Five defenders against Dumbarton!

[Brooster]

Three central defenders, two full back masquerading as wing backs and two defensive midfielders in Craig and Robertson. McGeoch was the only midfielder driving forward, in fact him and Cummings were the only two players to trouble Dumbarton all day. Stubbsy knows a bit more about the game than me but surely we should be playing with wingers and attacking midfielders at home against Dumbarton. Kennedy, Stanton, Harris and Allan for example. No wonder we can't break part teams down at home.

[Elephant Stone]

The wing backs aren't really defenders, Stevenson and Gray are forward loads, Gray has even scored in open play. We've found it hard to break teams down cause most of them are playing two lines of four deep in their own half, that's difficult to break down no matter who you are or who you're playing against.

[truehibernian]

Come on brooster, when you have Colin Nish leading the forward line it would be wrong to go 'gung ho' :faf:

Joking aside mate for me it's in midfield where we lose games, not at the back - I can see why he has played three central defenders at the back because we were losing silly goals and many from set pieces, so height and strength there is quite good to have.

Craig and Robertson, or Slow and Slower as they are soon to be renamed - that for me is where we are failing in games. Telegraphed passing, 'safe' passing along the lines, square, one paced........no dynamic play in there until McGeouch and Kennedy come on (or Stanton).

[Brooster]

Hearts break down defensive teams every week with ease. We need our attacking players in the team especially against Dumbarton at home.

[hibee-boys]

It's the pedestrian centre of midfield that's been the issue, Dylan aside, the lack of creativity from the middle of the park is frightening. That's why we're struggling against teams who sit in, they know the ball is getting played out wide so they double up against the wing backs and prevent quick balls into the box. I actually think that Gray and Stevenson have done well, probably had more assists than our out and out wingers and certainly more than midfield.

[Centre Hawf]

Im a fan of the formation. But like others have said its the midfield letting us down. Id cometely drop Craig and Robbo for Stanton and Allan. We need confident forward thinking players.

[we are hibs]

We are unbelievably slow and uncreative in the middle. Think our midfield 3 should be Stanton,mcgeouch and Allan. 3 very creative players who will unlock defences in this league.

[Stevie Reid]

Misleading thread title. Stevenson and Gray bomb on constantly, in fact several times on Saturday Gray ran beyond the strikers. If you want to look at them as defenders, it was the same five defenders that played their part in a superb attacking performance at Ibrox.

[PatHead]

Hearts break down defensive teams every week with ease. We need our attacking players in the team especially against Dumbarton at home.

Hearts had 1 shot on target on Saturday, unfortunately it went in.

Not exactly breaking down defences with ease all the time.

[Brooster]

The title is not misleading at all. We had 5 defenders in the starting 11 on Saturday, 2 of them were asked to play as wing backs. Gray got a few crosses in whilst Stevenson huffed and puffed again. Kennedy on one of the flanks is the least we can expect against a team of part timers at home. We need to go at teams more and that starting 11 is not very capable of doing so.

[Brooster]

Hearts had 1 shot on target on Saturday, unfortunately it went in.

Not exactly breaking down defences with ease all the time.

Maybe not with ease on this occasion but they did break them down. They are generally murdering the teams we are struggling against.

[percy veer]

Hearts had 1 shot on target on Saturday, unfortunately it went in.

Not exactly breaking down defences with ease all the time.


rather have a 100% conversion rate than the 20 odd poor shots that equate to hee haw.

[Stevie Reid]

The title is not misleading at all. We had 5 defenders in the starting 11 on Saturday, 2 of them were asked to play as wing backs. Gray got a few crosses in whilst Stevenson huffed and puffed again. Kennedy on one of the flanks is the least we can expect against a team of part timers at home. We need to go at teams more and that starting 11 is not very capable of doing so.

It is misleading as it implies that we were set up defensively, when we were not - I realise that you are making an additional point about personnel in the wing back areas not being correct, and I myself would have quite liked to have seen Kennedy started wide against Raith when Gray was injured.

However, the last time before Saturday that Stevenson and Gray both played wing back was for 45 minutes at Ibrox, when Stevenson got two assists and Gray scored. Prior to that Stevenson got an assist v Ross County also.

[The_Horde]

It's the pedestrian centre of midfield that's been the issue, Dylan aside, the lack of creativity from the middle of the park is frightening. That's why we're struggling against teams who sit in, they know the ball is getting played out wide so they double up against the wing backs and prevent quick balls into the box. I actually think that Gray and Stevenson have done well, probably had more assists than our out and out wingers and certainly more than midfield.

The movement of the strikers isn't helping either. None of them want to stretch a defence, run the channels or play on the last defender.

[greenlex]

;4197129']The movement of the strikers isn't helping either. None of them want to stretch a defence, run the channels or play on the last defender.

Ironically James Collins would have done a job. Bloody frustrating so it is.

[Billy Whizz]

Three central defenders, two full back masquerading as wing backs and two defensive midfielders in Craig and Robertson. McGeoch was the only midfielder driving forward, in fact him and Cummings were the only two players to trouble Dumbarton all day. Stubbsy knows a bit more about the game than me but surely we should be playing with wingers and attacking midfielders at home against Dumbarton. Kennedy, Stanton, Harris and Allan for example. No wonder we can't break part teams down at home.

When you looked at the team on Saturday, there was a real lack of goals across the team apart from Malonga and Cumnings. Tend to agree, although I like Gray and Lewis, they are more defenders than forwards.
Although it's up for debate, players like Stanton and Handling are more likely to get the odd goal or two, than some others. Be interested to see what Stubbs does for Saturday

[LaMotta]

Ironically James Collins would have done a job. Bloody frustrating so it is.

:shocked:

[erin go bragh]

Three central defenders, two full back masquerading as wing backs and two defensive midfielders in Craig and Robertson. McGeoch was the only midfielder driving forward, in fact him and Cummings were the only two players to trouble Dumbarton all day. Stubbsy knows a bit more about the game than me but surely we should be playing with wingers and attacking midfielders at home against Dumbarton. Kennedy, Stanton, Harris and Allan for example. No wonder we can't break part teams down at home.

Yes . Nail on head !

Ggtth

[erin go bragh]

It is misleading as it implies that we were set up defensively, when we were not - I realise that you are making an additional point about personnel in the wing back areas not being correct, and I myself would have quite liked to have seen Kennedy started wide against Raith when Gray was injured.

However, the last time before Saturday that Stevenson and Gray both played wing back was for 45 minutes at Ibrox, when Stevenson got two assists and Gray scored. Prior to that Stevenson got an assist v Ross County also.
Because County and The Rangers were attacking us . When teams get 10 players behind the ball , were donald ducked with Craig and Robertson in the team . Imo Kennedy on one wing with either Harris or Sinclair on the other . Stanton in the centre with Allan , maybe play Stevenson in front of the back 3 or Gray could play there . 2 strikers up top .

Ggtth

[Eyrie]

Given that Gray and Stevenson offer an attacking threat as wing backs, why not play them as full backs who overlap their wingers and provide an additional threat rather than our only one?

Do we really need three centre halves against one striker when the opposition are defending in depth anyway?

[Albion Hibs]

If we are ever going to progress as a club we have to get rid of this over inflated / entitled to attitude. We are rank, we have been for years. We played a club that we scraped a win against in the cup, that are a point behind us in the table and finished in the middle of this league last year.

We seem to have this "we should be" doing this that in the next thing attitude to teams we play, we wont leave this league until we get rid of this concept, regardless of formations.

[TheFamous1875]

Most teams are going to sit deep against us, so we need to attack them with width and pace to stretch their defensive and defensive midfield banks. It's as simple as that. To get the best out of our squad and give ourselves the best chance against these types of oppositions we should be going 4-3-3. Craig and Robertson aren't worth a sook without someone in the midfield to protect them (their best form of their careers were under the protection and guidance of duos Gomis & Buaben and Davidson & Morris) and they have zero confidence. Get them on the bench. Allan and McGeouch are two young, positive and confident players - get them in with Stevenson in front of the back four. He'll give them the security needed to get forward and create. This is literally the biggest trick we're missing in utilising our squad. Stevenson has the ball control, the engine and the tackling ability to play this role to great effect. It would also give licence to Gray and Booth to get forward and support the attacks.

I suspect that a lack of confidence in Booth's defensive capabilities is what's stopping Stubbs from taking this option. If that's the case, Hanlon and (I suspect) Fontaine are more than capable of playing left-back but perhaps don't have the forward prowess that Stevenson and Booth offer. There's also the doubtful possibility that Stubbs is unaware of Stevenson's past experience as a central midfielder, but I think a DVD of the League Cup Final '07 should sort that.

Either way, the teams across this league, with the obvious exceptions, aren't awffy blessed with much resembling quality, so I don't see the point in taking the conservative approach like we would rightly do against quality that can seriously hurt us such as Aberdeen, Dundee Utd or Celtic.

We need a holding midfielder of as good quality as Gray, Allan or McGeouch to come into the squad in the next window. That's a fact. But for now, we need to take the initiative and play with a far more direct and attacking style. We have Kennedy, Harris, Cummings, Stanton and Handling who can all contribute in the final third. Kennedy and Harris (and possibly Cummings) playing up top as out and out wingers would give them licence to fright and exhaust the defenders of this league.

We need to play this league for what it is, not what we want it to be. We're not getting anywhere with two 'experienced' but completely invisible midfielders who don't contribute a jot in the centre of the pitch. 5 at the back at home in the division below? Risible. The 4-3-3 with Stevenson holding behind Allan and McGeouch should batter teams. I'd love to see us just try it once at home and see how it goes.

Oxley.

Gray. Forster. Hanlon. Booth.

McG. Louie. Allan.

And any array of fast, positive attackers we have at our disposal.

[jacomo]

:shocked:

Unbelievable. We got rid of the one player who would make this 3-5-2 thing come alive!

:wink:

[Kato]

If we are ever going to progress as a club we have to get rid of this over inflated / entitled to attitude. We are rank, we have been for years. We played a club that we scraped a win against in the cup, that are a point behind us in the table and finished in the middle of this league last year.

We seem to have this "we should be" doing this that in the next thing attitude to teams we play, we wont leave this league until we get rid of this concept, regardless of formations.


Totally agree. The "we should be" argument allows posters to ignore the reality of where Hibs are and doesn't help get us into the position where "could be". Fallig back on that line shows someone losing the argument.

[IanM]

We could probably do with 5 defenders with big Fontaine likely to miss the Livi game..

[J-C]

The title is not misleading at all. We had 5 defenders in the starting 11 on Saturday, 2 of them were asked to play as wing backs. Gray got a few crosses in whilst Stevenson huffed and puffed again. Kennedy on one of the flanks is the least we can expect against a team of part timers at home. We need to go at teams more and that starting 11 is not very capable of doing so.


You have to be kidding, Stevenson was our best player in the 1st half, he had to revert back to a FB when Fontaine went of and Kennedy came on to play down the left wing, I seriously wonder hat some people are watching at games, because they're certainly not watching the football.

[J-C]

Given that Gray and Stevenson offer an attacking threat as wing backs, why not play them as full backs who overlap their wingers and provide an additional threat rather than our only one?

Do we really need three centre halves against one striker when the opposition are defending in depth anyway?

That would mean playing a DM which we don't have.

[ahibby]

Hearts break down defensive teams every week with ease. We need our attacking players in the team especially against Dumbarton at home.

Like who? The problem is we don't have players who are sharp enough and experienced enough to be box players. The opposition might have one line of five and another of four in their own half but as soon as our wingers are ready to cross they have five and four in their box. Unless we commit nine players in the box we are always outnumbered. Attacking teams need a bit of luck in this situation. DM is laid back for a box player in a packed box and the others are either inexperienced or past it. Dumbarton have one of the biggest/tallest sides in the league and are the only team to have taken a point from Hearts so far. Hardly surprising they took a point from Hibs but Hibs should have had a goal had the officials had the same view as those of us in the West Stand, Hibs would have won the game at least 1-0. We need to sort out our second half performance at home thought because it is becoming consistently poorer than our first half.

[LaMotta]

Unbelievable. We got rid of the one player who would make this 3-5-2 thing come alive!

:wink:

:tee hee:

[Brooster]

You have to be kidding, Stevenson was our best player in the 1st half, he had to revert back to a FB when Fontaine went of and Kennedy came on to play down the left wing, I seriously wonder hat some people are watching at games, because they're certainly not watching the football.

McGeoch was our best player by a mile. Stevenson was better than McGeoch? Is that what you are seriously suggesting?

[ancient hibee]

Like who? The problem is we don't have players who are sharp enough and experienced enough to be box players. The opposition might have one line of five and another of four in their own half but as soon as our wingers are ready to cross they have five and four in their box. Unless we commit nine players in the box we are always outnumbered. Attacking teams need a bit of luck in this situation. DM is laid back for a box player in a packed box and the others are either inexperienced or past it. Dumbarton have one of the biggest/tallest sides in the league and are the only team to have taken a point from Hearts so far. Hardly surprising they took a point from Hibs but Hibs should have had a goal had the officials had the same view as those of us in the West Stand, Hibs would have won the game at least 1-0. We need to sort out our second half performance at home thought because it is becoming consistently poorer than our first half.


Of course the answer to a crowded box is the hard low driven cross through the 6 yard box-plenty people to deflect off.Our idea of a cross is actually a lob to the penalty spot.

[J-C]

McGeoch was our best player by a mile. Stevenson was better than McGeoch? Is that what you are seriously suggesting?


In the 1st half Stevenson was outstanding playing as an attacking WB, when the change came about, he had to revert back to being a normal FB, Dylan was very good for the whole match, that's what I'm saying but then again why not ignore the words in my post where I said best player in the 1st half and choose to pick on something I didn't actually say. :confused:

[Brooster]

In the 1st half Stevenson was outstanding playing as an attacking WB, when the change came about, he had to revert back to being a normal FB, Dylan was very good for the whole match, that's what I'm saying but then again why not ignore the words in my post where I said best player in the 1st half and choose to pick on something I didn't actually say. :confused:

Opinions eh. I thought Stevenson was poor.

[Eyrie]

That would mean playing a DM which we don't have.
Then play Booth at LB and use Stevenson as DM - he has the discipline and work rate to do well there, whilst Booth's defensive weakness won't be an issue in the games where we will be on the attack for most of the match.

[J-C]

Then play Booth at LB and use Stevenson as DM - he has the discipline and work rate to do well there, whilst Booth's defensive weakness won't be an issue in the games where we will be on the attack for most of the match.

I have mentioned this on quite a few threads now, Lewis is a natural midfielder and as you say he has the discipline and work rate to be a decent DM.

[Danderhall Hibs]

I have mentioned this on quite a few threads now, Lewis is a natural midfielder and as you say he has the discipline and work rate to be a decent DM.

He does but do you think his lack of a right foot would cause him problems when playing centrally?

[J-C]

He does but do you think his lack of a right foot would cause him problems when playing centrally?

Don't know about that but t didn't do Thomson any harm did it, also he put in a cracking cross last week with his right when Gray went off, if it was just to play the simple pass, then I'm sure he'll do.

[Eyrie]

I have mentioned this on quite a few threads now, Lewis is a natural midfielder and as you say he has the discipline and work rate to be a decent DM.
I knew it was too good an idea to be my own!


He does but do you think his lack of a right foot would cause him problems when playing centrally?
Would the lack of a left foot hinder a right sided player?

Most players prefer their more natural foot, but there is no reason why they shouldn't be competent with their other foot given that they are full time professionals who can work on improving it. I'm sure many of the amateur players on here will make a point of practicing with both feet - I did and I was barely good enough to get a kick around with my mates.