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NW
22-08-2014, 11:37 AM
The next step in the process is to get as many fans to give some feedback to the independent Supporters Direct to allow any plans to be fan driven

http://www.scottishfans.org/Hibs/

NW
22-08-2014, 11:41 AM
http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/28895855

Keith_M
22-08-2014, 11:42 AM
Thanks for the update


:thumbsup:

Golden Bear
22-08-2014, 11:43 AM
The next step in the process is to get as many fans to give some feedback to the independent Supporters Direct to allow any plans to be fan driven

http://ScottishFans.org/Hibs

Before anyone else mentions it, the link doesn't work from here but does work if you copy and paste it into your browser.

Golden Bear
22-08-2014, 11:44 AM
Before anyone else mentions it, the link doesn't work from here but does work if you copy and paste it into your browser.

Weird, the link does work in my reply saying that it didn't work in the original post.

:greengrin

Brightside
22-08-2014, 11:46 AM
Spam

NW
22-08-2014, 11:47 AM
Apologies if I've added a dud link.

Admin - can this be a sticky?

greenpaper55
22-08-2014, 11:47 AM
Spam

Corned beef !.

greenpaper55
22-08-2014, 11:52 AM
Try this link

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/28895855

Mikey
22-08-2014, 11:53 AM
Apologies if I've added a dud link.

Admin - can this be a sticky?

Link fixed.

To be honest, we've found that people don't pay any extra attention to stuck threads. It would be better just to bump it up the board every so often.

Mikey
22-08-2014, 11:53 AM
Spam


Corned beef !.

C'mon folks, let's leave the important threads alone.

NW
22-08-2014, 11:57 AM
Link fixed.

To be honest, we've found that people don't pay any extra attention to stuck threads. It would be better just to bump it up the board every so often.

Thanks mikey

Brightside
22-08-2014, 11:57 AM
C'mon folks, let's leave the important threads alone.

But it is SPAM...since when are people allowed Company Advertising?

Mikey
22-08-2014, 12:05 PM
But it is SPAM...since when are people allowed Company Advertising?

It's part of the consultation process. Whether you agree with how it's done is up to you but people will want to have a look and discuss it.

Having got to this stage it might be worth NW letting us know who he is and what his part in it all is though!

marinello59
22-08-2014, 12:07 PM
The next step in the process is to get as many fans to give some feedback to the independent Supporters Direct to allow any plans to be fan driven

http://www.scottishfans.org/Hibs/

Would you care to provide a bit of transparency by declaring what your role is in any group involved in a potential takeover given that you have been talking down the value of the club at every opportunity, drip feeding information and also criticising Leeann Dempsters record in recent days, apparently in the interests of 'balance.'
Also, who is the group who asked supporters direct to get involved? I don't know what process you are talking about without knowing that information. We all want what is best for the club but if it's a fan lead future then surely we need people to be upfront with us right from the start.

NW
22-08-2014, 12:11 PM
It's part of the consultation process. Whether you agree with how it's done is up to you but people will want to have a look and discuss it.

Having got to this stage it might be worth NW letting us know who he is and what his part in it all is though!

I have not mentioned any business of mine and I have no businesses who are involved.
I am an independent fan who contact SDS some months ago , I have since been working behind the scenes trying to unite as many groups as possible and then drive a fans engagement for the fans but done by SDS.

Depending what the feedback is , depends where we go from then and ideally we are keen to run workshops etc to get the experts to provided info and education to fans

Lago
22-08-2014, 12:24 PM
So yet another group of interested people, no names, led by Paul Goodwin, who is he, trying to fascilitate a hibs take over.
1) We now have the Low group, offer made, offer rejected.
2) The Paul Kane group, offer made, offer rejected.
3) The Goodwin, SDS, group, someone maybe able to enlighten me as to who & what they are.

All in all this rumbling on is doing nothing for stability at hibs just now.

NW
22-08-2014, 12:27 PM
Read the news article. Any group that I am aware of apart from the David Low group are pulling in and working with this SDS backed consultation.

Lago
22-08-2014, 12:41 PM
Read the news Goodwinarticle. Any group that I am aware of apart from the David Low group are pulling in and working with this SDS backed consultation.
Again who constitues SDS ? Who Is Goodwin, new name to me. Have read the article and it is light on detail.

ScottB
22-08-2014, 12:42 PM
I'm not convinced that the Hearts model can be labelled as a success yet, as the supporters money hasn't really done much / anything yet?

It was Budge's money that bought the club, it remains to be seen whether their fans will carry on with their direct debits in the long term, which is the only way that such a scheme can be judged a success.


It strikes me as far too volatile a model, all it takes is a bad season, an unpopular manager, an embarrassing result and these payment contributions could drop noticeably. At the least you'd need a person with cash to back the whole thing up, a la Budge over the road. I'm all for supporters owning shares, and the current 'Manager's Fund' seems a good way for fans who want to contribute over and above attending games, but the idea of funding the club primarily on a source of income as potentially fickle as a large group of fans seems worrying to me...

Keith_M
22-08-2014, 12:50 PM
So yet another group of interested people, no names, led by Paul Goodwin, who is he, trying to fascilitate a hibs take over.
1) We now have the Low group, offer made, offer rejected.
2) The Paul Kane group, offer made, offer rejected.
3) The Goodwin, SDS, group, someone maybe able to enlighten me as to who & what they are.

All in all this rumbling on is doing nothing for stability at hibs just now.


