Penalty kick deciders

[emerald green]

I dislike penalty kick deciders as a way of deciding matches (and not just since last night!). They are just a lottery.

Just a suggestion, but how about instead of penalties the match stats are used to decide the winner after a draw after 90 minutes and extra time in cup ties? Would this be too complicated?

Last night's stats:

Possession Hibs/ Dundee Utd = H51/DU49
Shots = H24/DU15
On target = H13/DU6
Corners = H8/DU7
Fouls = H9/DU14
Yellow cards = H1/DU3

Yet Hibs are out and Dundee Utd go through.

I'm pretty sure once upon a time corner kicks were used to decide the outcome of drawn matches.

[Jonnyboy]

I dislike penalty kick deciders as a way of deciding matches (and not just since last night!). They are just a lottery.

Just a suggestion, but how about instead of penalties the match stats are used to decide the winner after a draw after 90 minutes and extra time in cup ties? Would this be too complicated?

Last night's stats:

Possession Hibs/ Dundee Utd = H51/DU49
Shots = H24/DU15
On target = H13/DU6
Corners = H8/DU7
Fouls = H9/DU14
Yellow cards = H1/DU3

Yet Hibs are out and Dundee Utd go through.

I'm pretty sure once upon a time corner kicks were used to decide the outcome of drawn matches.

That's correct but it was many, many moons ago

[Matt92]

I love penalty shoot-outs...they are probably the most entertaining thing on football. You end up with games where teams are getting battered for 90 minutes hanging on for dear life and then they make it to the utter jubilation of their supporters.

Your team will always have a chance if the scores are level or you are just one down.

[lyonhibs]

Lies , damned lies and statistics I think.

Penalties is just the way it's sorted in cup games or playoffs.

I can't think of a better way to be honest.

[Kato]

I love penalty shoot-outs...they are probably the most entertaining thing on football.


errm, nup.

[hibeemikey21]

I've always thought the run from halfway with a 10 second countdown would be better entertainment than pens. Certainly more nerve wracking!

[jodjam]

That's correct but it was many, many moons ago

Sure we won or lost on corners in a coronation cup tie v the auld huns

[3pm]

More chance for the underdog with pens. Just look at Utd last night...

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

Hibs used to be immense in penalty shoot outs, thats two in about 5 months we've lost now.

[Jonnyboy]

Sure we won or lost on corners in a coronation cup tie v the auld huns

:agree:

[Jonnyboy]

Hibs used to be immense in penalty shoot outs, thats two in about 5 months we've lost now.

It's the only two domestic shootouts we've ever lost, sadly

[O'Rourke3]

It's the only two domestic shootouts we've ever lost, sadly

We've lost 3 in total. Jonnyboy I suspect you like me witnessed all of them. Buuuuut, I have never been at one where we won :tin hat: and you probably have been.

[Billy Whizz]

We've lost 3 in total. Jonnyboy I suspect you like me witnessed all of them. Buuuuut, I have never been at one where we won :tin hat: and you probably have been.

I'm trying to remember the ones I've been at in recent times when we've one
Against Clyde I think at Broadwood when McLeish was manager
Against Rangers at Hampden around 2003/2004 when Williamson was in charge
Against Motherwell around 3 years ago

[Jonnyboy]

We've lost 3 in total. Jonnyboy I suspect you like me witnessed all of them. Buuuuut, I have never been at one where we won :tin hat: and you probably have been.

Was the third v Leeds and so not a domestic game?

[Jonnyboy]

I'm trying to remember the ones I've been at in recent times when we've one
Against Clyde I think at Broadwood when McLeish was manager
Against Rangers at Hampden around 2003/2004 when Williamson was in charge
Against Motherwell around 3 years ago

Here's another one Billy




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QlSlja_dfsY

[3pm]

Beat Partick back in 93.

[grunt]

This was a good one


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVnigShdkZ4

[snooky]

The trouble with penalty shoot outs is that the taker is expected to score and if he doesn't then there's too much a negative slant to it.

I've always felt that the kick should be taken from the 18 yard line so that it would be more a 50/50 chance of scoring.

[My_Wife_Camille]

The only fair and honest way to settle a game after 30 minutes of normal extra time is open ended golden goal. Swap ends every 15 minutes until somebody scores. Would stop teams defending their way through tournament like The Huns, Greece and Costa Rica have done recently.

[snooky]

The only fair and honest way to settle a game after 30 minutes of normal extra time is open ended golden goal. Swap ends every 15 minutes until somebody scores. Would stop teams defending their way through tournament like The Huns, Greece and Costa Rica have done recently.

In the NHL they reduce the nos. of skaters on the ice (IIRC).
Makes the game more open during extra time.
I liked the golden goal idea too.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

It's the only two domestic shootouts we've ever lost, sadly

Aye, thats what I was meaning, what is the 3rd that has been mentioned?

[MWHIBBIES]

The only fair and honest way to settle a game after 30 minutes of normal extra time is open ended golden goal. Swap ends every 15 minutes until somebody scores. Would stop teams defending their way through tournament like The Huns, Greece and Costa Rica have done recently.Tactically 2 of the best teams I've ever seen in international tournaments and both deserved every success they got. There are different ways to play football other than attacking at every opportunity, may not be pretty but it works.

[Jonnyboy]

Aye, thats what I was meaning, what is the 3rd that has been mentioned?

Leeds in the Fairs Cup, I think

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

Before my time, well not quite but, you know what I mean. I thought we were going to get involved in young team games at Fisherrow and such like!

[TRC]

Five a side any man in full sized pitch way forward

[Centre Hawf]

I remember back a few years ago FIFA were looking into different options that were more focussed on a team aspect rather than the PK's individual talent. One option i quite liked was changing penalties to corners. It probably would never work but their reasoning for suggesting it was that for a set piece to work almost everyone in the team has to be switched on and the best team on the night would go through

For me Penalties is a very good way to do it and I hope they don't change it.

[greenlex]

Golden goal is my choice. I could have watched that all night last night.

[PeeJay]

I dislike penalty kick deciders as a way of deciding matches (and not just since last night!). They are just a lottery.

Just a suggestion, but how about instead of penalties the match stats are used to decide the winner after a draw after 90 minutes and extra time in cup ties? Would this be too complicated?

Last night's stats:

Possession Hibs/ Dundee Utd = H51/DU49
Shots = H24/DU15
On target = H13/DU6
Corners = H8/DU7
Fouls = H9/DU14
Yellow cards = H1/DU3

Yet Hibs are out and Dundee Utd go through.

I'm pretty sure once upon a time corner kicks were used to decide the outcome of drawn matches.

There is no fair way to decide it if replays are not wanted - a penalty kick shoot out is certainly a "lottery", but it's a lot more exciting than your suggestion, which need not necessarily be any "fairer" - the only statistics that matter are goals for v. goals against ... clubs that don't want to lose out on penalties should do the business beforehand - you mentioned corners as a deciding factor, if I recall they used to also toss a coin "Heads or tails ..."

[nonshinyfinish]

Heads and volleys with a tennis ball is the only truly fair decider.

[snedzuk]

If its an old firm final then how about good old fashioned duelling pistols.

[LaMotta]

Penalties are nothing like a lottery because a lottery is 100 percent luck.

Penalties require a degree of skill and mental toughness with a bit of luck thrown in and therefore could be described more like a game of shorthanded turbo poker!

[emerald green]

Obviously opinions vary widely on this topic. There's no easy answer it seems.

One way of doing away with penalties is to go back to having a replay if a cup tie is still drawn AET. Even that wouldn't suit everyone I suppose. Penalty shoot outs were introduced to do away with the need for replays presumably? I'm not sure.

Just as an aside, I recall Steaua Bucharest winning the old European Cup back in the 1980s beating Barcelona 2-0 on penalties in the final. What a mockery SB made of that final IIRC. They had no intention of playing for anything other than penalties, and sadly it worked.

[Stevie Reid]

I can't see anything wrong with penalties at all, and they're certainly not a lottery. Indeed, do penalties, in a sense, not capture the essence of football - a striker vs a goalkeeper? Taking penalties is a definite skill and the perfect way to decide a match.

FWIW, I remember Hibs beating Clydebank on pens at ER under Alex Miller, Andy Goram scored the decisive penalty.

[TheHarpy76]

I dislike penalty kick deciders as a way of deciding matches (and not just since last night!). They are just a lottery.

Just a suggestion, but how about instead of penalties the match stats are used to decide the winner after a draw after 90 minutes and extra time in cup ties? Would this be too complicated?


Last night's stats:

Possession Hibs/ Dundee Utd = H51/DU49
Shots = H24/DU15
On target = H13/DU6
Corners = H8/DU7
Fouls = H9/DU14
Yellow cards = H1/DU3

Yet Hibs are out and Dundee Utd go through.

I'm pretty sure once upon a time corner kicks were used to decide the outcome of drawn matches.

Would you be complaining about penalty shoot-outs had we won on Wednesday night?

It's the best and most exciting way to resolve a cup tie.
Leave it to stats? Erm...no ta

[Bristolhibby]

Its got to be penalties. Imagine losing on the toss of a coin.

However I like the 20 seconds run at the goalie from the halfway line, like the week laddies at halftime.

Or how about special teams like the NFL. One Penalty take takes all 5. All the pressure, all the glory. Takes two, hands over, takes two then again then the final penalty each?

J

[Sudds_1]

We've lost 3 in total. Jonnyboy I suspect you like me witnessed all of them. Buuuuut, I have never been at one where we won :tin hat: and you probably have been.

Ibrox.............I was at THAT shoot out! What a night.

[Sudds_1]

Ibrox.............I was at THAT shoot out! What a night.

Jeez........old age! I mean Hampden!!!

[Jonnyboy]

We've lost 3 in total. Jonnyboy I suspect you like me witnessed all of them. Buuuuut, I have never been at one where we won :tin hat: and you probably have been.

:agree: :greengrin

[emerald green]

Would you be complaining about penalty shoot-outs had we won on Wednesday night?

It's the best and most exciting way to resolve a cup tie.
Leave it to stats? Erm...no ta

To be fair, I did say I dislike penalty kick deciders as a way of deciding matches (and not just since last night).

Put it this way, it would have been easier to stomach had Hibs won on Wednesday night. :greengrin

[TheHarpy76]

To be fair, I did say I dislike penalty kick deciders as a way of deciding matches (and not just since last night).

Put it this way, it would have been easier to stomach had Hibs won on Wednesday night. :greengrin

Yep, you did indeed say that.
Lesson learned, read the whole post :greengrin

[emerald green]

Yep, you did indeed say that.
Lesson learned, read the whole post :greengrin

No probs mate. Your not the first, and wont be the last to do that, including me! :aok:

[NAE NOOKIE]

Pens are best ........ most exciting thing in football.

If not then have a panel of judges who score the game on style and attacking content.

Judge Preston scores it 10 - 7 Utd
Judge Young scores it 10 - 8 Utd
Judge Thomson scores it 10 - 3 Utd

:greengrin

[O'Rourke3]

Was the third v Leeds and so not a domestic game?

:agree: And were you there?


Leeds in the Fairs Cup, I think

Was it still the Fairs Cup that year. Q for the anoraks, when was it renamed UEFA Cup?

[Jonnyboy]

:agree: And were you there?



Was it still the Fairs Cup that year. Q for the anoraks, when was it renamed UEFA Cup?

I was indeed. Gut wrenching for Pat to miss his kick. He'd placed the ball and turned to walk back as the Ref re-positioned the ball. I still blame the Ref :greengrin

Edit: Renamed in 1971

[O'Rourke3]

I was indeed. Gut wrenching for Pat to miss his kick. He'd placed the ball and turned to walk back as the Ref re-positioned the ball. I still blame the Ref :greengrin

Edit: Renamed in 1971

I don't remember the ref but do remember he'd sent the keeper the wrong way only to see the ball come back off the post. Remember Lorimer stepping up to take the last kick and everyone thinking here come the blaster. Ball trickled under Jim McArthur who somehow manged to dive over it..... Leeds were so negative that night it was untrue - however Bremner played a blinder.

[Jonnyboy]

I don't remember the ref but do remember he'd sent the keeper the wrong way only to see the ball come back off the post. Remember Lorimer stepping up to take the last kick and everyone thinking here come the blaster. Ball trickled under Jim McArthur who somehow manged to dive over it..... Leeds were so negative that night it was untrue - however Bremner played a blinder.

Think it was Clive Thomas from 'neutral' Wales

Edit: I might be confusing this game with another against Dirty Leeds :greengrin:

[O'Rourke3]

Think it was Clive Thomas from 'neutral' Wales

Edit: I might be confusing this game with another against Dirty Leeds :greengrin:

Doubt it, how many pens did Pat miss against them......

Wasn't challenging the ref moving the ball. Forgot or didn't see at the time. Also young and naive enough to think that Revie on the pitch during the extra time changover might result in them getting kicked out the cup.....

[Col2]

I have this sneaky feeling that we will have an end of season play off penalty kicks at tynecastle for the right to play off agains the 11th placed team in SPL.

[SunshineOnLeith]

Using statistics to settle a football match :faf:

Imagine the crowd standing nervously while the fourth official tallies us the shots on target, howls of derision as the shot that Oxley pushed away, but that was heading wide, is adjudged a shot on target. The post-match arguments in the pub "Cannae believe they've called the possession stats against us, by my count we had AT LEAST 52% possession, these statisticians are pure biased, man."

[Macaroon]

Bring out the kiddies goals and have a game of 7 a side heady-handball. ONLY fair way to decide anything in life.

[Speedy]

Pens are best ........ most exciting thing in football.

If not then have a panel of judges who score the game on style and attacking content.

Judge Preston scores it 10 - 7 Utd
Judge Young scores it 10 - 8 Utd
Judge Thomson scores it 10 - 3 Utd

:greengrin

Style, control, damage and aggresion?

http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20091119220329/robotwars/images/2/20/Judgesthinking.jpg

[--------]

Think it was Clive Thomas from 'neutral' Wales

Edit: I might be confusing this game with another against Dirty Leeds :greengrin:


You are indeed, John - Thomas was the cheating Welsh slimeball that sold the game to DLU the first time round. No idea who the dirty cheating slimeball was the second time around.

I do remember that other cheating so-an-so Bremner was yapping away at Pat before Pat took the penalty. I never found out what he was saying, but it wouldn't happen nowadays - the two teams are kept strictly apart throughout the shoot-out.

It wasn't just Hibs who didn't like Thomas. I know he got across Ipswich, Everton, West Ham, Brazil, and the Netherlands. I'm sure there are others out there who loathe the sound of his name.

[Jonnyboy]

You are indeed, John - Thomas was the cheating Welsh slimeball that sold the game to DLU the first time round. No idea who the dirty cheating slimeball was the second time around.

I do remember that other cheating so-an-so Bremner was yapping away at Pat before Pat took the penalty. I never found out what he was saying, but it wouldn't happen nowadays - the two teams are kept strictly apart throughout the shoot-out.

It wasn't just Hibs who didn't like Thomas. I know he got across Ipswich, Everton, West Ham, Brazil, and the Netherlands. I'm sure there are others out there who loathe the sound of his name.

Age is catching me out these days Doddie :greengrin

[PeeJay]

You are indeed, John - Thomas was the cheating Welsh slimeball that sold the game to DLU the first time round. No idea who the dirty cheating slimeball was the second time around.

I do remember that other cheating so-an-so Bremner was yapping away at Pat before Pat took the penalty. I never found out what he was saying, but it wouldn't happen nowadays - the two teams are kept strictly apart throughout the shoot-out.

It wasn't just Hibs who didn't like Thomas. I know he got across Ipswich, Everton, West Ham, Brazil, and the Netherlands. I'm sure there are others out there who loathe the sound of his name.

Not quite, surely? Oxley tried to psyche the DU players and we saw plenty evidence in the World cup of goalkeepers "talking" to the penalty kicker - also remember Pirlo's superb response to the English goalkeeper's taunting/attempts at mind games ...