mercenaries which we have lately,not delighted at the start we had but shiy off the pitch wont help on it this year or could even damage next as there wont be investment in a club thats going to be sold..

Vicious circle ? possibly..So lets do it right..

[Ozyhibby]

[/COLOR]Ginger judas Pricks budget (fab thou it was) written all over a statement like that,the club is running a loss,we can help change it,but lets walk before we try to run...

Lets get back with a team and a club that is progressing, not putting all the money into 2 year short fix mercenaries which we have lately,not delighted at the start we had but shiy off the pitch wont help on it this year or could even damage next as there wont be investment in a club thats going to be sold..

Vicious circle ? possibly..So lets do it right..

Rod Petrie just needs more time?

[Pete]

Rod Petrie just needs more time?

Maybe Dempster does within the current set up.

Why the **** does all this appear the minute we're getting our act together?

[silverhibee]

Wheelan doesn't come across as someone who has the level of honesty and prefessionalism I would expect from anyone who could potentially be involved in the running of Hibs. In any case, surely everyone can see the positive changes that have been happening at the club. It's remarkable that people are demanding change when so many good things are already happening. And so many of us are actually enjoying watching the football again.

I have to say, there seem to be quite a few people who would have you believe Tom Farmer isn't interested in our club. Having spoken to a member of his family I can tell you that he loves Hibs. He's not a big football fan but he cares tremendously about our club, and him and his family have been very upset by the rediculous mudslinging that's been going on since the summer.

And yet he has let it get to the position that we are in the Championship playing our football, if he loves Hibs he would have sacked Petrie in the summer, it's a business he is running with over 7000 customers and the biggest majority aren't happy with the man he has left to run the club who is Rod Petrie, or does he find it acceptable that the club he loves is in such a mess that he still thinks it is a good idea to have Petrie any where near our club, his man he has put in charge has probably cost the club millions of pounds in the failures he has brought to the club, Butcher & co must have cost us over £1m alone in getting them and then putting them on garden leave 6 months later, if STF love's Hibs that much he would have removed Petrie after the Calderwood fiasco.

[H18Y GW]

Rod Petrie just needs more time?


So does David Cameron:rolleyes:,dont like the bleating this guy does, just as i didnt like Salmonds........Take from that what you will:aok:

[H18Y GW]

Maybe Dempster does within the current set up.

Why the **** does all this appear the minute we're getting our act together?


My thoughts,the oust Rod Petrie campaign is losing face to the league campaign.......Better fix that:thumbsup:

[DC_Hibs]

My thoughts,the oust Rod Petrie campaign is losing face to the league campaign.......Better fix that:thumbsup:

Home game against QoTS should sort that if we don't up our game fron the Cowdenbeath performance.

[Barney McGrew]

Is it not a bit mean to hide behind an online user name in order to post damaging attacks questioning someone's professionalism and honesty?

Certain people were happy enough to do this on here previously themselves :wink:

[The Green Goblin]

Maybe Dempster does within the current set up.

Why the **** does all this appear the minute we're getting our act together?


:agree: One of the most important issues regarding this whole thing imo.

Also, what`s the word on the poster (sorry - I can`t check back to see who it was) who posted on this thread today that their daughter received an email telling them her DD pledge would be removed on November 20th(?). Surprised nobody has picked up on that and questioned it. I`ve read all the posts and don`t think I have missed it.

[Ozyhibby]

I don't know how to set up a poll but if someone could do one along the lines of,

'What do you think of BuyHibs?'

A. I'm pledged
B. I need a bit more info
C. I don't think we need change and I'm happy with Rod.

I think it would be great to gage opinion.

[Ozyhibby]

:agree: One of the most important issues regarding this whole thing imo. Could this really not have waited until May?

Also, what`s the word on the poster (sorry - I can`t check back to see who it was) who posted on this thread today that their daughter received an email telling them her DD pledge would be removed on November 20th(?). Surprised nobody has picked up on that and questioned it.

It's the date the DD goes live but no money will be drawn down until BuyHibs give the word.

[The Green Goblin]

I don't know how to set up a poll but if someone could do one along the lines of,

'What do you think of BuyHibs?'

A. I'm pledged
B. I need a bit more info
C. I don't think we need this particular kind of change and although I would much prefer RP to go, I'm also happy with the progress made under LD.
D. It`s unworkable as a long term strategy to guarantee the safety and existence of the club

I think it would be great to gage opinion.

