Pep on tiki-taka

[Dan Sarf]

Pep Guardiola: "I loathe all that passing for the sake of it, all that tiki-taka. It's so much rubbish and has no purpose. You have to pass the ball with a clear intention, with the aim of making it into the opposition's goal. It's not about passing for the sake of it."

"Don't believe what people say. Barça didn't do tiki-taka! It's completely made up! Don't believe a word of it! In all team sports, the secret is to overload one side of the pitch so that the opponent must tilt its own defence to cope. You overload on one side and draw them in so that they leave the other side weak.
"And when we've done all that, we attack and score from the other side. That's why you have to pass the ball, but only if you're doing it with a clear intention. It's only to overload the opponent, to draw them in and then to hit them with the sucker punch. That's what our game needs to be. Nothing to do with tiki-taka."

Says it all, really. :aok:

[frazeHFC]

His Barca team was simply brilliant to watch. When they were at their best they were near unplayable. I think it will be a long time before I see a team as good as the Barca of 09-11 tbh.

[AndyM_1875]

His Barca team was simply brilliant to watch. When they were at their best they were near unplayable. I think it will be a long time before I see a team as good as the Barca of 09-11 tbh.

Barca of 4 years ago were quite simply the greatest team ever to have played the game. Nothing will change my mind on that.

Pep is right though, they didn't pass the ball for the sake of it. It was all about inflicting crushing levels of pressure on opponents who end up chasing shadows, exhausted and demoralized and invariably cracked.
His Bayern team play similarly.

[GreenCastle]

Agreed - when they beat Madrid 5v0 - 29 /11/2010 (game on youtube) was one of the best team displays I've ever seen.

[jacomo]

Barca of 4 years ago were quite simply the greatest team ever to have played the game. Nothing will change my mind on that.

Pep is right though, they didn't pass the ball for the sake of it. It was all about inflicting crushing levels of pressure on opponents who end up chasing shadows, exhausted and demoralized and invariably cracked.
His Bayern team play similarly.

Spain too, at their peak. The flip side was the relentless pressing of the opponent until they lost possession.

Also, sometimes they DID pass the ball for the sake of it, and nothing wrong with that if you retain possession. The opponent can't score a goal without the ball.

Why is he keen to disown tiki taka? He is credited with helping to define a footballing philosophy - not many coaches ever achieve that! Pep clearly knows his onions but the guy comes across as a bit of a radge.

[NadeAteMyLunch!]

Clearly Pep has never watched us tika-taka our way through Cowdenbeath at home. Would the 2010 Barca have scored two late goals to win such a game? Guess we will never know

[Eyrie]

Spain too, at their peak. The flip side was the relentless pressing of the opponent until they lost possession.

Also, sometimes they DID pass the ball for the sake of it, and nothing wrong with that if you retain possession. The opponent can't score a goal without the ball.

Why is he keen to disown tiki taka? He is credited with helping to define a footballing philosophy - not many coaches ever achieve that! Pep clearly knows his onions but the guy comes across as a bit of a radge.

I was more impressed by the pressing than by the tika-taka. Despite Guardiola's claim, there was too much possession for the sake of it and not enough pace or penetration. At times it was almost as bad as hoofball.

[jacomo]

I was more impressed by the pressing than by the tika-taka. Despite Guardiola's claim, there was too much possession for the sake of it and not enough pace or penetration. At times it was almost as bad as hoofball.

Yep, that's right... Barcelona 2008-2012, 14 trophies in 4 years, including a treble and a sextuple in consecutive seasons, thumping wins against high calibre opponents throughout, and then lending most of the team to Spain to win consecutive Euro championships with a World Cup inbetween for the first time... 'almost as bad as hoofball'. :crazy:

The fact that other teams eventually figured out a way to frustrate the system - an inevitability that has happened to every great footballing side that hasn't already declined all by itself - hardly invalidates the achievements.

[Ozyhibby]

I was more impressed by the pressing than by the tika-taka. Despite Guardiola's claim, there was too much possession for the sake of it and not enough pace or penetration. At times it was almost as bad as hoofball.

They scored an awful lot of goals for a team with no penetration.

[hibbysam]

I was more impressed by the pressing than by the tika-taka. Despite Guardiola's claim, there was too much possession for the sake of it and not enough pace or penetration. At times it was almost as bad as hoofball.

Holy sugar I've seen it all now! A team that contained arguably the greatest player ever, the best centre midfield pairing in my lifetime, two full backs that would have walked into any team in the world, a centre half that whatever he lacked in height he made up for in commitment and aggression! And then phenomenal players that blew away every side in the world! 2 champions leagues in 3 years... They won numerous leagues and cups and won the world club cup twice! They also sent half the team away to win three major international trophies in a row! But aye nearly as bad as hoofball that!

[esjorto]

Hampden 1960. European Cup Final.
Real Madrid 7 Eintracht Frankfurt 3
Best I saw by a long way. Apologies for being old enough to have been there:greengrin

[calumhibee1]

Hampden 1960. European Cup Final.
Real Madrid 7 Eintracht Frankfurt 3
Best I saw by a long way. Apologies for being old enough to have been there:greengrin

Barca of 2 years ago would pump Real Madrid of 1960 of that I have no doubt. People maybe think football isn't as enjoyable to watch nowadays, that may well be the case. But tactically, technically and more so physically, football, along with every other sport in the world, has hugely improved in 55 years. :agree:

[McKenzie]

I was more impressed by the pressing than by the tika-taka. Despite Guardiola's claim, there was too much possession for the sake of it and not enough pace or penetration. At times it was almost as bad as hoofball.

You taken some time out from gardening Terry? How's things? His philosophy has changed the whole dynamic of football and the direction it moves in. As bad as hoofball? Don't make me laugh

[since90plustwo]

I think the ''almost as bad as hoofball'' shout was intended as dull to watch at times rather than slating the style, which i tend to agree with. At times, especialy towards the end of peps reign, they were all pass and not enough end product, look at the game at celtic park for example. 75% possession and 1 goal. But what a team they were when they were at their peak, scary

[Craig_HFC]

Barca of 2 years ago would pump Real Madrid of 1960 of that I have no doubt. People maybe think football isn't as enjoyable to watch nowadays, that may well be the case. But tactically, technically and more so physically, football, along with every other sport in the world, has hugely improved in 55 years. :agree:

Definitely.

Considering a few of that Madrid side are deid now and the rest about 80 years old.

:na na:

[Dan Sarf]

Barca of 2 years ago would pump Real Madrid of 1960 of that I have no doubt. People maybe think football isn't as enjoyable to watch nowadays, that may well be the case. But tactically, technically and more so physically, football, along with every other sport in the world, has hugely improved in 55 years. :agree:

Tactics have changed, yes. But hugely improved? Hugely ruined, more like.

Although there are still wonderfully attacking teams, so much of the magic of the game has been lost thanks to one forward up, parking the bus, etc. We can never go back, obviously, but if you ever watched a five man forward line all surge forward together (in a way that would be suicidal today) then you would never say that modern tactics have improved the game. They've just changed it. For the worse in my nostalgic opinion.

Off for a wee lie down now.

[calumhibee1]

Tactics have changed, yes. But hugely improved? Hugely ruined, more like.

Although there are still wonderfully attacking teams, so much of the magic of the game has been lost thanks to one forward up, parking the bus, etc. We can never go back, obviously, but if you ever watched a five man forward line all surge forward together (in a way that would be suicidal today) then you would never say that modern tactics have improved the game. They've just changed it. For the worse in my nostalgic opinion.

Off for a wee lie down now.

I did say that as a spectacle (or something along those lines :greengrin )that it's arguably not as good to watch. But tactically teams nowadays would be too difficult for these teams to break down. Although how much of that would be to do with the higher standard of player nowadays I don't know.

[Dan Sarf]

I did say that as a spectacle (or something along those lines :greengrin )that it's arguably not as good to watch. But tactically teams nowadays would be too difficult for these teams to break down. Although how much of that would be to do with the higher standard of player nowadays I don't know.

Agreed.


Mind you, Gordon Smith could have shown that Messi a trick or two... :flag:

[Eyrie]

I think the ''almost as bad as hoofball'' shout was intended as dull to watch at times rather than slating the style, which i tend to agree with. At times, especialy towards the end of peps reign, they were all pass and not enough end product, look at the game at celtic park for example. 75% possession and 1 goal. But what a team they were when they were at their peak, scary

Thank you - at least someone noticed that the "hoofball" comment was about the entertainment value throughout the game rather than the trophies won at the final whistle.

[southsider]

Agreed.


Mind you, Gordon Smith could have shown that Messi a trick or two... :flag:
Barca tried to buy Joe Baker after the 4-4 game at Camp Nou. When we knocked Barca out of the Fairs Cup ( one city- one team ) they were also in the European Cup as Spanish Champions and had just become the very first team to knock Real Madrid in that trophy. But back on track their is plenty land out at East Mains for a Hibernian like Masia.

[Mibbes Aye]

I was more impressed by the pressing than by the tika-taka. Despite Guardiola's claim, there was too much possession for the sake of it and not enough pace or penetration. At times it was almost as bad as hoofball.

Ooof. You've taken a fair bit of stick for that last sentence but I think some of it was unfair :greengrin

I'm a purist. If I was being honest I would rather my team managed the possession and kept the ball all game in a nil-nil than won by a long ball that produced a goal. Not because I don't want to win, but simply because if you commit your team to playing good football then you stick with that, and eventually you will win more than you draw and lose, by playing football properly.

You accept a loss if you played okay, even if you could have got a goal playing direct and you relish the interplay that you get from stressing the 'pass and move' and seeing that work.

At pro senior level it's different, the pressures are different and unfortunately it feels like few coaches are willing to risk playing a positive, possession-based game.

I guess it's why we lose the likes of Ian Cathro to our game.