Lots of Fans have said they think we need regime change at Hibs. The fact that STF is already 73 means it will have to have happen reasonably soon. We've also had complaints about Petrie and the desire for a clean slate, which isn't going to happen while STF is still in charge. In the main, there appears to be a desire for some form of Supporter Engagement in the ownership of the club.

So the desire is there.

Also, many posters have complained about the lack of transparency in what is happening within bids and also about lack of engagement with Fans. As I see it, this group now appears to be attempting to tackle these issues.

Surely that's to be welcomed, not complained about? Or are we as a group of Suppprters just going to complain either way? The phrase 'damned if they do, damned if they don't' springs to mind.

marinello59
22-08-2014, 12:56 PM
Lots of Fans have said they think we need regime change at Hibs. The fact that STF is already 73 means it will have to have happen reasonably soon. We've also had complaints about Petrie and the desire for a clean slate, which isn't going to happen while STF is still in charge. In the main, there appears to be a desire for some form of Supporter Engagement in the ownership of the club.

So the desire is there.

Also, many posters have complained about the lack of transparency in what is happening within bids and also about lack of engagement with Fans. As I see it, this group now appears to be attempting to tackle these issues.

Surely that's to be welcomed, not complained about? Or are we as a group of Suppprters just going to complain either way? The phrase 'damned if they do, damned if they don't' springs to mind.

I agree. So who are the people involved in setting up this consultation?

cabbageandribs1875
22-08-2014, 01:00 PM
i reckon we must have the most fans groups in world football :greengrin

Brightside
22-08-2014, 01:05 PM
I agree. So who are the people involved in setting up this consultation?

Spot on.

ekhibee
22-08-2014, 01:14 PM
Well I've filled out the form, hope others do too, whether you agree with it or not.

Keith_M
22-08-2014, 01:17 PM
I agree. So who are the people involved in setting up this consultation?


You could always ask the guy promoting it on here.

Lago
22-08-2014, 01:19 PM
Lots of Fans have said they think we need regime change at Hibs. The fact that STF is already 73 means it will have to have happen reasonably soon. We've also had complaints about Petrie and the desire for a clean slate, which isn't going to happen while STF is still in charge. In the main, there appears to be a desire for some form of Supporter Engagement in the ownership of the club.

So the desire is there.

Also, many posters have complained about the lack of transparency in what is happening within bids and also about lack of engagement with Fans. As I see it, this group now appears to be attempting to tackle these issues.

Surely that's to be welcomed, not complained about? Or are we as a group of Suppprters just going to complain either way? The phrase 'damned if they do, damned if they don't' springs to mind.
Let me assure you I am not complaining. You speak of the need for transparency, I agree, however here we have yet another opague group promising transparency.
As I said we now have 3 groups promising (?) to take over hibs from STF there has been plenty of time for the first two to engage with the fans, but nothing.

marinello59
22-08-2014, 01:23 PM
You could always ask the guy promoting it on here.

I have. He simply ignored the question.

Pete
22-08-2014, 01:27 PM
You could always ask the guy promoting it on here.

I think he already has.

I'm starting to lose track to be honest with all this takeover stuff. Personally, I just want to watch a football team, not own a club.

RIP
22-08-2014, 01:30 PM
Supporters Direct have been involved with Hibs for 2 years. They came to a LWT meeting in January 2013 and when the Big Issues group ran Green Views the results were shared with Supporters Direct.

There has been extensive WT/SD consultation on Kick Off times and we had a dozen or so Hibbies up in Stirling for their conference in June. It was an informative day especially meeting other fans from North and South of the Border. Club management were also in attendance.

We heard at the last WT meeting that Big Issues team are proposing to invite SD to another meeting by way of follow up. I can't see anything happening very quickly on the ownership front so maybe information and discussion will do for now, while we wait for more signings to arrive?

bingo70
22-08-2014, 02:03 PM
Completed the survey but was surprised it never asked how much I'd be willing to contribute.

Surely how much people would be willing to contribute is hugely relevant?

marinello59
22-08-2014, 02:16 PM
Supporters Direct have been involved with Hibs for 2 years. They came to a LWT meeting in January 2013 and when the Big Issues group ran Green Views the results were shared with Supporters Direct.

There has been extensive WT/SD consultation on Kick Off times and we had a dozen or so Hibbies up in Stirling for their conference in June. It was an informative day especially meeting other fans from North and South of the Border. Club management were also in attendance.

We heard at the last WT meeting that Big Issues team are proposing to invite SD to another meeting by way of follow up. I can't see anything happening very quickly on the ownership front so maybe information and discussion will do for now, while we wait for more signings to arrive?

So is this' embryonic group' planning to take over Hibs actually an offshoot of LWT then?

jdships
22-08-2014, 02:22 PM
So is this' embryonic group' planning to take over Hibs actually an offshoot of LWT then?

Ah ! That is the $64000 dollar question! Who will come up with an answer that isn't just " spin" ? :rolleyes:
As Colombo used to say " Just give us the facts.ma'am ! "

:confused:

Golden Bear
22-08-2014, 02:29 PM
At least "Supporters Direct" have provided some insight into what exactly Community Ownership means and what it entails. I've been asking the same question on this Messageboard for weeks and it seems as though no one was willing or capable of providing an answer.

Having said that, I still can't say I'm sold on the concept.

http://www.supporters-direct.org/homepage/what-we-do/community-ownership

down-the-slope
22-08-2014, 02:54 PM
So is this' embryonic group' planning to take over Hibs actually an offshoot of LWT then?


