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Slicer
23-10-2014, 12:19 PM
David Farrell had a weekly blog, always a good insight into the game. Here are his views on the derby...


http://davidfarrellfaz.wordpress.com/2014/10/23/war-and-peace/

Apologies, I can't post the link.

Winston Ingram
23-10-2014, 12:26 PM
Can't argue with any of that. Thanks for sharing:agree:

PatHead
23-10-2014, 12:27 PM
Great article, says what we have said for years.

Get in about them!

TowerHibs
23-10-2014, 12:28 PM
Superb read, refreshing and says everything about our record in the derby.

Ah the gold old "Hibs way"

CallumLaidlaw
23-10-2014, 12:33 PM
So so so sadly true

lucky
23-10-2014, 12:36 PM
Excellent blog and shows the from inside the difference between not the 2 clubs and how they treat the Derby

Iggy Pope
23-10-2014, 12:54 PM
Bollox. He says himself why we never won too many derbies. We carried too much *****. He is one of dozens who are culpable for our record.

Nine attempts he admits to. And nowt. Interesting that he adds Brian Hamilton to the list of quality we had. By virtue of his LC winners medal, Hamilton edges the quality barometer over David Farrell, a name often overlooked in crap Hibs player threads. He might sound like a Hibby. But so am I and I never got past the Maybury leagues.


This is a component part of our early 90s 'engine room' who asked to keep the match ball because he managed to score a goal once. Even Alex Miller had the positivity to tell him to **** off.


When the quality (and graft) of the likes of Wee Jimmy, Paddy, Arthur, big Dode, Russell, Franck or Mixu write a Derby blog I might start to pay attention.

hibs0666
23-10-2014, 12:57 PM
We don't go to war proverbially speaking in the stands either as Sunday's attendance will show.

easty
23-10-2014, 12:58 PM
We don't go to war proverbially speaking in the stands either as Sunday's attendance will show.

Whats your point?

TowerHibs
23-10-2014, 12:58 PM
Bollox. He says himself why we never won too many derbies. We carried too much *****. He is one of dozens who are culpable for our record.

Nine attempts he admits to. And nowt. Interesting that he adds Brian Hamilton to the list of quality we had. By virtue of his LC winners medal, Hamilton edges the quality barometer over David Farrell, a name often overlooked in crap Hibs player threads. He might sound like a Hibby. But so am I and I never got past the Maybury leagues.


This is a component part of our early 90s 'engine room' who asked to keep the match ball because he managed to score a goal once. Even Alex Miller had the positivity to tell him to **** off.


When the quality (and graft) of the likes of Wee Jimmy, Paddy, Arthur, big Dode, Russell, Franck or Mixu write a Derby blog I might start to pay attention.
I understand what your saying.

Hearts have also had some rotten teams that beat us though

NOLA
23-10-2014, 01:02 PM
used to see davie in the bookies a fair bit, his tips were rotten though :grr:

Cabbage East
23-10-2014, 01:28 PM
Nailed it.

bigwheel
23-10-2014, 01:32 PM
Bollox. He says himself why we never won too many derbies. We carried too much *****. He is one of dozens who are culpable for our record.

Nine attempts he admits to. And nowt. Interesting that he adds Brian Hamilton to the list of quality we had. By virtue of his LC winners medal, Hamilton edges the quality barometer over David Farrell, a name often overlooked in crap Hibs player threads. He might sound like a Hibby. But so am I and I never got past the Maybury leagues.


This is a component part of our early 90s 'engine room' who asked to keep the match ball because he managed to score a goal once. Even Alex Miller had the positivity to tell him to **** off.


When the quality (and graft) of the likes of Wee Jimmy, Paddy, Arthur, big Dode, Russell, Franck or Mixu write a Derby blog I might start to pay attention.


what a nonsense post...Farrell describes himself as an average player...which he was, but to suggest he was "crap" is completely disrespectful to someone who went on to have a decent Scottish career...not a world beater, but frankly was a great pro throughout most of his career. He has also done some good work coaching at youth level..

He is also an insightful and interesting blogger on football...keep it up Davie boy, more interesting that most...

Keith_M
23-10-2014, 01:40 PM
Somebody needs to give this to Stubbs and all the players, who should then implant it in their psyches



"But they better be ready for a war of monumental proportions. Because I know Hearts will."

Ozyhibby
23-10-2014, 01:44 PM
He's spot on. We're soft. Have been for years.

Iggy Pope
23-10-2014, 02:00 PM
what a nonsense post...Farrell describes himself as an average player...which he was, but to suggest he was "crap" is completely disrespectful to someone who went on to have a decent Scottish career...not a world beater, but frankly was a great pro throughout most of his career. He has also done some good work coaching at youth level..

He is also an insightful and interesting blogger on football...keep it up Davie boy, more interesting that most...

Nonsense yerself. He was crap.
Says so himself. And he wasn't alone. I witnessed it. I wish he had been as 'insightful' on the pitch. And he's waited 20 years to explain to us why we were crap. Such insight. Spare me.

hibs0666
23-10-2014, 02:03 PM
Whats your point?

Point is the punters are not up for the battle either.

bigwheel
23-10-2014, 02:04 PM
Nonsense yerself. He was crap.
Says so himself. And he wasn't alone. I witnessed it. I wish he had been as 'insightful' on the pitch. And he's waited 20 years to explain to us why we were crap. Such insight. Spare me.

yes, 250 professional games......bet you never even played that in the maybury league....

Stevie Reid
23-10-2014, 02:05 PM
Nonsense yerself. He was crap.
Says so himself. And he wasn't alone. I witnessed it. I wish he had been as 'insightful' on the pitch. And he's waited 20 years to explain to us why we were crap. Such insight. Spare me.

Personally, I find his insight far more interesting than yours.

Iggy Pope
23-10-2014, 02:06 PM
I understand what your saying.

Hearts have also had some rotten teams that beat us though

No argument.. Are they blogging about how rotten they were though? Or how being rotten was better than our rotten?

Iggy Pope
23-10-2014, 02:07 PM
yes, 250 professional games......bet you never even played that in the maybury league....

20 years son!

rcarter1
23-10-2014, 02:09 PM
Point is the punters are not up for the battle either.

If you mean over the last 30 years then I totally disagree. If you refer only to attendance this weekend then fine, but Hibs are about at their lowest ebb in for ever, and Hearts are as optimistic as they have been in years.

Iggy Pope
23-10-2014, 02:12 PM
Personally, I find his insight far more interesting than yours.

Fair enough.We all have different interests. Hardly personal though if you choose to post it on the worldwideweb as you have. However. Do you think David Farrell was that good a player for us that his insight counts for much?
Will we seek the wit and wisdom of Roy Donovan in 20 years or so?

brog
23-10-2014, 02:23 PM
Good comments IMO. Almost unrelated but takes me back to my first visit to Kazakhstan 20 years ago. I walked into the camp bar & amid a gallery of American Football shirts was Davie's ( signed ) League Cup Final strip. It was the only "soccer" shirt displayed - surreal! I know, from his mate Alex Rae, that Davie has real affection for Hibs & I don't really understand folks knocking his blog.

