Dortmund

[Billy McKirdy]

Great article about Dortmund and their emphasis on the fans over all else.

http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/29624410

[DC_Hibs]

Great article about Dortmund and their emphasis on the fans over all else.

http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/29624410

No different to Celtc or the old Rangers in reality.
Support your local team.

[Billy McKirdy]

No different to Celtc or the old Rangers in reality.
Support your local team.

The price to watch them is what really stands out for me, football fans are priced out the game in this country.

[Chuck Rhoades]

No different to Celtc or the old Rangers in reality.
Support your local team.

Here, here!

[Bishop Hibee]

I can understand why old school fans reject the sterility of English Premiership grounds. They'd be better off going to a lower league local team if they're looking for an authentic atmosphere.

[DC_Hibs]

The price to watch them is what really stands out for me, football fans are priced out the game in this country.

Fair do's, I never read the article as there's been a few of late talking about 1000 British going to each game and how they are one of the last great traditional clubs.

Plenty other smaller traditional clubs could do with the football tourists money. ...and will have better atmospheres albeit the stadium is a cracker for a one off visit....before checking out other cities/stadiums/clubs. I could recommend plenty.

Dortmund are now bleating about Bayern making noises re Reus now!! They released him years back and waved the cheque book to take him off Gladbach. What goes around eh!!

[carnoustiehibee]

No different to Celtc or the old Rangers in reality.
Support your local team.

You mean, don't be a glory hunter.

[NAE NOOKIE]

The price to watch them is what really stands out for me, football fans are priced out the game in this country.

The German clubs pass on earnings from TV rights and other deals to their fans in lower prices, as shown in the BBC report. A report like that should put the EPL to shame, but not the Scottish game IMO .... for the vast majority of our clubs the fans are by far and away the biggest source of income .......... having said that I think Hibs made a mistake charging £28 for the derby recently.

I would love the German model in Scotland, but we just don't have the population to copy them.

[R11Loaded]

Dortmund's rise was great, their fall has been greater.


Class doesn't show on a maroon jersey

[Mikey]

Their numbers for 2014 are here.....

http://www.forbes.com/teams/borussia-dortmund/

$184m in broadcasting revenue must come in handy!

If you're looking for someone to blame when it comes to TV revenue in Scotland try pointing the finger at Sky TV.

[Billy Whizz]

Their numbers for 2014 are here.....

http://www.forbes.com/teams/borussia-dortmund/

$184m in broadcasting revenue must come in handy!

If you're looking for someone to blame when it comes to TV revenue in Scotland try pointing the finger at Sky TV.

Everton earned £88m from broadcasting in the last season, out of a Turnover of just over £120m. What chance do Scottish teams have to compete
Hope the link works
http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/everton-chairman-bill-kenwright-hails-8025902

[Lago]

Everton earned £88m from broadcasting in the last season, out of a Turnover of just over £120m. What chance do Scottish teams have to compete
Hope the link works
http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/everton-chairman-bill-kenwright-hails-8025902
No chance at all, but it is all about market forces and unfortunately no one outside Scotland is interested in watching Scottish football, truth be told many people in Scotland can't be bothered watching Scottish football.

[NAE NOOKIE]

Their numbers for 2014 are here.....

http://www.forbes.com/teams/borussia-dortmund/

$184m in broadcasting revenue must come in handy!

If you're looking for someone to blame when it comes to TV revenue in Scotland try pointing the finger at Sky TV.

If it was up to me SKY and BT would be banned from showing live EPL matches in Scotland within 5 hours of any SPFL fixture. They should be confined to an 'as live' delayed transmission. The amount of money they contribute to Scottish football is pitiful compared to what they must take out in SKY and BT sport subscriptions.

I have no doubt whatsoever that the availability of wall to wall EPL football in Scotland over the last 20 years has contributed to the demise of our game. Kids, not to mention a fair number of adults who should know better, watch £100,000 per week players 3 times in a weekend playing in mostly packed stadiums and think that's what Scottish football should be like. When they realise its not they lose interest.

Even when I was a kid you might see someone with a Man Utd or Liverpool top on coz that was their 'English team' ... but nowadays kids wearing EPL tops are more likely to say they support these clubs to the exclusion of a Scottish team.