I`ve suggested an alternative phrasing to C for you, plus another one for D. There will be other variations in opinions amongst the fans too....some positive, some not so much. My point is, I don`t think it`s all as simple as the choices you just offered. (imho) :wink:

[The Green Goblin]

It's the date the DD goes live but no money will be drawn down until BuyHibs give the word.

So they are thinking optimistically then? This feels as if they believe it is a matter of when rather than if.

Is Global Hibee one of the mysterious "investors" waiting in the wings? :greengrin

[Ozyhibby]

I`ve suggested an alternative phrasing to C for you, plus another one for D. There will be other variations in opinions amongst the fans too....some positive, some not so much. My point is, I don`t think it`s all as simple as the choices you just offered. (imho) :wink:

Agree, I was just being a dick and also I got lazy typing.
Hopefully someone will put one up soon.

[CapitalGreen]

Butcher & co must have cost us over £1m alone in getting them and then putting them on garden leave 6 months later, if STF love's Hibs that much he would have removed Petrie after the Calderwood fiasco.

Butcher & co were the popular choice amongst the majority of fans. Would the club make different choices when owned by these same fans? Collins, Mixu and Hughes were also the popular choice. Nobody thought of Mowbray at the time and this summer most wanted McCall over Stubbs.

[schinkenotto]

Butcher & co were the popular choice amongst the majority of fans. Would the club make different choices when owned by these same fans? Collins, Mixu and Hughes were also the popular choice. Nobody thought of Mowbray at the time and this summer most wanted McCall over Stubbs.

http://www.hibs.net/images/smilies/top%20marks.gif

[Ozyhibby]

Butcher & co were the popular choice amongst the majority of fans. Would the club make different choices when owned by these same fans? Collins, Mixu and Hughes were also the popular choice. Nobody thought of Mowbray at the time and this summer most wanted McCall over Stubbs.

There have been fans on here calling for the type of structure now being implemented by Leeann Dempster for years.
The fans are not as stupid as you think.

[The Green Goblin]

Agree, I was just being a dick and also I got lazy typing.
Hopefully someone will put one up soon.

I think your idea of a poll is a really good one. It might just be tricky to cover all angles with the options people want to see. And the stakes involved here- nothing less than the future of our club - are about as high as it gets. Still very much early days though, isn't it?

[The Falcon]

So, for STF to exit we need to find someone with deep pockets, prepared to gift Hibs money when needed, who at the same time won't look to take anything out of the Club, or get any return on the investment, or capital, provided to STF to become the new owner in the first place?

There is no other way, right?

That is not what I said.

Of course there are other ways but given our history, add in more recent events at other clubs, those that are asking legitimate questions are right to do so.

[The Falcon]

At an earlier fans meeting Kenny McLean latterly of Forever Hibernian told us a story about meeting Sir Tom Farmer during the Final against Hearts. Tom had his whole extended family at the game and he looked as sick and dejected as any fan. I've heard from a number of equally reliable sources that he cares deeply for Hibernian and our history and that he has spoken to David Murray about his regrets in selling Rangers to the shyster Craig Whyte. To make sure that doesn't happen all prospective bidders are being put through due diligence from Tom's lawyers, accountants and further scrutiny by David Glen of Price Waterhouse Coopers, the foremost expert on Scottish Football Finances.


Thats good to hear RIP:aok:

Although it might be fair to say that Rangers were fekced post Murray irrespective whether it was Craig Whyte or anybody else.

[Lago]

Page 14 of this thread. I have skim read a good few comments. On this sample people seem pretty sceptical?
And so they should be, too many unknowns in this sorry tale, both in the process and people involved. A real can of worms.

[CapitalGreen]

There have been fans on here calling for the type of structure now being implemented by Leeann Dempster for years.
The fans are not as stupid as you think.

So you are happy with the current approach being taken by the board?

[blackpoolhibs]

Maybe Dempster does within the current set up.

Why the **** does all this appear the minute we're getting our act together?

4th place in the championship, is this us getting our act together?

[Peevemor]

I don't know how to set up a poll but if someone could do one along the lines of,

'What do you think of BuyHibs?'

A. I'm pledged
B. I need a bit more info
C. I don't think we need change and I'm happy with Rod.

I think it would be great to gage opinion.

What's this got to do with Rod Petrie?

