What's happened to the ST money.

[silverhibee]

Surely it hasn't all been spent yet, the club asked the fans to agree to keep ST prices at the same price so that they could rebuild the team, but so far we have brought in two loan players a goalie/coach and is it three players signed on contracts, seemingly the club have sold 7000 ST, now i don't no how much money that is brought in for the managers fund but there surely must be a fair whack left over, or am i missing something here, we were told all ST money would go towards getting new players in but has this been the case or are we about to go mental and get a few badly needed players in this week.

[3pm]

I hope it hasn't went to the new coaching recruitment drive (Stubbs, Doolan, Holden).

[DaveF]

It's a fair question SH and perhaps someone brighter than me can recall a list of those we have had to pay off, as I suspect a large chunk of it has gone on sorting out Petrie's excellent hiring and firing record.

[Pretty Boy]

I'm sure someone once said, maybe Hibs themselves, that we make about £200 per ST when averaged out to include all categories. 7000ish sold at £200 is about £1.4M.

Even if we allow that the managers fund must include wages for new players on top of fees paid we can't have spent that much, not even close. There must still be money available if all ST sales are going to the manager.

[Spike Mandela]

I hope it hasn't went to the new coaching recruitment drive (Stubbs, Doolan, Holden).

The top heavy coaching staff has to be paid for somehow. We only have one pot (cup:wink:) of money.

[Lucius Apuleius]

Wages for the rest of the season?

[BT58]

LD /RP has said that ALL st monies was to be used for new players only.
I could be wrong here but im sure we had only sold 5.5k sts when the last new player came in.
That means we should have at least 1.5 st cash left,,
Probably totally wrong though

[bawheid]

Are we not still paying to maintain messrs Butcher, Malpas and Marsella's gardens?

[ALF TUPPER]

AS has had players up on trial and sent them packing coz he didnt rate them.
I'd rather we did that than bring in guys who couldnt hack it after we sign them. We've been there before.

I've no doubt we'll bring players in before the end of the month. Keep the faith guys.

:aok:

[Spike Mandela]

LD /RP has said that ALL st monies was to be used for new players only.
I could be wrong here but im sure we had only sold 5.5k sts when the last new player came in.
That means we should have at least 1.5 st cash left,,
Probably totally wrong though

Was it specifically players or did they say all monies goes towards the team, or the playing side or some such thing?

[oneone73]

Are we not still paying to maintain messrs Butcher, Malpas and Marsella's gardens?

That's NOT what we were categorically promised the ST money. It was for the player budget. Unless we've been lied to again?

[bawheid]

I was just asking a question. I don't want implicated in the latest Hibs.net fact.

[BT58]

Was it specifically players or did they say all monies goes towards the team, or the playing side or some such thing?
Quote from HFC...
Buy a season ticket and your cash goes to manager to bring in new players
Thats been the message from the board for a few years now

[HFC 0-7]

AS has had players up on trial and sent them packing coz he didnt rate them.
I'd rather we did that than bring in guys who couldnt hack it after we sign them. We've been there before.

I've no doubt we'll bring players in before the end of the month. Keep the faith guys.

:aok:

Id rather we had a scouting system in place that weed out the players not good enough before letting them have a trial. We are threadbare, still missing players in key positions and it's showing. Hibs are never ready for the start of the season. If we do bring players in before the end of the month we better not hear the usual lines of 'the new players need time to gel'

[lord bunberry]

Surely it hasn't all been spent yet, the club asked the fans to agree to keep ST prices at the same price so that they could rebuild the team, but so far we have brought in two loan players a goalie/coach and is it three players signed on contracts, seemingly the club have sold 7000 ST, now i don't no how much money that is brought in for the managers fund but there surely must be a fair whack left over, or am i missing something here, we were told all ST money would go towards getting new players in but has this been the case or are we about to go mental and get a few badly needed players in this week.
I've been thinking the same for a while, we released 18 players and we've brought in 4. We must be paying out much less than we were last season on wages and we've told Nelson he can go as well. I will be disappointed if we don't bring in a few more signings before the window closes, if we don't I'll be expecting an explanation as to why we didn't. With the parachute payment we got and the fact that season ticket sales are similar to last year, relegation can't be used as an excuse.

