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View Full Version : Stubbs - At what point do the fingers start to point at him?



Forza Fred
21-09-2014, 09:34 AM
He inherited a mess, nobody can doubt that, but he brought his back room team in and a few players


Things have certainly not improved under his stewardship, and indeed have got worse

How long before the 'goodwill' shown to him currently, runs out?

HH81
21-09-2014, 09:36 AM
I thought the football played was better than under Butcher yesterday so he is trying to play the right way.

Give him time. Bet Hibs have a 2 year plan to get back up and he will have next year.

Forza Fred
21-09-2014, 09:39 AM
I thought the football played was better than under Butcher yesterday so he is trying to play the right way.

Give him time. Bet Hibs have a 2 year plan to get back up and he will have next year.

Fair enough, on the basis we don't get relegated THIS season!

Colr
21-09-2014, 09:53 AM
He inherited a mess, nobody can doubt that, but he brought his back room team in and a few players


Things have certainly not improved under his stewardship, and indeed have got worse

How long before the 'goodwill' shown to him currently, runs out?

We keep changing managers but things stay the same. Maybe the problems lie elsewhere. Who has been a constant in this slow motion car crash and has shown himself utterly devoid of an idea what to do? Who's time is up but refused to move on?

Forza Fred
21-09-2014, 09:58 AM
We keep changing managers but things stay the same. Maybe the problems lie elsewhere. Who has been a constant in this slow motion car crash and has shown himself utterly devoid of an idea what to do? Who's time is up but refused to move on?

No arguments about RP's involvement, but at some point surely the manager has to accept some responsibility for absolutely disgraceful results as did Butcher?

blackpoolhibs
21-09-2014, 10:04 AM
If you look at all his signings, Gray McGeouch and Kennedy look better than what we had, he's been unlucky with Aligui getting injured.

Yet after saying that, they might be better than what we had before, but on current form they are nowhere near good enough as a team to win the league, which was the initial aim. :faf:

I personally dont think they are remotely good enough to win any play off game should we even get in the top 4, which is another thing i highly doubt we will do at the moment.

So the team Stubbs has put together is not good enough, which is his job to do so.

Whether his budget is enough is another matter, and we all know where he gets that from?

smithy_hibees
21-09-2014, 10:11 AM
The problem is that the players/management are no better than ones that left/sacked! We are a laughing stock in Scottish football, no where near as big as we think sad but true! We've been run into the ground and don't have anyone at club can bring us back to live so to speak! More lows than highs ahead

wookie70
21-09-2014, 10:13 AM
He looks in panic mode. The team being chopped and changed every week and we are only 6 weeks or so into the campaign.He should now know his team and formation and stick by it for a few weeks. Butcher was the same. Too much focus on individual players and not enough on the team.

I would also say that part our problem is closing the opposition down. Part time teams seam able to out run us for large chunks of games. That is not acceptable and whoever is in charge of fitness and conditioning needs to sort it out. Double sessions need to be put in place now not necessarily for fitness but to show the team the club needs to react to the crisis.

HUTCHYHIBBY
21-09-2014, 10:13 AM
I thought the football played was better than under Butcher yesterday so he is trying to play the right way.

Give him time. Bet Hibs have a 2 year plan to get back up and he will have next year.

The mysterious 5 year plan certainly isnae going too well.

Hibernia&Alba
21-09-2014, 10:22 AM
All managers must accept responsibility for results, but if ever a manager was dealt a bad hand it was Stubbs. The poor guy inherited an absolute mess; a club drifting from one low to another for a good few years. In addition he has no experience to fall back upon. I pity him.

Nando™
21-09-2014, 10:30 AM
The problem is that the players/management are no better than ones that left/sacked! We are a laughing stock in Scottish football, no where near as big as we think sad but true! We've been run into the ground and don't have anyone at club can bring us back to live so to speak! More lows than highs ahead

We are exactly as big as we think, but we are being held down by the perennial anchor that is Rod Petrie.

emerald green
21-09-2014, 10:51 AM
Do I get the feeling that this sort of thread is the start of Hibs fans going down the path of "lets sack the manager"? If so, then we really are sunk.

The fingers should be pointed at those responsible for making one poor / disastrous appointment after another.

AS may well be struggling, but why did the board think a young inexperienced manager was going to be the man to sort out the mess the club was in following Butcher & Malpas' catastrophic tenure?

Furthermore, then to not make sufficient funds available to allow him to sign the standard of players needed to win this very difficult league at first time of asking? Presumably because the money was simply not there?

So, if AS is sacked, what then for HFC? Where is the money magically going to come from to obtain a top class experienced manager, allow him to sign several top class pros, and pay the new management teams salaries along with the salaries of those top class pros (even if they could be persuaded to come to this club, the mess it's in)?

Iain G
21-09-2014, 10:59 AM
Do I get the feeling that this sort of thread is the start of Hibs fans going down the path of "lets sack the manager"? If so, then we really are sunk.

The fingers should be pointed at those responsible for making one poor / disastrous appointment after another.

AS may well be struggling, but why did the board think a young inexperienced manager was going to be the man to sort out the mess the club was in following Butcher & Malpas' catastrophic tenure?

Furthermore, then to not make sufficient funds available to allow him to sign the standard of players needed to win this very difficult league at first time of asking? Presumably because the money was simply not there?

So, if AS is sacked, what then for HFC? Where is the money magically going to come from to obtain a top class experienced manager, allow him to sign several top class pros, and pay the new management teams salaries along with the salaries of those top class pros (even if they could be persuaded to come to this club, the mess it's in)?

