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macca70
24-08-2014, 12:04 AM
The whole infrastructure has changed but the playing staff that got us relegated remains much the same!!

Conrats to James McD today and Falkirk.

Our club is a shambles at the moment and the sooner it's sold to someone more passionate the better

yankyhibby
24-08-2014, 12:11 AM
The whole infrastructure has changed but the playing staff that got us relegated remains much the same!!

Conrats to James McD today and Falkirk.

Our club is a shambles at the moment and the sooner it's sold to someone more passionate the better

Alan Stubbs, in his post Falkirk interview, once again referred to the mental side of our game and how he feels that the negative attitude shared by many of his players who suffered relegation last season is continuing to affect the same players this season. This is a worry, but hopefully something that a little clear out and quality replacements will put right.

djs69
24-08-2014, 12:11 AM
7 in starting line up weren't to blame for relegation, so whats your point??

blackpoolhibs
24-08-2014, 12:14 AM
The whole infrastructure has changed but the playing staff that got us relegated remains much the same!!

Conrats to James McD today and Falkirk.

Our club is a shambles at the moment and the sooner it's sold to someone more passionate the better

Well said, STF has had his arse licked and kissed by so many for so long, yet we are as you said a shambles of a club, with a football team an absolute joke.

Yet we were saved from extinction what was it 24 years ago, so ****in what. A large majority of the clubs supporters were not even born, and couldnt give a toss.

Sell the club, give it away or just leave. And let the club live for a change instead of stifling the life out of it.

yankyhibby
24-08-2014, 12:19 AM
7 in starting line up weren't to blame for relegation, so whats your point??

You should direct your question at Alan Stubbs, as he is the man who repeatedly refers to the mental side of our game spilling over from last season affecting players. He does not mention numbers of players.

djs69
24-08-2014, 12:25 AM
I was referring to the original post and his point

yankyhibby
24-08-2014, 12:37 AM
I was referring to the original post and his point

My apologies.

scoopyboy
24-08-2014, 05:26 AM
7 in starting line up weren't to blame for relegation, so whats your point??

So out of Forster, Nelson, Harris, Craig and Heffernan what one are you excusing for getting relegated?

leither17
24-08-2014, 05:57 AM
So out of Forster, Nelson, Harris, Craig and Heffernan what one are you excusing for getting relegated?

All of them played a part

Alfred E Newman
24-08-2014, 06:12 AM
Well said, STF has had his arse licked and kissed by so many for so long, yet we are as you said a shambles of a club, with a football team an absolute joke.

Yet we were saved from extinction what was it 24 years ago, so ****in what. A large majority of the clubs supporters were not even born, and couldnt give a toss.

Sell the club, give it away or just leave. And let the club live for a change instead of stifling the life out of it.

What a ridiculous statement.

scoopyboy
24-08-2014, 07:08 AM
All of them played a part

I would agree with that but the poster said seven out of the starting eleven weren't to blame for relegation, as there were five starters from last season then he obviously feels one wasn't to blame.

Ronniekirk
24-08-2014, 08:33 AM
You should direct your question at Alan Stubbs, as he is the man who repeatedly refers to the mental side of our game spilling over from last season affecting players. He does not mention numbers of players.
It's like the crystal maze let's play a mental game this time It doesn't take a crystal ball
to know some players don't handle the pressure .We were told there would be a complete clear out but relegation put paid to T B s plans and left us financially unable to follow through with that plan once new management and backroom were brought in .The cheap option was let's wait and see if Stubbs can get something different out these players and add a limited amount of better quality players into the mix and hope things change .
We could have had money for Craig but we have chosen to keep him and he has retained captaincy but the penalty miss against hearts has clearly affected his game and we saw the evidence of that yesterday . It may just take a few games against the so called poorer teams in the division to get us back on track but when we play teams challenging for top four and the pressure is on as we are playing catch up there will always be a concern that some players don't handle situation and that starts to affect the younger players eg Harris got worse as game went on IMO and started losing possession when we were attacking and they countered with purpose and had us on back foot hence the drab crab football with no leadership or guile to know what to do .
Heff is just past his best by date I think but again Stubbs chose to keep him .

