FAO Leanne dempster

[davym7062]

U said u were in charge, the day to day running of the club is down to you. GET IT SORTED. This club is a laughing stock.

[kj79]

If I was her I'd be signing off sick this week as she is going to take some awful flack for a position she has inherited!

[Forza Fred]

If I was her I'd be signing off sick this week as she is going to take some awful flack for a position she has inherited!

If I was her, I think when I got home I would pour myself a glass of cold white wine, put my feet up and ask myself....'what have I got myself into,?'

I know she likes a challenge, but I doubt for a moment she thought it would be this hard.

[hibbydog]

Any chief executive is answerable to the owner. I never really thought that replacing Petrie with Dempster was going to make much of a difference unless Tom Farmer either radically changes his approach or sells the club.

Very difficult job, which I have no doubt she's getting paid handsomely for. I just don't see an awful lot changing until we change owners for someone who wants to invest for sporting success.

[One Day]

U said u were in charge, the day to day running of the club is down to you. GET IT SORTED. This club is a laughing stock.

She does as shes told

[Pretty Boy]

She said our ambition was to win the league this year.

Our actions, or lack thereof, in the transfer market suggest to me that she lied. She should be answerable for that.

[rcarter1]

She said our ambition was to win the league this year.

Our actions, or lack thereof, in the transfer market suggest to me that she lied. She should be answerable for that.

All the noises from the club implied that, while it would be nice to win the league, basically we were going for play offs. In this way we could say we going for promotion at the first time of asking. In short we bottled it, took the cheap option again. If Leanne had vision she would have realised that we needed to make a really big summer signing spree, which would have kick started supporters into buying season tickets. The way the club is run almost guarantees that fans are lost bit by bit every year.

[HH81]

PB no doubt she said what she wanted us to hear. Also a bit of it will have been to shift more tickets.

Hibs have not shown any signs of wanting to win the league this summer. My what the hell is going on was correct from the day i posted it.

[Weir7]

She said our ambition was to win the league this year.

Our actions, or lack thereof, in the transfer market suggest to me that she lied. She should be answerable for that.

Spot on.

[Golden Bear]

It's not looking good admittedly but we're only 4 games into the season so I'm not going to jump off the Forth Bridge just yet. A change of ownership doesn't necessarily mean that the Players will be capable of producing improved performances - that's the remit of the coaches and of course the players themselves.

And so for some of the blame already being attributed to Leanne Dempster and our new Manager then words fail me.

[Leith_Hibee]

Fans not renewing season tickets need to take some flack too. You cannot change the personnel without funds. They've done pretty well considering. Gray, Allen, Kennedy and Al Gooey all good signings.

[Hibeewilly]

Any chief executive is answerable to the owner. I never really thought that replacing Petrie with Dempster was going to make much of a difference unless Tom Farmer either radically changes his approach or sells the club.

Very difficult job, which I have no doubt she's getting paid handsomely for. I just don't see an awful lot changing until we change owners for someone who wants to invest for sporting success.
Far too sensible a post hibbydog

[Pretty Boy]

Fans not renewing season tickets need to take some flack too. You cannot change the personnel without funds. They've done pretty well considering. Gray, Allen, Kennedy and Al Gooey all good signings.

Nope sorry don't buy that and I speak as a renewer. It's about time the club actually gave people an incentive to buy.

If you shopped in Tesco but their products got progressively worse over a 5 year period yet they charged prices comparable to Waitrose would you continue to shop there?

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

Fans not renewing season tickets need to take some flack too. You cannot change the personnel without funds. They've done pretty well considering. Gray, Allen, Kennedy and Al Gooey all good signings.
:confused:
Is RP slipping you a tenner for your PM subs??

[Golden Bear]

Investment doesn't guarantee instant success - look at Man United.

And we should have been capable of beating tiny Alloa yesterday with no investment at all, we didn't. I wasn't there so can't comment on the game itself but from what I read Alloa deserved their win mainly because their Players showed more pride, more desire and more adventure. Now that's the bit I find really worrying.

[Weir7]

Fans not renewing season tickets need to take some flack too. You cannot change the personnel without funds. They've done pretty well considering. Gray, Allen, Kennedy and Al Gooey all good signings.

Ten tickets bought in my family grand parents through to grand kids. I'm more to blame than anybody.

