Butcher getting paid for a year

[AlbertK86]

Hat useless tool on SSN said when asked what he was doing now that he was on paid gardening leave and that his contract/pay is honoured for a year

When the presenter asked him about being a favourite for the Ross County job he said he couldn't get involved with other clubs due to the conditions of the gardening leave

Smug as anything and sounds like he's more than happy to sit the year out growing vegetables and watching his beloved Ipswich.

Presume it's a similar deal for his sidekick mr Mo angry Malpas

Horrible drain on our funds

cheers KING ROD ... Another fine bit of business

[Michael]

Nae class.

[hibee92]

Hat useless tool on SSN said when asked what he was doing now that he was on paid gardening leave and that his contract/pay is honoured for a year

When the presenter asked him about being a favourite for the Ross County job he said he couldn't get involved with other clubs due to the conditions of the gardening leave

Smug as anything and sounds like he's more than happy to sit the year out growing vegetables and watching his beloved Ipswich.

Presume it's a similar deal for his sidekick mr Mo angry Malpas

Horrible drain on our funds

cheers KING ROD ... Another fine bit of business

The majority wanted Butcher. Hardly Rod's fault he was so bad. I'm by no means a Petrie fan but was he to expect it to go so horribly wrong?

[grunt]

I seem to remember most of this forum being pretty pleased that Rod had managed to get Butcher and his team.
Good bit of revisionism going on now.

[J-C]

The majority wanted Butcher. Hardly Rod's fault he was so bad. I'm by no means a Petrie fan but was he to expect it to go so horribly wrong?

There should've been a relegation clause put into the contract, another massive mistake by Rod.

[Greencore]

Hat useless tool on SSN said when asked what he was doing now that he was on paid gardening leave and that his contract/pay is honoured for a year

When the presenter asked him about being a favourite for the Ross County job he said he couldn't get involved with other clubs due to the conditions of the gardening leave

Smug as anything and sounds like he's more than happy to sit the year out growing vegetables and watching his beloved Ipswich.

Presume it's a similar deal for his sidekick mr Mo angry Malpas

Horrible drain on our funds

cheers KING ROD ... Another fine bit of business

He might have signed a contract with us. But people sign on the dole and would get dogs abuse if they admitted they sit back and get free money because that is what is happening here.

So I say...

DOSSER.

[hibee92]

There should've been a relegation clause put into the contract, another massive mistake by Rod.

That's a fair point.

[RoYO!]

I was talking to a friend about this at the game. If half the stories are true about him grabbing players by the throat etc then could they not just have punted him as a breech of contract- on professionalism/ assault grounds!

[Kato]

The majority wanted Butcher.

Did they? If they did it's a daft way to process the assignment of a very important post. He should have learned his lesson from the time "the majority" wanted Hughes.

[Tyler Durden]

I seem to remember most of this forum being pretty pleased that Rod had managed to get Butcher and his team.
Good bit of revisionism going on now.

I don't think that's accurate but it's irrelevant what the majority of a fans forum want. Petrie has failed time and again, costing us millions in the process.

Butcher's record wasn't scrutinised and there was obviously no thought to Hibs identity. As with Calderwood and Fenlon, there was no interest in whether they even had a football philosophy.

Entirely Petrie's fault.

[hibs4thecup1988]

Did they? If they did it's a daft way to process the assignment of a very important post. He should have learned his lesson from the time "the majority" wanted Hughes.

Yes, and it seemed the correct appointment at the time!! Nobody can deny that in my book

I cringe when I see him on SSN.

Surely gardening leave is exactly that...GARDENING LEAVE!? How can he work for SSN??

[oneone73]

The majority wanted Butcher. Hardly Rod's fault he was so bad. I'm by no means a Petrie fan but was he to expect it to go so horribly wrong?

Not really the fans' job to carry out due diligence. It was Petrie's.

[Spudster]

I can't understand how we couldn't be lawfully dismissed with zero severance. All the evidence needed was the league table.