Ironically Nelson has done ok and when fit and focused has a bit of steel about him but he has been told he can go .
This late in Transfer window we will now struggle to get quality players in especially when we have lost three of our first four games so suspect our options are now limited.
Keating's getting a Hat trick and keeping hearts at the top doesn't help as it shows there were players out there who can score at this level .
On the positive side if Kennedy can replicate that first half performance he will create .Allan will get better as he gets more game time Cummings now has to get his opportunity ahead of Heff .Hanlon has to come back in .
But where does that leave handling and Stanton Playing them and dropping them won't helptheir confidence and bringing them on late in game expecting them to change the game when we are losing is probably asking too Mutch of them at present

The transfer window and what we do and the next six games will determine if we can get back on track and mount a challenge or whether we are stuck already settling for a top four finish

Green Cabbage 7
24-08-2014, 09:55 AM
Correct me if am wrong but I seem to remember Pat Stanton saying, he would only keep 2/3 if your lucky, can't remember where I heard this, think it was I. The Q&A, he did for the St Pats branch

blackpoolhibs
24-08-2014, 10:00 AM
What a ridiculous statement.

I think you need to expand a little?:confused:

djs69
24-08-2014, 10:02 AM
All of them played a part

Not that I need to justify my thoughts but Heffernan was bad but only played half the season, Harris was injured early doors and only played about a dozen games and most of them were when he wasn't for enough and brought back into a struggling team, so I don't think you can blame them

Alfred E Newman
24-08-2014, 10:06 AM
I think you need to expand a little?:confused:
Without Farmers intervention those supporters not born would now be following Hearts or some other outfit. There would be no Hibs , no hibs.net and no stupid posts like yours.

blackpoolhibs
24-08-2014, 10:11 AM
Without Farmers intervention those supporters not born would now be following Hearts or some other outfit. There would be no Hibs , no hibs.net and no stupid posts like yours.

Aye right, a club would have risen again even if mercer had achieved his goal. There will always be a hibs.

truehibernian
24-08-2014, 11:50 AM
I would agree with that but the poster said seven out of the starting eleven weren't to blame for relegation, as there were five starters from last season then he obviously feels one wasn't to blame.

Scoopy, for me the vital ingredient missing in each of the players from last season is bravery - I chose the word carefully as I dont want it to be misconstrued as a dig at players who 'don't challenge' etc.

What I mean is, players like Alex and Liam, are playing a safe kind of football - the easy ball. They are not playing with their head up, and taking a chance to beat a man, beat a man and play an incisive ball - they are more keen to cut inside and play square so as to not incur the wrath of supporters.

Last season cannot be changed, this season can - with belief and bravery in our football. You see with our rivals, their young players are encouraged to take a chance, Nicolson for example will beat men one minute then run into one the next. Paterson reminds me of McMinn - great one minute, ganting the next. But he has the bravery to take men on, take a wee chance. Same with the young lad McLeod at The Rangers (who by the way gets pelters from their support yet is a confident young man and doesn't let it affect him).

The senior players also need to be more visible on the pitch - by that I mean the support need to see them lead, see them instruct, see them really get involved in orchestrating - not pointing a lot, running after refs, and taking their mind off the game as it rages around them.

Someone like McFadden would have been a perfect fit - experienced, been in the game long enough to know the mistakes and periods of a young players life where he may lose form - and himself still a very good, influential player on the park.

Also a McManus type centre half, not afraid to get the shirt sleeves rolled up, but also able to instil calm at the back. And continuing on the 'Well theme, our midfield needs a Lasley type player - hard as nails, but can play a bit and gets up the pitch.

Our squad needs 4 players, minimum - we won't get that in my opinion. I think we will be extremely lucky to get two in, and I think they will be loans. Which does not bode well for the future team/squad building exercise (for me).

blackpoolhibs
24-08-2014, 12:45 PM
Absolutely, we would be champions league winners by now had that pesky STF not stopped us disappearing.