Frazerbob
23-10-2014, 02:24 PM
Fair enough.We all have different interests. Hardly personal though if you choose to post it on the worldwideweb as you have. However. Do you think David Farrell was that good a player for us that his insight counts for much?
Will we seek the wit and wisdom of Roy Donovan in 20 years or so?

To compare Davy Farrell and his 7 years service to Roy Donovan is a joke surely. Not the best player of his generation that's for sure but a decent pro who gave his all every time I watched him, which can't be far off every game he played for us.

Very interesting read IMO which pretty much sums up my view of The Derby over the last 3/4 decades bar a few seasons.

Stevie Reid
23-10-2014, 02:39 PM
Fair enough.We all have different interests. Hardly personal though if you choose to post it on the worldwideweb as you have. However. Do you think David Farrell was that good a player for us that his insight counts for much?
Will we seek the wit and wisdom of Roy Donovan in 20 years or so?

Firstly, I don't think that he needs to be considered a good player for his opinion to be valid. As others have pointed out, the fact that he played 250 games in his career and has been an assistant manager and first team coach since his retirement, may suggest that his views on a club that he was part of for 8 years should be worthy of some respect.

Secondly, I remember Farrell as a no nonsense midfield hard man, who always gave 100% and played a bit part in Miller's better teams - in fact, he was the type of player that people on here often claim we need now. I was in my mid teens when he started to play more regularly for us, but myself and the older folk around me in the East appreciated DF for what he was.

hibee92
23-10-2014, 02:40 PM
Chatting to a Hearts youth coach a few weeks ago (good hibby too) and despite the fact that he coaches a young side who don't play in a competitive league, he was told right from his first day that they don't lose to Hibs. Drilling the mindset into the youngsters from day one that they don't lose to Hibs. That's all the way through the club. Gives you a decent insight to how they treat derbies.

HibbyAndy
23-10-2014, 02:42 PM
IIRC He scored a screamer at Easter rd in a 5-1 win.


Decent read and sadly so true, Hearts want it more than Hibs and have done for as long as i can remember.

Cabbage East
23-10-2014, 02:43 PM
We've all been saying it for years. I wonder if the club actually know this? Too soft.

CraigHibee
23-10-2014, 02:44 PM
enjoyed that

true what he said about the "mental" issue and how we have treated it as "just another game" i'm looking forward to sunday but our home record hasn't exactly been amazing, from sunday onwards i'm hoping that will change

Dunbar Hibee
23-10-2014, 02:50 PM
Chatting to a Hearts youth coach a few weeks ago (good hibby too) and despite the fact that he coaches a young side who don't play in a competitive league, he was told right from his first day that they don't lose to Hibs. Drilling the mindset into the youngsters from day one that they don't lose to Hibs. That's all the way through the club. Gives you a decent insight to how they treat derbies.

Ryan McGowan tweeted the same not so long ago. Wish we had that mentality.

lyonhibs
23-10-2014, 03:10 PM
Anyone who thinks are shabby derby record is not at least partly down to a clear difference in mentality between Hibs and Hearts, regardless of the nominal "quality" of the players on show, has been on the happy juice.

Keith_M
23-10-2014, 03:19 PM
Fair enough.We all have different interests. Hardly personal though if you choose to post it on the worldwideweb as you have. However. Do you think David Farrell was that good a player for us that his insight counts for much?
Will we seek the wit and wisdom of Roy Donovan in 20 years or so?


Farrell was a professional footballer with limited ability, which he admits, but played in enough derbies to have an insight into the mindset of both sides. His view tallies with the results over the years and confirms what most of us have long suspected.

How many Edinburgh derbies have you played in?

matty_f
23-10-2014, 03:23 PM
Ryan McGowan tweeted the same not so long ago. Wish we had that mentality.

The ironic thing there is their youth teams regularly lose to our youth sides.

Thecat23
23-10-2014, 03:26 PM
Bollox. He says himself why we never won too many derbies. We carried too much *****. He is one of dozens who are culpable for our record.

Nine attempts he admits to. And nowt. Interesting that he adds Brian Hamilton to the list of quality we had. By virtue of his LC winners medal, Hamilton edges the quality barometer over David Farrell, a name often overlooked in crap Hibs player threads. He might sound like a Hibby. But so am I and I never got past the Maybury leagues.


This is a component part of our early 90s 'engine room' who asked to keep the match ball because he managed to score a goal once. Even Alex Miller had the positivity to tell him to **** off.


When the quality (and graft) of the likes of Wee Jimmy, Paddy, Arthur, big Dode, Russell, Franck or Mixu write a Derby blog I might start to pay attention.

You have completely missed the whole point of his story. It's not whether he was a poor player or not he's telling everyone that instead of Hibs treating this as a massive game like Hearts do, we seem to play it down and treat it like we are playing St. Mirren or Ross County.

Hibs attitude needs to change as this isn't a normal game it's against are rivals who can't stand each other. Not only that our record is horrific so maybe the players need to read this and hype themselves up, and for once batter into them like they do to us.

You win your individual battle along with most of your team mates chances are you win the game.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

LeithBoozy
23-10-2014, 03:33 PM
Certainly, it must be the worst kept secret in Edinburgh that wallet Mercer slipped them plenty for a derby win. Still that does not explain our crap record during Vlads reign, when he didn't even pay their wages? :rolleyes:

The Tubs
23-10-2014, 03:59 PM
He makes the same point that Sauzee talks about in some Hibs video.

Sauzee mentions how Yogi drills it into all the players how they should perform in derbies. We also had the best derby record during my life in that period, though some of the players were no bad too.

Hopefully the players get that message for Sunday.

emerald green
23-10-2014, 04:09 PM
The $64,000 dollar question is WHY has there been this seemingly different attitude towards the derby between the two clubs on so many occasions?

It doesn't need a genius to notice the difference in attitude when one club frequently (not always) ends up losing or drawing matches they really should have won. It's been happening for years. It's nothing new. Farrell himself talks about games in the early 90s FFS. Why has that attitude not been drummed into the mentality at ER too? What's the problem? Presumably only the coaches and players can answer that question.

Winning football matches isn't just about ability. Good teams also need toughness - both physical and mental, organisation, and good strong leadership on and off the pitch, and dare I say it, a bit of nastiness when the going gets tough (I'm not talking about deliberately going out to injure opponents BTW).

TowerHibs
23-10-2014, 04:55 PM
The $64,000 dollar question is WHY has there been this seemingly different attitude towards the derby between the two clubs on so many occasions?

It doesn't need a genius to notice the difference in attitude when one club frequently (not always) ends up losing or drawing matches they really should have won. It's been happening for years. It's nothing new. Farrell himself talks about games in the early 90s FFS. Why has that attitude not been drummed into the mentality at ER too? What's the problem? Presumably only the coaches and players can answer that question.