Certainly we are not going to be sacking Alan Stubbs anytime soon, well, unless his record gets as bad as Sauzee then ya never know! :wink:

That squad should be good enough to finish in the top four and at least make the playoffs and they need to step it up and the coaches and management need to earn their money to make sure they do step it up.

Forza Fred
21-09-2014, 11:00 AM
Do I get the feeling that this sort of thread is the start of Hibs fans going down the path of "lets sack the manager"? If so, then we really are sunk.

The fingers should be pointed at those responsible for making one poor / disastrous appointment after another.

AS may well be struggling, but why did the board think a young inexperienced manager was going to be the man to sort out the mess the club was in following Butcher & Malpas' catastrophic tenure?

Furthermore, then to not make sufficient funds available to allow him to sign the standard of players needed to win this very difficult league at first time of asking? Presumably because the money was simply not there?

So, if AS is sacked, what then for HFC? Where is the money magically going to come from to obtain a top class experienced manager, allow him to sign several top class pros, and pay the new management teams salaries along with the salaries of those top class pros (even if they could be persuaded to come to this club, the mess it's in)?

Not suggesting that the manager gets sacked, but am surprised somewhat that the manager has so far copped little criticism for defeats by superpowers Alloa Athletic and Queen of the South, as well as our current league position.

Had we been top of the league no doubt there would be glowing praise.

I have for obvious reasons not seen any of our games in any detail.....bar the Hertz defeat which was on live here...hence my question.

For all I know we may be desperately unlucky, but that's not what I read.

Diclonius
21-09-2014, 11:03 AM
Stubbs will soon join Paatelainen, Hughes, Calderwood, Fenlon and Butcher as the next manager sacked, mutually consented or "resigned under pressure".

They can't all be bad, and if they are, surely we have removed whoever keeps employing them? Players don't perform, you lose your job. Managers don't perform, you ehhh WE'RE ALL IN THIS TOGETHER

Iain G
21-09-2014, 11:05 AM
Not suggesting that the manager gets sacked, but am surprised somewhat that the manager has so far copped little criticism for defeats by superpowers Alloa Athletic and Queen of the South, as well as our current league position.

Had we been top of the league no doubt there would be glowing praise.

I have for obvious reasons not seen any of our games in any detail.....bar the Hertz defeat which was on live here...hence my question.

For all I know we may be desperately unlucky, but that's not what I read.

It is early days in his tenure still, sounds like he is being given a bit of time to try and turn it around which he needs.

Lot of changes around the club take a bit of time to bed down and still half a team from last year who have the confidence levels of a very tiny timorous beastie that somehow needs to be rebuilt, if at all possible.

Losing El Alagui is a desperately bad slice of luck for the team as he seemed to be able to put the ball in the net.

emerald green
21-09-2014, 11:22 AM
Certainly we are not going to be sacking Alan Stubbs anytime soon, well, unless his record gets as bad as Sauzee then ya never know! :wink:

That squad should be good enough to finish in the top four and at least make the playoffs and they need to step it up and the coaches and management need to earn their money to make sure they do step it up.

I agree with what you are saying Iain, except the bit it bold. I have seen nothing yet to convince me this squad is good enough to make the top four.

Traditionally, Hibs teams perform better at the start of the season then fall away badly after Christmas / New Year. The signs so far are really ominous.

Hibs could easily be sitting on just 2 points had it not been for a flook goal from our goalkeeper against Livingston, and a scrambled last minute goal against part time Cowdenbeath, both at home.

I hope they prove me wrong.

emerald green
21-09-2014, 11:30 AM
Not suggesting that the manager gets sacked, but am surprised somewhat that the manager has so far copped little criticism for defeats by superpowers Alloa Athletic and Queen of the South, as well as our current league position.

Had we been top of the league no doubt there would be glowing praise.

I have for obvious reasons not seen any of our games in any detail.....bar the Hertz defeat which was on live here...hence my question.

For all I know we may be desperately unlucky, but that's not what I read.

I just think the fans are trying to give AS the benefit of the doubt FF, and maybe show a bit of patience as they see he is trying to get his team to play football the correct way. On the floor, not "hoofball". How long that will last remains to be seen.

Whether the squad he has at his disposal is good enough, I have serious doubts. Certainly not enough really good players to get promotion this season unless there is a miraculous turnaround in performances and results. There's simply no sign of that at the moment.

Just my opinion though.

J-C
21-09-2014, 11:41 AM
I don't care how much if a mess he inherited, those players in that squad should still be far better than teams like QOS and Alloa, he has to take a lot of the blame.

emerald green
21-09-2014, 11:44 AM
I don't care how much if a mess he inherited, those players in that squad should still be far better than teams like QOS and Alloa, he has to take a lot of the blame.

Clearly they are not. That's why they both beat Hibs.

DH1875
21-09-2014, 11:56 AM
If and at this stage of the game its still a big IF, are there folks on here who reckon Stubbs should keep his job IF we dont make top 4 :confused:

silverhibee
21-09-2014, 12:32 PM
Goal posts are being moved again.


No quick fix for Hibs. :confused:


http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/29301133

blackpoolhibs
21-09-2014, 12:36 PM
Goal posts are being moved again.


No quick fix for Hibs. :confused:


http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/29301133

Good, if they moved them about 60 feet higher than what they were yesterday, we'd all be talking about Malonga's terrific free kick.

TheFamous1875
21-09-2014, 12:41 PM
1 up top

subs too late

setting up incorrectly

players in wrong positions

squad unbalanced

lack of quality/leaders brought in


We need to assert ourselves in this league. Stubbs is inexperienced but has the right approach. He'll get better and so will the team as they gel. Need some hard arse leaders who're mentally strong in January, once Stubbs had familiarised himself with this league and knows where we're short. We need players who'll force a victory, like Gray v Dumbarton, but we need one in the middle and one at the back.