You will like this simple clear answer....NO :greengrin


LWT is a partnership of management / board / supporters - so it would not make sense

Lago
22-08-2014, 03:02 PM
You will like this simple clear answer...NO :greengrin


LWT is a partnership of management / board / supporters - so it would not make sense

Frankly none of this making sense, the more I hear/read the less clear It becomes. The phrase with mud in it comes to mind.

marinello59
22-08-2014, 03:07 PM
You will like this simple clear answer....NO :greengrin


LWT is a partnership of management / board / supporters - so it would not make sense

Thanks.:greengrin

Beefster
22-08-2014, 03:13 PM
I'm thoroughly fed up of all the secret squirrel pish.

Someone just come the **** out and take responsibility.

SunshineOnLeith
22-08-2014, 03:19 PM
That was quick and easy. Lots of Nos.

BroxburnHibee
22-08-2014, 03:53 PM
Load of p**h in my opinion.

As already been said - fan/community ownership is a terrible business plan. Fans are too fickle to provide a stable/constant stream of cash.

bingo70
22-08-2014, 03:58 PM
Load of p**h in my opinion.

As already been said - fan/community ownership is a terrible business plan. Fans are too fickle to provide a stable/constant stream of cash.

That's what happens now, fan ownership would just be an additional source of income.

We don't get a stable or constant stream of cash from farmer.

down-the-slope
22-08-2014, 04:04 PM
I'm thoroughly fed up of all the secret squirrel pish.

Someone just come the **** out and take responsibility.


:tee hee: how certain things age you........I bet that will pass many many by.....

13327

marinello59
22-08-2014, 04:18 PM
At least "Supporters Direct" have provided some insight into what exactly Community Ownership means and what it entails. I've been asking the same question on this Messageboard for weeks and it seems as though no one was willing or capable of providing an answer.

Having said that, I still can't say I'm sold on the concept.

http://www.supporters-direct.org/homepage/what-we-do/community-ownership

To be fair that sounds like the ownership model that Paul Kane has been working towards. I reckon that has some merit but I am not so sure how practical it actually is for a club like ours. I reckon the least we can do is fill out the survey though.

Pretty Boy
22-08-2014, 04:49 PM
I'm thoroughly fed up of all the secret squirrel pish.

Someone just come the **** out and take responsibility.

Absolutely this.

All this cloak and dagger nonsense is draining my enthusiasm for any bid.

RIP
22-08-2014, 04:56 PM
Supporters Direct have been involved with Hibs for 2 years. They came to a LWT meeting in January 2013 and when the Big Issues group ran Green Views the results were shared with Supporters Direct.

There has been extensive WT/SD consultation on Kick Off times and we had a dozen or so Hibbies up in Stirling for their conference in June. It was an informative day especially meeting other fans from North and South of the Border. Club management were also in attendance.

We heard at the last WT meeting that Big Issues team are proposing to invite SD to another meeting by way of follow up. I can't see anything happening very quickly on the ownership front so maybe information and discussion will do for now, while we wait for more signings to arrive?


So is this' embryonic group' planning to take over Hibs actually an offshoot of LWT then?

If that's what you are asking then I clearly need to phrase it differently

I guess what I'm saying is that Supporters Direct are consultants to lots of clubs and groups in the Scottish game. As far as I know they don't turn people away if they seek advice. As DTS states LWT was launched by the club as a partnership between board, management and supporters (individuals & groups). For the last two years it has acted as the primary source of consultation between all the parties that make up the Hibs family. Personally I see no reason why all consultation could not flow through that channel. But people have to make their own call on that it's not down to me or anyone else to say what a group of supporters can and can't do.

We have to accept that a Bid Group is unlike any existing group within the Hibs family. Some bids, it would appear. actually come from individuals outwith that family. Finding a place for these new organisations within the existing Working Together Partnership doesn't appear to be appropriate right now. (don't know what other folk think). In any case, inviting them to present their case at a meeting would need the approval of all parties including board and management. As DTS says I'm not sure that's realistic at the moment.

So in terms of assistance in the crucial area of supporter consultation I'm not sure we should blame these groups for seeking independent help. Who else were they going to turn to? I'm a member of the Hibs Supporters Association and if the Trustees are going to come out with statements on our behalf, in my opinion they are duty bound to undergo a proper consultation process first. They have been criticized in the past for acting without a mandate. Another case of dammed if they do, dammed if they don't?

ancient hibee
22-08-2014, 05:10 PM
I'm one of these supporters who are immediately turned off when they see "Hibs supporters want etc".If it's "some Hibs supporters want"that's fine.The desire to speak on somebody's behalf without actually having that right is very prevalent nowadays."Hibs supporters want"ranks equal with "the people of Scotland"for inaccuracy.

WhileTheChief..
22-08-2014, 05:31 PM
Complete non starter and total waste of time and energy. SDS can go do one.

weecounty hibby
22-08-2014, 05:37 PM
So what do the people at SD gain. Who pays these guys or are they just football fans who do this stuff in their spare time? It is amazing that when clubs are struggling badly there seems to be an almost endless supply of folk who want to buy Hibs. We need to be gety very careful who actually does end up controlling the club

Alfred E Newman
22-08-2014, 05:47 PM
It's the road to nowhere. Thumbs down from me.

bingo70
22-08-2014, 06:09 PM
So what do the people at SD gain. Who pays these guys or are they just football fans who do this stuff in their spare time? It is amazing that when clubs are struggling badly there seems to be an almost endless supply of folk who want to buy Hibs. We need to be gety very careful who actually does end up controlling the club

Aye I know we might end up with owners that take us down to the first division.

Is it not this group that are government backed?

Leithenhibby
22-08-2014, 06:11 PM
Aye I know we might end up with owners that take us down to the first division.

Is it not this group that are government backed?

:agree:

lucky
22-08-2014, 06:25 PM
I'm happy to support a fan buy out but not if it is only for part of the club.

Jonnyboy
22-08-2014, 07:23 PM
I'm thoroughly fed up of all the secret squirrel pish.

Someone just come the **** out and take responsibility.

This


:tee hee: how certain things age you........I bet that will pass many many by.....

13327

But will it bypass Bill and Ben, I wonder? :greengrin

down-the-slope
22-08-2014, 07:35 PM
Complete non starter and total waste of time and energy. SDS can go do one.

Strange comment :rolleyes:

Publicly funded organisation asked to provide advice and support - one of its remits - apparently is doing so in response to requests.....why should they 'do one'.... :confused:

down-the-slope
22-08-2014, 07:47 PM
This



But will it bypass Bill and Ben, I wonder? :greengrin

Who :confused:














































:wink: Flub a dub a dub

Leithenhibby
22-08-2014, 07:47 PM
Strange comment :rolleyes:

Publicly funded organisation asked to provide advice and support - one of its remits - apparently is doing so in response to requests.....why should they 'do one'.... :confused:

Interesting point...........

Jonnyboy
22-08-2014, 07:48 PM
Who :confused:



:wink: Flub a dub a dub

:greengrin

SunshineOnLeith
22-08-2014, 07:52 PM
I'm one of these supporters who are immediately turned off when they see "Hibs supporters want etc".If it's "some Hibs supporters want"that's fine.The desire to speak on somebody's behalf without actually having that right is very prevalent nowadays."Hibs supporters want"ranks equal with "the people of Scotland"for inaccuracy.

Reminds me a bit of a unanimous show of hands at the Petrie Out protest being used to say "Hibs fans want change etc". 100% of people who attended a protest demanding change are in favour of change, quelle surprise! :rolleyes:

For me, you'd need to ballot all season ticket holders to have any basis for claiming a mandate to speak for the whole support. I say that as a non-season ticket holder, but would be willing to bow to them as a representative group of the whole support.

Ozyhibby
22-08-2014, 08:01 PM
It's a no brainer for me. Fan ownership is the way forward.

weecounty hibby
22-08-2014, 08:18 PM
It's a no brainer for me. Fan ownership is the way forward.

Can you please lay out your plans for this. I don't think that it is a no brainer there are examples of fan ownership in this country that don't seem to be working too well. The Well fans didn't take to it. Hearts is still very much at the early stages and cant really be classed as fan ownership yet. I think that there is some infighting at Falkirk regarding the fans representative on the board.
What if whoever ends up as the fans rep on ER board does something you disagree with, does that mean you would no longer support him/her.
I actually think that we have a structure in place now that will work. STF and Petrie need to go but not to just anyone and also IMO to the fans. We cant agree amongst ourselves who should be captain, is Nelson pish or average, is Lewis a leftback/midfielder or just plain old crap. How would we manage to tun a football club.

RIP
22-08-2014, 09:09 PM
It's a no brainer for me. Fan ownership is the way forward

Is fan ownership anything new? Surely scottish clubs have been owned by their fans for over a century!

The only exceptions I can think of are Green, Romanov, Massone. On the other extreme there is our own benefactor.

Can anyone name a successful club not owned or run by its fans? League or Cup?

Jack
22-08-2014, 10:05 PM
Supporters Direct have been involved with Hibs for 2 years. They came to a LWT meeting in January 2013 and when the Big Issues group ran Green Views the results were shared with Supporters Direct.

There has been extensive WT/SD consultation on Kick Off times and we had a dozen or so Hibbies up in Stirling for their conference in June. It was an informative day especially meeting other fans from North and South of the Border. Club management were also in attendance.

We heard at the last WT meeting that Big Issues team are proposing to invite SD to another meeting by way of follow up. I can't see anything happening very quickly on the ownership front so maybe information and discussion will do for now, while we wait for more signings to arrive?

So who has commissioned, or asked, SDS to do this survey? The answers to the questions asked will be a very powerful asset for someone, possibly determining the future of our club.

And for anyone interested Working Together has not asked SDS to do the survey and none of its constitute parts have said it would be doing so - as far as I am aware.

Given the power of the information, any information in the circumstance of the takeover of my club I won't be taking part in any survey until I know who is behind it.

green day
22-08-2014, 11:01 PM
So who has commissioned, or asked, SDS to do this survey? The answers to the questions asked will be a very powerful asset for someone, possibly determining the future of our club.

And for anyone interested Working Together has not asked SDS to do the survey and none of its constitute parts have said it would be doing so - as far as I am aware.

Given the power of the information, any information in the circumstance of the takeover of my club I won't be taking part in any survey until I know who is behind it.

Agreed Jack.

Is this the same supporters direct that was touted for Hearts..........right up until Anne Budge bought them?

I know the "supporters" are going to buy them......but in fact they are no more supporter owned than we are.

WhileTheChief..
22-08-2014, 11:07 PM
Strange comment :rolleyes:

Publicly funded organisation asked to provide advice and support - one of its remits - apparently is doing so in response to requests.....why should they 'do one'.... :confused:

Yeah, maybe a bit strong in hindsight, i just don't want them poking their nose in.

This whole ownership thing just feels like a complete waste of time. Seems like a few groups want to own our club but want the us to pay for it. Sound familiar??

The one thing I do trust STF with is to do the right thing when it comes to selling the club on. If a new owner wants to buy the club they can go make an offer with their own real cash. All the rest is posturing and I hate it when folk think they are talking on behalf of all Hibs fans. That's bull.

RIP
23-08-2014, 05:45 AM
So who has commissioned, or asked, SDS to do this survey? The answers to the questions asked will be a very powerful asset for someone, possibly determining the future of our club.

And for anyone interested Working Together has not asked SDS to do the survey and none of its constitute parts have said it would be doing so - as far as I am aware.

Given the power of the information, any information in the circumstance of the takeover of my club I won't be taking part in any survey until I know who is behind it.

Thanks Jack. Down the Slope and I have already stated that the WT Partnership is not involved but no harm in reiterating that.

DTS and the Big Issues team ran Green Views, the last Hibs supporters consultation 18 months ago which covered a wide range of topics. The results were shared with club management. No questions were asked about ownership.

I'm pleased there's going to be a survey though. Other than a Petrie Out meeting at the Hibs Club (that I was not at) I've not heard any evidence of supporter backing for a change in ownership.

Golden Bear
23-08-2014, 05:58 AM
Yeah, maybe a bit strong in hindsight, i just don't want them poking their nose in.

This whole ownership thing just feels like a complete waste of time. Seems like a few groups want to own our club but want the us to pay for it. Sound familiar??

The one thing I do trust STF with is to do the right thing when it comes to selling the club on. If a new owner wants to buy the club they can go make an offer with their own real cash. All the rest is posturing and I hate it when folk think they are talking on behalf of all Hibs fans. That's bull.

:agree:

Well said!

s.a.m
23-08-2014, 06:38 AM
Is fan ownership anything new? Surely scottish clubs have been owned by their fans for over a century!

The only exceptions I can think of are Green, Romanov, Massone. On the other extreme there is our own benefactor.

Can anyone name a successful club not owned or run by its fans? League or Cup?

I'm very probably missing the point here, but which successful Scottish clubs are owned by the fans?:confused: Celtic have a majority fan ownership, but are also the current biggest club in Scotland by some distance, so it's hard to compare.

Former Rangers: not fan owned (Murray prior to Green, and various others before that.
Celtic: mixed, with majority fan shareholders
Aberdeen: Stewart Milne / Aberdeen Asset Management (?)
Dundee Utd: Stephen Thompson majority shareholder (prev. Jim McLean)
Motherwell: Still John Boyle (I think), though he's trying to give it away.
St Johnstone: The Brown family?

I like the idea of community ownership in principle. In practice, I'm sceptical about how it would work (successfully) in Scotland.

stokesmessiah
23-08-2014, 06:53 AM
I really do despair sometimes on this board and with Hibs fans in general. For god know how long now people have been moaning about the current model and setup at Hibs. Subsequently a few groups have come forward and expressed an interest in the club, now whilst i understand people are keen to safegurd the future of our club, the general attitude of people is horrendous. I have lost count of the amount of posts i have heard moaning because they dont know everything about everyone that may or may not be involved, the way a statement is worded, someones attitude, someones background, the list is endless. Can we not just hear people out and see what options are on the table without all the lame bickering and crap that goes with it?

RIP
23-08-2014, 06:56 AM
I'm very probably missing the point here, but which successful Scottish clubs are owned by the fans?:confused: Celtic have a majority fan ownership, but are also the current biggest club in Scotland by some distance, so it's hard to compare.

Former Rangers: not fan owned (Murray prior to Green, and various others before that.
Celtic: mixed, with majority fan shareholders
Aberdeen: Stewart Milne / Aberdeen Asset Management (?)
Dundee Utd: Stephen Thompson majority shareholder (prev. Jim McLean)
Motherwell: Still John Boyle (I think), though he's trying to give it away.
St Johnstone: The Brown family?

I like the idea of community ownership in principle. In practice, I'm sceptical about how it would work (successfully) in Scotland.

Thomson and Brown and their directors are are all life-long fans. Many of their directors have been involved in local football as players. St Johnstone are a good working model of a club integrated with it's community and local business.

At Dundee United the Arab trust has the third biggest shareholding. One of their directors is a founder of the Arab Trust and former Director of Supporters Direct Scotland. Another director currently represents the Arab Trust. The Trust do loads of work in their community

In the past Hibs have been run with principal shareholder, board, management, community foundation and supporters groups all operating separately. The Working Together Partnership aims to bring all these disparate elements together and has allowed us the opportunity to start building a more unified club.

The arrival of Leeann Dempster gives us the chance to start discussing the type of club we want to have in the future. Leeann has already identified that the club is too corporate and the foundation needs to be integrated into the club. Those of us that have met her are convinced that she will make great strides in this area this season working in partnership with LWT Inclusion, volunteer and community organisations. She reckons Hibs have become too corporate - and who would disagree with her view? She wants us to get back to being a football club again. Amen to that.

So although there is a lot of consultation kicking off at the moment I can't see what harm it is doing - provided all parties work together on the vision for Hibernian Football Club instead of pursuing their own agendas.

weecounty hibby
23-08-2014, 06:59 AM
I really do despair sometimes on this board and with Hibs fans in general. For god know how long now people have been moaning about the current model and setup at Hibs. Subsequently a few groups have come forward and expressed an interest in the club, now whilst i understand people are keen to safegurd the future of our club, the general attitude of people is horrendous. I have lost count of the amount of posts i have heard moaning because they dont know everything about everyone that may or may not be involved, the way a statement is worded, someones attitude, someones background, the list is endless. Can we not just hear people out and see what options are on the table without all the lame bickering and crap that goes with it?
Good point but no options have really been put on the table. As far as Im aware none of these groups has actually told us how they plan to run the club. I want to own and run Hibs too. I cant actually afford it and I font have a business plan but does that now make me another potential group in the running? Not getting at you just a bit frustrated by the whole thing

Jack
23-08-2014, 08:01 AM
Thomson and Brown and their directors are are all life-long fans. Many of their directors have been involved in local football as players. St Johnstone are a good working model of a club integrated with it's community and local business.

At Dundee United the Arab trust has the third biggest shareholding. One of their directors is a founder of the Arab Trust and former Director of Supporters Direct Scotland. Another director currently represents the Arab Trust. The Trust do loads of work in their community

In the past Hibs have been run with principal shareholder, board, management, community foundation and supporters groups all operating separately. The Working Together Partnership aims to bring all these disparate elements together and has allowed us the opportunity to start building a more unified club.

The arrival of Leeann Dempster gives us the chance to start discussing the type of club we want to have in the future. Leeann has already identified that the club is too corporate and the foundation needs to be integrated into the club. Those of us that have met her are convinced that she will make great strides in this area this season working in partnership with LWT Inclusion, volunteer and community organisations. She reckons Hibs have become too corporate - and who would disagree with her view? She wants us to get back to being a football club again. Amen to that.

So although there is a lot of consultation kicking off at the moment I can't see what harm it is doing - provided all parties work together on the vision for Hibernian Football Club instead of pursuing their own agendas.

So who is behind the SDS consultation?

If it was Hibs it would have the Hibs crest on it and endorsed on the fishy site. It doesn't and isn't.

It also doesn't look to have the Kano, Forever Hibernian, stamp of approval on it.

So if its not Hibs, or Working Together, or Forever Hibernian, then without knowing who is behind it or what their motives are this survey really is dubious to the extent that folk should be discouraged from completing it.

I have no doubt SDS are a decent, genuine lot. I think they may well have been hoodwinked into putting up this survey.

Edit: with the groups above excluded that only leaves the celtc mindit bid of Low behind this survey, or others unknown.

Pretty Boy
23-08-2014, 08:39 AM
I really do despair sometimes on this board and with Hibs fans in general. For god know how long now people have been moaning about the current model and setup at Hibs. Subsequently a few groups have come forward and expressed an interest in the club, now whilst i understand people are keen to safegurd the future of our club, the general attitude of people is horrendous. I have lost count of the amount of posts i have heard moaning because they dont know everything about everyone that may or may not be involved, the way a statement is worded, someones attitude, someones background, the list is endless. Can we not just hear people out and see what options are on the table without all the lame bickering and crap that goes with it?

It's not a case of not knowing everything. We know almost nothing.

Keith_M
23-08-2014, 08:53 AM
It's a no brainer for me. Fan ownership is the way forward.


I don't think it's that simple.

I'd like to see partial Fan Ownership, having a percentage of the Shares in the Club owned by the Fans. This would have a few benefits but the biggest would be to stop dodgy owners ever buying the Club and forcing through votes at shareholders meetings irrespective of the fans viewpoint (e.g. to sell ER)

That doesn't mean, though, that there isn't a place for Hibs Supporting businessmen holding a percentage of the Shares as well.

Caversham Green
23-08-2014, 09:59 AM
At least "Supporters Direct" have provided some insight into what exactly Community Ownership means and what it entails. I've been asking the same question on this Messageboard for weeks and it seems as though no one was willing or capable of providing an answer.

Having said that, I still can't say I'm sold on the concept.

http://www.supporters-direct.org/homepage/what-we-do/community-ownership

One aspect of the full community ownership model (as I understand it) is that it skews democracy in some respects. The model appears to be that an entity representing a group of fans owns 51% of the club, presumably the remaining 49% is owned by individuals. Using simple majorities the actions of the fans' entity can be decided by just over half of its members and that entity will always win a club shareholders' vote, therefore around 26% of interested parties can carry a vote over the other 74%.

As with the 'Petrie still pulling the strings' chat in practice it's unlikely to be as sinister as it might sound, but democracy it ain't.

Caversham Green
23-08-2014, 10:00 AM
I don't think it's that simple.

I'd like to see partial Fan Ownership, having a percentage of the Shares in the Club owned by the Fans. This would have a few benefits but the biggest would be to stop dodgy owners ever buying the Club and forcing through votes at shareholders meetings irrespective of the fans viewpoint (e.g. to sell ER)

That doesn't mean, though, that there isn't a place for Hibs Supporting businessmen holding a percentage of the Shares as well.

That could be achieved by converting the club to a community interest company.

NW
23-08-2014, 06:30 PM
That could be achieved by converting the club to a community interest company.

CG that's the type of feedback that will really benefit the survey

down-the-slope
23-08-2014, 07:26 PM
That could be achieved by converting the club to a community interest company.

:agree: indeed .... one of the biggest benefits of a CIC are the asset lock and the limitations on shareholder dividend

would be by far the best legal entity for the future

NW
23-08-2014, 07:32 PM
:agree: indeed .... one of the biggest benefits of a CIC are the asset lock and the limitations on shareholder dividend

would be by far the best legal entity for the future

And that is part of the education pieces planned by supporters direct using examples and experiences IF their proves to be an appetite to look into it.

marinello59
23-08-2014, 07:48 PM
And that is part of the education pieces planned by supporters direct using examples and experiences IF their proves to be an appetite to look into it.

One question that did jump out at me was the one about learning from other clubs experiences. At the very least it would help fans make an informed decision .

NW
23-08-2014, 07:51 PM
One question that did jump out at me was the one about learning from other clubs experiences. At the very least it would help fans make an informed decision .

My personal thinking is that if their is appetite to look at it we can get other clubs to explain more to us, this can then be digested and considered if right and appropriate to us.

Leithenhibby
23-08-2014, 09:32 PM
:agree: indeed .... one of the biggest benefits of a CIC are the asset lock and the limitations on shareholder dividend

would be by far the best legal entity for the future

Very interesting point, are you in a position to explain more?

NW
23-08-2014, 09:36 PM
CIC is the model favoured by many clubs changing ownership to fan / community

To set up a CIC, you need to apply to Companies House, and:

include a ‘community interest statement’, explaining what your business plans to do
create an ‘asset lock’- a legal promise stating that the company’s assets will only be used for its social objectives, and setting limits to the money it can pay to shareholders

RIP
23-08-2014, 09:56 PM
One question that did jump out at me was the one about learning from other clubs experiences. At the very least it would help fans make an informed decision .

This

I was one of a large group of Hibbies who attended the recent Supporters Direct conference. I was only there substituting for DTS as our WT Big Issues group were running a workshop on TV kick off tines.

Coming away from the event and having spoken to supporters from other clubs I've realised no two clubs have the same ownership model. If things are to change at our club we need to look at these different structures and make up our minds which one is right for us

down-the-slope
23-08-2014, 10:05 PM
Very interesting point, are you in a position to explain more?

In a previous life I ran social enterprises.....the organisation was involved in the consultations that ended up with the new new legal entity that are CIC's

http://www.cicassociation.org.uk/

look here for further info :aok:

marinello59
24-08-2014, 10:30 AM
Bump.

RIP
24-08-2014, 05:24 PM
That's me finally got round to completing the survey. 2 minute job.

Bostonhibby
24-08-2014, 05:28 PM
Done

Pretty Boy
24-08-2014, 05:29 PM
Done the survey.

Takes about a minute.

NW
25-08-2014, 12:50 PM
Bump

Dave-O
25-08-2014, 02:10 PM
Done.

Greenblood70
25-08-2014, 02:23 PM
That's another done

Jonnyboy
25-08-2014, 05:53 PM
Done, as a result of which, I'm the new Chairman so can I be the first to say "Campbell OUT" :greengrin

NW
25-08-2014, 05:56 PM
Done, as a result of which, I'm the new Chairman so can I be the first to say "Campbell OUT" :greengrin

If you make any banners you can get yourself ejected and job done

Jonnyboy
25-08-2014, 06:15 PM
If you make any banners you can get yourself ejected and job done

Working on one as I type :greengrin

RIP
25-08-2014, 10:22 PM
Looks like the chair of the last 2 Working Together meetings has been entrusted with chairing the sessions at Easter Road next week.

This can only be good news. We need unity now when our backs are against the wall. Notwithstanding the most urgent priority is a winning team on the park we need a simple shared vision for the club.

Only then will we really start 'working together'.

Gerard
26-08-2014, 12:46 AM
Looks like the chair of the last 2 Working Together meetings has been entrusted with chairing the sessions at Easter Road next week.

This can only be good news. We need unity now when our backs are against the wall. Notwithstanding the most urgent priority is a winning team on the park we need a simple shared vision for the club.

Only then will we really start 'working together'.

The taking of a lot of small steps add up to bigger ones. The WT journey is such a process and I am many others are a part of that process. OUR CLUB needs us to be united and sharing such a simple vision for OUR CLUB.:wink:

NW
26-08-2014, 11:23 AM
The taking of a lot of small steps add up to bigger ones. The WT journey is such a process and I am many others are a part of that process. OUR CLUB needs us to be united and sharing such a simple vision for OUR CLUB.:wink:

Bump

Keith_M
26-08-2014, 11:45 AM
I've done the survey.

Would be nice if they could get as many people filling it in as possible, as any potential takeover needs the viewpoint of the fans and how they would be willing to participate.

NW
27-08-2014, 10:59 PM
Bump

marinello59
31-08-2014, 03:53 PM
A wee bump for this again.
You may not agree with fan ownership and you may be suspicious of who is behind this but IMHO it is still worth while filling this in if you haven't done so already.

rcarter1
31-08-2014, 05:18 PM
Filled out, look forward to hearing where this goes.

Sammy7nil
01-09-2014, 11:47 AM
Who is going along tonight ?

marinello59
02-09-2014, 10:51 AM
Bump.
If you haven't filled this in already then the non-events of last night may have persuaded you to do so.

Jonnyboy
02-09-2014, 03:03 PM
Bump.
If you haven't filled this in already then the non-events of last night may have persuaded you to do so.

J, last night was hardly a non-event. I was there and found it informative, interesting and worthwhile!

Incidentally, despite the suggestion by some on here that LD did her level best to scupper SDS, she actively encouraged all present to complete the survey. Doesn't sound like a scuppering attempt to me :greengrin

marinello59
02-09-2014, 03:33 PM
J, last night was hardly a non-event. I was there and found it informative, interesting and worthwhile!

Incidentally, despite the suggestion by some on here that LD did her level best to scupper SDS, she actively encouraged all present to complete the survey. Doesn't sound like a scuppering attempt to me :greengrin

I meant the lack of activity in the transfer window, the meeting wasn't in my mind at all when I typed that. I just wanted to provide a reason for bumping this back up :greengrin
Interesting that LD was encouraging people to fill out the survey, makes the comments of some even more bizarre.

jacomo
02-09-2014, 03:40 PM
I meant the lack of activity in the transfer window, the meeting wasn't in my mind at all when I typed that. I just wanted to provide a reason for bumping this back up :greengrin
Interesting that LD was encouraging people to fill out the survey, makes the comments of some even more bizarre.

Did you honestly expect our CEO to be focused on the transfer window when there's a working party to be set up to look at potential models for a longer term change in supporter ownership and involvement?

Leaders like LD don't get to where they are by getting their priorities wrong you know. :rolleyes:

Jack
03-09-2014, 06:06 AM
I meant the lack of activity in the transfer window, the meeting wasn't in my mind at all when I typed that. I just wanted to provide a reason for bumping this back up :greengrin
Interesting that LD was encouraging people to fill out the survey, makes the comments of some even more bizarre.

Leeann mentioned it again last night; urging supporters to complete the survey adding she will be interested in seeing the results.

NW
03-09-2014, 08:18 AM
I meant the lack of activity in the transfer window, the meeting wasn't in my mind at all when I typed that. I just wanted to provide a reason for bumping this back up :greengrin
Interesting that LD was encouraging people to fill out the survey, makes the comments of some even more bizarre.

I agree and I am grateful that LD is doing so, she was advised at the outset that the club would be walked through the results. This is hoping to be a positive step for Hibs. It was the initial reaction and aggression shown that was unacceptable, but thank you LD for encouraging

IanM
03-09-2014, 08:20 AM
Anyone got a link to the survey? Had it on an email I can't find!

NW
03-09-2014, 08:22 AM
Anyone got a link to the survey? Had it on an email I can't find!

Www.scottishfans.org/Hibs

Leithenhibby
03-09-2014, 08:54 AM
This survey will achieve nothing IMO, and was rushed through to get it out before HFC did their own consultation and survey. :agree:

marinello59
04-09-2014, 06:39 AM
Bump.
After another nights fan consultation there may be more of you wanting to fill this in.

IanM
04-09-2014, 03:39 PM
@PaulGoodwin3: Over 2500 Hibs fans now giving thier views http://t.co/sbe2LCnfGt don't miss out. Thanks to the Jambos for the funny comments too!

matty_f
04-09-2014, 05:57 PM
Done. Personally I'm put off the whole thing with some of the behaviours of potential buyers etc, but it's important fans take the opportunity to have their say.

oregonhibby
05-09-2014, 06:13 AM
Done. Personally I'm put off the whole thing with some of the behaviours of potential buyers etc, but it's important fans take the opportunity to have their say.

The problem with hostile takeover attempts is that they polarise opinion and everyone is damaged. Paul Kane is correct in saying that now is the time to make a meaningful change for the best. However, the options out there have not been clear on detail. Forget the NDA - if there is one - that covers the detail of the bid and any commercial information supplied by both parties. All bidders can be clear on their financial depth and their intentions. If this is to be played out in public then be clear on the plan for the club, it's assets and the security mechanisms, together with the financial clout available to the Club post any successful sale to ensure this is not an opportunistic development play or a pie in the sky bid that leaves the club in a perilous position going forward. The details of the financial elements of the bid can remain confidential.

Sentiment will change with detail. Playing to the audience is dangerous because if successful in obtaining the club the same audience will quickly turn if it all goes wrong.

Things are at a low ebb at the moment but at least the changes made look sensible and LD is doing the right things. The neighbours are doing the same but they had to have a terminal event to achieve that.

Just a view.

Phil D. Rolls
05-09-2014, 08:42 AM
5. Do you agree that Easter Road Stadium should be safeguarded as the future of Hibernian Football Club and any decision to change this must be made by the supporters?

Now why would anybody be asking that, and what exactly does safeguarded mean?

Sums the survey up, full of loaded questions. Having established the answers they want, the designers have set the questions accordingly.

Leithenhibby
05-09-2014, 09:42 AM
The problem with hostile takeover attempts is that they polarise opinion and everyone is damaged. Paul Kane is correct in saying that now is the time to make a meaningful change for the best. However, the options out there have not been clear on detail. Forget the NDA - if there is one - that covers the detail of the bid and any commercial information supplied by both parties. All bidders can be clear on their financial depth and their intentions. If this is to be played out in public then be clear on the plan for the club, it's assets and the security mechanisms, together with the financial clout available to the Club post any successful sale to ensure this is not an opportunistic development play or a pie in the sky bid that leaves the club in a perilous position going forward. The details of the financial elements of the bid can remain confidential.

Sentiment will change with detail. Playing to the audience is dangerous because if successful in obtaining the club the same audience will quickly turn if it all goes wrong.

Things are at a low ebb at the moment but at least the changes made look sensible and LD is doing the right things. The neighbours are doing the same but they had to have a terminal event to achieve that.

Just a view.

And a very good view IMO :wink:


5. Do you agree that Easter Road Stadium should be safeguarded as the future of Hibernian Football Club and any decision to change this must be made by the supporters?

Now why would anybody be asking that, and what exactly does safeguarded mean?

Sums the survey up, full of loaded questions. Having established the answers they want, the designers have set the questions accordingly.

Q 3, 4, & 10 do it for me :rolleyes: