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View Full Version : Speculate to Accumulate (NOW BEFORE IT'S Too LATE).



Wellbankhibby
18-08-2014, 06:44 PM
Once again we are on the wrong end of a result against that mob. In my opinion we have to buy players now. Far too often we are bullied and assaulted by these gangsters. They cheated there way to beating us in cup finals buy buying players they could never afford and they have ALWAYS fielded assasins against us. There priority is to manhandle us and kick us off the park.
The sad thing is that this is nothing new and we have watched this for years. That is there style of play they make themselves hard to beat and unfortunately our players are intimidated by them. We are normally beaten before we start the game. This has to be a psychological thing. We must get new players in Now. We have loads of time to win this league but it will only happen if the board and management act now. Rangers and hearts are there for the taking. It is up to the powers that be to get New players in now. As a team we are a soft touch and have been for many years, we are normally a much better football team than them but what good is that when we are not allowed to play. As for the officials yesterday another disgusting performance as they stood and watched the thugs carry out there business as usual. Baubin, Sow and Ozturk should all have been dismissed before half time. A Message to the Board Please sign players now, this is our chance to win this league and get back to our rightful place. I have not seen anything to worry us. The time for Action is NOW. :flag:

eastterrace
18-08-2014, 06:57 PM
Once again we are on the wrong end of a result against that mob. In my opinion we have to buy players now. Far too often we are bullied and assaulted by these gangsters. They cheated there way to beating us in cup finals buy buying players they could never afford and they have ALWAYS fielded assasins against us. There priority is to manhandle us and kick us off the park.
The sad thing is that this is nothing new and we have watched this for years. That is there style of play they make themselves hard to beat and unfortunately our players are intimidated by them. We are normally beaten before we start the game. This has to be a psychological thing. We must get new players in Now. We have loads of time to win this league but it will only happen if the board and management act now. Rangers and hearts are there for the taking. It is up to the powers that be to get New players in now. As a team we are a soft touch and have been for many years, we are normally a much better football team than them but what good is that when we are not allowed to play. As for the officials yesterday another disgusting performance as they stood and watched the thugs carry out there business as usual. Baubin, Sow and Ozturk should all have been dismissed before half time. A Message to the Board Please sign players now, this is our chance to win this league and get back to our rightful place. I have not seen anything to worry us. The time for Action is NOW. :flag:
wasting your breath mate , we aint spending much. we are down here for two seasons thats my take on it. we just have to weather the next few seasons.

smurf
18-08-2014, 07:02 PM
No chance under this owner and board. I'm not so sure they'd even go the extra mile if Griffiths was available...

AL-Qaholik
18-08-2014, 07:07 PM
8 players in yesterday's starting 11 contributed (some VERY centrally) to our relagation.
That is a damning indictment of where we are and where we will continue to be until MAJOR changes are made at the very top of the club. We MIGHT scrape 4th but, unless there is a total change in direction, mentality and board/ownership, we are down for two seasons at the very least...

lord bunberry
18-08-2014, 07:20 PM
The boat should be pushed out and griffiths signed on a permanent contract

Franck Stanton
18-08-2014, 08:16 PM
lets face it, unless we sign at least another 3 quality players we are not going to be an SPFL team next year. Will we win the league ? No. Will we make the play - off in 2nd,3rd or 4th ? Yes. however, in doing that we will have to play hertz over two games and, on the evidence of the past , what 20years or so, do you really expect us to beat them in games that REALLY matter ?

Northernhibee
18-08-2014, 08:37 PM
The boat should be pushed out and griffiths signed on a permanent contract

I couldn't see Celtic selling him for less than £1m and there's no way on earth we have that kind of money at all.

You can't spend what you don't have.

greenpaper55
18-08-2014, 08:53 PM
The board had the chance last new year time and look what we got, every one was useless and Rod and TF could not care less if it takes years to get out of the championship as long as it does not cost them a penny.

lucky
18-08-2014, 09:00 PM
You can only speculate if you have the money to do so. Only Celtic have bought any players this summer so it not going happen.

Wellbankhibby
18-08-2014, 09:32 PM
You can only speculate if you have the money to do so. Only Celtic have bought any players this summer so it not going happen.

I think Hibs have the money, they could have had Griffiths last season for a knockdown price.
Look what happens when you wont spend a little he is now with celtic at one million. Take it from me if they dont spend money they will loose a lot more in the long run by staying in the lower leagues.

scuttle
18-08-2014, 09:35 PM
I couldn't see Celtic selling him for less than £1m and there's no way on earth we have that kind of money at all.

You can't spend what you don't have.

Tell that to Sevco and the Yams

Biggie
18-08-2014, 09:35 PM
I couldn't see Celtic selling him for less than £1m and there's no way on earth we have that kind of money at all.

You can't spend what you don't have, unless your hearts.

Fixed that for you NH.....

Wellbankhibby
18-08-2014, 09:46 PM
Tell that to Sevco and the Yams

Exactly, both of these so called clubs have cheated there way to winning league titles and cups and what was their punishment NOTHING. Administration so what. Scottish Football is corrupt play by the rules and get nothing, cheat and win silverware and titles. Its a Joke. Every team who has gone into administration recently has come back far stronger, no debts. Motherwell and the yams and gers. Its disgraceful. Why dont we all cheat. We would be better off.

jdships
18-08-2014, 09:59 PM
I think Hibs have the money, they could have had Griffiths last season for a knockdown price.
Look what happens when you wont spend a little he is now with celtic at one million. Take it from me if they dont spend money they will loose a lot more in the long run by staying in the lower leagues.

That I have been and still am being told is a "Fairy tale" :rolleyes:

Jim44
18-08-2014, 10:06 PM
Speculate to Accumulate ........... dirty words in the eyes of the present board and have been so for years on end. We are so weak and likely to remain so for the foreseeable future that the only way out is to buy our way out of trouble. Shouldn't happen and won't happen according to most on here who appreciate the 'prudence' of Petrie and Co. and the relatively stable financial footing they have achieved over the past few years. But what has this 'never mind the quality, feel the financial security' mind-set given us for years? .................... zilch!!! I would support a calculated 'gamble' for a season or so, which, if the right players are brought in to the club, would greatly improve the quality and success on the pitch and consequently pay for itself in increased financial input by the supporters. If it didn't work and a return to a couple of year's of 'austerity' was needed to 'pay for the gamble', I don't think many would complain, as at least, we would have 'failed' making a conscious effort to become a challenging club in the process. The alternative is to carry on regardless in a never-ending mediocrity which is getting us nowhere and could keep us in the lower divisions for years on end. :tin hat: .............. but, we know, it ain't gonna happen.

silverhibee
18-08-2014, 10:34 PM
I couldn't see Celtic selling him for less than £1m and there's no way on earth we have that kind of money at all.

You can't spend what you don't have.

Who says we don't have it.

erskine-hibby
18-08-2014, 10:37 PM
Too busy bulking up the backroom staff (not that this was not needed also) while the playing side suffers...yet again!
Slow to make a decision on sacking/recruiting a new manager, slow in getting players in and absolutely dead to the idea that actually investing, really investing, in the squad could actually pay dividends in the likes of season tickets sales, gate receipts and merchandise sales.
I'm afraid, though, that we have seen this all too often, it seems that, with Petrie at the helm, we will never learn.

Iain G
19-08-2014, 12:57 AM
Speculate to Accumulate ........... dirty words in the eyes of the present board and have been so for years on end. We are so weak and likely to remain so for the foreseeable future that the only way out is to buy our way out of trouble. Shouldn't happen and won't happen according to most on here who appreciate the 'prudence' of Petrie and Co. and the relatively stable financial footing they have achieved over the past few years. But what has this 'never mind the quality, feel the financial security' mind-set given us for years? .................... zilch!!! I would support a calculated 'gamble' for a season or so, which, if the right players are brought in to the club, would greatly improve the quality and success on the pitch and consequently pay for itself in increased financial input by the supporters. If it didn't work and a return to a couple of year's of 'austerity' was needed to 'pay for the gamble', I don't think many would complain, as at least, we would have 'failed' making a conscious effort to become a challenging club in the process. The alternative is to carry on regardless in a never-ending mediocrity which is getting us nowhere and could keep us in the lower divisions for years on end. :tin hat: .............. but, we know, it ain't gonna happen.