[Forza Fred]

Id rather we had a scouting system in place that weed out the players not good enough before letting them have a trial. We are threadbare, still missing players in key positions and it's showing. Hibs are never ready for the start of the season. If we do bring players in before the end of the month we better not hear the usual lines of 'the new players need time to gel'

Totally agree.

While in his defence, Stubbs did come in late, we are supposed to be a leading PROFESsIONAL club!

The way we can't get a squad assembled weeks prior to the start of a season is nothing short of rank amateurism.

And we do it repeatedly.

[silverhibee]

Are we not still paying to maintain messrs Butcher, Malpas and Marsella's gardens?

I'm pretty sure we are, but when the rally call came from Leeann Dempster for folk to buy ST it was for the managers fund to bring players in, how many folk would have bought ST if we were told that the money was to go towards paying the three muskteers, plain and simple we were told all money would go on the squad, we have signed more backroom staff than we have players this season, now was it a slip of the tongue when Leeann Dempster said all this stuff or are we still not getting the full truth from folk running the club.

Still waiting for the QUALITY to come in.

[Keith_M]

Quality over Quantity, that was the mantra.


We've signed a couple of players that appear to be of reasonable Quality. The problem is that we need a damn sight more than that.

[DL1960]

Surely it hasn't all been spent yet, the club asked the fans to agree to keep ST prices at the same price so that they could rebuild the team, but so far we have brought in two loan players a goalie/coach and is it three players signed on contracts, seemingly the club have sold 7000 ST, now i don't no how much money that is brought in for the managers fund but there surely must be a fair whack left over, or am i missing something here, we were told all ST money would go towards getting new players in but has this been the case or are we about to go mental and get a few badly needed players in this week.

Anybody know happened to the £500k parachute payment received from the SPL to soften relegation.
Thats additional money that could have been put towards the playing side.

[Keith_M]

Anybody know happened to the £500k parachute payment received from the SPL to soften relegation.
Thats additional money that could have been put towards the playing side.


Well, either Rod Petrie, STF or both have once again bled us dry and pocketed the lot or...


...it simply has gone into the Bank Account waiting to be spent on things like Players, Coaches and Terry Butcher & Co.

[silverhibee]

I've been thinking the same for a while, we released 18 players and we've brought in 4. We must be paying out much less than we were last season on wages and we've told Nelson he can go as well. I will be disappointed if we don't bring in a few more signings before the window closes, if we don't I'll be expecting an explanation as to why we didn't. With the parachute payment we got and the fact that season ticket sales are similar to last year, relegation can't be used as an excuse.

And didn't a number of the younger players have there contracts ripped up and signed new ones on lesser wages as well, with all the cut backs that were made by letting 14 players go, possibly more than that, and with 7000 ST sold there has to be money in the pot to bring in a few more players, with Hanlon out for a few weeks do we go looking for a new CH or keep the we just told to leave the club, i would like to see a striker brought in but Stubbs may think he has enough in that department with big El Cummings Handling and the Heff.

I ask again, where has all the ST money gone.

[ancient hibee]

If we bring in new players the ST money will go on signing on fees and wages.Isn't that pretty obvious?

[lord bunberry]

And didn't a number of the younger players have there contracts ripped up and signed new ones on lesser wages as well, with all the cut backs that were made by letting 14 players go, possibly more than that, and with 7000 ST sold there has to be money in the pot to bring in a few more players, with Hanlon out for a few weeks do we go looking for a new CH or keep the we just told to leave the club, i would like to see a striker brought in but Stubbs may think he has enough in that department with big El Cummings Handling and the Heff.

