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Lago
31-08-2014, 09:16 AM
Reported in todays Mail on Sunday that Stubbs has agreed loan deal till January. Does this mean the rumours about Lee Griffiths are just that rumours?

Heisenberg
31-08-2014, 09:18 AM
Reported in todays Mail on Sunday that Stubbs has agreed loan deal till January. Does this mean the rumours about Lee Griffiths are just that rumours?

We need two strikers if Farid's injury is as bad as we think.

Pretty Boy
31-08-2014, 09:19 AM
A 19 year old who has played 1 senior game is not what we need.

Danderhall Hibs
31-08-2014, 09:20 AM
Never heard of him.

cabbageandribs1875
31-08-2014, 09:21 AM
we really are the loan kings aren't we :(

Aldo
31-08-2014, 09:21 AM
A 19 year old who has played 1 senior game is not what we need.

Indeed. We have Cummings, Handling and Lewis Allan.

I hope I'm wrong but I think we maybe in for a very frustrating day tomorrow.

scott_b_
31-08-2014, 09:22 AM
Obviously nothing against the lad, but when the **** do we (as in the club/board/management) learn.

Weir7
31-08-2014, 09:25 AM
A 19 year old who has played 1 senior game is not what we need.

We need experienced men. But wages on offt at ER is why we are getting young inexperienced players.

Iain G
31-08-2014, 09:32 AM
We need experienced men. But wages on offt at ER is why we are getting young inexperienced players.

No we need players with pride, and bottle and a desire to win, doesn't matter how old they are

Smartie
31-08-2014, 09:34 AM
We need good players, not necessarily experienced ones although that would obviously help.

Allan and Kennedy haven't played much over the past few years but are an improvement on what we had.

If you're good enough, you're old enough. The question here should only be if he is good enough.

NORTHERNHIBBY
31-08-2014, 09:34 AM
We need experienced men. But wages on offt at ER is why we are getting young inexperienced players.

There are ways round that though? Paying top ups to teams that still pay the bulk of the majority of the wages? In return their players get first team football and top class facilities?

JimBHibees
31-08-2014, 09:35 AM
No we need players with pride, and bottle and a desire to win, doesn't matter how old they are

Agree couldn't care less what age or where from. A winning attitude and ability allied to some physicality required.

Bostonhibby
31-08-2014, 09:35 AM
If true, its just yet another window scrambling about at the last minute to try and solve our immediate messy needs - product of not getting our business done early yet again, we will never learn.

A lot of new well intentioned faces appointed behind the scenes but they are restricted by an institutionalised way of transfer dealing and managing the player spend which still looks the same as when RP was actively involved.

This means that we tend to be coming of the back of the latest poor season and crashing into the next one still try to acquire players, still trying to get the ones we have to fit together and still trying to buy off the previous seasons mess. We then wheel out whoever we have been able to borrow alongside a mix of very new players and players from the prior season most of us know haven't been good enough.

Put this farcical combination against some of the teams who have a settled squad that they have added a few players to early on, and those who have cleared out their non performers early and you have the unprepared against the prepared - we are at best experimenting still and at the same time relying on players the fans don't rate and Stubbs probably wants to shift - they know it and the opposition usually have us worked out.

The 3 league defeats so far were at the hands of teams who were prepared early and had their transfer business done early and in my view they were also able to dictate the game against us at key times because we are leaderless on the pitch and nowhere near hard enough when the pressure is on.

Iain G
31-08-2014, 09:51 AM
If true, its just yet another window scrambling about at the last minute to try and solve our immediate messy needs - product of not getting our business done early yet again, we will never learn.

A lot of new well intentioned faces appointed behind the scenes but they are restricted by an institutionalised way of transfer dealing and managing the player spend which still looks the same as when RP was actively involved.

This means that we tend to be coming of the back of the latest poor season and crashing into the next one still try to acquire players, still trying to get the ones we have to fit together and still trying to buy off the previous seasons mess. We then wheel out whoever we have been able to borrow alongside a mix of very new players and players from the prior season most of us know haven't been good enough.

Put this farcical combination against some of the teams who have a settled squad that they have added a few players to early on, and those who have cleared out their non performers early and you have the unprepared against the prepared - we are at best experimenting still and at the same time relying on players the fans don't rate and Stubbs probably wants to shift - they know it and the opposition usually have us worked out.