What is a calculated gamble?! And how much money would it take to get us from where we are right now to where you think we could get to? And if it isn't sustainable and we drop back down to mediocrity, with heavier debt, would that not be a worse outcome for the supporters and the club?

The new management team have to be given time to turn the whole nature and structure and mindset of the whole club around.

cocopops1875
19-08-2014, 06:58 AM
I enjoyed the OP slagging hearts and calling them gangsters for spending out with their means, while suggesting we spend out with our means. This place honestly makes me cry inside

lucky
19-08-2014, 07:04 AM
Don't get this back room staff have been recruited in place of players. We all accept Hibs have been run poorly over the years but don't appear to want to fund the changes.

lord bunberry
19-08-2014, 07:40 AM
I couldn't see Celtic selling him for less than £1m and there's no way on earth we have that kind of money at all.

You can't spend what you don't have.

I doubt he would cost as much as that, iirc he cost them £1m. If they're looking to cut their losses after 6 months then the asking price would be lower.

Ronniekirk
19-08-2014, 07:57 AM
Don't get this back room staff have been recruited in place of players. We all accept Hibs have been run poorly over the years but don't appear to want to fund the changes.
Think changes were coming in Back room but Leeann has driven them further to put solid foundations in to move us forward However she was expecting to be doing that with us in higher division so think it goes without saying that player budget isn't what it would have been had we stayed up .Thats why folk are speculating that she may well behind the scenes be making it clear it's a two year plan to come back up taking some of the pressure off Stubbs but trying her hardest to now fund a few extra players to give us a fighting chance of doing it via playoffs this year . I know she will publicly say we are looking to win it but the fact we have documented on other threads how behind we are with preparations ,signings etc means we are playing catch up from the off in ever sense

dangermouse
19-08-2014, 08:03 AM
Speculate to accumulate. To do that, you need money to do the speculation. Unfortunately, too many people have either not renewed or are only just doing so for there to be money in the pot.

I doubt we'll see any new permanent faces now unless Stubbs stumbles over a gem from under the radar.

eastcoasthibby
19-08-2014, 09:36 AM
I have said this for the past couple of years, that to progress we need to speculate to accumulate LG was the prime example regardless of whether the deal could have been done at 150k or double that, he earned the club with his goals a couple of million at least !!! the other good example of not speculating was Adam Rooney in January, Petrie wouldn't give him a permanent contract just a loan deal and he went and got a 2 year deal at Aberdeen ..a couple of goals from him would have prevented us being where we are now !!! enough said as it is evident that this Board, Petrie and Farmer are water tight and rigid in their stance. I cannot believe that they cannot see that successful speculation increases the value of the club ..which is their money !! businessmen ?? so the question sits- what is the motivation not to speculate ?

I am might well be wrong but speculation could work/look like this :-
bring in 3 quality players on 4k per week (paying for their quality) = 624 K per year (approx)
bring in 2 quality players on 3k per week = 468 K per year (approx)
= total 1.1 million(approx).

To pay for this -
I feel that we still have at least 1500 ST's from last season not renewed and also another bundle (unknown) who have been sitting waiting to see who we sign that will mark our intent and commitment to getting things right on the park probably 1000 minimum dependent on who we bring in.
So on that basis 2500 x 350 per ST, taking an average of who buys ST's = 875k. a gap of 200K.

This gap and the amount of seasons is the speculation, but just how great is the actual risk, perhaps realistically the worst case is that we would pick up only 1500 new ST's, leaving a 550 k gap.

There is no account taken of any walk-up numbers increasing, an extra 1000 walk ups per game for 10 home games gives us the 200K or merchandising sales, which could easily help bridge the financial gap and of course we may sell the extra 2500 number of ST's.(although i do accept that time is probably running out for ST sales a given all the nonsense about ST value against walk up !!