I ask again, where has all the ST money gone.
I don't know where it's gone but I know where it hasn't and that's into the managers fund

[lord bunberry]

If we bring in new players the ST money will go on signing on fees and wages.Isn't that pretty obvious?

We sign players every year, why would it effect our budget so badly this year. We're paying 10 less wages than we were last season with a similar sized season ticket pot.

[silverhibee]

Anybody know happened to the £500k parachute payment received from the SPL to soften relegation.
Thats additional money that could have been put towards the playing side.


The £500k will be paying the landscape gardeners.

[southern hibby]

There's some very very good questions now being asked. Problem I see is were asking one another not the board.

I for one was not going to get a season ticket this year because I was sick and tired of the same old ( supposedly ) football on offer. I was promised quality over quantity which 3 players have come I'n and numerous left. I again renewed my season ticket.

However if I find my money has been used to pay off Butcher et all and not used for players then I see it as a complete and utter lie. I would always support Hibs but I wouldn't believe anything our new female I'n charge said again. GGTTH

[Caversham Green]

I think the idea that all ST money goes towards new players is a misinterpretation of what the club has actually said. The club consistently says that all ST money goes towards the playing budget, so it will currently be in the bank to pay for wages for the rest of the season as Lucy Apples has said. Now that ST sales are pretty much done they will be able to assess whether they can bring any new players in and what sort of additional wages (if any) they can offer.

If, as expected,we made serious losses last year the reduced wages bill is more likely to contribute to reducing losses for the current season rather than bringing new players in.

[Keith_M]

If, as expected,we made serious losses last year the reduced wages bill is more likely to contribute to reducing losses for the current season rather than bringing new players in.


Which can be described as 'ever decreasing circles'.

[lord bunberry]

I think the idea that all ST money goes towards new players is a misinterpretation of what the club has actually said. The club consistently says that all ST money goes towards the playing budget, so it will currently be in the bank to pay for wages for the rest of the season as Lucy Apples has said. Now that ST sales are pretty much done they will be able to assess whether they can bring any new players in and what sort of additional wages (if any) they can offer.

If, as expected,we made serious losses last year the reduced wages bill is more likely to contribute to reducing losses for the current season rather than bringing new players in.

You may well be right but that's not what's being implied when the renewal forms are being sent out. The implication is that by buying a season ticket we are funding future signings, if what you say is correct then that would explain why we never make many early signings.

[Pretty Boy]

There's some very very good questions now being asked. Problem I see is were asking one another not the board.

I for one was not going to get a season ticket this year because I was sick and tired of the same old ( supposedly ) football on offer. I was promised quality over quantity which 3 players have come I'n and numerous left. I again renewed my season ticket.

However if I find my money has been used to pay off Butcher et all and not used for players then I see it as a complete and utter lie. I would always support Hibs but I wouldn't believe anything our new female I'n charge said again. GGTTH

Hibs could always use the account they have on here to answer such questions......

[silverhibee]

Hibs could always use the account they have on here to answer such questions......

:agree:

Best way to communicate with a large % of the fans too.

[ancienthibby]

I think the idea that all ST money goes towards new players is a misinterpretation of what the club has actually said. The club consistently says that all ST money goes towards the playing budget, so it will currently be in the bank to pay for wages for the rest of the season as Lucy Apples has said. Now that ST sales are pretty much done they will be able to assess whether they can bring any new players in and what sort of additional wages (if any) they can offer.

If, as expected,we made serious losses last year the reduced wages bill is more likely to contribute to reducing losses for the current season rather than bringing new players in.

Cav,

My understanding is that the advanced revenue from ST sales is the building foundation of meeting costs for the next 12 months. It is normally the largest percentage of all revenue in any fiscal year. Things like TV revenue, walk-up sales, shop sales, prize money etc are key add-ons which will help keep Hibs in the black, or if not good enough, the red.

So I assume the FD is doing his job and managing the forward cash flow and ST sales will be apportioned to each month's expenses in the full knowledge that caution has to be exercised in the light of the other revenue lines being at least volatile.