[HibeeHendo]

4th place in the championship, is this us getting our act together?

We had an awful start, fair enough but the recent results/performances are showing that we have finally turned the corner.

I'm not sure about anyone else's view but at the .net meeting at East Mains last week, I got the impression that the clubs structure has changed in a very positive way.

We should give Leeann a chance, not 5/6 months.

[SneakersO'Toole]

4th place in the championship, is this us getting our act together?

Exactly.

Its astounding the number of people on here who were screaming blue murder less than 2 months ago about the team on the park. Now all of a sudden things are rosy.

It will take a minor miracle to get promoted this season, thus confirming us in the Championship again for another season. Is this honestly people's opinion of improvement or getting our act together? I despair if so.

[H18Y GW]

4th place in the championship, is this us getting our act together?

Same for 2nd as 4th , 3rd come Saturday hopefully , 8 or 9 unbeaten , holy **** we could be struggling in the SPL again, that would be fun again

[H18Y GW]

Home game against QoTS should sort that if we don't up our game fron the Cowdenbeath performance.

Yeah QOTS had an outstanding result and performance at Central Park , I'd forgot

[silverhibee]

Butcher & co were the popular choice amongst the majority of fans. Would the club make different choices when owned by these same fans? Collins, Mixu and Hughes were also the popular choice. Nobody thought of Mowbray at the time and this summer most wanted McCall over Stubbs.

Fans don't pick or sack managers, Petrie should have done some homework on Butchers past managerial jobs, it wasn't great, and Petrie the football man should/must have heard horror stories about the training regime and how they treated players, it was well known in football that Malpas was a prick.

And lets give Leeann Dempster the credit for finding Stubbs, McCall was never in the running for the Hibs job.

[Hibby D]

Exactly.

Its astounding the number of people on here who were screaming blue murder less than 2 months ago about the team on the park. Now all of a sudden things are rosy.


That's only a relevant point if it's the exact same people who've changed their tune.

[SneakersO'Toole]

Same for 2nd as 4th , 3rd come Saturday hopefully , 8 or 9 unbeaten , holy **** we could be struggling in the SPL again, that would be fun again

Versus 8 years of dross...

There is a major point here is that some seem to be missing - change isn't optional, its inevitable. The STF model is stale and unsustainable (the man is in his seventies and rumoured to be in ill-health) but more pertinently, this model is tried, tested and proven to result in on-the-field abject failure. Change is coming, in whatever guise we choose but ultimately, its time some fans woke up to this. I'm not advocating the BuyHibs campaign yet as like others more information and time to digest said info is required but if its not this proposal that is successful then it will be another of some foundation and make up. We need to start embracing this certainly in ownership change to hopefully open up our minds and starting learning what options are the available to club and its fans, because it is the fans that will ultimately make the decision.

Ignoring this IMO and simply stating that you are happy with the current regime not only demonstrates a gross lack of ambition given the misery we have suffered over the last few years, but also neglect on the future of our club.

Get your head round that the fact that change is both required and necessary, and then the finer points of how this should be constructed can be discussed moving forward. Too many people are looking at this as black and white, with only 2 options on the table. This isn't the way I see it at all.

[SneakersO'Toole]

That's only a relevant point if it's the exact same people who've changed their tune.

There are certainly a few that have.

[Golden Bear]

There are certainly a few that have.

Fans are fickle but if what you say is true then it adds strength to the argument that a successful football team is what really matters to most people and what happens behind the scenes will then be irrelevant

[rcarter1]

There is a lot of debate on here that is focusing on whether the football club is heading in the right direction on the pitch, as if this is the only relevant factor to whether we need a change to ownership.

The change to fan involved ownership is a long term goal. I can understand that people may want to question this model vs other models.

However it seems as is if people are suggesting that Alan Stubbs and Leanne Dempster are doing well, and need time before we go down this route. They are completely separate issues. Leanne herself has been instrumental in inviting this change, and is now actively looking to work with it. The buy out isn't about getting rid of LD/AS/players, its about moving towards a long term future ownership model.

I haven't decided yet whether to pledge my support to this, as Id like to hear a bit more of the arguments, and plans.

But IF this is the best chance we have to get a share of the club, and if this is the best opportunity to go down this road, then Im in, and I hope as a support we go for it all or nothing.

[Jonnyboy]

Versus 8 years of dross...