Whilst I am no doubt sure this will be seen as an overly simplistic view point, but hopefully it will initiate some thinking about what is possible and the rough numbers involved, what is better or worse is that it shows how little in relative terms it could take to give us a real fighting chance of taking this league and getting back up, where the money speculated will come in again much more easily.

What is not mentioned is that IMO and has been mentioned by others, that another year in this league will diminish the support, if no commitment from the Board is seen this season, that shall impact heavily on trying to sell ST's next and so the downward spiral shall continue, hence the belief that this is the time to speculate, where the financial gap is least and we have a manager who looks like really good value even in these early days. Give him the tools to work with.

Is the club and it's immediate future not worth between 500 - 700k at this time.

NORTHERNHIBBY
19-08-2014, 09:42 AM
I would guess that Alan Stubbs, as manager, has been given a budget, and then asked if he can use that budget, to get us a top four finish.
We should give him time to get on with that.

yankyhibby
19-08-2014, 09:46 AM
Is the club and it's immediate future not worth between 500 - 700k at this time.

Well done for putting a bit of thought behind the figures. Leeanne Dempster, I'm sure, has done something similar and likely tried every permutation. Time will tell whether the necessary financial investment is executed. The next 2 weeks to the transfer deadline day will reveal the clubs intent. Here's hoping.

Smartie
19-08-2014, 10:06 AM
If you want a club who "speculate to accumulate" you better find another one.

We are "ever decreasing circles" and self-fulfilling prophecy of failure" FC.

NAE NOOKIE
19-08-2014, 10:08 AM
The current regime will never speculate to accumulate. They did that to build the team that got us back up last time, but that was a league minus the Yams and Zombies .... they wont take the same chance this time.

To make the play offs you need to finish at least 4th and we can surely do that with what we have. If the Zomies win the league and Yams finish second that of course leaves us with the following.

Probable home and away tie with Falkirk, QotS or Raith.

Home and away tie with the Yams

Home and away tie with probably Ross County, St Mirren, Killie, Hamilton or Dundee.

I wouldn't have put money on much much better Hibs teams than this one to make it through that.

Barring a miracle we are down here for at least two seasons. Mind you ........... sometimes miracles happen :greengrin

All together now to the tune of 'sing when you're winning'

League reconstruction
Its time for league reconstruction
League reconstruuuuuuuuuuuuuction
Its time for league reconstruction.

Keith_M
19-08-2014, 10:12 AM
Is there some way I can use my winnings from the German Lottery last weekend to help out?


:dunno:

Nutmegged
19-08-2014, 10:14 AM
Speculate to accumulate, those words send shivers down any owners in Scotland, look at Celtic, when THEY don't even speculate to accumulate you must realise its not a gamble worth taking at this time, if this League didn't have Hearts/Rangers in it then I think we would speculate to accumulate as it would be pretry much gauranteed we would go up, but even if we did speculate, with those two teams in the Division it still might not happen so if we're putting all our eggs in the basket of instant promotion and we ultimtaely fail then we could put ourselves in big trouble.


Griffiths is a no-goer, you're talking £1m+ for him and at least £400k per year over a 4 year contract thats an outlay of around £3m - we aren't in a position to be putting that kind of money on a player and definitely not when we arw outwith the top tier of Scottish Football.

ekhibee
19-08-2014, 11:59 AM
this thread is speculating about speculating! Seriously though, the only way we can do that is if Farmer digs in his pocket to finance the buying of players and as far as I know he's never ever done that in the entire time he's been at Hibs and doesn't look likely to in the near future.

silverhibee
19-08-2014, 12:08 PM
I doubt he would cost as much as that, iirc he cost them £1m. If they're looking to cut their losses after 6 months then the asking price would be lower.

Peter Lawwell doesn't do letting go on the cheap, if he was put up for sale i think celtc would slap a £2m price tag on him, he still has 3 1/2 years left on his contract.