Thats the best answer i have ever heard for wishing mercer had succeeded. Personally i think you are wrong. :wink: Nobody has ever said STF did not do a good thing, and EVERYONE was happy he did.

He's outstayed his welcome now though in my opinion.

Big Frank
24-08-2014, 12:48 PM
Spot on Blackpool Hibs.

Onceinawhile
24-08-2014, 12:53 PM
Aye right, a club would have risen again even if mercer had achieved his goal. There will always be a hibs.

And the scottish cup clock would have been reset.

blackpoolhibs
24-08-2014, 12:55 PM
And the scottish cup clock would have been reset.

:agree: Another great reason, anyone else think we missed the boat here with mercer?

blackpoolhibs
24-08-2014, 01:14 PM
You must know them.
You are the one that said a large majority of the supporters couldn't give a toss STF saved us.

i meant those who were not born when the mercer takeover was happening.

NAE NOOKIE
24-08-2014, 01:47 PM
What a ridiculous statement.

In as much as STF did a great thing 20 odd years ago, to say "so what" is indeed a bit OTT ...... what he did makes him a legend in the history of this club.

But for how long does the respect and gratitude he is rightfully due for his actions a quarter of a century ago absolve him of taking responsibility for the way the club has performed on the field under his ownership?

Hibs as I have said before is not like some picture saved for the nation by a public spirited philanthropist ..... it is more than that. A huge part of the package with any football club is the people who support it. They have an emotional attachment to the clubs fortunes ... they need to feel pride and get enjoyment from the clubs achievements .... they will stick by it in the inevitable bad times, but they need to know that the owners share their pain and will pull out every stop to bring on field success.

Any owner of any club anywhere in the wold who thinks that putting a team on the park on a Saturday so that the fans have something to watch is the beginning and end of their responsibility either just doesn't care ( in which case they have no business owning a club ) or are incredibly nave ........... I don't think our owner is nave.

Its a bit like saving the Sistine Chapel, making massive improvements to the building and then getting Giuseppe's painters and decorators from down the road in to do restoration on Michelangelo's sublime masterpiece.

Ach .................. Ah kent the ceiling was really important and folk love it likes, but um no really intae pictures.

The Leith Dutch
24-08-2014, 01:57 PM
Scoopy, for me the vital ingredient missing in each of the players from last season is bravery - I chose the word carefully as I dont want it to be misconstrued as a dig at players who 'don't challenge' etc.

What I mean is, players like Alex and Liam, are playing a safe kind of football - the easy ball. They are not playing with their head up, and taking a chance to beat a man, beat a man and play an incisive ball - they are more keen to cut inside and play square so as to not incur the wrath of supporters.

Last season cannot be changed, this season can - with belief and bravery in our football. You see with our rivals, their young players are encouraged to take a chance, Nicolson for example will beat men one minute then run into one the next. Paterson reminds me of McMinn - great one minute, ganting the next. But he has the bravery to take men on, take a wee chance. Same with the young lad McLeod at The Rangers (who by the way gets pelters from their support yet is a confident young man and doesn't let it affect him).

The senior players also need to be more visible on the pitch - by that I mean the support need to see them lead, see them instruct, see them really get involved in orchestrating - not pointing a lot, running after refs, and taking their mind off the game as it rages around them.

Someone like McFadden would have been a perfect fit - experienced, been in the game long enough to know the mistakes and periods of a young players life where he may lose form - and himself still a very good, influential player on the park.

Also a McManus type centre half, not afraid to get the shirt sleeves rolled up, but also able to instil calm at the back. And continuing on the 'Well theme, our midfield needs a Lasley type player - hard as nails, but can play a bit and gets up the pitch.

Our squad needs 4 players, minimum - we won't get that in my opinion. I think we will be extremely lucky to get two in, and I think they will be loans. Which does not bode well for the future team/squad building exercise (for me).