IMO it is high time that the SPFL / SFA .... or even Scottish Government .... conducted a study into SKYs affect on our game. If such a study didn't back up my theory fine ... I am willing to bet good money that it would though.

[Lago]

If it was up to me SKY and BT would be banned from showing live EPL matches in Scotland within 5 hours of any SPFL fixture. They should be confined to an 'as live' delayed transmission. The amount of money they contribute to Scottish football is pitiful compared to what they must take out in SKY and BT sport subscriptions.

I have no doubt whatsoever that the availability of wall to wall EPL football in Scotland over the last 20 years has contributed to the demise of our game. Kids, not to mention a fair number of adults who should know better, watch £100,000 per week players 3 times in a weekend playing in mostly packed stadiums and think that's what Scottish football should be like. When they realise its not they lose interest.

Even when I was a kid you might see someone with a Man Utd or Liverpool top on coz that was their 'English team' ... but nowadays kids wearing EPL tops are more likely to say they support these clubs to the exclusion of a Scottish team.

IMO it is high time that the SPFL / SFA .... or even Scottish Government .... conducted a study into SKYs affect on our game. If such a study didn't back up my theory fine ... I am willing to bet good money that it would though.
Spot on, but any action now is too late the horse has bolted.

[SneakersO'Toole]

I was in Hamburg last weekend for a mates stag do. We went to a St.Pauli game on the Saturday. It was exactly how football should be in every way IMO.

[R11Loaded]

In Dortmund and even england you can buy alcohol in the stadium too, if we could do that people would be in better spirits.

The casuals aren't as prominent anymore.


Class doesn't show on a maroon jersey

[Eyrie]

No chance at all, but it is all about market forces and unfortunately no one outside Scotland is interested in watching Scottish football, truth be told many people in Scotland can't be bothered watching Scottish football.

I'll be honest and admit I only watch Scottish football if we're playing.

[NAE NOOKIE]

No chance at all, but it is all about market forces and unfortunately no one outside Scotland is interested in watching Scottish football, truth be told many people in Scotland can't be bothered watching Scottish football.

Or Norwegian football, or Greek football, or Swedish football or Danish football or Polish football or Portuguese football etc, etc, etc. The only football folk seem interested in is English, Spanish, German and to a lesser extent Italian football and the blame for that can be laid squarely at the door of satellite and cable TV and UEFA. Folk around Europe in countries like Scotland go to work on Monday talking about the football they watched on the telly at the weekend ... but there is no encouragement for these same folk to go to games when they can watch the best players in the world from the comfort of their living room.

TV money has enabled the rich to get richer, making what was already a hard task even harder for those countries outside the big 5 if you include France. Look at the crowds in Europe outside of the big 5, as is the case in Scotland if you take out the 2 or 3 biggest clubs crowds fall away dramatically .... even Italy and France suffer in that way to a lesser extent.

You cant blame FAs for taking the big bucks. But UEFA instead of considering their duty to all of European football have allowed TV companies to dictate the format of European competition to the extent that seeding will ensure that the big clubs, who already had an advantage will keep and build on that advantage and therefor monopolise the Lion's share of UEFA TV revenue.

TV might be good for the big counties and clubs like Borussia Dortmund, but IMO its destroying domestic football in the smaller countries.

[ekhibee]

Dortmund's rise was great, their fall has been greater.


Class doesn't show on a maroon jersey
Yep, they're in the bottom 3 now.

[MWHIBBIES]

Dortmund's rise was great, their fall has been greater.


Class doesn't show on a maroon jerseyThey are still a top team, just been absolutely ravaged by injuries.

[PeeJay]

They are still a top team, just been absolutely ravaged by injuries.

Too simple an assessment IMO, they have a big enough squad with quality players, the team was outstanding in the 1st half against Bayern, and it has been playing very well in the Champion's League - it's strangely in the Bundelsiga that they make more basic mistakes than even we do and they fail mainly to score, despite so many chances ... bit of an enigma really - a top team, plays some brilliant football and then gets beat, it'll be interesting to see how they work this losing streak out of their system ...

