David James

[Johnny_Leith]

Totally broke and auctioning all his football memorabilia. How can someone earning probably 20K a week at points in his career go to being broke?

https://www.hilcoind.com/sale-details?view=detailview&pid=490735c4-a3ff-2551-d402-54579bd48161

For anyone interested in bidding!

[Onceinawhile]

He's not selling it off, the trustees of his bankruptcy are. Like you say amazing how someone earnings so much for so long can be broke.

playing in India now. Wonder how much that's worth.

[Pretty Boy]

Bad investments would seem likely. Bad property deals and poor business decisions.

Brad Friedel is still playing because he's skint after an ill fated investment in a chain of 'soccer' academies. He can't afford to retire.

There's numerous examples of players being too easily parted from their cash.

[DC_Hibs]

Having seen plenty of footballers accounts in my last job there are loads of similar cases.

Normally its -Player earns £X thousand per week at the height of his earnings potential and spends accordingly. The wages then drop but they are either unwilling or unable to reduce their outgoings.

Some of them listen to their advisors or themselves have financial savvy to make sure they keep the spending sensible and invest wisely while the going is good.

Some of them may be affected by messy divorces/child maintenance of course and take a hit.

For a goalkeeper with a 20 year career of decent wages to be in that position would suggest he's a total ph@nny/flash pr!ck.

[Hibernia&Alba]

Bad investments would seem likely. Bad property deals and poor business decisions.

Brad Friedel is still playing because he's skint after an ill fated investment in a chain of 'soccer' academies. He can't afford to retire.

There's numerous examples of players being too easily parted from their cash.

Surely they all have people looking after their money? Earning thousands per week, stick it in the bank and sit back. Did he get greedy and just want more and more?

[Nando™]

James came across as quite the level-headed type. Surprised he ended up like this.

[hibee-boys]

Zero sympathy I'm afraid, some of these guys will earn in a year what it takes the majority of us a lifetime to earn.

[Nando™]

Zero sympathy I'm afraid, some of these guys will earn in a year what it takes the majority of us a lifetime to earn.

Would you then have zero sympathy for anyone that gets into this position? As, of course, the average UK citizen earns in a year what it takes millions upon millions of others a lifetime to earn.

[Scouse Hibee]

Zero sympathy I'm afraid, some of these guys will earn in a year what it takes the majority of us a lifetime to earn.

The value of losing everything is exactly the same no matter what you earn. I have sympathy for people who lose everything.

[hibee-boys]

Would you then have zero sympathy for anyone that gets into this position? As, of course, the average UK citizen earns in a year what it takes millions upon millions of others a lifetime to earn.

I've no sympathy for anyone who haa been in receipt of the level of wages your average premiership footballer earns who ends up in this position. They are more than aware of their limited shelf life in professional sport, no excuse to not plan for life after football.

[hibee-boys]

The value of losing everything is exactly the same no matter what you earn. I have sympathy for people who lose everything.

I take it then you were quite happy with hearts and rangers living beyond their means knowing full well that it was not sustainable over the longer term?

[Scouse Hibee]

I've no sympathy for anyone who haa been in receipt of the level of wages your average premiership footballer earns who ends up in this position. They are more than aware of their limited shelf life in professional sport, no excuse to not plan for life after football.


You do realise that in plotting for life after football many have invested and lost their money not intentionally?

[Scouse Hibee]

I take it then you were quite happy with hearts and rangers living beyond their means knowing full well that it was not sustainable over the longer term?


That's a wild assumption to make, because I feel sympathy for individuals who may have lost their investments through many factors outwith their control.:confused:

[Hibernia&Alba]

Reading between the lines, DJ was doing exactly that.

But he must have earned many millions in a twenty odd year career in the EPL. What did he need to plan for?

[nonshinyfinish]

I take it then you were quite happy with hearts and rangers living beyond their means knowing full well that it was not sustainable over the longer term?