Farmer and petrie only understand one thing £££££££££££££ if season tickets fell off a cliff they would act. But we put up with this year after year

[JimBHibees]

Fans not renewing season tickets need to take some flack too. You cannot change the personnel without funds. They've done pretty well considering. Gray, Allen, Kennedy and Al Gooey all good signings.

It's chicken and egg though many fans were no doubt looking for a clear statement of intent in terms of signings. For whatever reason we have been slower to get players in though we do need to still appreciate it is still very early days in the season. By Tuesday we will know how serious we are. Stubbs is doing the right thing IMO taking his time to get the right players in. His signings look good to me.

We have 7k seasons I think which given all that has happened is IMO a reasonable response by the fans.

[One Day Soon]

It's not looking good admittedly but we're only 4 games into the season so I'm not going to jump off the Forth Bridge just yet. A change of ownership doesn't necessarily mean that the Players will be capable of producing improved performances - that's the remit of the coaches and of course the players themselves.

And so for some of the blame already being attributed to Leanne Dempster and our new Manager then words fail me.


Well they don't fail me.

You can cut it any way you like but we have a manager who doesn't have the team winning. We have a Chief Executive who appears to be failing in the aim of getting us back first time of asking. Regardless of the circumstances they are clearly failing in that objective to date.

If it is because of lack of players then that is either the fault of Stubbs for not finding and signing the players we need or it is the fault of Dempster - who has publicly stated that she is in charge - for not backing up Stubbs by delivering the resources needed to bring those players in. And if in either case it is not their fault because they are being stymied by others above them, then they are even more culpable because they are holding positions at the club for which they are drawing significant salaries while not being honest with us about what is going on.

And when you consider all of the above against the ticking parcel that is the closing window for transfers I'd say we have every right to be extremely pessimistic about what is coming next. Particularly when we were already about 5 players short of what we need - before Farid got injured.

In naval terms I believe the whole thing would be known as dereliction of duty.

[Golden Bear]

Well they don't fail me.

You can cut it any way you like but we have a manager who doesn't have the team winning. We have a Chief Executive who appears to be failing in the aim of getting us back first time of asking. Regardless of the circumstances they are clearly failing in that objective to date.

If it is because of lack of players then that is either the fault of Stubbs for not finding and signing the players we need or it is the fault of Dempster - who has publicly stated that she is in charge - for not backing up Stubbs by delivering the resources needed to bring those players in. And if in either case it is not their fault because they are being stymied by others above them, then they are even more culpable because they are holding positions at the club for which they are drawing significant salaries while not being honest with us about what is going on.

And when you consider all of the above against the ticking parcel that is the closing window for transfers I'd say we have every right to be extremely pessimistic about what is coming next. Particularly when we were already about 5 players short of what we need - before Farid got injured.

In naval terms I believe the whole thing would be known as dereliction of duty.


Yes, I understand some of that but neither you nor I know what efforts have already been made to sign players. We're in the so called Championship which I suspect, is not an attractive proposition for "quality" players. However I hope that signing Players for the sake of signing Players is long behind us - the last few years have surely proved that.

[green&left]

Fans not renewing season tickets need to take some flack too. You cannot change the personnel without funds. They've done pretty well considering. Gray, Allen, Kennedy and Al Gooey all good signings.

Utter *****.

We've got the 5th highest amount of season ticket holders in Scotland after Celtic, The Rangers, Hertz and Aberdeen.

That should be plenty enough resources to compete against Falkirk, Dumbarton and Alloa.

Inverness and newly promoted Hamilton have a quarter of the number of season ticket holders we have (infact probably less) and are sitting 1st and 2nd respectively in the Premiership. We're sitting 8th in the Championship.

[One Day Soon]

Yes, I understand some of that but neither you nor I know what efforts have already been made to sign players. We're in the so called Championship which I suspect, is not an attractive proposition for "quality" players. However I hope that signing Players for the sake of signing Players is long behind us - the last few years have surely proved that.

I couldn't give a flying ****** what 'efforts' may have been made to sign players. We have either signed them or we have not. So far we have not. That means we are failing.

We can't field players we have attempted but failed to sign. There is a 24 hour window left and once again we are grubbing around at the tail end of it hoping to sign kids, journeymen and other team's rejects.