[ian cruise]

Or Norwegian football, or Greek football, or Swedish football or Danish football or Polish football or Portuguese football etc, etc, etc. The only football folk seem interested in is English, Spanish, German and to a lesser extent Italian football and the blame for that can be laid squarely at the door of satellite and cable TV and UEFA. Folk around Europe in countries like Scotland go to work on Monday talking about the football they watched on the telly at the weekend ... but there is no encouragement for these same folk to go to games when they can watch the best players in the world from the comfort of their living room.

Not disagreeing with you but your but along with a few others has raised a question for me. When I was young channel 4 used to show serie A which was getting touted as the best league in the world at the time, however I don't remember lots of people having an Italian team and certainly most folk I know followed their Scottish team with a lot more loyalty than some do now.

The argument that having access to English football via Sky is making people lose interest in Scottish football is a completely valid one, I'm just wondering what the difference is now compared to then when more people would have had access to the "better" league given it was one council telly? Is it because it was just highlights, or was on early Sunday morning or later at night, or is it just that Sky have marketed their leagues better so people believe them when they tell us these are the leagues to watch?

[s.a.m]

Not disagreeing with you but your but along with a few others has raised a question for me. When I was young channel 4 used to show serie A which was getting touted as the best league in the world at the time, however I don't remember lots of people having an Italian team and certainly most folk I know followed their Scottish team with a lot more loyalty than some do now.

The argument that having access to English football via Sky is making people lose interest in Scottish football is a completely valid one, I'm just wondering what the difference is now compared to then when more people would have had access to the "better" league given it was one council telly? Is it because it was just highlights, or was on early Sunday morning or later at night, or is it just that Sky have marketed their leagues better so people believe them when they tell us these are the leagues to watch?

I think the difference is probably the sheer volume of live TV football now compared to the Channel 4, Serie A days. That was a one game a week novelty, with highlights, and it was an interesting insight into another league. What's more (IIRC), they weren't allowed to show the game in Scotland if there was a domestic (any of the 4 leagues) game on; this was the case with all other live football as well. I think you're probably right about the marketing of the EPL having a big effect, too.

[Billy McKirdy]

I think attendances are probably proportionate to performances and results.
I remember really low attendances in the late 70s early 80s at home of 4/5 thousand and there was no satellite or cable tv then, I think we don't do too badly compared to the Arabs or Well for instance, sure, we should be aiming for 11/12k every home game at least but 9/10k seems to our average.

If we did suddenly half our admission prices, how much do you really think would be added to the gate?

Would it suddenly double or would we be lucky to gain a couple of thousand more?

[Keith_M]

If BD get relegated, I'd be interested to see how many of the '1,000 English people' still go to see them

We'll find out then how much of it is the great day out and the fantastic prices and how much is just glory hunting.

[NAE NOOKIE]

I think the difference is probably the sheer volume of live TV football now compared to the Channel 4, Serie A days. That was a one game a week novelty, with highlights, and it was an interesting insight into another league. What's more (IIRC), they weren't allowed to show the game in Scotland if there was a domestic (any of the 4 leagues) game on; this was the case with all other live football as well. I think you're probably right about the marketing of the EPL having a big effect, too.

That's my opinion too. As Ian Cruise says in his post, the marketing of the EPL by SKY and now BT has been fierce. Still have a wee soft spot for Fiorentina from the old Channel 4 days.

[PPZPOL]

That's my opinion too. As Ian Cruise says in his post, the marketing of the EPL by SKY and now BT has been fierce. Still have a wee soft spot for Fiorentina from the old Channel 4 days.

"Bati-goal" was a goal machine.

I used to do my homework during the Serie A live games on a Sunday (hence my poor grades probably!). Loved they Sundays, good times. Inter was my team, no other reason than hating AC Milan.

Was down at Newcastle/Liverpool at weekend, thats what I would class as a big game in Newcastle's calendar yet standard wasn't amazing and atmosphere nothing to get excited about either. Some of the games in that EPL must be shocking but the money behind marketing has convinced us all that its the best thing since sliced bread. The analysis is top notch (Sky) I would have to say and more often than not better than the actual game. I think the standard of Scottish footballfootball compared with England considering the gulf in money is really good tbh. As soon as someone says they don't go to games as Scottish football is pants I tend to just turn off from whatever nuggets of football knowledge they seem keen on telling me, not interested what they have to say.