Well, if you're going down that road, I take it you think the financial trouble that Hibs got into in the early 90s was evidence of cheating, and should have been punished in the same way as Hearts and Rangers recently?

Since apparently other people losing your money through bad investments is the same as pissing it away on cars, women and inflated wage bills, and since we're doing absurd extrapolation of other people's opinions.

[hibee-boys]

You do realise that in plotting for life after football many have invested and lost their money not intentionally?

I suspect that this was a factor, however I would imagine that given his earnings over the years he would have required little, if any return, from an investment to maintain a reasonable post football financial existence. It's likely that his pursuit of more money, by investing in high risk investments, resulted in this outcome. That was well within his control.

[hibee-boys]

But he must have earned many millions in a twenty odd year career in the EPL. What did he need to plan for?

Exactly the point I'm trying to make, the greed to make even more money would have been the major factor, and it's for that reason I've no sympathy.

[Scouse Hibee]

I suspect that this was a factor, however I would imagine that given his earnings over the years he would have required little, if any return, from an investment to maintain a reasonable post football financial existence. It's likely that his pursuit of more money, by investing in high risk investments, resulted in this outcome. That was well within his control.

People earn different amounts of money and use it to fund their lifestyles to the degree that they can afford, everyone does it from the highest to the lowest paid, people also try to make more money if they can from investments and such like. They never plan to lose their money, unfortunately some do, I never quite grasp this mentality of he earned blah blah so I have no sympathy, it's all relative in my opinion.

[DC_Hibs]

So how has he managed to run out of cash?

http://money.aol.co.uk/2014/05/16/former-england-footballer-david-james-declared-bankrupt/

James made good money from a football career that spanned 25 years and saw him capped 53 times for England. It's thought his income over this quarter of a century would have been around £20 million. According to the Daily Mail, he built up a portfolio of seven properties with his wife Tanya, and in 2005 his assets were estimated at around £6 million.

The Sun says that his financial problems started that year, when he and Tanya were divorced. They said that the split from the mother of his four children cost him £3 million, plus a share of his earnings.

At that stage he still had significant assets. However, he isn't the first person to struggle after a divorce, when one parent has to balance setting up a new household with paying a significant portion of their income to an ex-partner and to support their children.

He is also adjusting to a lower income. He has lost the mega-earnings of his footballing years, and although he works consistently, he donates the fee from his Observer column to charity and volunteers as a coach for Luton Town in order to build up his coaching experience.

[hibee-boys]

Well, if you're going down that road, I take it you think the financial trouble that Hibs got into in the early 90s was evidence of cheating, and should have been punished in the same way as Hearts and Rangers recently?

Since apparently other people losing your money through bad investments is the same as pissing it away on cars, women and inflated wage bills, and since we're doing absurd extrapolation of other people's opinions.

I can't comment on hibs situation around the hands of hibs period as I'm unaware of what the financial circumstances were but yes if they were living outrageously beyond their means which resulted in a similar situation to hearts/rangers they should have been punished. I would expect no different in the future either.

[nonshinyfinish]

I can't comment on hibs situation around the hands of hibs period as I'm unaware of what the financial circumstances were but yes if they were living outrageously beyond their means which resulted in a similar situation to hearts/rangers they should have been punished. I would expect no different in the future either.

Oh, so it matters how we lost the money? Funny, I'm sure you were just saying you had zero sympathy no matter what.

[hibee-boys]

People earn different amounts of money and use it to fund their lifestyles to the degree that they can afford, everyone does it from the highest to the lowest paid, people also try to make more money if they can from investments and such like. They never plan to lose their money, unfortunately some do, I never quite grasp this mentality of he earned blah blah so I have no sympathy, it's all relative in my opinion.

Complete respect for your viewpoint. However, you dont see a problem with an individual blowing millions on flash cars,exotic holidays etc whilst the majority of the working population budget accordingly every month to ensure that they don't put their families such a position?

[hibee-boys]

Oh, so it matters how we lost the money? Funny, I'm sure you were just saying you had zero sympathy no matter what.