[munchar]

Hat useless tool on SSN said when asked what he was doing now that he was on paid gardening leave and that his contract/pay is honoured for a year

When the presenter asked him about being a favourite for the Ross County job he said he couldn't get involved with other clubs due to the conditions of the gardening leave

Smug as anything and sounds like he's more than happy to sit the year out growing vegetables and watching his beloved Ipswich.

Presume it's a similar deal for his sidekick mr Mo angry Malpas

Horrible drain on our funds

cheers KING ROD ... Another fine bit of business

If we are still paying him and he is quite happy to sit back and do sweet f.a., why not have him in doing something? Doesn't matter what, as long as it is football related so as he can't go down the constructive dismissal route.

[Argylehibby]

I was talking to a friend about this at the game. If half the stories are true about him grabbing players by the throat etc then could they not just have punted him as a breech of contract- on professionalism/ assault grounds!

To do that the club would have to have taken at the time not after the end of season.

[lucky]

There should've been a relegation clause put into the contract, another massive mistake by Rod.

Hope LD has one in Stubbs contract:wink:

[Hibbyradge]

Well done the board if we're only paying them one year's compo, and in installments at that.

Butcher's class showed if he admitted he'd rather take our cash for doing nowt rather than be gainfully employed for a lesser sum at Ross County

I'm surprisingly pleased at these revelations.

[Hibbyradge]

If we are still paying him and he is quite happy to sit back and do sweet f.a., why not have him in doing something? Doesn't matter what, as long as it is football related so as he can't go down the constructive dismissal route.

Do you really want such a toxic individual anywhere near ER?

[jacomo]

The majority wanted Butcher. Hardly Rod's fault he was so bad. I'm by no means a Petrie fan but was he to expect it to go so horribly wrong?


I seem to remember most of this forum being pretty pleased that Rod had managed to get Butcher and his team.
Good bit of revisionism going on now.

I've never met Butcher. I'm guessing most Hibs fans haven't either. From the outside, based on his results at ICT, he seemed like the right man for the job.

Presumably Petrie et al interviewed him and asked him about his football philosophy etc? Presumably - as this was such a key appointment - they did research, talked to people who'd worked with him etc?

Just another wrong appointment in the end. Petrie should take full responsibility - that comes with the job.

[DC_Hibs]

due diligence.

BINGO......

wikipedia search and a look at the league table aren't enough as our managerial recruitment policy shows

[basehibby]

I was very pleased when Butcher, Malpas et al were appointed - history has proven me to be very very wrong. But I find it surprising not to say disgusting that they seem to be happy to sit back and leech off us - because make no mistake it's the Hibs fans who are paying for their extended hiatus - the very people who they let down so patheticaly and so completely. I had thought Butcher and Malpas were guys with a bit of class about them but they are behaving like shameless parasites here :fuming:

[LioNeilMessi]

Did they? If they did it's a daft way to process the assignment of a very important post. He should have learned his lesson from the time "the majority" wanted Hughes.

Yogi was not a bad appointment and is actually he is proving to be a good manager at Inverness. It was unfair to judge Yogi with that 2010/2011 squad after selling Stokes and only being allowed to buy in cheap and poor players (Degraaf, Dickoh, Trakys etc).

[JIm]

Probably a larger. List than people realise. Scott Thomson..........just another one still being paid

[Hibbyradge]

BINGO......

wikipedia search and a look at the league table aren't enough as our managerial recruitment policy shows

Due diligence? Bingo?

Seriously?

Due diligence?

[Spike Mandela]

He had **** to work with as Alan Stubbs is finding out now with the 'old guard', he never brought in any of his own players and couldn't stop the downward spiral but was unlucky that our ****roopers couldn't hold out for a further 20 seconds.

If Butcher had managed to survive by the skin of his teeth he would have dumped the deadwood, brought in the players Marsella had been working on for Premiership and we would be in quite a good place just now.

Last season was an absolute disaster for Hibs and for Butchers career but anyone would have been up against it with the team we had assembled.