Scorrie
21-09-2014, 12:43 PM
I don't get what Stubbs says though about there being a lot of change from last season to this. In the back room staff maybe but not really on the pitch as we still have a number of last seasons duds. The problem is that there hasn't been enough change on the pitch

emerald green
21-09-2014, 12:57 PM
QOS first league win against Hibs in 50 years. That's how far this club has fallen.

I'm not holding Stubbs responsible for years of decline, but I'm sick and tired of the same old excuses, time after time, manager after manager.

silverhibee
21-09-2014, 01:04 PM
Good, if they moved them about 60 feet higher than what they were yesterday, we'd all be talking about Malonga's terrific free kick.

:tee hee:

Stop it G. :greengrin

stu in nottingham
21-09-2014, 01:07 PM
I suppose some might argue that Stubbs is proving to be exactly what we thought - a decent coach, especially with younger players but a rookie manager and one who is making mistakes. I don't blame him for that, he was invited to come and manage the club and gladly accepted, if there is to be blame then it yet again falls at the door of the people who employed him.

He seems a decent guy and a good football man, I hope he does well and turns things round. Pretty certain he has both arms tied behind his back though.

superfurryhibby
21-09-2014, 03:03 PM
My heart sank when Stubbs was appointed. Given the dire circumstances we are in, it seemed to indicate the lack of ambition at boardroom level. The budget option, Stubbs is on a hiding to nothing. We needed a proven coach. Mowbray would have been a reasonable choice, as would McLeish. Instead we got a rookie with no credentials to say that he was able to address the issues at the club.

Eternal Hibbie
21-09-2014, 03:52 PM
Goal posts are being moved again.


No quick fix for Hibs. :confused:


http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/29301133


Unbelievable ain't it, though it appears there can be a quick fix for the Hertz !!!

GreenLake
21-09-2014, 03:56 PM
From the knuckles.

happiehibbie
21-09-2014, 03:57 PM
what about we played three at the back and three up front i mean up front and not wing backs we play at a high tempo for more than 5 minutes as we do at the moment.

teams are playing 10 men behind the ball usually one up front so lets get in amongst them we can still be a passing team ! get the ball out wide where the space is down the flanks and get the crosses in. What am i saying this will never catch on stick with the 5 across the middle

TrinityHibby
21-09-2014, 03:58 PM
My heart sank when Stubbs was appointed. Given the dire circumstances we are in, it seemed to indicate the lack of ambition at boardroom level. The budget option, Stubbs is on a hiding to nothing. We needed a proven coach. Mowbray would have been a reasonable choice, as would McLeish. Instead we got a rookie with no credentials to say that he was able to address the issues at the club.
I agree. The board have decided promotion this year was going to be too big an ask and have therefore decided not to back the clear out required. Butcher, for all his well publicised failings quickly identified the problem in that the whole squad needed emptied to take the playing side forward. The board chose not to keep him or fund the changes required with the new manager. This is why stubbs is stuck with largely the same players who have let us down season after season. If you read between the lines in stubbs' interviews he uses phrases like ' I am very happy with the players I have signed' but cannot publically say what he thinks of the ones he inherited. We can only hope both hearts and rangers go up this season so we have a better chance of promotion against a ross county or st mirren as favourites. The problem the board will find is that even more supporters will have drifted away by then and season tickets will be at an all time low hence funding won't be there. The league table does not lie and like it or not we are of the standard of a lower league championship side.

neil7908
21-09-2014, 04:27 PM
Started already. Not saying he should be sacked but after losing yesterday and to Alloa, plus narrow victories over the likes of Dumbarton and Cowdenbeath mean the pressure is on.

Turkish Green
21-09-2014, 06:12 PM
Hibs were not prepared for relegation. The budget for 2014-2015 was approved by the board based on staying in the Premiership. On relegation Butcher tells players they can find new clubs then he goes on his holidays.

RP does nothing, passing the buck to LD who does not take her position until 1st June and it takes until 24th June to appoint AS.

I very much much doubt that Hibs (AS/LD/RP) had spent any time evaluating the pedigree of their competition in the Championship with the exception of TRFC and the yams who they probably thought were their main rivals.

Well what the 6 league games so far has shown is that the Hibs squad is not good enough. Will they improve as the season goes on? Maybe, but not sufficiently to win promotion through the play-offs.

My thoughts are that when they saw the squads put together by Rangers and Hearts, the Board
decided to save funds and wait until next season to obtain promotion. Surely, the Board believed that Hibs would compete with this lightweight squad?

matty_f
21-09-2014, 06:20 PM
Started already. Not saying he should be sacked but after losing yesterday and to Alloa, plus narrow victories over the likes of Dumbarton and Cowdenbeath mean the pressure is on.

I'm ****ed if I'm putting a manager under pressure for winning games.

Fair enough the defeats, but he beat Dumbarton and Cowdenbeath so they shouldn't be held against him.

jeffers
21-09-2014, 06:40 PM
Appointing a rookie manager was a gamble, appointing a rookie manager and asking him to sign a new team on the budget he's been given was a huge gamble - one that doesn't appear to be working at the moment.

AS seems like a decent guy and his philosophy about playing football on the deck is one I'm sure most of us would agree with but imo I think for such an experienced player he's been quite naive with the balance of the squad he has assembled. Matty's thread talks about leaders but imo that's been one of AS' big mistakes, as other than David Gray he hasn't signed anyone who comes close to being one. Of the players I have seen more than once all look to be decent footballers but in the division we are in you need more than that, you need players who are prepared to dig in and show a nasty streak where required - I don't like to refer to them but in signing Gomis and Bauben they built the core of a midfield with players who will do exactly that.

I also think getting rid of Nelson was a mistake (and I wouldn't have said that at the end of last season.) He had his failings no doubt but in this league he was the no-nonsense defender we are sorely lacking. Hanlon and Forster are decent enough defenders individually but are not a partnership that fills me with confidence. Nelson handled Sow very well in the last derby, I don't believe PH & JF will do the same in the next.

No doubt AS has taken on a huge task, but even with a budget that isn't as big as we'd want he should be doing a lot better. Bar a last minute winner against a tiring part-time team we'd be 2 points from being bottom of the league.

erskine-hibby
21-09-2014, 07:16 PM
Truly shocking statement from Stubbs. I'm not calling for his head, but if he doesn't think he is up to the task of getting us promoted, this season, he should resign. We all know that it will take a while to get us back to where we should be, but we need to get out of this league, this season.

Itsnoteasy
21-09-2014, 07:20 PM
He inherited a mess, nobody can doubt that, but he brought his back room team in and a few players


Things have certainly not improved under his stewardship, and indeed have got worse

How long before the 'goodwill' shown to him currently, runs out?

It could be worse, LVG has spent 150million and in bottom half of table.

Hibernia&Alba
21-09-2014, 07:24 PM
Truly shocking statement from Stubbs. I'm not calling for his head, but if he doesn't think he is up to the task of getting us promoted, this season, he should resign. We all know that it will take a while to get us back to where we should be, but we need to get out of this league, this season.

Yes we do, but Rangers and Hearts are much better than us, and we're n better than the rest. Relegation couldn't have happened at a worse time, due to the teams in the Championship with us.

erskine-hibby
21-09-2014, 07:24 PM
It could be worse, LVG has spent 150million and in bottom half of table.
Not a good comparison.

erskine-hibby
21-09-2014, 07:27 PM
Yes we do, but Rangers and Hearts are much better than us, and we're n better than the rest. Relegation couldn't have happened at a worse time, due to the teams in the Championship with us.

We shouldn't be, but if this acceptance and apathy prevails we could be here for a very long time. As for being the best of the rest, the league table says otherwise.

jacomo
21-09-2014, 07:29 PM
He inherited a mess, nobody can doubt that, but he brought his back room team in and a few players


Things have certainly not improved under his stewardship, and indeed have got worse

How long before the 'goodwill' shown to him currently, runs out?

I guess now, given that you and a few others have been falling over themselves to 'point the finger' at AS this weekend.

I've said this before - until the team on the pitch is sorted, everything else is a distraction. AS might be struggling, but he's not helped by a club hierarchy that seems perpetually focused on other things... fan representation on the Board being flavour of the month.

Sudds_1
21-09-2014, 07:31 PM
Do I get the feeling that this sort of thread is the start of Hibs fans going down the path of "lets sack the manager"? If so, then we really are sunk.

The fingers should be pointed at those responsible for making one poor / disastrous appointment after another.

AS may well be struggling, but why did the board think a young inexperienced manager was going to be the man to sort out the mess the club was in following Butcher & Malpas' catastrophic tenure?

Furthermore, then to not make sufficient funds available to allow him to sign the standard of players needed to win this very difficult league at first time of asking? Presumably because the money was simply not there?

So, if AS is sacked, what then for HFC? Where is the money magically going to come from to obtain a top class experienced manager, allow him to sign several top class pros, and pay the new management teams salaries along with the salaries of those top class pros (even if they could be persuaded to come to this club, the mess it's in)?

but it was......wasn't it? through overpriced season tickets many of us bought early. And the promise that it would all go to buy "quality over quantity!

...............hmmm.........

Hibernia&Alba
21-09-2014, 07:34 PM
We shouldn't be, but if this acceptance and apathy prevails we could be here for a very long time. As for being the best of the rest, the league table says otherwise.

Absolutely, my posts keep appearing with letters missing for some reason and I have to keep editing words. It should read "we're no better than the rest". I got the 'n' in!

Bostonhibby
21-09-2014, 07:37 PM
He's been tossed the same curved ball as most recent managers who walk into the Hibs job catch where Petrie has any influence - it seems a good place to be and build a reputation at, they get in and find out its not what they thought they were getting into ..............it's all about the funding and the players they inherit - the former is where I think the deception occurs but the whole thing gets progressively worse regardless while the non involved conduit remains.

Back to the original question - if recent history teaches us anything, turkeys don't vote for xmas so Stubbs better watch out for the date of the AGM as someone has to be blamed and its never the stewards of the club.

Personally I think he can do a job but time and finance wasn't on his side when he arrived. Managers come and go at ER, the conduit and complacency at board level remain however much the pack is shuffled by the conduit and STF.

SunshineOnLeith
21-09-2014, 07:43 PM
I think we have a choice, do we accept that we've got a young manager in his first job who's learning his trade and will make mistakes, and hope he comes good based on the fact he's trying to get us playing the right way etc, and seems to have an ability to address the weaknesses in the squad with his signings (thinking of Gray here). Or do we oust another manager from his job with the club in a situation no where we'd only probably be able to replace him with a similarly inexperienced manager.

Having said that, I do think there's some valid criticisms to be levied at Stubbs. Chief of which, for me, is that he came in and decided we'd play this 4-2-3-1 formation without actually considering if it suited the squad at his disposal, meaning we've had Liam Craig, Scott Robertson and Scott Allan all attempting to play as the 'defensive' midfielder in the 2, when none of them are suited to that role. I think that criticism can be mitigated by the fact that a lot of players were released before he got here, which is a shame because Tom Taiwo is exactly who our midfield is screaming out for.