The_Exile
19-08-2014, 12:10 PM
Buying Griffiths or AN Other marquee player won't add season tickets, that ship has well and truly sailed, we've had a home game already and the next one is Saturday, so unless Hibs take the cost of those two games off the ST price, nobody in their right mind would buy one, they'll be walk ups, it's not as if they'll struggle for a seat this year.

Phil MaGlass
19-08-2014, 12:14 PM
Buying Griffiths or AN Other marquee player won't add season tickets, that ship has well and truly sailed, we've had a home game already and the next one is Saturday, so unless Hibs take the cost of those two games off the ST price, nobody in their right mind would buy one, they'll be walk ups, it's not as if they'll struggle for a seat this year.

Aye yir right on both accounts, I could seriously see a large amount of walkups if we signed griffiths, dont think it will happen but we could certainly get back what was paid or in wages.

cocopops1875
19-08-2014, 12:39 PM
Buying Griffiths or AN Other marquee player won't add season tickets, that ship has well and truly sailed, we've had a home game already and the next one is Saturday, so unless Hibs take the cost of those two games off the ST price, nobody in their right mind would buy one, they'll be walk ups, it's not as if they'll struggle for a seat this year.
It's just another "I will come back and buy a season when" stick to beat the club with all just utter Baws and loose words

The Leith Dutch
19-08-2014, 12:43 PM
Aye yir right on both accounts, I could seriously see a large amount of walkups if we signed griffiths, dont think it will happen but we could certainly get back what was paid or in wages.

Did someone not say he's on about 10 grand a week?

Assuming we were prepared to pay him that we'd need to add c. 1000 to home gates @ £20 to cover it.
While that sounds quite achievable in the short term I'd imagine it would massively demotivate the rest of the team who don't earn anything like that much.

Even with Griffiths if the tean continues to underperform we would struggle along at gates of around 10,000 which is, in a nutshell, the problem - the £10,000 a week would be contractual while the extra walks ups would not be.

SanFranHibs
19-08-2014, 12:57 PM
Did someone not say he's on about 10 grand a week?

Assuming we were prepared to pay him that we'd need to add c. 1000 to home gates @ £20 to cover it.
While that sounds quite achievable in the short term I'd imagine it would massively demotivate the rest of the team who don't earn anything like that much.

Even with Griffiths if the tean continues to underperform we would struggle along at gates of around 10,000 which is, in a nutshell, the problem - the £10,000 a week would be contractual while the extra walks ups would not be.

And if we struggle without players like Griffiths we'll be dealing with crowds of 6,000-8,000.

We know we can't blow millions but if we are to get quality over quantity how can we achieve that without spending money.

I have not given up on LD and Stubbs spending a bit more before the transfer window closes. However, if we don't we're in this division next year. Bottom line is, we have lost (once in a little cup I know) to Rangers and to Hearts our supposed biggest rivals. Hearts have beaten Rangers and us in the league already. Does not bode well if we don't strengthen this squad.

As I said I have not given up. I am sure we must be actually looking for players and not more backroom staff.

NAE NOOKIE
19-08-2014, 03:21 PM
Buying Griffiths or AN Other marquee player won't add season tickets, that ship has well and truly sailed, we've had a home game already and the next one is Saturday, so unless Hibs take the cost of those two games off the ST price, nobody in their right mind would buy one, they'll be walk ups, it's not as if they'll struggle for a seat this year.

Never thought about that. How can folk not buy a season ticket at any time during the season with the price adjusted to take into account games already played?

At the risk of answering my own question I suppose folk could test the water by going as walk ups for the first few games and then go .... no chance I'm buying a season ticket to watch this pish :confused:

Turkish Green
19-08-2014, 05:36 PM
I commented at the beginning of the season that Hibs would struggle to maintain a top 4 finish due to having a small squad that will struggle when injuries and suspensions kick-in.

Sheesh! Two games into the season and we are 2 men down. Stubbs may be inexperienced but he must see that he needs to bring in more players before the window closes.

HibbySpurs
20-08-2014, 12:39 PM
Quite simply, we dont do specualte to accumulate....

For years our ownership/board have baulked at the very thought of over-extending their budget to the point that it would involve taking on debt even in the short term to enhance the playing squad.

