three 9/11 firemen die on same day

[cabbageandribs1875]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-29381978

Three firefighters who were on duty at Ground Zero during the 9/11 attacks have died on the same day from cancer, fire officials have said.
Lieutenant Howard Bischoff, 58, and firefighters Robert Leaver, 56, and Daniel Heglund, 58, died within hours of one another on Monday.


tragic :agree:

[Scottie]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-29381978

Three firefighters who were on duty at Ground Zero during the 9/11 attacks have died on the same day from cancer, fire officials have said.
Lieutenant Howard Bischoff, 58, and firefighters Robert Leaver, 56, and Daniel Heglund, 58, died within hours of one another on Monday.


tragic :agree:

Not enough words can describe how tragic the events of 9/11 was and still is.

Unfortunately this is just the tip of the iceberg with regards the survivors whom some have never received or been given adequate health care. Recently since the recession Obama care has kicked in but all the efforts now are too late for the true heroes of that gruesome day.

RIP the fallen.

[Phil D. Rolls]

Recreational grief.

[Future17]

Recreational grief.

?

[Phil D. Rolls]

?

People getting upset about something, that doesn't really upset them, because it has a high media profile.

There will be countless stories of similar coincidences that go unreported.

[Future17]

People getting upset about something, that doesn't really upset them, because it has a high media profile.

There will be countless stories of similar coincidences that go unreported.

It's not possible to be upset about something you havent heard about.

Baffled as to why you feel in a position to judge what does or does not upset others?

[Phil D. Rolls]

It's not possible to be upset about something you havent heard about.

Baffled as to why you feel in a position to judge what does or does not upset others?

Clearly some people live very sheltered lives then.

From where I'm sitting, I'm free to judge other people whatever way I see fit. I'm also free to have an opinion on it. I admit that opinion is probably bollocks, but there you are.

[Future17]

Clearly some people live very sheltered lives then.

From where I'm sitting, I'm free to judge other people whatever way I see fit. I'm also free to have an opinion on it. I admit that opinion is probably bollocks, but there you are.

Not sure what the sheltered lives comment is about, but fair enough on the rest.

[Phil D. Rolls]

Not sure what the sheltered lives comment is about, but fair enough on the rest.

At its most extreme, I question whether a five year old kid placing a teddy bear outside a murders toddlers flat has any real idea what death is. I'd take that question further, and ask whether people are truly upset about distant events that have no impact on their lives, or whether they just want to feel good about themselves.

Heres a good article (IMO) from the BBC.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3512447.stm

'Mourning sickness is a religion'
Britons are feeding their own egos by indulging in "recreational grief" for murdered children and dead celebrities they have never met, claims a report.
Think-tank Civitas said wearing charity ribbons, holding silences and joining protest marches all indicated the country was in emotional crisis.


The author said "mourning sickness" was a substitute for religion.


Rather than "piling up damp teddies and rotting flowers" people should go out and do some real good, he urged.


In his report, Conspicuous Compassion, author Patrick West said people were trying to feel better about themselves by taking part in "manufactured emotion".


'Phoney'


Describing extravagant public displays of grief for strangers as 'grief-lite' Mr West said these activities were, "undertaken as an enjoyable event, much like going to a football match or the last night of the proms".


"Mourning sickness is a religion for the lonely crowd that no longer subscribes to orthodox churches. Its flowers and teddies are its rites, its collective minutes' silences its liturgy and mass.


“ This obsession with mourning those we have never met devalues true national commemorations like Remembrance Sunday ”
James, Coventry
"But these new bonds are phoney, ephemeral and cynical," he said.


"We saw this at its most ghoulish after the demise of Diana. In truth, mourners were not crying for her, but for themselves," he wrote.


Years later, he claimed, "Diana had served her purpose. The public had moved on. These recreational grievers were now emoting about Jill Dando, Linda McCartney or the Soham girls."


His 80-page pamphlet said that while the Soham murders were "unquestionably tragic", it was "almost as distressing to see sections of the public jumping on the grief bandwagon".


He said the traditional minute's silence has suffered "compassion inflation" and become meaningless.


"They are getting longer and we are having more of them, because we want to be seen to care."


"When a group called Hedgeline calls for a two-minute silence to remember all the 'victims' whose neighbours have grown towering hedges, we truly have reached the stage where this gesture has been emptied of meaning," he added.


Moving on to the wearing of charity ribbons, the report said the act served to "celebrate the culture of victimhood" and was an egotistical gesture to announce "I care".


The trend had not been accompanied by a tangible increase in charity donations, it added, and there was now an "unspoken competition" to see who could wear their Remembrance Day poppy earliest, "particularly among politicians".


And on going on demonstrations, the report said it was "too often an exercise in attention-seeking".


"Next time you profess that you "care" about something, consider your motives and the consequences of your words and actions. Sometimes, the only person you really care about is you," said the report.


Civitas, also known as the Institute for the Study of Civil Society, was launched in 2000 as an independent registered charity.

[Hibrandenburg]

Having witnessed many deaths, natural and violent I can honestly say I still feel empathy towards fellow human beings when fate deals them a bad hand. Just because I don't know that person doesn't mean I can't feel for them. I'd argue that not to would suggest a sociopathological disturbance.

[cabbageandribs1875]

Not enough words can describe how tragic the events of 9/11 was and still is.

Unfortunately this is just the tip of the iceberg with regards the survivors whom some have never received or been given adequate health care. Recently since the recession Obama care has kicked in but all the efforts now are too late for the true heroes of that gruesome day.

RIP the fallen.

i expect so :agree: many more deaths will be down to lung damage from that day




Recreational grief.

sorry ? i honestly have no idea what you're on about ? what grief ? i saw that story and thought what's the odds on 3 fireman from that day dying on the same day 13 years later :confused: as for that day itself it's certainly one day i'l never forget...it was my birthday, thus it's a day that will always be about remembrance for me(and many thousands more) of what happened in New York that day

[Phil D. Rolls]

Having witnessed many deaths, natural and violent I can honestly say I still feel empathy towards fellow human beings when fate deals them a bad hand. Just because I don't know that person doesn't mean I can't feel for them. I'd argue that not to would suggest a sociopathological disturbance.

How often do you feel the need to lay a bunch of flowers, or to talk about those deaths though? I'd suggest that people who spend an unordinate amount of time "grieving" for the dead - are really flagging up issues of their own.

Is this modern, very public, melodramatic way of dealing with death a sign of a society that is grieving for other things? We don't seem to spend the same amount of time celebrating what's good.

[easty]

People getting upset about something, that doesn't really upset them, because it has a high media profile.

There will be countless stories of similar coincidences that go unreported.

I've always thought that. It's a shame that these fireman have died at a fairly young age, but it doesn't upset me anymore than when Mufasa died in The Lion King (sorry for the spoiler if anyone hasn't seen it..).

[Phil D. Rolls]

i expect so :agree: many more deaths will be down to lung damage from that day


sorry ? i honestly have no idea what you're on about ? what grief ? i saw that story and thought what's the odds on 3 fireman from that day dying on the same day 13 years later :confused: as for that day itself it's certainly one day i'l never forget...it was my birthday, thus it's a day that will always be about remembrance for me(and many thousands more) of what happened in New York that day

It's the fact it made the news at all that bugs me.

[Phil D. Rolls]

I've always thought that. It's a shame that these fireman have died at a fairly young age, but it doesn't upset me anymore than when Mufasa died in The Lion King (sorry for the spoiler if anyone hasn't seen it..).

Good one. :greengrin

Can I ask, given the number of people who die every day, why do we stop and pause for some deaths and yet others pass us by?

[Mr White]

How often do you feel the need to lay a bunch of flowers, or to talk about those deaths though? I'd suggest that people who spend an unordinate amount of time "grieving" for the dead - are really flagging up issues of their own.

Is this modern, very public, melodramatic way of dealing with death a sign of a society that is grieving for other things? We don't seem to spend the same amount of time celebrating what's good.

You're right that it's taken to extreme by a lot of people who feel the need to show they "care" through public outpouring of grief for victims they never met. But I would say your position runs the risk of going too far to the opposite extreme of losing empathy for the suffering of others regardless of distance, celebrity status or media coverage.

[Pretty Boy]

Good one. :greengrin

Can I ask, given the number of people who die every day, why do we stop and pause for some deaths and yet others pass us by?

Because we aren't aware of every single death that happens every day.

If I hear about a death it will generally cause some level of emotion(ranging from that's a shame to genuine grief) whether that be a fireman, a celebrity or the women who sits next to me at works Mum.

I'm not a flowers at a murder scene type but I don't see anything massively wrong with feeling empathy when a death, premature or otherwise, happens to someone else. If that nakes me some kind of grief junkie weirdo in a few peoples book then so be it, I can handle that.

[Scouse Hibee]

Good one. :greengrin

Can I ask, given the number of people who die every day, why do we stop and pause for some deaths and yet others pass us by?


How can we stop and pause for deaths that we no nothing of :confused:

Deaths that are seemingly linked to a incident or occasion will more than likely be reported especially on a slow news day.

[Phil D. Rolls]

It's possible to be respectful about death without making a public show of it.

[Hibrandenburg]

It's possible to be respectful about death without making a public show of it.

It's also possible to show empathy without being labelled some sort of ghoul.

[Phil D. Rolls]

It's also possible to show empathy without being labelled some sort of ghoul.

Yes, it is. It's how you avoid being accused of being a ghoul that's the issue. To me, a lot of the platitudes that people utter are ghoulish, as they are often more about the person saying them than the deceased.

[easty]

Only loosely connected, but it does make me laugh, so I'm bringing it in to the thread


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1H913UqQ6w

[Phil D. Rolls]

Only loosely connected, but it does make me laugh, so I'm bringing it in to the thread


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1H913UqQ6w

"Who would have thought that was an appropriate gesture?" Says it all for me.

Getting back on the topic that I hijacked earlier. I'm willing to take a punt that, given the number of fire crews involved, it is probably not that unusual statistically.

[Sir David Gray]

The fact is that we're talking here about three firemen who were on duty on the day of 9/11 all losing their lives on the same day 13 years later to cancer. The death of anyone who was associated with that awful day will undoubtedly evoke a lot of emotion for many people, given how traumatic it was.

It remains the biggest world event that has occurred in my lifetime and I would imagine it will stay that way for the rest of my life too.

[steakbake]

As terrible as 11th Sept was, there have been several incidents which have seen hundreds even thousands die yet we don't get all po-faced and deep in our recollections of them. Often times people don't even remember the event. Rana Plaza: over three thousand killed or maimed in one day as they made clothes for us to buy cheaply from Primark. There's no ground zero for them, no documentaries charting the brave but tragic lives lost. No news media looking for symmetries of fate for the victims. No annual vow that this shall never happen again...

But that's not the fault of the 9-11 victims. It's the media narrative what does it plus a world view that lives of people in a western city are so much more important than those in places most couldn't point to on a map.

13 years later, 9-11 still gives me fertile ground for cynicism.

[GreenLake]

"Who would have thought that was an appropriate gesture?" Says it all for me.

Getting back on the topic that I hijacked earlier. I'm willing to take a punt that, given the number of fire crews involved, it is probably not that unusual statistically.

I was wondering about that, but what I noticed most was that all three had different cancers. One had Leukemia, another had bowel cancer and another had cancer metastasized to his bones. It's hard to see how the same cause could have timed those results but nevertheless it isn't impossible and it is very possible 9/11 had an effect on one or more of them. Cancer arises in people in many different forms and the same cause can form cancer in different ways.

Reading the stories about these victims is interesting regardless of 9/11, and cancer is going to kill many more of us each year than all the terrorist attacks throughout recorded history up till now and for many years to come (unless the ***** get a hold of WMD's).

While we mourn the 9/11 cancer victims please spare a thought for the other cancer victims in the world, some of whom we all probably remember or know personally.

Figures from the World Health Organization.

Total cancer victims - 8.2 million
lung - 1.59 million global victims each year
Liver - 745000
Stomach - 723000
Colorectal - 694000
breast - 521000
oesophageal - 400000

[sleeping giant]

I was thinking about this the other night after a neighbour had posted a poem on Facebook regarding a death of someone we both only just knew.

This was a beautiful Poem but there was no way my neighbour knew the intimate details of this persons life and death as described in the poem .

Still , it got 30 odd "likes"