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View Full Version : The players have to break this cycle



matty_f
21-09-2014, 05:09 PM
We are undoubtedly a club in crisis. 4 defeats from 6 league games in Scotland's second tier tells it's own story and we seem to be lurching from one balls-up to the next. We find ourselves in a position where each defeat provokes a bigger and more furious reaction from the support and what little confidence we had is getting pummelled week by week.
Even when we're winning we're doing it in a way that doesn't lend itself to confidence building, and we seem - at the moment - incapable of building anything resembling momentum.

The support have justifiably had enough, there is no patience left and there is little in the way of forgiveness or understanding left for under-performing players making game-costing mistakes. The goodwill afforded to a new manager is slipping away as well, as results carry on in the same lame manner as last season. Instead of being a season of rehabilitation, recovery, and building winning habits, we're back on the bottle and self-harming to a ridiculous degree.

It's a viscous cycle now, mistakes get punished, fans go radge, players hide, players make mistakes, mistakes get punished, fans go radge, and so on and so on.

IMHO, the board have hung Stubbs out to dry. Quality over quantity was the mantra (again), and I sat no more than 4 chairs away from Leeann Dempster when she said she didn't see the value in loan players, and that our goal was to win the league. Those words seem very hollow now. (Leeann also said she'd have a presence on here and the Bounce, incidentally, which also appears to have been an empty promise, but that's by the by at the moment).

We've filled the squad with loans and in all honesty, our hopes of salvaging something from this season seem to rest on the prospect of another loan - Leigh Griffiths - who is going to have to wear a cape and his pants on over his trousers to save our season by himself. We've seen a promise to only sign players that fit the bill, who've been researched and vetted and measured against very specific criteria be forgotten about to sign Malonga on (IIRC) a two year deal. We'll not be signing players based on their Wikipedia, we were told. Well, I'd love to see the research that went into that signing, because his Youtube offering certainly wasn't up to much.

And so here we find ourselves in seventh place having salvaged three points from the bottom side last week. The fans are starting to give up (well, those that hadn't already chucked it are starting, the others are long gone) and there is no feel good factor about the club.

The players need to step up to the plate now. This is no longer about getting a hard time from the fans or dealing with the outrage at yet another flop of a season. The players need to be big, be brave, and put on some performances to get some slack from the fans. The fans have backed them time and time again, and almost on every occasion the players have let us down.

It's not the fans' responsibility to lift the players now, it needs to work the other way around. They have to find that strength and confidence from somewhere within themselves and start showing that they can perform to the expectations of a club the size of Hibernian.

Until they do that, they're going to continue to evoke the ire of the support, and we'll continue on this horrendous downward spiral we're on.

blackpoolhibs
21-09-2014, 05:18 PM
We are undoubtedly a club in crisis. 4 defeats from 6 league games in Scotland's second tier tells it's own story and we seem to be lurching from one balls-up to the next. We find ourselves in a position where each defeat provokes a bigger and more furious reaction from the support and what little confidence we had is getting pummelled week by week.
Even when we're winning we're doing it in a way that doesn't lend itself to confidence building, and we seem - at the moment - incapable of building anything resembling momentum.

The support have justifiably had enough, there is no patience left and there is little in the way of forgiveness or understanding left for under-performing players making game-costing mistakes. The goodwill afforded to a new manager is slipping away as well, as results carry on in the same lame manner as last season. Instead of being a season of rehabilitation, recovery, and building winning habits, we're back on the bottle and self-harming to a ridiculous degree.

It's a viscous cycle now, mistakes get punished, fans go radge, players hide, players make mistakes, mistakes get punished, fans go radge, and so on and so on.

IMHO, the board have hung Stubbs out to dry. Quality over quantity was the mantra (again), and I sat no more than 4 chairs away from Leeann Dempster when she said she didn't see the value in loan players, and that our goal was to win the league. Those words seem very hollow now. (Leeann also said she'd have a presence on here and the Bounce, incidentally, which also appears to have been an empty promise, but that's by the by at the moment).

We've filled the squad with loans and in all honesty, our hopes of salvaging something from this season seem to rest on the prospect of another loan - Leigh Griffiths - who is going to have to wear a cape and his pants on over his trousers to save our season by himself. We've seen a promise to only sign players that fit the bill, who've been researched and vetted and measured against very specific criteria be forgotten about to sign Malonga on (IIRC) a two year deal. We'll not be signing players based on their Wikipedia, we were told. Well, I'd love to see the research that went into that signing, because his Youtube offering certainly wasn't up to much.

And so here we find ourselves in seventh place having salvaged three points from the bottom side last week. The fans are starting to give up (well, those that hadn't already chucked it are starting, the others are long gone) and there is no feel good factor about the club.

The players need to step up to the plate now. This is no longer about getting a hard time from the fans or dealing with the outrage at yet another flop of a season. The players need to be big, be brave, and put on some performances to get some slack from the fans. The fans have backed them time and time again, and almost on every occasion the players have let us down.

It's not the fans' responsibility to lift the players now, it needs to work the other way around. They have to find that strength and confidence from somewhere within themselves and start showing that they can perform to the expectations of a club the size of Hibernian.

Until they do that, they're going to continue to evoke the ire of the support, and we'll continue on this horrendous downward spiral we're on.

Thats a good post Matty, but when you look through this squad of players, if you are genuinely honest with yourself, this lot are just not good enough, and the better players ARE loans.

Not good enough to create, not good enough to out battle the opposition and not good enough to win enough games to get us promoted.

You can talk about the players being brave, find strength and confidence from somewhere, but thats just soundbites Matty, its quality we need, and leadership.

We have little quality and no leadership.

HibbyAndy
21-09-2014, 05:21 PM
Brilliant post Matty , Cant really argue with any that , And your spot on about the players giving us something back..We have supported them through thick and thin and got absolute zilch back in return, Slapped in the puss time and time and time again... Wee bit disheartened about Dempsters words too...She hasn't covered herself in any glory.

But for me, And only speaking for me, Im finished..Lied to time and again, Ill no be back for quite a wee while, The laddie isn't interested in Hibs anymore also so its a no brainer.


Sickened the way we have been in decline for years and addressed nothing.

matty_f
21-09-2014, 05:24 PM
Thats a good post Matty, but when you look through this squad of players, if you are genuinely honest with yourself, this lot are just not good enough, and the better players ARE loans.

Not good enough to create, not good enough to out battle the opposition and not good enough to win enough games to get us promoted.

You can talk about the players being brave, find strength and confidence from somewhere, but thats just soundbites Matty, its quality we need, and leadership.

We have little quality and no leadership.

That's because the board didn't do enough to get quality in. That the loans are the better players tells us all we need to know, IMHO.

Given we can't really bring in leadership now, we need leaders to emerge from what we have. That's not impossible or just about soundbites, we need someone to step up to the plate. Some people find being a leader easier than others, but all it takes is for someone to understand what they need to do to be a leader, and then have the balls to go and do it.

We have players that should be good enough to beat the teams we are facing. There is quality there to an extent, certainly relative to the division we are in. What's lacking is more character than ability.

I can't accept that with the right direction and motivation, there isn't someone in that dressing room capable of being a leader on the field.

blackpoolhibs
21-09-2014, 05:30 PM
That's because the board didn't do enough to get quality in. That the loans are the better players tells us all we need to know, IMHO.

Given we can't really bring in leadership now, we need leaders to emerge from what we have. That's not impossible or just about soundbites, we need someone to step up to the plate. Some people find being a leader easier than others, but all it takes is for someone to understand what they need to do to be a leader, and then have the balls to go and do it.

We have players that should be good enough to beat the teams we are facing. There is quality there to an extent, certainly relative to the division we are in. What's lacking is more character than ability.

I can't accept that with the right direction and motivation, there isn't someone in that dressing room capable of being a leader on the field.

Yip the board failed us again. :agree: As for someone stepping up to the plate, look at the squad Matty, we dont have anyone who could remotely grab this team by the scruff of the neck and drag it upwards. Look at the contenders, Hanlon nope, Gray nope, Robertson, :faf: Craig FFS did i just put him down as someone to improve us?

We dont have ANYONE to dig us out the sheite, Rob Jones was criticised but christ we could do with someone like him, and a Griffiths up front. :pray: But i suppose with him being a loan, Dempster wouldnt like that. :rolleyes:

truehibernian
21-09-2014, 05:31 PM
Matty, I know two really really highly rated young players at age levels U15 and U14.........both, having spoken to people in the game, are apparently showing so much promise there is a real buzz of excitement about them. And I mean a real buzz of 'wow, we have something here'. One sadly plays for The Rangers......the other another club, not Hibs. Both are avid avid Hibs supporters.

These are players who we should be absolutely making sure we sign and coach and keep. We don't. We haven't. We've never scouted properly.

That for me is the huge huge concern. Scouting young talent and actually offering them the very real opportunity to play. Instead we lurched from manager to manager and took in loans, journeymen and players who absolutely were scouted from DVD's........shocking.

sleeping giant
21-09-2014, 05:33 PM
The players need to forget all about trying to win for the fans. They need to sort their heads out and try to regain some pride in their efforts .

h18eeynick
21-09-2014, 05:35 PM
Excellent post Matty and summed everything up perfectectly. I rarely ever post but read the site every day and at 50 I too am getting to stage of giving up. Went to game yesterday but will take a lot to get me back again as dont believe what was being said a few months ago will result in right actions

Pretty Boy
21-09-2014, 05:39 PM
Good post Matty.

I was at the same neeting as you when the comment about loans was made. I'd really like to ask why that policy changed. Nothing against the loanees, one of whom has been something resembling a bright spot, but it's not the way forward. At that meeting LD stated she felt loans were 'poor value for money'. She then, bizzarely as a half hearted defence of our transfer policy, stated at the consulatation meetings the other week that loans aren't a cheap option.

It's a strange shift in policy that doesn't sit well with me and needs explained imo.

The Green Goblin
21-09-2014, 05:45 PM
Good post Matty.

I was at the same neeting as you when the comment about loans was made. I'd really like to ask why that policy changed. Nothing against the loanees, one of whom has been something resembling a bright spot, but it's not the way forward. At that meeting LD stated she felt loans were 'poor value for money'. She then, bizzarely as a half hearted defence of our transfer policy, stated at the consulatation meetings the other week that loans aren't a cheap option.

It's a strange shift in policy that doesn't sit well with me and needs explained imo.

Quite right. Could it be the case that the board (the same board who got us here but are somehow still running the club) stood up to her on her plans? Or is it something to do with The Cat`s post a while back that there was stuff about to come out regarding the internal workings of Hibs which would be bad news? It does suggest that LD does not have the autonomy she claimed to have. These are just guesses and all of them could be wide of the mark, but I can say for certain that whatever is behind it, is not something good.

majorhibs
21-09-2014, 05:47 PM
Matty, I know two really really highly rated young players at age levels U15 and U14.........both, having spoken to people in the game, are apparently showing so much promise there is a real buzz of excitement about them. And I mean a real buzz of 'wow, we have something here'. One sadly plays for The Rangers......the other another club, not Hibs. Both are avid avid Hibs supporters.

These are players who we should be absolutely making sure we sign and coach and keep. We don't. We haven't. We've never scouted properly.

That for me is the huge huge concern. Scouting young talent and actually offering them the very real opportunity to play. Instead we lurched from manager to manager and took in loans, journeymen and players who absolutely were scouted from DVD's........shocking.

As of last season (dont know about now) all they wanted to know was what they already had, absolutely no drive if it was not already on their doorstep. Even when it was being offered to them. "Thems the rules, thats it, cheerio" was how it went.

Bobby's Cinema
21-09-2014, 05:50 PM
That's because the board didn't do enough to get quality in. That the loans are the better players tells us all we need to know, IMHO.

Given we can't really bring in leadership now, we need leaders to emerge from what we have. That's not impossible or just about soundbites, we need someone to step up to the plate. Some people find being a leader easier than others, but all it takes is for someone to understand what they need to do to be a leader, and then have the balls to go and do it.

We have players that should be good enough to beat the teams we are facing. There is quality there to an extent, certainly relative to the division we are in. What's lacking is more character than ability.

I can't accept that with the right direction and motivation, there isn't someone in that dressing room capable of being a leader on the field.
I hope Paul Hanlon feels the same way. I would be looking to him. He should be strolling this league.

The acceptance and willingness to surrender points within this team is pathetic.

We have another reasonable gap between now and our next game being a Monday night. Let's see what can be done

matty_f
21-09-2014, 05:52 PM
Yip the board failed us again. :agree: As for someone stepping up to the plate, look at the squad Matty, we dont have anyone who could remotely grab this team by the scruff of the neck and drag it upwards. Look at the contenders, Hanlon nope, Gray nope, Robertson, :faf: Craig FFS did i just put him down as someone to improve us?

We dont have ANYONE to dig us out the sheite, Rob Jones was criticised but christ we could do with someone like him, and a Griffiths up front. :pray: But i suppose with him being a loan, Dempster wouldnt like that. :rolleyes:

I've seen (in different walks of life, admittedly, but the principle is the same) people who have come from nowhere to stand out as real leaders. Everyone has that potential, but it sometimes takes them realising that they either can be, or need to be, that leader before they step up to the mark.



Matty, I know two really really highly rated young players at age levels U15 and U14.........both, having spoken to people in the game, are apparently showing so much promise there is a real buzz of excitement about them. And I mean a real buzz of 'wow, we have something here'. One sadly plays for The Rangers......the other another club, not Hibs. Both are avid avid Hibs supporters.

These are players who we should be absolutely making sure we sign and coach and keep. We don't. We haven't. We've never scouted properly.

That for me is the huge huge concern. Scouting young talent and actually offering them the very real opportunity to play. Instead we lurched from manager to manager and took in loans, journeymen and players who absolutely were scouted from DVD's........shocking.

I need to be honest, I'm sure we'll be looking at the youth side of things but right now we have one priority and one priority only, and that's sorting out the shambles of a first team asap.

I know Hibs have stated that they want to be the club of choice for youth players in the Lothians at least, and the link up with Spartans shows some signs of intent on that front, so hopefully more players like the two you know come to Hibs rather than us missing out on them. It's a good point you make.:agree:

matty_f
21-09-2014, 05:58 PM
The players need to forget all about trying to win for the fans. They need to sort their heads out and try to regain some pride in their efforts .

:agree: They need to circle the wagons and get a bit of old fashioned (and clichéd) siege mentality about them. Start fighting and winning for each other first and foremost.


Good post Matty.

I was at the same neeting as you when the comment about loans was made. I'd really like to ask why that policy changed. Nothing against the loanees, one of whom has been something resembling a bright spot, but it's not the way forward. At that meeting LD stated she felt loans were 'poor value for money'. She then, bizzarely as a half hearted defence of our transfer policy, stated at the consulatation meetings the other week that loans aren't a cheap option.

It's a strange shift in policy that doesn't sit well with me and needs explained imo.

I think it's evident that we don't have the budget we need to bring in the number of players we needed. This particularly sticks in the throat when you consider the wealth of the owner.


I hope Paul Hanlon feels the same way. I would be looking to him. He should be strolling this league.

The acceptance and willingness to surrender points within this team is pathetic.

We have another reasonable gap between now and our next game being a Monday night. Let's see what can be done

Fraz, Hanlon is one who definitely has potential to be a leader, as does Forster IMHO. They need to know how to do it though and then be prepared to stick their heads above the parapet and actually do it.

truehibernian
21-09-2014, 05:58 PM
Good post Matty.

I was at the same neeting as you when the comment about loans was made. I'd really like to ask why that policy changed. Nothing against the loanees, one of whom has been something resembling a bright spot, but it's not the way forward. At that meeting LD stated she felt loans were 'poor value for money'. She then, bizzarely as a half hearted defence of our transfer policy, stated at the consulatation meetings the other week that loans aren't a cheap option.

It's a strange shift in policy that doesn't sit well with me and needs explained imo.

Until you know who goes PB, the spectre of him shall forever be cast as the reason for our failures.....I'm clear, he is still a major part of the club and I think still has a say.......he goes, the cloud lifts, the fans lift, galvanise and unite, and there is a football future.

While he remains, it eats away at the club. He has caused a great divide.

Alfred E Newman
21-09-2014, 06:06 PM
When you look at the team that played yesterday, that side is arguably worse or at least no better than last season. Ordinary players go and ordinary players come in. Players that let us down last season are fixtures in the team. Youngsters come in and very quickly are out again, none really setting the heather on fire. Thick skinned supporters who have endured nightmare after nightmare and still came back for more are throwing in the towel. What on earth is going on at the club, it's beyond me.

matty_f
21-09-2014, 06:14 PM
When you look at the team that played yesterday, that side is arguably worse or at least no better than last season. Ordinary players go and ordinary players come in. Players that let us down last season are fixtures in the team. Youngsters come in and very quickly are out again, none really setting the heather on fire. Thick skinned supporters who have endured nightmare after nightmare and still came back for more are throwing in the towel. What on earth is going on at the club, it's beyond me.

I think the midfield is better now, and we have more pace in the side than we did last year (which wasn't difficult, to be fair).

The back four and keeper are no better now than they were last year, and that's despite the addition of Gray.

Had El Alagui not been injured, I'd have said we'd improved up front as well, but he is, and we've not.:greengrin

Stubbs could do with picking his best eleven and letting them play a few games, even if we lose a couple. Team spirit is built by keeping a team together and letting players form relationships on the park with each other - learning their team-mates' games and mucking in together.

Constantly changing three, four, or five positions game to game doesn't allow for that, and is a sure fire way to let doubts over self-belief come in. Players need to know they're trusted by the manager, and not knowing week to week if you're in the team or even the squad doesn't lend itself to trust building.

Alfred E Newman
21-09-2014, 06:26 PM
I think the midfield is better now, and we have more pace in the side than we did last year (which wasn't difficult, to be fair).

The back four and keeper are no better now than they were last year, and that's despite the addition of Gray.

Had El Alagui not been injured, I'd have said we'd improved up front as well, but he is, and we've not.:greengrin

Stubbs could do with picking his best eleven and letting them play a few games, even if we lose a couple. Team spirit is built by keeping a team together and letting players form relationships on the park with each other - learning their team-mates' games and mucking in together.

Constantly changing three, four, or five positions game to game doesn't allow for that, and is a sure fire way to let doubts over self-belief come in. Players need to know they're trusted by the manager, and not knowing week to week if you're in the team or even the squad doesn't lend itself to trust building.
I don't agree about the mid field. I still think that is the main reason we struggle. Some new faces but more of the same. Little quality, powder puff , and smaller than average players easily shoved off the ball. Granted we have a bit more pace yet we still play the game at a snails pace.

majorhibs
21-09-2014, 06:43 PM
I think the midfield is better now, and we have more pace in the side than we did last year (which wasn't difficult, to be fair).

The back four and keeper are no better now than they were last year, and that's despite the addition of Gray.

Had El Alagui not been injured, I'd have said we'd improved up front as well, but he is, and we've not.:greengrin

Stubbs could do with picking his best eleven and letting them play a few games, even if we lose a couple. Team spirit is built by keeping a team together and letting players form relationships on the park with each other - learning their team-mates' games and mucking in together.

Constantly changing three, four, or five positions game to game doesn't allow for that, and is a sure fire way to let doubts over self-belief come in. Players need to know they're trusted by the manager, and not knowing week to week if you're in the team or even the squad doesn't lend itself to trust building.

Even if we lose a couple. I take it you werenae onboard for the last couple of "lower division" escapades? Lets all stop this crap! It is not acceptable for Hibs to be languishing in the lower reaches of Scotlands 2nd division, it is not acceptable that fans think any defeat is OK, & it is not acceptable that a football idiot like Rod Petrie is still allowed to be in charge of an organisation which is being run into the ground & oblivion at this rate, which at this moment in time to this observer seems to be spite because the supporters dared to question the running of the club & the decline & to me at least this chairman seems to want to give us pesky "Hibs Fans" a lesson by allowing the club to slide out of sight! We dont want to lose a couple of games, even 1 when your going for promotion (as long standing supporters will testify) can be crucial, but what this club really, really needs, is rid of the football imbecile that is Rod Petrie. But that idiots big head will mean that will not be easy. (Football imbecile = all the things football wise he has done- seriously- where in World Football could you find a record of destroying a Football Club as completeley as this football imbecile has?)