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Hibbyradge
18-10-2014, 08:28 PM
While I think there is something in Mibbe's Aye's remarks that "Lazy" is the default criticism for black players, there have been plenty white one's which have suffered the same fate.

Garry O'Connor (http://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?231072-Garry-O-Connor-Hanlon-Wotherspoon-Griffiths-put-the-boot-in-here&p=3151934&viewfull=1#post3151934)

Rowan Vine (http://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?278471-Rowan-Vine&p=3899174&viewfull=1#post3899174)

Alan Gow (http://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?187095-Gow-punted-by-Plymouth&p=2510724&viewfull=1#post2510724)

Derek Riordan (http://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?200696-Riordan&highlight=lazy)

Paul Cairney (http://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?264372-What-has-happened-to-Cairney&p=3603680&viewfull=1#post3603680)

I think this could be an interesting, and educational, wee discussion.

DaveF
18-10-2014, 08:32 PM
While I think there is something in Mibbe's Aye's remarks that "Lazy" is the default criticism for black players, there have been plenty white one's which have suffered the same fate.

Garry O'Connor (http://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?231072-Garry-O-Connor-Hanlon-Wotherspoon-Griffiths-put-the-boot-in-here&p=3151934&viewfull=1#post3151934)

Rowan Vine (http://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?278471-Rowan-Vine&p=3899174&viewfull=1#post3899174)

Alan Gow (http://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?187095-Gow-punted-by-Plymouth&p=2510724&viewfull=1#post2510724)

Colin Nish (http://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?179574-Are-you-still-willing-to-defend-Colin-Nish-im-curious&p=2416336&viewfull=1#post2416336)

Derek Riordan (http://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?200696-Riordan&highlight=lazy)

Paul Cairney (http://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?264372-What-has-happened-to-Cairney&p=3603680&viewfull=1#post3603680)

I think this could be an interesting, and educational, wee discussion.

I just don't think that's true at all and is, dare I say it, political correctness gone mad :wink:

As stated on the main thread, Berbatov is the ultimate lazy ******* and he wasn't black the last time I checked. Nor was Riordan.

Hibbyradge
18-10-2014, 08:33 PM
I just don't think that's true at all and is, dare I say it, political correctness gone mad :wink:

As stated on the main thread, Berbatov is the ultimate lazy ******* and he wasn't black the last time I checked. Nor was Riordan.

I don't even know what that means.

esjorto
18-10-2014, 08:34 PM
Ozil is accused by many as being lazy.

Golden Bear
18-10-2014, 08:35 PM
The king of supposed laziness was undoubtedly the brilliant Ally Mcleod. The guy was a legend in my eyes but a waste of a jersey according to others. The guy oozed class, beer belly or not!

Hiber-nation
18-10-2014, 08:36 PM
No idea where the black players being lazy cliche comes from, not something I've ever heard of or thought of before.

Laziest player I've seen in a Hibs jersey was Mr Unseen Brian Kerr, hooked by Mixu after not bothering his erse marking his man (Anders Svensson?) when he scored in that game against Elfsborg, shrugged his shoulders after Jonesy gave him a bollocking and was promptly subbed, never to play for Hibs again.

LaMotta
18-10-2014, 08:36 PM
While I think there is something in Mibbe's Aye's remarks that "Lazy" is the default criticism for black players, there have been plenty white one's which have suffered the same fate.

Garry O'Connor (http://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?231072-Garry-O-Connor-Hanlon-Wotherspoon-Griffiths-put-the-boot-in-here&p=3151934&viewfull=1#post3151934)

Rowan Vine (http://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?278471-Rowan-Vine&p=3899174&viewfull=1#post3899174)

Alan Gow (http://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?187095-Gow-punted-by-Plymouth&p=2510724&viewfull=1#post2510724)

Derek Riordan (http://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?200696-Riordan&highlight=lazy)

Paul Cairney (http://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?264372-What-has-happened-to-Cairney&p=3603680&viewfull=1#post3603680)

I think this could be an interesting, and educational, wee discussion.

Lyndon Andrews wasn't lazy, in fact he was a workhorse if memory serves me right :greengrin

DaveF
18-10-2014, 08:39 PM
Oh come on D, I know you are not that stupid so let's not split hairs.

It's an easily attached label for point scoring purposes.

Malonga does look lazy in his effort compared to others - as did Riordan when he played. It's just down to a personal traits and ability and has got **** all to do with race or colour as some try to be portraying it.

Was Claude Makalele lazy? He's black.

Hibbyradge
18-10-2014, 08:39 PM
I just don't think that's true at all and is, dare I say it, political correctness gone mad :wink:

As stated on the main thread, Berbatov is the ultimate lazy ******* and he wasn't black the last time I checked. Nor was Riordan.

Actually, as I read that again, the fact that Berbatov and or anyone else, gets called lazy, doesn't mean it's not the default insult for black players. Or should I say non-white players?

Osbourne, Soares, Benji, Zemamma, Donaldson etc all got called lazy too.

Hibbyradge
18-10-2014, 08:46 PM
Oh come on D, I know you are not that stupid so let's not split hairs.



I'm not stupid, but I really don't know what "Political correctness gone mad" means.

That's because it means nothing. As you say, it's a convenient phrase to dismiss any argument which doesn't suit certain viewpoints, like those voiced by the Daily Mail.




Was Claude Makalele lazy? He's black.


I don't know if he was lazy, or was called lazy. That's not the point.

DaveF
18-10-2014, 08:48 PM
Actually, as I read that again, the fact that Berbatov and or anyone else, gets called lazy, doesn't mean it's not the default insult for black players. Or should I say non-white players?

Osbourne, Soares, Benji, Zemamma, Donaldson etc all got called lazy too.

That's just too stupid to even begin debating against.

You are basically saying that its OK to call a white player lazy but wrong to call a black (or non white) player lazy as it's a 'default' insult?

Bonkers.

DaveF
18-10-2014, 08:50 PM
Actually, as I read that again, the fact that Berbatov and or anyone else, gets called lazy, doesn't mean it's not the default insult for black players. Or should I say non-white players?

Osbourne, Soares, Benji, Zemamma, Donaldson etc all got called lazy too.

They were also called brilliant, superb, fantastic and a whole host of other praise worthy names during their time. Was that wrong?

This is the kind of thread that drives me mad so I'm out.

SMAXXA
18-10-2014, 08:51 PM
I just don't think that's true at all and is, dare I say it, political correctness gone mad :wink:

As stated on the main thread, Berbatov is the ultimate lazy ******* and he wasn't black the last time I checked. Nor was Riordan.

It's an interesting one that because I was speaking to Clayton Blackmore ex Man U and he was of the opinion that berbatov was the closest Man U have came to cantona since the king left.

Hibbyradge
18-10-2014, 08:51 PM
That's just too stupid to even begin debating against.



You're chucking the word stupid about a bit too freely tonight, Dave.


That's just too stupid to even begin debating against.

You are basically saying that its OK to call a white player lazy but wrong to call a black (or non white) player lazy as it's a 'default' insult?



I haven't said anything of the sort.

hibsbollah
18-10-2014, 08:51 PM
Being 'lazy' is (or hopefully was) a widespread default criticism of foreign players, often black. The prejudice was that they couldnt cope with the weather, the pace of the game, the hard work. Remember Ron Atkinson? 'This is what we call in the game a ****ing lazy n####$'.

The fact that some white players are also called lazy doesn't mean the prejudice doesnt exist.

marleyhib
18-10-2014, 08:56 PM
Stevie Archibald, boy was he class though!

DaveF
18-10-2014, 08:58 PM
Being 'lazy' is (or hopefully was) a widespread default criticism of foreign players, often black. The prejudice was that they couldnt cope with the weather, the pace of the game, the hard work. Remember Ron Atkinson? 'This is what we call in the game a ****ing lazy n####$'.

The fact that some white players are also called lazy doesn't mean the prejudice doesnt exist.

I agree - Guys like Modric, Hierro, Forlan, Veron and a whole host of other foreign players had the lazy label tagged to them. My point is that its not just a default 'black' thing as the OP suggests.

Hibbyradge
18-10-2014, 09:09 PM
Being 'lazy' is (or hopefully was) a widespread default criticism of foreign players, often black. The prejudice was that they couldnt cope with the weather, the pace of the game, the hard work. Remember Ron Atkinson? 'This is what we call in the game a ****ing lazy n####$'.

The fact that some white players are also called lazy doesn't mean the prejudice doesnt exist.

I found this. (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/886214-20-laziest-players-in-world-football)

Of course, it proves nothing, but none of this particular journalist's choices as the laziest top 20 are British.

9 out of the top 10, however, are black, with his number one, bizarrely, being Tevez.

CallumLaidlaw
18-10-2014, 09:15 PM
Rowan Vine was the laziest player I've seen in a Hibs shirt!