Did I say it mattered how we lost the money? I thought I'd said I couldn't comment but that I'd expect us to be punished accordingly in the same situation.

[Scouse Hibee]

Complete respect for your viewpoint. However, you dont see a problem with an individual blowing millions on flash cars,exotic holidays etc whilst the majority of the working population budget accordingly every month to ensure that they don't put their families such a position?

My point is exactly that, the working population budget and plan their lifestyles around what they earn, higher earners do exactly the same thing. Plenty of normal working folk gone through bankruptcy too!

[nonshinyfinish]

Did I say it mattered how we lost the money? I thought I'd said I couldn't comment but that I'd expect us to be punished accordingly in the same situation.

Yes, you did:


if they were living outrageously beyond their means

[hibee-boys]

My point is exactly that, the working population budget and plan their lifestyles around what they earn, higher earners do exactly the same thing. Plenty of normal working folk gone through bankruptcy too!

The difference I see is that the higher earners have the capability to adjust their lifestyle, downsize etc. The majority of working class bankrupts just don't have that degree of flexibility, certainly from my experience.

[hibee-boys]

Yes, you did:

Sorry, I don't see the correlation. What I'm trying to say,perhaps not clearly enough, is that all people/companies have an individual responsibility to live within their means, have contingencies for not so fruitful times, plan for the future to ensure that they don't put themselves at risk of insolvency/bankruptcy. All situations are inherently different but quite often involves taking greater risks to achieve greater returns, risks which can sometimes be unnecessary.

[Hibernia&Alba]

I have sympathy with hibee boys. I'm not celebrating the fact the guy is on his erse, but find it hard to feel pity for a multi-millionaire who blows a fortune. It's totally avoidable. He had the dream life.

[nonshinyfinish]

Sorry, I don't see the correlation. What I'm trying to say,perhaps not clearly enough, is that all people/companies have an individual responsibility to live within their means, have contingencies for not so fruitful times, plan for the future to ensure that they don't put themselves at risk of insolvency/bankruptcy. All situations are inherently different but quite often involves taking greater risks to achieve greater returns, risks which can sometimes be unnecessary.

My point is that the reasons for financial difficulty ought to influence how you respond to it. For example, Hibs' board making disastrous investments in a chain of hotels and Hearts repeatedly spending far more than they could afford on wages had pretty much the same result from a financial point of view, but one is clearly cheating from a sporting point of view and one isn't.

In the same way, reckless spending on living the high life or taking bad advice on investments could equally well bankrupt a footballer. Since you don't know what caused David James' situation, taking an attitude of 'he was rich once, so I've zero sympathy' is fairly indefensible IMO.

[basehibby]

I have sympathy with hibee boys. I'm not celebrating the fact the guy is on his erse, but find it hard to feel pity for a multi-millionaire who blows a fortune. It's totally avoidable. He had the dream life.

:agree: He and his Mrs had 6 properties - give 3 to the Mrs, live in one and rent the other two out - hey presto - an income and security! It seems pretty hard on the face of it to make an erse of that but he's not the first or the last to manage it I suppose.

[hibee-boys]

My point is that the reasons for financial difficulty ought to influence how you respond to it. For example, Hibs' board making disastrous investments in a chain of hotels and Hearts repeatedly spending far more than they could afford on wages had pretty much the same result from a financial point of view, but one is clearly cheating from a sporting point of view and one isn't.

In the same way, reckless spending on living the high life or taking bad advice on investments could equally well bankrupt a footballer. Since you don't know what caused David James' situation, taking an attitude of 'he was rich once, so I've zero sympathy' is fairly indefensible IMO.

I think you are kidding yourself if you think that someone who has amassed approximate earnings in the region of £20m has had to resort to bankruptcy purely on the back of bad property investment advice. And it's for that reason I've zero sympathy.