[jacomo]

Dortmund's rise was great, their fall has been greater.


Class doesn't show on a maroon jersey

As far as I know they're not teetering on the edge of bankruptcy again, as they were in 2008, so this isn't really true.

They have lost their top players in consecutive seasons and the goals have dried up. It happens. I am sure they will find their firm again before too long.

[green&left]

If BD get relegated, I'd be interested to see how many of the '1,000 English people' still go to see them

We'll find out then how much of it is the great day out and the fantastic prices and how much is just glory hunting.

Probably the same.

I've been to see Eintracht Frankfurt a couple of times and hopefully get across again to see them soon.

The standard of football on offer is ok but the way they watch their football is second to none :flag:

[The_Exile]

That's my opinion too. As Ian Cruise says in his post, the marketing of the EPL by SKY and now BT has been fierce. Still have a wee soft spot for Fiorentina from the old Channel 4 days.


GGGOOOOOOOOLACCIO!!! That Fiorentina team was incredible, Batigol, Rui Costa, Edmundo, Oliviera, Robbiati, Amoruso, loved watching Serie A during that era.

[southern hibby]

Now I'm not claiming what I say next would happen however ( and yes I'm probably opening a can of worms BUT ) we need to offer sky / BT Sports something that England doesn't.

If we had Summer football I believe that Sky / BTSports would be falling over themselves to show our games. This would allow the TV companies to have football shown all year round, which would bring I'n a vast more superior amount I'n TV revenues for our leagues.

I believe we would also see a vast superior attendance at games because there are more chance of people going to games I'n warm weather than I'n the middle of winter. Kids have all their computer games etc and a large number don't want to go out I'n the cold etc when they can play them indoors.

Also this would give our teams ( hopefully ) a better chance I'n Europe as we could have X amount of games under our belt and not just several pre-season before starting on our European Tour. If you use Sweden as an example they seem to get into qualifying stages easier than Scottish teams.

I really don't know if it would be advantageous or not. However I feel that if enough research went into it by the SFA then may be worth a shout if the numbers add up.

GGTTH

[Alex Trager]

Now I'm not claiming what I say next would happen however ( and yes I'm probably opening a can of worms BUT ) we need to offer sky / BT Sports something that England doesn't.

If we had Summer football I believe that Sky / BTSports would be falling over themselves to show our games. This would allow the TV companies to have football shown all year round, which would bring I'n a vast more superior amount I'n TV revenues for our leagues.

I believe we would also see a vast superior attendance at games because there are more chance of people going to games I'n warm weather than I'n the middle of winter. Kids have all their computer games etc and a large number don't want to go out I'n the cold etc when they can play them indoors.

Also this would give our teams ( hopefully ) a better chance I'n Europe as we could have X amount of games under our belt and not just several pre-season before starting on our European Tour. If you use Sweden as an example they seem to get into qualifying stages easier than Scottish teams.

I really don't know if it would be advantageous or not. However I feel that if enough research went into it by the SFA then may be worth a shout if the numbers add up.

GGTTH

All good points I must admit

[Time For Heroes]

Now I'm not claiming what I say next would happen however ( and yes I'm probably opening a can of worms BUT ) we need to offer sky / BT Sports something that England doesn't.

If we had Summer football I believe that Sky / BTSports would be falling over themselves to show our games. This would allow the TV companies to have football shown all year round, which would bring I'n a vast more superior amount I'n TV revenues for our leagues.

I believe we would also see a vast superior attendance at games because there are more chance of people going to games I'n warm weather than I'n the middle of winter. Kids have all their computer games etc and a large number don't want to go out I'n the cold etc when they can play them indoors.

Also this would give our teams ( hopefully ) a better chance I'n Europe as we could have X amount of games under our belt and not just several pre-season before starting on our European Tour. If you use Sweden as an example they seem to get into qualifying stages easier than Scottish teams.

I really don't know if it would be advantageous or not. However I feel that if enough research went into it by the SFA then may be worth a shout if the numbers add up.

GGTTH
Excellent Post IMO

[Haymaker]

If we had Summer football I believe that Sky / BTSports would be falling over themselves to show our games. This would allow the TV companies to have football shown all year round, which would bring I'n a vast more superior amount I'n TV revenues for our leagues.

I believe we would also see a vast superior attendance at games because there are more chance of people going to games I'n warm weather than I'n the middle of winter. Kids have all their computer games etc and a large number don't want to go out I'n the cold etc when they can play them indoors.

Also this would give our teams ( hopefully ) a better chance I'n Europe as we could have X amount of games under our belt and not just several pre-season before starting on our European Tour. If you use Sweden as an example they seem to get into qualifying stages easier than Scottish teams.

I really don't know if it would be advantageous or not. However I feel that if enough research went into it by the SFA then may be worth a shout if the numbers add up.

GGTTH

If we had summer football we would have, roughly, 3 months where there was no English football - interrupted every other year by Englands involvement in a World or European championship (and possibly Scotlands involvement if we qualify). Our league would have to start somewhere around February and end somewhere in November, so only the gap between English football being Mid-May to Mid- August.

We would still have to go to games in the cold and wet, just at the beginning and end of the season rather than in the middle. Who would want to win the SC in the pissing cold wind and rain in late November? Attendances might increase slightly in the summer months however if we are still playing ***** football they wont. Attendances climb with success on the park, not weather IMO.

As someone who has grown up in England and also works in English football, the level of ignorance to the Scottish game is huge. Most people I meet have no knowledge about it and generally refer to English football as "mickey mouse" or "****". I firmly disagree that SKY or BT Sports would fall over themselves for a few games every year. It may increase revenues slightly however I don't believe it would be drastic or vast improvement on what we receive now.

If SKY or BT thought there was a significant demand for summer football they would be stuffing the Scandinavian leagues down or throats or South American leagues - there simply isn't a demand for it IMO. The majority of English football fans switch off and either watch cricket or another summer type sport. Again, from personal experience, the English have no time for Scottish football, most watch Spanish or German highlights but not a live Scottish game. I generally refer to myself as a West Ham supporter as I have gotten bored of explaining that Hibernian FC are actually a football club and the Scottish league isn't just The Rangers and Celtc (also, my opinion on football is received better).

The idea we would do better in Europe is true, we might struggle if we continue in Europe round until February where we would be starting the season again but swings and roundabouts!

I fully agree that Scottish football needs a massive change and overhaul but summer football is not, imo, the answer to our problems.

[NAE NOOKIE]

Now I'm not claiming what I say next would happen however ( and yes I'm probably opening a can of worms BUT ) we need to offer sky / BT Sports something that England doesn't.

If we had Summer football I believe that Sky / BTSports would be falling over themselves to show our games. This would allow the TV companies to have football shown all year round, which would bring I'n a vast more superior amount I'n TV revenues for our leagues.

I believe we would also see a vast superior attendance at games because there are more chance of people going to games I'n warm weather than I'n the middle of winter. Kids have all their computer games etc and a large number don't want to go out I'n the cold etc when they can play them indoors.

Also this would give our teams ( hopefully ) a better chance I'n Europe as we could have X amount of games under our belt and not just several pre-season before starting on our European Tour. If you use Sweden as an example they seem to get into qualifying stages easier than Scottish teams.

I really don't know if it would be advantageous or not. However I feel that if enough research went into it by the SFA then may be worth a shout if the numbers add up.# GGTTH

There's been many a discussion on here about this SH ..... I am firmly in the camp that supports trying summer football for the reasons you have given here ( especially the TV one ) and a number of others, including:

You don't need to pay to use undersoil heating
You don't need floodlights as much
Folk can wear that expensive Hibs top without 2 layers underneath and a coat on top
You can sit outside to drink your pint
The pitches will be 100% better
Travel to games is easier
Hibs ... based in a huge tourist destination ... can finally tap into that market, which for some reason they have ignored

[NAE NOOKIE]

If we had summer football we would have, roughly, 3 months where there was no English football - interrupted every other year by Englands involvement in a World or European championship (and possibly Scotlands involvement if we qualify). Our league would have to start somewhere around February and end somewhere in November, so only the gap between English football being Mid-May to Mid- August.

We would still have to go to games in the cold and wet, just at the beginning and end of the season rather than in the middle. Who would want to win the SC in the pissing cold wind and rain in late November? Attendances might increase slightly in the summer months however if we are still playing ***** football they wont. Attendances climb with success on the park, not weather IMO.

As someone who has grown up in England and also works in English football, the level of ignorance to the Scottish game is huge. Most people I meet have no knowledge about it and generally refer to English football as "mickey mouse" or "****". I firmly disagree that SKY or BT Sports would fall over themselves for a few games every year. It may increase revenues slightly however I don't believe it would be drastic or vast improvement on what we receive now.

If SKY or BT thought there was a significant demand for summer football they would be stuffing the Scandinavian leagues down or throats or South American leagues - there simply isn't a demand for it IMO. The majority of English football fans switch off and either watch cricket or another summer type sport. Again, from personal experience, the English have no time for Scottish football, most watch Spanish or German highlights but not a live Scottish game. I generally refer to myself as a West Ham supporter as I have gotten bored of explaining that Hibernian FC are actually a football club and the Scottish league isn't just The Rangers and Celtc (also, my opinion on football is received better).

The idea we would do better in Europe is true, we might struggle if we continue in Europe round until February where we would be starting the season again but swings and roundabouts!

I fully agree that Scottish football needs a massive change and overhaul but summer football is not, imo, the answer to our problems.

You make some good points Haymaker. But the highlighted bit, especially the bit in brackets http://www.hibs.net/images/smilies/no%20way.gif.......... as a Hibby you must be aware of the motto of Leith.

[Haymaker]

There's been many a discussion on here about this SH ..... I am firmly in the camp that supports trying summer football for the reasons you have given here ( especially the TV one ) and a number of others, including:

You don't need to pay to use undersoil heating
You don't need floodlights as much
Folk can wear that expensive Hibs top without 2 layers underneath and a coat on top
You can sit outside to drink your pint
The pitches will be 100% better
Travel to games is easier
Hibs ... based in a huge tourist destination ... can finally tap into that market, which for some reason they have ignored

I agree with all but the one in bold NN - If it is a bitter, wet winter when we start in mid-February, we could rip the pitch to shreds before the grass growing season/nicer weather.

Although with money saved on floodlights and US heating (which would only be needed for the first and last few home games) you could reinvest it into a better standard of pitch/more groundstaff I suppose. :agree:

[Haymaker]

You make some good points Haymaker. But the highlighted bit, especially the bit in brackets http://www.hibs.net/images/smilies/no%20way.gif.......... as a Hibby you must be aware of the motto of Leith.

Depends on the person I am talking to. The usual donut in the pub I cant be bothered to explain it! :greengrin

[green&left]

The only reason there is the gulf between English & Scottish football these days is 100% down to Sky Sports and other broadcasting companies. Now people want to re-structure our entire setup to allow Sky & BT better broadcasting revenue. Couldn't make it up.

Personally i'd rather we got the TV cameras to **** as opposed to shifting our league round to suit them.

[southern hibby]

S,

Unfortunately we need cash to buy / pay players, pay overheads and I'n general compete against lower English teams when it comes to getting signatures.

I'm not saying my way is correct but I do believe it would bring money ( that is desperately needed ) to our game.

If you have ideas on how to bring this money into our ge then please enlighten us.

One thing I do know is our game is stagnant and has been for numerous years now. We have an international team not qualified for anything since 98 ( however they are playing well at present ) we have an SFA that are only interested on the Ugly Sisters and something needs done.

GGTTH

[DC_Hibs]

Thankfully we don't encourage this type of ph@nny to our games like the cheque book clubs down south
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2823468/Manchester-City-fan-puts-disappointment-crumbling-Champions-League-campaign-one-makes-peanut-butter-sandwich-Etihad-City-lose-CSKA.html

Surprised he put his camera phone down for long enough to make his pieces!

Deary me.

[green&left]

S,

Unfortunately we need cash to buy / pay players, pay overheads and I'n general compete against lower English teams when it comes to getting signatures.

I'm not saying my way is correct but I do believe it would bring money ( that is desperately needed ) to our game.

If you have ideas on how to bring this money into our ge then please enlighten us.

One thing I do know is our game is stagnant and has been for numerous years now. We have an international team not qualified for anything since 98 ( however they are playing well at present ) we have an SFA that are only interested on the Ugly Sisters and something needs done.

GGTTH

I'm not convinced it would bring in any more money, especially seeing as there is absolute no competition from other broadcasters, they won't significantly improve the deal because they simply don't need to. Pus St Mirren v Aberdeen for an English punter would be like us watching Colchester v Swindon, and how many of us would tune in for that?

In 2011/12 we (SPL) had the 9th largest attendances in Europe and had the largest percentage of population going to matches (1.65%).

Regards to the last point the game has stagnated nationally however I don't see what changing the league timings would do to fix that. And the very last point about SFA only being interested in der hun and sellick - there was proposals put forward and meetings had after the huns died about changing the 11-1 voting structure which Aberdeen blocked and further meetings after that about league reconstruction which St Mirren and Ross County blocked.

[green&left]

Thankfully we don't encourage this type of ph@nny to our games like the cheque book clubs down south
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2823468/Manchester-City-fan-puts-disappointment-crumbling-Champions-League-campaign-one-makes-peanut-butter-sandwich-Etihad-City-lose-CSKA.html

Surprised he put his camera phone down for long enough to make his pieces!

Deary me.

Not surprised in the slightest.

One of the guys I work with is an ex-City season ticket holder and now compares going to the games like going to Alton Towers. Coach trips of dafties out for a day out who havn't been to a game in their puff walking about in half city half man utd scarfs etc.

They also had to do buy one get one free on tickets for the CSKA game (Priced at only £25 aswell!!!)

[southern hibby]

S,

We will probably never find out if summer football would bring I'n money or not, because as much as I would like it to happen I can't see it ever being voted I'n.

One thing I do know is something radical needs to be done because our game is stagnating and has been as I've already stated for years.

GGTTH

[tamig]

Good article by Graham Hunter on Dortmund's fortunes this season so far;

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2817349/Jurgen-Klopp-counted-lift-Borussia-Dortmund-doldrums.html

[NAE NOOKIE]

Just to inject a wee bit of sunshine into the subject.

Lets not dismiss the fact that last season Aberdeen, Dundee Utd and St Johnstone took what was for them huge followings to the League and Scottish cup finals ..... Utd's was a club record.

I know that finals bring out the armchair fans, but the positive thing is that these people had enough interest to turn out for their clubs on the day. Enough folk were bothered about Hibs for 18,000 to turn out for the Hamilton game.

Folk out there still like Scottish football and identify with their clubs. There is still a market to be tapped into, if we can find a way to do it.

[PeeJay]

Just to inject a wee bit of sunshine into the subject.

Lets not dismiss the fact that last season Aberdeen, Dundee Utd and St Johnstone took what was for them huge followings to the League and Scottish cup finals ..... Utd's was a club record.

I know that finals bring out the armchair fans, but the positive thing is that these people had enough interest to turn out for their clubs on the day. Enough folk were bothered about Hibs for 18,000 to turn out for the Hamilton game.

Folk out there still like Scottish football and identify with their clubs. There is still a market to be tapped into, if we can find a way to do it.

Says it all really - improve the football, make it more competitive, and cater more to the fans, i.e. stop the ridiculous KO times and dates and let them drink a beer inside the stadium - it's not and never has been anything to do with the weather. Personally, I'd get rid of the tv as well, but that's almost as likely as us winning the SC, I guess.

[DC_Hibs]

Good article by Graham Hunter on Dortmund's fortunes this season so far;

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2817349/Jurgen-Klopp-counted-lift-Borussia-Dortmund-doldrums.html

Hard to take seriously when some slaver adds the following caption to a photo in the article.
"Dortmund’s Westfalenstadion has arguably the most boisterous atmosphere of any ground in Europe"

Authorities on world football from the comfort of their own armchair.

[tamig]

Hard to take seriously when some slaver adds the following caption to a photo in the article.
"Dortmund’s Westfalenstadion has arguably the most boisterous atmosphere of any ground in Europe"

Authorities on world football from the comfort of their own armchair.
To be fair, I think that's an observation made by many fans and commentators who've taken in a game in that magnificent arena.
Not sure how the caption deflects from Graham Hunter's article though.

[DC_Hibs]

To be fair, I think that's an observation made by many fans and commentators who've taken in a game in that magnificent arena.
Not sure how the caption deflects from Graham Hunter's article though.

And what are they comparing it to then. Spl/epl or europes top games?

Agreed before its a great stadium but praising their fans would be laughed at in germany

[PeeJay]

And what are they comparing it to then. Spl/epl or europes top games?

Agreed before its a great stadium but praising their fans would be laughed at in germany

No it wouldn't (although maybe the fans "Auf Schalke"!) - otherwise we (in Germany) know what a great atmosphere there is in the Westfalenstadion, it's a great place to play and enjoy football, can't think why you would think it is anything else? What are you judging your opinion on then? It may not be "the best" but it is certainly up there ... IMO

[hibsbollah]

All this talk about how money rules football completely ignores whats happening in Ligue 1 this season. Olympique Marseille is 4 points clear of the moneybags at PSG despite spending about a tenth of what the gulf money fueled Parisians have spent on players. (Allez OM tomorrow in le classique!) Also who would have thought Celtic would be languishing in midtable behind Hamilton ICT etc in November? (Cmon the sheep the morn).

There is hope.

[Onceinawhile]

Bottom of the league at the moment. If only we were more like them.

[tamig]

And what are they comparing it to then. Spl/epl or europes top games?

Agreed before its a great stadium but praising their fans would be laughed at in germany

Not really sure what point you're trying to make. That ground is generally acknowledged to be one of the most atmospheric in world football - compared to anywhere. And the Dortmund fans are a huge part of that. What do you know about how the Dortmund fans are perceived in Germany? Would be interested to know.

http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11946/8668725/fans-stadium-success-why-are-borussia-dortmund-not-seen-as-european-giants

[DC_Hibs]

Not really sure what point you're trying to make. That ground is generally acknowledged to be one of the most atmospheric in world football - compared to anywhere. And the Dortmund fans are a huge part of that. What do you know about how the Dortmund fans are perceived in Germany? Would be interested to know.

http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11946/8668725/fans-stadium-success-why-are-borussia-dortmund-not-seen-as-european-giants

Lived in Frankfurt for five and a half years and followed them home and away and still go back over plenty.....with loads of others from Edinburgh making the trip also. Have also been to Fenerbache/Galatasaray, Krakow derby, Belgrade derby and Zagreb/Split (and Boca/River outwith Europe) so I know enough about decent atmospheres. There's plenty other fans far better than them in Germany.....and without a large percentage of gloryhunters....and British daytrippers.

I'm fed up reading about how good their fans are when those making comparisons are basing it on champions league TV normally.

Common song from away fans there - "Wo ist denn die Gelbe Wand ihr wichser"

Translates as where's the yellow wall you *******.

Regards

[DC_Hibs]

No it wouldn't (although maybe the fans "Auf Schalke"!) - otherwise we (in Germany) know what a great atmosphere there is in the Westfalenstadion, it's a great place to play and enjoy football, can't think why you would think it is anything else? What are you judging your opinion on then? It may not be "the best" but it is certainly up there ... IMO




See previous reply and it's also the opinion of Frankfurt friends mainly with no grudge to bear against Dortmund when I tell them about OTT press coverage in the UK about Dortmund fans.

I've been to away games with a fraction of the 80k crowds in Dortmund and far better atmosphere.
Based on being in 95% of stadiums in the top two leagues and many others in addition.

[NAE NOOKIE]

Lived in Frankfurt for five and a half years and followed them home and away and still go back over plenty.....with loads of others from Edinburgh making the trip also. Have also been to Fenerbache/Galatasaray, Krakow derby, Belgrade derby and Zagreb/Split (and Boca/River outwith Europe) so I know enough about decent atmospheres. There's plenty other fans far better than them in Germany.....and without a large percentage of gloryhunters....and British daytrippers.

I'm fed up reading about how good their fans are when those making comparisons are basing it on champions league TV normally.

Common song from away fans there - "Wo ist denn die Gelbe Wand ihr wichser"

Translates as where's the yellow wall you *******.

Regards

If we finally manage to get a singing / standing section in the FF will it be the Green Dyke :greengrin