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View Full Version : Forever Hibernian Plan Has Hit a Brick Wall



Keith_M
03-09-2014, 12:54 PM
This was the desciption given by Paul Kane in an article where he encourages as many fans as possible to complete the Supporters Direct Scotland survey.

'"...(Kane) claimed one plan put forward by a group including himself, Kenny McLean and like-minded Hibs fans, involving a 51 per cent shareholding for supporters, had “hit a brick wall” as Petrie “kept shifting the goalposts”.'

http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hibs/paul-kane-urges-hibs-fans-to-engage-in-survey-calling-for-change-1-3529503

jacomo
03-09-2014, 01:09 PM
Can only assume that Kane hasn't got the money.

I'm generally supportive of the idea of fan ownership or part-ownership, but it's pretty clear that Rod and STF aren't going to entertain people without serious, verifiable investment behind them.

blackpoolhibs
03-09-2014, 01:34 PM
Petrie cant move the goalposts, he's been effectively retired. :rolleyes:

Big Frank
03-09-2014, 01:36 PM
Petrie cant move the goalposts, he's been effectively retired. :rolleyes:

yes, from the playing side but has he been "retired" from the money making side :wink:

scott7_0(Prague)
03-09-2014, 01:44 PM
Is this a shock to anyone, the plans were written up on the back of a cigarette packet..... :rolleyes:

blackpoolhibs
03-09-2014, 01:48 PM
yes, from the playing side but has he been "retired" from the money making side :wink:

Exactly, LD can say what she wants, while he's still there i don't believe anything gets passed without him giving it the once over.

Crazyhorse
03-09-2014, 01:49 PM
Can only assume that Kane hasn't got the money.

I'm generally supportive of the idea of fan ownership or part-ownership, but it's pretty clear that Rod and STF aren't going to entertain people without serious, verifiable investment behind them.

The con...duit ain't going anywhere. Hibs, whatever league they are in, are his ticket to the job he wants.

Farmer's motivation is hard to fathom, its difficult to understand anyone simply allowing the stagnation and now decline we are witnessing of a community/commercial organisation they own. One concern I have is the issue of forward planning he isn't going to be around forever (must be in his mid 70's now?) and hopefully he will stay in good health but in the not too distant future he isn't going to be around. We could be in store for a very chaotic time.

Kato
03-09-2014, 01:54 PM
Is this a shock to anyone, the plans were written up on the back of a cigarette packet..... :rolleyes:

Could you show me a copy. Sounds interesting.

NW
03-09-2014, 01:56 PM
Is this a shock to anyone, the plans were written up on the back of a cigarette packet..... :rolleyes:

Very harsh and uncalled for. Independent financial and legal professionals drew up a proposal which was governed by a nda.

NW
03-09-2014, 01:57 PM
There is more than one way to get passed a wall

Waxy
03-09-2014, 01:58 PM
Makes you wonder, have we past/present had board members only here to make themselves a profit.

matty_f
03-09-2014, 02:00 PM
Very harsh and uncalled for. Independent financial and legal professionals drew up a proposal which was governed by a nda.

And was independently assessed as not in the best interests of the club.

scott7_0(Prague)
03-09-2014, 02:00 PM
Could you show me a copy. Sounds interesting.


13406




Very harsh and uncalled for. Independent financial and legal professionals drew up a proposal which was governed by a nda.

Truth hurts sometimes.:agree:

ancient hibee
03-09-2014, 02:01 PM
Could you show me a copy. Sounds interesting.

It says "owning a football club can be injurious to your wealth".

Keith_M
03-09-2014, 02:03 PM
And was independently assessed as not in the best interests of the club.


That doesn't mean that the 'back of a fag packet' comment was fair.

We also don't know on what basis it was rejected/being blocked.

NW
03-09-2014, 02:06 PM
And was independently assessed as not in the best interests of the club.

Agreed. And no argument but describing it as such was unfair on those involved.(which I wasn't)

NW
03-09-2014, 02:07 PM
13406





Truth hurts sometimes.:agree:

I wasn't involved but think its unfair for you to have a go when you potentially have no knowledge of offer of those involved

marinello59
03-09-2014, 02:11 PM
]Very harsh and uncalled for.[/B] Independent financial and legal professionals drew up a proposal which was governed by a nda.

I'll agree with you there. I would assume that Paul Kane's team did things properly when it came to presenting a bid. To suggest otherwise without any actual knowledge is unfair.

scott7_0(Prague)
03-09-2014, 02:13 PM
off your high horses folk, your starting to sound like Yes and No campaigners - its all about opinions. :cb

J-C
03-09-2014, 02:15 PM
Exactly, LD can say what she wants, while he's still there i don't believe anything gets passed without him giving it the once over.


He'll have no say in the players/caoches anymore but he's still STF's right hand man who was hand picked to look after STF's investment, LD is SEO of football operations not the selling of the club.

Hibbyradge
03-09-2014, 02:19 PM
Why don't Kano etc give Hibs money to spend on players?

A cheap loan even. That would be a huge help.

NW
03-09-2014, 02:23 PM
Why don't Kano etc give Hibs money to spend on players?

A cheap loan even. That would be a huge help.

Would you give money to people you don't trust?

Pretty Boy
03-09-2014, 02:24 PM
off your high horses folk, your starting to sound like Yes and No campaigners - its all about opinions. :cb

Ways and means of expressing an opinion.

Kano may not have had the knowledge or backing to front a bid, people don't have to like him but some of the stuff aimed at him has been every bit as bad as the stuff aimed at RP and LD.

I'll give him credit for getting off his erse and trying to do something.

HFC 0-7
03-09-2014, 02:27 PM
Why don't Kano etc give Hibs money to spend on players?

A cheap loan even. That would be a huge help.

I think they would if they trusted the board to spend it properly, it's for that reason that they want to buy the club and spend money correctly.

HFC 0-7
03-09-2014, 02:29 PM
And was independently assessed as not in the best interests of the club.

Yes, a, but would that not be assessed as to how the club currently operates, ie, top heavy board and continue the size of operations at east mains etc.

aslo, remember tynecastle being independently assessed for its worth when they were in admin?

Kato
03-09-2014, 02:41 PM
13406


Can't make out the writing.


[QUOTE]Truth hurts sometimes.:agree:

Maybe you can spill the beans re-the truth as PK's business with TF was subject to a confidentiality agreement. I'm sure we're all keen to know the detail.

Cameron1875
03-09-2014, 02:42 PM
Why don't Kano etc give Hibs money to spend on players?

A cheap loan even. That would be a huge help.

So Kano etc give Petrie £1 million/£2 million for example to buy some players.

But Petrie's tight fistedness and ludicrious wage structure means we end up with a team of Ritchie Towell, Fillip Morais, Matt Thornhill, Pa Kujabi.
Rather than 1 or 2 QUALITY players.

Can't see Kano going for that imo

ancient hibee
03-09-2014, 02:43 PM
I think they would if they trusted the board to spend it properly, it's for that reason that they want to buy the club and spend money correctly.

Only want to buy 51% of the club surely?

Hibbyradge
03-09-2014, 02:43 PM
Would you give money to people you don't trust?

If I had a spare £3.5m floating around I would happily give money to hibs, but I'd require a say in what (or who) it was spent on.

Hibbyradge
03-09-2014, 02:45 PM
So Kano etc give Petrie £1 million/£2 million for example to buy some players.

But Petrie's tight fistedness and ludicrious wage structure means we end up with a team of Ritchie Towell, Fillip Morais, Matt Thornhill, Pa Kujabi.
Rather than 1 or 2 QUALITY players.

Can't see Kano going for that imo

Do you know many businessmen who hand over large sums of cash without knowing what it was going to be spent on?

If so, introduce me to them.

HFC 0-7
03-09-2014, 02:49 PM
Do you know many businessmen who hand over large sums of cash without knowing what it was going to be spent on?

If so, introduce me to them.

About 7200 of us this season.

Nailrodders
03-09-2014, 03:08 PM
Petrie cant move the goalposts, he's been effectively retired. :rolleyes:I understand that in fact he's been 'effectively sacked'.

worcesterhibby
03-09-2014, 03:14 PM
About 7200 of us this season.

:thumbsup:

Cameron1875
03-09-2014, 03:25 PM
About 7200 of us this season.

Brilliant :greengrin..................................:boo hoo:

NAE NOOKIE
03-09-2014, 03:28 PM
Is this a shock to anyone, the plans were written up on the back of a cigarette packet..... :rolleyes:

Which is probably still 100% more paper than will be required to write down what you actually know about the proposal to be able to back up that statement.

BSEJVT
03-09-2014, 03:56 PM
Exactly, LD can say what she wants, while he's still there i don't believe anything gets passed without him giving it the once over.

Look BH its all very well decrying the guy for everything but in all honesty its got SFA to do with LD

They are trying to buy at least a part of the club and its the majority shareholders they need to deal with.

Since STF uses RP for all things Hibs its natural that its him they have to deal with.

I am pretty sure Mr Kane is being a bit sly hear and trying to have the support rail further against Petrie.

Simple factor is they need to come up with an acceptable offer and the sellers can move the goalposts as often as they want or remove them completely.

I don't think Forever Hibernian has a shred of credibility that they can mount a realistic bid (other than some prominent Hibs supporters endorsing them)

We are divided enough as it is without somebody stirring the sh*t for their own ends.

If Mr Kane truly cared about Hibs these discussions would go on behind closed doors and despite any personal animosity between them conduct himself with some dignity

jacomo
03-09-2014, 04:01 PM
I wasn't involved but think its unfair for you to have a go when you potentially have no knowledge of offer of those involved

But you are involved now?

I don't understand the NDA. Normally, these cover privileged or commercially sensitive information that someone is willing to share with you, but doesn't want you to share with anybody else. Reasonable and commonplace in business discussions.

The NDA might even cover the discussions between Kane and Farmer, as Farmer may have divulged information that he doesn't want in the public domain. Again, fair enough.

But why would Kane sign an NDA that covers his own proposal? Surely that proposal belongs to him and his group, and they can talk about it if they want to?

woody0-7
03-09-2014, 04:11 PM
About 7200 of us this season.

Lol brilliant

Danderhall Hibs
03-09-2014, 06:35 PM
About 7200 of us this season.

:aok: :hilarious

Brightside
03-09-2014, 06:37 PM
Why don't Kano etc give Hibs money to spend on players?

A cheap loan even. That would be a huge help.

He doesn't have any money. He rents a couple of boozers.

bigwheel
03-09-2014, 06:50 PM
Forever Hibernian have done nothing to combine our supporter base behind them and their proposals, Frankly , if it wasn't for the appalling team performance, they would be dead and buried already. The key players (Kano, Pia) seem to spend more time being negative about Petrie/Farmer, than being in anyway convincing about their plans and proposals. As a fan, they have no credibility at this stage with me.

Weir7
03-09-2014, 06:56 PM
He doesn't have any money. He rents a couple of boozers.

What pubs are they?

Bishop Hibee
03-09-2014, 06:56 PM
Look BH its all very well decrying the guy for everything but in all honesty its got SFA to do with LD

They are trying to buy at least a part of the club and its the majority shareholders they need to deal with.

Since STF uses RP for all things Hibs its natural that its him they have to deal with.

I am pretty sure Mr Kane is being a bit sly hear and trying to have the support rail further against Petrie.

Simple factor is they need to come up with an acceptable offer and the sellers can move the goalposts as often as they want or remove them completely.

I don't think Forever Hibernian has a shred of credibility that they can mount a realistic bid (other than some prominent Hibs supporters endorsing them)

We are divided enough as it is without somebody stirring the sh*t for their own ends.

If Mr Kane truly cared about Hibs these discussions would go on behind closed doors and despite any personal animosity between them conduct himself with some dignity

No need for the support to "rail further against Petrie", he's driven most of us to hate him anyway. Kano tried to be the front to rally any pro-Hibs people with cash into bidding for Hibs. What are Kano's "own ends'? He may not be particularly articulate or Mensa standard but he loves the club. That's more than Petrie or Farmer do.

Onion
03-09-2014, 07:04 PM
If the plan to remove STF and Petrie fails, the risk is it will just embolden them further. They'll think they're untouchable and can do anything or nothing without consequence.

BSEJVT
03-09-2014, 07:11 PM
No need for the support to "rail further against Petrie", he's driven most of us to hate him anyway. Kano tried to be the front to rally any pro-Hibs people with cash into bidding for Hibs. What are Kano's "own ends'? He may not be particularly articulate or Mensa standard but he loves the club. That's more than Petrie or Farmer do.

Firstly it's clearly been a tactic to stir further revolt against Petrie.

My guess it's for 2 reasons folk rally behind popular causes and secondly to make them so fed up they will sell out .

Secondly I don't care if he is a genius or a muppet it's entirely irrelevant.

He wants a seat at the table that he presently doesn't have.

If STF didn't love the club or what it stood for, why the hell did he buy it and save it?

Love takes many forms

Hibbyradge
03-09-2014, 07:29 PM
About 7200 of us this season.

Well avoided.:aok:

NAE NOOKIE
03-09-2014, 11:57 PM
Forever Hibernian have done nothing to combine our supporter base behind them and their proposals, Frankly , if it wasn't for the appalling team performance, they would be dead and buried already. The key players (Kano, Pia) seem to spend more time being negative about Petrie/Farmer, than being in anyway convincing about their plans and proposals. As a fan, they have no credibility at this stage with me.

I don't know if you read these forums Kano mate, but this is what you get for agreeing to confidentiality clauses.

Beefster
04-09-2014, 04:52 AM
Do you know many businessmen who hand over large sums of cash without knowing what it was going to be spent on?


About 7200 of us this season.

Personally, I see myself as "International Playboy", "Mr. Olivia Munn", "Entrepreneur" and/or "Philanthropist" rather than a "businessman".

bigwheel
04-09-2014, 06:51 AM
I don't know if you read these forums Kano mate, but this is what you get for agreeing to confidentiality clauses.

Their lack of ability to mobilise most of the fan base behind them has nothing to do with confidentiality . I don't need to hear about the commercial deal to buy the club. I simply need to hear what they plan to do to make Hibs better , and why their way is the best for our club. They have been unconvincing on either of these topics. The content of their communication so far has made me less interested in their plans. It comes over caring about the club, but amateur and emotive, rather than clear plans and impactful. The fact that they have failed to get some key wealthy Hibs fansuch as Malcolm McPherson ( and others) behind their plans also is a real weakness in their progress. Pia comes over as an angry man, with a spiteful dislike of Farmer...again, very unprofessional as part of the team trying to do a deal with him....I would love to get behind a convincing group , but poor so far for me.

NAE NOOKIE
04-09-2014, 10:11 AM
Their lack of ability to mobilise most of the fan base behind them has nothing to do with confidentiality . I don't need to hear about the commercial deal to buy the club. I simply need to hear what they plan to do to make Hibs better , and why their way is the best for our club. They have been unconvincing on either of these topics. The content of their communication so far has made me less interested in their plans. It comes over caring about the club, but amateur and emotive, rather than clear plans and impactful. The fact that they have failed to get some key wealthy Hibs fansuch as Malcolm McPherson ( and others) behind their plans also is a real weakness in their progress. Pia comes over as an angry man, with a spiteful dislike of Farmer...again, very unprofessional as part of the team trying to do a deal with him....I would love to get behind a convincing group , but poor so far for me.

And yet the current owner says less than Harpo Marx and allows the club to make 5 year plans which it wont reveal the details of to the supporters.
:kettle:

Phil D. Rolls
04-09-2014, 10:22 AM
Very harsh and uncalled for. Independent financial and legal professionals drew up a proposal which was governed by a nda.

Unfortunately a man with the communication skills of a chimp tried to sell it to the fans, and hence people thought it was amateur.

Phil D. Rolls
04-09-2014, 10:25 AM
Firstly it's clearly been a tactic to stir further revolt against Petrie.

My guess it's for 2 reasons folk rally behind popular causes and secondly to make them so fed up they will sell out .

Secondly I don't care if he is a genius or a muppet it's entirely irrelevant.

He wants a seat at the table that he presently doesn't have.

If STF didn't love the club or what it stood for, why the hell did he buy it and save it?

Love takes many forms

The latest theories centre on him having some deep seated hatred of the club, which involved him running it into the ground over a 25 year period.

Hibee_Dave
04-09-2014, 11:07 AM
Admittedly I've never tried to take over a business let alone one with a turnover of between £5-10M but I think if I wanted to buy 51% of it from the current owners I would probably not stage a protest on their front door featuring abusive posters etc. That's a fans move which is to be respected, but it's not really the move of a serious businessman who's likely to be taken seriously by RP who, it's been acknowledged by most here IS a businessman (rather than a football man). It's no wonder he keeps 'moving the goalposts.' I would imagine there are ways to go about this and it seems that Kano is going down the angry fan route rather than the serious businessman route....

Keith_M
04-09-2014, 11:09 AM
Unfortunately a man with the communication skills of a chimp tried to sell it to the fans, and hence people thought it was amateur.


I think what you meant to say was this.............



Admittedly I've never tried to take over a business let alone one with a turnover of between £5-10M but I think if I wanted to buy 51% of it from the current owners I would probably not stage a protest on their front door featuring abusive posters etc. That's a fans move which is to be respected, but it's not really the move of a serious businessman who's likely to be taken seriously by RP who, it's been acknowledged by most here IS a businessman (rather than a football man). It's no wonder he keeps 'moving the goalposts.' I would imagine there are ways to go about this and it seems that Kano is going down the angry fan route rather than the serious businessman route....



:greengrin

Phil D. Rolls
04-09-2014, 01:26 PM
I think what you meant to say was this.............


:greengrin

Sums up my thoughts in a nutshell. Namely if you want to mix it with the big boys, don't go crying to your mammy when it turns out they are stronger than you.

Juice-Terry
04-09-2014, 01:48 PM
It's absolutely ridiculous the amount of people on here who thinks Kano wants to run the club. He doesn't. He has taken the initiative to a: Get rid of Petrie, and b: For Farmer to sell the club to people who are willing to invest in it. He should be applauded for all this - regardless of the actual outcome.

ancient hibee
04-09-2014, 01:53 PM
It's absolutely ridiculous the amount of people on here who thinks Kano wants to run the club. He doesn't. He has taken the initiative to a: Get rid of Petrie, and b: For Farmer to sell the club to people who are willing to invest in it. He should be applauded for all this - regardless of the actual outcome.

And if there are people willing to invest in the club(I've seen no evidence of that)why don't they put in a reasonable offer?Or is the truth that they don't exist?

Juice-Terry
04-09-2014, 01:58 PM
I think (THINK) the truth is that Farmer and Petrie are simply asking for too much money.

ancient hibee
04-09-2014, 02:13 PM
I think (THINK) the truth is that Farmer and Petrie are simply asking for too much money.


That may be but it's also pretty clear that any offers have been far too low and there is no evidence of punters who have money to pour into the club never mind buy it.

Jack
04-09-2014, 03:49 PM
I think (THINK) the truth is that Farmer and Petrie are simply asking for too much money.

There's nothing to suggest they're are asking for money. Quite the opposite. LD when asked how much STF is looking for has replied along the lines of 'Who says he's looking for anything?"

We'll just have to wait and see.

Juice-Terry
04-09-2014, 06:32 PM
Believe me, there's plenty that suggests STF and RP are looking for big bucks - and, admittedly, in the case of STF - the right sort of people to safeguard the club.

Eyrie
04-09-2014, 06:32 PM
I think (THINK) the truth is that Farmer and Petrie are simply asking for too much money.
More likely that they're looking for guarantees about the financial strength of the prospective bidder to ensure that we will be properly funded if they sell.

schinkenotto
04-09-2014, 07:09 PM
Believe me, there's plenty that suggests STF and RP are looking for big bucks - and, admittedly, in the case of STF - the right sort of people to safeguard the club.

I don't know about Petrie,but from everything I've heard and know personally,there' s no way that STF is looking for "big bucks" or indeed any financial reward.All along all he has wanted to do has been to safeguard the club and no one has come forward to carry this on.I'm in no doubt that he regrets the day he was persuaded to become involved with Hibs and that he still hopes that some workable and reputable solution can be found,without the abuse and boycott threats,which are now emerging from the woodwork.He clearly made the wrong choice with RP,but I'm hopeful that he has at last made the right choice with Ms Dempster.

No one should be in any doubt that if STF decides that "enough is enough" without a credible replacement emerging,the show is over.

Jack
05-09-2014, 12:54 PM
Believe me, there's plenty that suggests STF and RP are looking for big bucks - and, admittedly, in the case of STF - the right sort of people to safeguard the club.

I've said on a number of occasions there's no evidence to suggest STF is looking for anything, never mind big bucks. Quite the opposite, LD when asked how much has said something along the lines of 'Who says he's looking for anything?'

Would you mind pointing me towards some of 'the plenty' before I mislead anyone else?

Thanks.