The same ownership (and the supporters truth be told) have been hoping that the "golden generation" would repeat itself and we'd find ourselves with a wealth of young talent like we had with Brown, Thomson, Fletcher etc. etc.

This was most likely never going to happen as it was a pretty freak incident when it did so pinning our hopes on that particular donkey has failed miserably.

Hence we ended up with no more than two bit journeymen and the occasional genius in our midst (Gritthis, Claros)....

Not good enough principles on which to develop a winning mentality and a winning team.

Theres no imiganation or the dare to dream at Hibs and there hasnt been for years. We sold the family silver when we could to ensure the clubs on-going viability, the price for that has been mediocrity at best on the playing field and to be honest we were the worst team in the Premiership last season and deserved what we got.

It wont change under the current ownership regardless of who's Chief Exec in my opinion. Unless real investment is made now (like within the next two weeks) I am coming round to the fact that we will be playing Championsip football in season 15/16 as well and doubt we're a certanity to come back up even then.

I'd like to think that we are at the stage where as they say "The darkest hour is always the one before dawn" but all I see is the dawn of an era where we are a yo-yo club at best and to say that makes we want to weep.

Hearts/Rangers cheated but they've gotten away with it and make no mistake Hearts will forever glory in it if they go up and we stay down, it really will give them their evidence of Big Team/Wee Team mentality.

I found writing the above quite emotional and heart breaking but it's true as far as I can see. I hope and pray something changes and we get the ownership we now deserve, one that wants to make us a real force in Scottish football again without cheating or bankrupting us in the process but where will that come from?

GGTTH.

jacomo
20-08-2014, 02:41 PM
If we don't go up this season, parachute money will fall away and crowds will probably fall. It would be hard to sustain ticket prices at current levels for another season in the Championship.

I broadly agree that Hibs should be self-sustaining, but I don't think an extended stay in the Scottish 2nd tier is sustainable. Petrie helped get us into this mess, and he and STF now need to dig into their own pockets to get us out.

emerald green
20-08-2014, 02:50 PM
I commented at the beginning of the season that Hibs would struggle to maintain a top 4 finish due to having a small squad that will struggle when injuries and suspensions kick-in.

Sheesh! Two games into the season and we are 2 men down. Stubbs may be inexperienced but he must see that he needs to bring in more players before the window closes.

That's true, but it may not simply be down to AS. I'm sure he can see that. Any mug can see that.

However, what if the money simply is not there, or is not being made available to him?

HFC 0-7
20-08-2014, 03:03 PM
I couldn't see Celtic selling him for less than £1m and there's no way on earth we have that kind of money at all.

You can't spend what you don't have.

we didnt have the money to pay for the stands, we borrowed it! Why cant we borrow money to fund a transfer of quality that will in turn help to fill the stands that we borrowed money to build?

hibeesjoe
20-08-2014, 03:05 PM
I'm no businessman so my idea might be a load of rubbish but would a marque signing not boost the gate and if we start winning regular that gate would increase again. The hibs fans are out there, its not like they have jumped ship too another team. They just need a reason for turning up too watch the team again

Eyrie
20-08-2014, 06:51 PM
we didnt have the money to pay for the stands, we borrowed it! Why cant we borrow money to fund a transfer of quality that will in turn help to fill the stands that we borrowed money to build?
We had to borrow it because we continued to have the fourth or fifth highest player wage bill in Scottish football.


I'm no businessman so my idea might be a load of rubbish but would a marque signing not boost the gate and if we start winning regular that gate would increase again. The hibs fans are out there, its not like they have jumped ship too another team. They just need a reason for turning up too watch the team again
I'm sure the idea has occurred to those in charge at Easter Road, but I suspect the names that would attract the fans would want too high a wage. A winning team on the pitch will have the same effect and improve our chances of promotion.

HFC 0-7
20-08-2014, 07:00 PM
We had to borrow it because we continued to have the fourth or fifth highest player wage bill in Scottish football.


