Tonight's Attendance

[Sergey]

Just to put Scottish football into prospective a bit - tonight's attendance at Ross County was 1,819.

The attendance in the Ryman Premier League tonight at the Margate vs Maidstone match was 2,306.

Not sure what point I'm actually trying to make, but it's a sad day when a Ryman League match gets a higher attendance than a competitive Scottish fixture.

[HappyAsHellas]

Margate population - 40,000

Dingwall population about 6.000 which would make it roughly the same size as Haddington. Demographics is why we have low crowds here, it's nothing to do with enthusiasm, or love of the game. How far apart are the respective grounds?

[Danderhall Hibs]

Just to put Scottish football into prospective a bit - tonight's attendance at Ross County was 1,819.

The attendance in the Ryman Premier League tonight at the Margate vs Maidstone match was 2,306.

Not sure what point I'm actually trying to make, but it's a sad day when a Ryman League match gets a higher attendance than a competitive Scottish fixture.

Was there a match played in the Rymans where the teams were separated by hundreds of miles?

Oh and it doesn't seem like our match was competitive.:na na:

[Carheenlea]

Population of Margate - 57,000
Population of Dingwall - 5,000

[Danderhall Hibs]

Population of Margate - 57,000
Population of Dingwall - 5,000

Poor crowd at Margate then. They should be aiming for around 18000?

[erin-go-bragh87]

Margate population - 40,000

Dingwall population about 6.000 which would make it roughly the same size as Haddington. Demographics is why we have low crowds here, it's nothing to do with enthusiasm, or love of the game. How far apart are the respective grounds?

This. I might have made this up but were Caley not the best supported team in terms of percentage of attendances to the local population a couple of seasons ago??

[over the line]

I understand the small populations and distance stuff, but it is sad to see on the TV, vast areas of empty seats in almost all Scottish matches. some games look as though there is hardly anyone there at all! I do think it is a problem, but how is it solved?

[HappyAsHellas]

This. I might have made this up but were Caley not the best supported team in terms of percentage of attendances to the local population a couple of seasons ago??

In the EPL most teams have a catchment area of at least a million which more or less guarantees crowds of 50k or more. Using this figure as a base, Edinburgh should entice about 25k fans to respective games and Ross County should get roughly 250 people per game, so yes, they are indeed punching above their weight.

[Twiglet]

Aside from population - Margate to Maidstone 44 miles (approx 57 mins)
- Edinburgh to Dingwall 168 miles (approx 3h 20 mins)

[Leithenhibby]

Aside from population - Margate to Maidstone 44 miles (approx 57 mins)
- Edinburgh to Dingwall 168 miles (approx 3h 20 mins)

That's a fair point. :wink:

And as the OP said, not sure what his point was :greengrin But it has been put to bed.............

[Viva_Palmeiras]

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Campeonato_Brasileiro_Série_A

Shocking stats given the size of the cities over there.
Partly working men priced out the game I understand shutting parts of the stadia where folks use to stand. I wonder who's introduced subscriptions AND pay per view for the Classicos...?

[Sergey]

Population of Margate - 57,000
Population of Dingwall - 5,000


Poor crowd at Margate then. They should be aiming for around 18000?

If Edinburgh has a population of circa 500k - explain to me why out last two home attendances have been circa 11k and 5k.

Would it be fair to say that Margate are doing a lot better than Hibs if we're equating the stats on a per-capita argument?

Margate are a side that would struggle to beat Bo'ness Utd yet still manage to pull in a decent crowd (considering that it's amateur football on offer for under a tenner).

[blackpoolhibs]

If Edinburgh has a population of circa 500k - explain to me why out last two home attendances have been circa 11k and 5k.

Would it be fair to say that Margate are doing a lot better than Hibs if we're equating the stats on a per-capita argument?

Margate are a side that would struggle to beat Bo'ness Utd yet still manage to pull in a decent crowd (considering that it's amateur football on offer for under a tenner).

Maybe Hibs need to drop the price? :timebomb:

[Hibeewilly]

There was about 250-300 Hibees

[Ozyhibby]

If Edinburgh has a population of circa 500k - explain to me why out last two home attendances have been circa 11k and 5k.

Would it be fair to say that Margate are doing a lot better than Hibs if we're equating the stats on a per-capita argument?

Margate are a side that would struggle to beat Bo'ness Utd yet still manage to pull in a decent crowd (considering that it's amateur football on offer for under a tenner).

I've no idea how Margate are doing nor do I care but it's hard to imagine they could be doing worse than Hibs.
:-(

[Jack Hackett]

Look no further than the scourge of Scottish football for an explanation.

Brighton is about half the size of Edinburgh but attract crowds roughly equal to Hibs and Hertz combined on a good week. The difference is that they have no top class competition within 50 miles and lots of people living within that catchment area. The only viable alternatives are the London clubs, which are expensive.

Edinburgh also has to compete with the attractions of the sectarianism on offer in Glasgow....and let's face it, there are plenty of people on the eastern side of the country for whom this is a major draw

[silverhibee]

There was about 250-300 Hibees

Hopefully a lot more travel through to Glasgow on Monday night with Saltire :saltireflag in hand.

Well done the fans that travelled up tonight.

[Stax]

I understand the small populations and distance stuff, but it is sad to see on the TV, vast areas of empty seats in almost all Scottish matches. some games look as though there is hardly anyone there at all! I do think it is a problem, but how is it solved?
Wigan v Ipswich last night was like a morgue, Watford game lunchtime kick off on Saturday saw thousands of empty seats as well. Even with all the money sloshing around in the English leagues I think crowds are noticeably down across all divisions. Combination of TV games and extortionate prices to blame IMO.

[mca]

Maybe Hibs need to drop the price? :timebomb:


There was about 250-300 Hibees


With Stadium's our size - £5 - £10 at most.. !! :agree:

but hey ho lets price the poor man out..

[over the line]

Wigan v Ipswich last night was like a morgue, Watford game lunchtime kick off on Saturday saw thousands of empty seats as well. Even with all the money sloshing around in the English leagues I think crowds are noticeably down across all divisions. Combination of TV games and extortionate prices to blame IMO.

I do wonder why clubs don't adjust their ticket prices, or give incentives to get more bums on seats (or trainers on terraces). Fill the seats and you sell more food, drink, programmes, home shirts etc etc. Plus people sat at home see a fuller stadium, better atmosphere etc and are more likely to tip up on a saturday afternoon themselves.

I also think that if you could watch the match with a pint again that would bring people back.

[mca]

I do wonder why clubs don't adjust their ticket prices, or give incentives to get more bums on seats (or trainers on terraces). Fill the seats and you sell more food, drink, programmes, home shirts etc etc. Plus people sat at home see a fuller stadium, better atmosphere etc and are more likely to tip up on a saturday afternoon themselves.

I also think that if you could watch the match with a pint again that would bring people back.


Stop talking Sense and think of the Balance Sheet!!!!.. :greengrin

[Scottie]

Hopefully a lot more travel through to Glasgow on Monday night with Saltire :saltireflag in hand.

Well done the fans that travelled up tonight.

Judging by the amount of NO voters Within our ranks on here they won't be taking Saltires through it will be Union Jacks and they'll be joining in with Rule Britania with their buddies from the West :furious:

[Turkish Green]

Look no further than the scourge of Scottish football for an explanation.

Brighton is about half the size of Edinburgh but attract crowds roughly equal to Hibs and Hertz combined on a good week. The difference is that they have no top class competition within 50 miles and lots of people living within that catchment area. The only viable alternatives are the London clubs, which are expensive.

Edinburgh also has to compete with the attractions of the sectarianism on offer in Glasgow....and let's face it, there are plenty of people on the eastern side of the country for whom this is a major draw
Brighton might be a bad example as a significant proportion of it's population is far more interested in flower arranging than football.

[Hermit Crab]

Hopefully a lot more travel through to Glasgow on Monday night with Saltire :saltireflag in hand.

Well done the fans that travelled up tonight.


Just back. 250 is about right. We got our reward. :greengrin

[H18Y GW]

Hopefully a lot more travel through to Glasgow on Monday night with Saltire :saltireflag in hand.

Well done the fans that travelled up tonight.


If we are doing it on pro rata voting statistics, there will be one third more Hibs fans with a Union Jack in hand than a Saltire,i would without a doubt only carry a Scotland flag, although not to a Hibs game but most certainly never voted YES..:aok:

[Beefster]

Judging by the amount of NO voters Within our ranks on here they won't be taking Saltires through it will be Union Jacks and they'll be joining in with Rule Britania with their buddies from the West :furious:

The way you've accepted what happened last Thursday without being bitter or whining like a six-year-old girl who has been told to out her loom bands away has been really inspiring.

[Wakeyhibee]

If Edinburgh has a population of circa 500k - explain to me why out last two home attendances have been circa 11k and 5k.

Would it be fair to say that Margate are doing a lot better than Hibs if we're equating the stats on a per-capita argument?

Margate are a side that would struggle to beat Bo'ness Utd yet still manage to pull in a decent crowd (considering that it's amateur football on offer for under a tenner).

All the other games were about half of what a league game between the same teams would get, that's the League Cup for you, until possibly the Semis. You can't really compare the per capita to individual English teams at any level. Half of England don't support just Chelsea and Man U for example, much more competition. The appetite for football is greater in Scotland per capita by overall population, unfortunately the vast majority support 2 teams. Agree it's depressing.

[HH81]

Just to put Scottish football into prospective a bit - tonight's attendance at Ross County was 1,819.

The attendance in the Ryman Premier League tonight at the Margate vs Maidstone match was 2,306.

Not sure what point I'm actually trying to make, but it's a sad day when a Ryman League match gets a higher attendance than a competitive Scottish fixture.

Local derby, top of the table clash. Both teams are miles ahead.

FC Halifax Town once pulled in a crowd of over 4000 at the same level. Margate will be back at their usual crowd of say under 500 the next home game.

Bet some crowds in the league cup in England were awful tonight.

[Gus]

[QUOTE=H18Y GW;4180901]If we are doing it on pro rata voting statistics, there will be one third more Hibs fans with a Union Jack in hand than a Saltire,i would without a doubt only carry a Scotland flag, although not to a Hibs game but most certainly never voted YES..:aok:[/

Why take a Scotland flag or a Union Jack to the game? It's a hibs game ffs, take a Hibs flag and use your saltire to dry your eyes

[Septimus]

I have no real idea where Margate is and care even less. I wonder however how many bus loads of bigots and glory hunters leave every Saturday to support some distant team?

[davemcbain]

Surprised at the crowd - we were saying in the car on the way home we'd be surprised if there were 4 figures there. Reckon they counted both teams, bus drivers, ball boys, pie sellers, polis and the queue in the chippy to get 1800.

[Craig_HFC]

What an unbelievably pointless thread.

[blackpoolhibs]

With Stadium's our size - £5 - £10 at most.. !! :agree:

but hey ho lets price the poor man out..

While i do agree that the price is getting out of reach for some folk, only 11 days ago we couldnt give tickets away for free.

[Ozyhibby]

While i do agree that the price is getting out of reach for some folk, only 11 days ago we couldnt give tickets away for free.

Exactly, it's not price that's keeping people away from Easter road.

[tamig]

What an unbelievably pointless thread.

Not really. I think most of us recognise that crowds in Scotland are poor. Hamilton had less than 2k for their early home games back in the top league. However, quite a few English towns which have non league teams have larger populations than many towns here - so its not that surprising they draw bigger crowds. It also opens up the debate as to how we can get more bums on seats. What would you suggest?

[HappyAsHellas]

Certain teams in Europe have manged to get more people in by having standing areas where the admission is lower. This in itself does not guarantee either bigger crowds or revenue. Selling out the home sections at ER every home game with the ticket price £10 will only bring in £165,000, whereas if we sell 10,000 at £22 we get £220,000. If Hibs were to assign the FF upper for standing only at a cheaper price, how many paying £22 elsewhere in the stadium would make a bee line for the cheaper areas?
The product on the park has to be the catalyst for any plan to increase crowds, and while I believe this is starting to happen, it will take time. We will never have the revenue of larger nations because of demographics and the fact that the rest of the world couldn't care less about Scottish football outside the OF.
If we go back to the 70's and look at the league structure then, the crowds were larger and the product was much more entertaining. More teams brought through their own youngsters and then inevitably sold them onto bigger teams. For Scottish football itself, this really is a no brainer as our clubs competed at a very good level in Europe at that time. I put this down to the fact that with a larger league which you were never likely to win, you could afford to bring in youngsters against the smaller teams without worrying about relegation. This in turn led to a more attacking style of play, as opposed to the mind numbing drivel we have been served since the inception of the premier league.
Basically, as long as we laughably think we can try to compete with what happens in England we will continue to fail miserably.

[Carheenlea]

We can throw figures and comparisons about all day, but I'm sure most of us will agree that top flight clubs only attracting a thousand odd fans does our game up here no favours.

[HappyAsHellas]

We can throw figures and comparisons about all day, but I'm sure most of us will agree that top flight clubs only attracting a thousand odd fans does our game up here no favours.

What favours do we need? We have our own league system which is fine in it's own right. The leagues could be organised better for the enjoyment of all, but we will never have bumper crowds.

[Craig_HFC]

Not really. I think most of us recognise that crowds in Scotland are poor. Hamilton had less than 2k for their early home games back in the top league. However, quite a few English towns which have non league teams have larger populations than many towns here - so its not that surprising they draw bigger crowds. It also opens up the debate as to how we can get more bums on seats. What would you suggest?

A decent team on the park would be a start.

You can lower the prices/free ticket for a mate/free pie with a ticket offers etc all you want but the only thing that is really going to get the supporters back in the stadium on match days is a team that is enjoyable to watch.

[tamig]

A decent team on the park would be a start.

You can lower the prices/free ticket for a mate/free pie with a ticket offers etc all you want but the only thing that is really going to get the supporters back in the stadium on match days is a team that is enjoyable to watch.

Agree to an extent but thats probably the most difficult thing to achieve - as we all know too well. I think the clubs here need to look at the pricing though based on whats on offer on the park. Lower the prices while improving things on the pitch and the crowds will flow back. Once the product is better the prices can increase - a bit. They are far too high currently.

[Squealing pig]

If Edinburgh has a population of circa 500k - explain to me why out last two home attendances have been circa 11k and 5k.

Would it be fair to say that Margate are doing a lot better than Hibs if we're equating the stats on a per-capita argument?

Margate are a side that would struggle to beat Bo'ness Utd yet still manage to pull in a decent crowd (considering that it's amateur football on offer for under a tenner).
Most sides would struggle to beat Bo'ness ... What a team !

[Ozyhibby]

http://www.sportingintelligence.com/2012/04/02/revealed-the-most-dedicated-football-nations-the-faroes-iceland-cyprus-scotland-and-england-020403/

[Keith_M]

If Edinburgh has a population of circa 500k - explain to me why out last two home attendances have been circa 11k and 5k.

Would it be fair to say that Margate are doing a lot better than Hibs if we're equating the stats on a per-capita argument?

Margate are a side that would struggle to beat Bo'ness Utd yet still manage to pull in a decent crowd (considering that it's amateur football on offer for under a tenner).


What has that got to do with your original point, which was the allegedly poor crowd at Dingwall?

[Craig_HFC]

Agree to an extent but thats probably the most difficult thing to achieve - as we all know too well. I think the clubs here need to look at the pricing though based on whats on offer on the park. Lower the prices while improving things on the pitch and the crowds will flow back. Once the product is better the prices can increase - a bit. They are far too high currently.

Agreed, however it's never as black & white as that.

Take the Hibs support, for example; we've been dealing with sh*t being thrown at us as a support since Scott Brown & Rob Jones lifted the League Cup above their heads on 18 March 2007. The final in 2012 was the last straw for quite a few people and then relegation last season finished off a lot of others.

We sold off all the talent we had, which was always going to happen, but replaced them with total duds/free transfers. We never invested any of the transfer revenue into the playing squad, instead we built our own training centre and a new stand. This is all fair enough but I just think the spending should have been a bit more split between the infrastructure and the playing squad. That way, then we arguably would have been in a much better position than we are at the moment, football-wise. We wouldn't have had such a rapid decline and the support would not be totally scunnered as a load of people are just now.

It's all 'what if' as nobody can definitively say what would have happened if we'd prioritised the football side of things rather than the infrastructure but I don't think many people would disagree that we'd be in a better position than we're currently in.

[silverhibee]

Just back. 250 is about right. We got our reward. :greengrin


Did you drive back in a tractor. :greengrin

[Carheenlea]

What favours do we need? We have our own league system which is fine in it's own right. The leagues could be organised better for the enjoyment of all, but we will never have bumper crowds.
Sponsorship of league and cup would be helpful, but right now the Scottish game is not an attractive proposition for sponsors.

[FastEddieFelson]

top of the table clash, margate/maidstone

[Eyrie]

Agreed, however it's never as black & white as that.

Take the Hibs support, for example; we've been dealing with sh*t being thrown at us as a support since Scott Brown & Rob Jones lifted the League Cup above their heads on 18 March 2007. The final in 2012 was the last straw for quite a few people and then relegation last season finished off a lot of others.

We sold off all the talent we had, which was always going to happen, but replaced them with total duds/free transfers. We never invested any of the transfer revenue into the playing squad, instead we built our own training centre and a new stand. This is all fair enough but I just think the spending should have been a bit more split between the infrastructure and the playing squad. That way, then we arguably would have been in a much better position than we are at the moment, football-wise. We wouldn't have had such a rapid decline and the support would not be totally scunnered as a load of people are just now.

It's all 'what if' as nobody can definitively say what would have happened if we'd prioritised the football side of things rather than the infrastructure but I don't think many people would disagree that we'd be in a better position than we're currently in.
We prioritised the football side to the extent that we've had the fourth or fifth highest wage bill every year in the period that you mention, and three of the clubs ahead of us are Septic, Huns RIP/Sevco Huns and the bankrupt Yams.

The failing was not in how much we spent but in how we spent it. Too many crap managers signing too many crap players. Paying more money to duds wouldn't have helped us.

[OsloHibs]

Judging by the amount of NO voters Within our ranks on here they won't be taking Saltires through it will be Union Jacks and they'll be joining in with Rule Britania with their buddies from the West :furious:

Scotland....? Don't you mean Northern Britain :stirrer::worms:

[Alfred E Newman]

By head of population I think we are one of the best supported leagues in Europe. At one time we definitely were when the the likes of Raith and East Fife could attract 20000 on occasion .

[ekhibee]

Agreed, however it's never as black & white as that.

Take the Hibs support, for example; we've been dealing with sh*t being thrown at us as a support since Scott Brown & Rob Jones lifted the League Cup above their heads on 18 March 2007. The final in 2012 was the last straw for quite a few people and then relegation last season finished off a lot of others.

We sold off all the talent we had, which was always going to happen, but replaced them with total duds/free transfers. We never invested any of the transfer revenue into the playing squad, instead we built our own training centre and a new stand. This is all fair enough but I just think the spending should have been a bit more split between the infrastructure and the playing squad. That way, then we arguably would have been in a much better position than we are at the moment, football-wise. We wouldn't have had such a rapid decline and the support would not be totally scunnered as a load of people are just now.

It's all 'what if' as nobody can definitively say what would have happened if we'd prioritised the football side of things rather than the infrastructure but I don't think many people would disagree that we'd be in a better position than we're currently in.
Good post, totally agree.

[southern hibby]

Judging by the amount of NO voters Within our ranks on here they won't be taking Saltires through it will be Union Jacks and they'll be joining in with Rule Britania with their buddies from the West :furious:

On the other hand with Glasgow voting yes all the Saltires will be I'n their end and they will be singing o flower of Scotland lol

GGTTH

[Bristolhibby]

The way you've accepted what happened last Thursday without being bitter or whining like a six-year-old girl who has been told to out her loom bands away has been really inspiring.

LOL to the loom band reference.

TBH we've never been a team for UJ's, I would have no issue with Saltires, and nobody should see them as any more than say a West Ham fan taking a St George's cross to a game.

I have a Hibs Green Saltire that gets unfurled for big games.

J

[tamig]

LOL to the loom band reference.

TBH we've never been a team for UJ's, I would have no issue with Saltires, and nobody should see them as any more than say a West Ham fan taking a St George's cross to a game.

I have a Hibs Green Saltire that gets unfurled for big games.

J

I have to say that the green CCS union jack was a great looking flag.

[Hermit Crab]

Did you drive back in a tractor. :greengrin

No but the bus got stuck behind a few

[Hermit Crab]

LOL to the loom band reference.

TBH we've never been a team for UJ's, I would have no issue with Saltires, and nobody should see them as any more than say a West Ham fan taking a St George's cross to a game.

I have a Hibs Green Saltire that gets unfurled for big games.

J

My 15ft green and white saltire was in the stand behind the goals, clearly seen on the tv :D