[CropleyWasGod]

I have sympathy with hibee boys. I'm not celebrating the fact the guy is on his erse, but find it hard to feel pity for a multi-millionaire who blows a fortune. It's totally avoidable. He had the dream life.

Sometimes it's unavoidable.

I have seen more than a few situations where well set-up people and businesses have lost the lot because of things beyond their control. An unforeseen bad debt, sometimes higher up the chain, a change in the regulatory environment, or a change in banks' policy. These are all real situations, which would have been very difficult to predict.

[nonshinyfinish]

I think you are kidding yourself if you think that someone who has amassed approximate earnings in the region of £20m has had to resort to bankruptcy purely on the back of bad property investment advice. And it's for that reason I've zero sympathy.

So tell me, what was it that put David James in this position?

[greenginger]

With a bit of foresight the guy will have stuck a decent amount away in a pension pot which , I think the trustees in bankruptcy can't touch.

Might have something for the old age.

[CropleyWasGod]

With a bit of foresight the guy will have stuck a decent amount away in a pension pot which , I think the trustees in bankruptcy can't touch.

Might have something for the old age.

It used to be the case that certain occupations, footballers included, could take their pension at 35. Not sure if that still holds.

[hibee-boys]

It used to be the case that certain occupations, footballers included, could take their pension at 35. Not sure if that still holds.

Was prior to 2006, 55 now.

[hibee-boys]

So tell me, what was it that put David James in this position?

I don't know the correct answer to that anymore than you can be sure that he's bankrupt exclusively due to bad investment advice. I think it would be not be out of the realms of possibility however that he has lived an extravagant lifestyle throughout his career. A lifestyle which could have been curtailed only ever so slightly to ensure reasonable financial independence post career, that he was in full control off.

[hibeemikey21]

I'm always dubious when I hear about people like james being "bankrupt". I always think they have planned ahead, hidden/transferred assets and this is simply a way of clearing bad debts

I'm sure he'll be just fine.

[nonshinyfinish]

I don't know the correct answer to that anymore than you can be sure that he's bankrupt exclusively due to bad investment advice. I think it would be not be out of the realms of possibility however that he has lived an extravagant lifestyle throughout his career. A lifestyle which could have been curtailed only ever so slightly to ensure reasonable financial independence post career, that he was in full control off.

I've never claimed to know how he ended up in this situation (bad investments is a hypothetical example) – the point that you have missed repeatedly is that there are different ways to end up bankrupt, with different levels of blame on the person involved, and so this blanket 'zero sympathy' without knowing any facts is absurd.

Good night.

[Haymaker]

I've no sympathy for anyone who haa been in receipt of the level of wages your average premiership footballer earns who ends up in this position. They are more than aware of their limited shelf life in professional sport, no excuse to not plan for life after football.

Having worked with many ex professionals, mostly young lads, most don't realise it. Most have a invincible attitude where there is no end.

[hibee-boys]

I've never claimed to know how he ended up in this situation (bad investments is a hypothetical example) – the point that you have missed repeatedly is that there are different ways to end up bankrupt, with different levels of blame on the person involved, and so this blanket 'zero sympathy' without knowing any facts is absurd.

Good night.

At what point did I say I had a blanket zero sympathy approach to all bankrupts? I said that I had no sympathy for a footballer/s who earn millions throughout their career and choose to squander a large majority of it. I take great offence to your suggestion that I'm not sympathetic to bankrupts in all situations, I've experience in financial services dealing with individuals/companies exactly in this situation.

[CropleyWasGod]

At what point did I say I had a blanket zero sympathy approach to all bankrupts? I said that I had no sympathy for a footballer/s who earn millions throughout their career and choose to squander a large majority of it. I take great offence to your suggestion that I'm not sympathetic to bankrupts in all situations, I've experience in financial services dealing with individuals/companies exactly in this situation.

You used the word "squander", yet none of us know how he got into the situation.

As I said above, sometimes it is unavoidable.

