Tonight's supporters meeting

[BroxburnHibee]

Rihanna is interested. :greengrin

Then get tweeting :tee hee:

[SneakersO'Toole]

@darrensqh: @HibeesBounce meeting: dempster, "farmer out or Petrie out straight away would leave us in too much danger with no bank of last resort"

But we are one of the most financially sound clubs in Scotland according to Petrie.

I don't believe that one second Leeanne sorry.

[Brightside]

I have not seen any proposals or seen what anyone is prepared to put into the club to make any kind of opinion on the matter. Can i ask you again, what have you seen from any of these people to make any sort of decision on the matter?

Eddie Ramsey bid was a case of vanity and didn't even get to a registered bid.
Low bid would have included a restructure of property and assets, and the future of Easter Road stadium would have been at risk.
And the Kano was missing vital detail around the sustainability of the club moving forward, hence why he has now jumped in with the other "fans ownerships" groups.

The change to bring in LD was done as Petrie admitted he was making a mess of running the football club. All I'm saying is we need to give her a chance to turn it around.

There is certainly nothing deaf, dumb or blind about me. I'm just an adult.

[BroxburnHibee]

It cant be any surprise to anyone the club is rooked?

I am guessing at losses of nearly £2m last year with this year being worse.

My financial position means I can't afford a season ticket but if I thought there was a chance the club was in danger I'd certainly be willing to try and help somehow just like the Hearts fans did.

[DaveF]

It cant be any surprise to anyone the club is rooked?

I am guessing at losses of nearly £2m last year with this year being worse.

If we are that skint then Farmer and Petrie need look no further than the mirror to see where the blame lies. The fans have turned up and dug deep time and time again.

Those in charge have made an almighty arse of it in recent years so any loss is down to them and their shoddy running of the football club.

[BSEJVT]

But we are one of the most financially sound clubs in Scotland according to Petrie.

I don't believe that one second Leeanne sorry.

I think you should believe it

We are financially sound in so far our assets comfortably outweigh our liabilities and our balance sheet its better than most

However we will rack up big losses this and next year and they :

a) require funding and

b) will reduce the surplus between assets and liabilities

There isn't a Bank in the world that would lend more money to a Scottish Football team at the moment without at best hefty personal guarantees from its owner if at all.

There is absolutely no doubt of this fact

[blackpoolhibs]

Eddie Ramsey bid was a case of vanity and didn't even get to a registered bid.
Low bid would have included a restructure of property and assets, and the future of Easter Road stadium would have been at risk.
And the Kano was missing vital detail around the sustainability of the club moving forward, hence why he has now jumped in with the other "fans ownerships" groups.

The change to bring in LD was done as Petrie admitted he was making a mess of running the football club. All I'm saying is we need to give her a chance to turn it around.

There is certainly nothing deaf, dumb or blind about me. I'm just an adult.

I apologise, i did not realise you knew all the details and funds everyone had, or indeed what negotiations would be needed to get their bids accepted?

I will take your opinion like i do with your predictions, file them in the bull bin. :wink:

[BSEJVT]

If we are that skint then Farmer and Petrie need look no further than the mirror to see where the blame lies. The fans have turned up and dug deep time and time again.

Those in charge have made an almighty arse of it in recent years so any loss is down to them and their shoddy running of the football club.

Dont disagree with a word of that but it doesn't change the situation

[Peevemor]

But we are one of the most financially sound clubs in Scotland according to Petrie.

I don't believe that one second Leeanne sorry.

Hibs do not have an overdraft facility and it's only cup runs (not last season obviously) that have stopped our debt rising.

Over the years STF has regularly chipped in the odd million quid here and there when the cash-flow has been iffy. These loans are repaid when possible and all this has been documented in the accounts.

What's not to believe?

[Waxy]

If we are that skint then Farmer and Petrie need look no further than the mirror to see where the blame lies. The fans have turned up and dug deep time and time again.

Those in charge have made an almighty arse of it in recent years so any loss is down to them and their shoddy running of the football club.Whilst we go mental at them for not signing enough players on deadline day?

[Pretty Boy]

My financial position means I can't afford a season ticket but if I thought there was a chance the club was in danger I'd certainly be willing to try and help somehow just like the Hearts fans did.

I think that's the case for a lot of people.

I've said a few times over the last couple of days if the financial situation is as bad as is being hinted and somewhat proven by the weakness of the squad then tell us.

If there's real financial trouble either imminent or on the horizon then the fans will rally. We have done it before and would do it again.

[Brightside]

I apologise, i did not realise you knew all the details and funds everyone had, or indeed what negotiations would be needed to get their bids accepted?

I will take your opinion like i do with your predictions, file them in the bull bin. :wink:

good son.

[jacomo]

@darrensqh: @HibeesBounce meeting: dempster, "farmer out or Petrie out straight away would leave us in too much danger with no bank of last resort"

This is true.

What I don't understand is why STF carries on with the same plan when it's clearly failing.

The club's income is declining, which makes it more reliant on STF to bail it out. For a host of reasons that even an accountant should be able to understand, this club needs to get out of this division promptly or income will keep falling.

The transfer activity over this past window suggests that we aren't aiming for promotion at the first attempt.

[SneakersO'Toole]

If we are that skint then Farmer and Petrie need look no further than the mirror to see where the blame lies. The fans have turned up and dug deep time and time again.

Those in charge have made an almighty arse of it in recent years so any loss is down to them and their shoddy running of the football club.

Exactly.

The season ticket holders are in effective paying for Butcher to prune his roses while we can barely afford a squad worthy of competing in the Championship.

Gauling doesn't come close.

[BroxburnHibee]

The AGM will be interesting :greengrin I fully expect Petrie to pull off another master stroke just before it. Anything that will deflect away from him.

[DaveF]

Dont disagree with a word of that but it doesn't change the situation

So what will?

Better management of the club I assume, but we ain't getting that from the duo in charge. See the last few years for proof.

[BSEJVT]

My financial position means I can't afford a season ticket but if I thought there was a chance the club was in danger I'd certainly be willing to try and help somehow just like the Hearts fans did.

That's where I think fan ownership is taking us

Without an extremely wealthy benefactor to underwrite our losses in times like this, we would be in all sorts of difficulties

That's why a change of ownership is so problematical

The new owner needs to have deep enough pockets to buy us out and act as Lender of last resort in times like this and be prepared to do so.

That's before they invest capital into the team to build us back up.

The chances of turning a profit that can ever be withdrawn are nil

The new owner would need to buy the club for purely altruistic reasons.

They had better be childless die hards who scoop the entire Euro Millions multi rollover

Even then they would get blootered for not investing enough, its an entirely thankless task

[ionahibby]

My financial position means I can't afford a season ticket but if I thought there was a chance the club was in danger I'd certainly be willing to try and help somehow just like the Hearts fans did.

I've had a season ticket 9 years but financially it was just too much this year for me too afford it, but i would certainly help the club in anyway i could if we entered dire needs!

[DaveF]

Whilst we go mental at them for not signing enough players on deadline day?

Eh, naw.

I think most fans are alarmed at the weakness of the squad as a whole, before and up to last night?

Were you not?

[SneakersO'Toole]

I think you should believe it

We are financially sound in so far our assets comfortably outweigh our liabilities and our balance sheet its better than most

However we will rack up big losses this and next year and they :

a) require funding and

b) will reduce the surplus between assets and liabilities

There isn't a Bank in the world that would lend more money to a Scottish Football team at the moment without at best hefty personal guarantees from its owner if at all.

There is absolutely no doubt of this fact

Granted. But in comparison to other clubs who don't have the luxury of a bank of last resort as LD put it, it doesn't add up IMO.

What all these so-called bail outs from STF? We as fans hear nothing of them. I'm sorry but i don't believe it, we are hardly in a perilous state at this current moment in time. Again, unlike some other clubs who btw are still finding in them to put a competitive team on the park.

[BSEJVT]

So what will?

Better management of the club I assume, but we ain't getting that from the duo in charge. See the last few years for proof.

Again I don't disagree

Its not that different to the Independence debate on some level.

They are both to some extent about whether we are prepared to walk across the Niagra Falls with no guarantee of success or no safety net.

They are both about whether we want to stay with a status quo that is failing and that will eventually come apart or whether we are prepared to act first.

[BroxburnHibee]

That's where I think fan ownership is taking us

Without an extremely wealthy benefactor to underwrite our losses in times like this, we would be in all sorts of difficulties

That's why a change of ownership is so problematical

The new owner needs to have deep enough pockets to buy us out and act as Lender of last resort in times like this and be prepared to do so.

That's before they invest capital into the team to build us back up.

The chances of turning a profit that can ever be withdrawn are nil

The new owner would need to buy the club for purely altruistic reasons.

They had better be childless die hards who scoop the entire Euro Millions multi rollover

Even then they would get blootered for not investing enough, its an entirely thankless task

Good post.

[BSEJVT]

Mmmm, interesting. And when did Petrie become a bank of last resort?

Sorry you have lost me

Lender of Last Resort is an old banking phrase meaning that if a bank is running short of capital it goes to the Bank of England or if a person is running short and mainstream lenders wont help they go to someone like Wonga:greengrin

my reference was no deeper than that

[emerald green]

What the hell is happening to our club? Reading through this thread has left me saddened and very worried about the future of our club.

Fans turning on each other. Abusing the new CEO. If she walks what then?

Thanks to the guys updating those of us not at the meeting. Time to go.

[greenpaper55]

Just back, well attended meeting that stuck to the agenda apart from a four Farmer out fans who wandered in after an hour then realised nearly everyone was against them and most of them left !. Interesting figures are that we have sold 7200 ST's , well down on last year, will get back with more thoughts efter ma tea and a beer.

[IanM]

So, we're building yet another new team while skint but asking for the owner to leave so the fans can run it altho we're also skint. We're demanding players be bought cause we're skint due to sheer negligence of the past and we might boycott a game to get rid of Petrie and send abusive messages to the lady who's trying to sort this..

What have I missed?

Joking aside, but of a shambles.. Sounds like we might have to rally the troops again

[silverhibee]

The AGM will be interesting :greengrin I fully expect Petrie to pull off another master stroke just before it. Anything that will deflect away from him.

It will have to be something different this year, he won't get away with sacking the manager two days before the AGM, could be LD that gets the bullet.


Boom

:greengrin

[Scouse Hibee]

Just back, well attended meeting that stuck to the agenda apart from a four Farmer out fans who wandered in after an hour then realised nearly everyone was against them and most of them left !. Interesting figures are that we have sold 7200 ST's , well down on last year, will get back with more thoughts efter ma tea and a beer.

I'm surprised we have sold that many to be honest, I thought it would have been around 5k

[BSEJVT]

Granted. But in comparison to other clubs who don't have the luxury of a bank of last resort as LD put it, it doesn't add up IMO.

What all these so-called bail outs from STF? We as fans hear nothing of them. I'm sorry but i don't believe it, we are hardly in a perilous state at this current moment in time. Again, unlike some other clubs who btw are still finding in them to put a competitive team on the park.

Neither we should, even if he were, its a private matter for him

FWIW I don't believe he is putting money into the club.

I wouldn't describe our situation as perilous, but it is concerning and is deteriorating rapidly.

What I think he is doing is underwriting the debt, ask David Murray what impact that had on him personally when Rangers went tits up?

There aren't many if any clubs in Scotland trading at a loss consistently. Banks don't want anything to do with them and wont finance their losses without substantial guarantees. ( That are backed by Assets)

Our failings by comparison to them are in squandering the money on a never ending series of crap managers and poor players.

I also suspect that we have built the cost base far to high on the likes of East Mains and that and servicing the debt on the stadium ( and repaying it) is making cash very tight.

Hence the lack of investment in the team

I would hazard a guess that part of this change Agenda is because STF is sick to the back teeth of all the hassle and is like the rest of us getting old.

A lot of this contradicts my anger at the lack of investment, but my real fear is dying by a thousand cuts.

I would personally advocate having a leg off now to try and save the rest of the patient, by investing into the team

Some will argue that the appointment of LD and revamp of the backroom staff is investing into the club, but IMO its going to take too long to produce results and folk are tired after 7 long years of crap.

Of course there is no guarantee that investing in the team will produce better results quicker but it will at least show the support tangibly we are trying

IMO there is a real danger that many peoples apathy with Hibs is at the terminal stage

[Pretty Boy]

I'm surprised we have sold that many to be honest, I thought it would have been around 5k

Agreed.

7200 is a very decent effort all things considered.

[Broken Gnome]

Just back, well attended meeting that stuck to the agenda apart from a four Farmer out fans who wandered in after an hour then realised nearly everyone was against them and most of them left !. Interesting figures are that we have sold 7200 ST's , well down on last year, will get back with more thoughts efter ma tea and a beer.

I didn't renew for the first time in twelve years, but 7200 is outstanding considering.

[Peevemor]

Granted. But in comparison to other clubs who don't have the luxury of a bank of last resort as LD put it, it doesn't add up IMO.

What all these so-called bail outs from STF? We as fans hear nothing of them. I'm sorry but i don't believe it, we are hardly in a perilous state at this current moment in time. Again, unlike some other clubs who btw are still finding in them to put a competitive team on the park.

Believe it. The "bail outs" are fact and have featured over the years in the published accounts. Continuing to write that you don't believe it just makes you look daft.

I can remember one year's accounts showing debt (mortgages) of approx £8m and we had about £5m in the bank. At that point in time the debt was only £3m, however Hibs were also spending around £8m per year. By the time you get to February/March (ie. before the STs go on sale), the £5m is long gone with only walk-ups and cup runs to keep things going. This is where the odd bung from our benevolent owner comes in handy.

[Peevemor]

It will have to be something different this year, he won't get away with sacking the manager two days before the AGM, could be LD that gets the bullet.


Boom

:greengrin

Maybe we'll win a match? :dunno:

Radical or what?

[The Green Goblin]

Abuse at the level claimed by LD towards her is bang out of order. Terrible.

I want to ask though, is she sure that it came from Hibs fans? It seems most likely (sadly) but we are also all assuming that it was.

[SneakersO'Toole]

Believe it. The "bail outs" are fact and have featured over the years in the published accounts. Continuing to write that you don't believe it just makes you look daft.

I can remember one year's accounts showing debt (mortgages) of approx £8m and we had about £5m in the bank. At that point in time the debt was only £3m, however Hibs were also spending around £8m per year. By the time you get to February/March (ie. before the STs go on sale), the £5m is long gone with only walk-ups and cup runs to keep things going. This is where the odd bung from our benevolent owner comes in handy.

I remember one, which I think was in 2 years ago accounts and amounted to £1m but was paid back fairly quickly (partially from Stokes money IIRC).

If you can find more fair play but your last couple of posts to me suggest these are commonplace which I dont think they are.

[silverhibee]

Maybe we'll win a match? :dunno:

Radical or what?


Try and be a bit more positive eh, we will win more than one. :wink:

[oneone73]

If we are that skint then Farmer and Petrie need look no further than the mirror to see where the blame lies. The fans have turned up and dug deep time and time again.

Those in charge have made an almighty arse of it in recent years so any loss is down to them and their shoddy running of the football club.
Agreed.

[Peevemor]

I remember one, which I think was in 2 years ago accounts and amounted to £1m but was paid back fairly quickly (partially from Stokes money IIRC).

If you can find more fair play but your last couple of posts to me suggest these are commonplace which I dont think they are.

Believe me, it's been happening for years. For example, £2-3m (I can't recall the exact figure) of the car park sale money went to repaying STF for these type of loans. The rest went to the club, reducing the bank debt which was, at that time, in the region of £16m. It's worth remembering that STF could have legitimately pocketed the lot.

[Gustavo Fring]

the club under sir tom has become a succession of all time lows . from the all time low of the 5-1 we get a new all time low of a 9-0 thrashing in europe . then we got another all time low of being relegted from the worst scottish premier league ever . then we got another new all time low the other day beaten for the 3rd time in a row in the 1st division . by a team of part timers

what next , il tell you

league 1

[SneakersO'Toole]

Believe me, it's been happening for years. For example, £2-3m (I can't recall the exact figure) of the car park sale money went to repaying STF for these type of loans. The rest went to the club, reducing the bank debt which was, at that time, in the region of £16m. It's worth remembering that STF could have legitimately pocketed the lot.

I'm talking about more recent times, not 10+ years ago.

Its easy for the club to say we are reliant on STF when times are dire and questions are being asked. I don't recall much, if any, mutterings of this reliance when we were the so-called "best run club in Scotland".

This club can go on and thrive without Petrie and without STF. I have no doubt about that. Its all too convenient for Hibs to use STF as a necessary doner when backs are against the wall and people are calling for his head. I just don't buy it.

But then i don't buy anything that comes out of the club right now. The trust has evaporated to nothing.

[blackpoolhibs]

the club under sir tom has become a succession of all time lows . from the all time low of the 5-1 we get a new all time low of a 9-0 thrashing in europe . then we got another all time low of being relegted from the worst scottish premier league ever . then we got another new all time low the other day beaten for the 3rd time in a row in the 1st division . by a team of part timers

what next , il tell you

league 1

That's because everything is geared to getting off the field 100% spot on, and on the field is a secondary thought.

[greenpaper55]

Right, back to tonight. Firstly LD came across very well and does a difficult job very well, it would appear that she would like two fans on a restructured board which she thought would ideally would be seven members, it was made apparent that anyone joining the board would have to be willing to give a good slice of their time to this effect. A few ideas were thrown about who would get to vote for those daft enough to put themselves forward and one suggestion was that it should be restricted to ST holders, three different models of fan ownership were given as examples but this is where it got a bit bogged down with no resolution as to how this could be achieved or the time scale for it to happen-don't hold your breath. As others have mentioned TF has been putting his hand in his pocket to steady the ship so i will have to haud ma wheesht on that point,many we snippets of information given by LD re the number of players we had on the books at one point for example , she mentioned 56 but was not sure if it had been 61 or so and we used to laugh at the Hearts ! she thought mid thirties numbers should be the optimum number , best laugh of the night was the so called protesters who just made a complete erse of themselves and they would have to sit next to ME. One said he was a social commentator before he left-what is that ?.

[Peevemor]

I'm talking about more recent times, not 10+ years ago.

Its easy for the club to say we are reliant on STF when times are dire and questions are being asked. I don't recall much, if any, mutterings of this reliance when we were the so-called "best run club in Scotland".

This club can go on and thrive without Petrie and without STF. I have no doubt about that. Its all too convenient for Hibs to use STF as a necessary doner when backs are against the wall and people are calling for his head. I just don't buy it.