DaveF
18-10-2014, 09:16 PM
I found this. (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/886214-20-laziest-players-in-world-football)

Of course, it proves nothing, but none of this particular journalist's choices as the laziest top 20 are British.

9 out of the top 10, however, are black, with his number one, bizarrely, being Tevez.

That guy looks to be as much a journalist as you or I :greengrin

hibsbollah
18-10-2014, 09:24 PM
I found this. (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/886214-20-laziest-players-in-world-football)

Of course, it proves nothing, but none of this particular journalist's choices as the laziest top 20 are British.

9 out of the top 10, however, are black, with his number one, bizarrely, being Tevez.

Bizarre is right. Tevez is one of the most ferocious hard workers in world football.

You'll never prove anything one way or another.

Squealing pig
18-10-2014, 09:27 PM
Rougier definitely one of the laziest players I've seen but also one if the best.

Smartie
18-10-2014, 09:35 PM
I think linking race and "black" players with being lazy is absolute nonsense.

It is interesting though to think of footballers from certain cultures and the cultures that exist in their own countries, and I'm highlighting this mainly in relation to British strikers (regardless of ethnicity) and what is expected of them.

I remember Freddy Kanoute being interviewed when he was playing in Spain and he was asked why he thought he was doing so well for Valencia (?) when he didn't exactly excel at West Ham or Spurs. He basically said that in Spain he was expected to hang around the box and when a chance came along he was fresh to burst into action and take it which suited his strengths. In England he was expected to cover every blade of grass, get stuck into challenges, close defenders down in addition to scoring and creating chances - which did not suit him so much.

It may explain why some players come to Britsh football and excel, whereas some with big reputations toil.

Malonga's new to British football and is probably still adapting to what's expected of him and his body language can make him look casual at times. But he seems to be able to spark into life at just the right times in games too. It'll be interesting to see how he progresses over time and whether the extra workload will add to or detract from his game.

I also remember thinking when I read that Kanoute interview that it sounded like Spanish football would have suited Deeks down to the ground if that was what was expected of a striker out there - he is the best natural finisher I've seen. It beggars belief that somehow people at Easter Road wanted and expected more from him and claimed that he was lazy. Big GOC was there to do his donkey work for him!

NORTHERNHIBBY
18-10-2014, 09:45 PM
Beastie didn't break a lot of sweat. Neiter did Stevie Cowan.

Bishop Hibee
18-10-2014, 09:53 PM
Beastie didn't break a lot of sweat. Neiter did Stevie Cowan.

Uncanny! I was thinking of these 2 before reaching the end of this thread. Joe McBride Jnr was also one from the 80's who often got stick for perceived lazyness.

erin go bragh
18-10-2014, 10:17 PM
Uncanny! I was thinking of these 2 before reaching the end of this thread. Joe McBride Jnr was also one from the 80's who often got stick for perceived lazyness.

Ha ha . So was aye . Also add Dougie Bell to that list .

Ggtth

ekhibee
19-10-2014, 12:51 AM
I'm not confusing laziness with ability when I say I think Pat McGinlay was one of the laziest players for Hibs. He was a good player when he wanted to be, and to be fair to him he was played out of position from time to time. Scored some great goals for us, and definitely had ability, but I used to stand in the east just back from where his wife would be standing, and she used to shout at him all the time, to the effect of "McGinlay, get yer f***** arse in gear". And before anybody asks, I don't know why she was in the terracing when she would surely have got 1 of the posh seats instead. She was really good looking too, but that's not got anything to do with it !

sahib
19-10-2014, 01:00 AM
I'm not confusing laziness with ability when I say I think Pat McGinlay was one of the laziest players for Hibs. He was a good player when he wanted to be, and to be fair to him he was played out of position from time to time. Scored some great goals for us, and definitely had ability, but I used to stand in the east just back from where his wife would be standing, and she used to shout at him all the time, to the effect of "McGinlay, get yer f***** arse in gear". And before anybody asks, I don't know why she was in the terracing when she would surely have got 1 of the posh seats instead. She was really good looking too, but that's not got anything to do with it !

Are you sure this isn't some sort of, recurrent, erotic fantasy you are having?

Liberal Hibby
19-10-2014, 01:17 AM
Aye and none of you have seen Ally McLeod play - who was white fat and lgenuinely lazy. But still found time to score 99 goals from midfield (without moving a muscle).

However it is a horrible and lazy stereotype to assume black or north african players are lazy.

Septimus
19-10-2014, 06:14 AM
The king of supposed laziness was undoubtedly the brilliant Ally Mcleod. The guy was a legend in my eyes but a waste of a jersey according to others. The guy oozed class, beer belly or not!

Agreed. He had a laid back appearance which was deceptive. Jim Baxter could likewise look disinterested but was one of the finest ever to play the game.

Hibernia&Alba
19-10-2014, 07:03 AM
And the winner is - Matt Le Tissier. But what a player.

weecounty hibby
19-10-2014, 08:33 AM
And the winner is - Matt Le Tissier. But what a player.

Couldnt lace Ally McLeods boots. In the playing or "laziness" stakes. Ally was my first real Hibs hero. What a player he would have been if only he had run about a bit. Le Tissier was no bad as well tho

Keith_M
19-10-2014, 08:36 AM
Racist

Keith_M
19-10-2014, 08:39 AM
p.s. Could I also add this legend of laziness...

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/c.scott2/pastplayers/andyritchie.jpg

Andy Ritchie

Tom Hart RIP
19-10-2014, 09:24 AM
The king of supposed laziness was undoubtedly the brilliant Ally Mcleod. The guy was a legend in my eyes but a waste of a jersey according to others. The guy oozed class, beer belly or not!

Agree 100%. One of the most skilful players ever to play for Hibs

we are hibs
19-10-2014, 09:46 AM
Anthony stokes.

emerald green
19-10-2014, 10:37 AM
Franz Beckenbauer could never be called "lazy", but he had that ability to appear to simply stroll through football matches never even breaking sweat, and making the game seem so easy.

Check out "Der Kaiser's" haul of medals and honours in the game. One of the greats of world football.

DH1875
19-10-2014, 01:27 PM
Carlos Valderrama. Great player though.

heretoday
19-10-2014, 04:04 PM
John Blackley used to stroll about at the back Beckenbauer-style and against most opposition he got away with it. Sometimes he got caught however and his speed and girth were slow to recover!

HoboHarry
19-10-2014, 04:13 PM
Aye and none of you have seen Ally McLeod play - who was white fat and lgenuinely lazy. But still found time to score 99 goals from midfield (without moving a muscle).

However it is a horrible and lazy stereotype to assume black or north african players are lazy.
I saw him play many times and he is still one of my favourite ever players. My avatar was chosen for a good reason.....

heretoday
19-10-2014, 04:30 PM
McLeod was one of those players who put bums on seats by his sheer ability. There were a few guys like that in those days. I would mention Andy Ritchie of Morton and of course Jim Baxter.

anon1875
19-10-2014, 05:37 PM
Depends on what defensive duties the manager sets the players when we don't have the ball. If we play with one up front they may well be told to take up a good position, especially if we're going to play on the break. Fans see this as lazy but in reality it's just football.

lord bunberry
19-10-2014, 06:17 PM
Andy Watson was really lazy

Scouse Hibee
19-10-2014, 07:01 PM
Chris Waddle
Darren Anderton

judas
19-10-2014, 07:05 PM
I just don't think that's true at all and is, dare I say it, political correctness gone mad :wink:

As stated on the main thread, Berbatov is the ultimate lazy ******* and he wasn't black the last time I checked. Nor was Riordan.

I just checked google images. I can confirm tha Riordan is still NOT, I repeat NOT black. :agree:

Berbatov, certainly has a different look, but again he is not black. :agree:

eastterrace
19-10-2014, 07:20 PM
Andy Watson was really lazy

naw he was just pish.

GRANTON_HIBS
19-10-2014, 10:03 PM
Ally McLeod and Steve Archibald, 2 of our most talented players who didnt believe in wasting their time and energy chasing the ball, their contribution when on the ball was immense.

Speedy
20-10-2014, 07:55 AM
Bizarre is right. Tevez is one of the most ferocious hard workers in world football.

You'll never prove anything one way or another.

It might be because he didn't fancy playing for 6 months, although that's not the same thing.

gillie
20-10-2014, 08:56 AM
Carlos Valderrama. Great player though.

Great at maths too

WeeRussell
20-10-2014, 11:44 AM
Marouane Fellaine is a lazy, useless, heartless, dirty, bushy-haired w*nker.

hibsbollah
20-10-2014, 12:55 PM
It might be because he didn't fancy playing for 6 months, although that's not the same thing.

Thats true, id forgotten about that. Once he's on the pitch its a different matter though. Unbelievable desire.

truehibernian
20-10-2014, 01:11 PM
An ex St Mirren Aberdeen player called Frank McDougall - quite a bizarre player yet utterly prolific. Not much movement, not much pace, bizarrely looked unfit and overweight all the time but wasn't (maybe the 80's shorts :greengrin....he was in fact quite slim but somehow looked like he enjoyed a pie or three).........but what a finisher and talk about a player who was right place right time. Even his goal celebrations bordered on lazy !

Bostonhibby
20-10-2014, 01:20 PM
I saw him play many times and he is still one of my favourite ever players. My avatar was chosen for a good reason.....

Yep, great natural footballer, also a winner. Just never bothered running about much because he could always put the ball where he wanted it to be so why bother running about? Everyone else in the team knew what he could do so they gave him the ball a lot. Outstanding Hibs player of that time and one that people would pay to watch - scored some great free kicks.

Hibrandenburg
21-10-2014, 06:57 AM
Yep, great natural footballer, also a winner. Just never bothered running about much because he could always put the ball where he wanted it to be so why bother running about? Everyone else in the team knew what he could do so they gave him the ball a lot. Outstanding Hibs player of that time and one that people would pay to watch - scored some great free kicks.

One of the reasons he didn't get on with George Best. Handbags at five. My first real Hibby Hero of man crush proportions. If you watched him you'd think he had a built-in navigation system because his head was always down on the ball but he sure as hell knew where the goal was.

CRAZYHIBBY
21-10-2014, 08:02 AM
Tony rougier

Saint Hibee
21-10-2014, 10:08 AM
And the winner is - Matt Le Tissier. But what a player.

This still brings tears to my eyes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVEcbvrxHQ0

A midfielder with 164 goals from 461 appearances - and that fool Lawrenson still called him lazy!

Hibernia&Alba
21-10-2014, 02:57 PM
This still brings tears to my eyes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVEcbvrxHQ0

A midfielder with 164 goals from 461 appearances - and that fool Lawrenson still called him lazy!

Very few players can have such a collection of great goals in their career. As a natural talent he was right up there, though he didn't really do running about :-D

(((Fergus)))
21-10-2014, 04:20 PM
Ozil is accused by many as being lazy.

Decent & recent article on the subject of Ozil and his apparent laziness: http://www.fourfourtwo.com/features/ozil-ronaldo-and-footballs-distrust-introverts

Wull
21-10-2014, 09:17 PM
The king of supposed laziness was undoubtedly the brilliant Ally Mcleod. The guy was a legend in my eyes but a waste of a jersey according to others. The guy oozed class, beer belly or not!

Pure class, I used to be very disappointed if he was not in the team, great to watch, always something special:thumbsup:

surreyhibbie
21-10-2014, 09:33 PM
The king of supposed laziness was undoubtedly the brilliant Ally Mcleod. The guy was a legend in my eyes but a waste of a jersey according to others. The guy oozed class, beer belly or not!

I agree 100%

Brilliant player but many people around me called him lazy cos he expected every ball to be played right to his feet, wouldn't run for it.

But when he got the ball, it was a joy to watch. :agree:

superfurryhibby
21-10-2014, 09:48 PM
An ex St Mirren Aberdeen player called Frank McDougall - quite a bizarre player yet utterly prolific. Not much movement, not much pace, bizarrely looked unfit and overweight all the time but wasn't (maybe the 80's shorts :greengrin....he was in fact quite slim but somehow looked like he enjoyed a pie or three).........but what a finisher and talk about a player who was right place right time. Even his goal celebrations bordered on lazy !

Baw faced, pie stealing bassa, knew where the goals were.

I'll go with Ally McLeod. Talented but lazy was his forte. Clearly no athlete, yet photos from his St Mirren days verify that Ally was once actually a skinny bloke. Must have had an "interesting" lifestyle whilst at Hibs. There was nae closing down or chasing lost causes for him, just a withering stare at any player who misplaced a pass, which would have been quite often in his final few seasons at Hibs

Mibbes Aye
28-10-2014, 04:11 PM
Baw faced, pie stealing bassa, knew where the goals were.

I'll go with Ally McLeod. Talented but lazy was his forte. Clearly no athlete, yet photos from his St Mirren days verify that Ally was once actually a skinny bloke. Must have had an "interesting" lifestyle whilst at Hibs. There was nae closing down or chasing lost causes for him, just a withering stare at any player who misplaced a pass, which would have been quite often in his final few seasons at Hibs

:greengrin

More of that is the way forward. A critical look from someone who knows what they want to do with the ball :agree:

Constructive criticism and peer pressure, lot to be said for it.