The 3 league defeats so far were at the hands of teams who were prepared early and had their transfer business done early and in my view they were also able to dictate the game against us at key times because we are leaderless on the pitch and nowhere near hard enough when the pressure is on.

Alternatively, new manager is finding out about his squad and is taking the whole window to get in what he now knows he needs. I have no doubt we have been working on deals for a while, Fontaine took two weeks from first interest to signing.

If players have a few offers then they will take their time to consider them, it isn't always Hibs fault ya know :wink:

Pretty Boy
31-08-2014, 09:53 AM
Alternatively, new manager is finding out about his squad and is taking the whole window to get in what he now knows he needs. I have no doubt we have been working on deals for a while, Fontaine took two weeks from first interest to signing.

If players have a few offers then they will take their time to consider them, it isn't always Hibs fault ya know :wink:

And whilst taking all that time (should that not be what pre season us for?) we have fallen 9 and 6 points behind our buggest rivals respectively.

Good plan that.

Wee Scottie Dug
31-08-2014, 09:59 AM
Never heard of him.

Scott Sinclair's wee brother rated very highly at Southampton ..... And they have produced a bucket load of good youngsters - you never know he might be just what we need :cb

I'll reserve judgement (if it's true of course) until I've seen his efforts in a Hibs shirt, if he is as good as Kennedy he will do for me!!

Forza Fred
31-08-2014, 10:00 AM
If true, its just yet another window scrambling about at the last minute to try and solve our immediate messy needs - product of not getting our business done early yet again, we will never learn.

A lot of new well intentioned faces appointed behind the scenes but they are restricted by an institutionalised way of transfer dealing and managing the player spend which still looks the same as when RP was actively involved.

This means that we tend to be coming of the back of the latest poor season and crashing into the next one still try to acquire players, still trying to get the ones we have to fit together and still trying to buy off the previous seasons mess. We then wheel out whoever we have been able to borrow alongside a mix of very new players and players from the prior season most of us know haven't been good enough.

Put this farcical combination against some of the teams who have a settled squad that they have added a few players to early on, and those who have cleared out their non performers early and you have the unprepared against the prepared - we are at best experimenting still and at the same time relying on players the fans don't rate and Stubbs probably wants to shift - they know it and the opposition usually have us worked out.

The 3 league defeats so far were at the hands of teams who were prepared early and had their transfer business done early and in my view they were also able to dictate the game against us at key times because we are leaderless on the pitch and nowhere near hard enough when the pressure is on.


We'll said that man!

I am amazed at our continuing amateurism AFTER the season has started, season after season.

Bostonhibby
31-08-2014, 10:00 AM
Alternatively, new manager is finding out about his squad and is taking the whole window to get in what he now knows he needs. I have no doubt we have been working on deals for a while, Fontaine took two weeks from first interest to signing.

If players have a few offers then they will take their time to consider them, it isn't always Hibs fault ya know :wink:

Yep, no problem with any of that, it might even work if we learned the lesson and were able to do all the good things you allude to earlier.

We don't appear to be consistent on the loan strategy if this thread is right though.a run of loans now smacks of panic and poor preparation if loans weren't our plan A.

Iain G
31-08-2014, 10:01 AM
And whilst taking all that time (should that not be what pre season us for?) we have fallend 9 and 6 points behind our buggest rivals respectively.

Good plan that.

Stubbs hasn't really had a full pre-season though has he.

Smartie
31-08-2014, 10:04 AM
If true, its just yet another window scrambling about at the last minute to try and solve our immediate messy needs - product of not getting our business done early yet again, we will never learn.

A lot of new well intentioned faces appointed behind the scenes but they are restricted by an institutionalised way of transfer dealing and managing the player spend which still looks the same as when RP was actively involved.

This means that we tend to be coming of the back of the latest poor season and crashing into the next one still try to acquire players, still trying to get the ones we have to fit together and still trying to buy off the previous seasons mess. We then wheel out whoever we have been able to borrow alongside a mix of very new players and players from the prior season most of us know haven't been good enough.

Put this farcical combination against some of the teams who have a settled squad that they have added a few players to early on, and those who have cleared out their non performers early and you have the unprepared against the prepared - we are at best experimenting still and at the same time relying on players the fans don't rate and Stubbs probably wants to shift - they know it and the opposition usually have us worked out.

