Hibs' great wingers

[TheFamous1875]

Just been having a wee read at the Alex Harris thread and it got me thinking of some of the great names of the past such as Mickey Weir, Eric Stevenson, Arthur Duncan, et al. Did they ever have the same problems that are claimed to be Alex Harris'? If I look at a player such as Ivan Sproule, it's arguable that although Alex Harris is the more skilful player on paper, in reality you'd want Ivan Sproule in your team instead for his speed, his directness and his fighting spirit.

Are these things that can be taught? There was an interview a few months ago with Peter Cormack saying he offered to help train the attacking players for free but didn't even receive a response from the club and it makes you think that it's maybe exactly what these young players need. Someone who's done it at the top level to show them the ropes.

So I was just wondering if any of the older hats could inform me on how the notable wingers of Hibs' past started out and how they ended up becoming heroes of the club. Did they have the inconsistencies and confidence woes that our young players today have, or were they the finished article when they burst onto the scene?

[jdships]

Just been having a wee read at the Alex Harris thread and it got me thinking of some of the great names of the past such as Mickey Weir, Eric Stevenson, Arthur Duncan, et al. Did they ever have the same problems that are claimed to be Alex Harris'? If I look at a player such as Ivan Sproule, it's arguable that although Alex Harris is the more skilful player on paper, in reality you'd want Ivan Sproule in your team instead for his speed, his directness and his fighting spirit.

Are these things that can be taught? There was an interview a few months ago with Peter Cormack saying he offered to help train the attacking players for free but didn't even receive a response from the club and it makes you think that it's maybe exactly what these young players need. Someone who's done it at the top level to show them the ropes.

So I was just wondering if any of the older hats could inform me on how the notable wingers of Hibs' past started out and how they ended up becoming heroes of the club. Did they have the inconsistencies and confidence woes that our young players today have, or were they the finished article when they burst onto the scene?


Interesting post !!
From my own experience it is all down to " tactics and formations " and the way the game is played/coached
1950s: 3-2-3-2 ( as a " winger" I was told to run at the defence as " often as possible " )
We as No7/11's were brought up on pace and mobility to pull the defence about - just as Ivan did in his first spell
Late 1950s: 4-2-4
Both these systems allowed for the playing of two wingers
Brazil brought 4-2-4 to prominence by winning the 1958 World Cup. Since then, it has evolved to different four-back formations like 4-3-3 and 4-4-2.

Unfortunately we slipped into the Argentinian Catenaccio Style Football - " if the opponents cannot score a goal, they cannot win the match "
In the 1960s, the catenaccio soccer system was used by Helenio Herrera who took Internazionale Milano to 3 Serie A Championship titles and 2 European Championship Cups. In 1969, Herrera moved to AS Roma where he won the Italian Cup using the same defensive soccer strategy.
Wingers were being made redundant and more or less have been a " luxury" ever since

Sadly for the spectators we miss the thrill of the pacy wingers along with the " tanner ba' players" of old


:flag:

[Bostonhibby]

Just been having a wee read at the Alex Harris thread and it got me thinking of some of the great names of the past such as Mickey Weir, Eric Stevenson, Arthur Duncan, et al. Did they ever have the same problems that are claimed to be Alex Harris'? If I look at a player such as Ivan Sproule, it's arguable that although Alex Harris is the more skilful player on paper, in reality you'd want Ivan Sproule in your team instead for his speed, his directness and his fighting spirit.

Are these things that can be taught? There was an interview a few months ago with Peter Cormack saying he offered to help train the attacking players for free but didn't even receive a response from the club and it makes you think that it's maybe exactly what these young players need. Someone who's done it at the top level to show them the ropes.

So I was just wondering if any of the older hats could inform me on how the notable wingers of Hibs' past started out and how they ended up becoming heroes of the club. Did they have the inconsistencies and confidence woes that our young players today have, or were they the finished article when they burst onto the scene?

Arthur Duncan - Loved him - never arrived as a youth but he kept on being a great winger, scoring like a striker and making about as many again, fast, skilful, direct, scored more goals than any winger I can remember, always had a smile on his face. I think he scored more than 20 in 72-73 (?) whilst supplying O'Rourke and Gordon who got even more.

We never knew then how lucky we were, seen nothing like him since except perhaps Ivan in flashes but Nijinsky did it for a fair bit longer.