[Caversham Green]

You may well be right but that's not what's being implied when the renewal forms are being sent out. The implication is that by buying a season ticket we are funding future signings, if what you say is correct then that would explain why we never make many early signings.

That's marketing for you -trust accountants before salesmen.

I think it's a marginal income approach - there's a core support of around 5,500 who will always renew and don't generally bother reading the bumf. Anything over that will add to the squad so the more that buy the better the squad will be. Sadly, I'm in the Reading core now - they say I 'belong' but I don't really.


Cav,

My understanding is that the advanced revenue from ST sales is the building foundation of meeting costs for the next 12 months. It is normally the largest percentage of all revenue in any fiscal year. Things like TV revenue, walk-up sales, shop sales, prize money etc are key add-ons which will help keep Hibs in the black, or if not good enough, the red.

So I assume the FD is doing his job and managing the forward cash flow and ST sales will be apportioned to each month's expenses in the full knowledge that caution has to be exercised in the light of the other revenue lines being at least volatile.

I don't think the allocation of ST revenue to playing budget is particularly impressive, but a section of the Hibs support seems to need reminding of the fact. 10,000 STs probably brings in a net of around £2m and I'm sure last year's playing budget was well over that so income from other sources - walk-ups, TV etc - must leak over to the playing budget as well. 7,000 STs will produce about £1.4m so that's our base playing budget. Whether we can bring in more players on that remains to be seen. I think for once we've bought quite well though.

[ancient hibee]

Staff costs in the 2013 accounts were £3.8M.Where is that going to come from if not from ticket sales.

[bigwheel]

Remember the days when fans only talked about fitba....I want them back ....

[Caversham Green]

Remember the days when fans only talked about fitba....I want them back ....

You mean you don't find accountancy exciting?!

What's wrong with you man?

[bigwheel]

You mean you don't find accountancy exciting?!

What's wrong with you man?

Hehe. I know, This P&L management lark should be stimulating , but I still seem to prefer the actual game :-)

[NAE NOOKIE]

Staff costs in the 2013 accounts were £3.8M.Where is that going to come from if not from ticket sales.

The crowd at Ibrox was about 20,000. If we got half the takings say at £10 a head that's about £100,000

The Livvi crowd was about 9,300. That's 2,000 over ST holders .. at £10 a head £20,000 . If we manage that in 20 home games that's £400,000.

We will get income for at least 4 TV games at ER this season when the Zombies and Yams come calling. No idea how much though

If the Zomies and Yams sell all their tickets for ER that's about 15,000 at say £20 a head = £225,000

To keep money coming in we need to attract walk ups big time ( losing derby matches aint gonna help that ) and do well in both cup competitions.

Looking at that we are gonna make a loss.

[Jack]

And didn't a number of the younger players have there contracts ripped up and signed new ones on lesser wages as well, with all the cut backs that were made by letting 14 players go, possibly more than that, and with 7000 ST sold there has to be money in the pot to bring in a few more players, with Hanlon out for a few weeks do we go looking for a new CH or keep the we just told to leave the club, i would like to see a striker brought in but Stubbs may think he has enough in that department with big El Cummings Handling and the Heff.

I ask again, where has all the ST money gone.

About the youngsters.

The younger players original contracts had a bit in them that if we were relegated their money was halved.

I think 5 of these youngsters now have new contracts and at least one more than doubled his money with the new contract and is absolutely delighted with it.

[Forza Fred]

I know it is only 3 games into the season, and had we won two of them, then things would be definitely quieter.

However, what for the life of me I can't understand is that despite it being blatantly obvious to all and sundry that we needed NEW players, for a LONG time, we have not been as active in the transfer market, as I think everybody expected.

Coupled with this is the number of posts, that now suggest the Hibs board have decided not to push the boat out financially THIS season, to get promotion, preferring to wait until Rangers and Hearts get promoted, with presumably next season being seen as 'easier'..and presumably less costly.