I'm sure the idea has occurred to those in charge at Easter Road, but I suspect the names that would attract the fans would want too high a wage. A winning team on the pitch will have the same effect and improve our chances of promotion.


Point being, when it suits the owner and Petrie, we do borrow. We needed to build the new stands, we never had the cash so we borrowed the money. Now, we need the players, we need something to bring the fans back - Why not borrow money to do that? I am not talking about going millions upon millions in debt, but we do need to invest more money in the squad.

Eyrie
20-08-2014, 07:10 PM
Point being, when it suits the owner and Petrie, we do borrow. We needed to build the new stands, we never had the cash so we borrowed the money. Now, we need the players, we need something to bring the fans back - Why not borrow money to do that? I am not talking about going millions upon millions in debt, but we do need to invest more money in the squad.

I was saying the same thing when last season finished, but it's clear that isn't going to happen. Very easy though for us to sit here and demand they do invest for promotion when we aren't privy to the actual numbers involved.

blackpoolhibs
20-08-2014, 07:46 PM
The club should have put the money up for 10k tickets for the manager to spend when he came in. That would have shown leadership and a sign to everyone that we were serious about challenging.

I'm sure we'd have got near 9k sales maybe more if they'd done that.

The money brought in from that could have paid them back the vast majority of that 10k they put in, and we'd probably beaten The Rangers and the gimps, and walk ups would increase on the top of that.

Aye its speculating to accumulate, but not with the risk of a Leeds or Portsmouth.

We always appear to need something of a help from STF at the end of the seasons to help us, why not give it at the start to help us that way, you never know we might not need any help after that?

HFC 0-7
20-08-2014, 08:25 PM
I was saying the same thing when last season finished, but it's clear that isn't going to happen. Very easy though for us to sit here and demand they do invest for promotion when we aren't privy to the actual numbers involved.

They need to start listening though, if we dont get out of this league at the first attempt I fear many fans will have had enough. There will be no where to hide in this league, Hearts are not spending as much as they used to and like us had to do a lot of rebuilding. The rest of the league apart from Rangers are on a lot smaller budgets than us, if we dont go on a run of wins early then I can see some of the players in the hibs side that were not up to the challenge last year crumbling again. The current hibs side, IMO, are weak mentally, they need a pick up as well.

Eyrie
20-08-2014, 09:35 PM
The club should have put the money up for 10k tickets for the manager to spend when he came in. That would have shown leadership and a sign to everyone that we were serious about challenging.

I'm sure we'd have got near 9k sales maybe more if they'd done that.

The money brought in from that could have paid them back the vast majority of that 10k they put in, and we'd probably beaten The Rangers and the gimps, and walk ups would increase on the top of that.

Aye its speculating to accumulate, but not with the risk of a Leeds or Portsmouth.

We always appear to need something of a help from STF at the end of the seasons to help us, why not give it at the start to help us that way, you never know we might not need any help after that?
If Farmer had provided the money up front to compensate for the errors of his "conduit*" then the most likely result would have been even fewer season ticket sales as fans took the view that the club already had money. A better idea would have been for Farmer to offer a further £100 for every season ticket sold which would provide an incentive for more sales.



They need to start listening though, if we dont get out of this league at the first attempt I fear many fans will have had enough. There will be no where to hide in this league, Hearts are not spending as much as they used to and like us had to do a lot of rebuilding. The rest of the league apart from Rangers are on a lot smaller budgets than us, if we dont go on a run of wins early then I can see some of the players in the hibs side that were not up to the challenge last year crumbling again. The current hibs side, IMO, are weak mentally, they need a pick up as well.

No argument with any of that.



*Can someone explain to me why "conduit" has three extra letters?

jacomo
21-08-2014, 10:22 AM
If Farmer had provided the money up front to compensate for the errors of his "conduit*" then the most likely result would have been even fewer season ticket sales as fans took the view that the club already had money. A better idea would have been for Farmer to offer a further £100 for every season ticket sold which would provide an incentive for more sales.




No argument with any of that.



*Can someone explain to me why "conduit" has three extra letters?

I suspect most Hibs fans aren't buying tickets to support the player budget, it's because they are hoping to be entertained. If we start winning regularly and playing good football, the crowds will go up.

silverhibee
21-08-2014, 12:33 PM
Not even a mention about trying to bring in new players.

http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hibs/alan-stubbs-sure-hibs-will-be-in-contention-1-3516365

Heedersnvolleys
21-08-2014, 12:59 PM
Not even a mention about trying to bring in new players.

http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hibs/alan-stubbs-sure-hibs-will-be-in-contention-1-3516365

That is been like that for a while but it occurred to me today as well when I read it that there is no mention of bringing in players. Maybe it's because I got a feeling from the artical that he seems happy with what he has or am I being parinoid? Was happy for my ST to stay the same too but only if another couple at least are brought in, not loans either!!!!

J-C
21-08-2014, 01:05 PM
Not even a mention about trying to bring in new players.

http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hibs/alan-stubbs-sure-hibs-will-be-in-contention-1-3516365

If no more come in, then I worry about this season, we could be down here for a good few years if we don't get the players in we need.

silverhibee
21-08-2014, 01:13 PM
If no more come in, then I worry about this season, we could be down here for a good few years if we don't get the players in we need.

Already picking up suspensions and injuries, we cannot rely on young kids to get us out of this league, need more players in.

ScottB
21-08-2014, 01:23 PM
we didnt have the money to pay for the stands, we borrowed it! Why cant we borrow money to fund a transfer of quality that will in turn help to fill the stands that we borrowed money to build?

Because the stands are a tangible asset that can be mortgaged. Players are not.

Can't see any bank offering us loan to blow on players, they just wouldn't do it. STF, if he could be convinced, is the only place we'd be able to source money for that sort of thing from.

SanFranHibs
21-08-2014, 01:32 PM
Not even a mention about trying to bring in new players.

http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hibs/alan-stubbs-sure-hibs-will-be-in-contention-1-3516365

I just started a thread titled Quality over Quantity - Where is it?

However, I thought, well just add to an exisitng thread that touches upon the same matter.


As the Griffiths threads have been put out of their misery (it was the humane thing to do), perhaps we could concentrate on the supposed quality we have been promised.

If LD wants fan input we should be asking it, 'Where is it?'


The above was going to be my opening, as with a rapidly closing tranfer window I am feeling apprehensive about the squad we have. Our fortunes still lie at the feet of such as Craig, Robertson, Harris and Hefferan and overall I think the squad is somewhat threadbare.

We know we don't have a huge amount of money to spend but if we are not willing to spend more than we have why promise quality?

LD, where's the quality?

:flag:

patch1875
21-08-2014, 01:39 PM
Still think we will get a couple more, maybe another Everton youngster.

Don't think we will a big signing though.

SanFranHibs
21-08-2014, 01:44 PM
Still think we will get a couple more, maybe another Everton youngster.

Don't think we will a big signing though.

That is my thinking also. Another loan, maybe two!

silverhibee
21-08-2014, 01:52 PM
That is my thinking also. Another loan, maybe two!

Pretty sure LD said she wasn't to keen on loanees, can't see her going for any more, some quality would be good though.

J-C
21-08-2014, 02:06 PM
Because the stands are a tangible asset that can be mortgaged. Players are not.

Can't see any bank offering us loan to blow on players, they just wouldn't do it. STF, if he could be convinced, is the only place we'd be able to source money for that sort of thing from.

Even though we had money, I'm sure business wise it's more benficial to borrow and pay back rather than buying outright as you can claim on the interest paid, most businesses do this, where did all the transfer money go if we borrowed to build a stand??

Eyrie
21-08-2014, 07:40 PM
Even though we had money, I'm sure business wise it's more benficial to borrow and pay back rather than buying outright as you can claim on the interest paid, most businesses do this, where did all the transfer money go if we borrowed to build a stand??
The tax relief on the interest is less than the actual interest paid, and that assumes that you're actually paying tax in the first place. Think one of our resident accountants told us that the club has big tax losses which means we're not paying any tax (but legitimately so rather than defrauding the taxman like Huns RIP or Hearts).