We've been very unlucky in that, in order for this formation to work, we need a proper focal point upfront, and we had that with Farid, but without him there doesn't seem to be anyone else who can effectively play that role. I think we might need to take a step back, and just play a boring, old fashioned 4-4-2 in order to get the best out of Cummings for example, who clearly isn't a target man

Forza Fred
21-09-2014, 08:26 PM
I think we have a choice, do we accept that we've got a young manager in his first job who's learning his trade and will make mistakes, and hope he comes good based on the fact he's trying to get us playing the right way etc, and seems to have an ability to address the weaknesses in the squad with his signings (thinking of Gray here). Or do we oust another manager from his job with the club in a situation no where we'd only probably be able to replace him with a similarly inexperienced manager.

Having said that, I do think there's some valid criticisms to be levied at Stubbs. Chief of which, for me, is that he came in and decided we'd play this 4-2-3-1 formation without actually considering if it suited the squad at his disposal, meaning we've had Liam Craig, Scott Robertson and Scott Allan all attempting to play as the 'defensive' midfielder in the 2, when none of them are suited to that role. I think that criticism can be mitigated by the fact that a lot of players were released before he got here, which is a shame because Tom Taiwo is exactly who our midfield is screaming out for.

We've been very unlucky in that, in order for this formation to work, we need a proper focal point upfront, and we had that with Farid, but without him there doesn't seem to be anyone else who can effectively play that role. I think we might need to take a step back, and just play a boring, old fashioned 4-4-2 in order to get the best out of Cummings for example, who clearly isn't a target man

Thank you SOL for your analysis.

I tend to agree with your line of thought.

However I do believe that in the harsh footballing environment that ALL managers must accept before signing on the dotted line, he better get a couple of victories from somewhere, anywhere, soon, for everybody's sake.

Sir David Gray
21-09-2014, 10:03 PM
Hibs were not prepared for relegation. The budget for 2014-2015 was approved by the board based on staying in the Premiership. On relegation Butcher tells players they can find new clubs then he goes on his holidays.

RP does nothing, passing the buck to LD who does not take her position until 1st June and it takes until 24th June to appoint AS.

I very much much doubt that Hibs (AS/LD/RP) had spent any time evaluating the pedigree of their competition in the Championship with the exception of TRFC and the yams who they probably thought were their main rivals.

Well what the 6 league games so far has shown is that the Hibs squad is not good enough. Will they improve as the season goes on? Maybe, but not sufficiently to win promotion through the play-offs.

My thoughts are that when they saw the squads put together by Rangers and Hearts, the Board
decided to save funds and wait until next season to obtain promotion. Surely, the Board believed that Hibs would compete with this lightweight squad?

:agree: Yep.

Although our form from January onwards should have been enough for those running the club to at least contemplate relegation as a possibility, I don't think anyone in the boardroom seriously thought that we were going to be relegated until the moment Jason Cummings missed that penalty against Hamilton and it was all confirmed.

I wouldn't have expected the club to come out publicly and state that they were preparing for relegation but we should have had a plan in place in case that happened. Perhaps we did but all the evidence that we're seeing now would suggest that wasn't the case.

We are light years away from where we should be. I don't blame Alan Stubbs, he's just the latest in a long line of people who's a fall guy for the incompetent people who are allegedly running the club.

It's a change in ownership that we need. Until that happens, I don't see anything changing for the better.

blackpoolhibs
21-09-2014, 10:31 PM
I'd agree with the point about us not being prepared for relegation, but we rarely seem prepared for any situation we find ourselves in. And thats a direct result of the clowns that own and run the club.

The_Horde
22-09-2014, 12:19 AM
Anybody who still believes this is all down the management teams needs their head sorted out.

The malaise at hibs is not going to be turned around quickly. It's going to be a slow process getting our club back on track as there's a list the length of leith walk of things wrong with it internally. The biggest of them being Rod (but that's for another thread).

Stubbs and the new back room staff need time to put their stamp on hibs. This isn't going to be an overnight process, it'll be slow and probably painful.

At the weekend over half of the team were new signings. (Including full debuts for our strikers)

Most of which didn't exactly have a full pre season together. The squad was only completed the other week there and could potentially still be incomplete if the Griffiths rumours are true.

So they haven't played a lot of matches together, they've not had time to get used to each other's games or build team spirit.

We're so far behind the yams and huns because of this. The reason for this was the lengthy delay in the sacking of Butcher and the delay in hiring Stubbs.

Stubbs had to use pre season to take scope of what he had, find out who he could rely on and who he couldn't and then bring in suitable replacements/additions to the squad. Which is an extremely tough ask, you only really find out who you can rely on in competitive matches.

The stage we're at now is the stage we should've been at in pre season, allowing the team get used to each other and adjust to how Stubbs wants them to play.

Stubbs has been dealt a horrible hand. You absolutely can't blame him. It is 100% down to the board.

The only way things are going to improve is if Stubbs and his back room staff are supported by everyone. From the fans right through the players and the board.

But what we really need first is Rod to do one and someone who demands high standards at all times to come in.

HoboHarry
22-09-2014, 01:43 AM
;4178250']Anybody who still believes this is all down the management teams needs their head sorted out.

The malaise at hibs is not going to be turned around quickly. It's going to be a slow process getting our club back on track as there's a list the length of leith walk of things wrong with it internally. The biggest of them being Rod (but that's for another thread).

Stubbs and the new back room staff need time to put their stamp on hibs. This isn't going to be an overnight process, it'll be slow and probably painful.

At the weekend over half of the team were new signings. (Including full debuts for our strikers)

Most of which didn't exactly have a full pre season together. The squad was only completed the other week there and could potentially still be incomplete if the Griffiths rumours are true.

So they haven't played a lot of matches together, they've not had time to get used to each other's games or build team spirit.