But then i don't buy anything that comes out of the club right now. The trust has evaporated to nothing.

For what it's worth, I'm fairly certain that STF will have loaned the club more money last season. We'll see when the accounts are published.

[Colr]

Yeah, she's had a whole 3 MONTHS, to restructure the club from top to bottom while dealing with relegation and the subsequent budget cuts that still looked unlikely when she accepted the job. :rolleyes:

Didn't help that Petrie allowed Butcher to enact a scorched earth strategy on the squad before she got through the door.

I cannot, for the life of me, understand why he did that. Has he been questioned on this?

[CMac1988]

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/09/02/92b67f2b468f543c087fcf2bfba085fb.jpg

When they said storm I didn't think they mean actual Storm Troopers...

(1st floor window + Is there a 'get my coat smiley')

[Hibby Gav]

When she first came she stated she wanted to have a first pick, a backup that was good enough to step up when needed, and an under 20. More lies.

What she actually said tonight was 1 for each position...one under 20...and one in development for each position PLUS a few who could play in a couple of positions if need be...so around 37 players

ggtth

[Ronniekirk]

Agreed.

7200 is a very decent effort all things considered.
Certainly is and more than Dundee United have sold this Season according to United fan I know and look what's on offer there .

[Peevemor]

Didn't help that Petrie allowed Butcher to enact a scorched earth strategy on the squad before she got through the door.

I cannot, for the life of me, understand why he did that. Has he been questioned on this?

That was all very weird and it was further confused by the rumours that were flying about. I'd really like to know who was pulling the strings.

[DarrenSQH]

After coming back im still trying to figure out everything that went on. In the end I actually felt for Dempster. Theres no way they could have picked a worse time for the meeting. She came across very well and I think she cares for the club.

If its true that they say that Farmer does put his hand in his pocket and is our lender of last resort, the meeting seems to me like an attempt to find a way we could continue if anything was to happen to him (similar to what happened to Gretna and Brooks Mileson.) I think its hard to consider what options the fans have of buying the club without any figures set to raise though.

Alot of old ground was covered and she said that in previous years all money that could have been spent on the team had been. The issue was the return we got for the money spent was poor, its not that any money was held back. Pointed out motherwell spent much much less to finish second than we had for 11th. Also pointed out that having 56 players and 3 full time teams was way too much. She also says this season is difficult as players are on spl deals and find themselves in the championship.

The protestors came in half way through the meeting and the questions they posed had been gone over at the start mostly. As for wanting "Farmer out now" she later said that would put us in too much danger as we would have no one to turn too in times of financial difficulty. One protestor made a statement and left.

Also someone had a go at the standard of the pies in the east stand http://www.hibeesbounce.com/forum/images/smilies/rollfloorlaffsmiley.gifhttp://www.hibeesbounce.com/forum/images/smilies/rollfloorlaffsmiley.gifhttp://www.hibeesbounce.com/forum/images/smilies/rollfloorlaffsmiley.gif priorities spot on there.

[rcarter1]

Just back, well attended meeting that stuck to the agenda apart from a four Farmer out fans who wandered in after an hour then realised nearly everyone was against them and most of them left !. Interesting figures are that we have sold 7200 ST's , well down on last year, will get back with more thoughts efter ma tea and a beer.

Thanks for the information - it appreciated by folk who aren't there.

A few thoughts.

Glad to hear that the Farmer Out bunch were a minority. I would not be surprised if Farmer himself was keen to be out, but he has always stated not to sell unless the right people came along.

7200 season tickets is more than I had imagined. Im speculating a little, but Id be surprised if any club outside of Rangers, Celtic, Hearts and Aberdeen has sold as many season tickets.

Some recent attendances in the SPL

Dundee United vs Ross County, Saturday 3pm, attendance: 7179
St Johnstone vs Aberdeen, Saturday 3pm, Attendance: 6377
Inverness vs Celtic, Saturday 3pm, Attendance: 5862

It really is time we had some facts as to how we can be so financially crippled with better crowds (even now) then these clubs, whilst at the same time - living within our means.

I am in support of Leanne Dempster, as she has only just arrived, and obviously is working under the constraints of RP/TF.

However Ive smelt rotten eggs of a financial sort for a long time (and I don't mean corrupt or anything). If the clubs above (the home ones anyway) survive and thrive, what on earth are we doing with our income!?

[Nailrodders]

OK. He had a (probably salaried) job. Now he doesn't. He stood himself down (or was pressured into doing so by STF)... How would you describe it? Well I certainly wouldn't describe it as Petrie being "pressured into standing down by STF", since I think the probability that this is what happened is literally zero.

[Peevemor]

Well I certainly wouldn't describe it as Petrie being "pressured into standing down by STF", since I think the probability that this is what happened is literally zero.

But you can't be sure. It's possible that LD was STF's idea and was imposed on RP.

Anyway, you believe what you want. I don't care.

[Colr]

Thanks for the information - it appreciated by folk who aren't there.

A few thoughts.

Glad to hear that the Farmer Out bunch were a minority. I would not be surprised if Farmer himself was keen to be out, but he has always stated not to sell unless the right people came along.

7200 season tickets is more than I had imagined. Im speculating a little, but Id be surprised if any club outside of Rangers, Celtic, Hearts and Aberdeen has sold as many season tickets.

Some recent attendances in the SPL

Dundee United vs Ross County, Saturday 3pm, attendance: 7179
St Johnstone vs Aberdeen, Saturday 3pm, Attendance: 6377
Inverness vs Celtic, Saturday 3pm, Attendance: 5862

It really is time we had some facts as to how we can be so financially crippled with better crowds (even now) then these clubs, whilst at the same time - living within our means.

I am in support of Leanne Dempster, as she has only just arrived, and obviously is working under the constraints of RP/TF.

However Ive smelt rotten eggs of a financial sort for a long time (and I don't mean corrupt or anything). If the clubs above (the home ones anyway) survive and thrive, what on earth are we doing with our income!?

Paying off a succession of managers can't have helped.

[SanFranHibs]

But you can't be sure. It's possible that LD was STF's idea and was imposed on RP.

Anyway, you believe what you want. I don't care.

I don't know what to believe but it is a lot worse than I had first thought....I'm really enjoying Country music and Don't it make my brown eyes blue!

:violin: :boo hoo:

Good night folks !

[stokesmessiah]

When they said storm I didn't think they mean actual Storm Troopers...

(1st floor window + Is there a 'get my coat smiley')

Can't believe no one has picked up on this comment, superb spot, very funny.

[mentalhibee]

Well done to the Petrie out protesters, the club needs change and to focus on US as a club.... not a slide show on the foundation of hearts. Leanne didn't even seem to know much about what she was presenting on when questions were asked.

[Ronniekirk]

I don't know what to believe but it is a lot worse than I had first thought....I'm really enjoying Country music and Don't it make my brown eyes blue!

:violin: :boo hoo:

Good night folks !

Crystal Gayle if I am not mistaken

[greenpaper55]

Well done to the Petrie out protesters, the club needs change and to focus on US as a club.... not a slide show on the foundation of hearts. Leanne didn't even seem to know much about what she was presenting on when questions were asked.

What questions are you referring to?.

[rcarter1]

Paying off a succession of managers can't have helped.

For sure, and the revelation of a 56 player squad - news to me that we've employed on average 20 more players than Motherwell and the likes. Well my oh my if ever a strategy back fired its ours.

So perhaps Rod Petrie got so giddy at the amounts of money he got for Brown, Thomson, Fletcher et. al. he wanted to create a mass youth club for selling on. Romanov tried the same thing. When J Park left, we lost the ability to spot and develop proper youth players. People on this site spotted it, and a regime that understood how football works, and more importantly footballers work would have had a much better chance of guiding a proper youth policy. In short get them in mean, athletic, aggressive and competitive. Then train them and train them and train them. No point in taking on a bunch of chaps with a bit of skill and a trick or two. These guys fold like napkins when the pressure is on.

Rod Petrie you have completely made an ar*e of this club. In terms of building a football club you are quite simply an incompetent of the highest order.

:brickwall:fuming::bsod::furious:

[HibeeMassive]

Well done to the Petrie out protesters, the club needs change and to focus on US as a club.... not a slide show on the foundation of hearts. Leanne didn't even seem to know much about what she was presenting on when questions were asked.

The slide was part of a wider presentation, designed to get the support thinking about the various ways supporter involvement is working elsewhere and how it could work for us going forward.

Leeann was very knowledgable about all of the other clubs current structures, with regards fan ownership, but at the time of the 'protest' the questions which were put to her were completely out of context so she and Colin (I think his name was) tried to point out they'd be happy to answer questions at the end.

All that happened was that the various delays meant we didn't really get to any other business..

[mentalhibee]

What questions are you referring to?.

I can't remember exactly but it was a question on the foundation of hearts, someone in the audience seemed to answer for her as she "wasn't sure" also never answered the question about fan ownership enabling the fans to have a say on who is elected for the board. As why would we give money to a board that she herself had said hadn't done the best job.

[Bearders]

The protestors came in half way through the meeting and the questions they posed had been gone over at the start mostly. As for wanting "Farmer out now" she later said that would put us in too much danger as we would have no one to turn too in times of financial difficulty. One protestor made a statement and left.



And a very interesting statement it was from a man as passionate about Hibernian FC just like all of us.........................."Straiton back on agenda?!"

[Bronson]

Wasn't able to attend this tonight but I would've liked to. Can anyone give me a quick summary of what was said? Very interested in what LD had to say.

[Jonnyboy]

and a very interesting statement it was from a man as passionate about hibernian fc just like all of us.........................."straiton back on agenda?!"

ffs

[matty_f]

What she actually said tonight was 1 for each position...one under 20...and one in development for each position PLUS a few who could play in a couple of positions if need be...so around 37 players

ggtth

That's what she originally described as well, as far as I can recall. I'm fairly certain she's been consistent with that.

[wills]

What I would like to know is with the ST being kept at Premier prices and correct me if I'm wrong the players taking a pay cut because of relegation, what's happened to the saving made there?

[One Day Soon]

I'll base it on reading this forum. :confused:

There are plenty of us who are saying we can only be persuaded now by action and delivery rather than warm words. You should not misinterpret us taking that as the benchmark for an unwillingness to give her time.

[ancient hibee]

I'm talking about more recent times, not 10+ years ago.

Its easy for the club to say we are reliant on STF when times are dire and questions are being asked. I don't recall much, if any, mutterings of this reliance when we were the so-called "best run club in Scotland".

This club can go on and thrive without Petrie and without STF. I have no doubt about that. Its all too convenient for Hibs to use STF as a necessary doner when backs are against the wall and people are calling for his head. I just don't buy it.

But then i don't buy anything that comes out of the club right now. The trust has evaporated to nothing.

A little bit of info from last accounts-

amount due to the parent company(Farmer and Petrie)£1,750,000

annual mortgage interest £131000
annual mortgage repayments £372000 two mortgages will be paid off by 2018 and 2023 -another mortgage of £2500000 is paid off in a lump sum in 2020.

[Sir David Gray]

Certainly is and more than Dundee United have sold this Season according to United fan I know and look what's on offer there .

I would think that's the fifth highest number in Scotland after Celtc, Sevco, Aberdeen and them.

[Hibby Gav]

That's what she originally described as well, as far as I can recall. I'm fairly certain she's been consistent with that.
Absolutely Matty..my post was in response to a misquote earlier in the thread
ggtth

[jacomo]

I think you should believe it

We are financially sound in so far our assets comfortably outweigh our liabilities and our balance sheet its better than most

However we will rack up big losses this and next year and they :

a) require funding and

b) will reduce the surplus between assets and liabilities

There isn't a Bank in the world that would lend more money to a Scottish Football team at the moment without at best hefty personal guarantees from its owner if at all.

There is absolutely no doubt of this fact

The reason no bank will lend to us is that the assets are aren't realisable. On paper Hibs might be worth £20m but almost all of that is real estate that can't be sold. Even the training centre is on farm land so ain't worth zip to a property developer.

But STF does have money, and surely he can see that Hibs are on a downward spiral and need a radical change in strategy. If we are ever to fill that shiny stadium, that means a new strategy with proper investment behind it.

[ehf]

But you can't be sure. It's possible that LD was STF's idea and was imposed on RP.

:rotflmao:

[Peevemor]

:rotflmao:

:confused:

[NadeAteMyLunch!]

How utterly depressing

[down-the-slope]

Well I don't quite know how to summarise that tonight - it had a bit of everything and was a bit like herding cats for Colin trying to chair....some really good and strident points mixed with a fair amount of hot air and nonsense...and that was just us supporters :wink:

[WHUHibs]

We'll I walked away from the meeting more positive than I walked in! Why well it's quite simple, didn't know what state we are in but I realise his much we are now!

I wanted to ask so many questions but we were well restricted in time and a big congratulations to Colin the master of ceremonies for doing an excellent yet difficult job!

Leeann well I have got to hand it to her as I believe that if Rod really is pulling the strings she is a brilliant liar ! I believe after meeting her if he was pulling the strings did would walk! That's a big turn around from me as Petrie us the last person I want to be at the club. Time will tell but I believe she has to be given time !

[Nailrodders]

Right, back to tonight. Firstly LD came across very well and does a difficult job very well, it would appear that she would like two fans on a restructured board which she thought would ideally would be seven members, it was made apparent that anyone joining the board would have to be willing to give a good slice of their time to this effect. A few ideas were thrown about who would get to vote for those daft enough to put themselves forward and one suggestion was that it should be restricted to ST holders, three different models of fan ownership were given as examples but this is where it got a bit bogged down with no resolution as to how this could be achieved or the time scale for it to happen-don't hold your breath. As others have mentioned TF has been putting his hand in his pocket to steady the ship so i will have to haud ma wheesht on that point...Thanks for the update, but it is this, more than anything else, that leaves me fearing for the future.

Why is this archetypal rearranging of the deckchairs on the Titanic any kind of priority at all right now? What earthly difference will it make if we have two fans on the Board? What are these guys going to do - wave a magic wand and cure all our ills? We already have fans on the Board (not the CEO or the Chairman obviously). Why is it going to be different and better if we get rid of some of the ones we have and replace them with different fans on the Board?

[Peevemor]

Thanks for the update, but it is this, more than anything else, that leaves me fearing for the future.

Why is this archetypal rearranging of the deckchairs on the Titanic any kind of priority at all right now? What earthly difference will it make if we have two fans on the Board? What are these guys going to do - wave a magic wand and cure all our ills? We already have fans on the Board (not the CEO or the Chairman obviously). Why is it going to be different and better if we get rid of some of the ones we have and replace them with different fans on the Board?

Wow!

Damned if they do, damned if they don't!

[Jack]

Accountancy question re STF input.

If he lent and the money was repaid during the same financial year would it need to be detailed in the accounts?

If not then it could point to many more loans than can't be identified.

On tonights meeting I started off taking notes but as it started as a bit of a rabble I lost the will. Some decent chat after that died down and most folk got the hang of what we were there for but still a few red herrings thrown in.

Among all the other crap LD appears to be subject to it must be quite frustrating for her - although I can fully understand the frustration we/I as supporters feel.

Maybe if they, the supporters frustrations, had been given time at the start of the meeting then there would have been more quality to the conversation around the future ownership of the club.

[Heedersnvolleys]

We'll I walked away from the meeting more positive than I walked in! Why well it's quite simple, didn't know what state we are in but I realise his much we are now!

I wanted to ask so many questions but we were well restricted in time and a big congratulations to Colin the master of ceremonies for doing an excellent yet difficult job!

Leeann well I have got to hand it to her as I believe that if Rod really is pulling the strings she is a brilliant liar ! I believe after meeting her if he was pulling the strings did would walk! That's a big turn around from me as Petrie us the last person I want to be at the club. Time will tell but I believe she has to be given time !
How are you more positive if you now realise we are in a much worse a state than you thought?

[PatHead]

There is a lot more Leeann is doing than "re-arranging deckchairs on the Titanic". This is just one of many tasks on her agenda and there is no reason to delay it. The team rebuilding and rebuilding of the club are not mutually exclusive.

[Lucius Apuleius]

None would have been my choice however here is a list of players for so take your pick.

Complete list from the BBC:
James Collins, (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/27698003) forward (Shrewsbury Town, undisclosed); Kevin Thomson, (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/27629572) midfielder (Dundee); James McPake, (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/scotland/Kevin%20Thomson,) defender (Dundee); Paul Cairney, (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/28091890) midfielder (Kilmarnock); Ross Caldwell, (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/28297149) forward (St Mirren); Ryan McGivern, (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/28093952) defender (Port Vale); Alan Maybury, (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/28147322) defender (Falkirk); Tom Taiwo, (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/28147322) midfielder (Falkirk); Bradley Donaldson, defender (Livingston); Ryan Baptie, defender (Inverness Caledonian Thistle); Ben Williams, goalkeeper (Bradford City); Paul Grant, goalkeeper (Livingston); Robert Wilson, defender (Airdrieonians); Jay Doyle, forward (East Stirlingshire); Dean Horribine, midfielder (Berwick Rangers); David Gold, midfielder (Berwick Rangers); Euan Bauld, defender (Berwick Rangers); Sean Murdoch, goalkeeper, Euan Smith, (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/28692881) midfielder (Kilmarnock). Michael Nelson (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/28935343) (Cambridge Utd) Loan ended: Daniel Boateng, defender (Arsenal); Danny Haynes, forward (Notts County); Duncan Watmore, midfielder (Sunderland).

Looks like a fair few have found clubs and are probably main stays.

Okay. Maybe I am misunderstanding you. I think you are saying you are happy that all these players have left? Me too by the way. the ones we have brought in so far seem a lot better than what we have let go, in my opinion of course.

[jacomo]

Wow!

Damned if they do, damned if they don't!

It's about priorities.

Right now the team is performing well below an acceptable level. It has been for ages. This is driving punters away, and even the most committed fans are starting to walk.

Everybody at the club should be focused on getting Hibs back into the SPFL. Instead our CEO, after a round of consultations in the summer, now seems to be focusing on longer term ownership and fans representation, yet also admits the current owner is not actively looking to sell.

Can you or anyone else explain why, because I am scratching my head.

[Nailrodders]

There is a lot more Leeann is doing than "re-arranging deckchairs on the Titanic". This is just one of many tasks on her agenda and there is no reason to delay it. The team rebuilding and rebuilding of the club are not mutually exclusive.Putting "two fans on the Board" is not "rebuilding the club". It's an entirely pointless, superficial, and empty gesture that will achieve the square root of Rockall.

It's exactly what I would expect of a bunch of managerialists. Hey, we've just been relegated out of the worst top division in the history of Scottish football, and now we're nearly bottom of the second division! I know! Let's tinker with the structure of the Board in an entirely meaningless fashion by bringing in two fans instead of two other fans! That'll sort things out, or something...

I don't see that bringing two fans onto the Board will achieve even a superficial change to our fortunes, far less the fundamental transformation that is needed. But if you disagree, by all means feel free to explain what's going to happen, and how it's going to happen.

[Peevemor]

It's about priorities.

Right now the team is performing well below an acceptable level. It has been for ages. This is driving punters away, and even the most committed fans are starting to walk.

Everybody at the club should be focused on getting Hibs back into the SPFL. Instead our CEO, after a round of consultations in the summer, now seems to be focusing on longer term ownership and fans representation, yet also admits the current owner is not actively looking to sell.

Can you or anyone else explain why, because I am scratching my head.

So what's she meant to do? Get her boots on and get out on the training field with the players?

I suspect the club's future ownership, albeit possibly long term, will be on the agenda at the AGM. If they're trying to get the fans onside, then no initiative can be launched without prior supporter consultation - which is what's happening.

[Peevemor]

Putting "two fans on the Board" is not "rebuilding the club". It's an entirely pointless, superficial, and empty gesture that will achieve the square root of Rockall.

It's exactly what I would expect of a bunch of managerialists. Hey, we've just been relegated out of the worst top division in the history of Scottish football, and now we're nearly bottom of the second division! I know! Let's tinker with the structure of the Board in an entirely meaningless fashion by bringing in two fans instead of two other fans! That'll sort things out, or something...

I don't see that bringing two fans onto the Board will achieve even a superficial change to our fortunes, far less the fundamental transformation that is needed. But if you disagree, by all means feel free to explain what's going to happen, and how it's going to happen.

You're trying too hard (again).

Having fan representation on the board is a small part of rebuilding the club. These wouldn't be people that STF knows that happen to be Hibees, but people drawn from/elected by the support. It's all about bringing the club and support closer together, something that people have been crying out for.

But hey, if you want to make an issue out of a feel good initiative just to show us how smart you are (again), don't let me stop you.

[Brads Laing]

When she first came she stated she wanted to have a first pick, a backup that was good enough to step up when needed, and an under 20. More lies.

Just to say the lie is in the original statement above, she said 2 players in every position plus an under 20 ready to step up.

[NAE NOOKIE]

Hey if your happy to just give the club away to anyone then go for it. Plenty fans seem to want to ruin the club, so may as well speed it up.

Would that be the 25,000 on 19/05/2012, or the 25,000 on 26/05/2013 or the 16,000 at the Malmo game or the 16,000 at the New Year derby or the 18,000 at the Hamilton game, or the 7,000 who, like me, bought season tickets for this season.

Plenty fans want to ruin the club ..... Aye right enough, what a bloody cheek they have wanting a new owner after the monumental *** up of the last few years. You may not have noticed but the club is another few bad results away from disaster. How much more ruined do you think a new owner could make it?

Dinnae tell me .............. Leeds Utd, Rangers, The Yams, Portsmouth.

[greenginger]

Accountancy question re STF input.

If he lent and the money was repaid during the same financial year would it need to be detailed in the accounts?

If not then it could point to many more loans than can't be identified.

On tonights meeting I started off taking notes but as it started as a bit of a rabble I lost the will. Some decent chat after that died down and most folk got the hang of what we were there for but still a few red herrings thrown in.

Among all the other crap LD appears to be subject to it must be quite frustrating for her - although I can fully understand the frustration we/I as supporters feel.

Maybe if they, the supporters frustrations, had been given time at the start of the meeting then there would have been more quality to the conversation around the future ownership of the club.


I think the holding company acts as a sort overdraft facility for the football club. When it runs short of cash STF puts funds into the Holding company and the football club can draw on this money which should be repaid when the good times come around. The last bit has not been happening much of late.

And some joker was demanding Farmer's exit . :rolleyes: He did'nt say what stage 2 of his plans were by any chance ?

[1875_1875]

I feel very sorry for LD here, the lassie has came in trying to improve this club, we've given her all of a couple months to change what realistically is a disaster of a club.IMO it'll take a few seasons. She seems to be willing to hear the supporters out, I can't remember off Petrie sitting there three nights on the bounce listening to what I can only imagine the same complaints over and over!

Think we have to face facts we don't have the youngsters playing free flowing football we did years ago, scottish football doesn't generate the money for us to spend the million for sparky everyone was hoping for!

I genuinely think AS will do a good job for us, if he is given a chance! I've seen us actually passing the ball a lot crisper, albeit with not much end product but I'm pretty confident this will come! The games I've seen I still see 100% more improvement then in recent years

So a bit if a ramble there but main point is maybe for a change lets just give LD and AS a bit of backing instead of this constant grief!! End of the day were only 4 games in, I for one will try and stay a positive Hibee


GGTTH

[gegs70]

I feel very sorry for LD here, the lassie has came in trying to improve this club, we've given her all of a couple months to change what realistically is a disaster of a club.IMO it'll take a few seasons. She seems to be willing to hear the supporters out, I can't remember off Petrie sitting there three nights on the bounce listening to what I can only imagine the same complaints over and over!

Think we have to face facts we don't have the youngsters playing free flowing football we did years ago, scottish football doesn't generate the money for us to spend the million for sparky everyone was hoping for!

I genuinely think AS will do a good job for us, if he is given a chance! I've seen us actually passing the ball a lot crisper, albeit with not much end product but I'm pretty confident this will come! The games I've seen I still see 100% more improvement then in recent years

So a bit if a ramble there but main point is maybe for a change lets just give LD and AS a bit of backing instead of this constant grief!! End of the day were only 4 games in, I for one will try and stay a positive Hibee


GGTTH

If we have a poor season in terms of where we finish in the league we may find season tickets dropping again! I would imagine that hibs have reduced the outgoing by cutting the playing staff?

I do agree that in a couple of games we played well however the Alloa game did show that we do not have the depth of squad to mount a serious challenge and that is disapointing....it feels like another season in the wilderness???

[HH81]

You'd really let Eddie Ramsey take over out club?? Or Low? Or maybe Punch Taverns Ltd?

Its clear that LD is looking to push it down a fans ownership model, but this needs to happen slowly and with assurances that the ground and other assets are safe. (I'd expect 51% to stay with the STF estate - after death etc)

In the meantime she is trying to fix the mess we have got into under Petrie.

How is telling the fans your paying SPL prices so we can win this league and then not signing enough players to challenge for it fixing the mess?

[SanFranHibs]

Believe it. The "bail outs" are fact and have featured over the years in the published accounts. Continuing to write that you don't believe it just makes you look daft.

I can remember one year's accounts showing debt (mortgages) of approx £8m and we had about £5m in the bank. At that point in time the debt was only £3m, however Hibs were also spending around £8m per year. By the time you get to February/March (ie. before the STs go on sale), the £5m is long gone with only walk-ups and cup runs to keep things going. This is where the odd bung from our benevolent owner comes in handy.

Not sure which years accounts you are referring to but if there was an 'owners bung' it would be entered as a Credit in Owners Equity, probably a Capital account and a balancing Debit entry in an Asset account, probably Cash or Bank. Would be an easy 'fact' to check. But I have to question your assertion that Hibs had 5 million in the bank and had spent it all, especially in a very short period of time. Hibs I believe publish their accounts through July and you are saying it was gone long before February of the following year? Unlikely!

[ALF TUPPER]

I feel very sorry for LD here, the lassie has came in trying to improve this club, we've given her all of a couple months to change what realistically is a disaster of a club.IMO it'll take a few seasons. She seems to be willing to hear the supporters out, I can't remember off Petrie sitting there three nights on the bounce listening to what I can only imagine the same complaints over and over!

Think we have to face facts we don't have the youngsters playing free flowing football we did years ago, scottish football doesn't generate the money for us to spend the million for sparky everyone was hoping for!

I genuinely think AS will do a good job for us, if he is given a chance! I've seen us actually passing the ball a lot crisper, albeit with not much end product but I'm pretty confident this will come! The games I've seen I still see 100% more improvement then in recent years

So a bit if a ramble there but main point is maybe for a change lets just give LD and AS a bit of backing instead of this constant grief!! End of the day were only 4 games in, I for one will try and stay a positive Hibee


GGTTH

Good post

[Gustavo Fring]

Believe it. The "bail outs" are fact and have featured over the years in the published accounts. Continuing to write that you don't believe it just makes you look daft.

I can remember one year's accounts showing debt (mortgages) of approx £8m and we had about £5m in the bank. At that point in time the debt was only £3m, however Hibs were also spending around £8m per year. By the time you get to February/March (ie. before the STs go on sale), the £5m is long gone with only walk-ups and cup runs to keep things going. This is where the odd bung from our benevolent owner comes in handy.

continuing to state you know the ins and outs of hibs finances as fact , makes you look a bit daft

heres my take on it and no im not stating it as fact

several years ago , hibs raked in somewhere in the region of 10 million plus in player sales , sold a car park for a similar figure

where has all that money gone ? the fact we even needed 'bailed out' after coining all that in suggests that those in charge of the clubs finances have made an utter shop front of running the financial side of the club

this is where having an owner with half a clue about football would come in handy

[wee hay]

In my opinion Ii think this all happened years ago year on year it has got worse and worse Petrie and farmer made these decisions. I think they want the best for the club Petrie is still running it LD is telling you how it is I believe the players are still on high wages for this division! And that's why the spl prices simple like she said we can't afford not to especially with the number of fans that are willing to go!.. As for fans going by other attendances I think is wrong we have a massive support and should have a much higher attendance especially when LD is telling you how much they need you! I mean Livingston are small small club and they trebled there amount of season ticket holders!. I could go on and on! About transfers prev managers we have to support the club we love not hate it!

[wee hay]

And we will sign another striker before next game!

[jax67]

Ask what's happened to the surplus generated by the SPL ST prices ?. As all 8 of our new signings (4 loanees ffs !!) didn't cost the club a penny it makes the decision to keep the prices to last season's levels redundant as the club hasn't had any outlay to make so - where's the money ?

Correct me if this sounds daft. Surely the ST money goes on wages for new signings over the season, and the running costs of the club.

[wee hay]

Correct me if this sounds daft. Surely the ST money goes on wages for new signings over the season, and the running costs of the club.

Yes the running cost of the club is to high like the current players wages

[Weir7]

I think the holding company acts as a sort overdraft facility for the football club. When it runs short of cash STF puts funds into the Holding company and the football club can draw on this money which should be repaid when the good times come around. The last bit has not been happening much of late.

And some joker was demanding Farmer's exit . :rolleyes: He did'nt say what stage 2 of his plans were by any chance ?

Which farmer has been paid back with interest.

With having 100 rod Petrie's I just don't understand how tge football club can rin out of cash. We keep getting told we are a model club and other clubs are on the phone asking how rod does it.

Interesting term to describe the chap who spoke up.

[greenpaper55]

The chap who spoke out never came up with an alternative owner, everybody is very free with other peoples money. For what it's worth i think TF gave Rod to much freedom to run his fiefdom as he liked, a fiefdom he knew and still knows nothing about.

[lucky]

I surprised more has not be said with regards to the threats against LD. I'm struggling to accept that she got threatening texts, unless her mobile number is widely known amongst the support, she also said got threatening tweets that were so bad she could not go home but stayed in a hotel. Again how do people know her address? I would have thought this would have required police attention and a lot of media coverage. But if it did not happen why is she lying to supporters?

[oneone73]

I surprised more has not be said with regards to the threats against LD. I'm struggling to accept that she got threatening texts, unless her mobile number is widely known amongst the support, she also said got threatening tweets that were so bad she could not go home but stayed in a hotel. Again how do people know her address? I would have thought this would have required police attention and a lot of media coverage. But if it did not happen why is she lying to supporters?

Why would tweets drive you to a hotel??

[E10 Rifle]

Some people have strange priorities in life. Storming a fans meeting for gods sake, as if it's the raid on Entebbe.

This raid on Entebbe, is he a striker, and is he any good?

[Golden Bear]

I surprised more has not be said with regards to the threats against LD. I'm struggling to accept that she got threatening texts, unless her mobile number is widely known amongst the support, she also said got threatening tweets that were so bad she could not go home but stayed in a hotel. Again how do people know her address? I would have thought this would have required police attention and a lot of media coverage. But if it did not happen why is she lying to supporters?

:agree:

Some of the personal abuse that has been spouted in this Messageboard against LD is also well out of order. In a way I hope the Police do get involved, rational debate is one thing but threats and personal abuse is something we can all do without.

[Ronniekirk]

Why would tweets drive you to a hotel??
More crucially there would be no reason for her to say this if it wasn't true.its unacceptable behaviour and if she were to move on to another job because it continued and there was more change It really wouldn't be good for the club

[blackpoolhibs]

:agree:

Some of the personal abuse that has been spouted in this Messageboard against LD is also well out of order. In a way I hope the Police do get involved, rational debate is one thing but threats and personal abuse is something we can all do without.

Really, i have not seen it? :confused:

[Viva_Palmeiras]

My how quick some are to turn. It's a mode we do well to get out of were rivalling Aberdeen as a basket case club.

I presume those making accusations of "lying" aren't just throwing it around for effect and would say it to the faces of the accused and stand by it in court? All a bit unsavoury IMO.

For the sack the board dudes maybe take a look at these guys and the carnage since "Smithy must go" rang out - yes the guy that took them to last day of the season needing a draw against Rangers...

[Pretty Boy]

Really, i have not seen it? :confused:

Agreed.

If someone points me towards it I'll happily delete every single threatening or abusive comment.

I've seen a lot of vague stuff about 'the board' being a joke, shambles, clueless etc and some stuff about them/her being liars which is probably verging towards being a bit off but I can't recall anything really nasty. Actually there was one thread telling the OfficialHFC account to '****ing do one' that was deleted.

[WHUHibs]

How are you more positive if you now realise we are in a much worse a state than you thought?

Positive as it was open and transparent about the position. It was good to see LD putting Jamie on the spot with accountancy questions.

My belief after watching body language last night is she will be gunning for people on the board who have not performed. I was dissapointed not having time to ask more questions at the end as the burning one was for Amanda the legal council ! She is an employment lawyer and I wanted to ask why with her 20 year experience does she not tie up contracts to the benefit of Hibs and not seemingly geared to protecting the employee - example would be Butcher- term of contract and exit clauses which are not favourable to us.

LD came across well and was certainly forthright in her views, didn't dodge questions and also illustrated the background.

My impression is certainly she didn't realise what she was walking into but she will take it on. She has one to one meetings with lots of fans if they want to see her and that is admirable as she is not hiding. We may not like what she has to tell but she is straight.

As for RP I still want him out but that cannot just be our tune, we have to be smarter than a one trick pony!

[blackpoolhibs]

My how quick some are to turn. It's a mode we do well to get out of were rivalling Aberdeen as a basket case club.

I presume those making accusations of "lying" aren't just throwing it around for effect and would say it to the faces of the accused and stand by it in court? All a bit unsavoury IMO.

For the sack the board dudes maybe take a look at these guys and the carnage since "Smithy must go" rang out - yes the guy that took them to last day of the season needing a draw against Rangers...

:faf: Aye because thats exactly what we are doing here.

[greenpaper55]

Back on topic for a wee minute last night LD made it known she wants EM to be more of a resource for the community which is fine but do you fancy driving to the depths of east lothian for a game of fives !. She let slip that at EM there is 50 acres or so that is undeveloped ! a truly staggering amount of prime farmland that the club is sitting on while we are scratching about getting in loan players etc. How was this allowed to happen and why has it not been sold for the benefit of the club ?. An earlier poster decried the fact that fans on the board would be a wasted exercise but surely this would not haver happened or brought to our attention at least if we had some board representation.

[overdrive]

Back on topic for a wee minute last night LD made it known she wants EM to be more of a resource for the community which is fine but do you fancy driving to the depths of east lothian for a game of fives !. She let slip that at EM there is 50 acres or so that is undeveloped ! a truly staggering amount of prime farmland that the club is sitting on while we are scratching about getting in loan players etc. How was this allowed to happen and why has it not been sold for the benefit of the club ?. An earlier poster decried the fact that fans on the board would be a wasted exercise but surely this would not haver happened or brought to our attention at least if we had some board representation.

I'm pretty sure this was already in the public domain. I'm guessing there isn't a lot of demand for such land.

[scoopyboy]

Back on topic for a wee minute last night LD made it known she wants EM to be more of a resource for the community which is fine but do you fancy driving to the depths of east lothian for a game of fives !. She let slip that at EM there is 50 acres or so that is undeveloped ! a truly staggering amount of prime farmland that the club is sitting on while we are scratching about getting in loan players etc. How was this allowed to happen and why has it not been sold for the benefit of the club ?. An earlier poster decried the fact that fans on the board would be a wasted exercise but surely this would not haver happened or brought to our attention at least if we had some board representation.

The land itself was bought cheaply IIRC, it was upgrading the buildings and making pitches that pushed the cost up.

As to having a supporter on the board do you really think he or she would have had enough power to stop it going ahead?

And as a by the way the depths of East Lothian is quite a derogatory remark, there are a lot of us stayed in East Lothian all our days and it is within easy reach of a lot of people. If you don't fancy playing fives there then don't but there are plenty who would.

[Coco Bryce]

This is all becoming rather messy.

Seemingly the 'Petrie Out' guys who stormed into the meeting last night have some potentially massive info regarding STF/Petrie dealings. Obviously if this info comes out it will also have to be proven :confused:

God only knows were this is all going :rolleyes:

[scoopyboy]

Quote removed

East Mains is the back of beyond from folks from Edinburgh!!!

Get a grip, and try looking at a map or try going to it.

[Pretty Boy]

East Mains is the back of beyond from folks from Edinburgh!!!

Get a grip, and try looking at a map or try going to it.

Your erse may well be derogatory.

Tbf it does take 50 minutes to reach Tranent on the 26.

That's like a trek across the Sahara for us townies.

[Heedersnvolleys]

Tbf it does take 50 minutes to reach Tranent on the 26.

That's like a trek across the Sahara for us townies.

Did you pack a suitcase :greengrin

[scoopyboy]

Tbf it does take 50 minutes to reach Tranent on the 26.

That's like a trek across the Sahara for us townies.