Lots to agree with here.

I think Liam Craig is a good example of this lack of bravery - he seems so worried about misplacing a pass that he's passing behind the Hibs player (and often reasonably softly) which makes much of what we do static. I was reasonably impressed with Allan yesterday who looked like he was trying to hit firmer passes for his team mates to run on to. Not saying for a second that Allan had a great game yesterday but looked like he was being a little more adventurous with his passing.

One Day Soon
24-08-2014, 02:12 PM
STF saved this club from extinction and should always have our gratitude for that. The action he took all those years ago has nothing whatsoever to do with what is happening at the club now and which has been dragging on for several years.

Under his stewardship we have been inexorably deteriorating year on year over most of the last decade. What once was golden and great is now turning to dust.

No point saving survivors of the Titanic only to starve them to death on the way back to dry land.

Everything has its time and place. STF secured his place in our history but he now needs to act to pass on the baton - or step up to the plate himself again - to avoid tarnishing that place or destroying the club. Or both.

Alfred E Newman
24-08-2014, 02:15 PM
i meant those who were not born when the mercer takeover was happening.

Regardless of your current views on Tom Farmer , those not born should still be taught to be grateful for what he did to defeat Mercer.

blackpoolhibs
24-08-2014, 05:21 PM
Regardless of your current views on Tom Farmer , those not born should still be taught to be grateful for what he did to defeat Mercer.

Aye right, my boy couldn't care less about what happened 25 years ago. He'd rather concentrate on the now and see a team and club lead by charismatic leaders who lead from the front.

He wouldn't recognise STF if he walked pass him in the street, and is baffled just how far we have dropped.

greenlex
24-08-2014, 05:38 PM
Harris Craig Heffernan Robertson and probably Stanton all still affected by lasts years relegation. All seem to have a mental problem getting over it. As a club we need to move on and to do this the older ones need shipped out ASAP and the younger ones need time in the under 20's. If they then cannot progress mentally then they too also need to move on. All the fans still affected mentally too it seems. We don't have any money to bring in replacements to make this happen so be prepared to have a spell in this division.

Alfred E Newman
24-08-2014, 05:59 PM
Aye right, my boy couldn't care less about what happened 25 years ago. He'd rather concentrate on the now and see a team and club lead by charismatic leaders who lead from the front.

He wouldn't recognise STF if he walked pass him in the street, and is baffled just how far we have dropped.

Oh well, if Sir Tom reads this he might wonder why he bothered.

blackpoolhibs
24-08-2014, 06:08 PM
Oh well, if Sir Tom reads this he might wonder why he bothered.

As do i.

greenpaper55
24-08-2014, 06:22 PM
Oh well, if Sir Tom reads this he might wonder why he bothered.

He might have bothered a few years ago but he certainly doesn't bother now, Hibs will never die but for all Petrie and Farmer care we could be in the 3rd division. They are not footballing people and they probably wonder what we are moaning at after all we still have a club so what's the problem !.

Weir7
24-08-2014, 06:28 PM
Without Farmers intervention those supporters not born would now be following Hearts or some other outfit. There would be no Hibs , no hibs.net and no stupid posts like yours.

Plenty other people bought shares to stop mercer
Not just farmer. People who didn't have his millions

Also, if duff and gray had sold theirs there was nothing nobody could have done.

Also, the aggressive tactics carried out by the lads left mercer in no doubt what would have happened.

When he did take the club over there were other parties wanting to buy it

So if farmer hadn't bought us we would still have survived.

Weir7
24-08-2014, 06:31 PM
Oh well, if Sir Tom reads this he might wonder why he bothered.

Wish he hadn't. Wish he and his hunderd rod Petrie's would do one

Turkish Green
24-08-2014, 06:35 PM
Aye right, a club would have risen again even if mercer had achieved his goal. There will always be a hibs.
Like there is a Leith Athletic, a St Bernard's and an Edinburgh City? Yes, Hibernian FC will not die but do you think it would get assistance from the SFA to enter in a lower division?

silverhibee
24-08-2014, 06:39 PM
Aye right, my boy couldn't care less about what happened 25 years ago. He'd rather concentrate on the now and see a team and club lead by charismatic leaders who lead from the front.