Now, I'm not trying to advance any conspiracy theories, but if the solution is get more players in, and we don't do so, then they will abound soon.

Exactly what IS our current financial position,?

[southsider]

Up creek without a paddle.

[Pretty Boy]

It's hard to say with any accuracy until the accounts come out.

However the elastoplast approach when major surgery was required suggests the situations isn't too clever.

The clubs number 1 priority this season should have been the 1st team playing squad and it quite simply hasn't been.

[Booked4Being-Ugly]

I really don't think we've got much money left after paying for our top-heavy board, top-heavy backroom staff, Terry Butchers mgt team and East Mains!

[Forza Fred]

Could it be so dire, that the board think there is little point in buying new players that might win us the league, as a 15 point deduction will mean it has been money spent in vain, if they do spend up.

[Tyler Durden]

Could it be so dire, that the board think there is little point in buying new players that might win us the league, as a 15 point deduction will mean it has been money spent in vain, if they do spend up.

In a word, no.

[Keith_M]

Could it be so dire, that the board think there is little point in buying new players that might win us the league, as a 15 point deduction will mean it has been money spent in vain, if they do spend up.


I've made a number of whingeing posts about our sitution but even I think you're taking that too far.


:wink:

[southsider]

I really don't think we've got much money left after paying for our top-heavy board, top-heavy backroom staff, Terry Butchers mgt team and East Mains!
We are, i believe, £10 mill in debt to the bank alone. Plus loans the club received from Farmer. The situation is not clever and there is NO money for new players and we have very little chance of going up. And some folks still think Petrie is doing a good Job ?

[big gogs]

I would assume that if a move to take over the club was in motion, the last thing would be adding to the price of the sale.the seller would not part with the money for players,and the buyers would not pay more.it would be done after the sale was completed by the new owners.regarding that the deal would need to be completed by the end of the transfer window this weekend,that looks a long shot at this time.unless someone out there knows otherwise

[Forza Fred]

I've made a number of whingeing posts about our sitution but even I think you're taking that too far.


:wink:

I do hope so, sincerely, but when the answer to our woes is....spend on a few players.......and we don't....then I do have my dark moments.

I'd hate to think that things are only going to get worse this season, and we basically are stuck in mid table of the championship for a few years.

[Hibby Kay-Yay]

Why not just splash the cash that we don't have? As long as we get 16points more than the team that finishes 2nd we'll be alright.

[Forza Fred]

Why not just splash the cash that we don't have? As long as we get 16points more than the team that finishes 2nd we'll be alright.

How much cash do we actually have......and. Is the season ticket money all gone?

[Hibby Kay-Yay]

How much cash do we actually have......and. Is the season ticket money all gone?

The lack of cash never stopped Rangers or Hearts...that's the point!

[Tyler Durden]

We are, i believe, £10 mill in debt to the bank alone. Plus loans the club received from Farmer. The situation is not clever and there is NO money for new players and we have very little chance of going up. And some folks still think Petrie is doing a good Job ?

I would suggest you're about £3m too high there.

My take on this summers shambles is that the club have set a budget as usual. Clearly that's a reduced budget to account for reduced revenue being in the Championship. The budget will have a % threshold for player costs which we can't breach. Nothing new here clearly.

However this year we have been unable to move Heffernan, Nelson, Craig, Robertson, OTJ. They are now proportionately higher net impact on the budget and contribute very very little onfield. On a weekly basis that must be c£12k there? Plus the salaries still goin to Butcher and Malpas.

An unworkable legacy if ever there was one. Short term we either need to get these guys performing. Or Farmer provides funding to move these no hopers on and let Stubbs replace them.

[Forza Fred]

I would suggest you're about £3m too high there.

My take on this summers shambles is that the club have set a budget as usual. Clearly that's a reduced budget to account for reduced revenue being in the Championship. The budget will have a % threshold for player costs which we can't breach. Nothing new here clearly.