Winning football matches isn't just about ability. Good teams also need toughness - both physical and mental, organisation, and good strong leadership on and off the pitch, and dare I say it, a bit of nastiness when the going gets tough (I'm not talking about deliberately going out to injure opponents BTW).

i think its about a Culture at the clubs are so different. These are driven by owners and the board to lay the whole foundations of the mindset of the club. We have an owner that, yes cares but lacks the desired passion for the club that i would like to see. From there, it takes many years for that mindset to flow all the way down the club to the players and even the fans.

Hearts have a right few basket cases in control there but one constant i feel is how much getting one over Hibs means to them. A derby win immediately makes a feel good factor around the club not matter what **** is going on in the background. Clubs like Hibs, Hearts do not getting many shots of winning anything......but get a good run in the Derby and it can be become a memorable period for the club and thats why it should not be treated like a normal league game

cam2644
23-10-2014, 05:09 PM
Sums it up perfectly.

green day
23-10-2014, 05:20 PM
The ironic thing there is their youth teams regularly lose to our youth sides.


Yep, so I put it down to senior team coaches/attitudes. Hopefully our all new backroom staff won't accept that pish attitude

3pm
23-10-2014, 05:22 PM
I remember Farrell crunching Hateley in the 93 Cup Final. I thought Hateley was dead.

Better with someone like Farrell than a couple of the boys in the current midfield. At least, you can say he contributed something.

emerald green
23-10-2014, 05:51 PM
i think its about a Culture at the clubs are so different. These are driven by owners and the board to lay the whole foundations of the mindset of the club. We have an owner that, yes cares but lacks the desired passion for the club that i would like to see. From there, it takes many years for that mindset to flow all the way down the club to the players and even the fans.

:agree: Good points Tower, particularly the bit in bold. That's what I was getting at too when I referred to strong leadership on and off the pitch in my previous post.

Smartie
23-10-2014, 05:57 PM
Brilliant article, nail on head imo.

I liked Farrell as a player and he seems to have a good handle on what he offered. He had his limitations but was hard as nails and gave his all.

And iirc the goal referred to on this thread was an absolute peach.

bigwheel
23-10-2014, 06:18 PM
20 years son!

did the tracksuit fit well .?

Higgy115
23-10-2014, 06:39 PM
Well written wee blog. Quite like DF myself, as previous posters say, knew his limitations but gave all. Hope he does well in whatever he does.

eastterrace
23-10-2014, 06:44 PM
The $64,000 dollar question is WHY has there been this seemingly different attitude towards the derby between the two clubs on so many occasions?

It doesn't need a genius to notice the difference in attitude when one club frequently (not always) ends up losing or drawing matches they really should have won. It's been happening for years. It's nothing new. Farrell himself talks about games in the early 90s FFS. Why has that attitude not been drummed into the mentality at ER too? What's the problem? Presumably only the coaches and players can answer that question.

Winning football matches isn't just about ability. Good teams also need toughness - both physical and mental, organisation, and good strong leadership on and off the pitch, and dare I say it, a bit of nastiness when the going gets tough (I'm not talking about deliberately going out to injure opponents BTW).

thing is they deliberately went out to injure our better players, neil berry crocking paul wright for instance and he got away with it.berry was just a big huddie but he knew how to crock a player.

Iggy Pope
23-10-2014, 06:46 PM
You have completely missed the whole point of his story. It's not whether he was a poor player or not he's telling everyone that instead of Hibs treating this as a massive game like Hearts do, we seem to play it down and treat it like we are playing St. Mirren or Ross County.

Hibs attitude needs to change as this isn't a normal game it's against are rivals who can't stand each other. Not only that our record is horrific so maybe the players need to read this and hype themselves up, and for once batter into them like they do to us.

You win your individual battle along with most of your team mates chances are you win the game.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You've missed my point.
Lack of quality dragged us down then and has done for most of the seasons since. You don't know what goes on in a Hibs Dressing Room anymore than I do.
We only see what's on the pitch. David Farrell wasn't good enough and that's part of the reason we never won a derby he played in.
He can blog all he ****ing wants now. Its 20 years too late.

HFC 0-7
23-10-2014, 06:47 PM
Fair enough.We all have different interests. Hardly personal though if you choose to post it on the worldwideweb as you have. However. Do you think David Farrell was that good a player for us that his insight counts for much?
Will we seek the wit and wisdom of Roy Donovan in 20 years or so?

You dont need to be a great player, or even an average player to provide good insight! He has played in derbies and over 200 games for hibs so can definately provide more insight on Hibs and their preparation than most on here! There are good managers currently that were not good players!

Iggy Pope
23-10-2014, 06:50 PM
did the tracksuit fit well .?

Post # 13 suggests you might not know a player from a tracksuit chum.

Diclonius
23-10-2014, 06:50 PM
Good to see more evidence against the "Hearts buy derby wins" myth. The more we externally attribute our reasons for our woeful derby record, the more we'll continue to lose.

Iggy Pope
23-10-2014, 06:59 PM
You dont need to be a great player, or even an average player to provide good insight! He has played in derbies and over 200 games for hibs so can definately provide more insight on Hibs and their preparation than most on here! There are good managers currently that were not good players!

He played 200 games for Hibs you say. He never won in 9 derbies he says.
I say he can blog all he likes about mentality. Wish he had displayed some positive mentality at the time.

Christ, was anyone on here at these games?

Cos he kicked a few people about a bit we are in danger of overlooking the fact that he was ***** and part of the problem

If this was Willie Jamieson or Bobby Flavell or Derek Rodier or Bobby Hutchison or Duncan ****ing Lambie, god help us even James McPake blogging this bollox it would be getting annihilated.

CRAZYHIBBY
23-10-2014, 07:00 PM
Farrell done a job for us and gave his all ...he want the greatest but he never hid

Iggy Pope
23-10-2014, 07:09 PM
He makes the same point that Sauzee talks about in some Hibs video.

Sauzee mentions how Yogi drills it into all the players how they should perform in derbies. We also had the best derby record during my life in that period, though some of the players were no bad too.

Hopefully the players get that message for Sunday.

Agreed. Quality being the over riding factor there though Needs a wee bit more than attitude. John O'Neill and Matty Jack or David Farrell and Brian Hamilton anyone?

lord bunberry
23-10-2014, 07:12 PM
It's all very well drilling it into the laddies head's that we must beat hearts but how many players from our youth teams will start on Sunday? It's the mentality of our manager coaches and first team that needs to improve. Our record against them at every level below the first team is fine.

Hiber-nation
23-10-2014, 07:55 PM
You've missed my point.
Lack of quality dragged us down then and has done for most of the seasons since. You don't know what goes on in a Hibs Dressing Room anymore than I do.
We only see what's on the pitch. David Farrell wasn't good enough and that's part of the reason we never won a derby he played in.
He can blog all he ****ing wants now. Its 20 years too late.

Yep, I haven't read Farrell's blog but for the most part, we only win Derbies is when we have better players than them, it's nothing to do with attitude. The Tornadoes, the McLeish team, the odd game of the Mowbray/Collins era, a couple of games under Fenlon when hearts were utter gash. On the rare occasions in recent times when we've been above them in the league we usually beat them at Easter Road, with the odd exception. The only time I recall us being the underdogs and winning was the We Are Unbeatable derby. Maybe some statto might try to prove me wrong but I doubt it.

All comes down to quality not midfield scrappers.

ancient hibee
23-10-2014, 08:06 PM
Farrell tried hard but wasn't very good and played nowhere near 200 games for the first team.

Jonnyboy
23-10-2014, 08:08 PM
Farrell tried hard but wasn't very good and played nowhere near 200 games for the first team.

:agree:

http://www.fitbastats.com/hibs/player.php?playerid=6336

HFC 0-7
23-10-2014, 08:10 PM
He played 200 games for Hibs you say. He never won in 9 derbies he says.
I say he can blog all he likes about mentality. Wish he had displayed some positive mentality at the time.

Christ, was anyone on here at these games?

Cos he kicked a few people about a bit we are in danger of overlooking the fact that he was ***** and part of the problem

If this was Willie Jamieson or Bobby Flavell or Derek Rodier or Bobby Hutchison or Duncan ****ing Lambie, god help us even James McPake blogging this bollox it would be getting annihilated.

So do you disagree with what he is saying in that they always seem more up for it or is it just because he is saying it. You seem to have a disliking to him! I have seen many derbies, we have better teams, they have better teams sometimes they are about average, but overall they have always seemed that little bit more up for it. I think he is spot on with what he says regarding the mentality, they treat the derby like it's the only match, we treat it just like every other game.

you still don't seem to accept that him being a pro footballer, playing for hibs, playing in derbies has insight! He will have a hell of a lot more insight than you!

HFC 0-7
23-10-2014, 08:14 PM
Farrell tried hard but wasn't very good and played nowhere near 200 games for the first team.

No one said first team. Point being, he was at hibs for a long time and can provide more insight than most about the preparation of the team going into a derby.

wookie70
23-10-2014, 08:17 PM
A very good read and some great points. If Hibs are or were treating the Derby like any other game then it explains our record. You have to win the right to play football and we very rarely compete physically or mentally with Hearts. They essentially bully us and everyone knows that the only way you beat a bully is to stand up to them. Stubbs must learn from his mistakes in the first Derby and the Players have to be up for the game regardless of what the manager says.

If there is something I disagree with Farrell about it is that the Players themselves have the responsibility to win their individual battles regardless of the game plan. It doesn't need Alex Miller or Alan Stubbs to tell a player to kick/fight back. It should be a minimum requirement for a professional footballer.

portycabbage
23-10-2014, 08:56 PM
Yep, I haven't read Farrell's blog but for the most part, we only win Derbies is when we have better players than them, it's nothing to do with attitude. The Tornadoes, the McLeish team, the odd game of the Mowbray/Collins era, a couple of games under Fenlon when hearts were utter gash. On the rare occasions in recent times when we've been above them in the league we usually beat them at Easter Road, with the odd exception. The only time I recall us being the underdogs and winning was the We Are Unbeatable derby. Maybe some statto might try to prove me wrong but I doubt it.

All comes down to quality not midfield scrappers.

Re the bit in bold - Casper the Ghost game springs to mind. Not really a stat, admittedly.

Hiber-nation
23-10-2014, 09:21 PM
Re the bit in bold - Casper the Ghost game springs to mind. Not really a stat, admittedly.

Aye very true, definitely a one-off. I think we were 5th and they were 3rd but I suppose the amount of injuries we had was the reason we were such big underdogs. Chisholm, Thicot and O'Brien all started that night.

Mr White
23-10-2014, 09:54 PM
Aye very true, definitely a one-off. I think we were 5th and they were 3rd but I suppose the amount of injuries we had was the reason we were such big underdogs. Chisholm, Thicot and O'Brien all started that night.

2-1 in Mcleish's first derby in april 98 too but that's also just another rare exception to the rule you've highlighted unfortunately.

Iggy Pope
23-10-2014, 09:57 PM
So do you disagree with what he is saying in that they always seem more up for it or is it just because he is saying it. You seem to have a disliking to him! I have seen many derbies, we have better teams, they have better teams sometimes they are about average, but overall they have always seemed that little bit more up for it. I think he is spot on with what he says regarding the mentality, they treat the derby like it's the only match, we treat it just like every other game.

you still don't seem to accept that him being a pro footballer, playing for hibs, playing in derbies has insight! He will have a hell of a lot more insight than you!

Honestly? I haven't given him a thought in years. He was garbage for us, as were most of his team mates. That's why we lost derbies. And I witnessed the lot of them. Did you? Ultimately this standard of footballer is why we have now been relegated three times in my witness and its not easy. The 200 games for Hibs theory has now been pee peed on. Anyone can blog the "I was a hard man but crap at the footie side" ***** like this.He is not Norman Hunter. End of.
And ****ing hertz are never up for it on the occasions we **** them. End of again.

givescotlandfreedom
23-10-2014, 10:03 PM
He's bang on.

Iggy Pope
23-10-2014, 10:25 PM
He's bang on.

He was bang awful.

patlowe
24-10-2014, 08:33 AM
First off I think if Farrell can provide an insight into why we tend to lose derbies then I am absolutely fine with him writing this blog. I don't see why his level of ability or poor record in the derby should bar him from giving his opinion.

Personally I genuinely thought going into last season that we were finally going to turn the tide in this matter, given the circumstances, but incredibly, although somewhat predictably, what has happened in the last year and a bit is we have actually contrived to make the psychological gap between the two clubs even larger. If we're talking about bullying and being physical, I thought Hibs did go into derbies last season trying to bully what was essentially a bunch of boys, and they still lost. Even the win we scraped seemed like such a relief to fans that it almost re-emphasised the mental awareness that winning these games has become the exception to us rather than anything like the rule.

It's possibly rehashing a lot of what has been said but to me it is mental weakness - the only time we (really) had the upper hand over them in my time supporting Hibs was under McLeish but his teams were full of really strong characters - Sauzee, Mixu, Matty Jack, Yogi etc. Guys that just knew what it takes and were not going to be intimated by the spectre of a derby. It helped that they were good players and surrounded by good players of course. I don't think any manager has instilled that same core into the team since. Even the Mowbray/Collins teams, while they were full of good players, I felt were extremely weak mentally and, more often than not, crumbled under the pressure of derbies. Hearts managers (including Levein, which is ominous) always seem to understand that you need strong characters to build a team around for these games - Pressley, Neilson, Hartley, Black, McGowan etc, Christ even Ryan Stevenson. It also helped that they had a lot of good players over the intervening period too, for whatever reason.

Do we have that combination of mental strength and decent quality now under Stubbs? Probably not. Gray, Stevenson and Forster maybe. And El Alagui seemed to have it pre-injury. We desperately need a run of derby wins. Last season was such a great opportunity missed IMO.

Well that was a depressing write...

Stevie Reid
24-10-2014, 08:37 AM
First off I think if Farrell can provide an insight into why we tend to lose derbies then I am absolutely fine with him writing this blog. I don't see why his level or ability or poor record in the derby should bar him from giving his opinion.

Personally I genuinely thought going into last season that we were finally going to turn the tide in this matter, given the circumstances, but incredibly, although somewhat predictably, what has happened in the last year and a bit is we have actually contrived to make the psychological gap between the two clubs even larger. If we're talking about bullying and being physical, I thought Hibs did go into derbies last season trying to bully what was essentially a bunch of boys, and they still lost. Even the win we scraped seemed like such a relief to fans that it almost re-emphasised the mental awareness that winning these games has become the exception to us rather than anything like the rule.

It's possibly rehashing a lot of what has been said but to me it is mental weakness - the only time we (really) had the upper hand over them in my time supporting Hibs was under McLeish but his teams were full of really strong characters - Sauzee, Mixu, Matty Jack, Yogi etc. Guys that just knew what it takes and were not going to be intimated by the spectre of a derby. It helped that they were good players and surrounded by good players of course. I don't think any manager has instilled that same core into the team since. Even the Mowbray/Collins teams, while they were full of good players, I felt were extremely weak mentally and, more often than not, crumbled under the pressure of derbies. Hearts managers (including Levein, which is ominous) always seem to understand that you need strong characters to build a team around for these games - Pressley, Neilson, Hartley, Black, McGowan etc, Christ even Ryan Stevenson. It also helped that they had a lot of good players over the intervening period too, for whatever reason.

Do we have that combination of mental strength and decent quality now under Stubbs? Probably not. Gray, Stevenson and Forster maybe. And El Alagui seemed to have it pre-injury. We desperately need a run of derby wins. Last season was such a great opportunity missed IMO.

Well that was a depressing write...

Completely agree, the only time in my life of supporting Hibs that I felt confident going into derbies was under McLeish. Under Mowbray we were capable of beating them, but also took some hidings as well.

matty_f
24-10-2014, 09:35 AM
I'm not sure there is a huge gulf in mentality, the Yams have had way more than their fair share of 'luck' in recent times, 2 clear goals not given against them, God knows how many red cards missed at the time, even the last Derby there was nothing between the teams.
Last season was the biggest disappointment I've had against them, we had a better team but contrived to lose against them again and again.

AndyM_1875
24-10-2014, 11:01 AM
I'm not sure there is a huge gulf in mentality, the Yams have had way more than their fair share of 'luck' in recent times, 2 clear goals not given against them, God knows how many red cards missed at the time, even the last Derby there was nothing between the teams.
Last season was the biggest disappointment I've had against them, we had a better team but contrived to lose against them again and again.

That's certainly true Matty but we have also been mentally weak at times too many times. Under McLeish we had not just good players but also players who wouldn't take any crap from Hearts when they started their hammer throwing.
First rules for playing Hearts have to be don't get beat. Fight, battle, scrap, snarl and claw your way to it.

For too many years we've been more concerned about the performance. That hasn't worked. Fight fire with fire as far as I'm concerned.

Prior to the Millenium Derby Nick Colgan said the players all knew what it meant. "You make sure you don't lose". With player like Yogi, Sauzee, Shaun Dennis, Stuart Lovell, Mixu etc in the team you were on the way as they wouldn't get bullied or pushed about.
Half time in that game we were 2-0 up and Lovell is snarling in the tunnel coming out for the second half "This mob don't have 2 goals in them. Finish them off!!"

patlowe
24-10-2014, 11:08 AM
I'm not sure there is a huge gulf in mentality, the Yams have had way more than their fair share of 'luck' in recent times, 2 clear goals not given against them, God knows how many red cards missed at the time, even the last Derby there was nothing between the teams.
Last season was the biggest disappointment I've had against them, we had a better team but contrived to lose against them again and again.

That to me screams of a gulf in mentality IMO. I feel we are often already beaten going into derbies because we think, and possibly the fans do too to a certain extent, that we might be better than this lot but even if we play well, we're still very liable to lose. I'm not saying it's irreversible or insurmountable, but I think it's there.

Aldoo
24-10-2014, 11:59 AM
I'm not sure there is a huge gulf in mentality, the Yams have had way more than their fair share of 'luck' in recent times, 2 clear goals not given against them, God knows how many red cards missed at the time, even the last Derby there was nothing between the teams.
Last season was the biggest disappointment I've had against them, we had a better team but contrived to lose against them again and again.


Disagree with your first line. There is a massive gap in mentality. Hearts are pre-programmed to compete to the death against Hibs and it doesn't take a herculean effort for them to do so, any win we get against them seems to take absolutely everything we have and we just scrape by the odd goal (don't think we've won by 2 clear goals since the 'unbeatable derby????).

Look at the new year derby this year, we were on a good run, unbeaten in a few and at home, they were on the back of successive hammerings by Partick and Killie yet we still cling on for the dear life and need a penalty with 8 mins to go to get a win. If back then the roles were reversed would they have shown us such hospitality, no chance is the answer.

renato
24-10-2014, 12:00 PM
Under Mowbray we were capable of beating them, but also took some hidings as well.

Which to be fair was more often than not soley down to Simon Brown or Zibby throwing them a couple of goals every derby.

Try and think how many Jambo keepers (10 men derby apart) have cost them goals compared to ours? I remember counting Zibby's **** ups as the list began to grow, I'm sure he cost us in excess of 7 goals against them.

The savilles' best player every derby...

HFC 0-7
24-10-2014, 12:13 PM
I'm not sure there is a huge gulf in mentality, the Yams have had way more than their fair share of 'luck' in recent times, 2 clear goals not given against them, God knows how many red cards missed at the time, even the last Derby there was nothing between the teams.
Last season was the biggest disappointment I've had against them, we had a better team but contrived to lose against them again and again.


Kind of what he said in his blog where he talked about bring the better team but unable to score then the inevitable happened. They treat the derby as a much bigger game than we do IMO. Yes they have had a good few decisions of late but certainly as long as I can remember they have had the edge when a game wears on all square we get nervy and they don't.

Bad Martini
24-10-2014, 12:27 PM
With the exception of McLeish, the rest of our best results against the mutants has not come as we would expect and I honestly can admit that. Dont get me wrong, EVERY time we beat them is divine :greengrin but it's not always been expected and when it was, we either:

1) ****ed it up by making mistakes...
2) Absolutely bottled it
3) Didn't give enough of a ****...

...any mixture of all 3 is what we've had to deal with for years and it manifests itself more against THEM.

I could handle it better if it was always the first one...but it's not. I can't handle the second one well and I really canny stomach the third.

As for this one, well...I cant remember wanting to beat them this much for a long time. I do recall the last time we burst their bubble with their unbeatable pish and they are getting back to that mindset again.

Hope we rip them a new one.:aok:

ENDOF :flag:

Dashing Bob S
24-10-2014, 12:55 PM
With the exception of McLeish, the rest of our best results against the mutants has not come as we would expect and I honestly can admit that. Dont get me wrong, EVERY time we beat them is divine :greengrin but it's not always been expected and when it was, we either:

1) ****ed it up by making mistakes...
2) Absolutely bottled it
3) Didn't give enough of a ****...

...any mixture of all 3 is what we've had to deal with for years and it manifests itself more against THEM.

I could handle it better if it was always the first one...but it's not. I can't handle the second one well and I really canny stomach the third.

As for this one, well...I cant remember wanting to beat them this much for a long time. I do recall the last time we burst their bubble with their unbeatable pish and they are getting back to that mindset again.

Hope we rip them a new one.:aok:

ENDOF :flag:

Unless there is such a gulf in class between the teams (7-0,6-2) which is rarely the case in modern football, its pointless trying to win a derby on football skill alone. It tends to be the team that wants it most which is successful. Here we are at a disadvantage as the culture of our support demands that we try and play football, whereas Hearts fans are happy to crane their necks all day long looking to sky as long as they scab three points against us. I've lost count of the number of times the two teams are battling away, producing eye-bleeding stuff in a 0-0 draw, and the Hibs crowd get bored and restless and start urging the team to keep it on the deck. Then we look impressive for about 10 mins, then Hearts break away and score and heads go down.

We have to, as a team, support and club, treat the derby as a one-off festival of hate, loathing and despicable cheating that has nothing whatsoever to do with football. Only then will our record improve.

Eyrie
24-10-2014, 01:24 PM
Unless there is such a gulf in class between the teams (7-0,6-2) which is rarely the case in modern football, its pointless trying to win a derby on football skill alone. It tends to be the team that wants it most which is successful. Here we are at a disadvantage as the culture of our support demands that we try and play football, whereas Hearts fans are happy to crane their necks all day long looking to sky as long as they scab three points against us. I've lost count of the number of times the two teams are battling away, producing eye-bleeding stuff in a 0-0 draw, and the Hibs crowd get bored and restless and start urging the team to keep it on the deck. Then we look impressive for about 10 mins, then Hearts break away and score and heads go down.

We have to, as a team, support and club, treat the derby as a one-off festival of hate, loathing and despicable cheating that has nothing whatsoever to do with football. Only then will our record improve.

Agreed. Feels like every derby goes the same way - they drag us down to their level and beat us with experience.

bighairyfaeleith
24-10-2014, 06:08 PM
I see the Een have ripped his blog off now, *****y wee rag that it is.

Alfred E Newman
24-10-2014, 06:36 PM
Chatting to a Hearts youth coach a few weeks ago (good hibby too) and despite the fact that he coaches a young side who don't play in a competitive league, he was told right from his first day that they don't lose to Hibs. Drilling the mindset into the youngsters from day one that they don't lose to Hibs. That's all the way through the club. Gives you a decent insight to how they treat derbies.

They mustn't be listening. Have we not won the East of Scotland Shield (youth teams now) something like 10 years in a row?

RIP Bestie
25-10-2014, 10:11 AM
Honestly? I haven't given him a thought in years. He was garbage for us, as were most of his team mates. That's why we lost derbies. And I witnessed the lot of them. Did you? Ultimately this standard of footballer is why we have now been relegated three times in my witness and its not easy. The 200 games for Hibs theory has now been pee peed on. Anyone can blog the "I was a hard man but crap at the footie side" ***** like this.He is not Norman Hunter. End of.
And ****ing hertz are never up for it on the occasions we **** them. End of again.
Enjoyed reading your posts on this thread Iggy but you're probably flogging a dead donkey trying to get some people to understand your point.
You are dead right, the cream will always rise to the top and when we have had good teams we have had the upper hand in these games.
The big problem is that there is an acceptance of mediocrity amongst our support and just because someone shows a bit of heart and grit makes them accepted even although their ability as a footballer is somewhat below the standard we should be expecting to see at the club. Some of this ilk are even hero worshipped amongst our support As Farrell himself said, during his time at the club we had some great players like Wright Jackson O'Neil and McAllister but they were let down by the likes of Farrell, Fellinger, McIntyre, Beaumont,, Hamilton, Orr and the Miller brothers. That is the reason our record is so poor. I don't think that McLeish would have had to tell Sauzee, Latapy, O'Neill et Al, that they had to change their style against a team of players that couldn't lace their boots.

RIP Bestie
25-10-2014, 10:16 AM
I'm not sure there is a huge gulf in mentality, the Yams have had way more than their fair share of 'luck' in recent times, 2 clear goals not given against them, God knows how many red cards missed at the time, even the last Derby there was nothing between the teams.
Last season was the biggest disappointment I've had against them, we had a bnetter team but contrived to lose against them again and again.
Did we?

matty_f
25-10-2014, 10:17 AM
Did we?

I would say so. We were significantly better on results in the league until Butcher got his hands on the team.

matty_f
25-10-2014, 10:26 AM
Kind of what he said in his blog where he talked about bring the better team but unable to score then the inevitable happened. They treat the derby as a much bigger game than we do IMO. Yes they have had a good few decisions of late but certainly as long as I can remember they have had the edge when a game wears on all square we get nervy and they don't.

I'm not sure I agree with that either, the game they won where we could have sent them down (Forster's disallowed goal), they were one up when he 'scored' and we were in the ascendency. There was every chance that had we been given that goal we'd have gone on to score again. As it was, we had to chase the game and they hit us on the break for their second. They never won that game because of mental fortitude, they won it because the linesman dug them out a massive hole.

When Fenlon resigned after losing a derby, the Yams rode their luck massively in that game - it wasn't down to a better attitude that they won that night, we could easily have been 4 up by the time they scored (with about their only attack), after that they parked the bus and we struggled to break them down - again that wasn't down to any sort of mental resilience on their part in the same way that Falkirk beating us at Easter Road this season wasn't down to that.

The 0-0 where Sparky's goal wasn't given - we were miles better than them that day and they were delighted to leave with a point, again if anything our attitude was better than theirs in that game. Or the New Year derby where Lewis Stevenson won the penalty as the game was closing out, we looked mentally and technically better than them that night as well.

The first derby this season, we started better than them and were (IMHO) controlling the game when we got the penalty. Liam Craig misses it and the Yams got a lift from that, but even then they weren't dominating us and bar the last few moments where they were taking the ball into the corners, we were the better team pushing for an equaliser - attitude and mentality were just as good as the Yams again, IMHO.

I think there have been exceptions, but I would say generally speaking Hibs players have gone into the derbies showing just as much will to win and fight as the Yams have, but we have carried nowhere near as much luck, and certainly haven't had the huge helping hands that they've had from the refs.

RIP Bestie
25-10-2014, 10:33 AM
I would say so. We were significantly better on results in the league until Butcher got his hands on the team.
Forgive me if I'm wrong but I'm sure we accumulated less points than they did.
Butcher was horrendous but bottom line is that the majority of the players weren't good enough.
Although they were only young laddie's their players were better than ours even although it took them a while to gel as a team. Don't get me wrong I'm not for one minute saying that they had a team of good players. But they were better than us. As Pat Stanton says, there were people at our club who weren't fit to wear the jersey and they are not here anymore.

bigwheel
25-10-2014, 10:35 AM
Enjoyed reading your posts on this thread Iggy but you're probably flogging a dead donkey trying to get some people to understand your point.
You are dead right, the cream will always rise to the top and when we have had good teams we have had the upper hand in these games.
The big problem is that there is an acceptance of mediocrity amongst our support and just because someone shows a bit of heart and grit makes them accepted even although their ability as a footballer is somewhat below the standard we should be expecting to see at the club. Some of this ilk are even hero worshipped amongst our support As Farrell himself said, during his time at the club we had some great players like Wright Jackson O'Neil and McAllister but they were let down by the likes of Farrell, Fellinger, McIntyre, Beaumont,, Hamilton, Orr and the Miller brothers. That is the reason our record is so poor. I don't think that McLeish would have had to tell Sauzee, Latapy, O'Neill et Al, that they had to change their style against a team of players that couldn't lace their boots.

There is no correlation between a players ability and their insight on football ...IP has been batting on about Farrell being a poor player, therefore he has no interest in his views ....Jose Mourinho ? Arsene Wenger ? Paul Clements ? Just because Farrell was no Latapy doesn't make his blog any less interesting ....

Iggy Pope
25-10-2014, 10:36 AM
Enjoyed reading your posts on this thread Iggy but you're probably flogging a dead donkey trying to get some people to understand your point.
You are dead right, the cream will always rise to the top and when we have had good teams we have had the upper hand in these games.
The big problem is that there is an acceptance of mediocrity amongst our support and just because someone shows a bit of heart and grit makes them accepted even although their ability as a footballer is somewhat below the standard we should be expecting to see at the club. Some of this ilk are even hero worshipped amongst our support As Farrell himself said, during his time at the club we had some great players like Wright Jackson O'Neil and McAllister but they were let down by the likes of Farrell, Fellinger, McIntyre, Beaumont,, Hamilton, Orr and the Miller brothers. That is the reason our record is so poor. I don't think that McLeish would have had to tell Sauzee, Latapy, O'Neill et Al, that they had to change their style against a team of players that couldn't lace their boots.

Absolutely.

RIP Bestie
25-10-2014, 10:44 AM
There is no correlation between a players ability and their insight on football ...IP has been batting on about Farrell being a poor player, therefore he has no interest in his views ....Jose Mourinho ? Arsene Wenger ? Paul Clements ? Just because Farrell was no Latapy doesn't make his blog any less interesting ....
I don't get that from him.
What I take from his posts is that he disagrees that the results were down to attitude and actually down to the fact our team contained players who weren't good enough. Yes he points to Farrell as being part of that problem but that was all he did and I'm my opinion he is right.
I don't think his intention was to say he didn't respect Farrels opinion or that he shouldn't have one just that he didn't agree with it and would be more interested in hearing from someone who actually made a telling contribution in these games.
What's wrong with that?

Big_Franck
25-10-2014, 10:49 AM
I'm not sure I agree with that either, the game they won where we could have sent them down (Forster's disallowed goal), they were one up when he 'scored' and we were in the ascendency. There was every chance that had we been given that goal we'd have gone on to score again. As it was, we had to chase the game and they hit us on the break for their second. They never won that game because of mental fortitude, they won it because the linesman dug them out a massive hole.

When Fenlon resigned after losing a derby, the Yams rode their luck massively in that game - it wasn't down to a better attitude that they won that night, we could easily have been 4 up by the time they scored (with about their only attack), after that they parked the bus and we struggled to break them down - again that wasn't down to any sort of mental resilience on their part in the same way that Falkirk beating us at Easter Road this season wasn't down to that.

The 0-0 where Sparky's goal wasn't given - we were miles better than them that day and they were delighted to leave with a point, again if anything our attitude was better than theirs in that game. Or the New Year derby where Lewis Stevenson won the penalty as the game was closing out, we looked mentally and technically better than them that night as well.

The first derby this season, we started better than them and were (IMHO) controlling the game when we got the penalty. Liam Craig misses it and the Yams got a lift from that, but even then they weren't dominating us and bar the last few moments where they were taking the ball into the corners, we were the better team pushing for an equaliser - attitude and mentality were just as good as the Yams again, IMHO.

I think there have been exceptions, but I would say generally speaking Hibs players have gone into the derbies showing just as much will to win and fight as the Yams have, but we have carried nowhere near as much luck, and certainly haven't had the huge helping hands that they've had from the refs.


This for me. Far too much is made of this apparent difference in mentality because I just don't see it. The vast majority of derbies that I have seen have been decided by one team having a better quality of player than the other. Unfortunately the fact that they spent much more than they could afford on players for the best part of two decades meant they won the majority of the games in that period.

A good few have been hugely influenced by questionable decisions that favoured Hearts. A couple of them highlighted above, but there was also the numerous retrospective red cards apparently missed by the referees and then of course we have craig thompson.

Unless they continue to overspend on players the derbies will be played on a level playing field over the next few years for the first time in my adult life. Bring it on.

matty_f
25-10-2014, 10:50 AM
Forgive me if I'm wrong but I'm sure we accumulated less points than they did.
Butcher was horrendous but bottom line is that the majority of the players weren't good enough.
Although they were only young laddie's their players were better than ours even although it took them a while to gel as a team. Don't get me wrong I'm not for one minute saying that they had a team of good players. But they were better than us. As Pat Stanton says, there were people at our club who weren't fit to wear the jersey and they are not here anymore.

Couple of points - first, pre-Butcher we had accumulated more points than them. Second, the vast majority of their points came once they were relegated and the pressure was off, whereas our team went into serious decline under Butcher. The negative impact Butcher had on that side cannot be understated, however I stand by my original statement that we had the better side. It just makes the Butcher shambles all the more infuriating.

RIP Bestie
25-10-2014, 10:55 AM
Couple of points - first, pre-Butcher we had accumulated more points than them. Second, the vast majority of their points came once they were relegated and the pressure was off, whereas our team went into serious decline under Butcher. The negative impact Butcher had on that side cannot be understated, however I stand by my original statement that we had the better side. It just makes the Butcher shambles all the more infuriating.
Fair enough. That's your opinion and you're entitled to it.
My opinion is that this is probably more proof of the acceptance of mediocrity amongst our support.

matty_f
25-10-2014, 11:01 AM
Fair enough. That's your opinion and you're entitled to it.
My opinion is that this is probably more proof of the acceptance of mediocrity amongst our support.

In what way does that accept mediocrity?

Iggy Pope
25-10-2014, 11:20 AM
There is no correlation between a players ability and their insight on football ...IP has been batting on about Farrell being a poor player, therefore he has no interest in his views ....Jose Mourinho ? Arsene Wenger ? Paul Clements ? Just because Farrell was no Latapy doesn't make his blog any less interesting ....

Batting on?
In his insightful blog, he fails to point out that he was part of the malaise. Why he thinks he can lend advice on how to win a derby is beyond me. That's the correlation right there. And it's got **** all to do with Wenger. He never played for us. Probably giving him a better record than David Farrell.
And diversity leads to discussion friend. I'm entitled to lend my view on the subject (s).

David Farrell was garbage.

RIP Bestie
25-10-2014, 11:22 AM
In what way does that accept mediocrity?
This part. Butcher or not the vast majority of those players were not good enough to pull on a Hibs Jersey.
Thats what infuriates me

however I stand by my original statement that we had the better side. It just makes the Butcher shambles all the more infuriating.

Phil D. Rolls
25-10-2014, 11:28 AM
Pay no attention to the bit where he talks about fans getting edgy. We all know that the players don't respond to the fans at all.

bigwheel
25-10-2014, 11:44 AM
Batting on?
In his insightful blog, he fails to point out that he was part of the malaise. Why he thinks he can lend advice on how to win a derby is beyond me. That's the correlation right there. And it's got **** all to do with Wenger. He never played for us. Probably giving him a better record than David Farrell.
And diversity leads to discussion friend. I'm entitled to lend my view on the subject (s).

David Farrell was garbage.

It's good to have different views....Farrell's are interesting, your's not so much .... Anyway, don't really want to get into an exchange - let's hope we have a happy Sunday ...

Iggy Pope
25-10-2014, 11:52 AM
It's good to have different views....Farrell's are interesting, your's not so much .... Anyway, don't really want to get into an exchange - let's hope we have a happy Sunday ...

You don't seem to have a view at all though. Before you go. Did you ever see him play? Polite enquiry.

RIP Bestie
25-10-2014, 11:58 AM
You don't seem to have a view at all though. Before you go. Did you ever see him play? Polite enquiry.
I did.
Tried like a bear. Threw himself about the place. . . . . . Now where have u heard that before???

Iggy Pope
25-10-2014, 12:05 PM
I did.
Tried like a bear. Threw himself about the place. . . . . . Now where have u heard that before???

:greengrin
I was lucky enough to meet Matty Jack once. In Arnhem where he sat amongst the Hibbies at the Vitesse friendly. He'd driven down from Germany to see the team he loved.

That would be a blog worth reading.

RIP Bestie
25-10-2014, 12:12 PM
:greengrin
I was lucky enough to meet Matty Jack once. In Arnhem where he sat amongst the Hibbies at the Vitesse friendly. He'd driven down from Germany to see the team he loved.

That would be a blog worth reading.
Only after James McPakes!! :greengrin

NAE NOOKIE
25-10-2014, 12:20 PM
First on David Farrell .... saw him play loads of times and he wasn't a good player, but he was always up for it. Look at sport around the world, plenty of great players in a multitude of sports are coached by people who have won nothing and in their own right were average. Not being able to do something yourself does not mean you don't know what needs to be done and how to do it.

As for the attitude thing. One thing we do have in our camp is a manager who has played a number of times in two of the worlds greatest derby matches and not only that grew up supporting Everton ..... don't tell me he doesn't know how much it means to win a derby and how much it means to supporters. I read once that since its inception Everton v Liverpool has the highest card count of any match in the EPL. TBF Everton have an even worse derby record than us, but historically they tend to be up against a much better team than they are.

This season Hibs have had a terrible time breaking down defences, but funnily enough our best performances have been against teams who are supposed to be better than us. Twice at Ibrox and at Tynecastle where we certainly were not outplayed, add in a win at Ross County and it tells me that we are at our best when teams are obliged to come at us.

God Petrie
25-10-2014, 12:23 PM
Davie Farrell calling someone too soft is akin to Hitler calling someone too left wing.

Keith_M
25-10-2014, 12:24 PM
You don't seem to have a view at all though. Before you go. Did you ever see him play? Polite enquiry.



As you seem to love questioning other people's credentials...


How many Edinburgh Derbies has Farrell played in?

How many Edinburgh Derbies have YOU played in?


I think I'd prefer to take the word of someone who actually knows what they're talking about, limited player or not.

matty_f
25-10-2014, 12:35 PM
This part. Butcher or not the vast majority of those players were not good enough to pull on a Hibs Jersey.
Thats what infuriates me

however I stand by my original statement that we had the better side. It just makes the Butcher shambles all the more infuriating.

That doesn't make sense, to be honest. Saying we had a better team than them does not extend to saying we were good enough to be acceptable.

RIP Bestie
25-10-2014, 12:57 PM
That doesn't make sense, to be honest. Saying we had a better team than them does not extend to saying we were good enough to be acceptable.
All I'm saying is that it is easy to aim all of our fury at Butcher.
i agree wholeheartedly that his tenure was an unmitigated disaster but it should not cloud the fact that the players were not good enough to play for this club. It sickens me that so any of them have the club I love on their CVs.
Fenlon did not leave for no reason. The players were not good enough under him and they were not good enough under Butcher. Having better players than a team who were in administration and banned from signing replacements for players they had to release is not a measure of acceptance for me. Butchers management of those players wasn't the thing that infuriated me most, it was the fact that these players were not good enough to be able to make a difference when they pulled that jersey over their heads that was a fact both pre and post Butcher. Yes we may have stayed up without Butchers influence but I want so so much more than that for this club

superfurryhibby
25-10-2014, 01:04 PM
:greengrin
I was lucky enough to meet Matty Jack once. In Arnhem where he sat amongst the Hibbies at the Vitesse friendly. He'd driven down from Germany to see the team he loved.

That would be a blog worth reading.

To be fair Matty Jack was pretty pish too. One good season really.
Like Farrell he tried hard and got stuck in to the physical side of it.

bigwheel
25-10-2014, 04:17 PM
You don't seem to have a view at all though. Before you go. Did you ever see him play? Polite enquiry.

In answer to your question. Yes, saw him play throughout his Hibs career - although , that has nothing to do with wether Farrell's blog is interesting or not ...and ps. I do have a view - Farrell is a good writer , his blog is insightful, not just his latest post and he was a decent scottish pro - who played at a level I never did ...but according to you he's garbage ...

SquashedFrogg
25-10-2014, 05:25 PM
To be fair Matty Jack was pretty pish too. One good season really.
Like Farrell he tried hard and got stuck in to the physical side of it.

Agreed :agree:

Actually Farrell was similar to Jack was in the sense that they got stuck in. Jack was fortunate to play in amongst some great players.

Farrell was an honest player. The type of player I grew up watching mostly. At least you knew when guys like him, Willie Miller, Hunter, Graeme Mitchell (could list plenty) walked off the pitch, they gave their all. (albeit maybe not played that well)

Not true these days for many players.

SquashedFrogg
25-10-2014, 05:29 PM
As someone mentioned earlier, his tackle on Hateley in 93 was impressive. First 3 footed tackle I've ever seen (never seen one since)