We're so far behind the yams and huns because of this. The reason for this was the lengthy delay in the sacking of Butcher and the delay in hiring Stubbs.

Stubbs had to use pre season to take scope of what he had, find out who he could rely on and who he couldn't and then bring in suitable replacements/additions to the squad. Which is an extremely tough ask, you only really find out who you can rely on in competitive matches.

The stage we're at now is the stage we should've been at in pre season, allowing the team get used to each other and adjust to how Stubbs wants them to play.

Stubbs has been dealt a horrible hand. You absolutely can't blame him. It is 100% down to the board.

The only way things are going to improve is if Stubbs and his back room staff are supported by everyone. From the fans right through the players and the board.

But what we really need first is Rod to do one and someone who demands high standards at all times to come in.

What a welcome relief to see a sensible post. Expect to be shouted down soon though.....

GreenLake
22-09-2014, 02:04 AM
What a welcome relief to see a sensible post. Expect to be shouted down soon though.....

I agree, but I don't see much to shout down in there.

HoboHarry
22-09-2014, 02:07 AM
I agree, but I don't see much to shout down in there.
This thread is about trying to decide when it is time to blame AS. Utter nonsense of a suggestion but there it is....

GreenLake
22-09-2014, 04:21 AM
This thread is about trying to decide when it is time to blame AS. Utter nonsense of a suggestion but there it is....

Agreed.

H18Y GW
22-09-2014, 05:29 AM
Moyes and Van Gall have thrown 300m at a team left woefully short by Ferguson,I don't see them blaming Van Gall and they expect to win things

Forza Fred
22-09-2014, 06:03 AM
This thread is about trying to decide when it is time to blame AS. Utter nonsense of a suggestion but there it is....

No, not exactly.

So he bears no blame for defeats against Alloa and Queen of the South.

And if we lose the next 4 on the trot, he bears no blame either?

Surely at SOME point if results don't improve he's going to carry some responsibility?

No?

That was what the post was asking.......When does his get out of jail for free card expire??

Ronniekirk
22-09-2014, 06:15 AM
1 up top

subs too late

setting up incorrectly

players in wrong positions

squad unbalanced

lack of quality/leaders brought in


We need to assert ourselves in this league. Stubbs is inexperienced but has the right approach. He'll get better and so will the team as they gel. Need some hard arse leaders who're mentally strong in January, once Stubbs had familiarised himself with this league and knows where we're short. We need players who'll force a victory, like Gray v Dumbarton, but we need one in the middle and one at the back.
All sounds familiarity depressing and where we were before Stubbs came in.By January we will struggle to bring anyone in due to Finances and league position .

hibbiedon
22-09-2014, 06:34 AM
What worries me most is that new managers arrive, full of enthusiasm, talk a good game then within about a month seem to lose their sparkle. Is there still a major problem behind the scenes

Nutmegged
22-09-2014, 06:47 AM
If you look at all his signings, Gray McGeouch and Kennedy look better than what we had, he's been unlucky with Aligui getting injured.

Yet after saying that, they might be better than what we had before, but on current form they are nowhere near good enough as a team to win the league, which was the initial aim. :faf:

I personally dont think they are remotely good enough to win any play off game should we even get in the top 4, which is another thing i highly doubt we will do at the moment.

So the team Stubbs has put together is not good enough, which is his job to do so.

Whether his budget is enough is another matter, and we all know where he gets that from?

I disagree with you maye about the "initial aim"...I dont believe anyone at Hibs genuinely felt we could win the league this season and throwing money at a Play-Off place with no gaurantee of going up would have been too risky financially - For me the "initial aim" from Hibs was always to be coached well enough to land in the Play-Off's with more hope than expectation of going up then next season with Hearts and Rangers out the league to then have a real go at winning the Championship with no big team as competition, although the 2 Premiership teams who'd drop would inevitably become major competition I think Rod and Leeann know they wouldn't hold the threat financially or psychologically as the Yams and Sevco

Phil D. Rolls
22-09-2014, 07:37 AM
We keep changing managers but things stay the same. Maybe the problems lie elsewhere. Who has been a constant in this slow motion car crash and has shown himself utterly devoid of an idea what to do? Who's time is up but refused to move on?

Whose moustache covers too much of his face, and who ate all the pies?

Rod - you are the weakest link. Goodbye. ;)

blackpoolhibs
22-09-2014, 08:24 AM
I disagree with you maye about the "initial aim"...I dont believe anyone at Hibs genuinely felt we could win the league this season and throwing money at a Play-Off place with no gaurantee of going up would have been too risky financially - For me the "initial aim" from Hibs was always to be coached well enough to land in the Play-Off's with more hope than expectation of going up then next season with Hearts and Rangers out the league to then have a real go at winning the Championship with no big team as competition, although the 2 Premiership teams who'd drop would inevitably become major competition I think Rod and Leeann know they wouldn't hold the threat financially or psychologically as the Yams and Sevco

Are you saying we have been lied to?

Ronniekirk
22-09-2014, 08:31 AM
I disagree with you maye about the "initial aim"...I dont believe anyone at Hibs genuinely felt we could win the league this season and throwing money at a Play-Off place with no gaurantee of going up would have been too risky financially - For me the "initial aim" from Hibs was always to be coached well enough to land in the Play-Off's with more hope than expectation of going up then next season with Hearts and Rangers out the league to then have a real go at winning the Championship with no big team as competition, although the 2 Premiership teams who'd drop would inevitably become major competition I think Rod and Leeann know they wouldn't hold the threat financially or psychologically as the Yams and Sevco
But it's not just hearts and Sevco that are beating us it's well organised part time sides with honest professionals showing some passion for the club and some dig and self belief and that will be the same next season so let's not fall into the it will be alright next season trap when our two main rivals will have been promoted .