The 3 league defeats so far were at the hands of teams who were prepared early and had their transfer business done early and in my view they were also able to dictate the game against us at key times because we are leaderless on the pitch and nowhere near hard enough when the pressure is on.

I would normally agree with you, our transfer business over the past 5 years has been conducted appallingly.

The culmination of that though is this summer. Relegation, a clearout, a managerial change,a new CEO and Petrie taking a step back (allegedly).

This window has been different to any other and every step has had yo be rigorously carried out for the club's long-term good. Unfortunately this has left us woefully underprepared for the start of this season.

I really don't think this is the fault of this regime and is the culmination of successive botched transfer windows previously, therefore this time we need to cut them a bit of slack.

Pretty Boy
31-08-2014, 10:04 AM
Stubbs hasn't really had a full pre-season though has he.

Not blaming Stubbs exclusively.

He's being hung out to dry by the financial restrictions at the club.

Iain G
31-08-2014, 10:07 AM
Not blaming Stubbs exclusively.

He's being hung out to dry by the financial restrictions at the club.

Which he would have thoroughly discussed and agreed at his interview I assume?

J-C
31-08-2014, 10:11 AM
The club pre Dempster is to blame for this mess we're in, allowing Butcher to scrap so many before he himself was released, then the time it took for LD to come in and appoint Stubbs, we've fallen behind big time again and are now suffering because of it.

One good thing about this deal if it goea through is he's coming from probably the best youth set up in the country, a team that has produced a good few of the England team at the moment ( Walcott, Ox, Lallana, Shaw, Rodriguez ) and Bale for Wales, anyone coming from there is going to be better than anyone we have at the same age, so a 19yr old from Southampton is better than Handling/Cummings and Allan.

gegs70
31-08-2014, 10:18 AM
Not blaming Stubbs exclusively.

He's being hung out to dry by the financial restrictions at the club.

We will end up with a large amount of loanees again and that just means next season will be about rebuilding the squad again....

Pretty Boy
31-08-2014, 10:25 AM
We will end up with a large amount of loanees again and that just means next season will be about rebuilding the squad again....

Yep.

Our 8th transitional season in a row. God know where we are transitioning to, the 2nd division by the looks of it.

Bleeds green
31-08-2014, 10:32 AM
we really are the loan kings aren't we :(

This could be just to compensate until farid is back fit don't know the guy but maybe he's decent in the air like farid


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Danderhall Hibs
31-08-2014, 10:36 AM
Which he would have thoroughly discussed and agreed at his interview I assume?

You know what assuming does don't you?

Iain G
31-08-2014, 10:39 AM
You know what assuming does don't you?

I guess it amuses? :wink:

Eyrie
31-08-2014, 10:50 AM
If true, its just yet another window scrambling about at the last minute to try and solve our immediate messy needs - product of not getting our business done early yet again, we will never learn.

The need for another starting striker has been worked on for the last couple of weeks with the discussions over Griffiths. It's entirely possible that Sinclair has been the alternative if can't agree a deal with Septic.

What has changed overnight and created an immediate messy need is the injury to El Alagui, so we have to look to bring in both Griffiths and his alternative.

As regards not getting business started early enough, that goes back to the decision to leave Butcher in post for Dempster to fire, rather than booting him immediately and letting the applications arrive for Dempster to look through on Day One.

Bostonhibby
31-08-2014, 10:55 AM
The need for another starting striker has been worked on for the last couple of weeks with the discussions over Griffiths. It's entirely possible that Sinclair has been the alternative if can't agree a deal with Septic.

What has changed overnight and created an immediate messy need is the injury to El Alagui, so we have to look to bring in both Griffiths and his alternative.

As regards not getting business started early enough, that goes back to the decision to leave Butcher in post for Dempster to fire, rather than booting him immediately and letting the applications arrive for Dempster to look through on Day One.

I agree re Butcher this time but TBH my point is that was just recent history of the consequences of mismanagement repeating itself.

Have reason to be confident about Leigh coming but makes no difference to my view about how we ser ourselves up pre season and pre window. It is likely to be another loan, quality one but nevertheless.

Eyrie
31-08-2014, 10:57 AM
I agree re Butcher this time but TBH my point is that was just recent history of the consequences of mismanagement repeating itself.