[bigwheel]

I've never met Butcher. I'm guessing most Hibs fans haven't either. From the outside, based on his results at ICT, he seemed like the right man for the job.

Presumably Petrie et al interviewed him and asked him about his football philosophy etc? Presumably - as this was such a key appointment - they did research, talked to people who'd worked with him etc?

Just another wrong appointment in the end. Petrie should take full responsibility - that comes with the job.

Interestingly, I heard (from someone there )that in the board meeting after Fenlon left , there wasn't a short list, or a selection process...one of the members proposed Butcher, he was unanimously agreed as the preferred candidate . They chose to pursue him and him alone and got their man ...there was no deep analysis on this appointment - and boy have we suffered as a result !

[J-C]

Yogi was not a bad appointment and is actually he is proving to be a good manager at Inverness. It was unfair to judge Yogi with that 2010/2011 squad after selling Stokes and only being allowed to buy in cheap and poor players (Degraaf, Dickoh, Trakys etc).

Seen scenarios like this all too often at ER, seel and buy cheap and we wonder why we're down a league and in turmoil.

[munchar]

Do you really want such a toxic individual anywhere near ER?

In an ideal world, Definately not. But if he's sitting in his back garden puffing a large Cuban, and by the sound of it , being very smug, then I would certainly let him earn his wages.

[mca]

Judging By Petrie`s Grin at the End of the Accies Game - Butcher and Co are Being Paid to Keep their Mouths SHUT !!! :wink:

Collins and CC were paid off - as was Pat... I think.... hhhmmm

[Hibbyradge]

In an ideal world, Definately not. But if he's sitting in his back garden puffing a large Cuban, and by the sound of it , being very smug, then I would certainly let him earn his wages.

So you'd sacrifice an ideal world for your spite?

We sacked him. He can be as smug to the cameras as he likes, but he's not in front of them so much these days.

We did that. :smug:

[Nailrodders]

At the time of the Butcher appointment I was against it on principle. To me the whole thing stank of Old Firmery - Hey we're krap I know instead of developing our own guy let's find a smaller club with less resources than us and hoy their manager hey while we're at it let's hoy the whole management team as well hey job done...

But if I hadn't been opposed to it on principle I would have been opposed to it on common sense grounds. There are maybe two managers on the planet who have a consistent record of success. The other 99.99% have careers like yoyos. The idea that you can bring a guy in and have any level of confidence that he'll repeat any previous success is a total gamble. And Butcher's career wasn't even a yoyo - it was one of these flatlining ECGs in a TV hospital series that suddenly give a blip before they die.

I shudder to think how many hundreds of thousands of pounds the whole Butcher fiasco will have cost us by the time it's played out. Only a complete idiot would have thought it was a sensible idea for a club with Hibs' meagre resources to bet the farm on a guy with a record like Butcher's...

Step forward, The Great Helmsman.

[Jonnyboy]

At the time of the Butcher appointment I was against it on principle. To me the whole thing stank of Old Firmery - Hey we're krap I know instead of developing our own guy let's find a smaller club with less resources than us and hoy their manager hey while we're at it let's hoy the whole management team as well hey job done...

But if I hadn't been opposed to it on principle I would have been opposed to it on common sense grounds. There are maybe two managers on the planet who have a consistent record of success. The other 99.99% have careers like yoyos. The idea that you can bring a guy in and have any level of confidence that he'll repeat any previous success is a total gamble. And Butcher's career wasn't even a yoyo - it was one of these flatlining ECGs in a TV hospital series that suddenly give a blip before they die.

I shudder to think how many hundreds of thousands of pounds the whole Butcher fiasco will have cost us by the time it's played out. Only a complete idiot would have thought it was a sensible idea for a club with Hibs' meagre resources to bet the farm on a guy with a record like Butcher's...

Step forward, The Great Helmsman.

As seems to be the case at the moment at Old Trafford :wink:

[Boyle89]

He seems to be on quite a lot. I'd love for someone on there to grill him about being one of the biggest failures in scottish football! It was nearly impossible to take us down and he did.

[Billy Whizz]

Interestingly, I heard (from someone there )that in the board meeting after Fenlon left , there wasn't a short list, or a selection process...one of the members proposed Butcher, he was unanimously agreed as the preferred candidate . They chose to pursue him and him alone and got their man ...there was no deep analysis on this appointment - and boy have we suffered as a result !

I can believe this. There was no interview process for the Managers job when Pat left. The board must have known for a bit that he was moving on, plenty time to looking at possible candidates, other than one person

[munchar]

So you'd sacrifice an ideal world for your spite?

We sacked him. He can be as smug to the cameras as he likes, but he's not in front of them so much these days.

We did that. :smug:

Not my spite, his spite.
Most managers after being dismissed continue to get paid. Rightly so, they are under contract. But once they gain further employment, the payments end. If he is making it obvious that he has no intention of seeking a job until his contract is paid up, that is spite!

[Thecat23]

I was happy when he came and thought he'd give us the boot up the arse we needed. Sadly how wrong I was!

Rod though shouldn't be giving anyone contracts without a clause in them. For a manager to drop us down should be reason enough for an instant dismissal with no pay. Shocking negotiating from the board it really is.

[Kato]

Yes, and it seemed the correct appointment at the time!! Nobody can deny that in my book

I cringe when I see him on SSN.

Surely gardening leave is exactly that...GARDENING LEAVE!? How can he work for SSN??

I wanted neither Hughes or Butcher.

[Peevemor]

I was happy when he came and thought he'd give us the boot up the arse we needed. Sadly how wrong I was!

Rod though shouldn't be giving anyone contracts without a clause in them. For a manager to drop us down should be reason enough for an instant dismissal with no pay. Shocking negotiating from the board it really is.

Hibs were desperate to get Butcher & Co. and RP/the board were under ENORMOUS fan pressure to get the deal done. What if TB wouldn't accept a "relegation clause"? What if he said that his star players could be sold from under him or his budget could be cut thus preventing him doing things his way? What if Butcher failed to come to Hibs because of such a clause and the fans found out about it? Can you imagine the stick RP would have got?

It's easy to blame RP for not having a clause, but none of us know what happened during the negotiations.

[GreenArmyyy!]

The majority wanted Butcher. Hardly Rod's fault he was so bad. I'm by no means a Petrie fan but was he to expect it to go so horribly wrong?

I think he is getting at Petrie because the terms of the contract should not have allowed a situation like this.

[Nailrodders]

I was happy when he came and thought he'd give us the boot up the arse we needed. Sadly how wrong I was! Rod though shouldn't be giving anyone contracts without a clause in them. For a manager to drop us down should be reason enough for an instant dismissal with no pay. Shocking negotiating from the board it really is.Therein lies the nub of the problem.

You can't just force people to sign contracts by shouting at them. I suspect that Rod would have tried to include a relegation clause in the contract, and I suspect equally that Butcher would have told him to do one.

Butcher was sitting pretty at ICT. He didn't need Hibs. But Rod was desperate to get his man, and finally prove to all the naysayers that he was the football genius that he knew himself to be. This was a seller's market. Butcher was calling the shots, not Rod.

[Baader]

In an ideal world, Definately not. But if he's sitting in his back garden puffing a large Cuban, and by the sound of it , being very smug, then I would certainly let him earn his wages.


Maybe need someone to mop the piss off the floor in the toilets of the East at half time. Or perhaps plunge the cubicles when they get blocked? Perhaps there is a role still for Butcher at ER?

[Pretty Boy]

I seem to remember most of this forum being pretty pleased that Rod had managed to get Butcher and his team.
Good bit of revisionism going on now.

Most of us didn't have the chance to interview him or carry out any other standard pre employment checks.

[Hibbyradge]

At the time of the Butcher appointment I was against it on principle. To me the whole thing stank of Old Firmery - Hey we're krap I know instead of developing our own guy let's find a smaller club with less resources than us and hoy their manager hey while we're at it let's hoy the whole management team as well hey job done...

But if I hadn't been opposed to it on principle I would have been opposed to it on common sense grounds. There are maybe two managers on the planet who have a consistent record of success. The other 99.99% have careers like yoyos. The idea that you can bring a guy in and have any level of confidence that he'll repeat any previous success is a total gamble. And Butcher's career wasn't even a yoyo - it was one of these flatlining ECGs in a TV hospital series that suddenly give a blip before they die.

I shudder to think how many hundreds of thousands of pounds the whole Butcher fiasco will have cost us by the time it's played out. Only a complete idiot would have thought it was a sensible idea for a club with Hibs' meagre resources to bet the farm on a guy with a record like Butcher's...

Step forward, The Great Helmsman.

With such vision, you really should be in a high profile football position. Are you?

Has there ever been a manager of Hibs that you thought might be a success only to find out that he was actually a dud or has your judgement always been so impeccable?

Personally, I didn't want Jocky Scott, but apart from that I've been pretty much happy with all the appointments.

You see, for us lesser beings, disappointment always comes as a surprise. We always expect and hope for better than we get.

For those with great vision like yourself, the disappointment must be almost permanent. That's a shame.

I don't mind being an eternal optimist though. I have my fleeting moments of hope to keep me warm.

You have the certain knowledge that you're right. I envy that.

[munchar]

Maybe need someone to mop the piss off the floor in the toilets of the East at half time. Or perhaps plunge the cubicles when they get blocked? Perhaps there is a role still for Butcher at ER?

Unfortunately he can't mop the floors because of his stiff neck. His head is stuck looking upwards after last seasons hoofball!

[1950's hibbie]

Butcher came after considerable success at Inverness, Yogi failed with us and is having considerable success at Inverness. There is certainly something similar in both cases. It surely cannot be just coincidence.

[Judas Iscariot]

Another one to add to the ever growing list of Shan appointments and decisions from that tool Petrie..

God knows how he's still at Hibs with his record, any other club, place of business etc and he'd have been binned years ago..

[BH Hibs]

Just in from work and turned on SSN to see that. No professional pride whatsoever. Wish the presenter had asked him if he wasn't feeling a bit embarrassed taking money after getting us relegated.

[Macaroon]

Just in from work and turned on SSN to see that. No professional pride whatsoever. Wish the presenter had asked him if he wasn't feeling a bit embarrassed taking money after getting us relegated.

Unprofessional, disrespectful footballing dinosaur.

[Nailrodders]

With such vision, you really should be in a high profile football position. Are you?

Has there ever been a manager of Hibs that you thought might be a success only to find out that he was actually a dud or has your judgement always been so impeccable?

Personally, I didn't want Jocky Scott, but apart from that I've been pretty much happy with all the appointments.

You see, for us lesser beings, disappointment always comes as a surprise. We always expect and hope for better than we get.

For those with great vision like yourself, the disappointment must be almost permanent. That's a shame.

I don't mind being an eternal optimist though. I have my fleeting moments of hope to keep me warm.

You have the certain knowledge that you're right. I envy that.It genuinely isn't that difficult Hibbyradge. We'll never be party to the information, as it's not for us 'little people' to know these things, but I do sometimes speculate about exactly how much of the fans' money The Great Helmsman sponked down the drain on the Butcher debacle. I would be surprised if the end bill comes to less than half a million.

And the fact of the matter is that clubs like Hibs don't have half a million lying around in the petty cash drawer. So this was 'speculative spending' that had to come out of future revenues. The upshot of that is that all the money we spent bringing Butcher and his team to ER, and the thousands of pounds that we're currently paying to them to do nothing, is coming out of the current playing budget, as there isn't anywhere else for it to come from. That's why we haven't spent any money on decent players this summer, and why we're engaged in classy stuff like offering a contract to young players who have committed their youth to Hibs, and then withdrawing the offers before they've even had a chance to sign them, thereby putting their whole careers at risk.

I suspect that if The Great Helmsman had stood up and announced "Hey everybody! I'm about to spend half a million pounds that we don't have to bring Terry Butcher to ER based on his unblemished track record as a manager!", then even the dullest of supporters might have been inspired to go and actually check his track record, and then they might have turned round and said "Er, hang on a minute. Are you sure that's a good idea?"

I'm well aware that you hate seeing The Great Helmsman criticised, after all the success he's wrought at ER. Well, the good news for you is that he's not finished yet. Even more of this 'success' is on the way.

And there I go, using my 'great vision' and 'certain knowledge' again. Let's you and me come back and revisit the topic in six months or so, and see how I did.

[18Craig75]

I'd love to sneak into his garden under the cover of darkness and practice with a 3 iron amongst his rhododendrons.

[Borderhibbie76]

Get him in cleaning the stadium after matches. ..absolute tool of a man and it irritates the hell out of me why he is never quizzed on his integrity!

[leggeto]

Hat useless tool on SSN said when asked what he was doing now that he was on paid gardening leave and that his contract/pay is honoured for a year

When the presenter asked him about being a favourite for the Ross County job he said he couldn't get involved with other clubs due to the conditions of the gardening leave

Smug as anything and sounds like he's more than happy to sit the year out growing vegetables and watching his beloved Ipswich.

Presume it's a similar deal for his sidekick mr Mo angry Malpas

Horrible drain on our funds

cheers KING ROD ... Another fine bit of business

I don't blame rod for his failure, I was fairly happy when he arrived, I don't know why managers get signed up on such long contracts anyway,1year rolling contracts are the way forward

[Nailrodders]

Get him in cleaning the stadium after matches. ..absolute tool of a man and it irritates the hell out of me why he is never quizzed on his integrity!That would amount to constructive dismissal and give him an even stronger claim against Hibs. Fact is he was in the driving seat when he was hired and arranged his contract accordingly. Who wouldn't, in these circumstances?

We just have to suck it up.

[Kaff]

That would amount to constructive dismissal and give him an even stronger claim against Hibs. Fact is he was in the driving seat when he was hired and arranged his contract accordingly. Who wouldn't, in these circumstances?

We just have to suck it up.

I imagine the terms of gardening leave might preclude him from actively seeking alternative employment? He always was allowed to undertake media work so popping up on SSN won't break the terms of his contract but seeking out another manager position might render it null and void and we could cease the payments.
Just my take on it and hopefully behind the scenes he is looking for a job to give himself some credibility and to release us from this situation

[Thecat23]

Hibs were desperate to get Butcher & Co. and RP/the board were under ENORMOUS fan pressure to get the deal done. What if TB wouldn't accept a "relegation clause"? What if he said that his star players could be sold from under him or his budget could be cut thus preventing him doing things his way? What if Butcher failed to come to Hibs because of such a clause and the fans found out about it? Can you imagine the stick RP would have got?

It's easy to blame RP for not having a clause, but none of us know what happened during the negotiations.

As I've said, Rod is not employed to hire who the fans want. He's hired to bring the best he can to Hibs. If TB refused that then he should have told him to beat it, and then gave a statement to why TB turned us down.

Deals are made all over the world in business and if I had hired someone for my company I'd make sure if he was extremely poor I wouldn't be paying him off for a year!

No matter how much people back up Petrie on this he messed up plain and simple! Then again it's the norm for him so it's no surprise.

[dunks]

I assume the gardeners are not entitled to bonuses of any sort?!

[Nailrodders]

I imagine the terms of gardening leave might preclude him from actively seeking alternative employment? He always was allowed to undertake media work so popping up on SSN won't break the terms of his contract but seeking out another manager position might render it null and void and we could cease the payments.
Just my take on it and hopefully behind the scenes he is looking for a job to give himself some credibility and to release us from this situationOn the contrary. LD will be phoning him up twice a week to ask him "Anything on the horizon Terry?"

Even if he does eventually get offered another job, there's not a chance it will be for anything like the money he is on at ER. So we'll probably still have to pay him some kind of lump sum to give him an incentive to take it.

That's just the unpleasant reality of the thing.