There is a major point here is that some seem to be missing - change isn't optional, its inevitable. The STF model is stale and unsustainable (the man is in his seventies and rumoured to be in ill-health) but more pertinently, this model is tried, tested and proven to result in on-the-field abject failure. Change is coming, in whatever guise we choose but ultimately, its time some fans woke up to this. I'm not advocating the BuyHibs campaign yet as like others more information and time to digest said info is required but if its not this proposal that is successful then it will be another of some foundation and make up. We need to start embracing this certainly in ownership change to hopefully open up our minds and starting learning what options are the available to club and its fans, because it is the fans that will ultimately make the decision.

Ignoring this IMO and simply stating that you are happy with the current regime not only demonstrates a gross lack of ambition given the misery we have suffered over the last few years, but also neglect on the future of our club.

Get your head round that the fact that change is both required and necessary, and then the finer points of how this should be constructed can be discussed moving forward. Too many people are looking at this as black and white, with only 2 options on the table. This isn't the way I see it at all.

Sneakers, I'm not sure that many people are saying they are happy with the current regime when they say we are making progress. For me it's two different things. Most want RP away and some want STF to sell up. They are the 'regime' to my way of thinking. On the other hand we have a new CEO who has made many positive changes, not least of which in employing a manager and staff to run the football side which is making progress where it matters, on the park. The club has in place a team of coaches that, to my mind, mirrors the set up at many EPL clubs. They will take the team forward and we'll get back to where we belong, of that I am sure. I totally understand that we shouldn't be where we are in terms of being a Championship side but previous incumbents caused that to happen whereas the new folk I've mentioned are setting about putting that right.

I'm happy with that but it doesn't mean I'm happy with the 'regime.' :agree:

[CapitalGreen]

Fans don't pick or sack managers, Petrie should have done some homework on Butchers past managerial jobs, it wasn't great, and Petrie the football man should/must have heard horror stories about the training regime and how they treated players, it was well known in football that Malpas was a prick.

And lets give Leeann Dempster the credit for finding Stubbs, McCall was never in the running for the Hibs job.

Will the fans have any say in picking future managers under a fan ownership model?

[rcarter1]

Versus 8 years of dross...

There is a major point here is that some seem to be missing - change isn't optional, its inevitable. The STF model is stale and unsustainable (the man is in his seventies and rumoured to be in ill-health) but more pertinently, this model is tried, tested and proven to result in on-the-field abject failure. Change is coming, in whatever guise we choose but ultimately, its time some fans woke up to this. I'm not advocating the BuyHibs campaign yet as like others more information and time to digest said info is required but if its not this proposal that is successful then it will be another of some foundation and make up. We need to start embracing this certainly in ownership change to hopefully open up our minds and starting learning what options are the available to club and its fans, because it is the fans that will ultimately make the decision.

Ignoring this IMO and simply stating that you are happy with the current regime not only demonstrates a gross lack of ambition given the misery we have suffered over the last few years, but also neglect on the future of our club.

Get your head round that the fact that change is both required and necessary, and then the finer points of how this should be constructed can be discussed moving forward. Too many people are looking at this as black and white, with only 2 options on the table. This isn't the way I see it at all.

Agree, this debate is little to do with the current football fortunes, and all to do with how to navigate the next few generations.

[SneakersO'Toole]

Fans are fickle but if what you say is true then it adds strength to the argument that a successful football team is what really matters to most people and what happens behind the scenes will then be irrelevant

Or spun another way that some fans are extremely short-sighted and that although a successful football team should always be top priority, ignoring major flaws in other aspects of the club (especially when said flaws have been plain to see and discussed at length) on the strength of a 8/9 unbeaten run in Scotland's first division is folly and somewhat staggering.

[Ozyhibby]

Versus 8 years of dross...

There is a major point here is that some seem to be missing - change isn't optional, its inevitable. The STF model is stale and unsustainable (the man is in his seventies and rumoured to be in ill-health) but more pertinently, this model is tried, tested and proven to result in on-the-field abject failure. Change is coming, in whatever guise we choose but ultimately, its time some fans woke up to this. I'm not advocating the BuyHibs campaign yet as like others more information and time to digest said info is required but if its not this proposal that is successful then it will be another of some foundation and make up. We need to start embracing this certainly in ownership change to hopefully open up our minds and starting learning what options are the available to club and its fans, because it is the fans that will ultimately make the decision.

Ignoring this IMO and simply stating that you are happy with the current regime not only demonstrates a gross lack of ambition given the misery we have suffered over the last few years, but also neglect on the future of our club.

Get your head round that the fact that change is both required and necessary, and then the finer points of how this should be constructed can be discussed moving forward. Too many people are looking at this as black and white, with only 2 options on the table. This isn't the way I see it at all.

Wish I'd written that.

[blackpoolhibs]

We had an awful start, fair enough but the recent results/performances are showing that we have finally turned the corner.

I'm not sure about anyone else's view but at the .net meeting at East Mains last week, I got the impression that the clubs structure has changed in a very positive way.

We should give Leeann a chance, not 5/6 months.

I'm not against LD, quite the opposite. What i will say is we have a real habit of saying things have changed and another corner has been turned.

In fact i have probably heard this 10 times maybe even more over the last few years, and to be perfectly honest. Getting things right in the 2nd tier of Scottish football should be a lot easier to do than in the SPFL.

When we are regularly challenging at the right end of the top league, only then will i think things are going well.

[DC_Hibs]

And lets give Leeann Dempster the credit for finding Stubbs, McCall was never in the running for the Hibs job.

Aye because paying the necessary compo AND the old management teams salaries was never going to happen.

[Eyrie]

I don't know how to set up a poll but if someone could do one along the lines of,

'What do you think of BuyHibs?'

A. I'm pledged
B. I need a bit more info
C. I don't think we need change and I'm happy with Rod.

I think it would be great to gage opinion.

There was a poll (http://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?294194-Buy-Hibs-Initial-Reaction) last night.

I'm in "wait and see" mode right now. The most promising part about the BuyHibs announcement was the response of the club which makes it sound like the proposal isn't far off the plan that Farmer has in mind.

[Cropley10]

Versus 8 years of dross...

There is a major point here is that some seem to be missing - change isn't optional, its inevitable. The STF model is stale and unsustainable (the man is in his seventies and rumoured to be in ill-health) but more pertinently, this model is tried, tested and proven to result in on-the-field abject failure. Change is coming, in whatever guise we choose but ultimately, its time some fans woke up to this. I'm not advocating the BuyHibs campaign yet as like others more information and time to digest said info is required but if its not this proposal that is successful then it will be another of some foundation and make up. We need to start embracing this certainly in ownership change to hopefully open up our minds and starting learning what options are the available to club and its fans, because it is the fans that will ultimately make the decision.

Ignoring this IMO and simply stating that you are happy with the current regime not only demonstrates a gross lack of ambition given the misery we have suffered over the last few years, but also neglect on the future of our club.

Get your head round that the fact that change is both required and necessary, and then the finer points of how this should be constructed can be discussed moving forward. Too many people are looking at this as black and white, with only 2 options on the table. This isn't the way I see it at all.

Very well said.

Less 'not for me' short-termism and more thinking about how change is managed I'd suggest.

[Velma Dinkley]

The 8 years or dross and misery is simply not reality. But is the fact that people thinking, for example, that finishing 4th in the league is dross and miserable a part of our problem? John Hughes took us to a 4th place finish and there were fans demanding he be sacked. I don't remember Hibs fans having this type of mentality previously but maybe I'm too young to remember :greengrin

[Jonnyboy]

I lifted the following from the BuyHibs The Future page

If fans do not support BuyHibs in sufficient numbers we believe Hibs face a difficult and uncertain future with the future of both Easter Road and the Hibernian Training Centre of particular concern.

Re the bit in bold. Hibileaks also suggested ownership of ER and EM was at risk.

Can anyone offer up an explanation as to what facts these views are based on?

[ronaldo7]

There is a lot of debate on here that is focusing on whether the football club is heading in the right direction on the pitch, as if this is the only relevant factor to whether we need a change to ownership.

The change to fan involved ownership is a long term goal. I can understand that people may want to question this model vs other models.

However it seems as is if people are suggesting that Alan Stubbs and Leanne Dempster are doing well, and need time before we go down this route. They are completely separate issues. Leanne herself has been instrumental in inviting this change, and is now actively looking to work with it. The buy out isn't about getting rid of LD/AS/players, its about moving towards a long term future ownership model.

I haven't decided yet whether to pledge my support to this, as Id like to hear a bit more of the arguments, and plans.

But IF this is the best chance we have to get a share of the club, and if this is the best opportunity to go down this road, then Im in, and I hope as a support we go for it all or nothing.

:aok::agree:

[Andy74]

Very well said.

Less 'not for me' short-termism and more thinking about how change is managed I'd suggest.

Why is not being impressed with this particular approach short termism?

[Cropley10]

Why is not being impressed with this particular approach short termism?

Well the timing isn't great is it?

Some people have dismissed it out of hand. Some have questioned why it's even necessary. Some want to just stick with the current regime, forever. Some don't like anything about the protagonists, etc. etc.

[Alfred E Newman]

Will the fans have any say in picking future managers under a fan ownership model?

Yogi, Butcher, Mixu, and Collins were all the fans choice.

[Andy74]

There is a lot of debate on here that is focusing on whether the football club is heading in the right direction on the pitch, as if this is the only relevant factor to whether we need a change to ownership.

The change to fan involved ownership is a long term goal. I can understand that people may want to question this model vs other models.

However it seems as is if people are suggesting that Alan Stubbs and Leanne Dempster are doing well, and need time before we go down this route. They are completely separate issues. Leanne herself has been instrumental in inviting this change, and is now actively looking to work with it. The buy out isn't about getting rid of LD/AS/players, its about moving towards a long term future ownership model.

I haven't decided yet whether to pledge my support to this, as Id like to hear a bit more of the arguments, and plans.

But IF this is the best chance we have to get a share of the club, and if this is the best opportunity to go down this road, then Im in, and I hope as a support we go for it all or nothing.

Leanne made clear in the consultations that this wasn't being invited by the club and Sir Toms stance was unchanged.

The consultations and discussions were a reaction to a number of protests and the approaches.

The feedback at the night I was at was that it was way down our priorities. The club survey returned the same result.

It is not inevitable that we need to do something. Until Sir Tom says otherwise we carry on. It would be helpful if he clarified what happens when he dies but it's not really common practice is it?

Ownership and day to day management are different things for me and I don't think the ownership aspect comes close to being something I as a fan should be worried about just now.

[SneakersO'Toole]

The 8 years or dross and misery is simply not reality. But is the fact that people thinking, for example, that finishing 4th in the league is dross and miserable a part of our problem? John Hughes took us to a 4th place finish and there were fans demanding he be sacked. I don't remember Hibs fans having this type of mentality previously but maybe I'm too young to remember :greengrin

You have clearly been watching re-runs of yourself on blind date every Saturday instead of going to ER if you think the last 7+ years has been anything other than abject failure with the odd total embarrassment or five thrown in for good measure.

Anyway, performances aren't the main issue here. The dire on the field results are just one of the main drivers resulting in this discussion.

[inglisavhibs]

So, for STF to exit we need to find someone with deep pockets, prepared to gift Hibs money when needed, who at the same time won't look to take anything out of the Club, or get any return on the investment, or capital, provided to STF to become the new owner in the first place?

There is no other way, right?

Correct, this season and last are good examples. Income lower than expenditure so who pays the shortfall. For all our problems, financial security is the least of them under Farmer. Any new owners would preferably have to finance the poor seasons just like the present.

[SneakersO'Toole]

Correct, this season and last are good examples. Income lower than expenditure so who pays the shortfall. For all our problems, financial security is the least of them under Farmer. Any new owners would preferably have to finance the poor seasons just like the present.

Can someone please show me some empirical data/evidence that outlines STF continually dipping his hand into his pocket to make up seasons shortfall?

Another classic hibs.net myth. "Lender of last resort" grows arms and legs into this owner who continually gives us money when we are short or broke. Total fabrication!

I asked this for this previously and the best someone could cone up with was a £1m loan from 2005 that was repaid some years later.

[CropleyWasGod]

Correct, this season and last are good examples. Income lower than expenditure so who pays the shortfall. For all our problems, financial security is the least of them under Farmer. Any new owners would preferably have to finance the poor seasons just like the present.
We generally finance the losses from our reserves. ie the good years pay for the bad years.

[Mikey]

Can someone please show me some empirical data/evidence that outlines STF continually dipping his hand into his pocket to make up seasons shortfall?

Another classic hibs.net myth. "Lender of last resort" grows arms and legs into this owner who continually gives us money when we are short or broke. Total fabrication!

I asked this for this previously and the best someone could cone up with was a £1m loan from 2005 that was repaid some years later.

It isn't fabrication, it's in the accounts. And it'll be in the next set of accounts, big time!

And it isn't continuous, it's done when it's needed.

[CropleyWasGod]

Can someone please show me some empirical data/evidence that outlines STF continually dipping his hand into his pocket to make up seasons shortfall?

Another classic hibs.net myth. "Lender of last resort" grows arms and legs into this owner who continually gives us money when we are short or broke. Total fabrication!

I asked this for this previously and the best someone could cone up with was a £1m loan from 2005 that was repaid some years later.
There's a loan of 1.5m from HFC Holdings in the 2013 accounts

[SneakersO'Toole]

It is not inevitable that we need to do something. Until Sir Tom says otherwise we carry on. It would be helpful if he clarified what happens when he dies but it's not really common practice is it?

Now who is being naive Andy? So by that reckoning we should just do nothing until STF feels like talking (which going by past experience will be a very long time). If a company who wanted to acquire another company but did nothing until the owner spoke of his demands then they might not get very far surely? Why shouldn't a group like BuyHibs take the lead and be pro-active? God knows we've been waiting longing to hear from our esteemed owner about ANYTHING.

[CapitalGreen]

Yogi, Butcher, Mixu, and Collins were all the fans choice.

Exactly.

[Kaiser1962]

I lifted the following from the BuyHibs The Future page

If fans do not support BuyHibs in sufficient numbers we believe Hibs face a difficult and uncertain future with the future of both Easter Road and the Hibernian Training Centre of particular concern.

Re the bit in bold. Hibileaks also suggested ownership of ER and EM was at risk.

Can anyone offer up an explanation as to what facts these views are based on?

I have to say that jumped out to me as well. I am unaware of any obvious risks to the ownership of ER or EM although did HoH not claim STF was charging rent? There is nothing to my knowledge in the accounts that would suggest that either statement is true and without corroborative evidence they lose credibility. All IMO off course.

[Andy74]

Now who is being naive Andy? So by that reckoning we should just do nothing until STF feels like talking (which going by past experience will be a very long time). If a company who wanted to acquire another company but did nothing until the owner spoke of his demands then they might not get very far surely? Why shouldn't a group like BuyHibs take the lead and be pro-active? God knows we've been waiting longing to hear from our esteemed owner about ANYTHING.

That's only relevant if you think acquiring the company is needed or beneficial. I don't think it is so I am happy to carry on. Thousands if others agreed in the recent survey. Nothing niaive about it.

[inglisavhibs]

Can someone please show me some empirical data/evidence that outlines STF continually dipping his hand into his pocket to make up seasons shortfall?

Another classic hibs.net myth. "Lender of last resort" grows arms and legs into this owner who continually gives us money when we are short or broke. Total fabrication!

I asked this for this previously and the best someone could cone up with was a £1m loan from 2005 that was repaid some years later.
It's not just handing over cash. Do the sums just now, Hibs will be losing heavily over the winter months with very little week by week income. The banks will not be keen to offer large loans to football clubs unless they are financially secure. Rangers are a good example of that just now. I am not for a minute suggesting that he hands over money on a monthly basis to Hibs but we are relatively secure under his ownership. The problem with fan ownership and pledges is that when things are going badly on the football side the money coming in tends to drop and when crowds fall at the same time clubs can get in to trouble very quickly. Change is inevitable at Easter Road as Tom Farmer won't be around for ever but it's imperative that any new owners have financial clout.

[rcarter1]

Leanne made clear in the consultations that this wasn't being invited by the club and Sir Toms stance was unchanged.

The consultations and discussions were a reaction to a number of protests and the approaches.

The feedback at the night I was at was that it was way down our priorities. The club survey returned the same result.

It is not inevitable that we need to do something. Until Sir Tom says otherwise we carry on. It would be helpful if he clarified what happens when he dies but it's not really common practice is it?

Ownership and day to day management are different things for me and I don't think the ownership aspect comes close to being something I as a fan should be worried about just now.

Perhaps there is some confusion as to what we interpret as inviting the process. My understanding is that one of Leanne Dempsters big things is that she has consulted fans with the prospect of fan ownership. That is what I see as inviting this move by BuyHibs.

As for priority, I agree, the first priority is almost always what is going on the pitch. However, the ownership model is still an important issue. There is no dramatic rush, we are not in the state of Hearts were in. Nonetheless, a community ownership model is worth considering, and given that Mr Petrie has lost the trust of the support, only adds motivation for a change at the way things are run. It doesn't stop or hinder Alan Stubbs in what he is trying to achieve - and Nowhere does anyone suggest that his job or anyone else's is on the line or under pressure.

As for the inevitability of this, I agree nothing is inevitable. However given that we have people like Paul Kane, Pat Stanton engaged in a fashion not seen since the Mercer takeovers, suggests that there is an energy and desire to move things forward. I would like to give these guys who are putting their time and effort into a positive change for our club a proper and fair hearing. I know I want the same things as they do - A winning Hibs team.

Finally, most of us will be hard pressed to throw much money at this - and this is true now, and will likely be true in five years. I suspect that this process will take considerable time to reach fruition. That for me is a reason to take very seriously this proposal, as if the model is right, the sooner we get it moving the better.

[grunt]

Can someone please show me some empirical data/evidence that outlines STF continually dipping his hand into his pocket to make up seasons shortfall? r.

Did you look in the accounts? There for all to see.

[Cropley10]

Correct, this season and last are good examples. Income lower than expenditure so who pays the shortfall. For all our problems, financial security is the least of them under Farmer. Any new owners would preferably have to finance the poor seasons just like the present.

You are not being serious surely?

There is no other way forward than to find someone with deep pockets, prepared to gift Hibs money when needed, who at the same time won't look to take anything out of the Club, or get any return on the investment, or capital, provided to STF to become the new owner in the first place?

So - basically someone who's a die-hard Hibs fan who happens to win the Euro Millions jackpot.

If you are for real - then you can then very easily see that STF might not actually want to keep forking out from his personal wealth.

You must also be able to see that 'poor seasons' have to become a thing of the past, and we can only spend what we earn...

[Peevemor]

Did you look in the accounts? There for all to see.

Yes, but apart from that what have the Romans ever done for us?

[grunt]

You are not being serious surely?

There is no other way forward than to find someone with deep pockets, prepared to gift Hibs money when needed, who at the same time won't look to take anything out of the Club, or get any return on the investment, or capital, ...
You've just described STF ...

[SneakersO'Toole]

That's only relevant if you think acquiring the company is needed or beneficial. I don't think it is so I am happy to carry on. Thousands if others agreed in the recent survey. Nothing niaive about it.

Thousands also protested at the ownership of the club, took part in open and/or formal letters to the club and other fans surveys connected to the club. To this day fans are still pushing for change. Do these views not count or are deemed in some way less important?

Fans are taking the lead with trying to prompt discussion on change which whether you want to believe it or not will happen, and in not too distant future I reckon. This will be driven either by fan momentum or STF's exit strategy, given his age. You cannot blame people for wanting to take the bull by the horns and understand what the lay of the land is. STF may hold all the power but that doesnt mean people who want change should do nothing until STF decides to make a move, especially given his history for total lack of communication with Hibs supporters.

[Cropley10]

It's not just handing over cash. Do the sums just now, Hibs will be losing heavily over the winter months with very little week by week income. The banks will not be keen to offer large loans to football clubs unless they are financially secure. Rangers are a good example of that just now. I am not for a minute suggesting that he hands over money on a monthly basis to Hibs but we are relatively secure under his ownership. The problem with fan ownership and pledges is that when things are going badly on the football side the money coming in tends to drop and when crowds fall at the same time clubs can get in to trouble very quickly. Change is inevitable at Easter Road as Tom Farmer won't be around for ever but it's imperative that any new owners have financial clout.


Financial clout? You mean cash to burn, right? Literally b u r n....

Cashflow in football Clubs is very peaky, so when you say 'losing heavily' what you really mean is there's (potentially) more going out than coming in, some months. In fact Winter might not be so bad, with Christmas trade in the Club shop, or Half Seasons. Commercial income, advertising and walk-ups help even out the cash-flow, but obviously any Bank knows that provided that Hibs don't go bust, we will sell more ST's in June, July and so on.

Of course, the big issue for years is less and less people have been doing this.

The chances of us finding another wealthy benefactor prepared to prop up a failing business is nearly zero.

[SneakersO'Toole]

There's a loan of 1.5m from HFC Holdings in the 2013 accounts

I stand corrected, thanks for pointing it out. Although from looking at the accounts it only looks like a £250k loan was made in 2013, which was repayable within 1 year.