PDA

View Full Version : Artificial Pitches (Unfair Advantage) Comments Please



Wellbankhibby
03-10-2014, 08:31 PM
Just wondered what our thoughts were regards artificial pitches. My own opinion is that this gives all teams who play on them reglarly an unfare advantage. It is typical of the SFA that a few years ago clubs could not get promotion unless they had all seater stadium and yet they turn a blind eye to all those teams who have dug up their grounds and replaced the Grass which is what football should be played on. :confused:

BOB MARLEYS DUG
03-10-2014, 08:35 PM
I see them as a poor excuse for getting beat. I honestly don't mind them.

bob12345
03-10-2014, 08:38 PM
Just wondered what our thoughts were regards artificial pitches. My own opinion is that this gives all teams who play on them reglarly an unfare advantage. It is typical of the SFA that a few years ago clubs could not get promotion unless they had all seater stadium and yet they turn a blind eye to all those teams who have dug up their grounds and replaced the Grass which is what football should be played on. :confused:

There is no doubting that a perfect condition grass pitch trumps any artificial surface. However, on the whole in Scotland, those pitches are few and far between.

The financial and community benefits of an artificial pitch massively outweigh the benefits of an average grass pitch. And while Scottish football clubs are in such financial turmoil, I'd recommend every team looks into the possibility of going artificial.

Wellbankhibby
03-10-2014, 08:39 PM
I see them as a poor excuse for getting beat. I honestly don't mind them. Appreciate your comment but as stated Football should be played on grass. Just look at Utd tonight Killie played them off the park. You cant tell me that would happen very often on grass.

Baldy Foghorn
03-10-2014, 08:40 PM
I always wince at the bad injury the guy got at Dunfermline, when he streaked and did a Klinnsman dive.....Ouch:greengrin

blackpoolhibs
03-10-2014, 08:43 PM
I dont like them, the game seems sterile on that surface in my opinion. Its a different game and until such times as they can make it much more like a good grass surface then its a no from me.

I also think it does favour the teams who play on it all the time.

Wellbankhibby
03-10-2014, 08:47 PM
There is no doubting that a perfect condition grass pitch trumps any artificial surface. However, on the whole in Scotland, those pitches are few and far between.

The financial and community benefits of an artificial pitch massively outweigh the benefits of an average grass pitch. And while Scottish football clubs are in such financial turmoil, I'd recommend every team looks into the possibility of going artificial. I am somewhat surprised that the first two comments from my fellow Hibees seem to be in favour of artificial pitches. I do understand the economics of these playing surfaces but am I right in saying teams would not be allowed to play on these surfaces in European matches. I honestly thought it would be a very High percentage against these pitches. :confused:

Wellbankhibby
03-10-2014, 08:48 PM
I dont like them, the game seems sterile on that surface in my opinion. Its a different game and until such times as they can make it much more like a good grass surface then its a no from me.

I also think it does favour the teams who play on it all the time. My sentiments as well 100%

Brooster
03-10-2014, 08:51 PM
To turn your argument around......will QoS, Alloa and Killie etc be at a dissadvantage when they play on grass?

Pretty Boy
03-10-2014, 08:54 PM
The Arsenal surface seems the happy medium.

A good grass pitch is the best option obviously but in this country that's a rare luxury. Artificial parks are brilliant for training but they are not a match day surface imo.

Cool_Hand_Luke
03-10-2014, 09:00 PM
I am somewhat surprised that the first two comments from my fellow Hibees seem to be in favour of artificial pitches. I do understand the economics of these playing surfaces but am I right in saying teams would not be allowed to play on these surfaces in European matches. I honestly thought it would be a very High percentage against these pitches. :confused:

Did Celtic not play a Russian team on an artificial pitch recently?
(not this season...but a previous season)

madabouthibs
03-10-2014, 09:05 PM
I'm playing at the Falkirk stadium on Sunday, I'll let you know my thoughts. :wink:

lord bunberry
03-10-2014, 09:05 PM
I think they're the future for Scottish teams, the technology might not be there right now, or in the case of hybrid pitches affordable. Anyone who has seen the pitch at Easter Road the last few seasons must realise that grass pitches aren't going to be the answer

Edit we could also consider summer football as an answer

bob12345
03-10-2014, 09:06 PM
I am somewhat surprised that the first two comments from my fellow Hibees seem to be in favour of artificial pitches. I do understand the economics of these playing surfaces but am I right in saying teams would not be allowed to play on these surfaces in European matches. I honestly thought it would be a very High percentage against these pitches. :confused:

Pretty sure the Lushniki in Moscow has hosted plenty of European top level ties? Plenty of other lower profile ones being utilised in the Europa League.

greenlex
03-10-2014, 09:08 PM
Too many injuries sustained in them fir my liking. How did El Al get injured? Was it a tackle?

Wellbankhibby
03-10-2014, 09:10 PM
To turn your argument around......will QoS, Alloa and Killie etc be at a dissadvantage when they play on grass? They have no argument or grounds to complain about these are clubs who dug up their grass pitches. My opinion is it is extremely unfare on other teams and I really dont know why the powers that run scottish football are allowing this to happen. EVERY team should play on the same surface.

3pm
03-10-2014, 09:17 PM
Hamilton 0, Hibs 2 (artificial)

Hibs 0, Hamilton 2 (grass)

Bishop Hibee
03-10-2014, 09:18 PM
I think they are unfair and more importantly inferior to a well kept grass pitch. First time I saw one with teams from a decent level was the play-off at Hamilton. Some of the bounces were ridiculous. Didn't help Hamilton that game but definitely an advantage overall. I think amateur players' views are coloured by the artificial surfaces they have played on being so much better than the duff council grass pitches. I played on the full sized pitch at Castlebrae a few years ago and it was great but not fit for top leagues.

The_Exile
03-10-2014, 09:19 PM
The Arsenal surface seems the happy medium.

A good grass pitch is the best option obviously but in this country that's a rare luxury. Artificial parks are brilliant for training but they are not a match day surface imo.

Agreed, pity it costs about a million a year to keep :greengrin

Sergey
03-10-2014, 09:23 PM
They have no argument or grounds to complain about these are clubs who dug up their grass pitches. My opinion is it is extremely unfare on other teams and I really dont know why the powers that run scottish football are allowing this to happen. EVERY team should play on the same surface.

Nope - it simply ain't going to happen. Seriously, when has one grass pitch ever been the same as another? It's a fallacy if you think all grass surfaces are the same.

Firstly, as Brooster said, teams that play on 3G surfaces also have to play away matches on grass pitches...so things even themselves out over the season, if you think that artificial pitches are an advantage.

3G surfaces are the way forward, especially in inclement countries where frosts/snow/rain/hail/whatever weather can cause postponements are a factor. Clubs need matches to take place and if it means installing an artificial surface, then so be it.

Even the EPL sides play on synthetic pitches as most of their surfaces are interwoven nylon threads with grass. That barely ticks the 'grass pitch' box...but it looks good on TV and ensures a decent playing surface.

What surface will they be playing on in the Qatar World Cup?

Wellbankhibby
03-10-2014, 09:30 PM
Hamilton 0, Hibs 2 (artificial)

Hibs 0, Hamilton 2 (grass) That makes no difference at all when you take we were up for the game at Hamilton. At ER we went back to hiding and being cowards. Its not the playing surface that resulted in Hamilton beating us. It was our own doing, we were spineless and gutless and a disgrace to the great players who have worn the Hibs jersey with pride.

WellingtonHibby
03-10-2014, 09:33 PM
I think they're the future for Scottish teams, the technology might not be there right now, or in the case of hybrid pitches affordable. Anyone who has seen the pitch at Easter Road the last few seasons must realise that grass pitches aren't going to be the answer

Edit we could also consider summer football as an answer

Over here in Wellington, the majority of pitches are Artificial, and the new ones are brilliant to play in contrast to the muddy bogs and bald pitches I played on in Scotland. I think cost -wise and football wise they have advatages over regular grass. Yes, it would be lovely to pay on an old Trafford quality grass every week, but in reality that's never going to happen in the current Scottish set up
I think the modern breed of artificial pitches are the best answer to a difficult question.

Phil D. Rolls
03-10-2014, 09:34 PM
Nobody complained when we beat Hamilton on an artificial pitch.

blackpoolhibs
03-10-2014, 09:37 PM
Nope - it simply ain't going to happen. Seriously, when has one grass pitch ever been the same as another? It's a fallacy if you think all grass surfaces are the same.

Firstly, as Brooster said, teams that play on 3G surfaces also have to play away matches on grass pitches...so things even themselves out over the season, if you think that artificial pitches are an advantage.

3G surfaces are the way forward, especially in inclement countries where frosts/snow/rain/hail/whatever weather can cause postponements are a factor. Clubs need matches to take place and if it means installing an artificial surface, then so be it.

Even the EPL sides play on synthetic pitches as most of their surfaces are interwoven nylon threads with grass. That barely ticks the 'grass pitch' box...but it looks good on TV and ensures a decent playing surface.

What surface will they be playing on in the Qatar World Cup?

Not really sergey, they are playing on grass one week and at home the next on the plastic. We on the otherhand only play on it periodically.

I have said all along that it is the way forward, but that pitch at Hamilton was a joke, it was not football as i know it. Yet the other week up in Dumfries (see what i did there) :wink: was a much better surface in my opinion, still nothing really like grass but different to the Hamilton one?

DTS
03-10-2014, 09:39 PM
I prefer playing on a good quality 3G pitch than an average grass pitch, playing and training on a artificial pitch does give benefit but it's hard to go from that to grass as you're muscles are conditioned to the artificial grass! I personally have suffered torn ligaments and tissue damage purely from playing on a artificial pitch as my stud got stuck in the pitch

Wellbankhibby
03-10-2014, 09:43 PM
Nope - it simply ain't going to happen. Seriously, when has one grass pitch ever been the same as another? It's a fallacy if you think all grass surfaces are the same.

Firstly, as Brooster said, teams that play on 3G surfaces also have to play away matches on grass pitches...so things even themselves out over the season, if you think that artificial pitches are an advantage.

3G surfaces are the way forward, especially in inclement countries where frosts/snow/rain/hail/whatever weather can cause postponements are a factor. Clubs need matches to take place and if it means installing an artificial surface, then so be it.

Even the EPL sides play on synthetic pitches as most of their surfaces are interwoven nylon threads with grass. That barely ticks the 'grass pitch' box...but it looks good on TV and ensures a decent playing surface.

Although I take your comments on board regards 3G pitches I still find that it is a very unfair advantage. I never said all grass pitches were the same but the fact is that they are GRASS and that is what we have always played football on. You can also say that all artificial pitches are different when you watch the ball bouncing all over the place and players getting bad injuries.

What surface will they be playing on in the Qatar World Cup? Probably be sand

Ronniekirk
03-10-2014, 09:43 PM
Hearts play bothe queen of the South and Alloa away in the next few weeks so will be interesting to see how they get on .i personally don't like them ,but could be a case of thinking the grass is always greener on the other side .

Brightside
03-10-2014, 09:48 PM
Appreciate your comment but as stated Football should be played on grass. Just look at Utd tonight Killie played them off the park. You cant tell me that would happen very often on grass.

Get used to it... grass probably only has a decade or so left. Kids are now learning to play football on astro more than grass and it will become the norm.

Sergey
03-10-2014, 09:50 PM
Not really sergey, they are playing on grass one week and at home the next on the plastic. We on the otherhand only play on it periodically.

I have said all along that it is the way forward, but that pitch at Hamilton was a joke, it was not football as i know it. Yet the other week up in Dumfries (see what i did there) :wink: was a much better surface in my opinion, still nothing really like grass but different to the Hamilton one?

Hibs have a 3G surface at East Mains, so we can't really use that as an excuse for results away from home - but we will, as is our remit to find fault in a poor result.

As a spectator who has seen matches at Harlow and Maidstone, both who use 3G, I've absolutely no qualms whatsoever with what was on offer. Even speaking to the players afterwards, they also had little complaint.

We simply better get used to it.

Brightside
03-10-2014, 09:50 PM
Nope - it simply ain't going to happen. Seriously, when has one grass pitch ever been the same as another? It's a fallacy if you think all grass surfaces are the same.

Firstly, as Brooster said, teams that play on 3G surfaces also have to play away matches on grass pitches...so things even themselves out over the season, if you think that artificial pitches are an advantage.

3G surfaces are the way forward, especially in inclement countries where frosts/snow/rain/hail/whatever weather can cause postponements are a factor. Clubs need matches to take place and if it means installing an artificial surface, then so be it.

Even the EPL sides play on synthetic pitches as most of their surfaces are interwoven nylon threads with grass. That barely ticks the 'grass pitch' box...but it looks good on TV and ensures a decent playing surface.

What surface will they be playing on in the Qatar World Cup?

The Womens World Cup will be played on 3g..... (they are not happy) but it is happening. The interwoven pitches are the way forward once the cost comes down.

Jonnyboy
03-10-2014, 09:52 PM
Don't like them and probably never will

NadeAteMyLunch!
03-10-2014, 09:59 PM
Train on them and play 7's each week on them. That's fine. Really not a fan for 11 v 11 though and defo not in the top leagues.

blackpoolhibs
03-10-2014, 10:09 PM
Hibs have a 3G surface at East Mains, so we can't really use that as an excuse for results away from home - but we will, as is our remit to find fault in a poor result.

As a spectator who has seen matches at Harlow and Maidstone, both who use 3G, I've absolutely no qualms whatsoever with what was on offer. Even speaking to the players afterwards, they also had little complaint.

We simply better get used to it.

I thought it was only a five a side one inside a barn?

Bronson
03-10-2014, 10:10 PM
Terrible for injuries, especially in the knees and back. Shouldn't be allowed at the highest level (i.e CSKA Moscow in the CL) IMO, however in Scottish lower divisions they are practical as they're low maintenance. I wouldn't allow them in the Scottish Prem though, personally.

cocopops1875
04-10-2014, 02:17 AM
Nobody complained when we beat Hamilton on an artificial pitch.

Plenty of folk did mate

Calum68
04-10-2014, 06:49 AM
I thought it was only a five a side one inside a barn?

No, there's also a full size 3G pitch outside at EM

scoopyboy
04-10-2014, 06:54 AM
No, there's also a full size 3G pitch outside at EM

Not arguing but why do we train on Spartans' pitch before we play a competitive game?

Geo_1875
04-10-2014, 06:56 AM
They've got to be better than Motherwell pitch over the last 10 years. I seem to remember many long threads complaining about that one.

Calum68
04-10-2014, 07:42 AM
Not arguing but why do we train on Spartans' pitch before we play a competitive game?

No idea buddy. Only thing I can think of is Spartans 4g or more like the surface of our opponents? Really don't know though.

blackpoolhibs
04-10-2014, 08:16 AM
No, there's also a full size 3G pitch outside at EM

:aok:

Scouse Hibee
04-10-2014, 08:23 AM
They've come a long way since Luton and QPR's in the eighties but I still dislike them, definitely an advantage, footie should be played on grass only.

Brooster
04-10-2014, 08:25 AM
Having played 11s at Spatrans, Peffermill and Easter Road in recent weeks I would say Easter Road is the poorest of the surfaces by quite some way. Albeit at a lower level we had better quality games on the 3g surfaces but at least at Easter Road I could blame the surface if a pass went astray - something you cannot do on 3g.

Tyler Durden
04-10-2014, 09:33 AM
The Arsenal surface seems the happy medium.

A good grass pitch is the best option obviously but in this country that's a rare luxury. Artificial parks are brilliant for training but they are not a match day surface imo.

How does the Arsenal park work, some sort of hybrid?

Deano Mourinho
04-10-2014, 09:44 AM
I'm a big fan when it comes to artificial pitches as long as maintenance is carried out properly. It is definitely the future for Scottish football where the costs of maintaining a grass pitch during winter months is so high and also reduces training costs as teams can train on the pitch

Eyrie
04-10-2014, 09:44 AM
Terrible for injuries, especially in the knees and back. Shouldn't be allowed at the highest level (i.e CSKA Moscow in the CL) IMO, however in Scottish lower divisions they are practical as they're low maintenance. I wouldn't allow them in the Scottish Prem though, personally.

Does anyone know if that is a result of the surface itself, or because the players' bodies are conditioned to playing on grass? In other words, would it have the same effect on someone who had grown up playing on artificial surfaces?

inglisavhibs
04-10-2014, 11:09 AM
I dont like them, the game seems sterile on that surface in my opinion. Its a different game and until such times as they can make it much more like a good grass surface then its a no from me.

I also think it does favour the teams who play on it all the time.

Not sure about any advantage but i personally don't enjoy watching football on artificial surfaces. As you rightly say it's a different game and always appears like a training session! i can understand the use of them for financial reasons but if all football was played on artificial surfaces i would watch a lot less football.

Bishop Hibee
04-10-2014, 11:17 AM
Regarding injuries, I'm sure many NFL teams went back to grass or some Emirates-style hybrid from artificial surfaces due to injuries. No doubt someone on here will enlighten me. Hybrid is the best but prohibitively expensive for Scotttish teams.

Bronson
04-10-2014, 11:26 AM
Does anyone know if that is a result of the surface itself, or because the players' bodies are conditioned to playing on grass? In other words, would it have the same effect on someone who had grown up playing on artificial surfaces?

Definitely not the case, I don't play much football but when I play fives on a 3G pitch I get a really sore back and I don't have any real outstanding back issues normally.

Eyrie
04-10-2014, 11:43 AM
Definitely not the case, I don't play much football but when I play fives on a 3G pitch I get a really sore back and I don't have any real outstanding back issues normally.

Do you, or anyone else, think the effect would be different if you'd played on artificial surfaces from an early age?

BVB Hibs
04-10-2014, 11:56 AM
On the injuries front, as somebody who has played hockey from an early age on astroturf (albeit a hockey astro and not 3G), I can assure anybody reading this that astroturfs in no way generate more injuries than a grass surface. If anything it's less due to how even the surface is. There was a time about 20 years ago when pitches were simply laid on concrete and didn't have any of the cushioning pitches come with today, and that's where the injuries myth comes from. Sure, there's people here who have issues with 3G pitches, but can we really base an argument on the merits of 3G pitches on anecdotal evidence from some amateur football players?

With regards to the 3G in american football, that was mainly to do with blocking/tackling. As there's no give in the pitch (i.e it will hold firm even with huge amounts of force exerted on it) it was very easy to overload the knee when being pushed/tackled, as your foot would essentially be locked in place by the pitch. NFL is still played on a synthetic surface, though the nature of this surface has changed massively over the past few years.

Grass doesn't have long left in football. 3G surfaces are being improved on a daily basis and it's only a matter of time until something is developed that is categorically better than grass. As it stands though, I'd consider a well kept grass pitch superior for football. In Scotland we don't see many of those, so 3G even in it's current form is the best option for the majority of sides here.

ChilliEater
04-10-2014, 12:13 PM
Hearts play bothe queen of the South and Alloa away in the next few weeks so will be interesting to see how they get on .i personally don't like them ,but could be a case of thinking the grass is always greener on the other side .

Don't like them? Personally I can't stand the cheating, blooded turd $&/@;:s :wink:

silverhibee
04-10-2014, 12:49 PM
Not really sergey, they are playing on grass one week and at home the next on the plastic. We on the otherhand only play on it periodically.

I have said all along that it is the way forward, but that pitch at Hamilton was a joke, it was not football as i know it. Yet the other week up in Dumfries (see what i did there) :wink: was a much better surface in my opinion, still nothing really like grass but different to the Hamilton one?

Not forgetting that these players train on these pitches through the week as well, they will no how the ball bounces on it and they are a f***ing nightmare for goalkeepers, the problem just now is that they are not all the same surface, Alloa is probably the worst in this league, but when they play Falkirk they won't be use to they're surface as it will have a different bounce to the one at Alloa, when it is hot weather they become sticky and cold weather the ball slides along the surface, us fans can say what we want about them but ask any pro footballer and it will be grass all the time they want to play on, it's not just the bounce of the ball that is the problem but players also picking up injuries on them as well or just feeling sore for a few days after playing on them.

Not a fan of the astro pitches, hope Hibs never go down this route unless it's the Hybrid pitch that has been laid at Murrayfield and the Emirates stadium.

silverhibee
04-10-2014, 12:53 PM
Hibs have a 3G surface at East Mains, so we can't really use that as an excuse for results away from home - but we will, as is our remit to find fault in a poor result.

As a spectator who has seen matches at Harlow and Maidstone, both who use 3G, I've absolutely no qualms whatsoever with what was on offer. Even speaking to the players afterwards, they also had little complaint.

We simply better get used to it.

And yet when we are playing a team that has a 3G surface we go down to Spartans to train on there 3G pitch before the game.

blackpoolhibs
04-10-2014, 12:56 PM
Not forgetting that these players train on these pitches through the week as well, they will no how the ball bounces on it and they are a f***ing nightmare for goalkeepers, the problem just now is that they are not all the same surface, Alloa is probably the worst in this league, but when they play Falkirk they won't be use to they're surface as it will have a different bounce to the one at Alloa, when it is hot weather they become sticky and cold weather the ball slides along the surface, us fans can say what we want about them but ask any pro footballer and it will be grass all the time they want to play on, it's not just the bounce of the ball that is the problem but players also picking up injuries on them as well or just feeling sore for a few days after playing on them.

Not a fan of the astro pitches, hope Hibs never go down this route unless it's the Hybrid pitch that has been laid at Murrayfield and the Emirates stadium.

:agree: The game is not as good to watch either in my opinion, lots of what we see on grass is just not done on the plastic pitches.

On the plus side i'd imagine ball skills improve, but as i said earlier the game is not the same or as exciting for me.

silverhibee
04-10-2014, 12:57 PM
Don't like them and probably never will

:agree:

Grass all the time J.

Keith_M
04-10-2014, 04:34 PM
Today's game at QOS has ended that theory.

silverhibee
04-10-2014, 04:46 PM
They've got to be better than Motherwell pitch over the last 10 years. I seem to remember many long threads complaining about that one.

6-6 what more can you ask for. :greengrin

3pm
04-10-2014, 04:46 PM
6-6 what more can you ask for. :greengrin

7-6? :o)

silverhibee
04-10-2014, 04:55 PM
7-6? :o)

Pretty sure if the game had went on for another 5 minutes that would have been the score. :wink: :cb :greengrin

Forza Fred
04-10-2014, 05:42 PM
Maybe we should get a plastic pitch.

We ain't really setting the heather on fire on a grass one:greengrin

smithy_hibees
04-10-2014, 05:56 PM
None hearts won easy again says it all really!

Ronniekirk
04-10-2014, 07:09 PM
None hearts won easy again says it all really!
There's a.ways next week on Alloas inferior artificial pitch but Yep I expect they won't find that a problem as they are winning and full of confidence

Scouse Hibee
05-10-2014, 09:31 AM
Today's game at QOS has ended that theory.


Not really, a vastly superior team will overcome the advantage to the home team which is what happened at QOS.

Eyrie
05-10-2014, 09:46 AM
On the injuries front, as somebody who has played hockey from an early age on astroturf (albeit a hockey astro and not 3G), I can assure anybody reading this that astroturfs in no way generate more injuries than a grass surface. If anything it's less due to how even the surface is. There was a time about 20 years ago when pitches were simply laid on concrete and didn't have any of the cushioning pitches come with today, and that's where the injuries myth comes from. Sure, there's people here who have issues with 3G pitches, but can we really base an argument on the merits of 3G pitches on anecdotal evidence from some amateur football players?

With regards to the 3G in american football, that was mainly to do with blocking/tackling. As there's no give in the pitch (i.e it will hold firm even with huge amounts of force exerted on it) it was very easy to overload the knee when being pushed/tackled, as your foot would essentially be locked in place by the pitch. NFL is still played on a synthetic surface, though the nature of this surface has changed massively over the past few years.

Grass doesn't have long left in football. 3G surfaces are being improved on a daily basis and it's only a matter of time until something is developed that is categorically better than grass. As it stands though, I'd consider a well kept grass pitch superior for football. In Scotland we don't see many of those, so 3G even in it's current form is the best option for the majority of sides here.
Interesting - would appear to support the idea that your body becomes used to playing on a particular type of surface and that many of the injuries suffered by footballers on an artificial pitch are due to not being used to the surface.

Saturday Boy
05-10-2014, 09:40 PM
I always think that as a country, Scotland missed a trick in not exporting red blaze pitches to the world. Even without a Mouldmaster, I'm sure we would have won the World Cup. 3G? you youngsters don't know you're living.