He wouldn't recognise STF if he walked pass him in the street, and is baffled just how far we have dropped.

I bet if you asked most of our squad who the owner was of Hibs they wouldn't have a clue and will never meet him while they are at Hibs.

My son went to Farmer auto care to get two tyres for his car last week, 90, f***ing rip off, i said that's STF for you, he said "who's that". :wink:

schinkenotto
24-08-2014, 08:27 PM
Plenty other people bought shares to stop mercer
Not just farmer. People who didn't have his millions

Also, if duff and gray had sold theirs there was nothing nobody could have done.

Also, the aggressive tactics carried out by the lads left mercer in no doubt what would have happened.

When he did take the club over there were other parties wanting to buy it

So if farmer hadn't bought us we would still have survived.

No we wouldn't.As you say,many fans(including me) bought shares to try to thwart Mercer at the time, but noone ,other than STF, with any reputation or credibility, was interested to clear the slate and start again.I was involved with Kenny Maclean Snr,George Stewart,Tom O'Malley,Douglas Cromb,Alan Gordon and others and my legal firm ,where I was a partner,in working day and night to save Hibs at that time and the scurrilous nonsense spoken about STF here is disgusting.He has a genuine affection for Leith(viz.Hibs Community Foundation) and the Club could not have a more solid bank guarantor,without which it could not exist.Those who are complaining should simply provide an equivalent bank guarantee and STF would be more than willing to step aside.
I am as upset as anyone about the present pathetic state of the Club(Jan 1973 was the best day of my Hibs life) and have no time for Petrie,but meaningless(and defamatory )talk ,wthout anything concrete to back it up,achieves nothing.

In addition all those,who initially bought shares in the previous company and now own shares in the Club were given them by the much maligned STF.

Weir7
24-08-2014, 08:48 PM
No we wouldn't.As you say,many fans(including me) bought shares to try to thwart Mercer at the time, but noone ,other than STF, with any reputation or credibility, was interested to clear the slate and start again.I was involved with Kenny Maclean Snr,George Stewart,Tom O'Malley,Douglas Cromb,Alan Gordon and others and my legal firm ,where I was a partner,in working day and night to save Hibs at that time and the scurrilous nonsense spoken about STF here is disgusting.He has a genuine affection for Leith(viz.Hibs Community Foundation) and the Club could not have a more solid bank guarantor,without which it could not exist.Those who are complaining should simply provide an equivalent bank guarantee and STF would be more than willing to step aside.
I am as upset as anyone about the present pathetic state of the Club(Jan 1973 was the best day of my Hibs life) and have no time for Petrie,but meaningless(and defamatory )talk ,wthout anything concrete to back it up,achieves nothing.

In addition all those,who initially bought shares in the previous company and now own shares in the Club were given them by the much maligned STF.
Yes we wld have. As for community foundation thats a joke. Probably set up say three or four years ago. Twenty years after farmer got involved With hibs
.
I suspect Plenty information will come out about farmer getting involved in hibs.

As i understand it Why was Simon pia stopped writing articles in Scotland on Sunday.

Only reason he had to be guarantor to debt run up by his own company. Itshis debt. Who has been in charge when the debt escalated to circa 19m ...... yes his one hundred rod Petrie's.

Yes it was a nice gesture in fans getting shares in the new company. Well done to farmer for that

Alfred E Newman
24-08-2014, 08:57 PM
No we wouldn't.As you say,many fans(including me) bought shares to try to thwart Mercer at the time, but noone ,other than STF, with any reputation or credibility, was interested to clear the slate and start again.I was involved with Kenny Maclean Snr,George Stewart,Tom O'Malley,Douglas Cromb,Alan Gordon and others and my legal firm ,where I was a partner,in working day and night to save Hibs at that time and the scurrilous nonsense spoken about STF here is disgusting.He has a genuine affection for Leith(viz.Hibs Community Foundation) and the Club could not have a more solid bank guarantor,without which it could not exist.Those who are complaining should simply provide an equivalent bank guarantee and STF would be more than willing to step aside.
I am as upset as anyone about the present pathetic state of the Club(Jan 1973 was the best day of my Hibs life) and have no time for Petrie,but meaningless(and defamatory )talk ,wthout anything concrete to back it up,achieves nothing.