Alex Harris has all the raw material, its about who moulds him.

[cmcd]

Arthur Duncan - Loved him - never arrived as a youth but he kept on being a great winger, scoring like a striker and making about as many again, fast, skilful, direct, scored more goals than any winger I can remember, always had a smile on his face. I think he scored more than 20 in 72-73 (?) whilst supplying O'Rourke and Gordon who got even more.

We never knew then how lucky we were, seen nothing like him since except perhaps Ivan in flashes but Nijinsky did it for a fair bit longer.

Alex Harris has all the raw material, its about who moulds him.
Hibs have had some great wide players over the years Gordon Smith Eric Stevenson Peter Marinello (played his best at Hibs) Alex Scott Micky Weir Kevin Mcallistair Arthur Duncan and IVAN

[Bostonhibby]

Hibs have had some great wide players over the years Gordon Smith Eric Stevenson Peter Marinello (played his best at Hibs) Alex Scott Micky Weir Kevin Mcallistair Arthur Duncan and IVAN

Never seen Gordon Smith but I know he was the best from the Hibbies in my family who shared their memories. Did see Marinello, fantastic player - still have better memories of Arthur though.

[iwasthere1972]

Eric Stevenson. One of my all time favourites.

[Mr White]

Michael O'Neil was pretty good.

[mim]

Let's not forget Johnny Mcleod from the Joe Baker era

[bournehibby]

Jim Scott, with his deceptive appearance could go on some incredible mazy runs and scored a few into the bargain.

bh

[PeeJay]

Just been having a wee read at the Alex Harris thread and it got me thinking of some of the great names of the past such as Mickey Weir, Eric Stevenson, Arthur Duncan, et al. Did they ever have the same problems that are claimed to be Alex Harris'? If I look at a player such as Ivan Sproule, it's arguable that although Alex Harris is the more skilful player on paper, in reality you'd want Ivan Sproule in your team instead for his speed, his directness and his fighting spirit.

Are these things that can be taught? There was an interview a few months ago with Peter Cormack saying he offered to help train the attacking players for free but didn't even receive a response from the club and it makes you think that it's maybe exactly what these young players need. Someone who's done it at the top level to show them the ropes.

So I was just wondering if any of the older hats could inform me on how the notable wingers of Hibs' past started out and how they ended up becoming heroes of the club. Did they have the inconsistencies and confidence woes that our young players today have, or were they the finished article when they burst onto the scene?

Alex Harris is a long, long way from being anything like most of the names mentioned on this thread - as young players Stevenson, Scott (one of the finest crossers of a ball I've seen), Marinello, Duncan etc. weren't the finished article BUT they all developed to become something special - Harris has stalled in his development (whether that's his fault or the coaching at the club I'm not in a position to say - Cormack would have been a good addition to the staff, particularly with his experience, surely?) - personally - I'm not sure Harris has it in him to become a good player, certainly not based on anything I've seen from him since THAT game. Hope he proves me wrong...

[ancient hibee]

He will prove to be a good player.

Could I be the first old codger to say that great wingers are people like Gordon Smith and Willie Ormond -most of those others mentioned were good rather than great.

[Franck Stanton]

Jim Scott, with his deceptive appearance could go on some incredible mazy runs and scored a few into the bargain.

bh

JIM Scott ? I always remember him as a centre forward, it was when Jim left we recruited his brother ALEX Scott, a right winger.

As a wee side note, John Connley was with us for perhaps half a season when Ormand was our manager, great left winger, "Ghosted" past players as though they weren't even there.

Just another wee side note - Arthur Duncan played for us for 10 years and NEVER ended up in a losing side against hearts [seems our defeats in these years were when he was dropped/injured/suspended]

[Ray_]

He will prove to be a good player.

Could I be the first old codger to say that great wingers are people like Gordon Smith and Willie Ormond -most of those others mentioned were good rather than great.

I would say that they were maybe exceptional rather than great, Eric Stevenson was great and so was Alex Edwards. Peter Marinello didn't do it long enough to be considered great, Alex Scott had peaked elsewhere, Arthur Duncan was a star and a great club servant. Alex Harris reminds me a bit of Kenny Davidson, will he or won't he, that is the question, with Kenny it was sadly won't be.