I hate to say it but Hearts have now made the template of how to spend outwith your means ,win things ,time going Into Administration to perfection ,after blooding a team of youngsters that have belief ,some natural talent that gets nurtured , but who can scrap as well , time coming out of admin to perfection , find a buyer with money ,but get the fans sympathy and mobilise them to buy season tickets and fund raise , choose the right new Backroom team etc etc .
Tin hat firmly on ,but they are clearly doing something's right and we aren't . They are now reaping the rewards and we aren't . But I would still rather be a Hibby

Lago
22-09-2014, 08:58 AM
Watch Stubbs after match interview and frankly he did not impress me at all. Seems at a loss to explain current situation.

Ringothedog
22-09-2014, 09:19 AM
Watch Stubbs after match interview and frankly he did not impress me at all. Seems at a loss to explain current situation.

I agree, i sadly do not think he is up to the job. I understand the feeling that Petrie should leave but does anybody actually believe that it would make any difference to our results. This is the worst Hibs team I have seen in my lifetime. There is no passion, pace, pride, fight or leadership.

J-C
22-09-2014, 09:32 AM
We've went the same route as we did with Mowbray, a young up and coming coach who had a decent rep as a player, it worked once and now we have LD we don't need a manager as such as she will deal with all the transfers.

The players in that team should be capable of getting the required results, they are a hell of a lot better in quality compared to the last year or so, you must agree that McGeough/Allan/Kennedy/Gray etc are better. This then begs the question what is actally happening to these players when they arrive at ER, it's been a constant for years, good players arrive and withing a month or so they turn into crap.

Are they getting soft??

Is it all too easy for them at the comfy East Mains ??

What is actually going on behind the scenes at ER ??

Is it another cheap and chearful appointment which again hasn't worked out ??

eastcoasthibby
22-09-2014, 09:53 AM
I certainly would not advocate for Stubbs to go, I think his coaching shall pay dividends over a longer period but it has to be with the right players who have potential to develop and a lot of what we have does not have that capacity and doesn't seem to have the desire to improve, they seem to think they have made it and don't need to work harder !! For whatever there is a distinct difference between the attitudes of all other teams players and a lot of ours, they have a hunger, drive, high work rate, ...suppose in general just seem to want to play for the jersey and get a result whatever it takes from them individually.

Regards Stubbs, I think there are and have been some glaring errors in his judgement so far and from these you always look to him to learn from that and progress, not sure there is much evidence of this, with regards to team selection, shape, tactic's, and motivation. I agree that chopping and changing the team around does not help with confidence and knowing each other's game, but you do need to challenge those that are not delivering to get their act together or they lose their place.

In my view our biggest problem has been not to put in place a strong backbone to the team, no strong central defenders or central midfielders most teams develop the rest of their game around having these in place, add to this no natural leaders on the park and I believe crux of our problem sits there in respect of results. This is not a new phenomena, yet we are into our third management team and it has not been addressed.
I realise that Stubbs did not have the right time to perhaps address this but he seems to have chosen the route of bringing in more attacking players and left a void in anyone who can ball win/ break up play/ tackle, defend ... can't play without the ball !!!! If Stubbs thinks that our 3 main central defenders are good enough and that any central midfield mix is strong enough to control games and get results that shall take us up, then I am questioning his judgement, I would hope that his scouting process is geared around getting players in to fill these roles and a goalkeeper (permanent).
While stating this, I do blame this mess on Petrie and his puppets on the Board and to an extent LD, they have mismanaged this club financially over the past couple of years in particular, they have misspent, made woeful decisions, deluded themselves and ignored the warnings signs of the fans detachment and mistrust of their actions. They think they can keep lying and misleading fans taking our money and not being accountable for how it's spent and yes LD it's still happening, Hamilton 700 season tickets v Hibs 7000, how come we struggle financially with 10 times the revenue stream ?? at least ?
Anyway back to Stubbs I like his style of play, he needs to invoke his learning into each game, this is a hard league in every sense !! on paper we have quality but a problem is they are WEAK in the tackle and mentally !!!

neil7908
22-09-2014, 10:01 AM
I'm ****ed if I'm putting a manager under pressure for winning games.

Fair enough the defeats, but he beat Dumbarton and Cowdenbeath so they shouldn't be held against him.

Maybe a tad harsh, I suppose your right and I wouldn't criticise him for winning but the way we had to squeeze past teams made up of part time players hasn't filled me with confidence. Not suggesting we should be beating everyone by 3-4 goals but at home having to be bailed out by last minute goals to beat semi professional teams worries me. If we'd won the rest of our games I wouldn't be thinking twice about it though, just small piece of the general unease and concern I'm feeling for the club this season.

emerald green
22-09-2014, 11:13 AM
but it was......wasn't it? through overpriced season tickets many of us bought early. And the promise that it would all go to buy "quality over quantity!

...............hmmm.........

I really don't know mate. The finances at HFC are a mystery to me TBH. The club certainly don't appear to have spent hugely on new players considering the number of so called players who have left the club.

Money would of course still have had to be found to continue paying Butcher & Malpas (& Marsella too?). Gross mismanagement IMO.

NAE NOOKIE
22-09-2014, 11:39 AM
Not going to start gunning for AS until there just isn't any justification to do otherwise. We just cant keep sacking managers.

Having said that ... there is no excuse for our pathetic start to the season and AS is going to have to learn fast. I'm not in panic mode yet regarding making the top 4 and a play off place.

I never thought we could win this league .... but failure to make the play offs would be an utter disgrace and totally unacceptable.

Nutmegged
22-09-2014, 01:39 PM
Are you saying we have been lied to?

I'm saying we might say we're aiming for Promotion but due to the competiton this year in the division I don't think we did all we could to make it happen and I fully believe that was a conscious decision made by the club due to said competition

blackpoolhibs
22-09-2014, 01:45 PM
I'm saying we might say we're aiming for Promotion but due to the competiton this year in the division I don't think we did all we could to make it happen and I fully believe that was a conscious decision made by the club due to said competition

The losers mentality the club has comes right from the top. :rolleyes:

So in reality we were not trying to win the league, and perhaps not really going after quality rather than quantity. Maybe this explains why folk don't take what ANYONE at the clubs says that serious these days, because what they say and what they mean are never the same.

Forza Fred
22-09-2014, 02:18 PM
I'm saying we might say we're aiming for Promotion but due to the competiton this year in the division I don't think we did all we could to make it happen and I fully believe that was a conscious decision made by the club due to said competition

We'll get no parachute money next season so we will struggle to find the money for players who can beatQqueen of the South and Alloa, never mind the two premier League sides that come down.

ancient hibee
22-09-2014, 02:46 PM
The losers mentality the club has comes right from the top. :rolleyes:

So in reality we were not trying to win the league, and perhaps not really going after quality rather than quantity. Maybe this explains why folk don't take what ANYONE at the clubs says that serious these days, because what they say and what they mean are never the same.

So first we invent a scenario for which there is no evidence then we criticise the club for not trying to win the league for which again there is no evidence and then we say that they're all liars again with no evidence and these all become Hibs.net FACTS.I think I've got that now thanks.

Nutmegged
22-09-2014, 03:24 PM
We'll get no parachute money next season so we will struggle to find the money for players who can beatQqueen of the South and Alloa, never mind the two premier League sides that come down.

We're a fickle bunch, we are so desperate for success that we'll turn any kind of positive into something much bigger than it actually is, we could sneak into the Play-Offs on week 36, a position that should be secured by week 30 IMO but if we sneak into it and then go out at the semi or final stage some will hail it as glorious failure and a great 2nd half of the season, then with the likelihood of no Yam or Sevco more fans will believe we have a much bettwr chance, we'll also have around 8k minumum at games and if we start doing well that'll rise to 10k+...it would make next season all or nothing tho'


I think the club can sense that we'll do just about anything if we can sniff any hope of improvement and they play on it

blackpoolhibs
22-09-2014, 05:35 PM
So first we invent a scenario for which there is no evidence then we criticise the club for not trying to win the league for which again there is no evidence and then we say that they're all liars again with no evidence and these all become Hibs.net FACTS.I think I've got that now thanks.

There have been statements from the clubs officials, telling us fans that we were going to sign quality over quantity, and that we were going for the title, promotion at first time of asking.

Now after the dust has settled, and players have come and gone, it's clear we are no better than what we were last season.

So in summary, it was all bollox as usual.

jacomo
22-09-2014, 11:03 PM
I certainly would not advocate for Stubbs to go, I think his coaching shall pay dividends over a longer period but it has to be with the right players who have potential to develop and a lot of what we have does not have that capacity and doesn't seem to have the desire to improve, they seem to think they have made it and don't need to work harder !! For whatever there is a distinct difference between the attitudes of all other teams players and a lot of ours, they have a hunger, drive, high work rate, ...suppose in general just seem to want to play for the jersey and get a result whatever it takes from them individually.

Regards Stubbs, I think there are and have been some glaring errors in his judgement so far and from these you always look to him to learn from that and progress, not sure there is much evidence of this, with regards to team selection, shape, tactic's, and motivation. I agree that chopping and changing the team around does not help with confidence and knowing each other's game, but you do need to challenge those that are not delivering to get their act together or they lose their place.

In my view our biggest problem has been not to put in place a strong backbone to the team, no strong central defenders or central midfielders most teams develop the rest of their game around having these in place, add to this no natural leaders on the park and I believe crux of our problem sits there in respect of results. This is not a new phenomena, yet we are into our third management team and it has not been addressed.
I realise that Stubbs did not have the right time to perhaps address this but he seems to have chosen the route of bringing in more attacking players and left a void in anyone who can ball win/ break up play/ tackle, defend ... can't play without the ball !!!! If Stubbs thinks that our 3 main central defenders are good enough and that any central midfield mix is strong enough to control games and get results that shall take us up, then I am questioning his judgement, I would hope that his scouting process is geared around getting players in to fill these roles and a goalkeeper (permanent).
While stating this, I do blame this mess on Petrie and his puppets on the Board and to an extent LD, they have mismanaged this club financially over the past couple of years in particular, they have misspent, made woeful decisions, deluded themselves and ignored the warnings signs of the fans detachment and mistrust of their actions. They think they can keep lying and misleading fans taking our money and not being accountable for how it's spent and yes LD it's still happening, Hamilton 700 season tickets v Hibs 7000, how come we struggle financially with 10 times the revenue stream ?? at least ?
Anyway back to Stubbs I like his style of play, he needs to invoke his learning into each game, this is a hard league in every sense !! on paper we have quality but a problem is they are WEAK in the tackle and mentally !!!

Good summary of the situation.

We lack a solid core, a proper leader and experience. Some of the players brought in this summer look good but they are mostly kids who play in attacking positions.

AS needs support. What is this much-vaunted new football hierarchy doing?

Keith_M
30-09-2014, 09:49 AM
.....

How long before the 'goodwill' shown to him currently, runs out?


Dunno, you tell us.



:wink:

jacomo
30-09-2014, 02:57 PM
Dunno, you tell us.



:wink:

Draft "Stubbs never a manager, GTF etc etc etc" post left on shelf for another week.