[Mango Man]

He's playing/coaching in the new Indian league set up, along with Robert Pires, Trezeguet, Del Piero, Anelka etc, sure he will be getting a fairly decent wage over there you'd think.

[Sir David Gray]

He's playing/coaching in the new Indian league set up, along with Robert Pires, Trezeguet, Del Piero, Anelka etc, sure he will be getting a fairly decent wage over there you'd think.

Sorry to change the direction of the thread slightly but I've just noticed that Stephen Pearson and Jamie McAllister both play for the team that David James manages in India.

Totally missed that!

[Dashing Bob S]

I'm not saying it's the case with James, but often gambling addiction is the unseen villain at the table. Footballers are often thrust into that that culture from an early age, and unlike drugs and alcoholism, it leaves no apparent change in behaviour. It's easy, if you are making big money, to get hooked on the buzz of laying off huge bets, knowing your wages will cover it.

[hibees 7062]

Having worked with many ex professionals, mostly young lads, most don't realise it. Most have a invincible attitude where there is no end.

The Rangers number 8 :agree:

[WestCoastHibby]

I'm always dubious when I hear about people like james being "bankrupt". I always think they have planned ahead, hidden/transferred assets and this is simply a way of clearing bad debts

I'm sure he'll be just fine.

Aye and that fanny Kerry Katonas gone bust more than once. Zero sympathy from me. My dad was declared bankrupt 30 yrs ago when it actually meant something.....and the stigma of a failed business broke him.
Bankruptsy is now too easy an option for those that piss it all away........

[hibees 7062]

Aye and that fanny Kerry Katonas gone bust more than once. Zero sympathy from me. My dad was declared bankrupt 30 yrs ago when it actually meant something.....and the stigma of a failed business broke him.
Bankruptsy is now too easy an option for those that piss it all away........

:top marks On yer erse one minute and top of the league and flying the next

[lapsedhibee]

You used the word "squander", yet none of us know how he got into the situation.


In his 2004 autobiography, Stan Collymore described his time lodging with James when they both played for Liverpool in 1995. “If he [James] had a new car and he pranged it, he would just go and buy a new car – so there were five cars parked in the drive. If he bought a new pair of shoes and he scuffed them, he wouldn’t clean them. He would just chuck them in the spare room and buy a new pair.

[Sudds_1]

My point is that the reasons for financial difficulty ought to influence how you respond to it. For example, Hibs' board making disastrous investments in a chain of hotels and Hearts repeatedly spending far more than they could afford on wages had pretty much the same result from a financial point of view, but one is clearly cheating from a sporting point of view and one isn't.

In the same way, reckless spending on living the high life or taking bad advice on investments could equally well bankrupt a footballer. Since you don't know what caused David James' situation, taking an attitude of 'he was rich once, so I've zero sympathy' is fairly indefensible IMO.

Seems the main creditor is HMRC.............perhaps thats a wee clue?

[greenginger]

Seems the main creditor is HMRC.............perhaps thats a wee clue?

Awaiting howls of disapproval from the new custodians of Taxpayer morality coming from a Pink Bus Shelter on the West side of Edinburgh. :greengrin

[Sudds_1]

Awaiting howls of disapproval from the new custodians of Taxpayer morality coming from a Pink Bus Shelter on the West side of Edinburgh. :greengrin

hehe :greengrin

[Time For Heroes]

David James has gone bankrupt?
He never was that good at saving!
:greengrin

[Kato]

David James has gone bankrupt?
He never was that good at saving!
:greengrin

Did he post his net earnings?

[CropleyWasGod]

Did he post his net earnings?

He palmed those questions away.

[Hibernia&Alba]

David James has gone bankrupt?
He never was that good at saving!
:greengrin


Did he post his net earnings?


He palmed those questions away.

Open the windaes. The patter is stinking the place oot :-D

[Time For Heroes]

Open the windaes. The patter is stinking the place oot :-D

:greengrin
TBH its not half as bad as when James played his dire keeping abilities on his Playstation haha