[brog]

JIM Scott ? I always remember him as a centre forward, it was when Jim left we recruited his brother ALEX Scott, a right winger.

As a wee side note, John Connley was with us for perhaps half a season when Ormand was our manager, great left winger, "Ghosted" past players as though they weren't even there.

Jim Scott played mainly originally as a right winger but also played through the middle. Another fine player with tremendous dribbling skills, his brother Alex was more direct.

[cmcd]

Jim Scott played mainly originally as a right winger but also played through the middle. Another fine player with tremendous dribbling skills, his brother Alex was more direct.
Yes Jim Scott could play wide or up front As for Marinello He left Hibs too early Arsenal didnt get the best out of him He was a great talent who could ghost passed defenders with pace Could kick myself for forgeting Mcleod

[Stax]

Never saw him play but my auld man and even my jambo father in law reckon Gordon Smith was the best player they've ever seen. As a boy Arthur Duncan was my first real Hibs hero. Nothing gets bums of seats more than a pacy winger running at defences, Ivan was a sight to behold 1st time round. As for Alex I really hope he can go on to fulfil his undoubted potential.

[eastterrace]

Jim Scott played mainly originally as a right winger but also played through the middle. Another fine player with tremendous dribbling skills, his brother Alex was more direct.

jim scott was a brilliant player, his brother was good as well but came to hibs when he was on the way down but could still cross a ball.when you think off alex harris compared to these guys no contest im afraid.

[superfurryhibby]

Arthur Duncan was a great winger. Fast, direct and powerful, I always remember the buzz around when Duncan was flying up the wing with the ball. At least he got a few Scotland caps, unlike some of his teammates who were perhaps better footballers.

I always liked Mickey Weir too. Brilliant skills and a right brave wee guy. Seemed to fall out of favour with Miller and had a good few injuries. He was total Hibs man too!

[Hiber-nation]

Just another wee side note - Arthur Duncan played for us for 10 years and NEVER ended up in a losing side [seems our defeats in these years were when he was dropped/injured/suspended]

I loved Arthur but certainly saw him playing in plenty games that we lost!

[Lago]

Arthur Duncan was a great winger. Fast, direct and powerful, I always remember the buzz around when Duncan was flying up the wing with the ball. At least he got a few Scotland caps, unlike some of his teammates who were perhaps better footballers.

I always liked Mickey Weir too. Brilliant skills and a right brave wee guy. Seemed to fall out of favour with Miller and had a good few injuries. He was total Hibs man too!
Yip Arthur Duncan for me, will never get his run and cross for Harper to score against Liverpool. Great days.

[Golden Bear]

I must be acclimatised to the recent mood on Hibs Net as I mistakingly read this thread title as "Hibs great Whingers!"

[hibby6270]

Tony Rougier had the occasional good game.:greengrin

But best I've seen from an all round point of view was Arthur Duncan, who, and not a lot of people recognise the fact that he was the last Hibs player to score the winning goal in a Scottish Cup Final :wink: :rolleyes:

[ancient hibee]

Jim Scott scored one of my all time favourite goals for Edinburgh Select against Newcastle at ER in 1959 -he seemed to dribble through the whole team including the goalie twice to score the 4th goal -needless to say STV who were showing the highlights that night missed the goal.Think the other goals were scored by Willie Bauld(2) and Willie Ormond.Jim later won a Fairs Cup medal with Newcastle.Brother Alex of course took part in the magical night against Napoli.

[Bishop Hibee]

Somewhere along the line the winger morphed into the 'wide midfielder'. I fear Ivan may be the last true winger we have. I've argued it was the lack of professional coaching that made Sproule the unpredictable maverick type. Others have said he would have been better with A big club from a young age but I don't agree.

[Peevemor]

I can't believe that nobody's mentioned Joe Tortolano. Seriously. Apart from always giving his all, he was a very good and consistent crosser of the ball. Unfortunately Lexo persisted on playing him at the back, which wasn't his strong point. Joe Mcbride jnr was also very exciting to watch for a couple of seasons until he broke his leg at Clydebank in a midweek game.

I saw Arthur Duncan's final few seasons for Hibs and remember him getting a fair bit of stick from the fans. Some things never change. :greengrin:

[Golden Bear]

My nominees are Alec Cropley who played with his brains as well as his feet and if George Best counts as a Hibs player then he's got to be considered as the greatest winger ever to wear the famous Hibernian jersey.