In addition all those,who initially bought shares in the previous company and now own shares in the Club were given them by the much maligned STF.

Well said though I think you are wasting your breath.

schinkenotto
24-08-2014, 09:10 PM
Yes we wld have. As for community foundation thats a joke. Probably set up say three or four years ago. Twenty years after farmer got involved With hibs
.
I suspect Plenty information will come out about farmer getting involved in hibs.

As i understand it Why was Simon pia stopped writing articles in Scotland on Sunday.

Only reason he had to be guarantor to debt run up by his own company. Itshis debt. Who has been in charge when the debt escalated to circa 19m ...... yes his one hundred rod Petrie's.

Yes it was a nice gesture in fans getting shares in the new company. Well done to farmer for that

Those you say wanted to buy the Club at that time did not make themselves known to Hands off Hibs,who instigated the involvement of STF.Why are all those prospective purchasers of standing and repute you mention still invisible after all these years?As for Simon Pia,perhaps his allegations did not stand up to normal journalistic scrutiny.

Jonnyboy
24-08-2014, 10:11 PM
Aye right, a club would have risen again even if mercer had achieved his goal. There will always be a hibs.

And who'd support them G. Plenty on here don't even want to go and watch Hibs in the Championship

blackpoolhibs
24-08-2014, 10:27 PM
And who'd support them G. Plenty on here don't even want to go and watch Hibs in the Championship

And thats because a lot of folk have been sickened by the way the club has been run by the very man who saved the club for the community.

If we had gone to the wall, another club would have risen and ALL the supporters would have backed the club in its adversity, like we did do after winning the battle, and like hearts have done recently.

Our position now is nothing like that, and a lot of the support think the reason we are in this position is because of our owner and puppet.

There is a huge division in the club, even some of the fans who still go are very wary of just who is running things. It is supposed to be Dempster, yet nothings changed.

Quality over quantity was the new mantra, i don't see much of that. Brian McLean is rumoured to be coming in as Nelsons replacement, if this is the case then jesus christ almighty.

Unless the current owners get this club winning and back in its rightful place, i don't see this division closing.

Jonnyboy
24-08-2014, 10:39 PM
And thats because a lot of folk have been sickened by the way the club has been run by the very man who saved the club for the community.

If we had gone to the wall, another club would have risen and ALL the supporters would have backed the club in its adversity, like we did do after winning the battle, and like hearts have done recently.

Our position now is nothing like that, and a lot of the support think the reason we are in this position is because of our owner and puppet.

There is a huge division in the club, even some of the fans who still go are very wary of just who is running things. It is supposed to be Dempster, yet nothings changed.

Quality over quantity was the new mantra, i don't see much of that. Brian McLean is rumoured to be coming in as Nelsons replacement, if this is the case then jesus christ almighty.

Unless the current owners get this club winning and back in its rightful place, i don't see this division closing.

Sickened yes, but turning their backs on the team? I'm no fan of STF/RP and feel they adopted a kid then failed to feed it but I'll still support my team, come what may

blackpoolhibs
24-08-2014, 10:47 PM
Sickened yes, but turning their backs on the team? I'm no fan of STF/RP and feel they adopted a kid then failed to feed it but I'll still support my team, come what may

I would never criticize anyone who gets off their arse and goes to watch Hibs, but i understand 100% just why folk have stopped going or going less.

Not everyone will support the club come what may, and the club are seeing that now.

I agree totally your analogy of the situation, :agree: which is why i think it's vital we get new owners. :pray: