Nazi salute "supporter"

[SouthMoroccoStu]

For those not able to make the game on Sunday, just before ko we and viewers across the world were treated to the sight of a Hearts fan doing a nazi salute over and over again

No sensible person or football supporter can condone this behaviour

What surprises me is the media coverage of this

The individual is only being refered to as a supporter/fan, not a hearts fan, jambo or hearts supporter

Why is this?

[leggeto]

Seen nowt in the paper about it,maybe they think the poor we Jambo's have been through enough but if it was one of us there would be a witch hunt on

[CropleyWasGod]

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/hearts-fan-charged-police-after-4069133

http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/hearts-fan-charged-by-police-for-nazi-salute-1-3512284

Kinda refutes both arguments. :greengrin

[Keith_M]

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/hearts-fan-charged-police-after-4069133

http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/hearts-fan-charged-by-police-for-nazi-salute-1-3512284

Kinda refutes both arguments. :greengrin


:agree:

[scott7_0(Prague)]

For those not able to make the game on Sunday, just before ko we and viewers across the world were treated to the sight of a Hearts fan doing a nazi salute over and over again

No sensible person or football supporter can condone this behaviour

What surprises me is the media coverage of this

The individual is only being refered to as a supporter/fan, not a hearts fan, jambo or hearts supporter

Why is this?


http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/hearts-fan-charged-police-after-4069133

http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/hearts-fan-charged-by-police-for-nazi-salute-1-3512284

Kinda refutes both arguments. :greengrin


Whoooosh 11 minutes and blown out of the water :tumble::tumble::tumble:

[NAE NOOKIE]

For those not able to make the game on Sunday, just before ko we and viewers across the world were treated to the sight of a Hearts fan doing a nazi salute over and over again

No sensible person or football supporter can condone this behaviour

What surprises me is the media coverage of this

The individual is only being refered to as a supporter/fan, not a hearts fan, jambo or hearts supporter

Why is this?

Even the Yams don't deserve to be condemned over the actions of one stupid little moron who when he grows up will hopefully be aware of history enough to realise what a prat he was and be ashamed of it.

[Beefster]

Its aw just banter likesay. He's not a Nazi in real life, eh. I knew we wouldnae be able to have a laugh at the footie once the PC brigade started coming to the working man's game with their prawn sarnies and lattes.

[Stranraer]

Well the thread title today is better than the one that was up for about 2 minutes yesterday.

[SouthMoroccoStu]

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/hearts-fan-charged-police-after-4069133

http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/hearts-fan-charged-by-police-for-nazi-salute-1-3512284

Kinda refutes both arguments. :greengrin

Lol ok take it back

Certainly forth 1 was only saying supporter - honest:greengrin

[--------]

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/hearts-fan-charged-police-after-4069133

http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/hearts-fan-charged-by-police-for-nazi-salute-1-3512284

Kinda refutes both arguments. :greengrin


CWG, I salute you. You've actually used the word "refute" accurately - to mean 'disprove'. This is the first time on the Internet anywhere I can remember someone doing this. :not worth

I've lost count of the number of times I've heard ignorant (and guilty) politicians saying things like "I refute these allegations" when the word they should use is "deny".

Mangling the English language is pedant abuse. Thank you for your accuracy.

[Pedantic_Hibee]

CWG, I salute you. You've actually used the word "refute" accurately - to mean 'disprove'. This is the first time on the Internet anywhere I can remember someone doing this. :not worth

I've lost count of the number of times I've heard ignorant (and guilty) politicians saying things like "I refute these allegations" when the word they should use is "deny".

Mangling the English language is pedant abuse. Thank you for your accuracy.

Wot ee sed ^^^

[Kato]

Mangling the English language is pedant abuse. Thank you for your accuracy.

Should that not be "pedantic"?

[CropleyWasGod]

CWG, I salute you. You've actually used the word "refute" accurately - to mean 'disprove'. This is the first time on the Internet anywhere I can remember someone doing this. :not worth

I've lost count of the number of times I've heard ignorant (and guilty) politicians saying things like "I refute these allegations" when the word they should use is "deny".

Mangling the English language is pedant abuse. Thank you for your accuracy.

Bennyfits o a classical edukashin, ken?

[Beefster]

Should that not be "pedantic"?

I could be wrong but I don't think so.

[Keith_M]

Bennyfits o a classical edukashin, ken?


Latin as well?

Classy!


:wink:

[kentao]

From a few of his mates on facebook hes only "saluting his heart" WTF does the even mean???

[Thecat23]

Why does all the media say it was after the pen? It was before kick off that this happened!

[andrew70]

Whilst I accept what the boy done was wrong, I am sure he is well aware of this as well now. Surely educating him as to why it is wrong would be better than hounding him and/or charging him. He's 21yrs old and has done summat silly at the football. Haven't we all? I fail to see the benefit in giving him a criminal record over this. I don't know him and what he done was stupid but does it really hurt or upset any of us in the long run?

[The Leith Dutch]

Whilst I accept what the boy done was wrong, I am sure he is well aware of this as well now. Surely educating him as to why it is wrong would be better than hounding him and/or charging him. He's 21yrs old and has done summat silly at the football. Haven't we all? I fail to see the benefit in giving him a criminal record over this. I don't know him and what he done was stupid but does it really hurt or upset any of us in the long run?

I get where you're coming from as it may be better for him on an individual level but I'd imagine the criminal record part is intended to send the message to others that this kind of crap is unacceptable.

[Kojock]

Why does all the media say it was after the pen? It was before kick off that this happened!

Was definitely before kick off unless there was more than one arrested for saluting their heart.

[Thecat23]

Was definitely before kick off unless there was more than one arrested for saluting their heart.

Don't think there was anyone else arrested for it or caught on tv. It wasn't after the pen though.


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[Onceinawhile]

Don't think there was anyone else arrested for it or caught on tv. It wasn't after the pen though.


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In addition to showing it before the game, it was also shown after the penalty miss (not sure why), but I'd assume this is where the media have picked it up.

[CropleyWasGod]

In addition to showing it before the game, it was also shown after the penalty miss (not sure why), but I'd assume this is where the media have picked it up.

Hibby director. Has to be.

S'a conspiracy. :cb

[NadeAteMyLunch!]

Why does all the media say it was after the pen? It was before kick off that this happened!

One lazy journalist who's then been copied by other even lazier journalists I would imagine. Defo at the start

[SanFranHibs]

Its aw just banter likesay. He's not a Nazi in real life, eh. I knew we wouldnae be able to have a laugh at the footie once the PC brigade started coming to the working man's game with their prawn sarnies and lattes.

I did not know it was illegal! Still allowed in the States and I recall being at Wembley in the late 80's and was surrounded by about 10,000 England fans, God Save The Queen and Nazi salute. And not just a quick 'hello, how's your father?'. Arms outstretched for the duration of anthem.

And we've seen thousands of fans doing it in unison in quite a few European countries. I don't recall any mass arrests.

Off the top of my head is it Craig in Prague has the Black Power salute avatar? Better be careful Craig!! The anti-Nazi Nazis might be coming your way.

Black power salutes, White Power salutes, communist clenched fist salutes, masonic handshakes. Where will it all end?

[NadeAteMyLunch!]

From a few of his mates on facebook hes only "saluting his heart" WTF does the even mean???

It means that his mates are obviously bell ends as well and are trying to defend him. It's crystal clear what he's doing. Defending it is nearly as bad as the act itself IMO and is why so many 'football fans' in this country think its acceptable to live in the 1800's still

[Pedantic_Hibee]

Should that not be "pedantic"?

Keep me oot ay it!

[CropleyWasGod]

I did not know it was illegal!

Don't think it's illegal per se.

However, to quote the EEN, "the man had been charged with making offensive gestures".

To be offensive, one must prove offence. Shouldn't be too hard to find someone that was offended.

[Bostonhibby]

Apparently some Spurs fan posting on facebook trying to track the silly wee laddie down - might not end well.

[DaveF]

I did not know it was illegal! Still allowed in the States and I recall being at Wembley in the late 80's and was surrounded by about 10,000 England fans, God Save The Queen and Nazi salute. And not just a quick 'hello, how's your father?'. Arms outstretched for the duration of anthem.

And we've seen thousands of fans doing it in unison in quite a few European countries. I don't recall any mass arrests.

Off the top of my head is it Craig in Prague has the Black Power salute avatar? Better be careful Craig!! The anti-Nazi Nazis might be coming your way.

Black power salutes, White Power salutes, communist clenched fist salutes, masonic handshakes. Where will it all end?

Not sure what the actual 'crime' is but a Villa fan was given 3 year ban from football and fined £150 last year for the same thing. So this ersehole can expect at least the same, perhaps more.

[SanFranHibs]

In addition to showing it before the game, it was also shown after the penalty miss (not sure why), but I'd assume this is where the media have picked it up.

I think they are trying to contruct his alibi.

By showing it after the penalty they are hoping his lawyer can say, 'He was just showing how the keeper nearly go his hand to it'!!

As CropleyWG said....a definite conspiracy.

By the end of the week he'll be a sensitive, caring individual who spend countless hours helping the needy in his community.

P.S. I think if our keeper had practised his 'salutes' he might have saved it!!!

[DaveF]

Apparently some Spurs fan posting on facebook trying to track the silly wee laddie down - might not end well.

Although he's a prize bellend, I would imagine this is internet posturing and nothing will come of it.

He's already been condemned as a national idiot, his place at Vale of Leithen must under scrutiny and he'll have a court date soon enough.

[Ozyhibby]

A ban from football is perfectly reasonable but anything above that is an infringement of his civil liberties and right to free speech.

[Thecat23]

In addition to showing it before the game, it was also shown after the penalty miss (not sure why), but I'd assume this is where the media have picked it up.

Ah right, I had my head in my hands after the pen so must have missed it. Like another poster says though, lazy journalism!!


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[SanFranHibs]

Don't think it's illegal per se.

However, to quote the EEN, "the man had been charged with making offensive gestures".

To be offensive, one must prove offence. Shouldn't be too hard to find someone that was offended.

So who was actually offended at the time? Does it not have to be someone there to report it? Was it even reported? And then if it transpires that no-one at the time reported him then no-one was offended.

I hear Brutus speaking in the backgorund, 'Then none have I offended'.

[CropleyWasGod]

So who was actually offended at the time? Does it not have to be someone there to report it? Was it even reported? And then if it transpires that no-one at the time reported him then no-one was offended.

I hear Brutus speaking in the backgorund, 'Then none have I offended'.

According to the reports, it was Hearts themselves who reported it to the police.

[GreenLake]

CWG, I salute you. You've actually used the word "refute" accurately - to mean 'disprove'. This is the first time on the Internet anywhere I can remember someone doing this. :not worth

I've lost count of the number of times I've heard ignorant (and guilty) politicians saying things like "I refute these allegations" when the word they should use is "deny".

Mangling the English language is pedant abuse. Thank you for your accuracy.

It is slightly ironic that you praise the accurate use of a Germanic language in a thread about a Nazi saluter.

[SanFranHibs]

According to the reports, it was Hearts themselves who reported it to the police.

I did not know that CWG. Interesting. Maybe thinking if they can ban him they can get someone else in his seat. Sell 2 season tickets for 1 seat.

Only big clubs can do that!

[Speedy]

The reaction to this is completely ott.

[Beefster]

A ban from football is perfectly reasonable but anything above that is an infringement of his civil liberties and right to free speech.

If that was the case, hate crimes and/or discrimination wouldn't exist in law.

[NAE NOOKIE]

A ban from football is perfectly reasonable but anything above that is an infringement of his civil liberties and right to free speech.

The right to free speech comes with certain responsibilities though. Anybody has the right to articulate a certain point of view no matter how distasteful or barmy it might be.

But the Nazi salute only has one meaning ..... that the person doing it is showing support or sympathy for an ideology which systematically murdered millions of people and holds that certain sections of the human race are 'sub human' and no better than animals. There is no place for reasoned debate on the subject.

Free speech gives a person the right to espouse a theory that for example white people are intellectually superior to black people. It does not give that person the right to support or articulate a theory that says they should be subjugated or exterminated because of it.

[Aldo]

I find it pretty galling that folk seem to dismiss what this guy did.

Appalling behaviour IMHO from a team and set of fans who have close connections to the war (Macraes Battalion) and whose current strip is connected to this.

There is no place in football for this kind of behaviour in anyway shape or form and is as bad if not worse than the bigots in the west.

My opinion mind.

And if HMFC has indeed reported this then well done to them.

[LeithBoozy]

I find it pretty galling that folk seem to dismiss what this guy did.

Appalling behaviour IMHO from a team and set of fans who have close connections to the war (Macraes Battalion) and whose current strip is connected to this.

There is no place in football for this kind of behaviour in anyway shape or form and is as bad if not worse than the bigots in the west.

My opinion mind.

And if HMFC has indeed reported this then well done to them.

Well said mate, I hope they throw the book at him.

[Dashing Bob S]

We've all flirted with notorious far right politics to gain attention in our nihilistic youth. I once invaded Poland because I wasn't allowed to set up my subbuteo in the front room.

[Kato]

We've all flirted with notorious far right politics to gain attention in our nihilistic youth. I once invaded Poland because I wasn't allowed to set up my subbuteo in the front room.


:agree:


I annexed the Germanic speaking sections of the old Ottoman Empire just after my Ma' refused to buy me a pair of sky-blue sta-press.

[Spike Mandela]

Sad how quickly they moved from winning WWI to supporting the enemy in WWII.:cb

Seen plenty of these buffoons doing it at Tynie before and have seen it loads at Ibrox as well. A few years ago in the middle of our beautiful city packed with tourists an Orange walk was allowed along Princes St and the tail end of this was packed with Rangers shirted, Nazi saluting thugs.

Never let them forget this undercurrent they have running through their support. Hearts have moved quickly to diffuse this as a little scratch under the surface will unearth a lot of this unsavoury thinking in their support.

[NAE NOOKIE]

We've all flirted with notorious far right politics to gain attention in our nihilistic youth. I once invaded Poland because I wasn't allowed to set up my subbuteo in the front room.

I heard that you and your mum were in collusion on the Subbuteo situation so that it could be used as a pretext for invading Poland.

[CentreLine]

According to the reports, it was Hearts themselves who reported it to the police.

Many congratulations to hearts for doing that. If more clubs would follow suit we might see and end to the more unwanted side to football. They've been criticised plenty in the past year and quite correctly. This time they have acted quickly and correctly in my view.

[Bostonhibby]

We've all flirted with notorious far right politics to gain attention in our nihilistic youth. I once invaded Poland because I wasn't allowed to set up my subbuteo in the front room.

It was the annexation of the Sudetenland for me, We kicked our ball over the border and they wouldn't give us it back so there really wasn't any realistic alternative.

[JimBHibees]

Many congratulations to hearts for doing that. If more clubs would follow suit we might see and end to the more unwanted side to football. They've been criticised plenty in the past year and quite correctly. This time they have acted quickly and correctly in my view.

A very positive move IMO and maybe the new ownership may see a positive move in that direction where previously there appeared to be too much tolerance of lets say the more extreme members of their support. Can only be a good thing in the long run if it is maintained.

[21.05.2016]

I find it pretty galling that folk seem to dismiss what this guy did.

Appalling behaviour IMHO from a team and set of fans who have close connections to the war (Macraes Battalion) and whose current strip is connected to this.

There is no place in football for this kind of behaviour in anyway shape or form and is as bad if not worse than the bigots in the west.

My opinion mind.

And if HMFC has indeed reported this then well done to them.

Totally agree.

[21.05.2016]

Sad how quickly they moved from winning WWI to supporting the enemy in WWII.:cb

Seen plenty of these buffoons doing it at Tynie before and have seen it loads at Ibrox as well. A few years ago in the middle of our beautiful city packed with tourists an Orange walk was allowed along Princes St and the tail end of this was packed with Rangers shirted, Nazi saluting thugs.

Never let them forget this undercurrent they have running through their support. Hearts have moved quickly to diffuse this as a little scratch under the surface will unearth a lot of this unsavoury thinking in their support.

I remeber walking down easter road before a derby match (must have been maybe 2 years ago or something) and there was a group of jambo mutants doing it from across the road. A few hibs fans shouted back but amazingly the police never seemed to take action (well not that I saw anyway) despite it happeneing right under their noses.

Defo don't want to tar all jambos with the same brush because there are many jambos out there that would be disgusted by their fellow fans doing such thing but there certainly is a very dark, vile element in their support.

[linlithgowhibbie]

Surely it was a "Red hand of Ulster / Loyalist" salute not a Nazi one, sure I heard thats what all the the Rangers fans do!:confused:

[SanFranHibs]

I remeber walking down easter road before a derby match (must have been maybe 2 years ago or something) and there was a group of jambo mutants doing it from across the road. A few hibs fans shouted back but amazingly the police never seemed to take action (well not that I saw anyway) despite it happeneing right under their noses.

Defo don't want to tar all jambos with the same brush because there are many jambos out there that would be disgusted by their fellow fans doing such thing but there certainly is a very dark, vile element in their support.

There might be a few and quite a few might think what a p***k but I think most would not be disgusted! Well, not one of them reported him!!!

[emerald green]

Even the Yams don't deserve to be condemned over the actions of one stupid little moron who when he grows up will hopefully be aware of history enough to realise what a prat he was and be ashamed of it.

The thing is, this is nothing new from Hearts supporters. It's not just this guy. Loads more of them have been doing it for years.

I'm not sure why HOMFC decided to do something about this particular p**** this time.

Israeli flags in one hand, and Nazi salutes with the other. Only the stupid ignorant Yams, copying their heroes from Govan. Sad bunch.

PS: Not every Hearts fan does this, but there's a fair number within their support who are like-minded.

[Pete]

There were three youngsters in the front row of their section next to ours who were holding a union flag. One of them was definitely doing Nazi salutes so I don't know if he's the boy who's been arrested or another one. Hats off to hearts for dealing with this and the vast majority of them dont want this near the ground. They're all season ticket holders apparently so it shouldn't be too hard to get them.

Was there a half-ersed effort at a Serbian flag there too? If they're going to do it they might as well do it right by doing some research and ordering the correct flag.

[CropleyWasGod]

The thing is, this is nothing new from Hearts supporters. It's not just this guy. Loads more of them have been doing it for years.

I'm not sure why HOMFC decided to do something about this particular p**** this time.

Israeli flags in one hand, and Nazi salutes with the other. Only the stupid ignorant Yams, copying their heroes from Govan. Sad bunch.

PS: Not every Hearts fan does this, but there's a fair number within their support who are like-minded.

New regime taking a stand, perhaps?

[emerald green]

New regime taking a stand, perhaps?

Could be, especially with lots of WWI commemorations taking place this year they won't want this sort of embarrassment.

[neil7908]

I find it pretty galling that folk seem to dismiss what this guy did.

Appalling behaviour IMHO from a team and set of fans who have close connections to the war (Macraes Battalion) and whose current strip is connected to this.

There is no place in football for this kind of behaviour in anyway shape or form and is as bad if not worse than the bigots in the west.

My opinion mind.

And if HMFC has indeed reported this then well done to them.

Agree 100% - find it bizarre and genuinely unbelievable that anyone would even try and defend this by saying he's young, who hasn't done something daft at a football game at that age etc etc. Total nonsense. At 21 your well and truly an adult but even if he was 16/17 thats no excuse.

Myself and my mates have managed to collectively attend 100's of games (including a fair few derbies) without throwing around Nazi salutes or engaging in any other kind of behaviour that would never in a million years be tolerated in other public places. The fact its in a football ground is totally irrelevant.

In terms of football (i.e. attendance at games) he should have the book thrown at him. I have no idea what the actual law in regarding this but if the police believe he has committed a criminal offence then good luck to them in prosecuting.

[Hibbyradge]

It was the annexation of the Sudetenland for me, We kicked our ball over the border and they wouldn't give us it back so there really wasn't any realistic alternative.

My poor geographical knowledge at the time led me to annex Sunderland by mistake.

[hibsbollah]

New regime taking a stand, perhaps?

:agree: They need the Liebensraum.

[Canongatehibs]

From nazi saluting to Poppy loving.
From C18 recruitment to self proclaimed ww1 victors.
No wonder they've a 'manager' who mumbles like a Star Wars cafe character....

Wot a neat outfit.

[PeeJay]

:agree: They need the Liebensraum.

I realise you may be making a joke (and I'm just too slow on the uptake, that's what comes with living in Germany, I guess), but it was originally about "Lebensraum" - as in more space to live in, while "liebensraum" is more room for sex, I suppose ...

... anyway, while I'm at it, it's not actually a Nazi salute is it (hand across the chest first then straight up), seems to be more of the old Roman salute or something adopted by Benito M. - haven't you guys watched enough old war movies back home at Xmas to know the difference? :greengrin

[Stranraer]

Surely it was a "Red hand of Ulster / Loyalist" salute not a Nazi one, sure I heard thats what all the the Rangers fans do!:confused:

There is no such salute. I lived in Ireland for a few years and I can assure you that old excuse is just that - there is no link between Unionism and that "salute" < in fact, the red hand of Ulster is commonly interpreted as being something exclusively Loyalist. The flag of Ulster's 9 counties is yellow... so don't let any Nazi say it was a red hand salute.

[hibsbollah]

I realise you may be making a joke (and I'm just too slow on the uptake, that's what comes with living in Germany, I guess), but it was originally about "Lebensraum" - as in more space to live in, while "liebensraum" is more room for sex, I suppose ...

... anyway, while I'm at it, it's not actually a Nazi salute is it (hand across the chest first then straight up), seems to be more of the old Roman salute or something adopted by Benito M. - haven't you guys watched enough old war movies back home at Xmas to know the difference? :greengrin

No I just misspelt. Quite a good Nazi Freudian slip though.

[DaveF]

Just wondering what happened (if anything) to this guy.

I see he is back on facebook, twitter and played every game for Vale of Leithen since his wee salute.

Was it all swept under the carpet, found not guilty or has it all been seen off as a wee joke?