[PeeJay]

My nominees are Alec Cropley who played with his brains as well as his feet and if George Best counts as a Hibs player then he's got to be considered as the greatest winger ever to wear the famous Hibernian jersey.

Wasn't he (Cropley) a midfield player, rather than a "winger"?

[cmcd]

Wasn't he (Cropley) a midfield player, rather than a "winger"?
Yes Cropley played left mid with Arthur outside him and Erich behind him Great team to watch With Brownlie Edwards and Stanton on the other side

[Golden Bear]

Wasn't he (Cropley) a midfield player, rather than a "winger"?

As I recollect he originally played as a traditional left winger but graduated into the left side midfield role later in his career. For the sake of argument he possessed far superior ball skills as Arthur Duncan but didn't have his speed.

[Ray_]

As I recollect he originally played as a traditional left winger but graduated into the left side midfield role later in his career. For the sake of argument he possessed far superior ball skills as Arthur Duncan but didn't have his speed.

He played the first few games of the 71/2 season on the left wing with Arthur Duncan on the right & they were the first games Hibs played with the then new manager, Eddie Turnbull. When Ned brought in Alex Edwards, Crops was moved inside and Arthur moved back to the left.

[--------]

My nominees are Alec Cropley who played with his brains as well as his feet and if George Best counts as a Hibs player then he's got to be considered as the greatest winger ever to wear the famous Hibernian jersey.


No he doesn't.

One - he was well past it when he came to us and you never knew whether he was actually going to turn up - and what state he would be in.

And two - anyone who saw Gordon Smith play at any stage of his 23-year senior career, 18 years and three League Championships with Hibs, would know who the greatest HIBS winger ever was. And it wasn't George Best, IMO.

[Dan Sarf]

Let's not forget Johnny Mcleod from the Joe Baker era

Loved watching the two of them.

Great piece here about how they joined up again at Arsenal.

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/armadale-winger-hit-arsenal-s-first-goal-in-europe-1-1036172

[H18S NX]

Hibs have had some great wide players over the years Gordon Smith Eric Stevenson Peter Marinello (played his best at Hibs) Alex Scott Micky Weir Kevin Mcallistair Arthur Duncan and IVAN...Brought back great memories CMCD.:aok:

[Dan Sarf]

No he doesn't.

One - he was well past it when he came to us and you never knew whether he was actually going to turn up - and what state he would be in.

And two - anyone who saw Gordon Smith play at any stage of his 23-year senior career, 18 years and three League Championships with Hibs, would know who the greatest HIBS winger ever was. And it wasn't George Best, IMO.

Seconded! I feel fortunate to have watched him play.

[Crammond Hibee]

JIM Scott ? I always remember him as a centre forward, it was when Jim left we recruited his brother ALEX Scott, a right winger.

As a wee side note, John Connley was with us for perhaps half a season when Ormand was our manager, great left winger, "Ghosted" past players as though they weren't even there.

Just another wee side note - Arthur Duncan played for us for 10 years and NEVER ended up in a losing side [seems our defeats in these years were when he was dropped/injured/suspended]

Great own goal in the Scottish Cup Final in 1979 only loss !!!!

[Crammond Hibee]

I would say that they were maybe exceptional rather than great, Eric Stevenson was great and so was Alex Edwards. Peter Marinello didn't do it long enough to be considered great, Alex Scott had peaked elsewhere, Arthur Duncan was a star and a great club servant. Alex Harris reminds me a bit of Kenny Davidson, will he or won't he, that is the question, with Kenny it was sadly won't be.

Alec Edwards was fantastic .

[heretoday]

Jim Scott scored one of my all time favourite goals for Edinburgh Select against Newcastle at ER in 1959 -he seemed to dribble through the whole team including the goalie twice to score the 4th goal -needless to say STV who were showing the highlights that night missed the goal.Think the other goals were scored by Willie Bauld(2) and Willie Ormond.Jim later won a Fairs Cup medal with Newcastle.Brother Alex of course took part in the magical night against Napoli.

My dad and I used to love watching Jim Scott tricking his way down the right. He rolled in the penalties too. He was one of those players that the crowd looked forward to seeing on the ball because he could dribble past defenders - a skill not much in evidence these days. Newcastle obviously appreciated him too.

[--------]

My dad and I used to love watching Jim Scott tricking his way down the right. He rolled in the penalties too. He was one of those players that the crowd looked forward to seeing on the ball because he could dribble past defenders - a skill not much in evidence these days. Newcastle obviously appreciated him too.

A greatly underestimated player. He was pretty lethal when he cut inside and popped up in the goalmouth too.

I once met a lady up in Caithness who told me that two of her uncles had played for Hibs and did I remember them?

Frantic searching of the memory-banks, then huge relief when I realised it was Jim and Alex Scott she was referring to and I could honestly say what good players they were and how much I'd enjoyed watching them. They both had tremendous ball-skills, but Jim being younger is the one I remember leaving full-backs for dead over and over again.

Alex I remember for two totally wicked corner-kicks at the Albion Road end the night we beat Napoli. I can still see the ball curling in for Peter Cormack and Pat Stanton to rise like salmon to head in our thirs and fourth goals. The sort of corners you know will lead to a goal from the moment they leave the taker's foot.

[--------]

Loved watching the two of them.

Great piece here about how they joined up again at Arsenal.

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/armadale-winger-hit-arsenal-s-first-goal-in-europe-1-1036172


Which tells you that even the 'great' Harry Swan wasn't above selling the family silver ....

My father never went back to ER after Swan sold Baker and McLeod. Never forgave, never forgot.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

Hibs have had some great wide players over the years Gordon Smith Eric Stevenson Peter Marinello (played his best at Hibs) Alex Scott Micky Weir Kevin Mcallistair Arthur Duncan and IVAN

I really dinnae think McAllister deserves to be on that list. I think Joe T would chuckle when he sees his name on this thread too.

[superfurryhibby]

I really dinnae think McAllister deserves to be on that list. I think Joe T would chuckle when he sees his name on this thread too.

Agreed. Miller certainly didnae get the best out of Mc Allister and he was as much out the team as in. Maybe something to do with the boring one liking players who would track back etc, yawn, yawn.

Joe Tortolano was a decent crosser of the ball at times but he wasn't a particularly good player, on the wing or at left back (FFS). Joe always tried hard, but lacked any real physical oomph, although he did commit that atrocity of a tackle on WGS in his testimonial match. A rather bizarre episode really.

Must say that there is a bit of a dearth of proper top quality names to conjure with since Arthur Duncan, a bit alarming really. Maybe only Mickey Weir could be termed a true great and for all that I liked him as a player, that might be stretching it?

Ivan Sproule in his first spell, undoubtedly created a buzz around the fans when he got the ball, in a way that was pretty electric. He may have had limitations in his technique but I loved the way he gave his all and he scored a bloody hat trick at Ibrox. That was quite a journey he made, from part time player to slayer of Hun.

[ginger_rice]

Arthur Duncan for me too, the atmosphere at ER was electric when he was on the ball down the slope you just knew something was going to happen. He was an absolute gent too. I've always thought that Arthur was a bit of an unsung hero in that team compared to Stanton, Cropley, O'Rourke, Gordon and so on, but he was as necessary to the Tornado's as all of those.

[PeeJay]

Arthur Duncan for me too, the atmosphere at ER was electric when he was on the ball down the slope you just knew something was going to happen. He was an absolute gent too. I've always thought that Arthur was a bit of an unsung hero in that team compared to Stanton, Cropley, O'Rourke, Gordon and so on, but he was as necessary to the Tornado's as all of those.

Don't think Arthur Duncan was an "unsung hero" as you say - he was pretty popular (frustrating at times maybe when he ran out of pitch - or as Jimmy O'Rourke would say, '...when he went in search of the pie man'), but generally he was highly thought of, as I recall ...

[SJNB Hibby]

Let's not forget Johnny Mcleod from the Joe Baker era
He's my mothers sisters husbands sisters husband:aok:
Really nice guy, got a photo with him when I was about 8--looked right chuffed(me-not him)
Set a record at the time of highest transfer fee for a move from Scotland to England when he signed for the Arse for 40,000. Played a few times for Scotland(inc. THAT game against Ingerland in '63) and the old Scottish League. Nippy wee winger, went on to play for Villa



Jim Scott, with his deceptive appearance could go on some incredible mazy runs and scored a few into the bargain.

Signed for Palace early 70's and was rank rotten by then I'm afraid
bh