Britain to pay £1.7 billion for doing well.

[Hibrandenburg]

What a farce this is. Either we have to pay it coz thems the rules we signed up to or we don't coz thems not the rules. Either way Cameron is looking a bit of a numpty.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/eu/11184760/David-Cameron-demands-emergency-talks-over-EU-budget-demand.html

[hibsbollah]

More fuel for the UKIP fire. The joke is, Cameron has always supported continued European integration, but he has to pretend he doesn't to placate his split party.

[Hibernia&Alba]

Awful timing for Cameron, and perfect for UKIP. He'll be wanting to play hardball with Brussels so he can claim some kind of victory. His posturing over EU migration is absurd and he knows it. The free movement of people is one of the fundamentals of the single market. It doesn't look possible the Tories will win a majority in Westminster at the next election, meaning the EU referendum won't happen. I see the EU are also demanding money of Greece, amongst others. Good luck with that!

[Golden Bear]

A penalty clause for being more successful than other countries! Only the Eurocrats could dream up this one.

I sincerely hope the PM tells them where they can stick this "demand" Jeez even poor Greece has been hit with a bill while France & Germany are due for a refund.

:furious:

[NAE NOOKIE]

I am a confirmed Europhile and will always defend the concept of agreement and closer ties between Euro countries to the mutual benefit of all.

But sometimes you look at Brussels and just scratch yer heid. Forget the ins and outs of whether there is any fairness in this situation, what stumps me is the apparent ignorance, or worse wilful dismissal, of the current political climate in the UK and especially at Westminster.

If they had all sat down and asked, what can we give UKIP and the growing Euro sceptic Tory element for Christmas? this would be it. I sometimes wonder if there is an underground movement within the EU which would love to push the UK out. They cant do it directly because it would fly in the face of the EU's core principles, so the best way is to ensure that the Euro sceptics are bound to succeed in an in / out referendum.

[Hibrandenburg]

A penalty clause for being more successful than other countries! Only the Eurocrats could dream up this one.

I sincerely hope the PM tells them where they can stick this "demand" Jeez even poor Greece has been hit with a bill while France & Germany are due for a refund.

:furious:

Did we forget to read the small print again?

[stoneyburn hibs]

Did we forget to read the small print again?

Yep, it is a fracking liberty, thank god for the new oil fields in Scotland.

[NAE NOOKIE]

Yep, it is a fracking liberty, thank god for the new oil fields in Scotland.

What ?

I have it on good authority that there was enough oil left in the North Sea to fill one Reliant Robin and a couple of Zippos. Are you saying I was lied to? :grr:

[Sir David Gray]

What a total joke.

It's absolutely ridiculous that they've given the UK government just over a month to pay almost £2 billion!

Yet another example of why we need to either have a complete overhaul with regards to our relationship with the EU, or get out.

The current arrangement is not acceptable on so many levels.

[Hibrandenburg]

What a total joke.

It's absolutely ridiculous that they've given the UK government just over a month to pay almost £2 billion!

Yet another example of why we need to either have a complete overhaul with regards to our relationship with the EU, or get out.

The current arrangement is not acceptable on so many levels.


Are we then gonna pay back all the rebates we've been given in the past?

[Colr]

More fuel for the UKIP fire. The joke is, Cameron has always supported continued European integration, but he has to pretend he doesn't to placate his split party.

The Tories are pusuing a line of subsidarity which is increasingly appealling. They will try to negotiate this for the vote but I feel the EU will not play ball.

[Colr]

A penalty clause for being more successful than other countries! Only the Eurocrats could dream up this one.

I sincerely hope the PM tells them where they can stick this "demand" Jeez even poor Greece has been hit with a bill while France & Germany are due for a refund.

:furious:

If Frnace would run their economy properly they wouldn't need a hand out. Its like a reward for failing to implement the right policies. Surely the German's must see this. Where is the incentive for governments to do the right thing?

[One Day Soon]

The way we behave in the EU I'm surprised they're still wanting us as members. It's like a thrawn club member who doesn't want to pay their subs, complains about everything and then is surprised when other members don't want to sit beside them or support their ideas.

Get fully in or get fully out, but man up and stop whinging all the time.

[Phil D. Rolls]

This does suck, a bit. Britain faced up to the recession before most other EU members. We've suffered the austerity longer.

[Hibrandenburg]

This does suck, a bit. Britain faced up to the recession before most other EU members. We've suffered the austerity longer.

We've also had more than our fair share of rebates in the past at the price of other countries doing well.

The Tories obviously haven't done their homework here and have egg on their face big time. The more they shout and scream about it the more stupid they look. UKIP must think Christmas has come early.

[Hibrandenburg]

The way we behave in the EU I'm surprised they're still wanting us as members. It's like a thrawn club member who doesn't want to pay their subs, complains about everything and then is surprised when other members don't want to sit beside them or support their ideas.

Get fully in or get fully out, but man up and stop whinging all the time.

Agree, you can't just pick the cherries out.

[Phil D. Rolls]

We've also had more than our fair share of rebates in the past at the price of other countries doing well.

The Tories obviously haven't done their homework here and have egg on their face big time. The more they shout and scream about it the more stupid they look. UKIP must think Christmas has come early.

I can see the fairness, it's just a bit rubbish after years of austerity. It's an absolute god send for UKIP.

[Hibrandenburg]

I can see the fairness, it's just a bit rubbish after years of austerity. It's an absolute god send for UKIP.

:agree:

And Cameron greetin his wee piggy eyes out about it is making it even better for UKIP.

I wish I could just refuse to pay the bills that come through my door.

[Phil D. Rolls]

:agree:

And Cameron greetin his wee piggy eyes out about it is making it even better for UKIP.

I wish I could just refuse to pay the bills that come through my door.

I do, but I still end up paying them.

Anyway, I reckon BoJo is about to strike. His response will be even less subtle than Farage's.

[Phil D. Rolls]

:agree:

And Cameron greetin his wee piggy eyes out about it is making it even better for UKIP.

I wish I could just refuse to pay the bills that come through my door.


Cue BoJo, and his gunboat diplomacy skills.

[NAE NOOKIE]

The way we behave in the EU I'm surprised they're still wanting us as members. It's like a thrawn club member who doesn't want to pay their subs, complains about everything and then is surprised when other members don't want to sit beside them or support their ideas.

Get fully in or get fully out, but man up and stop whinging all the time.

Pretty well bang on ......... The rest of the EU must get sick of the UK moaning like mental all the time.

We have negotiated a better deal than many EU states, but that gets forgotten at times like this.

[RyeSloan]

This does suck, a bit. Britain faced up to the recession before most other EU members. We've suffered the austerity longer.

Did we? Have we?

[Phil D. Rolls]

Did we? Have we?

Anecdotal, I reckon it took Holland, and Portugal - places I visit regularly a couple of years to realise that the party was over.

The only other observation I can offer is Dara O'Brain who said Britain knew what to do to get out of the mess, whilst Ireland and Portugal did not have a clue, and out off tackling the problem too long.

As for whether we tackled it, a glance at the way public sector salaries have decreased in real terms over the last five years or so, tells its own tale.

[CropleyWasGod]

If you sign up to a partnership, you have to be aware of all of the rights and responsibilities of its membership. I don't believe for one minute that the Government didn't know that this was coming.

I suspect that the "righteous anger" is aimed at potential UKIP voters.

However, if he genuinely didn't see it coming, the anger should be directed at those civil servants who should have expected the bill.

[hibsbollah]

If you sign up to a partnership, you have to be aware of all of the rights and responsibilities of its membership. I don't believe for one minute that the Government didn't know that this was coming.

I suspect that the "righteous anger" is aimed at potential UKIP voters.

However, if he genuinely didn't see it coming, the anger should be directed at those civil servants who should have expected the bill.

The Government definitively DID know it was coming, thats been shown. In fact, the UKs own statisticians provided the information. If the Tories are genuinely surprised its down to a lack of communication within the party.

[CropleyWasGod]

The Government definitively DID know it was coming, thats a fact. In fa t, the UKs own statisticians provided the information. If the Tories are genuinely surprised its down to a lack of communication within the party.

Sounds a bit like the Self-assessment tax system.

Taxpayer/UK Government:- This is how much we've made last year.

HMRC/EU:- Thank you. You now owe us £x

Taxpayer/UKG:- WTF? Why? I'm no paying it......

[hibsbollah]

http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2014/oct/24/britains-two-billion-euro-bill-explained

[RyeSloan]

Anecdotal, I reckon it took Holland, and Portugal - places I visit regularly a couple of years to realise that the party was over. The only other observation I can offer is Dara O'Brain who said Britain knew what to do to get out of the mess, whilst Ireland and Portugal did not have a clue, and out off tackling the problem too long. As for whether we tackled it, a glance at the way public sector salaries have decreased in real terms over the last five years or so, tells its own tale.

Yet a glance at public expenditure (up on last year, which was up on the year before etc) and the annual deficit and overall debt pile also tells it's own tale...

Your anecdotal evidence may have been the man on the street view but holland had already seen Fortis fail before any UK bank bailout, Germany had folded one of their mortgage lenders Hypo whateveritsnamewas...basically Europe was well aware of the crisis in 2008 just the same as the UK was.

I would suggest that we still haven't tackled anything..Britain was fortunate it could invoke QE or it would have been truly stuffed, the lack of that on the continent has undoubtedly led to actual austerity in many parts and is certainly not what the UK has mistakenly called austerity.

Ach O/T I know and not really aimed at you but it kind of bugs me when I see the UK portrayed as some sort of model to follow in the post crisis world or in fact the opposite that we suffered more for longer...we are still way short of cutting government spending to a manageable level (it's STILL growing) and still way short of balancing the books.

[judas]

More fuel for the UKIP fire. The joke is, Cameron has always supported continued European integration, but he has to pretend he doesn't to placate his split party.

This.

His high pitched hissy fit at Fridays press conference was a cringeworthy bridge to his parties right wing.

[NAE NOOKIE]

If you sign up to a partnership, you have to be aware of all of the rights and responsibilities of its membership. I don't believe for one minute that the Government didn't know that this was coming.

I suspect that the "righteous anger" is aimed at potential UKIP voters.

However, if he genuinely didn't see it coming, the anger should be directed at those civil servants who should have expected the bill.

Not this time ... the stats required to work out the bill were provided to the EU months ago and apparently the only folk who didn't grasp the reason the EU wanted the stats were the government.

[heretoday]

Cameron is making a fool of himself getting all huffy about this bill. This smacks of posturing in response to the pressure from the media and his own right wing over UKIP. He would be better to take the credit for the improvement in the economy that has largely led to this situation. And, after all, other nations are facing a bill too. Cameron should get some new spin doctors.

[hibsbollah]

https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/european-union-finances-2013

In terms of 'proof', here's our govts submission to Eurostat that resulted in the bill we received.

The thing about 'other nations are facing a bill too' misses the point that 19 nations are getting a rebate, and 9 are getting penalised. Of those 9, 7 are getting a tiny bill to pay Ireland 6.5million, Bulgaria 7million) and only two countries are getting hammered; Netherlands 640million and UK 2.1 BILLION Euros. Its a massive difference, and just shows the ineptitude of the Cameron administration, more than the unfairness of the system of euro funding allocations, which we agreed and signed up to, ffs.

[degenerated]

What a total joke.

It's absolutely ridiculous that they've given the UK government just over a month to pay almost £2 billion!

Yet another example of why we need to either have a complete overhaul with regards to our relationship with the EU, or get out.

The current arrangement is not acceptable on so many levels.
Except that not only did Cameron know this was coming, he signed the country up for it. All the faux outrage in the world won't change it.

Or was it another positioning move by the Tories to cause a rift in EU, like Scottish referendum was about an opportunity to weaken Labour at Westminster.

[Mibbes Aye]

Yet a glance at public expenditure (up on last year, which was up on the year before etc) and the annual deficit and overall debt pile also tells it's own tale...

Your anecdotal evidence may have been the man on the street view but holland had already seen Fortis fail before any UK bank bailout, Germany had folded one of their mortgage lenders Hypo whateveritsnamewas...basically Europe was well aware of the crisis in 2008 just the same as the UK was.

I would suggest that we still haven't tackled anything..Britain was fortunate it could invoke QE or it would have been truly stuffed, the lack of that on the continent has undoubtedly led to actual austerity in many parts and is certainly not what the UK has mistakenly called austerity.

Ach O/T I know and not really aimed at you but it kind of bugs me when I see the UK portrayed as some sort of model to follow in the post crisis world or in fact the opposite that we suffered more for longer...we are still way short of cutting government spending to a manageable level (it's STILL growing) and still way short of balancing the books.

Good analysis.

And you're right. The retrenchment in public spending will become more pronounced.

There will be promises about protecting the NHS. The money going in isn't enough to keep up with demand however, and massive cuts are being made to councils, who fund social care which is the only means of reducing demand on health services.

This isn't a political point. There's pain to come and I don't think any party should shoulder the blame, we always would have ended up here regardless of who was and is in power.

[HappyAsHellas]

QE had nothing whatsoever to do with the UK getting "back on track" as Cameron and co tell us. The banks had to give the man on the street untold billions in PPI payments which the good people of this nation used to buy stuff and therefore rescue the economy.

[steakbake]

Cameron is making a fool of himself getting all huffy about this bill. This smacks of posturing in response to the pressure from the media and his own right wing over UKIP. He would be better to take the credit for the improvement in the economy that has largely led to this situation. And, after all, other nations are facing a bill too. Cameron should get some new spin doctors.

This suits his electoral strategy and the others have been sucked right into it.

Just like he's pulled people into a mad dash to the right on immigration.