where do the problems lie?

[AgentDaleCooper]

i say problems, because i think the temptation is always to pin the blame onto one thing (usually, quite understandably, petrie), and i really think that it's a lot more complicated than that. i'm sure it's a vicious cycle, with negative elements feeding off each other.

although i said in another thread that the squad isn't good enough, i think i maybe should have said 'robust' enough. our squad is more talented than alloa's, and to suggest otherwise is just ridiculous.

the elements dragging us down, in no particular order other than which occur to me first (and with NO mention of blame or morality - let's try to be analytic :wink:):

petrie's presence - fans have no confidence in how club is being run
negativity in the terraces - saps confidence of players further (although we were away against alloa, our home record is especially crud)
players playing badly - makes for eye bleeding football, and a depressing day out. those fans who keep going will get more and more pissed off
old faces still around - carries on the 'infection' of low confidence
not enough new signings - not enough for the fans to get optimistic about, plus the above problem

the jury remains out on dempster, and MUST remain out on stubbs for at least half a season, unless we go on a bad run of truly epic proportions...

there are some things to note...we have gone for reasonably ambitious signings (adam rooney, leigh), but they've fallen through - who knows who we've been aiming for - the intent seems to be there, but maybe the purse strings are just too tight - or maybe our reputation precedes us to our detriment. we also did have a summer back in 2009 where we did make some good signings - stokes, miller, mcbride (can't remember who else off the top of my head).

perhaps one of the mistakes has been failing to put a man in charge of the team...dare i say it...but someone like levein (but NOT levein, obviously!), who can attract decent, established players to the club? (i don't care what anyone says - gomis and buaben is an extremely solid central mid partnership in this league).

IMO, as far as this season is concerned, we need to lift some pressure off - there's no way we're going to win this league, so to talk in such terms is only going to piss us off more in the future when that utterly fails to materialise. don't get me wrong - i think we SHOULD be challenging for the top spot - but i just can't see it happening, and i think aiming for that is only going to make things worse. if we can just avoid further catastrophe, and view this season as a rather needless adventure that we might as well enjoy, then next summer, the board MUST give us what we've been asking for for ages - total, top to bottom, whole-sale CHANGE.

i say none of this because i think it's the position we 'should' be taking, given our resources - i just think it might be the most prudent and thus profitable in the seasons to come.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

Inability to pull the right levers to effect change in performance on the pitch.
Characterised by:
ludicrous player turn over
recruitment despiration leading to bad choices
poor managerial selection including backing the wrong horses despite warning indicators (CC)
A seeming unwillingness to accept that it's more that just down to the football gods
a seeming acceptance of failure
Repeated basic failures in understanding what makes our support tick
Acceptance or repeated failure and poor discipline.
inability to select captains worthy of the title or understanding of their role
failure to "get" what the derby means.
plus:
Isolation of management from fans through repeated poor communication

[Smartie]

The over-reliance on too many players still at the club who do not have the mental strength or basic football ability to be relied upon to give consistently high performances.

Paper-thin squad that is over-reliant on certain individuals, the team looking lost if they're not present or on form.

A terrible environment for youngsters to establish themselves in the first team.

Youngsters who repeatedly fail to impress are persevered with through necessity and excuses are made for their underperformance.

A comfort zone exists for other players who prefer to pick up a wage at a nice club rather than move on.

Players tainted by previous poor performance and relegation are not afforded any scope to improve by the fans and it is difficult to see that strained relationship turning round.

And many, many more.

All of these won't be sorted this transfer window so the most important will have to be prioritised now and others left until later.

[steakbake]

At the very basic level: lack of real involvement from the guy who owns the whole shooting match - a failure of leadership.

If a business owner isn't interested in the line he's working in, his company will eventually fail.

Run at the expense of the ambitions and limited effectiveness of the guy managing the day to day business. It's window dressing as you can see. It's not even too early to tell.

New owners are needed and with that, Petrie needs to go.

Our neighbours are in a better position because they've learned that suits can't run football clubs. From owner to players, they're invested in the success and rehabilitation of the club after the suits have already done their damage.

LD, AS and all these faces we brought in over the summer will be limited by the overall lack of interest and emotional investment in the on-field fortunes.

Petrie's wry smile at the playoff defeat: the man should've been devastated like the rest of us.

Farmer: who knows.

Absentee owner, heavy handed and incompetent chairman who's a money man and aspiring football bureaucrat - the two things that ruin the game.

[greenginger]

At the very basic level: lack of real involvement from the guy who owns the whole shooting match - a failure of leadership.

If a business owner isn't interested in the line he's working in, his company will eventually fail.


That seems to be confirmed by the fact a wee wumin from Drylaw with no experience in running a football club seems to be getting results .

[steakbake]

That seems to be confirmed by the fact a wee wumin from Drylaw with no experience in running a football club seems to be getting results .

Her interest is, at least, recent and she seems to know who to get in to do what needs done. I'd take interest over experience anytime.

I hope the underlying reason LD is here is to bring about a transfer in ownership.

[Smartie]

Her interest is, at least, recent and she seems to know who to get in to do what needs done. I'd take interest over experience anytime.

I hope the underlying reason LD is here is to bring about a transfer in ownership.

She'll have a wee bit of passion but most importantly a self-awareness that she's new to this and needs to surround herself with folk who know what they're doing.

It absolutely beggars belief that we have an owner with no interest in football who had a man who hadn't been to game of football until he was 40 in charge of all aspects of our football club.

These have (to an extent) been addressed by the appointment of LD but the roots of all our current problems lie in this catastrophic tenure.

[snooky]

I can anagramatically reveal the source of the problem is our pet ire. :wink:

[AgentDaleCooper]

I can anagramatically reveal the source of the problem is our pet ire. :wink:

i agree that he's the source, but it seems that the problem has bred, and our whole club is a tangled doubt-ridden mess.

[steakbake]

She'll have a wee bit of passion but most importantly a self-awareness that she's new to this and needs to surround herself with folk who know what they're doing.

It absolutely beggars belief that we have an owner with no interest in football who had a man who hadn't been to game of football until he was 40 in charge of all aspects of our football club.

These have (to an extent) been addressed by the appointment of LD but the roots of all our current problems lie in this catastrophic tenure.

LD isn't a silver bullet. Only wholesale change in the ownership will do that. Of course, very grateful to Farmer for stepping in when he did but that kind of ownership should be transitional at best.

My concern is that there isnt such a plan and LD is simply here to take the heat off Petrie.

I'm done with the club for now. We've been humiliated, performed well below what is satisfactory then been asked for patience, to give backing etc - it's too many times with no change.

[Brizo]

At the very basic level: lack of real involvement from the guy who owns the whole shooting match - a failure of leadership.

If a business owner isn't interested in the line he's working in, his company will eventually fail.

Run at the expense of the ambitions and limited effectiveness of the guy managing the day to day business. It's window dressing as you can see. It's not even too early to tell.

New owners are needed and with that, Petrie needs to go.

Our neighbours are in a better position because they've learned that suits can't run football clubs. From owner to players, they're invested in the success and rehabilitation of the club after the suits have already done their damage.

LD, AS and all these faces we brought in over the summer will be limited by the overall lack of interest and emotional investment in the on-field fortunes.

Petrie's wry smile at the playoff defeat: the man should've been devastated like the rest of us.

Farmer: who knows.

Absentee owner, heavy handed and incompetent chairman who's a money man and aspiring football bureaucrat - the two things that ruin the game.

:top marks

Great post. Our problems start at the very top from an owner who saved the club for the "community " but who is not prepared to ever engage with his "community".

[Waxy]

The problem lies with the players. What is our record since the start of the year? Won 1 drawn 2 lost 25? (just a guess).Pathetic. If i was Alan Stubbs i'd get rid of a few culprits today before they get him sacked.

[Spike Mandela]

It's really very simple. A succession of players and teams that didn't play very well and didn't get results. As these poor results continued the standard of player has dropped and we have become the self fulfilling prophecy that we are today.

Find a good team that gets good results and all other problems mentioned will disappear.

[Golden Bear]

Number 1 - under performing and overpaid players.

Number 2 - We've been a dismal failure in the transfer market. Funds have been made available (contrary to some!) but the resources were well & truly squandered.

Number 3 - The fear factor - Players' adopt the profile of petrified rabbits caught in the headlights. We have a "let's not lose" mentality rather than a let's go out and pulverise the opposition attitude. No risk, no flair, no entertainment is the end result.

Number 4 - A dismal failure by the Board/Management to establish an effective Scouting Network

Number 5 - A dismal failure by Management to adopt a joined up approach to coaching. (last season was a prime example when our young teams were encouraged to play a passing game while the first team squad were instructed to play hoof ball)


That will do for now, even although I could go on and on.

[GreenCastle]

RP and STF...

Until they leave we will continue to be in decline

[NAE NOOKIE]

The root of our problems lie in an owner and his igor who understand business, but not the football business ... even after all this time. They still run the club failing to recognise the nature of the business they are in.

In Scottish football the main source of income is bums on seats and filling those seats is the way to a successful club. The best way to do that is a good team on the park which will attract supporters.

Our club think the way to raise money is the ongoing sale of a constant stream of young talent ... based on the foolish notion that if you have raised millions that way once you will be able to keep doing it.

They think that folk will ignore the car crash on the pitch if they appeal ( season after season ) to the fans loyalty and send out childishly embarrassing camouflage decorated literature imploring us to join Terry Butcher's Green & White army by buying season tickets. The fact that for years now the ST package has contained an apology for the previous season would ring alarm bells at any club ... but not Hibs apparently.

They fail to apply the utterly standard business practice of speculate to accumulate they would no doubt at one time or another have applied to their own businesses outside of football. The tiny budget overspend it would have taken to sign Adam Rooney in January might have saved us a million pounds. The £300,000 which might have secured Leigh Griffiths could have earned the club a million pounds.

They twice got a financial get out of jail free card by reaching the Scottish cup final, but failed to address the underlying fact that the season couldn't always be saved in this way and our league form had to be sorted urgently.

They failed to bin a manager who plainly didn't want to be at the club, even when doing so would have earned us £250,000.

The biggest thing of all is this:

Even if STF and RP had been mental Hibbies since birth and attended every game together wearing Hibs tops and left the ground in tears after every defeat ......... the truth is their 20 odd year attempt to make Hibs a successful football club has been a failure.

That is where our problems lie.

[HIBERNIAN-0762]

RP and STF...

Until they leave we will continue to be in decline

:agree:

[The Harp Awakes]

So many contributing factors to explain Hibs decline but in the main; no long term plans, short-term thinking, bad managerial appointments, too many loan signings (2 again today), bad choice of captains, trying to get players on the cheap constantly, East Mains failing to deliver on young talent, poor connections between Club and supporters, etc, etc.

[ancient hibee]

In any business if you replace assets with assets that do not perform as well the business goes into decline.Not rocket science.