The 26 is not a compulsory mode of transport though PB.

Once you get past the yokels with pitchforks and various cannibals en route you could easily half that time by taking a car.

I once drove from Easter Road to East Mains in 20 minutes.

[Heedersnvolleys]

Positive as it was open and transparent about the position. It was good to see LD putting Jamie on the spot with accountancy questions.

My belief after watching body language last night is she will be gunning for people on the board who have not performed. I was dissapointed not having time to ask more questions at the end as the burning one was for Amanda the legal council ! She is an employment lawyer and I wanted to ask why with her 20 year experience does she not tie up contracts to the benefit of Hibs and not seemingly geared to protecting the employee - example would be Butcher- term of contract and exit clauses which are not favourable to us.

LD came across well and was certainly forthright in her views, didn't dodge questions and also illustrated the background.

My impression is certainly she didn't realise what she was walking into but she will take it on. She has one to one meetings with lots of fans if they want to see her and that is admirable as she is not hiding. We may not like what she has to tell but she is straight.

As for RP I still want him out but that cannot just be our tune, we have to be smarter than a one trick pony!
Thanks for the reply was curious. How are we in a worse state than you thought?

[Peevemor]

Not sure which years accounts you are referring to but if there was an 'owners bung' it would be entered as a Credit in Owners Equity, probably a Capital account and a balancing Debit entry in an Asset account, probably Cash or Bank. Would be an easy 'fact' to check. But I have to question your assertion that Hibs had 5 million in the bank and had spent it all, especially in a very short period of time. Hibs I believe publish their accounts through July and you are saying it was gone long before February of the following year? Unlikely!

OK. I don't have time to search for accurate info., but at that time we had a turnover of around £8m and were more or less breaking even. This means that the club were spending an average of £666k.

Hibs' financial year is up to the end of July. Therefore, taking the average spend, by the end of March the club will have spent 8 months x £666k = £5.3m+.

As I said, obviously there would have been other income during that period, but there would also have been variations in the expenditure (August signing on fees, sacked managers' pay-offs, etc.).

Because the bulk of ST money is collected before the end of July, most clubs will be at their tightest cashflow wise around March/April.

[HappyAsHellas]

I would imagine bringing forward truth into the public domain that, and I quote from memory, so correct me if I'm wrong:

"Farmer has raped Hibs for twenty years"

Yes, I can't wait to see the evidence for that one.

LD comes across as a very honest and passionate woman who is going to do the very utmost for our club. Some of the people let their obvious agendas get in the way of reasoned discussion and debate which is a shame. Questions have to be answered to our satisfaction, but the constant haggling and refusing to listen to replies said a lot more about the "petrie out" people, putting me off them a bit, if truth be told. If we get two fans on a nine man/woman board, then it has to lead to more involvement and transparency for us does it not?
An interesting term that the finance director used was "aspirational" when talking of the restructuring used by the likes of Dundee Utd etc, unless I picked that up wrongly. The meeting certainly left me a lot happier leaving than I had been when I got there. On the player front, LD says we are only a couple of players away from where we need to be, and said it with some conviction. She sees what is going on, on a day to day basis so time will tell soon enough is she's right with that one.
If you have an invite for tonight then go, ask the right questions, and listen to the answers, anything else is counter productive, irrespective of your views.

And well done to the compere, who handled what could have been nasty scenes with considerable aplomb.

[Peevemor]

continuing to state you know the ins and outs of hibs finances as fact , makes you look a bit daft

Coming from you, that doesn't bother me.


heres my take on it and no im not stating it as fact

several years ago , hibs raked in somewhere in the region of 10 million plus in player sales , sold a car park for a similar figure


Are those not facts then?


where has all that money gone ? the fact we even needed 'bailed out' after coining all that in suggests that those in charge of the clubs finances have made an utter shop front of running the financial side of the club

Hibs debt peaked at £18m+ before the car park sale (Sauzée, Latapy, Zitelli et al didn't come cheap). Most of that money went to debt reduction.

Hibs have since spent £5m on East mains and built the East Stand. Do the sums.


this is where having an owner with half a clue about football would come in handy

You could be right.

[GreenPJ]

Try putting some spin on 2nd tier football and a team losing every week in that division.

We haven't lost every week ;-)

[WHUHibs]

Thanks for the reply was curious. How are we in a worse state than you thought?

I knew we had an issue with letting players go but so many full time players on the books, now cutting down the squad and the realisation of the poor amount of contracts that had been in place shocked me. I feel that on one hand we have very difficult financial situation on cash flow, Jamie claimed the bank of last resort was Tom and I would like to have seen a working capital flow chart which I am sure would have alarmed us. However, on the positive we have 40 acres of prime land in East Mains yet to be developed and therefore we have more assets than I thought.

Am I happy, no I'm not! Do I feel LD is honest yes I do! Do I think Petrie should go yes that hasn't changed! Is the short term future bright no!

I am willing to give her time to get it right otherwise what option do we have? Do we just shout, demonstrate without a clear vision that would prove fruitless.

I know there will be groups of people wanting to invest in the club and the price will be only discussed once she and STF are comfortable that the future can be protected for generations to come. The trick and play should be is to ensure those perimeters are met then really test the metal with what price is required. That will be a defining moment of truth.

In the meantime we have to push for change from within and make sure lip service is not all that is given.

My final impression is that LD does not trust certain parts of the board and I know that a number of the board felt RP had driven through certain decisions that was not agreed with. The test will be LD ensuring that doesn't happen and I really believe she is nobody's patsy so we need to support but at the same time drive RP out.

[Slim Shady]

We haven't lost every week ;-)

You do realise that the only reason we are not bottom of the first division is because our goalkeeper scored a fluke goal.

[Brightside]

I still don't understand what people are demonstrating about. Sack Farmer? Sack Petrie? How does that improve the team as of now. If I win Euromillions next week I'll buy Hibs and invest £30m. In the meantime is like LD to be given a chance to right the wrongs.

[Leithenhibby]

You do realise that the only reason we are not bottom of the first division is because our goalkeeper scored a fluke goal.

The same could be said about Man U and Everton, not every team hits the ground running. We would love to get off to a flyer, but we just need to support our team, it's what we do.

Just breath :wink:

[Coco Bryce]

I still don't understand what people are demonstrating about. Sack Farmer? Sack Petrie? How does that improve the team as of now. If I win Euromillions next week I'll buy Hibs and invest £30m. In the meantime is like LD to be given a chance to right the wrongs.

Would you really :greengrin

[HappyAsHellas]

I know there will be groups of people wanting to invest in the club and the price will be only discussed once she and STF are comfortable that the future can be protected for generations to come. The trick and play should be is to ensure those perimeters are met then really test the metal with what price is required. That will be a defining moment of truth.



Do you believe that the price will be of prime importance? I seemed to get the impression that if the club and it's assets are positively secured then the way would be open for a takeover. I thought that maybe this is why they want our opinions on fans contributions. For what it's worth, I personally see no way the fans could afford it ourselves - I truly believe Hearts will end in disaster. The German model cannot work, purely on demographics alone, and the Dunfermline model is alright for a small club. The Motherwell scheme warns that the fickleness of fans is to be avoided, which I suppose only leaves something like the Swansea model, where fans could perhaps own the 26% which would secure us against asset strippers coming in at a later date. I never believed the "winds of change" mantra before, but after last night, well, maybe there is something in it?

[blackpoolhibs]

I still don't understand what people are demonstrating about. Sack Farmer? Sack Petrie? How does that improve the team as of now. If I win Euromillions next week I'll buy Hibs and invest £30m. In the meantime is like LD to be given a chance to right the wrongs.

I have said numerous times as have most people, that LD talks the talk, but will she be allowed to walk the walk? And again in my opinion, having Petrie there in the background is never going to help her, because many many people have made their minds up about him, and anything other than his removal won't change them.

[GreenPJ]

You do realise that the only reason we are not bottom of the first division is because our goalkeeper scored a fluke goal.


So you did not think we deserved to beat Livingston? First half we were completely dominant, second half we died away but overall we still deserved to win and did. Whether it was a fluky goal is irrelevant it was a goal and it counted. Falkirk we deserved to win but didn't - we never got that flukey or non-flukey goal. That is something we need to improve on taking the many chances we seem to be creating this season.

If you are trying to suggest that we are the worst team in this league then I will dispute that but the only way we will tell is next May not the first week in September.

[Peevemor]

I have said numerous times as have most people, that LD talks the talk, but will she be allowed to walk the walk? And again in my opinion, having Petrie there in the background is never going to help her, because many many people have made their minds up about him, and anything other than his removal won't change them.

But the reality could be that it's essential to her. RP has the ear and the trust of STF. LD may be getting the leeway to do what she want's because RP is there to smooth the way for her.

I've no idea if this is the case, but it's certainly a possibility.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

:faf: Aye because thats exactly what we are doing here.

Sorry forgot your sitting on yer bahookie boycotting? from Blackpool... ;)

[WHUHibs]

Do you believe that the price will be of prime importance? I seemed to get the impression that if the club and it's assets are positively secured then the way would be open for a takeover. I thought that maybe this is why they want our opinions on fans contributions. For what it's worth, I personally see no way the fans could afford it ourselves - I truly believe Hearts will end in disaster. The German model cannot work, purely on demographics alone, and the Dunfermline model is alright for a small club. The Motherwell scheme warns that the fickleness of fans is to be avoided, which I suppose only leaves something like the Swansea model, where fans could perhaps own the 26% which would secure us against asset strippers coming in at a later date. I never believed the "winds of change" mantra before, but after last night, well, maybe there is something in it?

I don't believe any of those models will work and we need to develop something new and workable. I think LD has her own ideas but we have a chance to shape our future and put forward something that we believe in! The option is we don't and nothing will change!

[Hermit Crab]

More crucially there would be no reason for her to say this if it wasn't true.its unacceptable behaviour and if she were to move on to another job because it continued and there was more change It really wouldn't be good for the club


I dont think even petrie got threats of this nature! Do people see LD as an easier target because she is a female? Really bad if this did happen.

[jacomo]

So what's she meant to do? Get her boots on and get out on the training field with the players?

I suspect the club's future ownership, albeit possibly long term, will be on the agenda at the AGM. If they're trying to get the fans onside, then no initiative can be launched without prior supporter consultation - which is what's happening.

I'd expect LD to focus on the most pressing priorities. She must have known since day 1 in the job that this would be a very busy transfer window, with 14 players released at the end of last season. Once Butcher was relieved of his duties, it became even more pressing because Stubbs would obviously have different targets in mind.

Any 'consultation' with fans would have told her - if she didn't already know - that the performance of the first team was THE most pressing priority for the supporters.

And yet here we are in early September, with many fans in open revolt about our fairly dismal start to the season, and LD is holding meetings about longer term ownership and fan involvement??

When you are in a crisis, deal with the crisis. Everything else can wait. I think her decision to hold these meetings now (coinciding with the end of the transfer window) was a real lapse in judgement.

[WHUHibs]

I dont think even petrie got threats of this nature! Do people see LD as an easier target because she is a female? Really bad if this did happen.

I think anyone putting themselves in the firing line would feel the heat, male or female! I think that she gives as good as she gets and can look after herself.

[WHUHibs]

I'd expect LD to focus on the most pressing priorities. She must have known since day 1 in the job that this would be a very busy transfer window, with 14 players released at the end of last season. Once Butcher was relieved of his duties, it became even more pressing because Stubbs would obviously have different targets in mind.

Any 'consultation' with fans would have told her - if she didn't already know - that the performance of the first team was THE most pressing priority for the supporters.

And yet here we are in early September, with many fans in open revolt about our fairly dismal start to the season, and LD is holding meetings about longer term ownership and fan involvement??

When you are in a crisis, deal with the crisis. Everything else can wait. I think her decision to hold these meetings now (coinciding with the end of the transfer window) was a real lapse in judgement.

Don't agree,,,I think the malaise we are in there won't be a good time so why not now? Releasing players and reducing from 56 or 58 according to some down to 37 seems sensible? We could argue about the quality we have brought in but timing I think anytime is a bad time.

[jacomo]

Don't agree,,,I think the malaise we are in there won't be a good time so why not now? Releasing players and reducing from 56 or 58 according to some down to 37 seems sensible? We could argue about the quality we have brought in but timing I think anytime is a bad time.

I don't disagree about the drop in overall size of the squad, but this just reinforces my point that Hibs had a lot of business to do this summer - moving players out as well as bringing them in. Arguably we have not been radical enough on reshaping the team.


Other clubs - more successful clubs - seem to focus absolutely on TDD. When they don't (like Wenger travelling to Italy on Monday) they get criticised. Unexpected players can suddenly become available and may require the club to rethink its strategy to get a deal done.

That's why I think TDD is a very bad time for the CEO to be focusing on something else - especially in our case.

[ronaldo7]

Back on topic for a wee minute last night LD made it known she wants EM to be more of a resource for the community which is fine but do you fancy driving to the depths of east lothian for a game of fives !. She let slip that at EM there is 50 acres or so that is undeveloped ! a truly staggering amount of prime farmland that the club is sitting on while we are scratching about getting in loan players etc. How was this allowed to happen and why has it not been sold for the benefit of the club ?. An earlier poster decried the fact that fans on the board would be a wasted exercise but surely this would not haver happened or brought to our attention at least if we had some board representation.

Interesting. I wonder if all the Infrastructure projects are finished yet.:wink:

[WHUHibs]

I don't disagree about the drop in overall size of the squad, but this just reinforces my point that Hibs had a lot of business to do this summer - moving players out as well as bringing them in. Arguably we have not been radical enough on reshaping the team.


Other clubs - more successful clubs - seem to focus absolutely on TDD. When they don't (like Wenger travelling to Italy on Monday) they get criticised. Unexpected players can suddenly become available and may require the club to rethink its strategy to get a deal done.

That's why I think TDD is a very bad time for the CEO to be focusing on something else - especially in our case.

Fair comment but it's hard to radically get rid of players on contract. My biggest issue is how we allowed so many journeymen and management to get contracts which were all about the employee not the employer!

[jacomo]

Fair comment but it's hard to radically get rid of players on contract. My biggest issue is how we allowed so many journeymen and management to get contracts which were all about the employee not the employer!

:agree:

You'd think we'd learn our lesson, although players like LC and SR should have been sure bets. TBF, LC was reasonably effective for Pat, the manager who signed him.

[Leith Mo]

Apologies not had time to read the thread.
I was at last night's meeting and had the opportunity to ask quite a few questions (sorry if I hogged too much time!). Anyway, I thought I'd wait until today to post my summary of events - and again apologies if I've confused anything or anyone's point and/or also missed out things which were said - had a few post-meeting autopsy drinks to reflect so mind a bit (more) clouded today! As the Chairman of the meeting explained that the session was being recorded so he wouldn't miss anything when he came to summarising procedings for later communication I look forward to reading with interest.

Anyway, here goes my attempt. After reading the comments about loads of empty seats and the events of TDD, it was good to see so many actually go along - fair play to those who didn't I almost joined them but didn't in the end. Most gathered downstairs Behind the Goals and had a free tea/coffee and a pie (the smaller "mini" steak pies as served in hospitality which as other poster have said were thoroughly enjoyable not the muck we endure in the East -more on that later) whilst many other had a pint or two to relax.

Moved upstairs where Colin - well done that Man by the way! - introduced the meeting and laid out the format of the evening as proposed. This was planned to be a "game of two halves" firstly: "Representation" and secondly: "Ownership." Under "Representation" there were two or three bullet points including something like: "Is it wanted and what would it look like?" "A Board presence?" and the last one definitely read "Barriers/Obstacles". The slide on "Ownership" proposed to look at various options which other Clubs have/currently trying and also the German Bundesliga model, the intention being to discuss these as possible future operating models for Hibs. Colin then asked for any questions. He and the Board Members present on the Panel - LD; Jamie from Finance; and Amanda from Legal/HR - were immediately informed by one member of the audience that people didn't really want to discuss an agenda such as outlined, but cared more about players on the park and the "failings" of the transfer window and actual investment in the team on the park. This was well-received by members of the audience.

LD seemed happy to take this point on and insisted that we'd invested more than many other Clubs, certainly Motherwell during her time there but that the money had not been spent "wisely" historically - a point enhanced upon later in the evening when she discussed her views of the composition of the squad.

I then asked a question re the entire premise on which the evening was based ie why was there the differentiation between "Representation" and "Ownership" We are all "representative" of HFC whilst not all of us are "owners" in a financial sense, diferentiating between "stakeholders" and "shareholders" seemed a flawed approach. I asked if the intention was to have 2 "Fan Directors" on the Board, then would they have the authority as "stakeholders" representing both "Financial" and "Emotional" if you like to put it that way "Owners" to propose a motion of no confidence at Board level in Rod Petrie who in my opinion was failing in his role as Chairman and his responsibilities as a Director and had outstayed his tenure. Generally again this seemed to be well-received by the audience, and was answered candidly by LD.

The point of Mr Petrie's continued presence was brought up later in the discussion in the context of "Barriers" to fan "representation" and more generally in the context of our current situation as a Club. Further questions followed regarding how any new Directors from the broader fan base would be selected - various options looked at including database, season tickets, supporters club etc but Colin said that it looked pretty much that the preferred way of engaging with supporters in this aspect would be to use the Client Reference numbers which the Club has on its database. Various members of the audience briefly mentioned their backgrounds and whilst not canvassing for jobs themselves I think the general point was that as a support there are many people with the professional expertise and goodwill to assist the Club. Questions were asked re the commitment involved, which were largely answered by Amanda.

Amanda answered that the time commitment was pretty onerous impacting on family life, holidays as well as her day job (Lawyer with extensive Employment Law experience). As a Non-Exec she does not receive a salary from Hibs, I think she said the Board meets once a month, but logistics of getting everyone in the same room can be difficult. (There are 9 directors; 5 NEDs and 4 Executive Directors). As an aside I got the impression that Hibs don't have video-conferencing facilities which I found surprising given that we offer conference facilities? Board meeting could take anything up to four hours or longer, and generally she attended all matches home and away as wells as effectively being on call for any issues arising. She also pointed out that she like all other Directors on the Board were "fans" first and foremost. LD said that Saturday's defeat was "a dismal, disastrous result" and I pointed out it was refreshing to actually hear a Director of the Club use those words rather than watching RP smirk on TV when we were relegated, which prompted Amanda to defend RP saying "he never smirked" to which I and the room generally replied that the camera didn't lie.

Further questions followed re the actual corporate structure of Hibs. Jamie (FD) explained that the ownership of the footbal club was held by Hibernian Holdings which is effectively STF and RP plus minority shareholders combined at c.4%. There was a discussion as to why STF didn't name a price and for LD to state exactly what the required amount was. To this she responded that she hadn't been brought in with a remit by STF and RP to actively market the Club for sale, that STF's position on a sale was clear re the conditions he wished to be met etc, but no actual figure was given. Some felt she was dodging the question and whilst partly agreeing with this, I think she handled it well in the circumstances.

He was asked how much of the income from catering at the stadium actually went to the football club and not to the Holding company (this is where the point about the poor quality of the pies in the East was mentioned in passing) and answered that it "all goes to Hibs." It wasn't clear to me which part of Hibs (Holding or Football - I've been told by some informed sources that it doesn't go to the Football Club).

There were other matters discussed including football transfers. When Jamie said that he and the Board would approve any player deal the manager wished to pursue there was almost uproar as people seemed to take his comment at face value. For me he struggled to explain fully his point in the face of much criticism/shouting and passed it over to LD. She explained that the Board would set the Budget the manager has at disposal and the Board would discuss player comings and goings in that framework not in the manner of actually selecting players for the manager who has that remit but more in terms of financial management than football ability criteria. The conversation then moved on to budget realities and our lack thereof where things got pretty heated.

Part Two follows separate post

[Leith Mo]

Moving on to ownership it was proposed to look at the models of Dunfermline; Motherwell; the West Edinburgh Cheats; and the German Bundesliga.

On Dunfermline, LD outlined that the structure relied upon a splitting of the stadium (Stadia Co) and the football club in to two separate entities. A fan based group "Pars Utd" had bought out 94% of the football club (the remainder being held by private individuals who had chosen not to sell to and/or be involved with the group) and also owns a "blocking" interest of 25.1% of the stadium - this prevents any change of use or development of the ground as anything other than a football stadium which I think the slide said is on a 30 year lease back to the Football Club. LD emphasised that this "asset block" was something that a lot of fans felt historically uncomfortable with but that the 0.1% over the 25% was the key - ie it blocked any attempt to entirely divorce the stadium from football. It wasn't clear who owns the rest of the stadium. There is also another fund raising initiative led by Jim Leishman which helps to fund the fan ownership group. This had all arisen after administration.

On Motherwell, LD was for obvious reasons more knowledgeable.John Boyle had given her and 3/4 other directors Power of Attorney over his shares in the Club as he sought a way to give them over to fan ownership (there was no insolvency event here that was earlier in Motherwell's history). This developed into the Well Society which operated a graded membership scale although it was very much "One Vote" each no matter how much money members had put in. The problem she said was continuity of funding and the failure to attract as many "higher end contributions" as expected. She confirmed that she is proud to remain a Member of the Well Society which I take as a personal commitment to fan ownership and what they tried to achieve at Motherwell. (There are no SPFL or SFARules preventing her continued membership "and nor should there be").



Next came Those Whose Name We Shall Not Speak. This prompted calls of "I'm not interested in talking about them" etc and pretty much general mayhem culminating in, given that the key protagonist has boxing connections in Edinburgh "The Main Event of the Evening" and the announcement of the arrival of the "Stormtroopers." I must admit, I didn't see them before the meeting, and didn't here them as they "Stormed" the room rather saw them sitting talking amongst themselves, asking a question here and there (sorry I can't remember what about as it was wiped out by what happened next) and being generally well behaved.

So, what I remember happening is this: BW began demanding vociferously that "Farmer and Petrie get out of our Club" when no clear answer was, in his opinion given on how often/much STF had put into Hibs and who exactly was Hibs "Lender of Last Resort." I think this was as a result of the pretty heated atmosphere at the time when lots of people were asking BW to sit down and be quiet/not shout. Telling the audience that he had heard enough and that he would "tell you all the true nature of Farmer's financial dealings with Hibs" he left the proceedings to applause (I'll let the reader decide which aspect was being applauded).

Finally the Bundesliga model where LD explained in her view that it would not be possible in Scotland without the involvement of all Scottish Clubs and Hibs couldn't do this unilaterally. She explained that local government had paid for considerable improvements in infrastructure for German Clubs including roads, rail links etc as well as stadium facilities. (This last bit made me think of our own dear Council and its love-in with them). Time constraints prevented a further discussion of this model which was pretty much dismissed as a non-starter.

Right, thanks for bearing with this ramble and again please don't have a go if I've missed anything or got anything wrong - happy to be corrected, and as I said at the outset Colin - once again great job - is going to present a formal summary for everyoine on all that goes on over the course of the meetings not just last night's.

In closing, I remain committed to Petrie Out as I explained to LD after the meeting, and will never "roll over" (as some on her who know me will attest to!). I went in fuming, I left telling LD that I remain angry about what has happened/is happening. However, I applaud her for the initiative. Is she truthful in what she said? I had my doubts, not any more. Is she a politician? In that role she has to be, but she manages it well without coming across as condescending. Is she a Petrie puppet? I don't think so, but as long as he is there the accusation remains with or without due cause.

Is she committed to Hibernian and getting it right? On the evidence of last night, even for somebody as cynical as I tend to be, ABSOLUTELY!

[Hibby Gav]

Moving on to ownership it was proposed to look at the models of Dunfermline; Motherwell; the West Edinburgh Cheats; and the German Bundesliga.

On Dunfermline, LD outlined that the structure relied upon a splitting of the stadium (Stadia Co) and the football club in to two separate entities. A fan based group "Pars Utd" had bought out 94% of the football club (the remainder being held by private individuals who had chosen not to sell to and/or be involved with the group) and also owns a "blocking" interest of 25.1% of the stadium - this prevents any change of use or development of the ground as anything other than a football stadium which I think the slide said is on a 30 year lease back to the Football Club. LD emphasised that this "asset block" was something that a lot of fans felt historically uncomfortable with but that the 0.1% over the 25% was the key - ie it blocked any attempt to entirely divorce the stadium from football. It wasn't clear who owns the rest of the stadium. There is also another fund raising initiative led by Jim Leishman which helps to fund the fan ownership group. This had all arisen after administration.

On Motherwell, LD was for obvious reasons more knowledgeable.John Boyle had given her and 3/4 other directors Power of Attorney over his shares in the Club as he sought a way to give them over to fan ownership (there was no insolvency event here that was earlier in Motherwell's history). This developed into the Well Society which operated a graded membership scale although it was very much "One Vote" each no matter how much money members had put in. The problem she said was continuity of funding and the failure to attract as many "higher end contributions" as expected. She confirmed that she is proud to remain a Member of the Well Society which I take as a personal commitment to fan ownership and what they tried to achieve at Motherwell. (There are no SPFL or SFARules preventing her continued membership "and nor should there be").



Next came Those Whose Name We Shall Not Speak. This prompted calls of "I'm not interested in talking about them" etc and pretty much general mayhem culminating in, given that the key protagonist has boxing connections in Edinburgh "The Main Event of the Evening" and the announcement of the arrival of the "Stormtroopers." I must admit, I didn't see them before the meeting, and didn't here them as they "Stormed" the room rather saw them sitting talking amongst themselves, asking a question here and there (sorry I can't remember what about as it was wiped out by what happened next) and being generally well behaved.

So, what I remember happening is this: BW began demanding vociferously that "Farmer and Petrie get out of our Club" when no clear answer was, in his opinion given on how often/much STF had put into Hibs and who exactly was Hibs "Lender of Last Resort." I think this was as a result of the pretty heated atmosphere at the time when lots of people were asking BW to sit down and be quiet/not shout. Telling the audience that he had heard enough and that he would "tell you all the true nature of Farmer's financial dealings with Hibs" he left the proceedings to applause (I'll let the reader decide which aspect was being applauded).

Finally the Bundesliga model where LD explained in her view that it would not be possible in Scotland without the involvement of all Scottish Clubs and Hibs couldn't do this unilaterally. She explained that local government had paid for considerable improvements in infrastructure for German Clubs including roads, rail links etc as well as stadium facilities. (This last bit made me think of our own dear Council and its love-in with them). Time constraints prevented a further discussion of this model which was pretty much dismissed as a non-starter.

Right, thanks for bearing with this ramble and again please don't have a go if I've missed anything or got anything wrong - happy to be corrected, and as I said at the outset Colin - once again great job - is going to present a formal summary for everyoine on all that goes on over the course of the meetings not just last night's.

In closing, I remain committed to Petrie Out as I explained to LD after the meeting, and will never "roll over" (as some on her who know me will attest to!). I went in fuming, I left telling LD that I remain angry about what has happened/is happening. However, I applaud her for the initiative. Is she truthful in what she said? I had my doubts, not any more. Is she a politician? In that role she has to be, but she manages it well without coming across as condescending. Is she a Petrie puppet? I don't think so, but as long as he is there the accusation remains with or without due cause.

Is she committed to Hibernian and getting it right? On the evidence of last night, even for somebody as cynical as I tend to be, ABSOLUTELY!

Thanks for this...a very accurate summing up of the meeting

ggtth

[WeeRussell]

Leith Mo - thanks for taking the time and effort for that. Something worthwhile reading and, in particular your closing statements, heartening to hear. :aok:

[Hibstrooper]

the arrival of the "Stormtroopers."

That wasnae me by the way :greengrin

Thanks for taking the time to post all that, very informative :aok:

[Beefster]

Back on topic for a wee minute last night LD made it known she wants EM to be more of a resource for the community which is fine but do you fancy driving to the depths of east lothian for a game of fives !. She let slip that at EM there is 50 acres or so that is undeveloped ! a truly staggering amount of prime farmland that the club is sitting on while we are scratching about getting in loan players etc. How was this allowed to happen and why has it not been sold for the benefit of the club ?. An earlier poster decried the fact that fans on the board would be a wasted exercise but surely this would not haver happened or brought to our attention at least if we had some board representation.

It's only a five minute drive from my house so it would be ideal.

PS Edinburgh to Tranent outside rush hour is about 25 mins driving.

[WHUHibs]

Moving on to ownership it was proposed to look at the models of Dunfermline; Motherwell; the West Edinburgh Cheats; and the German Bundesliga.

On Dunfermline, LD outlined that the structure relied upon a splitting of the stadium (Stadia Co) and the football club in to two separate entities. A fan based group "Pars Utd" had bought out 94% of the football club (the remainder being held by private individuals who had chosen not to sell to and/or be involved with the group) and also owns a "blocking" interest of 25.1% of the stadium - this prevents any change of use or development of the ground as anything other than a football stadium which I think the slide said is on a 30 year lease back to the Football Club. LD emphasised that this "asset block" was something that a lot of fans felt historically uncomfortable with but that the 0.1% over the 25% was the key - ie it blocked any attempt to entirely divorce the stadium from football. It wasn't clear who owns the rest of the stadium. There is also another fund raising initiative led by Jim Leishman which helps to fund the fan ownership group. This had all arisen after administration.

On Motherwell, LD was for obvious reasons more knowledgeable.John Boyle had given her and 3/4 other directors Power of Attorney over his shares in the Club as he sought a way to give them over to fan ownership (there was no insolvency event here that was earlier in Motherwell's history). This developed into the Well Society which operated a graded membership scale although it was very much "One Vote" each no matter how much money members had put in. The problem she said was continuity of funding and the failure to attract as many "higher end contributions" as expected. She confirmed that she is proud to remain a Member of the Well Society which I take as a personal commitment to fan ownership and what they tried to achieve at Motherwell. (There are no SPFL or SFARules preventing her continued membership "and nor should there be").



Next came Those Whose Name We Shall Not Speak. This prompted calls of "I'm not interested in talking about them" etc and pretty much general mayhem culminating in, given that the key protagonist has boxing connections in Edinburgh "The Main Event of the Evening" and the announcement of the arrival of the "Stormtroopers." I must admit, I didn't see them before the meeting, and didn't here them as they "Stormed" the room rather saw them sitting talking amongst themselves, asking a question here and there (sorry I can't remember what about as it was wiped out by what happened next) and being generally well behaved.

So, what I remember happening is this: BW began demanding vociferously that "Farmer and Petrie get out of our Club" when no clear answer was, in his opinion given on how often/much STF had put into Hibs and who exactly was Hibs "Lender of Last Resort." I think this was as a result of the pretty heated atmosphere at the time when lots of people were asking BW to sit down and be quiet/not shout. Telling the audience that he had heard enough and that he would "tell you all the true nature of Farmer's financial dealings with Hibs" he left the proceedings to applause (I'll let the reader decide which aspect was being applauded).

Finally the Bundesliga model where LD explained in her view that it would not be possible in Scotland without the involvement of all Scottish Clubs and Hibs couldn't do this unilaterally. She explained that local government had paid for considerable improvements in infrastructure for German Clubs including roads, rail links etc as well as stadium facilities. (This last bit made me think of our own dear Council and its love-in with them). Time constraints prevented a further discussion of this model which was pretty much dismissed as a non-starter.

Right, thanks for bearing with this ramble and again please don't have a go if I've missed anything or got anything wrong - happy to be corrected, and as I said at the outset Colin - once again great job - is going to present a formal summary for everyoine on all that goes on over the course of the meetings not just last night's.

In closing, I remain committed to Petrie Out as I explained to LD after the meeting, and will never "roll over" (as some on her who know me will attest to!). I went in fuming, I left telling LD that I remain angry about what has happened/is happening. However, I applaud her for the initiative. Is she truthful in what she said? I had my doubts, not any more. Is she a politician? In that role she has to be, but she manages it well without coming across as condescending. Is she a Petrie puppet? I don't think so, but as long as he is there the accusation remains with or without due cause.

Is she committed to Hibernian and getting it right? On the evidence of last night, even for somebody as cynical as I tend to be, ABSOLUTELY!

I was sitting in your row at the end and also asked some pertinent questions. I have to say I was impressed with LD but less with Amanda! Her vociferous defence of RP not smirking irked me but she did elude to hindsight on decisions which I feel sure RP railroaded. However, she is responsible for player contracts legally yet she did not protect the club in case of exit clauses,,,so perhaps LD needs to look at this in time to come.

[Keith_M]

Thanks Leith Mo for your summation. Much appreciated

:thumbsup:

[Iain G]

Moving on to ownership it was proposed to look at the models of Dunfermline; Motherwell; the West Edinburgh Cheats; and the German Bundesliga.

On Dunfermline, LD outlined that the structure relied upon a splitting of the stadium (Stadia Co) and the football club in to two separate entities. A fan based group "Pars Utd" had bought out 94% of the football club (the remainder being held by private individuals who had chosen not to sell to and/or be involved with the group) and also owns a "blocking" interest of 25.1% of the stadium - this prevents any change of use or development of the ground as anything other than a football stadium which I think the slide said is on a 30 year lease back to the Football Club. LD emphasised that this "asset block" was something that a lot of fans felt historically uncomfortable with but that the 0.1% over the 25% was the key - ie it blocked any attempt to entirely divorce the stadium from football. It wasn't clear who owns the rest of the stadium. There is also another fund raising initiative led by Jim Leishman which helps to fund the fan ownership group. This had all arisen after administration.

On Motherwell, LD was for obvious reasons more knowledgeable.John Boyle had given her and 3/4 other directors Power of Attorney over his shares in the Club as he sought a way to give them over to fan ownership (there was no insolvency event here that was earlier in Motherwell's history). This developed into the Well Society which operated a graded membership scale although it was very much "One Vote" each no matter how much money members had put in. The problem she said was continuity of funding and the failure to attract as many "higher end contributions" as expected. She confirmed that she is proud to remain a Member of the Well Society which I take as a personal commitment to fan ownership and what they tried to achieve at Motherwell. (There are no SPFL or SFARules preventing her continued membership "and nor should there be").



Next came Those Whose Name We Shall Not Speak. This prompted calls of "I'm not interested in talking about them" etc and pretty much general mayhem culminating in, given that the key protagonist has boxing connections in Edinburgh "The Main Event of the Evening" and the announcement of the arrival of the "Stormtroopers." I must admit, I didn't see them before the meeting, and didn't here them as they "Stormed" the room rather saw them sitting talking amongst themselves, asking a question here and there (sorry I can't remember what about as it was wiped out by what happened next) and being generally well behaved.

So, what I remember happening is this: BW began demanding vociferously that "Farmer and Petrie get out of our Club" when no clear answer was, in his opinion given on how often/much STF had put into Hibs and who exactly was Hibs "Lender of Last Resort." I think this was as a result of the pretty heated atmosphere at the time when lots of people were asking BW to sit down and be quiet/not shout. Telling the audience that he had heard enough and that he would "tell you all the true nature of Farmer's financial dealings with Hibs" he left the proceedings to applause (I'll let the reader decide which aspect was being applauded).

Finally the Bundesliga model where LD explained in her view that it would not be possible in Scotland without the involvement of all Scottish Clubs and Hibs couldn't do this unilaterally. She explained that local government had paid for considerable improvements in infrastructure for German Clubs including roads, rail links etc as well as stadium facilities. (This last bit made me think of our own dear Council and its love-in with them). Time constraints prevented a further discussion of this model which was pretty much dismissed as a non-starter.

Right, thanks for bearing with this ramble and again please don't have a go if I've missed anything or got anything wrong - happy to be corrected, and as I said at the outset Colin - once again great job - is going to present a formal summary for everyoine on all that goes on over the course of the meetings not just last night's.

In closing, I remain committed to Petrie Out as I explained to LD after the meeting, and will never "roll over" (as some on her who know me will attest to!). I went in fuming, I left telling LD that I remain angry about what has happened/is happening. However, I applaud her for the initiative. Is she truthful in what she said? I had my doubts, not any more. Is she a politician? In that role she has to be, but she manages it well without coming across as condescending. Is she a Petrie puppet? I don't think so, but as long as he is there the accusation remains with or without due cause.

Is she committed to Hibernian and getting it right? On the evidence of last night, even for somebody as cynical as I tend to be, ABSOLUTELY!

So who is this BW character or did I miss something somewhere? :confused:

[Leith Mo]

Well known Hibs Boy. Now a boxing promoter/gym proprietor who I'm pretty sure has a football banning order against him? As he left he also said that he is now a "social commentator" though I have no idea about that aspect

[Gus]

Good effort Leith Mo. Very informative.

[Iain G]

Well known Hibs Boy. Now a boxing promoter/gym proprietor who I'm pretty sure has a football banning order against him? As he left he also said that he is now a "social commentator" though I have no idea about that aspect

Still none the wiser :greengrin

Oh lordy just found his Facebook page and found this, think I prefer your version of events Mo:

Tonight, LIANNE DEMPSTER's (the smoke screen lady implanted by Rod Petrie) 'Hibernian Supporters consultation' at Easter Road heard some "Home Truths" when, having arrived somewhat late, UNINVITED and after listening to only but 4minutes of LIANNE reading from her Farmer/Petrie script I couldn't HOLD anymore..... It was the sight of the Pre-invited / vetted APATHETIC white mice sitting nodding there heads accepting this cleverly orchestrated PITCH........I asked Ms Dempster if TOM FARMER was going to, as he promised when he undertook Hibs £300.000 debt in 1991. "Leave the club and stadium for the community and Hibernian supporters?" As you know Ms Dempster needs permission from Petrie, to talk, act, answer (not the girls fault really ) and Petrie answers only to sir Tom!! I said one or two other things ( not the time to repeat) Some of the apathetic mice tried to heckle me etc....but as I told them, I tell you ITS TIME THE TRUTH CAME OUT ABOUT FARMER and PETRIE's DEALINGS WITH Hibernian Fc. Hibernian Holdings and the countless other subsidiary companies that have assisted "them" to gain financially to the detriment of Hibernian..........(some people heckled at me when I kindly left, huge mistake because it has galvanised me tenfold... I'm an industrious, workaholic when it comes to SOCIAL INJUSTICE.......... this is it "HANDS ON HIBS" "FARMER OUT" The Truth about FARMER will follow.....

[Brightside]

Moving on to ownership it was proposed to look at the models of Dunfermline; Motherwell; the West Edinburgh Cheats; and the German Bundesliga.

On Dunfermline, LD outlined that the structure relied upon a splitting of the stadium (Stadia Co) and the football club in to two separate entities. A fan based group "Pars Utd" had bought out 94% of the football club (the remainder being held by private individuals who had chosen not to sell to and/or be involved with the group) and also owns a "blocking" interest of 25.1% of the stadium - this prevents any change of use or development of the ground as anything other than a football stadium which I think the slide said is on a 30 year lease back to the Football Club. LD emphasised that this "asset block" was something that a lot of fans felt historically uncomfortable with but that the 0.1% over the 25% was the key - ie it blocked any attempt to entirely divorce the stadium from football. It wasn't clear who owns the rest of the stadium. There is also another fund raising initiative led by Jim Leishman which helps to fund the fan ownership group. This had all arisen after administration.

On Motherwell, LD was for obvious reasons more knowledgeable.John Boyle had given her and 3/4 other directors Power of Attorney over his shares in the Club as he sought a way to give them over to fan ownership (there was no insolvency event here that was earlier in Motherwell's history). This developed into the Well Society which operated a graded membership scale although it was very much "One Vote" each no matter how much money members had put in. The problem she said was continuity of funding and the failure to attract as many "higher end contributions" as expected. She confirmed that she is proud to remain a Member of the Well Society which I take as a personal commitment to fan ownership and what they tried to achieve at Motherwell. (There are no SPFL or SFARules preventing her continued membership "and nor should there be").



Next came Those Whose Name We Shall Not Speak. This prompted calls of "I'm not interested in talking about them" etc and pretty much general mayhem culminating in, given that the key protagonist has boxing connections in Edinburgh "The Main Event of the Evening" and the announcement of the arrival of the "Stormtroopers." I must admit, I didn't see them before the meeting, and didn't here them as they "Stormed" the room rather saw them sitting talking amongst themselves, asking a question here and there (sorry I can't remember what about as it was wiped out by what happened next) and being generally well behaved.

So, what I remember happening is this: BW began demanding vociferously that "Farmer and Petrie get out of our Club" when no clear answer was, in his opinion given on how often/much STF had put into Hibs and who exactly was Hibs "Lender of Last Resort." I think this was as a result of the pretty heated atmosphere at the time when lots of people were asking BW to sit down and be quiet/not shout. Telling the audience that he had heard enough and that he would "tell you all the true nature of Farmer's financial dealings with Hibs" he left the proceedings to applause (I'll let the reader decide which aspect was being applauded).

Finally the Bundesliga model where LD explained in her view that it would not be possible in Scotland without the involvement of all Scottish Clubs and Hibs couldn't do this unilaterally. She explained that local government had paid for considerable improvements in infrastructure for German Clubs including roads, rail links etc as well as stadium facilities. (This last bit made me think of our own dear Council and its love-in with them). Time constraints prevented a further discussion of this model which was pretty much dismissed as a non-starter.

Right, thanks for bearing with this ramble and again please don't have a go if I've missed anything or got anything wrong - happy to be corrected, and as I said at the outset Colin - once again great job - is going to present a formal summary for everyoine on all that goes on over the course of the meetings not just last night's.

In closing, I remain committed to Petrie Out as I explained to LD after the meeting, and will never "roll over" (as some on her who know me will attest to!). I went in fuming, I left telling LD that I remain angry about what has happened/is happening. However, I applaud her for the initiative. Is she truthful in what she said? I had my doubts, not any more. Is she a politician? In that role she has to be, but she manages it well without coming across as condescending. Is she a Petrie puppet? I don't think so, but as long as he is there the accusation remains with or without due cause.

Is she committed to Hibernian and getting it right? On the evidence of last night, even for somebody as cynical as I tend to be, ABSOLUTELY!

:top marks

[Brightside]

Well known Hibs Boy. Now a boxing promoter/gym proprietor who I'm pretty sure has a football banning order against him? As he left he also said that he is now a "social commentator" though I have no idea about that aspect

He's at the game every week so he can't be banned.

[WHUHibs]

It's only a five minute drive from my house so it would be ideal.

PS Edinburgh to Tranent outside rush hour is about 25 mins driving.

Perhaps the bigger picture is being missed! It won't be for just football it will be a large community project including all aspects of children through to adults! It could easily be used by companies, charities etc and build a community around it. At the same time it will still be used by Hibs elite footballers and I use that term loosely at the moment.

[WHUHibs]

Still none the wiser :greengrin

Oh lordy just found his Facebook page and found this, think I prefer your version of events Mo:

Tonight, LIANNE DEMPSTER's (the smoke screen lady implanted by Rod Petrie) 'Hibernian Supporters consultation' at Easter Road heard some "Home Truths" when, having arrived somewhat late, UNINVITED and after listening to only but 4minutes of LIANNE reading from her Farmer/Petrie script I couldn't HOLD anymore..... It was the sight of the Pre-invited / vetted APATHETIC white mice sitting nodding there heads accepting this cleverly orchestrated PITCH........I asked Ms Dempster if TOM FARMER was going to, as he promised when he undertook Hibs £300.000 debt in 1991. "Leave the club and stadium for the community and Hibernian supporters?" As you know Ms Dempster needs permission from Petrie, to talk, act, answer (not the girls fault really ) and Petrie answers only to sir Tom!! I said one or two other things ( not the time to repeat) Some of the apathetic mice tried to heckle me etc....but as I told them, I tell you ITS TIME THE TRUTH CAME OUT ABOUT FARMER and PETRIE's DEALINGS WITH Hibernian Fc. Hibernian Holdings and the countless other subsidiary companies that have assisted "them" to gain financially to the detriment of Hibernian..........(some people heckled at me when I kindly left, huge mistake because it has galvanised me tenfold... I'm an industrious, workaholic when it comes to SOCIAL INJUSTICE.......... this is it "HANDS ON HIBS" "FARMER OUT" The Truth about FARMER will follow.....

I remember a long time ago a lot of this was spouted and I'm sure there might be some truth in some of the business dealings but is that what we want? First if all let's secure Hibs future and if STF and RP did things that were to the detriment of the club then I am sure that can be addressed?

[superfurryhibby]

I remember a long time ago a lot of this was spouted and I'm sure there might be some truth in some of the business dealings but is that what we want? First if all let's secure Hibs future and if STF and RP did things that were to the detriment of the club then I am sure that can be addressed?

I remember that Simon Pia wrote a few articles in Scotland on Sunday about STF and finances at Hibs. It was strongly worded and some of the folk he interviewed (Glen Ross was one of them I recall) said that STF was basically milking the club. I wondered why STF didn't take legal action against the paper. I would love to see these articles again, anyone got a link to them? I can't say exactly when these articles were written, perhaps late 1990's?

[Franck Stanton]

I've done likewise. I'm too angry to attend.

Dear Leeann Dempster,

I thank you for your invitation to the 'Hibernian Supporters Consultation'.

With regret I have decided not to attend. I have no interest in listening to liars. The custodians of this club have yet again betrayed our confidence.

Furthermore I gather Mr David Forsyth is in attendance at these meetings discussing future ownership as Rome burns. His attendance and continued patronising input tells every supporter all we need to know about the continuing disrespect for Hibernian supporters from the top of the club.

"Wind of change" was promised. Where is it? Then we were told that our inflated Season Ticket charges would remain so the maximum budget could be given to the latest managerial appointment set up to fail and be the fall guy. The business concluded throughout this window is confirmation that the club has no ambition to seriously compete for promotion.

I deeply regret purchasing the season tickets I did for me and my son. I suspect that you will find many others feel likewise. It is so sad that thanks to the best efforts of our clubs custodians we are now a club with a completely disenfranchised support base. Those who reluctantly bought season tickets and now regret doing so and the thousands staying away.

The current status doesn't lie. The club is currently in its worse league position in its history.

Shame on the lot of you for your lies.

Good letter, express what I/we feel. Well said.

[southsider]

I remember that Simon Pia wrote a few articles in Scotland on Sunday about STF and finances at Hibs. It was strongly worded and some of the folk he interviewed (Glen Ross was one of them I recall) said that STF was basically milking the club. I wondered why STF didn't take legal action against the paper. I would love to see these articles again, anyone got a link to them? I can't say exactly when these articles were written, perhaps late 1990's?
He did get Simon sacked by threatening to withhold advertising unless they sacked Simon. Glen is i think STF's cousin and repeatedly warned fans about STF. We are in debt to STF and the bank up to out oxters and we have no money.

[silverhibee]

The 26 is not a compulsory mode of transport though PB.

Once you get past the yokels with pitchforks and various cannibals en route you could easily half that time by taking a car.

I once drove from Easter Road to East Mains in 20 minutes.


Was just about to say this, from my house to EM will take me about 20-25 minutes in the car during the day or night time, it's the guy hiding in the bushes that worries me when i get there. :greengrin

[Leith Mo]

I remember that Simon Pia wrote a few articles in Scotland on Sunday about STF and finances at Hibs. It was strongly worded and some of the folk he interviewed (Glen Ross was one of them I recall) said that STF was basically milking the club. I wondered why STF didn't take legal action against the paper. I would love to see these articles again, anyone got a link to them? I can't say exactly when these articles were written, perhaps late 1990's?

Simon Pia is also assisting Paul on Hibernian Forever/Petrie Out so I think he's also published something more recently?

[silverhibee]

You do realise that the only reason we are not bottom of the first division is because our goalkeeper scored a fluke goal.

Don't no why but that made me laugh, then i realised it's true and it's back to :boo hoo:

[silverhibee]

The same could be said about Man U and Everton, not every team hits the ground running. We would love to get off to a flyer, but we just need to support our team, it's what we do.

Just breath :wink:


Were David de Gea and Tim Howards goals better than Oxley's. :greengrin

[silverhibee]

But the reality could be that it's essential to her. RP has the ear and the trust of STF. LD may be getting the leeway to do what she want's because RP is there to smooth the way for her.

I've no idea if this is the case, but it's certainly a possibility.

Why have a middle man, just let LD go straight to STF.

[silverhibee]

I dont think even petrie got threats of this nature! Do people see LD as an easier target because she is a female? Really bad if this did happen.

I hope she has reported it to Scottish Police.

Have the tweets been deleted.

[Peevemor]

Why have a middle man, just let LD go straight to STF.

I agree, but if STF wants a "conduit" ...

[southsider]

There was talk about the "spare" land at East Mains being used for a school and perhaps a (private?) hospital. Does Hibernian Football Club own this land or does it belong to Farmer ?

[Keith_M]

Well known Hibs Boy. Now a boxing promoter/gym proprietor who I'm pretty sure has a football banning order against him? As he left he also said that he is now a "social commentator" though I have no idea about that aspect


Wee Brad?

Wouldn't wanna get on his wrong side.

[ancient hibee]

He did get Simon sacked by threatening to withhold advertising unless they sacked Simon. Glen is i think STF's cousin and repeatedly warned fans about STF. We are in debt to STF and the bank up to out oxters and we have no money.

Total rubbish from start to finish.

[SteveHFC]

Wee Brad?

Wouldn't wanna get on his wrong side.

I met Brad in Maribor. Sound guy :agree:

[southsider]

Total rubbish from start to finish.
Not so,sir. Why do you think Simon "left" the paper ?

[Mathias Jack]

Moving on to ownership it was proposed to look at the models of Dunfermline; Motherwell; the West Edinburgh Cheats; and the German Bundesliga.

On Dunfermline, LD outlined that the structure relied upon a splitting of the stadium (Stadia Co) and the football club in to two separate entities. A fan based group "Pars Utd" had bought out 94% of the football club (the remainder being held by private individuals who had chosen not to sell to and/or be involved with the group) and also owns a "blocking" interest of 25.1% of the stadium - this prevents any change of use or development of the ground as anything other than a football stadium which I think the slide said is on a 30 year lease back to the Football Club. LD emphasised that this "asset block" was something that a lot of fans felt historically uncomfortable with but that the 0.1% over the 25% was the key - ie it blocked any attempt to entirely divorce the stadium from football. It wasn't clear who owns the rest of the stadium. There is also another fund raising initiative led by Jim Leishman which helps to fund the fan ownership group. This had all arisen after administration.

On Motherwell, LD was for obvious reasons more knowledgeable.John Boyle had given her and 3/4 other directors Power of Attorney over his shares in the Club as he sought a way to give them over to fan ownership (there was no insolvency event here that was earlier in Motherwell's history). This developed into the Well Society which operated a graded membership scale although it was very much "One Vote" each no matter how much money members had put in. The problem she said was continuity of funding and the failure to attract as many "higher end contributions" as expected. She confirmed that she is proud to remain a Member of the Well Society which I take as a personal commitment to fan ownership and what they tried to achieve at Motherwell. (There are no SPFL or SFARules preventing her continued membership "and nor should there be").



Next came Those Whose Name We Shall Not Speak. This prompted calls of "I'm not interested in talking about them" etc and pretty much general mayhem culminating in, given that the key protagonist has boxing connections in Edinburgh "The Main Event of the Evening" and the announcement of the arrival of the "Stormtroopers." I must admit, I didn't see them before the meeting, and didn't here them as they "Stormed" the room rather saw them sitting talking amongst themselves, asking a question here and there (sorry I can't remember what about as it was wiped out by what happened next) and being generally well behaved.

So, what I remember happening is this: BW began demanding vociferously that "Farmer and Petrie get out of our Club" when no clear answer was, in his opinion given on how often/much STF had put into Hibs and who exactly was Hibs "Lender of Last Resort." I think this was as a result of the pretty heated atmosphere at the time when lots of people were asking BW to sit down and be quiet/not shout. Telling the audience that he had heard enough and that he would "tell you all the true nature of Farmer's financial dealings with Hibs" he left the proceedings to applause (I'll let the reader decide which aspect was being applauded).

Finally the Bundesliga model where LD explained in her view that it would not be possible in Scotland without the involvement of all Scottish Clubs and Hibs couldn't do this unilaterally. She explained that local government had paid for considerable improvements in infrastructure for German Clubs including roads, rail links etc as well as stadium facilities. (This last bit made me think of our own dear Council and its love-in with them). Time constraints prevented a further discussion of this model which was pretty much dismissed as a non-starter.

Right, thanks for bearing with this ramble and again please don't have a go if I've missed anything or got anything wrong - happy to be corrected, and as I said at the outset Colin - once again great job - is going to present a formal summary for everyoine on all that goes on over the course of the meetings not just last night's.

In closing, I remain committed to Petrie Out as I explained to LD after the meeting, and will never "roll over" (as some on her who know me will attest to!). I went in fuming, I left telling LD that I remain angry about what has happened/is happening. However, I applaud her for the initiative. Is she truthful in what she said? I had my doubts, not any more. Is she a politician? In that role she has to be, but she manages it well without coming across as condescending. Is she a Petrie puppet? I don't think so, but as long as he is there the accusation remains with or without due cause.

Is she committed to Hibernian and getting it right? On the evidence of last night, even for somebody as cynical as I tend to be, ABSOLUTELY!

Great summary of last night's events for those of us who weren't there... :top marks :aok:

[ancient hibee]

Not so,sir. Why do you think Simon "left" the paper ?

When he left the paper the days of Kwik Fit advertising(which were a dead loss for the papers anyway-horrendous to set up and easy to make mistakes) were long gone and Simon had moved on from sport and wrote a parliamentary log for the Scotsman well after any criticism of STF.Johnston Press were shedding journalists all over the place-still are-and Simon was able to pick up a nice job through Holyrood connections.

[1two]

I had in my head this meeting was tonight! Have I missed it or is their another?

[BSEJVT]

Well done to Leith Mo for actually going along despite his earlier reservations.

Its a great credit to him that not only did he report the proceedings but did so objectively and felt able to accept some of what he was told.

Quite honestly that is our only chance of getting out this nightmare.

We all have our own positions which are becoming increasingly entrenched.

Until something better comes along we need to approach this situation with an open mind and work with board, not against it, before we will being to see any chance of improvements.

[Pedantic_Hibee]

Tbf it does take 50 minutes to reach Tranent on the 26.

That's like a trek across the Sahara for us townies.

There have allegedly been 27 suicides on the 26 before it's even reached Musselburgh. An absolute wrist-slitter of a bus. I'd rather walk back to Tranent from town than suffer the eye-bleeding depression that a 26 can spark off in you.

[Deansy]

Apologies not had time to read the thread.
I was at last night's meeting and had the opportunity to ask quite a few questions (sorry if I hogged too much time!). Anyway, I thought I'd wait until today to post my summary of events - and again apologies if I've confused anything or anyone's point and/or also missed out things which were said - had a few post-meeting autopsy drinks to reflect so mind a bit (more) clouded today! As the Chairman of the meeting explained that the session was being recorded so he wouldn't miss anything when he came to summarising procedings for later communication I look forward to reading with interest.

Anyway, here goes my attempt. After reading the comments about loads of empty seats and the events of TDD, it was good to see so many actually go along - fair play to those who didn't I almost joined them but didn't in the end. Most gathered downstairs Behind the Goals and had a free tea/coffee and a pie (the smaller "mini" steak pies as served in hospitality which as other poster have said were thoroughly enjoyable not the muck we endure in the East -more on that later) whilst many other had a pint or two to relax.

Moved upstairs where Colin - well done that Man by the way! - introduced the meeting and laid out the format of the evening as proposed. This was planned to be a "game of two halves" firstly: "Representation" and secondly: "Ownership." Under "Representation" there were two or three bullet points including something like: "Is it wanted and what would it look like?" "A Board presence?" and the last one definitely read "Barriers/Obstacles". The slide on "Ownership" proposed to look at various options which other Clubs have/currently trying and also the German Bundesliga model, the intention being to discuss these as possible future operating models for Hibs. Colin then asked for any questions. He and the Board Members present on the Panel - LD; Jamie from Finance; and Amanda from Legal/HR - were immediately informed by one member of the audience that people didn't really want to discuss an agenda such as outlined, but cared more about players on the park and the "failings" of the transfer window and actual investment in the team on the park. This was well-received by members of the audience.

LD seemed happy to take this point on and insisted that we'd invested more than many other Clubs, certainly Motherwell during her time there but that the money had not been spent "wisely" historically - a point enhanced upon later in the evening when she discussed her views of the composition of the squad.

I then asked a question re the entire premise on which the evening was based ie why was there the differentiation between "Representation" and "Ownership" We are all "representative" of HFC whilst not all of us are "owners" in a financial sense, diferentiating between "stakeholders" and "shareholders" seemed a flawed approach. I asked if the intention was to have 2 "Fan Directors" on the Board, then would they have the authority as "stakeholders" representing both "Financial" and "Emotional" if you like to put it that way "Owners" to propose a motion of no confidence at Board level in Rod Petrie who in my opinion was failing in his role as Chairman and his responsibilities as a Director and had outstayed his tenure. Generally again this seemed to be well-received by the audience, and was answered candidly by LD.

The point of Mr Petrie's continued presence was brought up later in the discussion in the context of "Barriers" to fan "representation" and more generally in the context of our current situation as a Club. Further questions followed regarding how any new Directors from the broader fan base would be selected - various options looked at including database, season tickets, supporters club etc but Colin said that it looked pretty much that the preferred way of engaging with supporters in this aspect would be to use the Client Reference numbers which the Club has on its database. Various members of the audience briefly mentioned their backgrounds and whilst not canvassing for jobs themselves I think the general point was that as a support there are many people with the professional expertise and goodwill to assist the Club. Questions were asked re the commitment involved, which were largely answered by Amanda.

Amanda answered that the time commitment was pretty onerous impacting on family life, holidays as well as her day job (Lawyer with extensive Employment Law experience). As a Non-Exec she does not receive a salary from Hibs, I think she said the Board meets once a month, but logistics of getting everyone in the same room can be difficult. (There are 9 directors; 5 NEDs and 4 Executive Directors). As an aside I got the impression that Hibs don't have video-conferencing facilities which I found surprising given that we offer conference facilities? Board meeting could take anything up to four hours or longer, and generally she attended all matches home and away as wells as effectively being on call for any issues arising. She also pointed out that she like all other Directors on the Board were "fans" first and foremost. LD said that Saturday's defeat was "a dismal, disastrous result" and I pointed out it was refreshing to actually hear a Director of the Club use those words rather than watching RP smirk on TV when we were relegated, which prompted Amanda to defend RP saying "he never smirked" to which I and the room generally replied that the camera didn't lie.

Further questions followed re the actual corporate structure of Hibs. Jamie (FD) explained that the ownership of the footbal club was held by Hibernian Holdings which is effectively STF and RP plus minority shareholders combined at c.4%. There was a discussion as to why STF didn't name a price and for LD to state exactly what the required amount was. To this she responded that she hadn't been brought in with a remit by STF and RP to actively market the Club for sale, that STF's position on a sale was clear re the conditions he wished to be met etc, but no actual figure was given. Some felt she was dodging the question and whilst partly agreeing with this, I think she handled it well in the circumstances.

He was asked how much of the income from catering at the stadium actually went to the football club and not to the Holding company (this is where the point about the poor quality of the pies in the East was mentioned in passing) and answered that it "all goes to Hibs." It wasn't clear to me which part of Hibs (Holding or Football - I've been told by some informed sources that it doesn't go to the Football Club).

There were other matters discussed including football transfers. When Jamie said that he and the Board would approve any player deal the manager wished to pursue there was almost uproar as people seemed to take his comment at face value. For me he struggled to explain fully his point in the face of much criticism/shouting and passed it over to LD. She explained that the Board would set the Budget the manager has at disposal and the Board would discuss player comings and goings in that framework not in the manner of actually selecting players for the manager who has that remit but more in terms of financial management than football ability criteria. The conversation then moved on to budget realities and our lack thereof where things got pretty heated.

Part Two follows separate post

Well then, Amanda either -

A) - Missed it ?

B) - is a liar ?

I know I DID see him smirking/smiling - anyone out there with a clip ?. Tried 'YouTube' but nothing.

[Danderhall Hibs]

Not so,sir. Why do you think Simon "left" the paper ?
To become a social commentator or talk 107?

[The Green Goblin]

"Apathetic mice" - mental

Thanks Mo for taking the time to type that out. Much appreciated!!

[blackpoolhibs]

Sorry forgot your sitting on yer bahookie boycotting? from Blackpool... ;)

And will be staying like that bar Pats Birthday for the foreseeable future, like many many others.

[schinkenotto]

Really, i have not seen it? :confused:

Open your eyes.The people insulting her are a disgrace.She is probably the best thing that has happened to Hibs for many a year and has only been here for a couple of months.Unlike the lawyer on the board,she has ensured that if Stubbs doesn't work out,there will no repetition of the Butcher "gardening leave" fiasco.

While I share the frustration expressed here,a modicum of courtesy to LD would not come amiss.

[blackpoolhibs]

Open your eyes.The people insulting her are a disgrace.She is probably the best thing that has happened to Hibs for many a year and has only been here for a couple of months.Unlike the lawyer on the board,she has ensured that if Stubbs doesn't work out,there will no repetition of the Butcher "gardening leave" fiasco.

While I share the frustration expressed here,a modicum of courtesy to LD would not come amiss.

Where are these posts insulting her? I see plenty folk including myself saying shes been put in charge and hung out to dry, but i don't see anyone abusing her, in fact quite the opposite?

And my eyes appear to be open, i'm typing this and watching the Germany game as the same time.

[Gerard]

Open your eyes.The people insulting her are a disgrace.She is probably the best thing that has happened to Hibs for many a year and has only been here for a couple of months.Unlike the lawyer on the board,she has ensured that if Stubbs doesn't work out,there will no repetition of the Butcher "gardening leave" fiasco.

While I share the frustration expressed here,a modicum of courtesy to LD would not come amiss.

:top marks

[schinkenotto]

Where are these posts insulting her? I see plenty folk including myself saying shes been put in charge and hung out to dry, but i don't see anyone abusing her, in fact quite the opposite?

And my eyes appear to be open, i'm typing this and watching the Germany game as the same time.

She's been called a "liar","stooge" and "patsy" on this site and received obscene E-mails.tweets and texts.All I'm talking about is common decency to someone who is doing her best in a situation not of her own making.Frustration with those responsible for the shambles we're in should not be taken out on her

[JimBHibees]

Open your eyes.The people insulting her are a disgrace.She is probably the best thing that has happened to Hibs for many a year and has only been here for a couple of months.Unlike the lawyer on the board,she has ensured that if Stubbs doesn't work out,there will no repetition of the Butcher "gardening leave" fiasco.

While I share the frustration expressed here,a modicum of courtesy to LD would not come amiss.

Completely agree difference between frustration and neddish behaviour. Quite why she should be the target for any abuse being just in the door I really don't understand.

[Bearders]

She's been called a "liar","stooge" and "patsy" on this site and received obscene E-mails.tweets and texts.All I'm talking about is common decency to someone who is doing her best in a situation not of her own making.Frustration with those responsible for the shambles we're in should not be taken out on her

Completely agree. The lawyer, who has been 17 years at the Club and was too quick of the mark to defend RP regarding Leith Mo's "smirk" comment, has presided over years of failure. How has she survived this shambles if each Board member has a say in decisions?

[jacomo]

Completely agree. The lawyer, who has been 17 years at the Club and was too quick of the mark to defend RP regarding Leith Mo's "smirk" comment, has presided over years of failure. How has she survived this shambles if each Board member has a say in decisions?

Because she's an expert in employment law and makes sure Hibs always have the upper hand in employee negotiations.

[rcarter1]

Because she's an expert in employment law and makes sure Hibs always have the upper hand in employee negotiations.

And perhaps why players feel like sheep on entry to the club?

[ekhibee]

There have allegedly been 27 suicides on the 26 before it's even reached Musselburgh. An absolute wrist-slitter of a bus. I'd rather walk back to Tranent from town than suffer the eye-bleeding depression that a 26 can spark off in you.
Ah, the good old days..before we moved from Tranent to the west, the best bus was the Eastern Scottish (green) bus that went along the A1, or the 85 because it missed out Prestonpans. Changed days since then obviously!

[Bearders]

Because she's an expert in employment law and makes sure Hibs always have the upper hand in employee negotiations.

She just stopped short of stating that. She also told us that the atmosphere in the Boardroom had changed for the better - on the back of the start to the season I suggest she gets her arse out of the "Exec" seats and gets in amongst the paying punters.

[blackpoolhibs]

She's been called a "liar","stooge" and "patsy" on this site and received obscene E-mails.tweets and texts.All I'm talking about is common decency to someone who is doing her best in a situation not of her own making.Frustration with those responsible for the shambles we're in should not be taken out on her

Oh my god, get the police in and arrest these people. If thats the kind of abuse she's having to put up with on here, no wonder she wont use the account she's set up. :rolleyes:

I agree that obscene texts tweets and emails are completely out of order and should the people be caught then they deserve all they get, but if you take the kind of job she has at a football club, then liar stooge and patsy are hardly abuse, especially when in my opinion she has told lies or mislead, and its still up for debate whether she's a patsy for the real folk still at the club who should be getting all the abuse.

[silverhibee]

Ah, the good old days..before we moved from Tranent to the west, the best bus was the Eastern Scottish (green) bus that went along the A1, or the 85 because it missed out Prestonpans. Changed days since then obviously!

Aye, the bus is a s**t colour now.

[ancient hibee]

Oh my god, get the police in and arrest these people. If thats the kind of abuse she's having to put up with on here, no wonder she wont use the account she's set up. :rolleyes:

I agree that obscene texts tweets and emails are completely out of order and should the people be caught then they deserve all they get, but if you take the kind of job she has at a football club, then liar stooge and patsy are hardly abuse, especially when in my opinion she has told lies or mislead, and its still up for debate whether she's a patsy for the real folk still at the club who should be getting all the abuse.

So have you contacted her in person to tell her you think she's been telling lies or misleading supporters?

[Jonnyboy]

Oh my god, get the police in and arrest these people. If thats the kind of abuse she's having to put up with on here, no wonder she wont use the account she's set up. :rolleyes:

I agree that obscene texts tweets and emails are completely out of order and should the people be caught then they deserve all they get, but if you take the kind of job she has at a football club, then liar stooge and patsy are hardly abuse, especially when in my opinion she has told lies or mislead, and its still up for debate whether she's a patsy for the real folk still at the club who should be getting all the abuse.

You keep peddling this view G. You do realise that just because you choose to disbelieve her doesn't mean she is lying or misleading? Personally I think your constant referral to her as a liar is nothing short of condescending bill5hit

[ancient hibee]

You keep peddling this view G. You do realise that just because you choose to disbelieve her doesn't mean she is lying or misleading? Personally I think your constant referral to her as a liar is nothing short of condescending bill5hit


Hear hear.

[stantonhibby]

Oh my god, get the police in and arrest these people. If thats the kind of abuse she's having to put up with on here, no wonder she wont use the account she's set up. :rolleyes:

I agree that obscene texts tweets and emails are completely out of order and should the people be caught then they deserve all they get, but if you take the kind of job she has at a football club, then liar stooge and patsy are hardly abuse, especially when in my opinion she has told lies or mislead, and its still up for debate whether she's a patsy for the real folk still at the club who should be getting all the abuse.


I would class being called a liar as pretty abusive.

[blackpoolhibs]

You keep peddling this view G. You do realise that just because you choose to disbelieve her doesn't mean she is lying or misleading? Personally I think your constant referral to her as a liar is nothing short of condescending bill5hit

Telling us we were going to try and get out this league this season was bull, and her trying to boost season ticket sales. Admirable but we were never then or indeed now going to make any kind of effort to get out this league this season.

I'm going out on the pull on Saturday night and i will be trying my hardest to pump Jennifer Aniston. Now perhaps her not being in the country nevermind Blackpool might make it a tad difficult, but i will be giving it my all.

It was spin, the same kind we have heard year after year.

[Jonnyboy]

Telling us we were going to try and get out this league this season was bull, and her trying to boost season ticket sales. Admirable but we were never then or indeed now going to make any kind of effort to get out this league this season.

I'm going out on the pull on Saturday night and i will be trying my hardest to pump Jennifer Aniston. Now perhaps her not being in the country nevermind Blackpool might make it a tad difficult, but i will be giving it my all.

It was spin, the same kind we have heard year after year.

Tell me, what would you have said if she had answered the question "we want to get out of this league this season, but we might not" what would you have said then G?

[ronaldo7]

Just back from the meeting tonight after a couple of pints when it finished.

Started off briskly with more of a football slant, and George Craig there to take the flak. Lots of Petrie out stuff, but the majority of the voices were looking for answers from the board about what the plan is. How much will it take? Is it all of the Club or just part? etc.

When we got into the meat of the meeting, Leeann had been sitting for 40 minutes listening to the views when challenged by a fan to tell us what the plans were.

You're pushing at an open door was one of her responses.

Leeann told us she had a plan but was wanting to do the consultation with fans to see if they would buy in to, or have some ingenious plan never heard of before. She wasn't going to share her plan this evening.

Lots of good suggestions about how we should move forward on share/club ownership and representation.

My Take on this evening.

STF is holding ALL the cards here as owner of the club. He has sent the board out to do his bidding, and to test the water about fan ownership/representation.

If the plan which Leeann or anyone else has, does not measure up to how STF wants the club to be run, then it won't happen.

I do believe STF has a plan for the club, whether that be separating the assets(ground and east mains) from the club(footballing side), and the fans buying the club(FS).

Only time will tell, but my take on this evening is that there won't be a single owner of our club in the future.

[blackpoolhibs]

Tell me, what would you have said if she had answered the question "we want to get out of this league this season, but we might not" what would you have said then G?

I'd have been mad as hell, but you will now say damned if she did damned if she dont, well she did say it and she never meant it. And if she did she's deluded, which i really doubt.

[Jonnyboy]

I'd have been mad as hell, but you will now say damned if she did damned if she dont, well she did say it and she never meant it. And if she did she's deluded, which i really doubt.

So now you're reading her mind too?

I'm pig sick of the flack handed out to LD and your constant sniping from afar doesn't help G

Get yourself up here, meet with her and ask your questions instead of accusing her of lying and misleading

[blackpoolhibs]

So now you're reading her mind too?

I'm pig sick of the flack handed out to LD and your constant sniping from afar doesn't help G

Get yourself up here, meet with her and ask your questions instead of accusing her of lying and misleading

John, i dont blame her for ANY of whats happening now, not one bit of it. I actually think she comes across VERY well and i think she has all the tools to make a success of the club. But she's not perfect, and i think what she said about this seasons ambitions were misleading, and the consequent result of the results and the transfer window tells me the club is being run in exactly the same way as it was under Petrie.

Her words and what's happened this season still makes me conclude nothing gets passed before he has a look.

[Jonnyboy]

John, i dont blame her for ANY of whats happening now, not one bit of it. I actually think she comes across VERY well and i think she has all the tools to make a success of the club. But she's not perfect, and i think what she said about this seasons ambitions were misleading, and the consequent result of the results and the transfer window tells me the club is being run in exactly the same way as it was under Petrie.

Her words and what's happened this season still makes me conclude nothing gets passed before he has a look.

Doesn't make her a liar though G, something you have called her on numerous occasions

[blackpoolhibs]

Doesn't make her a liar though G, something you have called her on numerous occasions

I think i have only said she lied once John, mislead is the word i have used mostly. And i still hold that view.

[Billy Whizz]

Thought Leeann looked worn out tonight. She said she'd been in crisis management since she joined Hibs. Said she loves the job, and glad she took it on.
Someone asked if she had access to STF, or had to go through Rod, said she had direct access.
Said she had met STF yesterday

[gegs70]

what are they doing to encourage more fans young and old to come to the games? They certainly are not encoraging people with the signings (loan deals) nor has the football been absolutely great? I even consider the cost for the type of football played tends to scare people away just is not worth it?

[Jonnyboy]

I think i have only said she lied once John, mislead is the word i have used mostly. And i still hold that view.

We'll have to agree to differ then G. I've seen the liar/lied words on a few occasions

Anyway, I'm too old to be up this late so I'm off to the land of nod

[Gerard]

We'll have to agree to differ then G. I've seen the liar/lied words on a few occasions

Anyway, I'm too old to be up this late so I'm off to the land of nod

Sweet dreams Mr JC:top marks

[Peevemor]

what are they doing to encourage more fans young and old to come to the games? They certainly are not encoraging people with the signings (loan deals) nor has the football been absolutely great? I even consider the cost for the type of football played tends to scare people away just is not worth it?

Giving hundreds of free tickets to schools?

Giving away 7000 free tickets for an upcoming home game?

[jacomo]

Thought Leeann looked worn out tonight. She said she'd been in crisis management since she joined Hibs. Said she loves the job, and glad she took it on.
Someone asked if she had access to STF, or had to go through Rod, said she had direct access.
Said she had met STF yesterday

Crisis management sounds about right.

These consultations could surely have waited for a few months while LD and their team focused everything on preparing for this season?

We've brought in 8 players during the window, which is a fair bit of business, but the squad is painfully light in certain areas and we've had a bad start. It's not about her putting the cones out herself, but doing everything possible to create the right environment for our new manager (sorry, Head Coach) to flourish. This feels to me like a crazy distraction at the wrong moment.

[Mibbes Aye]

I think i have only said she lied once John, mislead is the word i have used mostly. And i still hold that view.

Man up.

If you are admitting you are repeatedly accusing her of misleading us then why not call that what it is?

Call her dishonest. And take responsibility for it.

[BSEJVT]

Maybe her (relative outsider) at the time's view was that with the budget we had available and those players that remained on the books that we should be able to be giving it a right go (or whatever the actual phrase was)

She will have known full what Motherwell achieved on their budget.

You can tell from reading between the lines that as her knowledge of the club has increased, that she cant believe what a shambles we truly are and how far below standard some of our players are performing.

She absolutely couldn't have said anything else or would have been nailed to the wall and wont be the first or last person involved in football to get their expectations ahead of the reality.

Its becoming increasingly clear that there is no other realistic game in town other than the agenda she will be pushing to change the ownership structure at ER.

I for one never truly believed there would be as buying a Scottish Football Club makes no commercial or rational sense whatsoever.

I don't hear, other than the inevitable puppet accusations and the lying to the supporters comments, which I refute, many people complaining about the job she is doing.

Maybe we should support her and help her to get on with it?

Or if not that let the petty name calling stop and engage with her to move the club forward?

Surely at the very least that's what we all want?

[Onion]

Maybe her (relative outsider) at the time's view was that with the budget we had available and those players that remained on the books that we should be able to be giving it a right go (or whatever the actual phrase was)

She will have known full what Motherwell achieved on their budget.

You can tell from reading between the lines that as her knowledge of the club has increased, that she cant believe what a shambles we truly are and how far below standard some of our players are performing.

She absolutely couldn't have said anything else or would have been nailed to the wall and wont be the first or last person involved in football to get their expectations ahead of the reality.

Its becoming increasingly clear that there is no other realistic game in town other than the agenda she will be pushing to change the ownership structure at ER.

I for one never truly believed there would be as buying a Scottish Football Club makes no commercial or rational sense whatsoever.

I don't hear, other than the inevitable puppet accusations and the lying to the supporters comments, which I refute, many people complaining about the job she is doing.

Maybe we should support her and help her to get on with it?

Or if not that let the petty name calling stop and engage with her to move the club forward?

Surely at the very least that's what we all want?

Feel sorry for LD. Strikes me as a decent CEO who has landed on a pile of crap.

IMO she would not be getting nearly as tough a time of it had Petrie been kicked out on his arse. Petrie is still the decisive, festering sore at ER which will continue to flare up when things go bad.

[Septimus]

There seems little point in trying to heap the bad management of years onto the shoulders of LD. She has come from an outfit with a manager who actually appears to know something about football and has performed miracles of a small budget. I cannot remember when Hibs last had a manager of that type. Motherwell is not full of "names" that immediately spring to mind. It is a team which plays football. I, for one, believe that AS may be moving in that direction but Rome was not built in a day.

In the meantime it is imperative that we stop calling LD names and act like adults. The alternative, I fully believe is a continuing downward spiral.

As for Petrie and Farmer. They have their agenda but we are not going to understand what it is. It seems pointless to try.

[ronaldo7]

Mystery 3rd buyer.

http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/football/mystery-third-party-seeks-easter-road-buyout.25231714

Last night a supporters' group launched an initiative that it hopes will lead to fan ownership at the Edinburgh club, but there are still two suitors on the sidelines.

An unidentified businessman is thought to be in talks with Sir Tom Farmer, owner of the club, and Rod Petrie, the non-executive chairman, over a possible buyout while David Low, the financial advisor, confirmed to Herald Sport last night that he might resurrect his attempt to lead a £3.5m takeover.

The mystery potential buyer is thought to be amenable to brokering a deal that would give Farmer and Petrie money or shares for their agreement to sell the club. However, Low was last night clear on two points. He said: "First, there is a myth that Hibs are a club that has performed well financially. That does not survive scrutiny and I would not be prepared to reward under-achievement. All money should go into efforts to help the club move forward.

"Second, I would consider increasing the offer for the club but only if I was assured of the unambiguous support of the fans. They are crucial to any strategy for the club." "

Farmer owns 90% of the shares in HFC Holdings Ltd, Hibs' parent company, while Petrie holds 10%.

The bid by Low, on behalf of a consortium thought to include former Hibs chairman Malcolm McPherson, was turned down because it was "not in the best interests of the club."

The pressure on the club was increased last night by Forever Hibernian. Paul Kane, the former Hibs player and spokesman of Forever Hibernian, said fans were ready to launch a community-based takeover, describing Hibs as a club "on its knees".

Supporters Direct Scotland (SDS) is running a survey on their website aimed at gauging the opinion of supporters. Among the topics tackled are whether fans are seeking representation on the board, if they would be willing to contribute to a paid membership scheme and whether supporters would actively participate in a bid

to buy the club outright.

Leeann Dempster, chief executive of the club, has already expressed a willingness to work towards community ownership or fan representation on the board.

The result of the survey will be announced later this month. Kane said that if the survey showed support for a new model of ownership then he will oversee the creation of a united fans' group with "the ultimate aim of a supporters' trust running the club."

[Pretty Boy]

Giving hundreds of free tickets to schools?

Giving away 7000 free tickets for an upcoming home game?

Are the free tickets being given to schools being used? And going to the right places?

[PatHead]

what are they doing to encourage more fans young and old to come to the games? They certainly are not encoraging people with the signings (loan deals) nor has the football been absolutely great? I even consider the cost for the type of football played tends to scare people away just is not worth it?

So far this season Hibs have handed out tickets to 26 schools in Edinburgh, East and Midlothian including all Leith and most East Edinburgh schools. After the next home game following Cowdenbeath that area of the city should be cleared up.

It is intended to have every school in these areas to have had the opportunity to get tickets by the Alloa game in December. This will involve over 200 schools hence the reason West Lothian has not been included to date. It is hoped contact can be made there early in the new year. This will be ongoing not a one-off.

In addition there are various other initiatives being offered to schools to engage with Hibs from player visits to tours of the stadium to healthy eating programmes. Not to mention homework and afterschool clubs and the likes run by Sue at the Community Foundation and Franck Suzy's Leith Links

We have now engaged with a greater number of schools this season than we did in the whole of last season. In addition work is done with boys clubs. Lots and lots going on, feel free to help on a volunteer basis if you want.

Re older supporters they benefit from the adult and child offers to schools, Fit Fans in Training, Supporter Consultations and free tickets for season ticket holders. Not to mention printing tickets at home to make life easier and the monthly payment plan.

The key ingredient missing is a winning team on the park

[PatHead]

Are the free tickets being given to schools being used? And going to the right places?

See my post above, being used and welcomed by schools. What are the right places, genuine question?

[PatHead]

Mystery 3rd buyer.

http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/football/mystery-third-party-seeks-easter-road-buyout.25231714

Last night a supporters' group launched an initiative that it hopes will lead to fan ownership at the Edinburgh club, but there are still two suitors on the sidelines.

An unidentified businessman is thought to be in talks with Sir Tom Farmer, owner of the club, and Rod Petrie, the non-executive chairman, over a possible buyout while David Low, the financial advisor, confirmed to Herald Sport last night that he might resurrect his attempt to lead a £3.5m takeover.

The mystery potential buyer is thought to be amenable to brokering a deal that would give Farmer and Petrie money or shares for their agreement to sell the club. However, Low was last night clear on two points. He said: "First, there is a myth that Hibs are a club that has performed well financially. That does not survive scrutiny and I would not be prepared to reward under-achievement. All money should go into efforts to help the club move forward.

"Second, I would consider increasing the offer for the club but only if I was assured of the unambiguous support of the fans. They are crucial to any strategy for the club." "

Farmer owns 90% of the shares in HFC Holdings Ltd, Hibs' parent company, while Petrie holds 10%.

The bid by Low, on behalf of a consortium thought to include former Hibs chairman Malcolm McPherson, was turned down because it was "not in the best interests of the club."

The pressure on the club was increased last night by Forever Hibernian. Paul Kane, the former Hibs player and spokesman of Forever Hibernian, said fans were ready to launch a community-based takeover, describing Hibs as a club "on its knees".

Supporters Direct Scotland (SDS) is running a survey on their website aimed at gauging the opinion of supporters. Among the topics tackled are whether fans are seeking representation on the board, if they would be willing to contribute to a paid membership scheme and whether supporters would actively participate in a bid

to buy the club outright.

Leeann Dempster, chief executive of the club, has already expressed a willingness to work towards community ownership or fan representation on the board.

The result of the survey will be announced later this month. Kane said that if the survey showed support for a new model of ownership then he will oversee the creation of a united fans' group with "the ultimate aim of a supporters' trust running the club."

Funny no mention of the consultation

[bigwheel]

John, i dont blame her for ANY of whats happening now, not one bit of it. I actually think she comes across VERY well and i think she has all the tools to make a success of the club. But she's not perfect, and i think what she said about this seasons ambitions were misleading, and the consequent result of the results and the transfer window tells me the club is being run in exactly the same way as it was under Petrie.

Her words and what's happened this season still makes me conclude nothing gets passed before he has a look.


There is a real inconsistency in your posts about LD. You say you don't blame her, yet you call her a liar and a patsy. You say she come over well, and has all the tools, but you imply she is under the control of Petrie (see your last line above). You fail to understand the remit of a chairman versus a CEO, or at best you are suggesting she doesn't have the mandate of her CEO role - which again actually implies she is weak enough to take a role without appropriate authority. This negative agenda is doing nothing to help LD be successful in her role.

She has a good CV, could have gone on to many roles (within the game, or outside of the game). To suggest she has accepted a role without the right authority in it is again disrespectful.

You suggested she has lied (or mislead) in her ambitions to get out of the league this year. Well, actually, I suggest she still has those precise ambitions. She will now know it is much harder than she expected, and that the team have had a very poor start, and some major injury blows. She will still though, be looking for Stubbs and his team to get us into the play offs at least and give us a chance .I'm sure she will be working hard to secure some more signings to help those goals. Just because we had had a poor footballing start, doesn't mean that those ambitions were a lie.

The amount of stick she is getting in her new role, will be way beyond anything she has experienced, or expected. And on line, you (and many others) are part of that approach. Why not get behind her, and spend your energy suggesting ways forward, engage with her, rather than negative, disrespectful posts which do nothing to help her in her role.

[Deansy]

Because she's an expert in employment law and makes sure Hibs always have the upper hand in employee negotiations.

Terry Butcher being an example.

[Keith_M]

Ah, the good old days..before we moved from Tranent to the west, the best bus was the Eastern Scottish (green) bus that went along the A1, or the 85 because it missed out Prestonpans. Changed days since then obviously!


This one perhaps?


13410


:greengrin

[Lucius Apuleius]

Thanks to Mo for a resume without the emotion of others. This makes it come over as being much more balanced and believable. I have not a clue what the future holds and I have not a clue about varying methods of fan ownership, however I do have a lot of experience in spending a lot of money, many many times higher than our turnover and as I have said many times it is not the amount of money we have or have spent in the last few years it is what we have spent it on. I am now a lot more comfortable that we have a person on board who appears to have grasped that fact and is looking to remedy it.

[jacomo]

Terry Butcher being an example.

Yup, cracking bit of negotiation there.

[Smartie]

There seems little point in trying to heap the bad management of years onto the shoulders of LD. She has come from an outfit with a manager who actually appears to know something about football and has performed miracles of a small budget. I cannot remember when Hibs last had a manager of that type. Motherwell is not full of "names" that immediately spring to mind. It is a team which plays football. I, for one, believe that AS may be moving in that direction but Rome was not built in a day.

In the meantime it is imperative that we stop calling LD names and act like adults. The alternative, I fully believe is a continuing downward spiral.

As for Petrie and Farmer. They have their agenda but we are not going to understand what it is. It seems pointless to try.

Good, well balanced post and I agree entirely.

The last paragraph seems quite bleak but is exactly how I see it.

It's a long-term thing for AS and LD and we're going to need to be patient, which doesn't sit well with most people as we demand immediate rapid improvement from years of decline. And they're going to have to fight a long, lonely fight not necessarily with adequate backing from the fans or RP/STF/ the board.

What a mess.

[jacomo]

Maybe her (relative outsider) at the time's view was that with the budget we had available and those players that remained on the books that we should be able to be giving it a right go (or whatever the actual phrase was)

She will have known full what Motherwell achieved on their budget.

You can tell from reading between the lines that as her knowledge of the club has increased, that she cant believe what a shambles we truly are and how far below standard some of our players are performing.

She absolutely couldn't have said anything else or would have been nailed to the wall and wont be the first or last person involved in football to get their expectations ahead of the reality.

Its becoming increasingly clear that there is no other realistic game in town other than the agenda she will be pushing to change the ownership structure at ER.

I for one never truly believed there would be as buying a Scottish Football Club makes no commercial or rational sense whatsoever.

I don't hear, other than the inevitable puppet accusations and the lying to the supporters comments, which I refute, many people complaining about the job she is doing.

Maybe we should support her and help her to get on with it?

Or if not that let the petty name calling stop and engage with her to move the club forward?

Surely at the very least that's what we all want?

Good points. When LD was asked about ambitions for this season back in July, I'm sure she was feeling much more optimistic about things.

[blackpoolhibs]

There is a real inconsistency in your posts about LD. You say you don't blame her, yet you call her a liar and a patsy. You say she come over well, and has all the tools, but you imply she is under the control of Petrie (see your last line above). You fail to understand the remit of a chairman versus a CEO, or at best you are suggesting she doesn't have the mandate of her CEO role - which again actually implies she is weak enough to take a role without appropriate authority. This negative agenda is doing nothing to help LD be successful in her role.

She has a good CV, could have gone on to many roles (within the game, or outside of the game). To suggest she has accepted a role without the right authority in it is again disrespectful.

You suggested she has lied (or mislead) in her ambitions to get out of the league this year. Well, actually, I suggest she still has those precise ambitions. She will now know it is much harder than she expected, and that the team have had a very poor start, and some major injury blows. She will still though, be looking for Stubbs and his team to get us into the play offs at least and give us a chance .I'm sure she will be working hard to secure some more signings to help those goals. Just because we had had a poor footballing start, doesn't mean that those ambitions were a lie.

The amount of stick she is getting in her new role, will be way beyond anything she has experienced, or expected. And on line, you (and many others) are part of that approach. Why not get behind her, and spend your energy suggesting ways forward, engage with her, rather than negative, disrespectful posts which do nothing to help her in her role.

Its simple really, i can believe she's as good at her job as i think she is, i can also think she's mislead us, and i can also think she's working with her hands tied behind her back. All that results in me thinking she's been put in front of us to take the flak. Patsy.

[Sergio sledge]

Crisis management sounds about right.

These consultations could surely have waited for a few months while LD and their team focused everything on preparing for this season?

We've brought in 8 players during the window, which is a fair bit of business, but the squad is painfully light in certain areas and we've had a bad start. It's not about her putting the cones out herself, but doing everything possible to create the right environment for our new manager (sorry, Head Coach) to flourish. This feels to me like a crazy distraction at the wrong moment.

I agree, but perhaps she has a deadline, imposed on her by STF as part of her employment, to change the ownership structure of the club by a certain date and felt she needed to have this consultation asap to allow her to meet that deadline?

[NAE NOOKIE]

Just back from the meeting tonight after a couple of pints when it finished.

Started off briskly with more of a football slant, and George Craig there to take the flak. Lots of Petrie out stuff, but the majority of the voices were looking for answers from the board about what the plan is. How much will it take? Is it all of the Club or just part? etc.

When we got into the meat of the meeting, Leeann had been sitting for 40 minutes listening to the views when challenged by a fan to tell us what the plans were.

You're pushing at an open door was one of her responses.

Leeann told us she had a plan but was wanting to do the consultation with fans to see if they would buy in to, or have some ingenious plan never heard of before. She wasn't going to share her plan this evening.

Lots of good suggestions about how we should move forward on share/club ownership and representation.

My Take on this evening.

STF is holding ALL the cards here as owner of the club. He has sent the board out to do his bidding, and to test the water about fan ownership/representation.

If the plan which Leeann or anyone else has, does not measure up to how STF wants the club to be run, then it won't happen.

I do believe STF has a plan for the club, whether that be separating the assets(ground and east mains) from the club(footballing side), and the fans buying the club(FS).

Only time will tell, but my take on this evening is that there won't be a single owner of our club in the future.

I would only buy into that if there was cast iron watertight guarantees in place that Hibs would never ever be in danger of having Easter road sold from under them or be evicted from the stadium for non payment of rent.

[Ozyhibby]

I would only buy into that if there was cast iron watertight guarantees in place that Hibs would never ever be in danger of having Easter road sold from under them or be evicted from the stadium for non payment of rent.

That's the reason for doing it.

[PatHead]

I agree, but perhaps she has a deadline, imposed on her by STF as part of her employment, to change the ownership structure of the club by a certain date and felt she needed to have this consultation asap to allow her to meet that deadline?

I think that will be one of her many briefs but maybe not with a deadline. Just think LD doesn't hang around when something needs done.

[JimBHibees]

Maybe her (relative outsider) at the time's view was that with the budget we had available and those players that remained on the books that we should be able to be giving it a right go (or whatever the actual phrase was)

She will have known full what Motherwell achieved on their budget.

You can tell from reading between the lines that as her knowledge of the club has increased, that she cant believe what a shambles we truly are and how far below standard some of our players are performing.

She absolutely couldn't have said anything else or would have been nailed to the wall and wont be the first or last person involved in football to get their expectations ahead of the reality.

Its becoming increasingly clear that there is no other realistic game in town other than the agenda she will be pushing to change the ownership structure at ER.

I for one never truly believed there would be as buying a Scottish Football Club makes no commercial or rational sense whatsoever.

I don't hear, other than the inevitable puppet accusations and the lying to the supporters comments, which I refute, many people complaining about the job she is doing.

Maybe we should support her and help her to get on with it?

Or if not that let the petty name calling stop and engage with her to move the club forward?

Surely at the very least that's what we all want?

Absolutely that is what should be happening. She needs our support and backing as things take time. We have only played 4 league games. Give her and the new manager some decent team to get things changed.

[ronaldo7]

I would only buy into that if there was cast iron watertight guarantees in place that Hibs would never ever be in danger of having Easter road sold from under them or be evicted from the stadium for non payment of rent.

I think that was the Dunfermline model shown last night. They bought 94% of the footballing side, and 25.1% of the assets (stadium), therefor those holding the remaining shares of the stadium couldn't sell due to the 25.1% holding of the fans.