However this year we have been unable to move Heffernan, Nelson, Craig, Robertson, OTJ. They are now proportionately higher net impact on the budget and contribute very very little onfield. On a weekly basis that must be c£12k there? Plus the salaries still goin to Butcher and Malpas.

An unworkable legacy if ever there was one. Short term we either need to get these guys performing. Or Farmer provides funding to move these no hopers on and let Stubbs replace them.

Generally speaking, when businesses are struggling financially, the first cuts are 'back room' staff.

We appear to have increased them though.

While there is an argument that long term they will benefit the club, our problem surely is more of a pressing need to get back into the top division.

I really do wonder if we know what we are doing.

[Col2]

The figures don't stack up.

We have let go 16 players and signed 3 permanent replacements. I appreciate some of the 16 were on fringes but McGivern, Williams, Thomson, Cairney, tawo and Collins would NOT have been on buttons.

Assuming our budget has been cut to accommodate championship football then it must have been cut by c50% even taking account of previous manager disaster costs.

I am firmly on the belief that Stubbs and Dempster budget has been significantly reduced in recent days eg goal post shifted. If not why would stubbs recruit some a large backroom team when he would surely have looked at wider picture and made changes on a more gradual basis.

Something stinks. Assume Leanne is 100% in charge then its maybe something she can explain. Hopefully the goal posts haven't shifted for her as well.

[Col2]

Oh and with 8 days to go until transfer deadline - TICK TOCK

[MM19]

I thought that it was in the players contracts that if we got relegated they took a cut in their wages. Even if we are still paying Butcher surely it would apply to him and the rest of his team.

Most of the money owed is for the mortgages about 7m. The season ticket money was supposed to be for players not the back room staff.

[Sas_The_Hibby]

Och it's not all doom and gloom.

At least we still get to pay SPL prices for match tickets......

[mcfly]

Butcher cleared a load of players at end of last season.

Possibly some were high earners, we have signed 4 players so at a guess I'd say our wage bill must be vastly reduced.

We are still charging top whack for season tickets so where is the money???

New players who are will not only winners but who are willing to dig deep for our club are needed.

At the moment I'm totally disillusioned with hibs. Has the Petrie out campaign just fizzled out? I've heard nothing for weeks.

Out club is weak on the pitch and we've just continured where we left last season losing. I keep reading about being patient!! Why?? Ive been a patient ST holder for years and years and nothing ever changes.

This transfer window is huge for the future of our club and attendances.

[Hermit Crab]

Can you not tell the club are not interested in spending money as they've settled for at least 2 seasons in this division. If they cared they'd have spent far more to bring in quality players to get us out the league first time.

[danhibees1875]

Are we not still paying to maintain messrs Butcher, Malpas and Marsella's gardens?

I don't understand why these guys are getting paid for nothing? Surely we can use them somewhere?

Put them in pods outside selling tickets (I heard from a Livi fan that some fans turned around and left before the game due to ques). If they don't like it then they can resign.

[green day]

I heard from a Livi fan that some fans turned around and left before the game due to ques

Ha ha ha !

That's brightened up my day. Travel 20 miles, go for a beer, a wee queue at a pod and they go home to McaRthur Glen?

Loadypish as Grumpy Gibby would have said.

[Danderhall Hibs]

I don't understand why these guys are getting paid for nothing? Surely we can use them somewhere?

Put them in pods outside selling tickets (I heard from a Livi fan that some fans turned around and left before the game due to ques). If they don't like it then they can resign.
That'd be constructive dismissal I think?

[danhibees1875]

That'd be constructive dismissal I think?
I would have thought it might have to be harsher than that to be classed as such. Surely something we can get him to do though? There must be a way he can add value since we're paying him.

[Danderhall Hibs]

I would have thought it might have to be harsher than that to be classed as such. Surely something we can get him to do though? There must be a way he can add value since we're paying him.

Harsher than getting someone employed as a football manager to sell tickets?

What have you got in mind. :hilarious