Have reason to be confident about Leigh coming but makes no difference to my view about how we ser ourselves up pre season and pre window. It is likely to be another loan, quality one but nevertheless.

Hopefully this time next year we won't be having the same discussion because Stubbs and Craig have thoroughly scouted the players we want in advance and Dempster can start negotiations as soon as we get this car crash of a season out of the way.

Still think we'll make the playoffs though, and hope that El Alagui will be back before then. All is not lost.

Bostonhibby
31-08-2014, 11:02 AM
Hopefully this time next year we won't be having the same discussion because Stubbs and Craig have thoroughly scouted the players we want in advance and Dempster can start negotiations as soon as we get this car crash of a season out of the way.

Still think we'll make the playoffs though, and hope that El Alagui will be back before then. All is not lost.

Agree, the mould has to be broken some time, I can see the long term plan we are pedalling but as many have pointed out elsewhere there is a lot of the same old same old on the pitch and around our approach to transfers.

Manxhibs
31-08-2014, 12:05 PM
FWIW I have heard very good things about Sinclair and Southampton have a bit of a track record of producing quality youngsters.

SteveHFC
31-08-2014, 12:18 PM
Another 6month loan :faf:

Paloschi
31-08-2014, 12:31 PM
Another 6month loan :faf:


You couldn't make it up!

Our transfer policy continues to be a total joke.

Chairman: We've no cash

Manager: But what about season ticket money and gate receipts?

Chairman: Aye but i'm no giving you all of that, tell you what though you can sign free agents and loan players...

Manager: Eh ok? Scout who is on your list?

Scout: Ehm no idea lets go shopping for cheap bargain loans in England for players that aren't good enough for their first team?

Manager: oh ok then!

J-C
31-08-2014, 12:32 PM
Another 6month loan :faf:

It'll be to cover El Alagui who prpbably won't be back till Jan.

Heisenberg
31-08-2014, 12:32 PM
Nothing has changed in terms of how we are run on the transfer front. Same ***** different summer. I know we need two strikers now but we are still scrambling about on the last day trying to sign anyone we can on loan. Summer of change though.

Aldo
31-08-2014, 12:35 PM
Until we get new owners with a bit of ambition and vision nothing will change IMHO.

The Leith Dutch
31-08-2014, 12:45 PM
Nothing has changed in terms of how we are run on the transfer front. Same ***** different summer. I know we need two strikers now but we are still scrambling about on the last day trying to sign anyone we can on loan. Summer of change though.

We're also in a similar position at Right Back - were Gray to get injured we only have Forster as back up.
End result would be weakened at Right Back and Centre Back.

So as long as we pull in two strikers, a right back and a defensive midfielder tomorrow we're grand.

mentalhibee
31-08-2014, 01:05 PM
we really are the loan kings aren't we :(

Ken, quality over quantity and less loans......what a load of nonsense!

Bostonhibby
31-08-2014, 01:14 PM
Nothing has changed in terms of how we are run on the transfer front. Same ***** different summer. I know we need two strikers now but we are still scrambling about on the last day trying to sign anyone we can on loan. Summer of change though.

:confused: WTF happened to wind of change? - I can't keep up - exciting times off the pitch. Really looking forward to the Autumn of apathy...............

Lago
31-08-2014, 01:54 PM
I would normally agree with you, our transfer business over the past 5 years has been conducted appallingly.

The culmination of that though is this summer. Relegation, a clearout, a managerial change,a new CEO and Petrie taking a step back (allegedly).

This window has been different to any other and every step has had yo be rigorously carried out for the club's long-term good. Unfortunately this has left us woefully underprepared for the start of this season.

I really don't think this is the fault of this regime and is the culmination of successive botched transfer windows previously, therefore this time we need to cut them a bit of slack.
The excuse of a clear out no longer washes with me. Off the top of my head there were at least 6 players involved yesterday who featured last season, the clear out was mainly U20s.

macd123
31-08-2014, 01:55 PM
We just need to look at southampton, man city and wolves. They went through a nightmare and came back and we will too (just don't mention leeds and sheffield wed).

Sir David Gray
31-08-2014, 02:05 PM
Yep.

Our 8th transitional season in a row. God know where we are transitioning to, the 2nd division by the looks of it.

Most teams have a transitional period lasting a couple of months.

Ours has lasted about six years.

J-C
31-08-2014, 02:13 PM
Ken, quality over quantity and less loans......what a load of nonsense!

how many loans have we signed?? 2

quality, Allan, Farid, Gray

Jonnyboy
31-08-2014, 07:41 PM
Amazing that young loanee Matthew Kennedy has shown what a talented kid can bring and yet some are more than willing to say Jake Sinclair is not the answer. Anybody here actually ever seen him play? Laddie could turn out to be top notch, given his pedigree, but the experts have dismissed that possibility already

The Green Goblin
31-08-2014, 07:48 PM
:confused: WTF happened to wind of change? - I can't keep up - exciting times off the pitch. Really looking forward to the Autumn of apathy...............

And the Fart of Failure, which is what the Winds of Change have turned out to be so far, at least in terms of the team.

Still, let's see what happens tomorrow.

bingo70
31-08-2014, 07:52 PM
Amazing that young loanee Matthew Kennedy has shown what a talented kid can bring and yet some are more than willing to say Jake Sinclair is not the answer. Anybody here actually ever seen him play? Laddie could turn out to be top notch, given his pedigree, but the experts have dismissed that possibility already

Kennedy has got First team experience though so we had a pretty good idea of what we were getting.

I've no problem giving this guy a go, he might be amazing but I'd hope we're also bringing in a more established forward as well. Too big a risk to rely on someone with such little experience.

brog
31-08-2014, 07:53 PM
Amazing that young loanee Matthew Kennedy has shown what a talented kid can bring and yet some are more than willing to say Jake Sinclair is not the answer. Anybody here actually ever seen him play? Laddie could turn out to be top notch, given his pedigree, but the experts have dismissed that possibility already

Spot on John. Calum Chambers is 19, made about 20 senior appearances for Saints, sold to Arsenal for up to 16m. Straight into 1st team & now named in England squad. Going by comments on here some posters wouldn't want him, too young, inexperienced, not what we need! We need character, athleticism & ability. If a player has those & other qualities his age is irrelevant.

Jonnyboy
31-08-2014, 07:55 PM
Kennedy has got First team experience though so we had a pretty good idea of what we were getting.

I've no problem giving this guy a go, he might be amazing but I'd hope we're also bringing in a more established forward as well. Too big a risk to rely on someone with such little experience.

Not with Everton though, bingo. Played a handful of games a couple of years ago for Killie

Sinclair has made one first team appearance for Southampton.

I wholly agree though that we need an experienced striker too

pennyhibee
31-08-2014, 07:58 PM
Heard we are looking at Blair Henderson a striker from Penicuik Athletic . If that's the case might make the play offs v. Dunfermline Athletic.

bingo70
31-08-2014, 08:00 PM
Not with Everton though, bingo. Played a handful of games a couple of years ago for Killie

Sinclair has made one first team appearance for Southampton.

I wholly agree though that we need an experienced striker too

Kennedy had been out on loan as well I think.

I'm no really sure what my point is as I agree with you. I think I've just got sympathy for any hibs fans that have got a downer with the club the now as I'm the same. If we were to sign messi tomorrow I'd probably moan it wasnae ronaldo.

Dirkster23
31-08-2014, 08:03 PM
Not with Everton though, bingo. Played a handful of games a couple of years ago for Killie

Sinclair has made one first team appearance for Southampton.

I wholly agree though that we need an experienced striker too

Kennedy had played 29 first team games for Killie, Tranmere and MK Dons before he came here.

Sinclair came on in the 90th minute of a Capital Cup game against Barnsley for Southampton.

It'll be criminal if we don't bring an experienced striker in tomorrow.

Jonnyboy
31-08-2014, 08:09 PM
Kennedy had been out on loan as well I think.

I'm no really sure what my point is as I agree with you. I think I've just got sympathy for any hibs fans that have got a downer with the club the now as I'm the same. If we were to sign messi tomorrow I'd probably moan it wasnae ronaldo.


Kennedy had played 29 first team games for Killie, Tranmere and MK Dons before he came here.

Sinclair came on in the 90th minute of a Capital Cup game against Barnsley for Southampton.

It'll be criminal if we don't bring an experienced striker in tomorrow.

Poor research on my part. Apologies :agree:

Dirkster23
31-08-2014, 08:23 PM
Poor research on my part. Apologies :agree:

I only knew as i'd looked them both up this afternoon to see how their experience compared. Like Bingo, I'm just hoping we've got Sparky or another experienced striker lined up.

JimBHibees
31-08-2014, 08:34 PM
FWIW I have heard very good things about Sinclair and Southampton have a bit of a track record of producing quality youngsters.

They certainly do. His brother Scott is also a very talented player hopefully he is of a similar level.

Iain G
31-08-2014, 08:36 PM
Kennedy had played 29 first team games for Killie, Tranmere and MK Dons before he came here.

Sinclair came on in the 90th minute of a Capital Cup game against Barnsley for Southampton.

It'll be criminal if we don't bring an experienced striker in tomorrow.

Heffernan is an exprienced striker :wink:

Dirkster23
31-08-2014, 08:42 PM
Heffernan is an exprienced striker :wink:

True- I'm just hoping AS can find a guy a bit better than Heff.

bingo70
31-08-2014, 08:46 PM
http://www.ftbpro.com/posts/ross.hunt/521835/5-best-southampton-starlets-coming-through-the-academy-at-st-mary-s

Iain G
31-08-2014, 09:02 PM
True- I'm just hoping AS can find a guy a bit better than Heff.

Is Colin Nish available? Still scoring goals at this level, get him in for a season.

Jonnyboy
31-08-2014, 09:02 PM
http://www.ftbpro.com/posts/ross.hunt/521835/5-best-southampton-starlets-coming-through-the-academy-at-st-mary-s

Sounds quite promising bingo :agree:

malagahibby
31-08-2014, 09:15 PM
What a bunch .
An England internationalist at youth level and already written the guy off .a Southampton buddy tells me he's one super prospect but I suppose that's simply unacceptable for the hibs fans.
After a he might just be a good player and you'll have nothing to moan about .

malagahibby
31-08-2014, 09:16 PM
You couldn't make it up!

Our transfer policy continues to be a total joke.

Chairman: We've no cash

Manager: But what about season ticket money and gate receipts?

Chairman: Aye but i'm no giving you all of that, tell you what though you can sign free agents and loan players...

Manager: Eh ok? Scout who is on your list?

Scout: Ehm no idea lets go shopping for cheap bargain loans in England for players that aren't good enough for their first team?

Manager: oh ok then!
But we have no cash -were in the championship .

Pretty Boy
31-08-2014, 09:22 PM
But we have no cash -were in the championship .

The Championship excuse doesn't wash with me.

I'm utterly sick of using them as an example but a certain other club have attracted proven quality.

Unless some are now accepting they are actually a far bigger club than us. I sure as **** am not.

SMAXXA
31-08-2014, 09:27 PM
The Championship excuse doesn't wash with me.

I'm utterly sick of using them as an example but a certain other club have attracted proven quality.

Unless some are now accepting they are actually a far bigger club than us. I sure as **** am not.

Just out of interest mate who has attracted proven quality in the championship?

Pretty Boy
31-08-2014, 09:29 PM
Just out of interest mate who has attracted proven quality in the championship?

You don't think Buaben, Gomis, Keatings and Alexander are proven quality at Championship level?

Rangers obviously have quality as well but they are still operating in a different financial world to anything resembling reality and there utterly terrible manager negates a fair bit of the quality.

SMAXXA
31-08-2014, 09:33 PM
You don't think Buaben, Gomis, Keatings and Alexander are proven quality at Championship level?

Rangers obviously have quality as well but they are still operating in a different financial world to anything resembling reality and there utterly terrible manager negates a fair bit of the quality.

Sorry I didn't think you meant at championship level just quality in general. I wouldn't say any of them are actually quality, I would say they are decent and aside from probably keatings no one knew how well they would do in this division. My idea of quality is of a higher standard than any of those but agree it will be difficult with our current situation.

Up The Bracket
31-08-2014, 09:41 PM
You don't think Buaben, Gomis, Keatings and Alexander are proven quality at Championship level?

Rangers obviously have quality as well but they are still operating in a different financial world to anything resembling reality and there utterly terrible manager negates a fair bit of the quality.

I don't think they're much better than Allan, El Alagui, Gray and Fontaine tbh.

Allan was signed for a six figure fee after just a handful of games and has played a fair amount of English Championship football, El Alagui had a better championship record than Keatings, Gray looks like a very good player and Fontaine has over 200 English Championship appearances.