We are at a point in this club's history where actions are everything and talk is nothing. We need to send a message to these jokers and I'd start by boycotting all interaction with Dempster until we see real change. You can't spin a cobblers line about good intentions and ambitions to an empty room.

We don't need someone to describe the journey to the promised land to us, we need someone to back up their stated intent with real action to materially improve the team on the park. Everything else is verbal onanism for the Hibernian supporting masses.

[Pretty Boy]

I couldn't give a flying ****** what 'efforts' may have been made to sign players. We have either signed them or we have not. So far we have not. That means we are failing.

We can't field players we have attempted but failed to sign. There is a 24 hour window left and once again we are grubbing around at the tail end of it hoping to sign kids, journeymen and other team's rejects.

We are at a point in this club's history where actions are everything and talk is nothing. We need to send a message to these jokers and I'd start by boycotting all interaction with Dempster until we see real change. You can't spin a cobblers line about good intentions and ambitions to an empty room.

We don't need someone to describe the journey to the promised land to us, we need someone to back up their stated intent with real action to materially improve the team on the park. Everything else is verbal onanism for the Hibernian supporting masses.

:top marks

[Golden Bear]

I couldn't give a flying ****** what 'efforts' may have been made to sign players. We have either signed them or we have not. So far we have not. That means we are failing.

We can't field players we have attempted but failed to sign. There is a 24 hour window left and once again we are grubbing around at the tail end of it hoping to sign kids, journeymen and other team's rejects.

We are at a point in this club's history where actions are everything and talk is nothing. We need to send a message to these jokers and I'd start by boycotting all interaction with Dempster until we see real change. You can't spin a cobblers line about good intentions and ambitions to an empty room.

We don't need someone to describe the journey to the promised land to us, we need someone to back up their stated intent with real action to materially improve the team on the park. Everything else is verbal onanism for the Hibernian supporting masses.

Aye come the revolution everything will be fine in the land of milk and honey.

[southsider]

She has said the buck stops with her. If we don't get Leigh she is gona get absolute pelters at the next LWT meeting. One win out of 4 in what is basically a pub team league. A disgrace.

[NAE NOOKIE]

Aye come the revolution everything will be fine in the land of milk and honey.

We are Scotland's 5th biggest club ..... on a good day possibly its 4th biggest.

Finishing third in the top league and winning a cup is a target which a club of our size should realistically aim for at the start of a season.

All of a sudden that target became making the top six and maybe a cup semi.

Then the target became staying in the top league.

Then the target became winning the Championship.

Now the target is hopefully make the Championship play offs.

Exactly how low do the fortunes of the club have to go before 'revolution' stops being something to laugh about and deride and start being something that is an imperative to the clubs survival as any sort of force in Scottish football.

For my part the way things are going under this lot we had better maintain our current good relations with Spartans because it wont be too many years until we are ground sharing with them.

But as Sir Tom says ......... as long as we have a club to support eh!

[Fife-Hibee]

I couldn't give a flying ****** what 'efforts' may have been made to sign players. We have either signed them or we have not. So far we have not. That means we are failing.

We can't field players we have attempted but failed to sign. There is a 24 hour window left and once again we are grubbing around at the tail end of it hoping to sign kids, journeymen and other team's rejects.

We are at a point in this club's history where actions are everything and talk is nothing. We need to send a message to these jokers and I'd start by boycotting all interaction with Dempster until we see real change. You can't spin a cobblers line about good intentions and ambitions to an empty room.

We don't need someone to describe the journey to the promised land to us, we need someone to back up their stated intent with real action to materially improve the team on the park. Everything else is verbal onanism for the Hibernian supporting masses.

Excellent 10/10

[Hibeesmad]

Hopefully she can tell those at the meeting who is signing 😉

[Gavin1875]

Fans not renewing season tickets need to take some flack too. You cannot change the personnel without funds. They've done pretty well considering. Gray, Allen, Kennedy and Al Gooey all good signings.

You are also a big part off the problem. I've never read so much keech in all my life. It's a pity more fans DIDNT renew then this dictatorship would have little choice but to resign or heavily put money in but year on year people continue to be patronised and pandered too

[greenpaper55]

We are Scotland's 5th biggest club ..... on a good day possibly its 4th biggest.

Finishing third in the top league and winning a cup is a target which a club of our size should realistically aim for at the start of a season.

All of a sudden that target became making the top six and maybe a cup semi.

Then the target became staying in the top league.

Then the target became winning the Championship.

Now the target is hopefully make the Championship play offs.

Exactly how low do the fortunes of the club have to go before 'revolution' stops being something to laugh about and deride and start being something that is an imperative to the clubs survival as any sort of force in Scottish football.

For my part the way things are going under this lot we had better maintain our current good relations with Spartans because it wont be too many years until we are ground sharing with them.

But as Sir Tom says ......... as long as we have a club to support eh!

:top marksI've said all along that TF and RP will still think we are a success as we are still trundling along and managing to keep the debt to a respectable level, they don't give a flying f*** whether we win or lose and what division we play in, do you think that pair will be sitting fuming this morning about yesterdays result ?.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

R ther N/A yams n 2day?

What a weird post.

[Jones28]

I think you're under-estimating our new CEO. She is not a yes woman by any means.

3 managers - with Stubbs being the best of the 3, have worked with most of these players and are so far not getting much out of them.

We have a chicken-**** captain who gets more bookings for mouthing off and talking back at refs than goals. Our shining light in Alagui is now probably out for the season.

We have signed some quality but I don't think anyone could have estimated just how **** we are. We need/needed at least 1 player for every position on the park. There's a whole squad that could be moved on without them being missed.

Couple that with an ex manager who got us relegated and then decides to take every penny from the club he can. I actually despise butcher more than calderwood for it.

Blaming managers and CEOs is getting us nowhere.

[Ringothedog]

I couldn't give a flying ****** what 'efforts' may have been made to sign players. We have either signed them or we have not. So far we have not. That means we are failing.

We can't field players we have attempted but failed to sign. There is a 24 hour window left and once again we are grubbing around at the tail end of it hoping to sign kids, journeymen and other team's rejects.

We are at a point in this club's history where actions are everything and talk is nothing. We need to send a message to these jokers and I'd start by boycotting all interaction with Dempster until we see real change. You can't spin a cobblers line about good intentions and ambitions to an empty room.

We don't need someone to describe the journey to the promised land to us, we need someone to back up their stated intent with real action to materially improve the team on the park. Everything else is verbal onanism for the Hibernian supporting masses.

I have just emailed hibs stating I will not be attending the consultation tomorrow as I personally don't think talking will achieve anything. Hibernian as a club is a shambles from top to bottom. There is no leadership off or on the park. The club is slowly dieing and there is nothing we can do to stop it as we are lumbered with an owner who does not care one iota about Hibernian.

[Keith_M]

Most of the Fans thought we needed a fresh start, to clearout the total losers that got us relegated. Those in charge have given us 5 (arguably 6) new players.

The losers that have hung around since last season have shown yesterday just how bad they really are. We needed a total clearout, we needed a large influx of new players, now it's too late.

I've so far seen nothing from Ms Dempster that shows any imagination or improvement on what Petrie did. 'Focus Groups' just don't cut it when we're sh*te where it matters.

[HappyAsHellas]

We are not up keech creek without a paddle, I see it more as being cast adrift in a rather stormy sea of the stuff, and we are at the bottom of a somewhat deep and menacing trough. But if I look up, I can still see the crest we should be riding on, and hopefully if we get the three signings tomorrow then it may look possible to get up there. LD and AS have started their respective jobs in difficult conditions, and both seem to be hurting and wanting more to repay us. Will they succeed given the time, and funding? I really don't know, but come rain, hail or shine I will be at ER on Saturday, cheering on the finest football team on planet earth. That's after giving them some stick at the meetings of course.

[Alfred E Newman]

You are also a big part off the problem. I've never read so much keech in all my life. It's a pity more fans DIDNT renew then this dictatorship would have little choice but to resign or heavily put money in but year on year people continue to be patronised and pandered too

So are you saying the season ticket holders are the problem? If you are then that really is keech.

[WestStandMoaner]

I couldn't give a flying ****** what 'efforts' may have been made to sign players. We have either signed them or we have not. So far we have not. That means we are failing.

We can't field players we have attempted but failed to sign. There is a 24 hour window left and once again we are grubbing around at the tail end of it hoping to sign kids, journeymen and other team's rejects.

We are at a point in this club's history where actions are everything and talk is nothing. We need to send a message to these jokers and I'd start by boycotting all interaction with Dempster until we see real change. You can't spin a cobblers line about good intentions and ambitions to an empty room.

We don't need someone to describe the journey to the promised land to us, we need someone to back up their stated intent with real action to materially improve the team on the park. Everything else is verbal onanism for the Hibernian supporting masses.:top marks

Well said, too many times people have talked the talk, time for action

[silverhibee]

Fans not renewing season tickets need to take some flack too. You cannot change the personnel without funds. They've done pretty well considering. Gray, Allen, Kennedy and Al Gooey all good signings.

5th in ST sales in Scotland and a small squad, where has the money gone, £200k will take care of wages for the 4 you have mentioned, did we spend the rest on Handlings contract or the 20 coaches we brought in over the summer, no chance has the manager spent all his budget yet.

[silverhibee]

What ever happened to Steve Marsella the gem finder.

[steakbake]

All the noises from the club implied that, while it would be nice to win the league, basically we were going for play offs. In this way we could say we going for promotion at the first time of asking. In short we bottled it, took the cheap option again. If Leanne had vision she would have realised that we needed to make a really big summer signing spree, which would have kick started supporters into buying season tickets. The way the club is run almost guarantees that fans are lost bit by bit every year.

Bang on with that. For the club's objectives to be anything less than winning the Championship is to accept failure before a ball was even kicked.

At the moment, I'm a Hibs fan in name only. Tired of the club's continual stream of pish, tired of the absentee owner.

[southsider]

5th in ST sales in Scotland and a small squad, where has the money gone, £200k will take care of wages for the 4 you have mentioned, did we spend the rest on Handlings contract or the 20 coaches we brought in over the summer, no chance has the manager spent all his budget yet.
We are still paying those twats butcher & malpas.

[steakbake]

We are still paying those twats butcher & malpas.

Good bit of business negotiation that was... extended gardening leave has sapped the club of funds (season ticket money anyone?) for several managers in quick succession.

If I ran a business, I'd like 100 of the man who's got that good a record in identifying quality staff...

[basehibby]

Fans not renewing season tickets need to take some flack too. You cannot change the personnel without funds. They've done pretty well considering. Gray, Allen, Kennedy and Al Gooey all good signings.

I really don't think this line holds any water at all - historic records clearly demonstrate that, regardless of the amount of STs sold, Hibs can rely on about 10K supporters turning up to watch their home matches - a bit less if the football is pish and significantly more if there's anything remotely resembling exciting football being displayed by the team in green and white. THESE are the figures that Hibs should be basing their budgetary forecasts on rather than anything else.

Setting the player budget purely on the amount of STs sold is a flawed strategy which is setting us up for failure. Football supporters by and large need an incentive to buy a ST other than a rosy glow of knowing that you've helped the balance books look a bit tidier. In our current situation, the incentive of guaranteeing a seat for sell out matches is non-existant - we all know that we can get a ticket for pretty much any game we want - the problem that has been created by the club is the stretching of any desire to attend ER to breaking point and beyond due to the unabating pish that we are continually served up there.

What the club needs to do is show a bit of faith and courage and put some players on the pitch who are commensurate and deserving of the ambitions, aspirations quality and quantity consistently demonstrated by the support - these aspirations are not unrealistic, a team that can give our dear neighbours a fully deserved spanking as often as not would be a great start - and a team that performs consistently in keeping with the top 5 status of our support within the Scottish game would be a good thing to be going on with.

[southsider]

Last time Alloa beat us in the league we had not long returned from a tour of Brazil. Now we cannot afford to tour Little France. Go figure.

[yankyhibby]

Yes, I understand some of that but neither you nor I know what efforts have already been made to sign players. We're in the so called Championship which I suspect, is not an attractive proposition for "quality" players. However I hope that signing Players for the sake of signing Players is long behind us - the last few years have surely proved that.

This logic discounts the fact that Hearts have put together a squad of sufficient quality and fight in this division. They are the example we must turn to. This argument also that they are ahead of us in terms of preparation is weak and flawed. They installed an overlord - Levein - a master at assembling teams that are hard to break down and beat. The result: a team that looks like romping away with the league after a mere 4 games. We went for a risky option - a guy with absolutely no managerial experience, but all the enthusiasm in the world and a who, to date, is failing more than succeeding in terms of putting points on the board. I like Alan Stubbs and I truly want him to do well. I am trying desperately also to want to believe in the ability of a complete managerial novice to get us promoted in his very first season and venture as a manager.

[silverhibee]

We are still paying those twats butcher & malpas.

Not out of the ST sold we aren't, or we have been lied to.

[yankyhibby]

I really don't think this line holds any water at all - historic records clearly demonstrate that, regardless of the amount of STs sold, Hibs can rely on about 10K supporters turning up to watch their home matches - a bit less if the football is pish and significantly more if there's anything remotely resembling exciting football being displayed by the team in green and white. THESE are the figures that Hibs should be basing their budgetary forecasts on rather than anything else.

Setting the player budget purely on the amount of STs sold is a flawed strategy which is setting us up for failure. Football supporters by and large need an incentive to buy a ST other than a rosy glow of knowing that you've helped the balance books look a bit tidier. In our current situation, the incentive of guaranteeing a seat for sell out matches is non-existant - we all know that we can get a ticket for pretty much any game we want - the problem that has been created by the club is the stretching of any desire to attend ER to breaking point and beyond due to the unabating pish that we are continually served up there.

What the club needs to do is show a bit of faith and courage and put some players on the pitch who are commensurate and deserving of the ambitions, aspirations quality and quantity consistently demonstrated by the support - these aspirations are not unrealistic, a team that can give our dear neighbours a fully deserved spanking as often as not would be a great start - and a team that performs consistently in keeping with the top 5 status of our support within the Scottish game would be a good thing to be going on with.

I concur.

[Ronniekirk]

We are Scotland's 5th biggest club ..... on a good day possibly its 4th biggest.

Finishing third in the top league and winning a cup is a target which a club of our size should realistically aim for at the start of a season.

All of a sudden that target became making the top six and maybe a cup semi.

Then the target became staying in the top league.

Then the target became winning the Championship.

Now the target is hopefully make the Championship play offs.

Exactly how low do the fortunes of the club have to go before 'revolution' stops being something to laugh about and deride and start being something that is an imperative to the clubs survival as any sort of force in Scottish football.

For my part the way things are going under this lot we had better maintain our current good relations with Spartans because it wont be too many years until we are ground sharing with them.

But as Sir Tom says ......... as long as we have a club to support eh!
I am all for identifying with the local community ,and having closer links between community organisations and hibs and utilising the ground to include more community activities .But when that becomes the main focus and we don't invest in the the team we are in danger of becoming a great Community Resource while other smaller clubs show ambition to get promoted up the leagues and take our place .

[jacomo]

What ever happened to Steve Marsella the gem finder.

He reports to Graeme Mathie, who presumably is in charge of bringing players in tomorrow.

http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/football/forever-hibernian-still-keen-for-control.25024673

[Jonnyboy]

I have just emailed hibs stating I will not be attending the consultation tomorrow as I personally don't think talking will achieve anything. Hibernian as a club is a shambles from top to bottom. There is no leadership off or on the park. The club is slowly dieing and there is nothing we can do to stop it as we are lumbered with an owner who does not care one iota about Hibernian.

In doing so you have effectively removed yourself from a position of being able to ask the questions that need answers

[Baldy Foghorn]

In doing so you have effectively removed yourself from a position of being able to ask the questions that need answers

Ironic eh.....

[WhileTheChief..]

"We tried really, really hard to get LG. Honest, it wasn't our fault. Buy more season tickets."

I'll be amazed if we hear much more than this.

[One Day Soon]

"We tried really, really hard to get LG. Honest, it wasn't our fault. Buy more season tickets."

I'll be amazed if we hear much more than this.

This is part of the reason why I don't think it is worthwhile engaging until after the window has closed. If then even.

You would think that someone who couldn't deliver something they really wanted because the other side wouldn't agree to it would have - to use a very current parallel - a meaningful Plan B.

It doesn't really matter what Leanne or any of the others have to say by way of flannel. The only thing that matters is what they do. So far they have done nowhere near enough. Maybe that will have changed by the time the window closes. Maybe.

As a football club our core business and sole purpose is football. Everything else is - however worthy -peripheral. So until the football is right there is no relenting as far as I am concerned. Might have been different if we were at the start of the desperate year on year on year slide we have been experiencing, but we aren't. We are at the far end of it so that means there is no tolerance and no patience. All those in post at the club know that, whether they are time served or new in the door.